So how does the traditional steel and alloy mecha stack up versus one of biomass ?
Which would one be seemingly easier or resource efficient to produce in a time of war ?
>Takes time to grow
>If damaged, it needs time to heal
>Made of weak flesh and often relies on brute strength or needs to be armored in machine parts anyways to make it effective.
>Can be mass produced
>If damaged, it can be repaired or have it's damaged sections replaced as long as parts are available
>Made of metal alloys and shit so it's tough
>It doesn't need to use weapons or armor, it IS weapons and armor.
Also, if a organic mecha needs to eat, does that mean it shits too?
>Also, if a organic mecha needs to eat, does that mean it shits too?
Yes, look at Metal Gear Solid 4. Or it would need to be fueled with nutrient fluids and then given dialysis if it doesn't cycle out its own waste somehow.
We're just fleshy machines essentially
but are the actual organic materials needed? We could just use synthetic materials to mimic organic functions. Or would we just alter our biochemistry to improve what's already there. Is that /m/ anymore?
Which is the better show with Macross design rejects, Mospeada or Orguss?
I haven't seen orguss, but its probably better than mospeada
only good things about mospeada: manly trap, motorcycle armor, and the opening
I could listen to the opening all fuckin day though.
Why does the other guy take so long to swing? He basically raises his arm and then just stands there going "Man, it'd really suck if someone were to shoot me with a big ass gun right now. I better wait like this for thirty more minutes so someone with lock-on missiles has a chance to ruin my day too. Okay, waited long enough, here I g- LOCK-ON MISSLES?! NOOO!"
>implying Artmic had anything to do with Macross
>I haven't seen orguss, but its probably better
Can you recommend a good webm converter? Apparently I've been churning out sub-par files for over a year now.
That's all happening within a brief moment, but it's being shown from several perspectives.
biomass.. you just salvage the wreckage by breaking it back down into protein using enzymes, then feed it back to the tanks that you grow these organic mecha
unlike steel and alloy mecha, they are immune to EMP
>a good webm converter
The actual ffmpeg exe and your command line.
For resizing, you use the scale command.
where WIDTH and HEIGHT is the resolution in pixels will scale your image to the specified size. If you want to avoid stretching this when you garble the aspect ratio, just set one of the values to -1 (scale=-1:HEIGHT or scale=WIDTH:-1)
And if you don't care to know the resolution of your input file or to think up a good res to scale it to, you can always just halve the fucker with
"ih" tells it to use the input height as-is, and the /2 is a mathematical operation which divides by two, halving it. You could also ih*2 to double the size of something, or use iw (for the width) instead of ih (but if you're using -1 to correct for the aspect it really doesn't matter which one you pick).
All of this only seems like a lot to keep in your head until you do it two or three times.
>If damaged, it needs time to heal
This is more of a plus for Bioarmor/Organic Mechs. You can recover right in the middle of a battle if given enough time, making the need to go back to base for repairs obsolete. Although, it would require some specific circumstances.
>It doesn't need to use weapons or armor, it IS weapons and armor
Aren't most Organic mecha also their own weapon? There are a lot of things that vary between most organic mechs, such as speed and armor. At least with traditional mechs, they usually have a set standard for them.
if b8, then gr8.
If not, muy bueno.
Think about much time and food an organism needs to grow large; whale, tree, elephant, they all require tons of investment. A robot obviously wins over a living thing in that category.
And when it comes to durability and effectiveness, just look at boats; we moved from building boats from biomass (wood) to building boats from metal because metal is much tougher and requires less maintenance.
Basically, there's zero advantage to a biological mecha.
It depends. If it's alive, you'll obviously be restricted by things like organs taking up space. If it's just a mecha made from biological materials like one made from metal, it would depend on the qualities of the materials.
Ryo'Ohki and Fuku, sort of. They engineered designer living beings. Can take the shape of a cabbit, a humanoid girl, or a space battleship capable of fighting against the strongest spaceships in the universe.
Not likely. Due to the mecha's organic nature, it would, depending on how it's made, have unique genetic material that you'd have to develop and make specifically for that purpose. That part isn't really difficult, but the funding would be -- the cybernetic enhancements, depending on scope and size, would have to be much larger.
Familiar with cyberpunk any? Even if not, basically think of how expensive Alphaware is in Shadowrun. That's just for humanoid-sized folks, like the hydraulic jacks, the magnetized arm structures, the platelete factories. They run thousands of dollars PER enhancement, possibly more for military-grade cyberware and bioware.
Now enhance that up to three times the size, weight, and complexity and you'd be looking at a limited viability for the price range. It'd basically have to be backed by the military, government, or someone with a lotta cash to throw around.
That's not to say that organic mecha themselves aren't viable, but that enhancing them would be incredibly expensive, something that would certainly halt their use compared to inorganic mecha, who could, theoretically, be upgraded for much less expense.
Cost prohibitive. Think of it like this; a mecha is going to be around thirty storeys in height. Picturing an organic mecha beside an inorganic one, of roughly same height, you get roughly the same amount of work involved in upgrading them.
The difference is, you have to actually develop round the organic mecha's organs and its natural rejection process and, in general, know exactly how its body works.
You have to do the same for the traditional mecha, but engineers will have less difficulty integrating the systems, making sure they work properly; it'll require less maintaince and be less costly to repair; and lastly, enhancing organic bodies will always put it at a higher cost due to various circumstances related to the science and biology of the subject in question, genetically engineered or not.
I mean, think of it like this. Everyone's organic here, right? It's taken a long time for us to even get a grasp on how to replace limbs with prosthetics, bionics, that sort of thing, and taken a whole hell of a lotta money to do it.
But you can upgrade your computer rig, and were able to do so LONG before that and it is WAY less expensive than replacing a lost limb. Pit that on a thirty-storey scale and suddenly, costs skyrocket.
Even should, hypothetically, the enhancement place it above, it is unlikely to be adopted except in rare cases, for Newtype-like situations and pilots, or for specially designed forces because it is WAY too high a cost. Mass production would be near impossible, I think, though that itself would depend on the production values of the traditional mech vs the organic mech.
no, but the Evas certainly are
Incidentally, why the hell do they run on batteries?
other than to create dramatic time limits for battles
To be fair if you are in the middle of a battle you can hardly take the time to repair shit anyway unless it was a arm or leg or something you can quick fix.
it would do good for interplanetary type of things if it's basically run off a pure nutrient slush or pellets whatever you can have just one or two ships in the fleet make enough for the whole army and once you get the process down likely grow them faster than producing things once you take into account having to harvest and process the building supplies on the go from plant to planet etc.
Done right they would be super cheap basically that would be the appeal to me in regards to a sicfi military type deal.
So if there was a big battle and one got damaged really bad they would just cycle them out or you could have like a way to swap out bodies i guess basically a organic computer switch it off take it out put it in a fresh one switch it on.
but it is viable.
One thing I can say for regular Mecha, they usually never require any odd or complicated measures like this.
I'm not even seeing how this would be ideal or effective in a combat situation.
Well, in that case, they needed equipment specially for magma diving, and they never accounted for the angel hatching during the catch, so it was never really designed for combat in mind.
Like Armored Core, where weapons are swapped and dropped with relative ease, being mounted on a unit's back or shoulders, or handheld.
Armored Core V also let you change weapons mid-mission at times if I remember right.
You're gonna have to define that a little better. Do you mean making a much smaller Angel and sitting inside of it somehow? Because if you tried to fit a human inside of an Angel that was even two or three times the size of a human, you'd be displacing much of their skeletal structure, musculature, organs, etc. and would be left with a heavy meat suit that, while most likely better than a human of similar size, is probably going to crunch your pilot's bones whenever it moves around. It'd be useful only for the AT Field, but even that might be negatively effected by having such a shit size.
That is unless you can take the Zentraedi approach where you've designed a giant powersuit for a mecha sized being.
Come to think of it I believe in DYRL the Zentraedi mecha were organic to a certain degree (or at least their command fortress was).
>One thing I can say for regular Mecha, they usually never require any odd or complicated measures like this.
Yes they fucking do!
They probably do for whatever fluids they need as input, but getting rid of lactic acid as it builds up would likely be the best method since, assuming they work like biological muscles, lactic acid buildup prevents the respiration process from producing energy in muscle cells
It's the same process that makes our muscles feel weak and tired after exerting them, as lactic acid builds up our muscles can't operate as efficiently and our body tells us "Hey, these muscles feel tired" as a way to get us to rest them and break down/filter the lactic acid
It's been years since I've learned this though, so I might have some terms screwed up
Well, they were considered to be very effective at urban combat (Assuming Snake and his crew weren't around) so I'd say yes
Even though they were basically first-gen, they were still used in the time frame of Metal Gear Rising, though I imagine the LX-8Q (Ok I don't remember their designation, but you know what I'm talking about) were gradually phasing them out
Well, you'd clear the area beforehand before trying that. And if they failed to shoot down your helicopter the first time you deploy, they aren't going to after you're on the ground, making everything explode.
It appears their mecha were too as well.
I perfectly understand what you are saying, however,Lactic acid builds up because the cell is not getting enough oxygen for the respiration process to take place. So it switches to anaerobic energy process. This process develops a lot of waste products. The waste products are what makes the cell slower and sluggish. So the recovery process occurs and the waste is removed through the lysosomes. So the main problem is removing of the waste products, delivering of oxygen, and providing of energy. If those were fixed up the biomech would have a lot longer run time then conventional mechs, excluding nuclear reactors.
Second, nature is a hell of an engineer. Biomolecules tend to be a lot more complex and have an unfathomable amount of combinations as opposed to inorganic compounds. This leads to some things in nature being even stronger than iron or steel. Look at anamal, spider silk, limpet teeth. Some other synthesized biomolecules are stronger then Kevlar and weigh less. I don't think you guys are giving nature and biomechs enough credit.
The thing about biomechs is that replacing shit on the fly, like swapping arms and legs, might be a bit harder because if you're going to do that, you might as well build a metal mech. You are less likely to have that kind of modular design.
Biomechs might be possible if you have extensive and well-tuned fabrication systems that can pump out one as fast, or faster than, a a metal mech (see the Kaiju factory in Pacific Rim), in which case most of your tech is organic anyway.
I mean if all of your shit is grown/woven/hatches out of eggs, your mechs will probably follow suit.
The only advantage I could think of would be that in order to achieve the same articulation, range of movement and fluidity, the limbs would be based on organic ones but with synthetic materials.
So structured like an organic creature (bones, ligaments, muscles) but made from better materials (ceramics, carbon nanotubes, silicone). Similar to cyborgs in the Metal Gear series, synthetic biology.
First of all, what part of "tall critters' didn't you get. Second, here's another pic.
This thread makes me think of Scott Westerfield's Leviathan series.
I found it entertaining myself.
Has some interesting designs in the background as well.
I always wondered if a Terminator could eat or shit, myself.
I feel like it would definitely help them blend in if they could do both, even if they didn't need to.
Are all of them organic mecha including the goofy looking normal ones or just the special kinds like the MC or that blonde bitch?
Only seen the anime, not really interested in catching up with the manga.
In some traditional self-healing material applications (not biological processes in the body), all the shit necessary to repair damage exists in the material already.
Let's say I snap a thin piece of aluminum in two. I've disrupted its structure, but I haven't transformed any part of it from aluminum to something else, nor have I lost any material (no crumbs falling away). If I push these two pieces back together, they're not going to reform their bonds. In this particular example, it wouldn't even be aluminum touching aluminum at this point, but oxides that form on the outer layer of the metal. If this were in space and the break was exceptionally clean, then pushing them back together would cold weld it back into one piece, but that's a whole other bag of marbles.
In a capsular material, we hide little bubbles of shit all throughout the material's structure. When that material is damaged and the capsules are broken and exposed to air, their contents leak out and can perform a number of functions; they might induce a chemical and/or thermal change in the surrounding material that 'melts' and reforms things, or they might expand many times on contact with oxygen and fill the void left by the damaging, filling the hole and adhering the two sides together.
There are also vascular materials which rely on a network of tiny tubes that run all throughout the material, and the stuff inside works as above. This has the advantage that repeated damage to the area re-exposes the vascular network again, allowing you to repair the damage many times over as long as your central reservoir of this healing agent holds up. So this is something you could just refill.
Then there are materials for which reestablishing bonds is a natural process of their chemical make-up. You break them, stick them back together, and they readhere not completely unlike cold-welded metal does.
One big advantage of some of these materials is they have the potential to resist eventual catastrophic structural failure by repairing between blows.
Imagine slamming a wooden board, or a rock, or a sheet of metal with a hammer. You don't plow right through on the first hit. Each blow introduces microfractures, gradually weakening the material. With every hit, you create new fractures, break new bonds, and deepen existing fractures from earlier blows. If these microfractures are being repaired between hits, you suddenly stop making (good) progress.
The kaiju in PR weren't random monsters walking around on some other planet or the bottom of the ocean who decided to fuck us up one day. They were grown in vats by a separate race of creatures to be living weapons. The aliens tinkered with the designs over time to counter human strategies and capabilities.
One of the things I heard about it that I thought was funny was that one of the individuals on there was using some Kaiju extract to treat erectile dysfunction.
Kind of makes me wonder what medical advances they could make with Kaiju.
The Titans are all humans who have been turned into titans by a mysterious creature called the "Beast Titan." The human body remains in the nape of the titan's neck (hence why you have to slit their neck to kill them; upon death the body just dissolves into the rest of the Titan mass which is why nobody found out sooner). Regular Titans can become self-aware by eating someone with Shifter powers.
There's a bunch of other explanation, the specifics of which I can't remember, but the upshot is that only the Shifters like Eren and the Female Titan (blonde bitch) are self-aware. The rest have humans inside them but aren't "piloted" by them, so they can't be considered mechs by any stretch.
The Vajra are giant alien bugs from Macross Frontier. They're actually pretty chill.
What I meant by Syncing was just anotther term for being able to interface or directly connect to another life form and control. Maybe the JURIA system from Majestic Prince is anbwtter example?
I meant I never really watched anything else because I heard the Villains that came after didn't compare to those like Quamzin (this guy was funny), Lap Lamiz and Golg Boddole Zer from the original.
I also heard things get Meltran-centric in the later ones as well.
>Only one Giant gets any real focus, and the enemies are different
I heard a lot of the enemies that come after the Zentraedi aren't as flavorful as those in the original Macross.
The main antagonists are giant alium bugs, Frontier focuses mostly on the love triangle and a few off shoot characters.
It's an okay Mecha show, ai don't want to make it sound awesome or lame, it's decent. Alright.
They need to power the S2 engine, they can't allow it to activate on its own, doing that and piloting would cause the pilot to begin syncing with the EVA at dangerous levels, or risk awakening the EVA. The power cord is a means of circumventing this, and pumping power into the EVA through the organ but not out of it.
The point of organic things is they're self sufficient. Organic materials aren't the most light or durable or whatever out there, but they can be made into and out of other organic materials by organs made out of the same organic materials.
To achieve such an effect you have to limit materials and technologies used and include a shitload of additional systems like regeneration.
A modern tank will wreck anything organic in existence, but it won't do jack shit without huge logistical support. Crocodiles, on the other hand, exist on their own since fucking forever and don't give a shit about anything that's not food.
So, as long as you can provide your mecha with all the available support, machinery is better. Organics are better where logistics become hard.
Frontier has more fights than SDF. Take that as you will. It takes everything up to 11. More romance, more music, more fights. If you can tolerate the former two, you'll be rewarded with the latter.
No Evangelion units have S2 engines. It is explicitly stated that they couldn't develop them, even though NERV tried. That's why they took apart Ramiel and used its core to develop a prototype S2 engine for Unit 04, which was sabotaged. Everyone was surprised that SEELE managed to complete the S2 engines in the EVA series too.
Do you even know what the fuck you're talking about?
You wanted FIGHTS. You didn't say anything about individuality or character, just that you wanted more fights. If you want fights against antagonists with personality or character, I'd actually argue that Macross isn't for you at all.
Also, the final boss is the Vajra controlled by a human. So again, take that as you will.
I don't know, I found Quamzin and Lap Lamiz were pretty entertaining for villains in the original Macross.
They were definitely entertaining.
Was also kind of nice to see the Zentraedi stumble around the whole culture thing.
To be honest I've never found those to be all that interesting.
The Zentraedi units are why I stayed for the show.
I meant the enemy Zentraedi.
They're reaction to it during the first show was kind of humorous.
I will admit my opinion could change on it.
Could also be Nostalgia on my part given I heard none of the Zentraedi (male) units are ever featured again in Macross and that even when males are featured, they are they're using the female Queadluun (even if it is better I just can't ever imagine any Zentraedi male using it, it seems unnatural).
Constant pressure is needed to let blood supply animal cells, and part of the reason why spacesuits are so large and unwieldy to move in is all the air pressure/composition regulation
Tsumugi can be piloted.
Not necessarily. Tsumigi has a talking penis.
>this thread has been up for 46 days
I mean I know /m/ is slow but fuck
>Gets better with use
>Can learn, improve
>Literal "software" changes (genetics) can alter the properties of the physical function
>Can self repair anywhere there is biomass and water
>In many environments, no need for supply-chain
>Operational lifespan measured in decades
>Worsens with general use
>Requires inspections between sorties to ensure there are no catastrophic failures during combat
>Tiny problems in a single system destroy the entire thing
>Serious problems with thermal management
>Needs specific fuels
>Needs expertise to not only repair but also to identify problems
>Needs specific components, parts and tools to repair
>Operational lifespan measured in years and months, or even hours if it is unable to repair itself
Your fundamental mistake: Not realising an organic mecha isn't just vertebrae structures but also invertebrae, plant-life, bacterial and even micillium, all genetically engineered to do exactly what they need to do on demand.
An organic mecha *IS* the future of a traditional mech: Organics which grow synthetic structures like computers and circuitry through whatever medium we really need are where technology IS going to go.
Eventually, organics will be the curator of technology. Designer Organics *ARE ALREADY* nano-technologies.
>implying Artmic had anything to do with Macross
Not really, but Macross, Orguss, Mospeada, and Southern Cross were all produced by Tatsunoko. Artmic only did Mospeada, wherein Macross and Orguss were Studio Nue. Southern Cross was Tatsunoko and Anemone.