So, tried a thread in /tg/ and it fell off with one reply while I was sleeping. Given the 450+ downloads of the rulebook, there is evidently interest in this, but going forward I'm going to stick to posting on /m/. Although if anyone more familiar with /tg/ wants to try a thread there, go for it.
(All downloads here are updated to the current versions. Going forward, the downloads in the OP will be the official ones, and while there may be some midthread improvements, the main plugin will always be the one in the OP.)
Things going forward:
1) I'm currently working on adding GGG to the plugin, about half the cards are ready.
2) I'd like to get some kind of tournament going, likely for the first one it'll be 8 players, single elimination, base sets only (Gundam, Godzilla, Ryuki).
3) Please continue making custom cards, although remember to save your properly sized images and keep a separate document for their texts, to make sure editing is easy.
Any questions, feel free to ask!
Making a few simple (paint) demos, to give a visual idea as to how the game works.
Oh, man, I've been waiting for this. I saw the thread on /tg/ right before going to bed, so I wasn't able to read the rules and get some practice games in until the next day when the thread had already died. I've been scanning /m/ ever since. So your /tg/ foray wasn't pointless, you found at least one new player (and maybe I'll try my hand at making a set eventually)
Still plugging along at Getter Set 2. I have the stats and pics of 11/15 cards right now, and two others planned without the pictures themselves, so I should be done soon enough.
Also, I've been making a few guides to designing cards, mostly on card color identities and balancing, I'll be posting that later as well.
And I'm currently running a practice game that's reminded me of some questions I've been meaning to ask.
Firstly is about Kamen Rider Raia. Since all combat damage is dealt simultaneously, do all of the dying units share the same "dying response" period? Because this would allow Raia to block a unit, deal enough damage to kill it thanks to his equipment, and then still use his effect to save another unit (that likely traded with something else) and recycle all of his equipment even if he has lethal damage on himself from his own fight. That seems a little too good for a 1 cost 1 worth unit, especially since the equipment you put on him are likely Sword Vents, Getter Drill Missiles, or a Copy Vent Copying one of those that are worth 1 and cost 0.
Next, how does Overwhelm work with damage being removed after the combat phase if you just lost Overwhelm? Ex, I have a Guntank, a Ball, and a GM, with no pilots. The Guntank takes three damage in combat and the other two die, does the Guntank die from losing the Overwhelm bonus before damage is removed, or does the damage removal happen before he dies?
And some other general rules that still need to be hashed out in the vein of the Overwhelm question, like the fact that non-unit abilities probably need to be added to the "can only activate during your own main phase unless specified otherwise" clause, because effects like Tokyo Bay's can be activated whenever, and activating Rei Ayanami's effect from discard at the end of your opponent's turn to get an extra use out of Geoscape's effect, which don't seem to be intended. Oh, and official deck contruction rules, it doesn't state anywhere how many copies of a specific card you can run, I just guessed three from looking at the sample decks.
Thanks for the detailed feedback. Seriously, this is exactly what this game needs.
You are correct that all cards would share a 'dying response' period, so Raia works as you say. I didn't look at Raia dealing damage at the same time as he uses his abilities, and I fully agree he needs to be rebalanced.
Damage occurs during combat, and damage is only removed after combat, so if the guntank takes 3 damage, then loses Overwhelm, it would indeed die. I'm thinking I might need to add a Start phase and an End phase, because there are game actions during your turn before Draw (checking if deck needs to be reshuffled), and at the end of your turn after Combat (damage and excess resources are cleared).
Yeah, should be three, and all card abilities should have the same 'only during your turn unless otherwise specified' clause. I was I made a few mistakes in the rules, they'll be fixed for the next rulebook post. Let me know if you see anything else in the rules that's either omitted, phrased awkwardly, or just sounds wrong.
Also, an recent idea I've been toying with: would it be best to remove 'resources' all together (playing cards would work exactly like the first two demos)? Fog Bank and similar cards would then read 'The next card you play this turn costs 1 less.' Resources seems like redundant terminology that is potentially confusing to learn (for mtg, the difference between lands and mana is one of the most frequent things new players fail to grasp).
Glad to help out, I'm running A LOT of test games, since I see good potential in this, so I'll be sure to bring up everything that pops out.
As a long time Magic player myself, I agree with your idea there, removing the "floating mana" confusion from the game is a good move. You could also word the effect "when you are playing a card, you may discard this thing to reduce the cost by one" to allow it to work on reaction events.
Oh, and about this
> I'm thinking I might need to add a Start phase and an End phase, because there are game actions during your turn before Draw (checking if deck needs to be reshuffled), and at the end of your turn after Combat (damage and excess resources are cleared).
The deck reshuffle can simply happen during your draw phase "draw cards during your draw phase, but if there aren't any to draw instead reshuffle (but less curt than that)", but the start and end phases should still be in there, I think.
Also, the Overwhelm thing is kinda funny, because the Guntank would be standing there not dying while waiting for responses to the other deaths, and then suddenly start dying once his allies are gone. I can only imagine it died of loneliness.
So would Overwhelm be better as 'When this unit attacks or blocks, if you control three or more units, it gets +1/+1 until end of turn'? That would avoid the weird timing issue, and Guntank would no longer die of loneliness.
Yeah, that sounds better, you'd replace dying of sadness with being slightly more vulnerable to being "sniped" with direct damage effects like GM Sniper's and Kamen Rider Zolda's, which also enforces Overwhelm's bonus being tactical in nature, instead of actually making the units stronger, which is how it seems now.
Also, done some thinking about the resources thing, and I have a question. What would the wording be on how the game would work without resources, because there are some plays that the ability to "float" resources allows, like putting a card in standby to give you enough to activate Serizawa without having to immediately spend those resources on something, that are legitimately good to have in the game. I think it would be ideal to allow this kind of thing AND remove potential "lands versus mana" confusion, but it would require some tight wording and terminology to do so. And anyways, you should always be able to put a card on standby JUST to put it on standby, Federation decks using White Base REALLY need that ability. I've seen that with the narrow wins I've been able to eek out testing my Feddie deck versus my Rider deck.
I hadn't thought of stuff like Serizawa not working the same, and being able to put units into standby for no reason other than to give White Base fodder is a strategy I'd like to see stay available. I'll give it a bit more time before I make any concrete changes to the posted rules, maybe we'll figure out a way to make it work, maybe resources are a necessary evil after all.
Also, it should be noted that the Getter Charge keyword in the posted rules is an older version, and should read: 'When you deploy this unit, if you have three or more unit cards in your Discard that share a unit type with it, put # +1/+1 counters on this unit.'
>being able to put units into standby for no reason other than to give White Base fodder is a strategy I'd like to see stay available.
This one is easy, a "you can put cards from your hand into standby" action could be added to the main phase if the cost rules don't let you do that already like they currently do, but cool Serizawa tricks and other similar things are cool and should stay if possible. I'll have to give that problem some more thought.
Yup, saw that. Still haven't done much with a Getter focused deck yet, just grabbed their weapons for my Rider deck.
Also, after making my own Federation deck, I've noticed that the pre-made Fed deck needs some tuning to be in line with the other pre-mades, which aren't just two of each card from the set. Columbus and General Revel are cool cards, but they don't really fit with the rest of the deck's rush strategy since the units they deploy can't attack right away and don't count for White Base (Most of my test fights where the Feds won were over with by turn four at the latest, usually just needing to clean up 2-4 HP that last turn). The General in particular is bad for the deck's flow, having 0 worth AND an effect that does nothing early. Fixing up the Fed deck would make them proper "trial" decks that new players could fire up to learn the ropes before jumping into deck construction.
I would also like to state that DAYUM, the Amuro Ray card is really swingy. I got a turn 2 win just now when Amuro decided to sortie in the Guncannon on turn 1, and lost games earlier because Amuro sat in White Base moping instead of getting his butt on the battlefield for three turns. So, just like the anime, basically. Also, Sleggar Law on a GM Sniper is AMAZING. That is all.
You guys think this is too broken?
I have everything else ready for Getter Set Part 2, though.
Is Zeon anon still around? It looked like the set was all but finished, but there doesn't seem to be a link to the individual cards. I'm hoping to keep the factions (now colors, I guess) roughly balanced as the plugin gets updated, and right now we have a glut of Green and next to no Red.
Should be fine.
Yeah, Gundam was more thrown together than the others. I'll make sure the trial deck on the next update is actually somewhat balanced.
My first version of the Sniper was able to snipe every turn, and Seggar drew you a card when he died. That very combination is what led the 'Sniper' mechanic to what it is now.
>Sniper was able to snipe every turn, and Sleggar drew you a card when he died.
Hot DAMN, that is nuts. They're good where they're at now, where you want their abilities for closing a game and not for every single turn of this game you ever play.
And yes, Red needs some more love. Preferably of the Mobile Suit kind so I can still get crazy Amuro plays. On that note, though, a Mobile Suit that draws you a card when deployed should either be too expensive for Amuro to work with, or only draw the card when deployed from Standby (or just not from the deck).
>right now we have a glut of Green and next to no Red.
You want me to get to work on that? After I finish all the shit for Getter I'd be glad to work on something smaller scale.
Need a series to focus on though. Dougram, maybe?
Oh yeah, another thing I noticed. About Trick Vent, the Phantoms are supposed to go away if you use the equipped unit in a fight, but if you discard it for a Rider's effect, the tokens stick around, potentially even after the unit that made them dies.
And on an unrelated note, there should be some kind of symbols to denote what color each card is. I was reminded of some partially color blind friends of mine that get annoyed when color is the only indication of something in a game.
With Trick Vent, that's more just a 'hidden feature' of the card. It's a cute interaction, and the current version is the most text efficient I've been able to come up with.
For type indicators, there could be a small symbol at the end of the unit type line? Or the type line could just read 'Red Unit - Mobile Suit' or "Green Equip Event - Pilot'? I'd have to go through and redo every card so far, but it's doable.
Haven't seen Dougram, so can't say one way or the other. If it sounds good to you, go for it.
Also, anyone around for a game?
>Haven't seen Dougram, so can't say one way or the other.
It's realer as can be, it's a good fit for Red. Though a "good guy" unit set would probably involve at least one guy with a fancy bazooka (to be fair, the Big E Gun is pretty goddamn cool)
So after getting Getter's shit kicked in by a vicious Feddie assault and holding up to a second one, I've figured out that MY INTERNET FUCKING HATES ME. Sorry for the two disconnects.
That said, Getter Set Part 2. Contains notes and backup images.
As the Commander of those Feddie assaults, I would like to say that the Federation is a well oiled murder machine, when your Mobile Suits and Pilots actually remember to show up to the start of the battle! The second game would have been interesting to finish, because Amuro getting off his duff REALLY helped turn that back into a game instead of a complete face stomp. And it also helped prove that turn three victories won't always happen when a red deck fights a blue deck.
About your set, it looks good, but it needs to be brought in line with the new rules, mainly how Getter Charge works now. The new cards all look like they'll be really fun to play around with.
I would also like to bring up that I believe Warning Siren is too weak. Compare it to Fog, from Magic, which stops all combat damage for one mana. I think Warning Siren would work better as either a Fog (discard 1 or 2 green cards from standby to stop all combat damage), or work the same as it does now, but it only affects your opponent's combat damage. Thanks to Atomic Awakening and Serizawa, Standby cards are already a resource for green, and I don't think the Sirens quite match up to those cards.
and ALSO also, my King Kong and Strike Vent cards don't work right on my client, the images don't show up, but I see the King Kong card just fine in this image >>12258017. Is that a problem with the plugin that was fixed only for that demo, and if I fix the problem myself would it mess up my ability to play against other people?
Agree on the Warning Sirens, it's a card I've been looking at as well. Some games (usually against Red) it's a blowout, fogging their attack while leaving your high power blockers untouched. They lose a ton of guys, you lose none, and you take no damage. In a lot of other games it just eats cards in your Standby for next to no effect. It would likely do its job much better as a simple fog effect.
Shoot, I thought I had fixed that problem. Since there's a few cards that need changing anyway, and the +1/+1 counters STILL aren't working properly, I'll likely release a patch shortly. In the meantime, swapping the image codes yourself should cause no compatibility problems.
The new set looks sweet, especially the HQ. There's a few cards that could use a power adjustment (mostly the can't attack or can't block ones), but overall it looks really good.
Alright, I fixed my images, but now I'm gonna build an Eva deck and a Getter deck and pit them against each other a bunch. I'll have some test data on them, soon, so more feedback incoming after like a day or two.
Also, when you patch the plugin and edit the rulebook, I'll set up a /tg/ thread and try to babysit it some, see if I can convince some more guys to show their faces over here.
>mostly the can't attack or can't block ones
Too strong, or too weak?
Oh, speaking of which, when you put them in the set data thing, make sure you fix all the spelling errors and rebalancing in the carddata.txt thing.
Slightly underpowered, for example for cost 1 you on average get a 2/2 with small upside (or smaller with a bigger upside). Among other things this is something I'll be including in the card creation guides. There are errors in carddata.txt?
Cool. Assuming we keep resources in for now, the rulebook should be just about finished, and short of updating Warning Sirens the plugin should be just about ready. Hopefully it'll be good to go by tonight, then you can start in /tg/ whenever.
You never fixed the Getter's stats after rebalancing, a couple of the card names are misspelled (Pnji's Machanics, Musahi Tomoe)... Not much, but there are issues.
Speaking of which, in the next version of the Rules make sure to proofread the Red, Green, and Blue sections to make sure they're entirely disavowed of their old name, I caught a reference to Biological in there.
Is GGG anon still around? There's a change to the set I want to run by him. Right now the 'combined' units (that you can sac 2 specific other units to play) are very underpowered, and I don't want to mess up their stats too much. Would it be fine if they returned their "combination materials" from discard to play when they died?
Would help if I posted the picture.
X-Nebula Proof is immunity to the negative effect of the base (currently planned to be a flatbed truck), referencing how in Dougram, most machines are slower and weaker because of an effect called the X-Nebula.
Dougram itself is resistant to it, as are a few other Combat Armors (all of them the more expensive varieties). Chico is immune because he's a human and not a computer.
Hey this is the Zeon guy, I am very swamped with school work at the moment, but I do remember what needs fixing. Next weekend I should have a few hours to make final adjustments to the cards, sorry for the long wait.
hey, remember that time some asshole with a GM Sniper and Slegger Law fucked with you? Or when you just barely lived that combat phase? Or if your deck's engine has been shut down?
My god fucking internet. My connection is patchy as shit today. Also, figuring out the wording on GGG is taking more time than I had thought it would, so it's not in this plugin file (which is probably for the best, as Green would have 3 sets to Red's 1). If starting a thread in /tg/, this is the download links to use. I'll have a GGG ready plugin to play around with in a day or so. For everyone else just looking to play, the links in the OP are still fine, these are just fixing a few bugs and wording issues, and apart from the change in effect on Warning Sirens, there are no functional changes to anything. I want to make it clear that no matter what other links, the OP links will always be enough to play, and any other links in the thread will be minor fixes or tests, and not strictly necessary.
No problem. I imagine quite a few people are in the same boat.
Ah, that sounds cool. The card should be fine, then.
This, on the other hand, seems crazy. I'd limit the effect to one unit, otherwise it's way too easy to blow someone out with it.
>This, on the other hand, seems crazy. I'd limit the effect to one unit, otherwise it's way too easy to blow someone out with it.
The thing is that it costs resources and that it hits both people, so if you devote units to defense you're going to lose them too (And if you don't you're going to take a lot of damage).
I was thinking about making it targeted, but that'd be more powerful, wouldn't it? You get a free kill on some big enemy with no drawback.
I'd say the problem here mainly is that it's very cheap, and in red. With this card existing, you'd never want to attack red until your attack is guaranteed to kill them, because if they can survive the attack with minimal chump blocking, they take a large hit but then they proceed to stomp your face in next turn since you now have no blockers. Conversely, this also gives red a LOT more late game power, if your opponent has his board full of 20/20's block or be blocked by your 2/1's, they all get destroyed by a one cost reaction event. This card isn't the answer to Sleggar piloted GM Snipers, it's an amazing partner to them.
Neo New Plugin
Neo New Rules
Once I figure out the wording for Goldion Hammer, I'll post the plugin with GGG to play around with as well.
The base rules have changed significantly since then, but there's nothing stopping Ace Combat from being adapted as a set in this version.
You control the timing of the card, so if the trade doesn't favor you, you just don't use it. Meanwhile, sometimes the opponent crashes in with two Godzillas, and you use this to trade off a pair of Balls for them, while Gundam doesn't block, and starts beating face next turn. It flips a losing position into a winning position way too easily, especially for Red which usually has units to spare.
Here's some general card creation advice, I'll likely update along the way. If there's anything obvious I missed, let me know, and if there's anything debatable in there, let me know as well.
Also, I need some help designing the last card in GGG, as I've hit a dead end. This is the version the designer submitted. However, ditching the 5/6 GaoGaiGar and the 3/3 Goldymarg doesn't seem worth it. (continued next post)
Yep, an easy fix that I somehow missed. Dammit. Here's another.
Take as long as you need. The set had some cool stuff going for it, but it might be for the best that real world stuff came up, as it gives us a bit more time to make some Red cards to balance out the factions a little better.
This is what I did for the other combiner, which let it keep the same stats. Unfortunately there isn't enough text space to do the same with Goldion Hammer. Maybe Hammer can just block 3 guys?
Finally realized I've been fucking up making card sizes, so the Getter Set 2 ones might have an ugly purple bottom part. If they do, Katsura, then tell me which ones and I'll fix them.
Anyway, it's either this or a no cost "kill one creature involved in combat", which is less broken?
This one is still pretty dangerous, but might be manageable; I'd need to see it in action to be sure. I'd say stick with this one for now.
Also, internet has been really spotty the last few days, so output isn't as great as I'd have liked it to be.
Okay, new GGG set is in the plugin, bringing us to a crazy 3 total Green sets, 2 Blue sets, and one lonely Red set.
GGG Keyword: GS Ride: When a unit you control dies, put a +1/+1 counter on this unit. When this unit attacks or blocks, remove a +1/+1 counter at end of turn. (timing and tracking was difficult to manage with the initial idea, so this tweak more or less works the same, but is easier to keep track off)
The next rules update will include this in the Keywords section.
Probably my last bump of this thread, but given the pace recently, I'm thinking a new approach to this might be good. Please let me know what you think.
I really don't think this needs a constant thread. Instead, we could:
a) Start a new thread each weekend, and
b) When it dies, let it stay dead until the next weekend.
The threads should only remain active while content is being created and needs either to be submitted to the plugin or wants some feedback on power levels and whatnot, and/or games are being organized and played. Once per weekend ensures a somewhat regular time for people to drop off set submissions and get feedback. If things are busy, then sure, the threads will go on longer, but on slower weeks we won't take up thread space on the board.
Also, does anyone have a decent non-4chan site we can keep the basic links and how-to-play instructions? We could just have a pastebin, but it might be nice to have something that allows a small amount of discussion as well, so small things that come up over the week can be addressed without starting a new thread.
What do y'all think?
Your new guy is still here, and I AM still planning on making a thread on /tg/, but I happen to have been HELLA sick since the weekend. I was hoping it wouldn't be bad enough to stop me from answering questions and playing games, BUUUUTTTT
Yeah, if you're gonna let the threads die off naturally, you should have some place else to talk about the game, even just so people can find others to play against.
And some actual feedback. Hell and Heaven, the way it is currently worded, just deals damage equal to the difference between power and combined toughness, even if the toughness is higher.
I thought it fit the flavor of 'heaven and hell' better. Also I was having trouble deciding on the wording (on reflection I'd use something similar to the yugioh piercing damage text). Either way I'm interested in seeing how it plays with it's current wording. If it's not worth it, it can be changed back.
I'm also wondering what a solid external site would be, so we can have a permanent thread without having a permanent thread, especially when the project occasionally slows down, like now. I have no idea what a good host for such a site would be, so I'm taking suggestions.