The biggest problem for me is the "Empty feel" that you always get with a badly thought open world, the gameplay is really fucking fine, but the story for me it's not even entertaining (no i don't need it to be good) the missions are mostly repetitive and all the extra stuff get boring really fast. There's something that make me feel hollow after playing the game for more than an hour.
>>13367778 This. Needed random events and bigger bases. Like they're great in missions but in free-roam they're barren. Have random civilians wandering from town to town. Have some of them raise the alarm if they see you or just run away. Have mujadeen skirmishing randomly with russian forces. AND A FUCKING PILOTABLE BATTLEGEAR >Cut for disrupting gameplay balance. FUCK YOU
>>13367465 Completely conflicted. There's so many things that pissed me off about it yet at the same it's the only game in years that made me play for over three hours straight causing me to dump 80 hours into it within two weeks.
>>13367465 Really, it's not the boring open world, the mostly lackluster gameplay with the exception of a few missions (Skullface, in particular, was one I really enjoyed), or the numerous promises that weren't kept (interactable, living Mother Base, customizable FOB's, etc.), the almost nonexistent story was what hurt me the most. I understand Kojima and his team wanted to make a game that appealed to the new generation of gamers, but it felt like MGSV just used too many ideas and failed to execute almost all of them, which means that the abysmal story is even more glaring. Staples of the series are taken out or replaced for no good reason; the casette tape system replacing codec worked in Peace Walker because it was portable, and there was a lot less lag time between going through the mother base menus and choosing missions, but with all of the helicopter rides, monotonous open-world side ops requiring you to drive around for hours only completing a few side ops, it made actually listening to the casette tapes an extremely uncomfortable shift in action from constantly moving around and doing stuff to sitting in a cockpit for large lengths just listening to audio tapes. Both the fact that large amounts of content relevant to the story are only experienced/heard through the casette tapes and that all of that story could have easily been put into the game through cutscenes just adds to the rushed feeling the game has, which ultimately adds up to a game that feels barren in story, gameplay, and setting, and left me feeling like the 40-50 hours I put into the game were for nothing; the already condensed story adds almost nothing to the franchise as a whole, and like many other anons, I would have felt better if it just ended at 4. All of this is made worse by the fact that the only game I've played that wasn't japshit or /v/-tier indieshit was Rising, and that MGSV will probably be the last real video game I play in my life
But then I'm apparently not like most metal gear fans, I've never cared about the story. I always played to do stupid shit like running around and constantly tapping walls to confuse the fuck out of guards.
>>13369203 The whackadoo story and tons of conversations with the supporting cast via codec/cassette tape is a tent-pole of Metal Gear, and it's almost completely absent in this game. It just felt so empty. Here you put in 45-50 hours, but I put in 200 and that story that was stretched too thin for 45-50 feels like an eyedropper of water in the Sahara desert.
>>13369431 The difference is that MGS2 was about self inserting into a character. MGSV having Big Medic be a self insert wasn't to praise you as the hero but to hammer in the notion that Big Boss is no longer a person but an idea that can be applied to anyone under the right conditions.
>>13369431 >>"Stop trying to be a video game hero and live your life"
That's not exactly it though. It was more simply go live your life and don't worry too much about the details. You're your own person and can become anyone you want. It being a video game was just the framing for the message.
>>13368800 I put around 130 hours into it. I enjoyed most of those hours. It's a good game. Great game at times. A terrible Metal Gear game though. One of the main reasons I did play as much as i did was because i thought there would be this huge playoff. Everything would fall into place. I would imagine the same goes for many people.
>>13369593 I don't need my Metal Gear games to have a big payoff at the end. Getting 'closure' was NEVER what Metal Gear was about. But I do expect an actual story there. And this game was the most bereft of story since MG1.
>>13367465 Rex will always be better >Abandoned in shadow moses left to rot for 9 years >broken and battered, beats current gen Metal Gear >doesnt need third boy(child)/Psycho Mantis to keep it running. >the only way to stop Rex is to literally shoot the pilot. >conventional missiles wont hurt its thick armor >9 years later still had the best capability to launch nuclear undetected and no counter measures for its balistics.
It was fun and that's what mattered. The story in MGS has always been bad, 1 seemed good at the time but when I look back now it seems really really silly; 2 and everything afterwards has been varying degrees of incredible stupidity. In fact as long as a Metal Gear games isn't as bad as 2, I'm reasonably happy.
5 feels like it could have been amazing if it hadn't been hampered by Kojima not knowing what to do I'm not sure whether the series will be better without him or not but it potentially should be better
>>13369247 >>13370184 >The biggest problem for me is the "Empty feel" that you always get with a badly thought open world, the gameplay is really fucking fine, but the story for me it's not even entertaining (no i don't need it to be good) the missions are mostly repetitive and all the extra stuff get boring really fast. >There's something that make me feel hollow after playing the game for more than an hour.
As i said before, it's not about the story, the game has many gameplay issues.
>>13369203 >I would have felt better if it just ended at 4 That would have left quite a bit of story untold. They clearly set up for a MSF v Cipher story at the end of Peacewalker. Why would you not want that?
The Metal Gear franchise is easily one of the most balls out retarded works of fiction ever devised by arguably human minds. The story makes no sense, the wacky setting and bouts of awkward humor completely clash with the serious tone and dark subject matter, the science is total bullshit, and (this is the big one for me) literally every single character is a total fucking moron. Seriously, it is a minor miracle any of these retards manage to dress themselves in the morning.
I find it frankly appalling that this franchise is so popular, when rightfully it should've ended after MGS 2. But apparently MG fans enjoy being told they're a bunch of soulless losers who mindlessly parrot every little thing their idols do. You people deserve disappointment if you're actually going to take that pretentious abuse like the bitches you are.
Also, the titular Metal Gears fade further and further into the background with each installment, which is lame. Fuck these games.
The best Gameplay I've ever had the pleasure to enjoy, and I can't really say that I didn't get my money's worth with 60-70 hours played.
But yeah the story just kinda ends suddenly with the horrible repeat of the tutorial mission, it would literally have been just as good if it was just a cutscene showing the altered/new scenes, since after you get out of bed and until Ocelot shows up literally nothing is different at all.
Also I fear that Konami is gonna retroactively make this game worse. They already made it much harder to unlock stuff without being online, and you now basically HAVE to put focus into your FOB, do revenge stuff, etc. I hope at some point when they are abandoning the game they patch it back to the values and increments that it was at launch.
>>13371575 Okay, I will admit Metal Gear has some good points. For all his droning long-winded dialogue that goes on forever, the series has plenty of subtle moments where a good deal of characterization is delivered without a single word. Really wish there was more of that.
Also, controversial opinion: The ending to MGS2 is brilliant. Until the Patriots start talking for fifteen straight minutes, then it becomes dumb again. Fuck memes, the "I need scissors 61" sequence is legitimately tense and makes total sense once we learn what the hell is going on. All the random twists and turns are clearly intentional as Raiden is just as speechlessly confused at all this convoluted whoreshit as the player is.
Again, too bad the Patriots ruin it by spending literally fifteen minutes explaining their relatively simple nature and goals. I might like this series more if it learned how to shut its fucking hole for once.
>>13371575 Kojima is one of the best writers the medium has had. Up until MGS 2 that is. His genius is mainly evident in his early stuff - Snatcher, Policenauts, and Metal Gear up to MGS.
The problem with MGS 2 (and 4) is that by the end of MGS there was nothing else that could be done with Solid Snake's story. But the fans (and probably Konami) were screaming for a sequel, and even though after every single game in the franchise including Metal Gear 1 Kojima didn't intend to make any more, he kept on making them. So it gets progressively more ridiculous and convoluted.
With Metal Gear 1 through MGS 2, he was even making fun of them being sequels by making them literally the same thing, and in MGS 2 it's literally part of the plot that you're playing the same thing yet again.
3 escapes this a bit by going back in time, and is the last glimpse we saw of Kojima's potential beyond making the same game over and over. Seems like he was barely involved with PW and it's hard to talk about 5 since it was half done.
>>13371623 >Again, too bad the Patriots ruin it by spending literally fifteen minutes explaining their relatively simple nature and goals. I might like this series more if it learned how to shut its fucking hole for once. Yeah, the expostiion in these games is always awkwardly placed and just as awkwardly delivered.
>>13371768 >"We are a group of A.Is who control America through economic and psychological manipulation. We think humans are too dumb to make their own decisions, so we're going to outright control human behavior itself via editing the Internet in real time." DEEP.
The problem I have with TPP comes with how Kojima executed the tv series format, in that Chapter 2 is essentially a season made up of recap episodes and of what little fresh content occurs there is actually pretty goddamn hype.
Chapter 2's highs all get offloaded into the side ops where you can't relive them on your terms, but gee if you wanted to rerun some main ops I guess you're in luck because FUCKING NONSTOP DIFFICULTY MODIFIER REHASH MISSIONS FOR DAYS.
Chapter 1 is a pretty good starting "season" to the game, yet is also way too WOW IT'S FUCKING NOTHING to stand on its own. It just really hurts to play through Chapter 2 and have it sour Chapter 1's higher points.
It's too hype for its own good. You're teased into Chapter 2 expecting crazy shit and instead you get told to fuck off.
>>13372036 What tech? The AI tech? Miniaturization tech? Though I figured out pretty early on that Mantis was making it move because he was there both the first times it did so, (the second one being after Huey said it couldn't move). I can't understand the relationship between Mantis and skullface, was he aware of Mantis at all? I figure he should have been since it followed his will completely empty and he could summon that man on fire at will seemingly, but then he's all surprised when liquid makes it move through Mantis but never ever direct his surprise at Mantis. Basically I feel its weird that Skullface doesn't bat an eye at Huey saying Sahelanthropus can't move when Skullface had used it already.
Avellone did a pretty good job on most of the quest he has written.
Also >"I" hate someone, this means that someone else that is even worse for "ME must be shit "IN MY OPINION", which it's the generally approved opinion because "I" say so. I hope you can see the pattern anon.
>>13372290 The computer hardware was too damn big, and to upscale the design so as to account for 80's hardware would, if I recall right, introduce destabilizing flaws in the design.
The problem is that come the time the hardware would be sufficiently miniaturized that Sahelanthropus could be built without design compromise, the Cold War would be over and Huey would have little to take advantage of to justify building his pet Metal Gear. The post-Cold War climate would tell him to fuck off, especially if they find out about some of the more bullshit quirks of the design:
-it's literally a walking nuclear bomb, which is not a cool thing to be building in the post-Cold War years -it utilizes biological agents for offensive capabilities not just limited to converting itself into a nuclear bomb, which would likely piss off people considering the attitudes held towards biological weapons (which are kinda banned under the BWC; it depends on how one interprets the archaea technology).
Also Skullface was blown away at the thought someone else was more driven by hate and revenge than he was. To quote:
>WAIT. WHO IS DOING THIS? >SUCH A LUST FOR REVENGE... WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!?
He knew how Mantis worked, that he channeled rage and other negative feelings like a sort of psychic amplifier tethered to whomever happens to be the most butthurt person around him, but he didn't realize Eliquid was just that permanently butthurt.
>>13372396 Still bothers me how exactly nobody acknowledges the physical presence of Manits, Ocelot never saw him right? He only gave his exposition in the tape. Even when Sahelanthropus floated away no one seemed to notice him. Did he have a corporeal form? Or perhaps only people whose rage he channeled could see him.
>>13373197 Either 1 or 3 in the main series, and Ac!d 2 or Snake's Revenge outside of it. I like all of them though, except that shitty iPhone game.
>>13374413 I'm really hoping we get to see more of the era between MGS1's ending and the Tanker mission some day, Solid Snake and Otacon hopping place to place kicking bootleg REX ass is too cool a concept to not be a full game.
>>13374545 >Snake framed for the sinking of the tanker and killing hundreds of marines. >goes into hiding >while laying low, trying to figure out what, where and why Ocelot took the stolen metal gear ray >found the metal gear via information fed to them (most likely La Li Lu Le Lo/Patriots) >Raiden and Snake infiltrates around the same time due influences of Patriots in the scheme of having the president getting kidnapped but not really. >no Metal Gear invovled during that time frame Why make a Metal gear game about nothing???
>>13369203 >monotonous open-world side ops requiring you to drive around for hours only completing a few side ops, it made actually listening to the casette tapes an extremely uncomfortable shift in action from constantly moving around and doing stuff to sitting in a cockpit for large lengths just listening to audio tape
You know you can listen to tapes in the field? Why were you not listening to them while driving around the open world? Both problems solved!
>>13375210 Yes I fultoned Volgin, but Venom Snake was alone there, It seems like Snake talks about Mantis with with Ocelot and Ocelot believes that Snake has seen him, especially since Ocelot seems familiar with the soviet paranormal research while Snake seems doubtful of the whole thing. But the only time Ocelot could have seen him is when they gundamjack sahelanthropus right?
>>13375260 The only other time I could imagine would be maybe during the hospital escape, I can't remember. But yeah, during the man on fire fight either Kaz or Ocelot do make some kind of exclamation about kid mantis, but obviously that's only from what silent snake is telling them.
I wonder how much in this game can potentially be attributed to brain damage.
>>13377686 >>13377692 Thanks. I accept this because Kojima. Is it some sort of man and machine possession? I get the "programming" to balance and move the machine is far beyond the time, while making the parts seems easy by comparison. Some sort of neural interface for mantis? is this connected tech to Snake's arm control?
>>13377736 Ghost kid (really, we call him Psycho Mantis but there's never an official confirmation that's who he is, just to clarify) essentially gets hijacked by the will of whomever is the most angry person near him. Skullface takes advantage of that to puppetmaster a few things, all the way up to Sahelanthropus itself. The real bottleneck to the whole thing is that given the technology of the 80's, there's no way to make a manned Metal Gear of Sahelanthropus' specifications without having to resort to using a child as a pilot. The AI subsystems that deal with posture control and other passive aspects of bipedal locomotion, itself enabled by some incredibly crazy technology empowered by engineered variants of microbes known as archaea, occupy so much space that, even with any optimizations provided by resident AI expert Dr. Strangelove, the design just won't work, and Skullface mandated that it be a human-controllable design so as to not have a repeat of the Peace Walker incident wherein a ghost in the machine manifests and exerts its own will over the designed objective of the machine. I recall remote control systems being in the works, but eventually Skullface just gained control of shota Mantis and he was all "fuck you, it's good enough."
>>13377806 Hoo boy, hadn't played Peace Walker. Persuing an idea of what the Peace Walker incident is, I went to the MGSwiki and found what seems to be the early inspiration for metal gear Rex. Man these games know how to link story.
Not really. REX was specifically designed to target and shoot down incoming nukes with its railgun as a defensive measure, according to Otacon.
Peace Walker was built as an automatic override of US national missile defense. The idea was that if one side launched nukes, the other wouldn't because the person knew if they pressed the button to retalitate, they'd be known as the man who doomed humanity to near-extinction. So PW was built to take out the idea of human error, and have a machine that would take over our launch systems and automatically launch our nukes when it has detected that the other side launched theirs.
>>13378120 Or to put it in other terms, remember in Dr Strangelove when the president says "I will not go down in history as the greatest mass-murderer since Adolf Hitler!" when asked about retaliation? Huey believed that that mindset meant a country was free to nuke without fear of retaliation because the other side might think that about pressing the button.
>>13378120 Haha thanks for the summary I got to the PW page and realized I don't have an hour to scour for the headline events out of the waist-deep narrative. I walked away with this monster hunter DLC joke. I was aware REX was really just a nuclear weapon platform. Or at least capable of payload delivery. There was a nuclear warhead salvaged from REX's railgun just before Snake reaches it in MSG4.
>>13378095 The lore of the MGSverse is crazy. It's also kinda impressive how it retains itself and yet also provides reasonably plausible tech shifts even when the prequel shit goes full 20th century scifi.
The iDroid, for example. The use of holographic projection gives it the advantage of not having its display bottlenecked by the body dimensions of the device as in modern smart devices, and yet it has only limited standalone functionality. It simply combines a radio set with a GPS system, with some minor intel aggregation features included (the laser scanner is admittedly pretty fucking impressive, and that's without wondering if it has built in OCR or if the data is handled by intel agents to feed back to the device). It is more akin to a remote terminal than it is a true smart device like today's phones.
>>13378288 I can accept (most of) the tech of MSG one through four quite easily. All the rule of cool, somewhat trite world building, constant scenes adding on spoonfuls of fluff into deadends; still works in those games. When I look into the side items it gets more ridonkulous. Snake's suit seemed like it's a decade ahead of our time even in 70's/80's pieces. But hey, that's the nitro boost they hide under the surface of every single game. Even the cover of MSGV they turn the crazy side of Snake's face away from the viewer.
>>13374413 A game about the Boss with the ability to use any member of the Cobra Unit as buddies. Detailing her training with the Philosophers, her time in WWII, and everything after leading up to Snake Eater.
>>13378449 see >>13378524 PDA market lost out to laptop and cell phones. Experimental cell phones lost out and got better as laptops progressed. Then we got to 2008/09 when specialized tablets go big and apple releases on a sure thing in 2010.
>>13378557 '07 with the gen1 iPhone, first and foremost.
And when that device succeeded where PDAs durdled, begun the smartphone wars had.
Though that discounts the presence of RIM and their ever popular BlackBerry. The scene was really only for business folk (Crackberry addicts and Treofags, as I remember them) and people trying to be hip and special with their Sidekicks and their Nokias and so on. And then when Apple made smart devices mainstream there was the whole awkward period before Android happened where everyone tried making their own iPhone killer. From Motorola fashion phones to LG brickbars, and then Apple goes off and strips the phone out and bam there's the iPod touch reviving the PDA market under the guise of a PMP... except not entirely because not many companies care to play the PMP game because people would rather have the phone tacked on than not.
And this is before the tablet scene kicks off with its iPads and Galaxy tabs and Surfaces and where the fuck is Wacom during all of this, you'd think they'd want in on the tablet market no?
>>13378661 Blackberry was one of the few good, proper smartphone prior to the iphone. You had good phones as data networks launch (Proliferation of flip phones from 04-08) and people started using their phones as music players and basic browsers could get you places. I'd only credit apple with really building the tablet market because they had the luxury of seeing others fail and have people wanting more out of their phones. They struck when it was hot. The two years before ipads you had nooks and kindles doing well and the occasional off brand. Tablet industry froze in 13 since most people who wanted tablets had one, and new ones were marginally better. Now we're in a new flux where tablets are able to run your life. Wacom lead the way so long in device interaction their design nuances became common demand. Wacom put a lot of money in during the PDA days and got little/no return. They probably shyed away again when the tablets that caught on were black and white readers with no touch functions.
I'm still disappointed that Huey didn't hijack Battle Gear after developing it and reveal that he was the real villain of the game all along, using our resources to create a weapon to defeat us and retake his metal gear from XOF.
>>13378120 I remember Otacon says that it's equipped with a TMD Missile Module. Theatre Missile Defense, that is, which is anti-missile missiles. I don't remember him saying that the railgun was intended to be anti-missile.
>>13379337 Konami is dropping out of the video game market, most of the MGSV staff was laid off or shuffled to other short-term projects. There's a rumor that Bandai or Namco (I forget which) will buy the MGS franchise from Konami at the start of next year, but Konami is done with it.
>>13379388 There was a twitter post by some underling who apparently hadn't heard about it yet, but I'd hardly call that "proven false". Weigh that against Konami giving Kojima the boot and tell me what you think.
>>13379438 >didn't even finish it? That's because they fired him. MGS is one of the best known video game franchises out there, and they shitcanned the creator. Why? Because the game wasn't going to be profitable enough. They literally cut their losses and pressed what they had onto disc to recoup what they can of their investment, knowing full well that they'd get flak for the game not being complete. I'm actually indifferent to Kojima, my favorite MGS game is still the one he didn't make (Portable Ops) but if even MGS isn't going to be profitable enough for Konami to support, what makes you think they're still willing to invest in more games from lesser franchises or new IPs?
>>13379469 Let's not forget some other important things Konami's been a shitcase about, like abandoning Gradius, PT and the subsequent scorched earth policy against people who had it, and all the rumors about the shit they put people through internally.
Part of me wants to believe it's all an elaborate ruse and we'll get MGSV free DLC when Kojima comes on stage at E3 as Punished Kojima and we'll all laugh about it in the end. But the odds of that get more incredibly unlikely as time goes on.
>>13379323 the railgun had ICBM countermeasures as otacon said, but the rail gun was built to throw other projectiles which we all know what for. i think the countermeasure was a way to get otacon to work on it without having a guilty conscious, but later he realize it was also being using for the opposite.
>>13373197 1 or 3. Both are pretty great, and each one has its own charms and weaknesses.
Special mentions for GZ and the Tanker chapter/VR Missions from MGS2 which were also loads of fun.
>>13374503 >I'm really hoping we get to see more of the era between MGS1's ending and the Tanker mission some day, Solid Snake and Otacon hopping place to place kicking bootleg REX ass is too cool a concept to not be a full game. Fucking this.
If the timeline is happy to jump backwards and forwards on a whim, I don't see any reason for this not to happen.
Better yet, a partial remake of MGS2 where you play as Snake during the Plant chapter would be a nice finishing touch.
>>13374517 A Solidus game might be neat as long he didn't turn out to be too much like Big Boss.
>>13381299 >I just hope now Kojima will go to another studio, and finally make another ZoE, even if he has to rename it something else You can get into legal trouble for that sort of thing if it's too blatant, if we're including gameplay. Some guy who worked on the NES/SNES Fire Emblem games went to some other company and made a Not Fire Emblem game for PS1 and got sued, IRC.
>>13381960 apparently some crazy people are trying to hunt down real world locations mentioned in 5 to find the secret of the hidden secrets of whatever one of them snuck into a building and took pictures
I read about them over at https://kiwifar.ms/threads/r-neverbegameover-bat-shit-insane-metal-gear-solid-conspiracy-theorists.13227/
>>13379323 While the game doesn't really talk about the railgun within the context of TMD (a job more explicitly linked to that missile module on REX), at some point I believe there's mention of the railgun being a miniaturized development of tech researched for the Strategic Defense Initiative.
To quote Wikipedia on the real world basis >Research out of hypervelocity railgun technology was done to build an information base about rail guns so that SDI planners would know how to apply the technology to the proposed defense system. The SDI rail gun investigation, called the Compact High Energy Capacitor Module Advanced Technology Experiment (CHECMATE), had been able to fire two projectiles per day during the initiative. This represented a significant improvement over previous efforts, which were only able to achieve about one shot per month. Hypervelocity rail guns are, at least conceptually, an attractive alternative to a space-based defense system because of their envisioned ability to quickly shoot at many targets. Also, since only the projectile leaves the gun, a railgun system can potentially fire many times before needing to be resupplied. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative#Hypervelocity_Rail_Gun_.28CHECMATE.29
>>13388437 i suppose the plot was solid for the first 3 hours then it just died for me. there was no plot development at all after that- its just triggering events after playing enough missions and/or side missions. is that a mechanic for triggering plot development? if so that is not appealing at all.
>>13379205 Otacon made REX, but I don't know how much he knew about the railgun or that it could launch nuclear warheads. He clearly didn't know about the stealth warhead and that REX could be used for nukes. He states that the missile pods on top of the rail gun could be used for TMD, not that the rail gun was made for or even could perform in a TMD mission.
Now really, I know some people love FOBs, but the way Konami is handling it (making it mandatory in the campaign, storing resources online to prevent people from playing offline and getting microtransaction dynamics in it) is really devious. PvP should never be an obligation in a game where the focus is the offline mode, let people kill themselves at MGO. I want to hunt soviets, not play Clash of Clans version Mother Base
>>13397183 >Otacon made REX you forget who is the original Soviet scientist Aleksandr Leonovitch Granin. Yeah, there's no way otacon would make a nuclear capable bipedal tank, but the captors and the original designs said otherwise. they probably hand fed him info saying it does one thing when captors had ulterior motives.
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