Is Anno a fascist? One of his favourite anime is Uchuu Senkan Yamato, he wrote an embarrassingly nationalistic backstory for Gunbuster so that Japan would end up as the Earth's leading power, all the NGE characters are named after WW2 ships and a lot of his statements about modern Japan or Japan post-WW2 are in-line with the sentiments of a lot of right-wing commentators of the time. Many of his attitudes seem to line up with Mishima Yukio's for example especially when he talks about the emasculation or the infantilisation of the Japanese people.
How about other mecha creators? Since mecha often involves military technology and warfare, I wouldn't be surprised if it attracted a lot of uyoku dantai types to the genre. There's a manga about a guy who goes back in time to Pearl Harbor and changes the course of WW2 but its name eludes me. And Yamato is one that you can debate until the sun goes down.
A lot of people comment on the 'nationalism' in Yamato but I don't see it, even in the show. Yes, there's a very obvious piece of symbolism in resurrecting one of the most powerful symbols of Japanese identity, but the show was very pacifistic, even the original one. It was never about crushing the Gamelons but about making it to Iscandar. They didn't destroy them with the wave motion gun every episode.
And curiously, the Gamelons are very clearly styled after the nazis, yet they're the enemies of the very Japanese Yamato crew, despite Japan and Germany being axis buddies.
It's worth noting, unless Central-Anime was lying in their factoids at the end of episodes, the show was kind of being monitored for possibly pro-Imperial sentiments.
They had to dial back a few moments during production for that.
It's a legitimate discussion, anon. It's not like the absurd debates on whether or not Del Toro was a fascist for Pacific Rim because it involved mankind uniting to kill mindless slave enemies.
Japan has a very interesting culture because they had a brutal imperialist past and then it was taken away from them, leaving a lot of people with odd frustrations and political beliefs.
a lot of the things being pointed to as 'fascist flags' are similar nationalist sentiments that pretty much any and all American patriots would hold about their own country. Does that make them Fascist?
Yes it does. Nationalism and Patriotism are a cancerous blight on humanity.
Does anyone know the exact events being referred to here, and where I can read more about it?
As far as I know, Japan has a clause (Article 9) which forbids them from using war to resolve conflicts. At the same time, they have a large a powerful army in the form of the JSDF.
The way this is written it sounds like America wanted Japan to break Article 9 and help them but they didn't, while in other situations Japan has ignored it for their own interests/goals.
Well, I'm non American. And I find the degree of Marine worship and jingoism to be unbearable in a lot of US military stories. So I don't disagree with you.
He'a working in "military" scifi. It's honestly hard to find military scifi that isn't chauvinistic and socially regressive. Expressing Pro-fascistic sentiments is basically just a hop and a skip from there.
Uh, they really can't use military forces for anything other than for the protection of their national (sea) borders and Post WW2, the US has been pushing them to break their own laws whenever they've started a war somewhere in Eurasia.
Man, don't you ever read cape comics
>the US is the only nation that matters
>domestic terrorism is FIIIIINNNNNEEEE, so are autonomous killer robots that will randomly kill teenagers in their homes if they detect that they're genetically aberrant.
>everybody who isn't good is evil and you should totes slug them in the face with sledgehammers after they've surrendered just to drive that point home
>the year is 2152
>nobody is allowed to speak
>people have to learn sign to communicate in person
>The Loud & Proud Rebels of Eurasia are relentlessly hunted down and destroyed by the Voiceless Immortals
>their one last hope is now placed in an improbably extensive military industrial project to create the perfect weapon
>a gigantic suit of armor, a robot known only as
>the VOX POPULI
>but they were betrayed and the secret underground base housing the superweapon is under attack from the Voiceless
>they've broken through and are about to enter the launch-chamber when
>against all odds an angsty teenager named Yukio, completely by chance, drops into the cockpit
>and is forced to fight his way out and lead the rebellion against the oppression of the majority.
>coming summer 2015
Is it really Japan's fault for not becoming involved in the gulf war then? They were sticking to their own laws, that America helped impose on them.
But Ishikawa's pages implie that the JSDF have gotten involved in at least one non-defense conflict because it was in their interests. If that's true then that'd make them hypocrites and worthy of criticism. Trouble is I don't know what conflicts these are.
If Anno really was a nationlist nut, he wouldn't be close friends with Miyazaki, who is left-wing to the point of preaching.
IIRC, he did make some comments about how current Japanese adults "have the mindset of children" and how "it wasn't like this before or during the war", which is a valid point.
I don't think so, I think he was simply a military otaku like glasses guy in EVA and he let that influence his stylistic choices, but given the fact that he's gay and other things he said about otaku I don't think he longs for Imperial times.
He simply liked their uniforms and ships.
Anno strikes me as having that somewhat typical streak of otaku fetishization of WW2 that a lot of them have. The want-your-cake-and-eat-it-attitude of hating the military leadership in terms of their political agenda and their disregard for civilian lives/taking their soldiers for granted while still thinking that combat is exciting and heroic sacrifice is dreamy and coming together for a common herp and strong noble leaders and pbltblbtltblttblt.
On some level, every country likes to romanticize it's armies. Look at the number of vaguely militaristic superheroes, or all the video games that have absolutely batshit crazy premises to justify a good old fashioned Good VS Evil war. In Anno's particular case, there's Ultraman, which always featured a paramilitary group teaming up with the brothers to help fight off the scary alien threats... but they generally had no political agenda, and were almost quasi-academic institutions instead of resembling actual armies.
Then there's the fact that absence makes the heart grow fonder, and Japan hasn't had full blown military in a great while
just because he wrestled naked in the public path with akai doesn't make him gay
He's just another man idolizing the past.
Which do you prefer, a man reading manga on a train, or a brainwashed goon committing atrocities in the name of Japan?
Anno might cry over Japan's lost strength all he wants, but in reality it's called progress.
If Anno thinks Japan acts like children, then he's not the first. The American officers who came to Japan after they lost WW2, had the exact same thing to say.
That they were like children. Not because they read manga on a train, because they were stubborn little shits unable to function as adults.
What makes him gay is all the personal stuff he put in the KaworuxShinji relationship, the fact he married after 40 and always said he doesn't want to have kids and that kids frighten him.
Him also reading gay novels doesn't help.
Difference being Tomino never identified with Char, Ramba Ral, Gihren, Dozle or other Zeon characters.
Anno identified with Shinji, and having your self-insert fall in love with a faggot says enough about you.
They did send some troops for Iraq 2 but they were in a humanitarian aid role. It's probably more about the fact they're allowed to ignore other provisions in article 9 like the ban on the JSDF operating carriers.
>always said he doesn't want to have kids and that kids frighten him.
How is that exclusive to gay people?
>having your self-insert fall in love with a faggot says enough about you.
You are misunderstanding Kaworu's character. The sexual part of their relationship isn't important. Shinji is sexually attracted to Asuka anyway, like Anno was to her VA.
Yeah. The whole point of Kaworu's story was that Shinji wanted some affection and attention and simply sought someone who would just hold him tightly and not be a dick to him.
He wasn't gay so much as he was desperate for any sort of kindness.
Kaworu was mad gay though.
Yukio Mishima, japanese bookwrighter and leader of nationalist "Shield society". He tried to start a far-right coup but failed and committed sudoku. His most famous books are: Confessions of a Mask (about struggle with one's homosexuality, or something like that), My friend Hitler (a play about Ernst Röhm) and The Temple of the Golden Pavillion (the views on beauty and romantisation of the Kinkaku-ji temple arson, rate it 9/10).
Anno asked the chief animator to do a scene where they swimmed in a lake naked.
Somehow the chief animator at fucking Gainax was the last bigot in Japan and refused.
A sexually confused 14 year old kid swimming naked with a mysterious kid giving him attention.
How is that not gay.
Also Kaworu was confirmed to be inspired from Ikuhara, one of Anno main inspirations.
To be fair, even the script for that episode is... Different. It describes Shinji as having some uber-girly, shoujo heroine-esque mannerisms
But, it's not unheard of for guys who identify as straight to have a lone, powerful homosexual atteaction to just one dude, ya know?
But, again, I don't think Shinji was gay. Just lonely and looking for any sort of love.
>Japan hasn't had full blown military in a great while
What are you talking about? The JSDF is a full blown military despite Japan's claims that it's not or that it's a glorified police force. It's still #7 in terms of funding.
>it's not unheard of for guys who identify as straight to have a lone, powerful homosexual atteaction to just one dude, ya know?
That's closet fags though.
But yeah, Shinji jerked off HARD to Asuka and got massive boners for Rei. Kid is not gay, just confused and awkward as fuck.
Plus, it's not like Angels have genders...
Any sources for the Ikuhara thing. If it's true, I might actually fucking brother to watch Eva.
Older japs are imperialists who miss the good old days of the "glorious" Nippon Empire. That's nothing new. Nevermind the fact that pre-WW2 it was pretty cool, with all the samurai running around and getting shot like there was no tomorrow from Meiji supremacists
>"Nah, fuck this, don't need women I got waifus"
Only hardcore reject wota use this excuse, and even then, half of them don't mean it. They'd throw themselves at the feet of the first woman to look in their direction like Tomoko did in Watamote with guys.
The real story is that most Japanese people of marrying age are poor, have no time due to working themselves to death, or don't want to have to choose between parenthood or their careers. General emotional immaturity is also likely a factor.
I think Fukuda favors Japanese Imperialism to be honest. Take ORB, what he says is his idealized Japan. ORB's full name, in Japan at least, is the United Emirates of ORB. They changed it to avoid controversy stateside, as emirates is an Islamic term for principality.
Japan is a constitutional monarchy.
The two are polar opposites. While there can be an elected assembly with a principality, the power ultimately lies with the monarch/prince/emir etc. They get to set the policies. With a constitutional monarchy, the power lies with the elected assembly. The nobles do not set policy,
That whole thing they tell immigrants, that they must accept ORB's ways and customs, starts to sound a little more sinister now. I mean, the citizens don't have any real power over politics and they're told in no uncertain terms to accept that if they want to live there. They can't challenge it.
Hell, they might have to switch their religion considering the existence to Haumea. Haumea is a goddess of fertility and childbirth that is worshiped in ORB. They have their own religion, and immigrants are told to accept their ways.
And this is all Fukuda's ideal. Kinda scary.
a) Yeah no. ORB is a country that encourages immigration, has a lack of xenophobia or discrimination and is one of the few countries in Seed that embraces Coordinators. It's the entire opposite of Japan. If anything it's a mix of Japan and Singapore.
b) That is NOT how Imperial Japan worked. ORB is nothing like it. Imperal Japan was a militaristic and imperialist project from the onset. Later in the 30s it incorporates elements of European fascism as a counter to Communist. Post-Meiji Reformation, the power of the navy and army in determining policy and subordinating civilian government as well as ultimately being independent of the civilian oversight even to the point of not having to obey the Emperor is some of its most defining traits.
>a) Yeah no. ORB is a country that encourages immigration, has a lack of xenophobia or discrimination and is one of the few countries in Seed that embraces Coordinators.
Except ORB is extremely opportunistic. It's a time of war and you're offering people a safe haven, provided they submit to your laws and customs. Chief amongst these people are Coordinators, people who can perform better than naturals. Kira is only a student, yet he's the only one who can program a Natural-friendly OS. That's the power people believe Coordinators have, so of course ORB is going to make itself an appealing destination to said people.
This is a nation that sounded appalled at ZAFT further enhancing it's military might post-war, all while they had upgraded from Astrays to Murasames. Never mind that the Sahaku's, one of the ruling noble families, was seeking to rule the Earth Sphere with the Astray project.
Not him but it's never been confirmed, seems the main inspiration is an interview with Ikuhara where he speculates that a hot spring trip he took with Anno was the inspiration for Kaworu and Shinji's bath scene: http://17th-angel.tumblr.com/post/42052509118/all-about-nagisa-kaworu-a-child-of-the (sorry for shrine blog link, it's an interesting excerpt though)
Personally I really want to believe it, even if the inspiration is more about Ikuhara inspiring Anno and the manly bond of their souls or some shit than actual homogays.
Oh yes, that sounds like Singapore all right. A seemingly democratic country run by fascists who only care about money and power at the expense of the people. They welcome foreigners to abuse cheap migrant labor and artificially inflate their GDP.
Source: I live there.
>This is a nation that sounded appalled at ZAFT further enhancing it's military might post-war, all while they had upgraded from Astrays to Murasames.
That's because Zaft looked they were preparing for a freaking invasion of earth with 5 Gundam's of all terrains, a new space/atmosphere ship, and several variations of new grunts, meanwhile Orb had simply reworked it's basic grunt design to have a flight mode.
Never said that, I fully expect the Japanese gov't to be guilty of hypocrisy, I just wanted to know the specifics of what he was referring to. My country tagged along with Murica's ridiculous 'war on terror' so I know how ridiculous this shit is.
I think LoGH put it best.
Nationalism, in the form of patriotism, is not a bad thing. It's when politicians use it that it strays away from simply loving your country into something much more insidious.
As for Anno himself, I don't know. Nationalist, maybe, but not fascist.
>Over 500 MBTs
>Over 1000 other AFVs
>Over 200 SPGs
>99 M270 MRLS (largest operator outside the US)
>Bigger helicopter force than any NATO army aside from the US
They're pretty much the second biggest Western aligned army in the world and their equipment is very much up to scratch, both regionally and globally. They outnumber and outgun the British and French armies and this isn't even taking into account the JASDF and JMSDF, both arguably the best non-American air force and Navy respectively.
Being nationalist isn't the same as being totally fascist
but Japan bailing America out of a nuclear meltdown in NGE instead of the other way around gave me a giggle, nice try Anno
Really though, can you name someone in the mecha genre that outright villainized Imperial Japan and called it evil?
I can think of one person, Yokoyama. He talked about Nanking and called it an act of evil back in the 70s.
>so that Japan would end up as the Earth's leading power
UNPRECEDENTED! Nobody did something like this before, right? If the power is not US they're nazi-super-non-tolerant-brutes.
Nice meme, I love it.
Tomino is very conservative (read Japanese) on social issues. His works really don't challenge the Japanese mindset that create Nanking. It's not that diferent from American superheroes
if his works are in any way indicative of his own beliefs, then I think he sees the older generations as too indoctrinated by the system to ever be able to change anything and that only the newest generation can.
I don't know that he did off the top of my head, but that sounds like something Ishinomori would throw in with his usual "everybody sucks" material.
Yeah but Ishinomori was just bad at getting over his wife leaving him, or something like that. He still believed that good people will do the right thing in the end.
Mars was pretty much Yokoyama telling his audience "people become demons in the right circumstances"
I've always though on Kurumada as the anime/manga counterpart to Yukio Mishima for the nationalism and homoerotic machismo
Zipang was pretty annoying.
>>"Hey, should we help Japan win the war?"
>>"NO! FUCK YOU!"
>>"Uh, should we maybe let Japan lose the war?"
>>"NO! FUCK YOU!"
>>"...should we decisively do anything?"
>>"NO! We're just going to rag on about how every possible course of action is beneath us!"
Shigeru Mizuki fought for grorious nippon in WW2 and he's still alive, has he ever commented on it?
>A country with a population larger than it needs, especially in the face of automation and declining global resources is lowering its population due to societal and economic measures.
The only reason the West isn't in the same boat is a massive, unprecedented influx of migration.
Don't know if Nagai has commented on Imperial Japan specifically but he's strongly anti-war and sees it as something with no real victors. Which is why even though Ryo "wins" in Devilman he gains nothing from the victory and ends up feeling hollow and loss.
>A country that can't support its aging population and is not even reproducing enough to replace itself
This is all developed nations except Ireland. The only reason the west isn't shrinking is because they import brown people. And even then the German population is collapsing faster than Japan's.
Read Onward Comarade to our Noble Deaths and Showa: A History of Japan. The former is a fictional account based on his own experiences,a nd is an excellent war comic. In the latter he goes into length about his experiences in the Imperial Army and the shit they got up to in Asia in very frank terms. The shit he survived is nothing short of miraculous, he was lucky to come away from the army minus only an arm.
Just look at him here. Celebrating Japan's military history. Clearly a fascist.
Do you suppose that now that the WW2 veterans in Japan are old and dying, they're taking the "imperialism/nationalism/jingoism is bad, we know, we went there" mentality to the grave with them, and now the younger generations who were born after the postwar period and never had to experience the consequences of that kind of nationalism are foolishly embracing it and repeating the mistakes of their grandparents?
Not this shit again.
The majority of anime/manga is written by Japanese people FOR Japanese people. Does it surprise you that they use Japan's history and culture in their works?
Nobody bats an eye when every hollywood movie is about how America is the best, most just and freedom loving country in the world, and how only America is capable of saving the world.
It seems like OP is an Amerifat who can't handle his country not being depicted as no.1 in his Chinese cartoons. I suggest OP does not watch Chinese cartoons and go back to Michael Bay movies.
It's crazy how Amerifats SCREAM "LOOK AT THE JAP IMPERIALIST" whenever a Japanese story portrays Japan in the future as some kind of advanced country/race. As if Japanese people wanting their own country to be portrayed in a positive light is somehow illegal in the Amerifat's eyes.
Its stinkingly clear that it is always Amerifats who make these kinds of threads. People like OP and most people in this thread are morons who can only ever look at subjects like through their their Amerifat eyes. If you draw a venn diagram of OP and the people who say "why do anime characters look white" you would find the overlap to be almost perfect.
>Nobody bats an eye when every hollywood movie is about how America is the best
Europoors and liberals bitch about it 24/7.
>make a thread that by its very nature is political
>surprised when people talk about politics
>Anno: I think that the one thing Yamato 2199 lacks up to this point is a do-or-die sense of heroism. Of desperation. I think that’s because of the modern era we are in.
>Anno: Well, people back then had the experience of WW2 and the sense of urgency and desperation really came to be embodied in Captain Okita.
>Anno: I said most of this already, but if there’s anyone in the audience who has yet to watch the original Yamato, please do! Watching it now it does look old in many respects, but 2199 doesn’t have that hand-drawn feel or dirty and scratched cells, whereas the original does! (Laughter) Fans of the original like us feel that it had a kind of soul to it, but if you watch it as well as Izubuchi’s 2199, 2199 is a good… how shall I put it… companion piece. (Laughter)
>(to Izubuchi) But you don’t need to focus on the Gamilas side that much! I mean, who cares who that guy’s wife is?
Anno on Yamato 2199. More whining about the weakness/emasculation of post-WW2 Japan. He seems frustrated that the Gamilas were humanised instead of being unquestionable bad guys who can be remorselessly crushed. This line of thinking is a crucial part of fascist thought.
Anno doesn't like the things in 2199 that make me like it better than the original, a better focus on the "villains" and cutting of the "to we win, all the enemies MUST DIE!" thing.
Really, I dont expect it from a guy who is vegetarian.
His older sister's death at the age of only 19 years old. She was the only person to ever have give him support to go to Tokyo become a manga artist. His father has ripped apart the manga pages he originally intended to send to Manga Shonen. She suffered from asthma and died during a visit she made to Tokyo in order to meet with him on Tokiwa-So, So she got terribly sick because of the polluted air from Tokyo as they used to live on rural area before (and she still couldn't leave home for longs periods of time, so Ishinomori learned how to draw to show her the wonders of the outside world). It's said that his female characters were based on her.
I'd be tempted to end it all right there after something like that.
G-Reco was basically a subtle mockery of Japanese imperialism and Japanese society pre-WW2, where people were literally killing themselves over Bushido, Japanese hierarchy, and other indoctrination bullshit.
Japan is in a world of hurt more than just demographically, though. Germany has a leg up because the EU is basically their means of exporting their manufacturing to other countries without the liabilities.
Japan has the highest debt as a %GDP in the world and the Japanese banks constantly have to fight off deflation of the Yen. On top of that, Japan easily has the most toxic corporate culture in the world where you're expected to work 10-12 hour days but do so without being more productive than the United States.
>but 2199 doesn’t have that hand-drawn feel or dirty and scratched cells, whereas the original does! (Laughter) Fans of the original like us feel that it had a kind of soul to it,
He says this while he whores out his own flag franchise, using 3DCG and poorly animated stiff scenes.
>I think that the one thing Yamato 2199 lacks up to this point is a do-or-die sense of heroism
Says the guy who turned Evangelion into a looping consequence free dreamworld where dying doesn't matter because BAM, you'll just get reborn for another try.
Attempted coup my ass. He wrote a death haiku before he went out there, he knew exactly what he was doing. It was an elaborate setup that incriminated and endangered his friends just so he could live out (or die out in this case) his samurai suicide beautiful male death fantasy.
Or it was an easy way out after realizing that people didn't succumb to their sadistic tendencies he was so fond of. Everyone keeps talking about Imperial Japan when they talk about Japanese culture, when in truth that was just one aspect of Japanese history- one aspect that got filled to the rim with propaganda and got boiled over. It's like the same idiots who argue about Britain after the collapse of its empire.
No, that's Zeon. (Although that definitely backfired,considering how much Japan wanks off to Zeon).
What G-Reco is definitely mocking though, are the right-wingnuts and nationalist wankers who want to re-militarise Japan.
Comparisons to Japan occupying Korea, yes. Reason for why Layzner didn't go beyond 38 episodes, no. That was all on Sanyo selling a faulty heater that killed its buyer, thus a loss of money, and without any more money to fund Layzner, well...
The Gamilas guys were plenty humanized in the old Yamato. Not so much in the first season, but more as time went on. By Final Yamato, Desslar was the coolest character in the whole thing.
It distracts people from real problems. Instead of making a synthetic worldwide culture, building space colonies etc people are still busy with "muh nation is cooler than yours" shitstorms. The world must unite and nationalism is the obstacle people must surpass.
It does nothing to actually improve a nation, it just creates a bloated sense of superiority within the people that is easy for politicians to manipulate.
If you are going to go /pol/ on the discussion, consider this: blind allegiance to a nation and not its people or ideals would be exactly what the jews want, if they did in fact control everything. It would make it easier to get you to do what they want.
But the last time we had an era of heightened nationalism, tech for space travel accelerated massively. Nationalism is bad when it's unfounded statements, but it can also be a motivation for people to actually do something to justify their pride.
What you're describing is primarily patriotism combined with an obsessive need to one-up the Russians. Those feelings also nearly caused a nuclear war a couple times.
Nationalism isn't a real ideology, it's a tool used by demagogues to secure political power, it always has been. There's nothing wrong with loving your country, but when it enters public policy we tend to get shit like "the darkies shouldn't be allowed to vote because they're not REAL Americans".
But I'm probably the worst person to question about that opinion because I think only those who either served in the military or similar public sector duties. Then every voter shows that he places the welfare of the group ahead of personal advantage.
I agree that Nationalism is only good as a tool, that's why they NEED it. People should never question their superiors and leaders, in order for humanity to move forward towards the future.
>What you're describing is primarily patriotism combined with an obsessive need to one-up the Russians
If you don't think that describes Nationalism pretty well, then we have a difference of definition which might explain it.
(And actually, I was being deliberately vague so as to include the wartime developments like V1 and V2 in that. Just because there's a war going on doesn't halt scientific advancement, it simply redirects it.)
Japan is the go-to example for western-style democracy being forced to asian people.
Western style democracy is only good for western states, that's why shit like Arab Spring is bound to fail.
Name one successful non-western democratic country
I was going to joke and say Australia on the ground thats they're convicts and not Westerners, but I'll just be honest and say Kenya. The country has problems, but as a democratic government it's actually run quite well all things considered.
>Name one successful non-western democratic country
How is Japan "unsuccessful"? Their biggest problems would seem to be debt at the moment, which is also faced by western democracies, and the whole birthrate thing. You might convince me that their birthrate is a product of being a non-western democracy, but I'd like to see you do it.
>People should never question their superiors and leaders
Bullshit, one of the first things you're taught in the military is that while the chain of command is very important, if a plan sounds damn near suicidal you should voice your concerns. We're also taught that the civilian population has every right to criticize and question how we do things, even if a lot of people in the military don't agree with that.
Man I was watching that documentary yesterday and it freaked me the fuck out how this kid had a shirt from a local college.
Found no source on Sanyo sponsoring Layzner, but I found this on the faulty heater:
To be specific:
>>Kaoru Iue resigned suddenly in 1986 as a demonstration of responsibility for the deaths of customers who died using faulty Sanyo kerosene heaters. He was succeeded by Toshio Iue's son, Satoshi Iue, and subsequently died two years later.