I just watched all of Megazone 23 the other day, and I have to say part 1 was one of the greatest things I've ever seen. The arstyle, the music, the action, the characters, It had everything - I can definitely see why It's so well regarded.
However, I think part 2 what on everything that made it good. The very definition of an unnecessary sequel, all of the inspiration just seems to have been abandoned. It's hard to get across just how disappointed I was.
So I guess Megazone thread - and can anyone explain why part 2 was So lackluster?
Eh, I think part 2 is fun. I really liked its punk style. Always wanted to see more biker gang violence from Akira. Part 1 is okay but it really feels like a part of canceled TV series, nothing gets resolved and it just kinda ends. Part 3 is plain boring.
I don't think Megazone is very good for the most part. I certainly do like it and actually find the lack of cohesion and presence of three distinct creative voices fascinating but overall it's not a very good series. Part 1's got my vote for favorite installment but Part 2 gets points for at least managing to give the story a conclusive and satisfying ending (Part 1's fatal flaw).
Other way around, Part 1 had a really inconsistent tone that only worked as a setup for a more serious and violent sequel with higher stakes, an appropriately realistic art style and that could focus on action and conclude with a cataclysmic and emotional finale, rather than with a lost fight and drama like the first part.
The first part was cool, entertaining and had cute girls in it; but the second part was the real meat of it.
The fatal flaw of part one was the protagonist's character design.
Like what the fuck is this Ash Ketchum-looking motherfucker doing here?
Yasuomi Umetsu made him a little plain by comparison but at least I could look at him without cringing at his fashion sense.
What? The conclusion for Part I is great. MC actually loses and is powerless to make a difference while life goes on. Part II is the generic happy ending where Shogo does nothing and just cries to Eve to fix everything and she does also all his friends are alive for some reason.
>it's great because SAD
>the other is bad because HAPPY
Part 1's ending just feels like the teaser ending for a sequel. Shogo's lost and but he's alive and willing to live on into tomorrow. It's hopeful. Also in Part II the entire city blows the fuck up, the old order is destroyed and he and a handful of friends (because, you know, Haman Biker chick and a load of the others were killed BD's troops and there's only like six of them remaining) are left to rebuild humanity and succeed where BD and the other adults failed.
And Part III shows he failed to do that too. Shogo really is one of the biggest loser MCs in anime.
Its great because it was pretty refreshing for a mecha MC to lose his final bout and not make a difference in anime at the time. The other just opts for a generic Hollywood happy ending.
>Shogo's lost and but he's alive and willing to live on into tomorrow. It's hopeful.
His friends are going to war and he failed to get his revenge, the "antagonist" gets what he wants and the world continues on unknowing of what is really going on. Part II just really hands him a platter, he doesn't grow at all through the course of the Part II because he doesn't do anything.
This is why I found Part 2'd ending appropriate. I didn't find it "happy" so much as being a lone ray of hope in an otherwise grim and cynical finale. I otherwise greatly dislike Part 2 for Itano's juvenile style shift but the ending is more than serviceable and actually manages to make the story feel "complete" and evens adds some level of depth rather than leaving it without any sort of closure whatsoever.
I don't see how Part I was inconsistent, it was pretty dark and grounded for an anime back then and most of the shit wouldn't fly nowadays (Shogo's GF actually fucking the producer to land a role, Shogo essentially failing to accomplish anything, the prototype mecha being worthless due to the poorly trained pilot, etc.). Part 2 drops all that and becomes a generic action movie also what stakes? Shogo and his biker friends all make it out alive in the end and the Garland winds up being a decoy.
They're both bittersweet endings man. You can't tell me that listening to this isn't slightly uplifting after all the shit he's been through. After all that, he's still able to look at the sun and smile.
>juvenile style shift
what the fuck?
Since when are street punks beating up cops more juvenile than giant robots and going after cute girls?
Or maybe you're talking about the artstyle? It was entirely justified by the tone shift, which started in the first part.
Part 1 was inconsistent as fuck because it had everything you mentioned but also had cute girls doing cute things, tons of light-hearted teen movie moments and comedy. But that's the cost of transitioning to a more brutal tone later on.
the survival of humanity
I don't see why people insist on picking sides between Part I and II. They're both wonderful failures in their own way, and so different from the other that comparing the two is like apples and oranges.
People should clearly be reserving all their hatred for Part III, fuck that piece of shit.
>but also had cute girls doing cute things, tons of light-hearted teen movie moments and comedy.
Yeah like banging your producer, war propaganda, market manipulation and the loss of adolescence. You're just making a big deal over character designs and the SOL moments only enhance the tones since it shows how fucked up things are all while the cast are still ignorant.
For a high stakes battle there's not a lot of named character deaths or hell shit happening and considering it gets solved in a snap makes the worth thing worthless.
First one's a compilation reel of a failed TV series with a complete non-ending and a wildly uneven plot taped together with some new animation and a softcore sex scene. Second one's a follow up that retains almost nothing from its predecessor and feels like the last half hour of a proposed Megazone 23 live action movie that somebody decided to animate instead.
Both fail to be fully realized projects based on a single concept idea. Dat animation tho
Out of curiosity, how many of you watched Streets of Fire after Part I? Fucking fantastic film.
>You're just making a big deal over character designs and the SOL moments only enhance the tones since it shows how fucked up things are all while the cast are still ignorant.
WHICH IS ACHIEVED THROUGH TONE INCONSISTENCY.
>Everyone dies except for a handful of punks
>not much shit happening
If you mean that there's only one or two plot threads, it's a good thing. First part was worldbuilding, establishing shit, and the bitter ending was the indication that in the sequel, shit would get serious, focused, and intense. It was.
>First one's a compilation reel of a failed TV series with a complete non-ending and a wildly uneven plot taped together with some new animation and a softcore sex scene.
is this fact or just your impression?
Cause if it's the latter I don't give a shit.
>I have to say part 1 was one of the greatest things I've ever seen
You rock, Anon. I'm 44, I watched MZ23 when it came out (roughly) and I adored it. Still do. It's ending is both upbeat and downbeat at the same time -- a very difficult rightrope to walk. The Japanese have a concept called "The Nobility of Failure" and MZ23 pt1 encapsulates that idea perfectly.
(Check out "The Nobility of Failure" by Ivan Morris. Good book.)
I think MZ23pt2 is neat, because it gives us the sequel that we kinda wanted even if we didn't need it. It gave us the successful (as opposed to happy) ending MZ23 deserved, even if it didn't promise it. Quite contradictory and interesting.
The stylistic change from pt1 to pt2? Baffling. I still don't get it. They even changed the voice actors!
The insanely over-the-top, out-of-place gore? Same story.
MZ23ptIII.... man. Not sure I like it. MZ23ptIIIact1 (mouthful) was so shabbily animated. Act2 was harsh, with you-know-what being revealed. Coulda done without it.
So happy you like MZ23. It's one of my favorites -- perhaps even my all-time favorite. (pt1 I mean)
I think the art style change was for the best and perfectly matched the tone shift.
I wouldn't see the teen movie parts working with Umetsu's artstyle and I wouldn't see the gang violence working with Hirano's artstyle.
>WHICH IS ACHIEVED THROUGH TONE INCONSISTENCY.
But it's not inconsistent the entire point of the movie is that the masses are ignorant to what is really going on, the whole thing is a whiplash effect that's more effective than than generic FIGHT DA POWAH bullshit in Part II.
>First part was worldbuilding, establishing shit,
Except all that gets thrown away or retconned in Part II since there's only four returning characters from the first part and none of the shit that was set up in the finale really amounts to anything. Hell the fucking war they were talking about throughout the damn thing in Part I is never really focused on other than a short montage of graphic violence.
>shit would get serious, focused, and intense. It was.
It was neither serious (how trained officers couldn't hit a bunch of retarded bikerfags I have no clue), focused or intense. It was just a huge disappointment.
You're this much a fan of Part I and you don't even know that? Buy the DVD, watch the commentary track on it. Explains the basics of the production and the place it holds in the development of the OVA market. Ishiguro had done a few fragments of episodes for a TV show which fell through. He managed to secure more funding for bridging animation and quality polish, ramped up the violence and nudity and stuck it on the home video market. It was one of the first OVAs to make big bank in Japan, in no small part due to the much rewound sex scene near the end. Back when the Cream Lemon series was just taking off hentai was a fledgling market. A good chunk of Megazone's market appeal was being way steamier animation than you'd find on broadcast TV. I've probably misremembered a few details but that's the basics of it.
I think the ending to Part III kind of redeemed it, cheap as it was.
To see Shogo repeating the exact same mistakes of the previous generations only for another idealistic kid to bring it crashing down really hammers home the teenage rebellion ethos Megazone is all about.
That's just how you feel about it.
I don't know how the hell you managed to find the first part satisfying on its own, or what you expected part 2 to be like but it must have been some weird shit judging from how okay you are with part 1's huge inner tone contrasts (since you don't like the word inconsistency).
>Out of curiosity, how many of you watched Streets of Fire after Part I? Fucking fantastic film.
LOVE that movie. Watched it well before seeing MZ23. (I'm old.) God, the MUSIC!!!
Fun trivia: Streets of Fire was directed by the same dude who directed The Warriors. (!!!)
>That's just how you feel about it.
That's how the movie presents itself.
>I don't know how the hell you managed to find the first part satisfying on its own
Because it had an interesting world and set up and did shit that was pretty daring for its time.
> or what you expected part 2 to be like
An actual follow up that addresses the shit that was left off in Part I instead of going off into something completely different, less satisfactory and less generic, if you actually think that Part II was a great follow-up than I have no words (then again you seem to have missed the point of Part I's themes and what it was trying to say which is why you like Part II since it's completely shallow.)
>will it ruin my memories of the first two parts?
If you liked Part 2 there's no hope for you but yeah people who tend to like Part 2 hated Part 3 since I hated Part 2 I enjoyed it more but it's the worst of the trilogy.
I got Part 1's themes of illusory comfort and anti-war commentary.
I just didn't really care for them, and thought the second part answered them well enough, even if they weren't as in-your-face as in the first part.
Shallow is a word you should stop using altogether, by the way.
Okay so you admit that you liked an incredibly shallow follow-up that didn't even do what it's predecessor set up. Yep it she was nice seeing Shogo not actually grow up, BD doing absolutely nothing and Eve just handwaved everyone's problems in a couple of minutes. Don't even see the point of Shogo's GF being there other than being clingy and useless as shit.
You should really take your own advice in that regard.
>not actually grow up
what did you expect him to do, start a family?
As for his girlfriend she was useless in the first part as well.
It did what its predecessor set up. After watching the first part I was expecting exactly what part 2 was. Maybe a little more fighting against BD but defeating him would mean Gotoh not growing up.
He didn't. He still hates adults by the end and nothing came about of the film to change his mind
and considering what becomes of him in Part III reinforces this.
She actually had a character and an arc and was independent of him, while she didn't know what was actually going on like the rest of the cast it didn't stop her from pursuing her own goals. In Part II she's a completely different character.
It didn't, as already stated most of the plot point brought up in Part I were not addressed or just handwaved hence why half of the film is just those retarded biker characters doing fuck all and the final stretch being all action with none of them actually dying. People who say Part II was a good follow up obviously weren't paying attention at all during Part I.
Yeah, sounds to me like you just hate punks in general because they're "edgy kids".
>implying Gotoh needs to stop hating the douchebags who tried to kill him and his friends in order to grow up
at the end he gave up on fighting them, isn't that enough?
No, it's not enough for you because you hate the characters.
Oooh, wait, now I get it, you expected Gotoh to join the army and fight alongside MD or something like that, because you think that "growing up" means resigning yourself to do what you hate doing when it's necessary.
What the hell are you talking about? Nothing about what I said implies him joining the army means growing up. There's more ways to mature a character than having him confine to the expectations of adults which all the movies seems to be saying.
>HURR DURR MOESHIT
Fuck off. Those biker characters were a waste of space and didn't contribute to anything other than being meatshields for Shogo and they couldn't even do that right.
Yeah it's just that I'm so used to seeing this guy mentioned lately.