Gundam failed to really take hold in the West sadly. It's mostly a Japanese only series.
What went wrong?
First off, Gundam's popular throughout South East Asia, so it's not just a mostly Japanese series.
Second, it's because Bandai fucked up the US distribution and once you start distributing shit to the US, the massive reach of American corporate structures renders distributing it to other markets difficult. So once America turned away from Gundam, the rest of the world outside of SE Asia was fucked.
Wing was successful. In fact, more so than in Japan. Likely because for the West it was fresh and new, while at the same time being the perfect show for teens.
Skip MSG entirely due to its antiquated animation. I'm fine with it, since i like 70's and 80's animation. Skp Z and ZZ too since they need MSG to make sense.
Then they should have aired the well animated OVAs and films.
Then keep going with all the new Gundam shows out. Air Gundam X and then continue onwards from there.
They didn't bust ass to push a gundam series that is in the same vein of the then popular wing series and create something for both japan and the american audience.
They instead tried to push both MSG and SD. The former did really badly during it's own time and has animation and anime story tropes that are a product of their time.
SD was a childrens show that was put on in the place of wing or something like wing or x or some other gritty 90s action with teen/young adult pilots blowing shit up.
That's basically it. They simply dropped the ball, because they honestly don't know how to sell or what would sell it in a market that isn't completely sotted with 30+ years of gundam and giant mech love.
I'm not typing this up again, here's a related pasta from about a year back:
>I'm sick and tired of hearing complaints from people who have no idea about the history behind the franchise continue to project their ideas of what Gundam "should be" down others throats. Here's a wake up call: Gundam is NOT Mechwarrior. Gundam is NOT Battletech. Gundam is NOT Gears of War.
>Gundam by design embodies a lot of angst felt in a country that LOST WWII. That's why the majority of its protagonists whine, fight defensively or have philosophical discussions about war. If you're looking for a show about dirty, middle-aged grunts charging heroically into battle shouting "MURRICA F**K YEAH!" (or the equivalent), you are going to be disappointed. And "newtype magic", as many people complain about, is a much a part of Gundam as the Force is to Star Wars.
I said there wasn't enough.
I didn't say there wasn't any.
-SD and MSG threw off the fanbase. I remember when SD first aired, I just stopped watching.
-There was a lack of understanding how to market to the West.
-after the end of Toonami it was difficult for a show like Gundam to be aired on afternoon television.
-American kids don't like Gundpla
Whoever thought that airing Gundam on Scifi was a smart idea is idiot.
Really, the last chance gundam had to be popular in the west was 00, consequently it was very very popular in japan as well. But..the second season happened.
They actually did try again with seed later, but...it never caught on. I mean it was simply not popular at all.
Gundam Wing - Toonami
G Gundam - Toonami
MSG - Toonami
SEED - Toonami Saturdays
SEED Destiny - Toonami Saturdays
Gundam 00 (S1 & S2) - SciFi's Saturday Anime Block
08th MS Team - Toonami After Dark / Adult Swim
0080 - Toonami After Dark / Adult Swim
0083 - Toonami After Dark / Adult Swim
Endless Waltz - Toonami (Movie Ver) / Toonami After Dark / Adult Swim (OVA Ver)
SD Gundam Force - Cartoon Network (early morning block on Saturdays)
Fine. It shitbombed in NA because they don't know how to sell gundam to an audience that does not give a fuck about gundam.
Even worse, the gundam series that proved to be OBSCENELY popular? Didn't follow up on it with something very similar or make an ova or series that mimiced what was popular but not in a derivative way.
G Gundam was good and should have aired before or after DBZ(maybe it did, I dunno) but it needed another wing or something like it to keep if going.
The thing about the UC is that most of them (except probably ones like Victory/F-91) hinge on the fact that the audience has some idea of what happened during MSG. You can't really skip it unless you want to skip the entire UC as well.
I think if they do Origin right they might be able to introduce UC to the West.
I'm...I'm fucking sorry. But most people who watch gundam outside of japan have never seen more then five episodes of MSG and trying to force people to watch the entire run of MSG as a way to get them acclimated too or want to watch gundam is patently retarded.
As a matter of fact, if they showed MSG instead of Wing on toonami gundam would have never gotten the small amount of recognition it has now.
I know this is copy and paste, but I can't help but agree and wonder why people want Gundam to be something like Mechwarrior or Battletech instead of just watching/reading that instead.
I think Sunrise should've expanded their base in the US back in the 80's. Not just with Gundam(or not even), but also distributing some of their other works that might have potential overseas appeal.
...Except he didn't mention Tomino's depression. He mentioned the views that the original Gundam espoused, and given how Tomino grew up at the end of WWII and through the post-war period, I'd say it's not impossible that he would cultivate those views.
Toonami going weekly coincided with high speed internet hitting saturation nationwide. Basically, everyone could just start downloading instead of waiting years for a dub to be aired on tv once a week.
If you really think about it most anime series/shows haven't taken hold in the west apart from highschool dramas and shonen stuff. That just shows our shit taste more than anything.
couple that with the fact that:
-UC doesn't make sense without MSG
-MSG's dated animation means most people will (wrongly) never give it a chance.
Expecting Gundam to be here what it is in Asia is a pipe dream. The best Bandai/Toonami/whoever the fuck can do is market MSG/Gundam as "the one that started it all" and hope that viewers take the bait.
I'm pretty sure the west didn't need MSG. Or even UC at all.
We ate up Dragonball Z just fine without needing Dragonball for quite a few years into it's run.
But since the Japanese market thrives on UCfag nostalgia that's all they know how to market to.
Japan didn't see the need to market outside of Japan until after the bubble economy burst. Sunrise and Bandai didn't take advantage of the momentum in the late seventies and 80s to market it here. Had they rode the wave of Transformers, Robotech, Voltron, Orbots, etc, they could have had Universal Century easily become popular and relevant then.
Well, You haven't take into account a fundamental reason why MSG was a great success in Japan and as>>12204553 said, it's popular throughout South East Asia.
MSG's success was greatly related to the Super Robot Era in the 70's which was commonly shared by people in SE Asia and Japan. As a Hong Konger born in the 70's kids of my generation watched Super Robot shows along with Toku and all kinds of anime since we were kindergarten-er. We also watched many western cartoon and TV shows and also don't forget it was the 70's and 80's when TV dominated the entertainment and culture. Among all kid's show Super Robot anime was always the top favorite for the kids of that generation (the reason is another story). Everyone loved Super Robot. Since Mazinger Z new Super Robot kept coming and coming and dominated the anime genre for almost ten years.
So what happened next? We grew up a bit and became teens and the weakness of Super Robot show emerged. It's too repetitive and childish and became old fashioned. Then suddenly BIG BANG. Here came the Gundam. They fed us Chuuni teens with a "mature" and "real" "sci-fi" "war drama" with fucking giant robot. Not to mention the show is actually good. How could it not success?
Now you know what went wrong? There was no such background for Gundam to become a groundbreaking show in the west like it did in Japan and SE Asia.
You completely missed the point. You can't appreciate a lot of UC without MSG. Yes, there's G, there's Wing, there's 00, there's SEED, there're a whole bunch of series. But when we're talking about UC, a whole bunch of it relies on the fact that the viewer has watched MSG and at the very least knows the story. Try watching Char's Counterattack without knowing anything else. You'd be utterly lost.
Skipping MSG means skipping the bulk of the franchise, and this is why Gundam isn't as popular in the West.
Gundam Wing was fucking HUGE. I remember high school people talking about Gundam Wing, GIRLS talking about GW and girls buying the Gunpla.
It was the only time I felt Gundam was not my secret little club anymore. It felt like one of those 90s fads that got superhot , then faded away, like when everyone was listening to Chant music for a while in the 90s,
>SEED Destiny - Toonami Saturdays
I honestly don't remember destiny airing on Toonami Saturdays, and I can't find any bumpers for it on youtube. I'm pretty sure Destiny only aired in Canada.
>SEED Destiny - Toonami Saturdays
Destiny aired only on YTV. SEED was canned before the end of its run on Toonami and then moved to a Saturday morning deathslot two years later where it was canned yet again for dot Hack Roots.
MSG is dated and unwatchable for modern youth, which pretty much fucks most of the chance of the UC franchise being enjoyed or understood.
AU series were met with mediocre success. Because that's what they are; a bunch of mediocrities, like most anime in general. Unfortunately once you're no longer a teenager you look back and realize that they were garbage.
Let's be real, most anime in general suffers from autistic, cringeworthy writing. Also giant robots are a niche aesthetic here and have not been as pervasive in the culture. Stuff like Naruto and Dragonball are more accessible. Even then only DBZ was successful enough for a time to pump out one horrendous joke of a live action movie.
We all wear goggles just to tolerate the shit here. Either that or we are genuine autists with shit taste that can't understand why X or Y piece of shit isn't appreciated by the unwashed masses. Chances are if what you're watching can't be appreciated by a relatively intelligent person that doesn't have a history of watching anime, you have the goggles on and it's actually a weird piece of shit.
We had that background in the US. But we got Macross almost immediately, probably because Tatsunoko was willing to cut a better deal for an IP that wasn't really theirs and they didn't really give a shit about than Sunrise was for something that had just placed them on top of the industry.
As for making Gundam work here? Ideally X after Wing, but at a baseline less channel-stuffing of G and First toys based solely on Wing's success. Ever since Wing there's always been a huge latent population of people who are light Gundam fans, but having it completely out of the public eye for a decade between TRU's fire sale of Gunpla stock and Bluefin's deal with B&N was a huge setback.
so, when is toon disney going to pick up Gundam Build Fighters and bring a golden age of gunpla available at supermarkets?
But they DID eventually make Doozy Bots
Typical gaijin mentality.
You know what has cringe worthy writing, Breaking Bad and all that other shit on your american tv that people watch. Of course original U.C. Gundam doesn't appeal to mainstream normalfags. So of course it won't be popular in the West. Obviously the unwashed masses can't appreciate weird things, especially trippy psychedelic sci-fi. It's part of their brain-washed conditioning.
Even among anime fans in the west. They watch all that Durrara SAO Bleach bullshit; but Gundam is suddenly "too hard to get into".
Wing was too popular to air anything after it that didn't have the Wing characters. Nothing was going to be that popular. They needed to either go X to try and keep the franchise afloat, make a Wing sequel or animate G-Unit. Everything else had a different tone and different suits. You don't give people batman Gundam and then go back to the basics of 0079. That's too much whiplash.
first on Toonami then later Adult Swim
>08th MS Team - Toonami After Dark / Adult Swim
was never on AS , started off on the Midnight Run at the same time MSG premiered and then later week days
>0080 - Toonami After Dark / Adult Swim
was never on AS , Midnight run around the same time AS started airing on Thurs and Sun
>0083 - Toonami After Dark / Adult Swim
Shit like SAO will disappear with just as much of a pathetic murmur as all the AU Gundam stuff that had its day in the sun over here.
My point is that you can't show any of those shows to true normalfags (people with no background in anime) because those shows are all still rife with the same shit that makes like 95% of anime unwatchable to people that aren't either calloused to it or have some kind of ASD-level taste. So when you say "Why didn't it catch on in the West" are you asking why not people in general, or why not with the shitbird niche anime community that we have who will actually swallow whatever drivel comes out of glorious Nippon?
I mean you can't show Attack on Titan to any average person past the first episode or so, and everybody has been sucking that show's dick like it's not just a gorier version of the same old shounen bullshit.
I think that it's us, the anime fans, who have been brainwashed into accepting sub-par story-telling and dialogue under the guise of sweet cartoon action, waifus, and all the sad shit that encapsulates this fandom.
Watch the movie "Edge of Tomorrow" and then read the manga it's based on. The former is clearly enjoyable by everybody on the planet because of how solid it is, while the latter was clearly made for autistic pillow-fucking NEETs, and the difference is clear.
MSG is probably vital to Zeta and Double Zeta. But only moderately needed for 080, 083 and F91.
All you'd need is to just add a little text explaining a bit of the backstory. Most of it isn't complicated. You don't need to know anything about Amuro.
>The thing about the UC is that most of them (except probably ones like Victory/F-91) hinge on the fact that the audience has some idea of what happened during MSG.
Not at all. 0080 barely mentioned the White Base, 0083 only shows bits and pieces of the OYW, just enough for the viewer to get an idea of what's going on in the present, and 08th MS Team is so unrelated to MSG that the most we get of the OYW at large is a small mention of Operation Star One.
I'm saying 1999 would have been the perfect year to remake MSG. Update the animation. Then you could sell it to a Western audience. Trying to show MSG to the American audience with its dated 1979 animation is suicidal.
Char's Counter Attack, Zeta, Double Zeta are all sequels to MSG, so yeah you need that.
The other UC shows though? Not so much. They barely need it.
Yep. It seems they just got utterly lucky with Wing. There was no planning to it. Just right time right place. Wing is the perfect Gundam show for teenagers in both the West and East. Stop trying to pretend that Gundam needed to massively change to appeal to Americans. It was already happening.
But then they had no idea how to follow up on Wing. Which showed they had no real strategy, and just got lucky with Wing.
You're absolutely right. I was a Wing babby myself at the tender age of 13 or so. When I first saw UC material (it was Rise From the Ashes for DC, who knows why the fuck they released that when they did) I thought it was boring as shit. Why weren't all the good guys Gundams? Where was all the boosting around and s1ck melee beam weaponry? I was confused.
I had literally no interest in UC until I saw 08th MS Team, 0083 and 0080. That gave me the motivation to start exploring retro shit that I otherwise would never have been able to stomach. Now as an old man I can't deal with any of that AU boyband garbage and wish desperately and faggishly for a show or game about grunt suits clunkily battling each other in some kind of postmodern grimdark environment.
I don't think you guys understand. The west doesn't need MSG. Bandai/sunrise needs the west to consume 30+ years of MSG ubiquity so they can just dump the MSG worshipping anime and toys here and get the same kind of success.
This is why Gundam will never grow outside of Japan and the wing and mech/transformers geeks are the only one's keeping the even partially relevant.
They don't fucking know how to sell their own goddamned series and fuck it up at every turn. Even worse they try to shoe horn in MSG at every opportunity while not knowing that no one gives a fuck save for people who grew up with MSG in the first place.
It was fucking easy.
Wing, OVAs, till they figured out what was popular then put out either X or another 90's era super serial gundam mech show starring teens.
Kind of off-topic but I didn't want to make a whole thread for my stupid question:
If I've watched the compilation movies and read the novel, am I missing out on anything by not watching the original 0079 series or can I move on to Zeta?
the novel is way different from the series and the compilation movies don't flesh-out the series as much.But it is good enough to understand Zeta.
If you want you can check out 0083 it's an OVA of 13 eps it fills in the gaps a bit between 0079 and 0087
They could remake the series like a modern anime. It'd piss off a lot of fans, but as long as they don't make unnecessary retcons but just rework the autism they'd gain a lot of new ones. Gundam: XG and Zeta Gundam: The Feddies Strike Back could be 50 episodes series, while ZZ could be a series of OVAs that ties in better to CCA.
They better hurry up. Most of the VAs are still alive, but a gundam remake without Chieko or Suzuoki is already sad as fuck.
Yes, you'll be fine.
I tried watching Zeta without watching MSG maybe 8 years ago. Constant "who the hell is that?" by me. Then I saw the compilation films a few months ago and now I'm re-watching Zeta and everything makes sense.
haha, Is 0083 really that bad? I haven't watched it in a few years but the only complaint I can remember was the forced romance. otherwise I can't think of any other reasons not to watch it. If this guy is trying to get into the gundam universe he might as well get over it. I would think SEED was episode 3 tier bad
it's not that bad, but it explains how stuff comes to be instead of just dropping you in the middle of the situation like the original work intended.
Just as Star Wars is supposed to be HOLY FUCK GIANT BLACK ROBOT GUY KILLING EVERYTHING you're supposed to be similarly shocked and surprised at how things are different in Zeta
>from what I'm told Japan dislikes G-Gundam.
Take into consideration it was the first non-UC series. It was an entirely different beast, which caused a shitstorm and was considered the end of Gundam back then.
The Japanese are okay with G now, but that's largely in part to Sunrise taking Gundam back to the original mech show formula.
You could see Gundam Wing's mirrors to 0079 as Sunrise's way of apology, showing they didn't forget the series's roots.
I think one of Bandai/Sunrise's (whoever distributes/licenses gundam) biggest mistakes now is not getting into streaming media. Streaming is where it's at now for US anime fans, and for good reason. It's easily accessible through devices (computers, consoles, smart tvs). Netflix, Crunchyroll, and Hulu are huge for legal distribution of anime. Fansubbing may have died, but good riddance. More people than ever are watching currently airing shows and rewatching old favorites through legal means, which the shekelers back in Japan see (and they use this data to figure out licensing fees).
Gundam is a household name for US anime fans because of the success of wing. Casual fans simply don't know how vast the franchise is because if you want to watch gundam nowadays, you pretty much have 3 options: A. Download torrents. B. Buy the Dvds C watch it on a shitty fansub hosting stream site. None of these options are things somebody not very interested in gundam would think about. But if Gundam shows start being promoted on Netflix? You bet people will check those out.
I think it really comes down to Sunrise overvaluing their product in terms of the NA market. This shit will never be as big here as it is in Asia. But you bet your ass it isn't getting any more popular when there are very few new people coming into the fandom. G reco wasn't even simulcasted in the US. And you pretty much have to stumble upon the Gundam Info channel to realize it is the legal place to watch gundam streams. I bet if you threw Wing, G, 00, and SEED up on Netflix or Hulu you would see a definite increase in Gundam's popularity--which could increase localized DVD/BD sales as well as gunpla sales. But Japanese suits are so out of touch with our markets that I have little hope of gundam ever growing out of the niche that it now is.
>implying I watch "mainstream" seasonal shit
>implying fansubbers have ever cared about unlicensed older works
All that happened with the "death" of fansubbing is that CONTEMPORARY shows have moved from being fan subbed to being officially distributed. Fansubbers care about epeen (just look at the cringe-worthy arguments groups have nowadays with each other as if they are even relevant), and you don't get a lot of epeen from subbing shows from the 70s no one will watch. The people that care about obscure unlicensed shows are still doing their thing. But don't delude yourself that CR changed anything about the translation of old shows.
>Fansubbing may have died, but good riddance
It didn't die.
It was strangled to death by a cabal of dubbers and subbers and a few others.
This had the unintended(but beyond obvious) side effect of helping to destroy the anime and manga market in the west.
Small subbers won't sub anymore and they won't sub the smaller anime that no one has ever heard of and help grow the industry and keep it relevant.
With the popularity of social media and streaming and the unfortunateness of the MU thing this was a death blow to the industry as a whole.
Funi and crunchy and that one faggot who pushed everyone to mkv and the rest got their domination of the industry. But this came at the cost of the industry shitting the bed in terms of profitability and penetration in the mainstream.
As for netflix. It's a bit of an empty suit. Youtube is free and all of the anime can be found there and you won't end up getting your bandwidth raped.
These people all did amazing fucking jobs fansubbing not just the bestest of the best most popular stuff but smaller less known stuff AND the stuff from the 70's and the like.
With fansubbing becoming both thankless and dangerous from a legal standpoint they pretty much dumped it.
And with that the casual appeal and word of mouth that was vital to selling it and judging a series as popular dissapeared.
It pretty much heralded the end of anime geekery as being a thing in the west.
Hell it even affected video games.
I tend to think Gundam is only really good if you've watched MS, and as someone else said you're going to have to jump to get it. Rarely can it drop on your desk. Wing and the UC side stories that came over stuck with me.
>All this delusion
More anime than ever before is getting subbed and released in a very timely fashion. Anime cons continue to break attendance records year after year. Tons of classic anime are getting re-released on DVD and BD. And there are no shortage of high quality manga series being released that you wouldn't have dreamed of in the past. The vast majority of the anime fandom is on board with this. This is an excellent era to be an anime fan. I'm not sure how the decline of anime piracy and the rise of legal digital distribution is a "death blow" to the industry. It's time to take off the nostalgia goggles.
This whole discussion has been tangential to my original point. To appeal to more casual anime fans in the US, Sunrise should realize Gundam isn't the golden egg over here that it is across the Pacific and embrace streaming media.
It's not about "old" shit, it's about non super-popular shit.
When an official sequel to Patlabor doesn't get translated because it's live action you know there's something wrong with the fanbase.
Also few years ago we wouldn't have got something like Hyouge Mono.
Just a couple years ago MSG, 00 and a few more were official and free on youtube. It didn't make any waves. Not to say streaming would be bad, but the market for older gundam isn't around. Few people want to watch a 70's/80's show in entirety. Modern gundam is also a bit light on testosterone that is mainstream in the action and scifi genres since the 80's.
Considering how much a hit the manga is sales-wise, they should have animated ALL of The Origin as a 52-episode TV SERIES (in chronological order starting from the past arc for the buildup), with flashy and bombastic 2D animation, and fast tracked a dub for Netflix and/or Toonami or whatever. It's the ultimate version of the 0079 story, and it would have attracted/created shitloads of new Gundam fans, but noooo, they had to play it safe and not take a risk on guaranteed money.
As much as I really like the manga myself I disagree about that whole TV adaptation idea. The OVA's enough for that anyways. I also don't believe it's the "ultimate" of the story either, but just simply a pretty good take on it like the Tomino novels.
I Sunrise should not just focus on Gundam, but more on bringing over, or at least making, some of their other works as well, at least ones that might a a chance to appeal to western audiences. I mean, they did have some success with localizing Cowboy Bebop and Big O after all.
08th MS team aired on Toonami's normal block along with the Midnight Run.
SEED was canned and put in the Friday midnight deathslot just 4 episodes until the show finished its first run and then got pulled halfway through the second run.
yea, but the shows that took off walked a line that would appeal to American Audience
Treasure Island in space, the kid is named jim hakins.
Batman-esque atmosphere taking place in not-New York
Once again a space show about space bounty hunters. Meanwhile the show goes out of its way to remind you it's a space western.
The boon of 90s space adventure shows was a crossover the US and Japan had in common, as it disappeared anime was sure to lose its appeal. Space dandy lo and behold did well with Americans because it held that basic space adventure formula.
They should have tried tiger and bunny over here
What does the movie change? I was thinking about this the other day and here's how I think it could work.
Char's story is kinda like a shounen manga, the Zabis are the 4 gym leaders he has to fight. So his main story would be fighting those as well as Amuro
As for the good guys, it's kinda like star wars
the 1st movie would be them getting closer and Amuro going through his thing. meet Ramba Ral, then end on a highnote
2nd movie ends at a low note with loss of Jaburo
3rd movie is about fighting the solar mirror weapon, and I guess Lalah has to be in it too
I'm still new to Gundam, so I'm no rush to watch the movies.
>implying they have those money
Keep in mind American viewers don't even buy blu-rays on the same ratio japanese viewers do.
Also keep in mind that most casual anime watchers in the US don't give a fuck about the model kits, so the bulk of Gundam sales would be lost on them.
So why spend that much to gain pretty much the same audience they got with Code Geass at a fraction of the price?
>They should have tried tiger and bunny over here
Agreed. Then again like I said before they should've done the shit they did in the late 90's-early 00's even earlier in the 80's. With stuff like Votoms or Dougram or even Crusher Joe and Galient localized. Hell, they should've took the extra mile do something similar to what TMS was doing at that time. They had the chance but they fucking blew it.
How sad. That had all the elements needed for US acceptance: adult protagonist, Not-new york location, Television advertising Americans directly relate to, and super heroes. Sadly it was the perfect formula.
Also all this gundam talk has me thinking they should have just redubbed the movie trilogy, and aired it over 3 weeks on toonami during the summer. Then ran Zeta or what ever OVA they wanted.
yeah not to get too old fart but compared to BACK IN MY DAY it's still a shitload easier to buy gedum crap than it was back when AnimeVillage dot com offered the VHS subs, to say nothing of before that.
Other than the period in the 80s when any random robot toy could randomly appear or when Wal-Mart and Target had Gundam, where things are today is about as good as its been for US fans.
Almost 100% a marketing and merchandising issue. The angry soccermoms didn't help either.
Yeah, it's a lot like the Eva manga. Especially appropriate since both were written by their shows respective character designers to make their own retelling of the story differing from the anime director's vision.
Both add a little more and flesh out some situations. Both tell the same situation differently and not quite as good or fleshed out as the anime.
Actually, in both I think their best additions are the expanding on the backstory before the main plot begins.
Maybe Tomino/Sunrise should make a quality anime first not just a toy commercial.
>65# Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion (1997)
# Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion (1997)
I like how they gave it an "Edgy" tag in the shape of a hand flipping the audience the bird.
Anno doesn't hate all his fans. Just the stupid ones. Which is a LOT of them.
no we think robots are scary
People don't want to watch old shows unless they grew up watching them.
I mean, it took me a while to get into classic Gundam, too. It wasn't until I started watching 08th MS Team that I was willing to give 0079 a shot.
Yeah, I agree. It's definitely not perfect, but it's still a good manga. Like the other anon, I also have similar thoughts, but for the
Nausicaa manga, even if that's not a retelling.
Well, if this link proved true then it's from an untranslated interview with Yas:
Gundam is not very self-contained as a franchise. You HAVE to watch the first series/movie trilogy or you will get lost as to what the hell is going on, and even then it is STILL confusing with all of the suplementary material thats a require prerequisite reading. It's the same problem that is plaguing many contemporary anime franchises, with the whole "read the VN" bullshittery.
I'm also guessing it was successful because it doesn't take place in the UC timeline.
>You HAVE to watch the first series/movie trilogy or you will get lost as to what the hell is going on, and even then it is STILL confusing
What? The only thing you need for main UC is the original series, Zeta, ZZ, and CCA. And ZZ isn't even all that essential. What "prerequisite reading" are you talking about?
Zabis/Colonies/Federation/Titans backstory. I guess with 0079 they do kind of explore it, but the part about "Sides" is hella confusing especially if you don't know about Lagrange points.
In short, some of the series particularly suffer from needing to establish certain things from the get go, like what the hell a "Zaku" is (they never once explain it in the movie trilogy).
Seed finished airing. I remember the episode discussion topics on Gamefaqs and Flay dying being spoiled before it happened. People were cheering when it did. I also remember disco guns and seeing the Seed dub end made me get into fansubs so I could watch Destiny which was in the early 20's in Japan at that point.
That's all given (as much as necessary) in the shows themselves.
>like what the hell a "Zaku" is (they never once explain it in the movie trilogy).
I don't think it's too difficult to piece that together, though I don't remember the structure of the movies all too well. I'm more familiar with the series.
Toonami being pushed to weekly, and being killed as a result, was largely the fault of Cartoon Network's then president hating the block and wanting it gone, The issue being, toy sales. While CN got ad revenue from airing the shows, they got nada from the merchandise. As a result most of the anime was cut down to make room for more of Cartoon Network's own shows or licensed series they could make more off of, and Toonami was moved to Saturday nights so the execs would have a good excuse to kill it once and for all when no one watched it.
You'll also notice that the same thing's happened the last few years to most DC cartoons on the network. Despite being owned by the same company, Time Warner, Cartoon Network got basically nothing from airing DC's cartoons, so most of them (especially Beware the Batman) have been killed off due to bullshit grudges and corporate politics. Teen Titans Go! hasn't been struck down yet because the kids love that shit and the ratings are too high to allow it.
Airing gundam x after wing would have caused a second failing of gundam x because there were no toys for it only model kits. People seem to over look that aspect.
The only ideal solution for longstanding gundam would be if gundam seed aired one year earlier
Ha, nope. Go watch World Trigger. As bad as Sunrise is, as bad as PowerPoint jokes about Shaft goes, they'll never compare to the likes of Toei. Hell, even Deen is less of a joke these days.
Also, just to twist the knife further in, go google Devil's Legacy.
I'm pretty sure they did in fact make some unique US toys. I don't recall of any Japanese equivalent to the battle scarred line or the jumbo DX toys. There were also some MSiA variations that didn't really exist in Japan either, like the RX-78-2 that came with the G-Fighter. Lastly there's the repackaged-but-still-unique "HGUC" Char's Zaku, made from the HG 08th MS Team Zaku.
I watched MSG when I was 10 and I literally had no problem following any of it or figuring out what was going on. I think Simmons website gave me more in depth knowledge after the fact, but I was never left confused at any of the Gundam stuff that I watched ( which was a decent chunk of it, everything that got released in NA up until 2003 or so).
>Small subbers won't sub anymore and they won't sub the smaller anime that no one has ever heard of and help grow the industry and keep it relevant.
Are you seriously trying to blame attentionwhoring on the part of fansubbers on the official distribution channels ?
The moment a simple streaming service that can run on anything from fucking dial up to corporate cable that is all about cartoons and anime appears and can survive off of ad revenue CN and Nick are done for.
Hilarious part? They can see the writing on the wall.
Amuro is mentionned in 0080, and the ending of 0083 would be meaningless unless you had watched Zeta, which, as you said, almost necessitates watching 0079.
Also, theres a LOT of history thats important (battles of Solomon and Abao Qu, Ghirens Nazi tirade, differing production and wuality of mobile suits and armors as the war progressed, etc.)
Such a shame, since T&B seems like it might do well in the US. Considering the current trend with superhero movies, T&B would have been a great series to ride on said hype, while offering a different twist.
Shouldn't it be the other way round? It'll actually be in their favor since if they do get the rights, they'll be able to milk extra cash from it too.
Throw in some buzzwords like 'deconstruction of the super hero genre' mixed with 'a satirical look at the paradox in commercializing vigilantism' and bam, instant audience. Hell, considering that Marvel is planning Marvel Civil Wars, T&B seems like the ideal time to cash in on the hype.
I really don't understand why Sunrise didn't just use Origin as an excuse to remake all of 079 instead of just focusing on the new stuff from those mangas. Seems like a huge missed opportunity to introduce an entirely new audience to UC era.
They may have been able to make big bucks off of it, but I don't think remakes are a good idea when the intention is only to bring in a new audience because some aspect is dated. Everything eventually becomes dated. Even if they remade Mobile Suit Gundam, Zeta is now 30 years old. Does it need a remake?
It sucks that people have trouble getting into things, but that's just how it goes.
If Bandai was serious about introducing the Gundam to the west and getting young teens hooked on it for life what they should have done was produce a retelling of the original 0079 story adapted to the western world with a budget like Big O. Reworking the look of the show and it's robots to suit tastes of the early 2000s.
Wing fit perfectly for when it was release but Wing only had one movie to follow it up. The people who got hooked on Wing soon found the rest of the franchise alien and impenetrable and unless they suffered through the dated 0079 the rest of the franchise was lost on them.
If 0079 premiered on Toonami in 2000 reworked and retooled to look at least as good as Wing and The Big O it'd certainly have caught on. After that you'd Probably have to do the same with Zeta and ZZ. CCA onward though you could basically just port over and people would eat it up.
Why do people seem to believe remaking an established and revered property is easy? Did Yamato 2199 make everyone stupid? Thinking you shouldn't have to go back and watch the original because it's too old?
For the time Zeta animation was pretty standard for a full length TV series, nothing amazing and a marked improvement over anything seen in the 0079 TV series, but still outside the opening and some stock footage it was pretty average.
It aired around the same time as Mospeada, Layzner, and Dancouga and while it's not quite a sharp looking as Dancouga which looks fucking great for the time it doesn't look that far off the others. It just looks old now because we're used to better.
>I don't think it's too difficult to piece that together
There were literally times when I thought "Galbaldy" was a new faction being introduced. Gaw being another.
I guess it must be a translation thing, but I do think they needed more time in establishing certain things to put into context. There were times were I literally had to pause just to understand what there were talking about.
Yamato 2199 was done by Production I.G., that's why.
If Gundam were to be remade/remastered, a Sunrise/Production I.G. collab would be the only thing that could justify it.Not only would they treat the source material with respect, but they would modernize the parts that would be otherwise iffy in this day and age.
The nice thing about Production I.G. is that they aren't affraid to depict something gruesome if the plot dictates it. I bet they're the only ones capable of depicting the rocket-beheading of Kycillia in 4K resolution (and none of that "cut to the scenery" censorship when someone gets backhanded either. Fuck even Origins feel bowdlerized because of this domestic violence censorship).
>a Sunrise/Production I.G. collab
Knowing Yas, and considering his feelings on Gundam, if he had any say on the direction of any projects he's involved with, he definitely wouldn't have made an Origin adaptation, much less a mecha related one most likely. I think he would've made better use of the resources of the Origin OVAs along with I.G.'s talent to either make an adaptation based on one of his other manga, or hell he would've made an original story.
>Yamato 2199 was done by Production I.G., that's why.
It was actually Xebec (who is apart of IG Port) and AIC it just so happens that every fucking studio also had a part in the production as well (Sunrise did CGI)
>Not only would they treat the source material with respect, but they would modernize the parts that would be otherwise iffy in this day and age.
Yep! Worked great for Ghost in the Shell right?
>Did Yamato 2199 make everyone stupid?
>The nice thing about Production I.G. is that they aren't affraid to depict something gruesome if the plot dictates it. I bet they're the only ones capable of depicting the rocket-beheading of Kycillia in 4K resolution (and none of that "cut to the scenery" censorship when someone gets backhanded either. Fuck even Origins feel bowdlerized because of this domestic violence censorship).
I guess it's true.
>If you mean SAC, then yes.
Taking a fun buddy cop manga and turning it into a serious bore fest where all the characters are one-note and only exist to quote literary works? Just imagine Gundam by Oshii.
Look, Japanese business men are fucking retards with no balls to take any kind of risk whatsoever. Its the defeatist Japanese culture. "Cant be helped."
Seriously I saw a comment on colony drop from an old Bandai employee that was once in charge of licensing shows for the west, you know what she said to rationalize the failure of much of their anime in the west?
"Americans dont have the patience for long shows"
Meanwhile my stupid stoner friends from high school can marathon 500 episodes of a shonen series no problem.
The Japanese would literally rather make up random excuses than take a cold hard look at the fact that they have to start from square one in the west. Nah, theyd rather assume it must be something wrong with us and not their arrogant business practices
>Being contrary is the same thing as being cool and free-thinking.
You don't like anime, you don't like Gundam, you don't like SAC...
I mean, why the fuck are you on this board? To shipost?
Real talk: Gundam failed in the west (like most anime) because they came out during a time when animation was still viewed as something for children in the west. While anime has just about always had a variety for different ages, the west has only just recently realized that animation can be grown up. There's also the fact that Gundam came out when mechs were super popular in Japan when they've rarely held interest in the west. Yes, Gundam is still aimed at children, but it deals with a lot of adult subject matter while western cartoons for the time were HEAVILY child-friendly. Yes, there was plenty of violence and in some cases death, but they were always played off as nothing serious. Gundam has always been far more drama oriented. That's my take...
Japan made the stupid move to try and air the original MSG after having made a hit with Wing, G Gundam, and 08th MS Team, and having some success airing of 0080 and 0083.
They tried to recover with SEED but by then, it was too late.
Still, Wing, G Gundam, and SEED have enduring fanbases stateside.
> G Gundam was good and should have aired before or after DBZ(maybe it did, I dunno) but it needed another wing or something like it to keep if going.
Unh, Gundam X was there.
They just fucked up.
I hope these faggots realize now that, if it became popular in NA, it would soon follow on all over the world. Maybe we would already have operational Gundams.
It's my understanding that Toonami/CN had nothing to do with it. Supposedly MSG was packaged along with other shows like Gundam Wing and the UC OVAs to be broadcast, and they were required to show MSG as part of that deal.
I never completed the original MSG.
It's utter crap.
No wonder it didn't make ANY success.
I mean, I can see why it was popular in Japan during 1979. There was fucking nothing in '79.
Basically, japanese executives are pretty much fucking retarded when it's outside Japan.
Goddamn it faggots, didn't you moonspeakers learn anything fom the Meiji Era?
EXPAND. LEARN FROM THE WEST. LEARN SO YOU CAN DEVELOP AND GET MONEY.
Fuckers didn't learn anything. They deserved the bomb.
What novel? Fuck the novel. You COULD read The Origin, but not neccessary (since you already watched the movies, CONGRATULATIONS because I never even finished them)
There's the Origin OVAs if you want to expand on Char and his sister.
But yeah, you can start Zeta with no worries. In fact, if you want to skip ZZ it's fine too...
Watch CCA and Unicorn later though.
Unh... what? You completely misunderstood.
He's not saying the Episode 3 or that 0083 is bad. LoL bitch, Episode 3 is the best episode of SW... He's saying just to watch it after Zeta.
AAAAAND I highly disagree with him. You can watch before Zeta perfectly (it is set before for a reason, you know)
What do you think?
It's fucking terrible. Like all english dubs.
Does Americafags STILL believe that dubs are worth anything? I thought we were past that point, /m/
Man, moonspeakers are so goddamn irritating.
G Gundam was great fun. I watched it AFTER watching Tengen Toppa and still liked it.
>Hurr durr dubs are shit Japan is great!
The 0080 dub has David Hayter as Bernie, and is perfectly fine in every other respect.
Next you'll be telling me that the voice acting in Metal Gear Solid dubs are shit and that only the Japanese version should be played, because DUBS R SHITE.
We don't do any of that weaboo subs elitism bullshit on /m/. Either is fine in most cases, and if you think otherwise you should probably visit one of those other boards.
Probably because MSG has the best story in the entire gundam franchise. That's why people keep coming back to it. It's the most engaging and has unforgettable characters. Plus it didn't get too swept up by the whole making more mobile suits to sell toys thing. At least not compared to other gundam shows.
I didn't say anything about games nor elitist shit.
Just saying that there is no good dubs.
Next you'll tell me that the dub for Berserk is decent, or that you liked Dragonball Z's dub at the time, or some complete and utter retarded shit just because it was the dub you grew up with.
> that's what gundamfags actually believe
> it didn't get too swept up by the whole making more mobile suits to sell toys thing. At least not compared to other gundam shows.
Oh god you are serious aren't you?
The original gundam was THE ONE that started getting swept into making more and more toys. LoL those episodes fighting coloured Zakus using special weapons like the Axe and shit?
You think that was done for the purpose of showing the horrors of war?
Goddamn it, 0079 fags can be really boring.
Original gundam has some SERIOOOUS problems with pacing. The story is fine though.
>Did you know that people have opinions and if they disagree with you personally they're not wrong, just different?
So... why was I attacked when I disagreed that the english dub is good?
Selective /m/ mentality.
Because all of /m/ has been shit lately and everyone being hostile to each other over bullshit robot cartoons isn't going to fix anything or make anyone's life more enjoyable. I come here to talk about something I like with other people who like that thing, but it seems like everybody on here hates everything now.
>dubs are worthless
What shit. Anime dubbing makes it digestible for non fanboys. There are more and more shows being fast tracked dubbed while they're still being freshly produced in Japan. No one wants to read a 50 episode series from the 80's, few would still watch a 50 episode series from the 80's. Dubbing acclaimed series is the only good thing Anime is doing to increase sales. Most anime is shit anyway, so the language and business barriers help us. Nowadays, the best stuff is packaged nicely for easy watching instead of B-rate niche shit fansubbed that needs a spoonful a sugar.
>MSG has the best story in the entire gundam franchise.
I don't know about that. It has still some bad things which keep it from truly being great(like many other Gundam works) but it also has some things going for it that re good.
In all, it's a good story but I'm not sure if it's the best in the franchise.
Part of the reason why I say MSG has the best story is because how it was adapted into the Origin manga. Yes, there are some differences (and I'm really excited to see how the last four volumes will pan out). However, what Origin did was take the story and the characters and recast them as a serious story. Take away the dated animation and add in Yas's beautiful art, and you have an absolutely amazing manga that will stand the test of time. The story and characters stand on their own merits. I'm not sure any other gundam story could stand up to that transition.
Yeah, I think it's a good retelling as well, though it's not without its flaws and I honestly think there are at still least a few things the show did better imo. That said, they're still both good works.
>I'm not sure any other gundam story could stand up to that transition.
I think the Tomino novel trilogy is equal to the Origin in terms of a good 0079 retelling. Also other works I can think of that are just as good are 0080 and Turn A.
>I didn't say anything about elitist shit
>There is no good dubs.
He's actually correct. Gunpla didn't start to become a big thing until MSG was coming to an end, and by then it was obviously too late for it to have a substantial impact on the direction of the series.
You're right in the MSG was the start of Gunpla being a big deal, but if you think it had an impact on the series then you'll have to point me to the time machine the Japanese had built back in 1979.
>and I honestly think there are at still least a few things the show did better
And no, it's not just "a good manga". As a sci-fi story in general, it is superior to MSG in fleshing out all of the characters (even the damn White Base kids for fuck's sake), deepening the world and creating a history that actually feels real, the development/use of MS and how they move, the tackling/taking out of the silly or nonsensical plotholes/details remained in the original, and numerous other things.
People who hold it back as "nothing special" hold back progress and it's a shame how many fall on their swords for the original because of Tomino/the show's vintage/whatever.
DC's cartoons have been handling adult subject matter since the original Batman Series. One of the most constant being the abusive, one sided relationship between Joker and Harley.
but then again, that was early-mid 90's. Gundam was late 70's early 80's, when the west was still watching the likes of He-Man.
Because gundam is anti american. Many artists grew up in occupied japan and saw their independence annihilated by america. Their new constitution was written by americans. If you can't see the parallels between oyw and the pacific front then you're a fool. Read superflat you ignorant fuck.
That's funny considering Tomino was heavily against Imperial Japan's ideals, also Zeon was supposed to be an allegory for Imperial Japan with a hint of Nazi Germany, with the Feds being the Allies.