I seem to recall that in Macross, the entire earth was destroyed except for the chunk contained within the SDF-1.
I thought Robotech had the same thing, but then they combined other anime series to make Robotech the New Generation (Genesis Climber).
So, how did New Generation take place on Earth if the Earth was destroyed?
The planet wasn't destroyed, just very heavily bombarded, the Macross Saga goes on for over ten more episodes after the Dolza Fleet attack in both Macross and Robotech. During the Reconstruction arc there's commentary about how there are even plants growing outside the "planned recovery zone" indicating that both the survivors were trying to re-seed the planet and that life was returning anyway. And then New Generation is set 25 years after that.
>And then New Generation is set 25 years after that.
And nine years before that Earth gets raped again by a group of incredibly powerful, but also incredibly stupid, alien geezers. This climactic fight weakens the remaining earth forces to the point that, by the time the Invid arrive in New Generation, Earth gets invaded and conquered.
Bottom line: Earth takes a lot of shit.
That's not correct. Robotech had literally everyone but the SDF-1 humans and the Zentraedi remnants die off while Macross revealed that a lot of people survived in bunkers around the world.
In Robotech, humans and Zentraedi interbred and used cloning technology to clone the population of the Macross to repopulate the world, until 99% of the Zentraedi remaining gave in to their original programming, rejected Culturization, Macronized their Miclone bodies, and had to be exterminated by the remnants of the Earth military after the Robotech Expeditionary Force left to fight the Robotech Masters. The Zentraedi made their fortresses in the wrecked Zentraedi ships of South America, thus the Earth military forces dubbed themselves the Army of the Southern Cross, hence the title of the second generation.
The planet recovered using genetic templates found in the SDF-1 and recovered from other space installations like Sara base.
>In Robotech, humans and Zentraedi interbred and used cloning technology to clone the population of the Macross to repopulate the world, until 99% of the Zentraedi remaining gave in to their original programming, rejected Culturization, Macronized their Miclone bodies, and had to be exterminated by the remnants of the Earth military after the Robotech Expeditionary Force left to fight the Robotech Masters.
...What the fuck? I'm still reading the comics, and none of this was ever brought up in any of the arcs pertaining to the Macross Saga, pre-Sentinels, and Sentinels. I mean, yeah, the malcontent uprisings were pretty bloody, but all the Zentraudi were ultimately micronized by force and reduced to live in outlaw settlements and shanty towns while the rest joined Breetai and the Expeditionary Force out into space. Is this the Mckinney novel continuity?
Eeeehhhhh, depends. It really boils down to which version you want to get into: Most of the 'grimdarkness' (as well as the meat to the Robotech lore as a whole) is mostly contained in the comics and novels, so don't rely on the cobbled together animated series to fill in anything because it fast-forwards all over the place without holding your hand.
Robotech does have some pretty gripping side-stories and makes for a pretty grim universe that is doomed to endless conflict on the size of Warhammer 40K. Of course, there's going to be some pretty whacked out stuff you're really going to have to try real hard to swallow as you'll run into some really frustratingly dumb characters and some really hoaky 80s sci-fi plotpoints, but its a pretty fun experience.
Pretty much, though no planet is safe in the Robotech universe: Either your world is invaded and enslaved by aliens looking for magical space flowers or it just fell into the conflict by circumstance and is used as a planetary beachhead.
Shadow Rising is on indefinite hold, likely until the Robotech Live-Action movie is made...whenevr/if-ever it gets made. harmony Gold is trying to make the impression that they're still working on it, but they only vaguely talk about the development and nobody has seen a single sign of any planned story or even conceptual art.
Frankly, it sounds like its just dead altogether, with absolutely nothing having been done it for the passed 9 years.
has it been that long? man where has the time gone
Im surprised there hasn't been a kickstarter campaign or some shit. Id at least like to see shit play out in comic or novel form.
also Maia porn
>Im surprised there hasn't been a kickstarter campaign or some shit.
There was, though it was more of HG's half-ass remodeling of the The Sentinels series than anything else. (It all took place in the middle of Sentinels with the "descendants" of the characters" playing the lead roles). Needless to say, after so many fuck-ups with getting shit off the ground, nobody really trusted HG enough to give them their money, especially since the whole Kickstarter called for completel fan-funding without any set plan on what the proposed pilot was going to be pitched to. It failed miserably.
>Though I was talking more about SC itself.
Doesn't matter. Apparently Harmony Gold saw this as the next big thing worthy of your attention over SC. The whole thing with Robotech Academy really made them realize that fans aren't going to fund anything from them regardless of what the hell it is. They had to over-hype and outright fabricate the development on Love Live Alive just to get people to buy it, totally masking how little effort or content actually went into the thing.
Well there's plenty of Robotech fans out there it's just that, well, okay I LOVE me some Robotech but the thing is that show came out in the 80s, so basically the fans are kind of old enough to be able to spot a bad investment. Especially when it's not a conclusion to the shit they already started
Id honestly be willing to buy Academy but not if they're just gonna leave it half finished like SC
I'm still waiting for a decent first person Robotech/Macross shooter. Preferably open world.
I want to pilot a Valkyrie. And don't point me toward that horrid 3rd person non-photorealistic-3D game from a decade or so back.
I'm thinking more along the lines of Titanfall meets Far Cry 3/4.
>Well there's plenty of Robotech fans out there
>fans are kind of old enough to be able to spot a bad investment
>Especially when it's not a conclusion to the shit they already started
Yes, that was entirely the whole point of my response.
Before the Academy Kickstarter even took place, Palladium Books (affiliate of HG that distributes the Robotech RPG books) started a kickstarter of their own by raising money for a Robotech RPG Tactics game with set pieces as rewards.
It went beyond its $70,000 goal and skyrocketed to $1,442,312. However, like anyone else affiliated with Harmony Gold, Palladium too is just another tiny desperate company willing to do anything to sell a product. Its been two years and there has not been a release of the promised Wave 2 pieces that were promised in the successful run of the kickstarter, and have gone completely silent as to any/if any progress has been made on the project or where all the money went. Some of their own backers actually had to threaten them with legal action on their Facebook just to give them some kind of answer and what they got was a childishly angry response blaming disgruntled backers for the delayed progress and made a vague mention that an update was coming soon. Months and months of Palladium website sales later, and still nothing....
The Robotech franchise is just doomed to shitty companies and the horrible mismanagement of fucked-in-the-head no-talents trying to make quick bucks off of gullible fans.
What does HG even do these days anyways. You'd think with Plat making that transformers game they'd hit up to do Robotech
I mean it doesn't even have to be plat there'd be no shortage of people who could make it
>I'm still waiting for a decent first person Robotech/Macross shooter.
Here you go...
>What does HG even do these days anyways.
Selling toys and various useless and defective merchandise. They practically threw out their Robotech forums to turn their entire website into their Twitter/Facebook/Store hub so you can buy more shit...in case if it wasn't already obvious to you everywhere they make an "announcement" about something.
Robotech isn't even the company's main source of income. Its just one of many products that they happen to have loose rights to to make a quick money off of. They also buy the rights to cheap foreign/indie television shows and movies and resell them, even cheap Korean knock-off anime like Legend of Blue (Blue Submarine No. 6 ripoff). And on top of all of this they also sell real estate.
This company does everything from little expense. That's why nothing worthwhile is ever done on major projects, unless a bigger company like Warner Bros or Sony is willing to assist them with funds and distribution.
how would open world even work in this setting though? Most likely you'd be a soldier and fighter pilots don't just cruise around looking for quest markers
also fuck open world games. All that does is create a bloated piece of boring garbage for the sake of itself
>And on top of all of this they also sell real estate.
Yes, Harmony Gold also prides itself as a real estate firm In California....And they also own a large screening house in Los Angeles for private film investers (they also use it to show off their films to their own staff for shits and giggles).
They dont, nor need, to care about the Robotech/Macross franchise. Its just there for profiteering, like everything else they get their mits on.
Seriously guys, I shouldn't be the only one pointing this out everytime one of thes ethreads pop up. Goog Harmony Gold's track record of gimmicky bullshit and marvel of how high it stacks.
>do they not pay royalties to the macross guys?
>they must have cut a hell of a deal
>my fucking sides
The people who made/produced Macross are Studio Nue and Big West. After SDSF Macross was a huge hit in Japan, distribution rights were given to Tatsunoko Productions (company that also ssisted in animating some Macross episodes) to help sell it overseas. Rights were then picked up by Harmony Gold, but networks said the 36 episode run Macross had was too short for American TV series at the time so HG had to combine two other shows, Southern Cross and Mospeada (these were owned by Tatsnoko), with it to make up the time. While editing was taking place, Nue and West began to take issue with Tatsunoko's handling of the distribution rights and began cutting ties with them, and unwilling to further cooperate with Harmony Gold. Still retaining the distribution rights, HG continues production without incident.
Robotech is finished and becomes a major hit in the US, with crediting only the English editors and two Tatsunoko producers as the sole creative force behind the show's development, with the creators of Souther Cross and Mospeada expressing admiration for combining and excelling their two shows into a successful product. After a while HG began to get in their heads that they owned everything Macross and began sueing anyone and anything that resembled or attempted to market Macross products in the states. Further, either pressured by Harmony Gold or pursuing their own ambitions, Tatsunoko tried to sue Nue and West for full ownership of Macross in Japan. Court ruled that Nue and West are the apparopriate owners while Tatsunoko and HG still retain the distribution rights the footage they bought of Macross in 1985: This means that they can distribute and sell the series however they please, with merchandising rights to toys and comics. However, they cannot use characters, mechs, or story elements from Macross in any movies or shows. Japan gets no profits.
The actual legal hurdle is an insurmountable one.
Harmony Gold has trademarked the word Macross and the logo for the New UN Spacy in the United States, Australia, and European Union. They can just keep renewing that trademark, and anyone trying to bring Macross over to Western markets can never use any references to Macross or the New UN Spacy logo without Harmony Gold suing their ass. They'd probably lose, maybe, but it's such a risk for any of the fairly small localization companies that are interested in anime that it just isn't worth the risk of completely going bankrupt.
Harmony Gold took this step after Tatsunoko lost their case, which was predicated on the fact that they paid for a portion of SDF Macross' production. Harmony Gold claimed that they were given copyright to SDF Macross via Tatsunoko as part of the distribution deal, but Tatsunoko got BTFO and Harmony Gold realized they only held the rights to selling Macross. So they decided to trademark it and get in the way of anyone trying to fight them over it, and since a lot of their execs have been in Hollywood for a while they know Hollywood lawyers, who are some of the worst lawyers to deal with. Anyone who wants to challenge them will need deep pockets, love Macross, and be willing to go to the mat over series with limited appeal, if /a/ and /m/'s bitching about how their shitty taste in music isn't the deciding factor in what the singing character of the next Macross sings is any indication.
And this is ignoring the issue of licensing music from Japan. Japanese music companies are, according to urban legend, all Yakuza operations with incredibly arrogant execs who think that they shit gold.
you know the sad part is that legal nightmare aside the people who actually worked on the show really seemed like they wanted to do a good job and took it all really serious. Nothing was dumbed down and they where very respectful of kids ability to follow a plot like this
its just the execs fucking shit up for everyone
It was the one success that Carl Macek had in his life and was his literary baby. Of course he would try to milk it as much as he could. You could argue that without the trademark the Robotech novels and comics could never have existed. Of course, Big West should've taken them to court the instance they filed for the trademark, but Kawamori doesn't care about the foreign market at all and never has any interest in pursuing licensing agreements.
It's a different situation since they are the ones getting sued. A lot of angry backers are now contacting their states' Attorney General and Better Business Bureau. Palladium is fucked once this go to court.
>Of course, Big West should've taken them to court the instance they filed for the trademark, but Kawamori doesn't care about the foreign market at all and never has any interest in pursuing licensing agreements.
Not entirely true. The Macross Frontier BDs did have english subs on it.
Okay, now I really need to close a sale to earn my commission and blow it all on those BDs. Thanks!
SDF was licensed from HG, so only they saw money from it and not Kawamori or Big West.
Plus was licensed before Tatsunoko lost the case, so HG got a small cut.
Zero got brought over without HG's consent and they were threatened with a huge lawsuit if they tried to fight it so they just said "We give you the right."
Right, because the BBB is an upstanding and worthy organization. Most people who want to complain to them are angry types who complain just to complain.
But yeah, I think people are far more butthurt than they need to be about the whole saga. What do they want, a live webcam feed to what's going on in the factories?
>>Zero got brought over without HG's consent and they were threatened with a huge lawsuit if they tried to fight it so they just said "We give you the right."
I though Harmony Gold was willing to allow Zero brought over, only for Big West to put the kibbosh on that?
>>What do they want, a live webcam feed to what's going on in the factories?
You really don't understand the reason why the backers are angry. First off, Palladium has never been truthful about the situation of Wave 2. If you read most of their updates, it's either a vague 'we're doing something with Wave 2 but we won't tell you any details' or condescending 'you should be happy that we're actually working on the minis'. Aside from that, they are now calling the fans, who just wanted to know where their money went, as nagging cry babies. The fact that they are 2 years late, going three next year, and not admitting that they made a huge oversight, shows how unprofessional they are, and deserves what's coming to them.
Trust me, I backed at the Battle Cry level. I'm waiting for my shit too. On the other hand, I'm not the type who really cares where my money goes- I actually do trust Palladium on a certain level. Not to deliver a product on time, they've never pulled that off with anything, but at least they deliver in the end.
I am no fan of Macek, but Robotech is far from his only success. I'd even go as far as to say his work at Streamline Pictures and his role in the dub of Akira are more important than his work on Robotech.
We have not had a significant update since fucking February on the status of Wave 2. They just have posted the old renders from the Ninja Division and whined that the backers are mean.
The fact that they're based in Mexifornia means it's only a matter of time before the big one sends them out into the Pacific.
Casshan: Robot Hunter also turned out pretty good.
I don't know. The main series seems pretty grimdark to me. By the New Generation humanity is on it's way to becoming the Zentraedi, a highly militarised, space faring race that is willing to do repeat what Dolza did to Earth in order to 'cleanse' it from alien influence.
Listen Fan-Friend, that post was so full of shit the Ganges River has nothing on it.
It was Kevin whining that the backers were being mean because he's a sack shit, lying or otherwise. He then goes on to shill non-kickstarter related shit. Then back to whining that getting a product to market is hard, that he has no clue how shit works, and is full of unreasonable expectation. The renders posted were the same ones Ninja Division had during the campaign so there no real update on the progress.
I hope you have your wallet open because the "Crisis of Kharma" is brewing, Tricky Ricky's lawlsuit is probably going to kill PB.
>a highly militarised, space faring race
Nothing wrong with that
>willing to do repeat what Dolza did to Earth in order to 'cleanse' it from alien influence.
You got to do what you got to do.
>By the New Generation humanity is on it's way to becoming the Zentraedi, a highly militarised, space faring race that is willing to do repeat what Dolza did to Earth in order to 'cleanse' it from alien influence.
I think you're jumping the gun a bit.
By the time New Generation starts the Earth has been invaded three times, with the Expeditionary Force making its second attempt at retaking the Earth after getting their asses kicked during their first attempt to retake it from the Invid. Humans were building up their forces to prepare for possible alien attacks when the SDF-1 crashed, and after getting a taste of the devastation of what the Zentraedi could do, they began to expand even more to better prepare and protect themselves.
Now, over the years, military and governmental factions have taken matters into their own hands with extremities such as the Southern Cross Army discriminating against Zentraedi citizens and adding more fuel to the fire on the Zentraedi Uprisings, along with high ranking officials like T.R. Edwards and his colleagues with their xenophobic ideals creeping their way into the Expeditionary Force.
However, for the most part the Earth Government has been keeping its emotions relatively in check and seems to actually be trying to put a stop to the fighting.
Now if they began conquering planets and subjugating alien races out of complete contempt and paranoia for anything remotely non-human, then we can talk.
>what the fuck are you doing reading the comics? Those are ass. Space bear vikings riding giant robot horses!
As I mentioned here >>13449204 the comics are far from perfect and there is going to be some pretty silly/stupid shit you have to work around. I really look at it like the late 70s Battlestar galactica where it had some really neat concepts combined with some serious storytelling, and molded with 80s sci-fi hoakyness. Its all just really fun to read.
By the way, the Karbarrans (bear people race) and Paxians (scantily clad Amazonian women) are apart of the Robotech universe both in the comics and novels. Had the Sentinels animated series actually made it off the ground, they would eventually have worked their way into the show too, space bears, space amazons, and robot horses and all, especially since the comics and books based their drawings and descriptions on the prototype character sheets that were made shortly before the entire project went belly-up.
Hes talking about the Novel Continuity, but I don't know if it was actually 99% of the Zentraedi population even then. I seem to recall most of the Zentraedi either getting wiped out in the Malcontent Uprising, or gone with the REF to Tirol. Breetai definitely had his force of Zentraedi on the expedition.
The Novels are a lot more grimdark than the current "canon", anyway. Unlike the Novel Continuity, the series' canon has Mars and Jupiter being actual full fledged colonies, the REF fleet is massive and has an even more massive space station at Liberty, and has tons of Sentinel allies.
In the Novels, Liberty was destroyed IIRC, the Mars and Jupiter Divisions were just named after said planets rather than being actual colonies, and the REF fleet is much smaller and practically out of resources to operate.
I'd say its a worth while distinction to make between "99% of Zentraedi were wiped out", and "99% of Zentraedi who didn't go with the REF were wiped out".
>they would eventually have worked their way into the show too, space bears, space amazons, and robot horses and all.
Technically the Sentinel races are canon, since they show up in Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles comic. And Robotech fans complain about how unrealistic Macross' Space Vampires when Robotech has Space Care Bears.
Original anon here. I'm also the comicfag who hasn't read the novels yet.
I'm well aware that the series itself is pretty lackluster in the "epic story" department, especially Tommy Yune and all of his revisionist fuckery with the 2002-2006 Wildstorm Comics stuff. From the sounds of things the comics are not far behind from the novels in telling some pretty dark history within the Robotech lore. Even at the beginning of the comics, it depicts the post-SDF-1 crash incident a time of extreme fear and paranoia as not all the nations have willingly combined under the one-unified-government system and macross Island has to deal with public outrage as well as spies, saboteurs, and assassins in response to the arrival and exploitation of alien technology (series made it look and sound like everyone was willingly holding hands all the way). Even with the Expeditionary Force in space and the Southern Cross army in control of the Earth, bands of micronized rogue Zentraedi as well as underground anti-government groups (Souther Cross is known to be pretty tyrannical in their areas of control) are still turning much of the cities and settlements into gun battling hell holes.
And like you mentioned, the Expeditionary force is quite small, with the Sentinels being just a ragtag team of races from conquered planets with no real governmental aor military affiliations of any kind: Really, just rookie freedom fighters.
>Didn't they dress them up in like form concealing robes so you couldn't actually see how dumb they look?
Why yes, they did.
It's even questionable how canon Prelude is. In Shadow Chronicles itself, Louie is surprised to even hear about friendly aliens, the fact that humanity allied with several races in a war against the Invid, and one of those said races helped the REF build it's fleet is completely unmentioned.
I know, but HG doesn't even know what canon is since they keep fucking statistics, characters, and timelines up at any given moment. I wonder if they even realize that by also adopting the Sentintels comics with Shadow Chrinicles, they also incorporate the "Shapings of the Protoculture" (meaning protoculture is 'The Force', for those of you new folks) from the Mckinney novels since the Waltrips adopted it in the Sentinels comics too...so in a sense the comics AND the books are one....Fucking morons.
>And Robotech fans complain about how unrealistic Macross' Space Vampires when Robotech has Space Care Bears.
I really don't understand this behavior either. Both stories have their own share of weird, but they act like their form of 'weird' is far superior than Macross 'weird'. Part of the reason why I can enjoy much of the strangeness in both is because I don't take it as seriously and write it off as part of science-fiction fun. But Robotech fans like to play everything as being "super epic" and love to parade Robotech for its 'amazing dramatic storytelling', but when you bring up the Sentinels, protoculture shapings, and the strangeness of protoculture in general they finally clam up with "Well, it was the 80s, okay!"
Regardless of how fans themselves perceive Robotech canon, Harmony Gold has been really adamant on labeling Prelude as official canon because its supposed to be a set-up to much of Shadow Chronicle's reinterpretation of events.
Of course then you need to take into account that they also say Love Live Alive is canon, even though Lancer's little clip-show history lesson is completely contradicted because Shadow Crhonicles says New Generation ended with just Scott and Ariel concluding the story with the Regiss while Annie, Rand, Lunk, and even Lancer are completely airbrushed from the continuity.....and they actually try to worm Love Live Alive as both a sequel and prequel to Shadow Chronicles.....
I can't even....what are they doing?
>Love Live Alive's retcons are on purpose.
Wait what?...Love Live Alive's retconning of Shadow Chronicle's retcon was done knowingly? Which means Shadow Crhonciles never really happened even though it clearly tries to tie itself in with it? In that case, Shadow Rising isn't going to be canon either?
What's going on?
>What are you fucking talking about? Minor characters didn't appear, so who cares?
....Considering Lancer is the main character of LLA and the one telling the recap, it makes no sense at all. If Lancer was never at the Hive on the day of the assault, then he never met up Sera and got to patch things up with her during the fight, which was the whole point of LLA's ending (we literally went through a whole 1hr 39min film, just so we could see these two hook up...swell). Furthermore it even reveals in the end, where the group is gathering at the camp fire, Scott finishes telling Lancer about the expedition to find the SDF-3, to which Rand replies "So, Lancer, how about it?" which implies some of the New Generation cast will be tagging along for Shadow Rising....So if the entire end scenario of New Generation really took place, then where were these characters since they played no part in conclusion according to Shadow Chronicles?
>LLA takes place before the Shadow Chronicles
Its a prequel in the time Lancer is telling the reporter woman his recount on New generation. It then becomes a sequel to SC because at the very end, Scott is telling lancer about the missing SDF-3 and how the Expeditionary Force is setting up a mission to retrieve it and the Protoculture Matrix it houses. In order for Scott to know this, he would have to experience everything he went through in Shadow Chronicles, which he didn't know anything about the SDF-3 going missing until the middle of the movie...Oops! Guess they shouldn't have put that stupid "next episode" shit at the end of the credits for Shadow Chronicles as if it was a follow-up, huh?
>New Generation ends with full cast of characters wrapping up their stories and witnessing Invid withdrawal from the Earth.
>Shadow Chronicles retcons the ending to focus on the two main characters and completely removes the rest of the cast as if they never existed
>Love Live Alive shows up and suddenly says said characters are canon again and retells events like they were in the original series, with one of the deleted characters as the narrator/main character, while trying to make ties with Shadow Chronicles. Biggest highlight is to bridge a love-tie between main character and his girlfriend (character also omitted) Highlights the rest missing cast as potential characters for SC's sequel
>Everything continues on like nothing happened
>"No problem here."
>Nothing was dumbed down
Ummm? What about the stupid narrator that talks constantly whenever a on onscreen character isn't talking? Or the fact that they shat all over the whole common ancestry between humans and Zentradi plotpoint just to appropriate the term "Protoculture" to mean a fuel source, for no reason?
If they wanted to have that fuel source as a future plot device, why did they have to call it Protoculture? They could've made up literally anything and just put it into the dialogue over some other crap.
Stop pretending Robotech isn't just a cocaine fueled terrible piece of nostalgia. It's not a worthy adaptation.
LLA has to be the most tragic fan-edit tier garbage that has ever been released. People doing stuff on the internet in their spare time are making better re-edits of old anime than the actual production company.
Yet people keeping buying their cheap goods because of some obligation they have as fans of a property that hasn't produced any worthwhile installments in 30 years and at most has a dubious claim to fame.
>so you couldn't actually see how dumb
The irony is that you can't actually see that they don't look as dumb as you think. iirc the big cheesy grin you see is not their actual mouth, it's a respirator. At least according to Palladium Books' REF Field Guide (which I haven't had for years so no pic, sorry)
They're still pretty dumb, they were heavy comic relief.
Are you fucking retarded? Robotech definitely wasn't dumbed down when compared to its contemporaries. It didn't shy away from showing on screen deaths (including the near extinction of humanity) when stuff like Voltron was editing anything that looked like a death to 'hey, it's ok! We got him to the hospital in time!' bullshit. For fucks sake, Robotech showed characters drinking alcohol onscreen and clear sexual innuendo (pretty much any conversation between Roy and Claudia). That kind of shit wouldn't fly today.
The rest of your post is irrelevent 'it's not like it was in Macross, therefore it sucks!' whining. Protoculture was a necessary plot device to tie the 3 series together. Was it stupid? Yeah. Did it work? Suprisingly well, actually. As long as you didn't think about it too hard.
>Robotech definitely wasn't dumbed down when compared to its contemporaries
Who gives a fuck about other showes?
The point is that it's a dumbed down Macross, not that it's a dumbed down Voltron
I wonder what happens to Robotech when the fandom becomes senior citizens? Because I don't know anyone in my age group (25 and under) that knows what Robotech is. It wasn't until I came on /m/ that I found out about Robotech, Voltron, Battle of the Planets, Saber Rider, and Starblazers.
If Robotech continues on at the pace its going I don't think even the oldest of fans will stick around that long. Harmony Gold has lost a lot of public support for their sheer incompetence on managing the franchise and nothing remotely note-worthy has been made on the Robotech name in over 30 years and hasn't gained much new fans since.
They make up the majority of the current fanbase. There's not enough of them to actually lend any worthwhile support for any projects.
Even the Argentinian guy who made that Robotech "Valkyrie Project" fan film couldn't even get them in high-enough spirits to support the Robotech Academy kickstarter.
No wonder HG desperately wants a Robotech movie. It's the only way their rotting corpse of a series can attract fresh blood from mainstream exposure.
I wonder what happens if Japan makes a live-action adaptation of SDF Macross that kicks ass? How would Robotech fans react to that?
The movie is also being made so that they can completely revamp Robotech's origins from scratch. That way, they can finally work around all of the Macross characters and mechs they aren't allowed to use (outside o comics and books which fall under merchandising rights) and create something they can have full control over.
They're finally tired of all the fan-pressure about making stories related to Macross, VF-1's, Zentraedi, and after so many years of lying to people about their legal standing with the material, its really biting them in the ass.
>I wonder what happens if Japan makes a live-action adaptation of SDF Macross that kicks ass? How would Robotech fans react to that?
For Robotech fanatics who want Robotech and nothing but Robotech, they'll likely tear whatever story the film offers apart, claiming how ridiculous [insert trippy Kawamori element here] is while ignoring the sillyness of their own beloved stories. They'll also steal the mech designs to inorporate it in their Robotech head-canon because HG never makes anything new for them, so fuck it.
They also try to turn QUALITY into content.
I think he IS dumbed down.
Though actually they did dial down Macross just slightly. Minmay's "LET'S THROW OURSELVES OUT OF THE AIRLOCK AND DIE TOGETHER" rant while she and Hikaru were trapped in the airlock got changed to "THAT'S ALL JUST SILLY TALK! I'VE GOT TO GET HOME!"
Also Yot-chan doing the peepee dance got changed into Jason throwing a tantrum because he couldn't have a soda.
On the other hand, you still saw Misa's father incinerated before her very eyes, that little girl telling the soldier she's eight years old right before the blast wave hit them, the skeleton of the one Zentradi soldier holding the minmay doll in the desert, and all that. The few things that were "dumbed down" were just superficial fluff to begin with.
Seeing how Yamato got made into a live-action film, I wonder if anyone in Japan wants to do one for Macross? If they get all the principal parties in Japan to unite against Harmony Gold, they could easily win the court case and be able to release it for the international market.
Production order. You probably don't need to watch all of it if you're trying to get prepared for Delta, but since it's not out yet we can't really say for sure. Frontier only really needed the original series, but benefited from knowledge of Zero, 7, and Plus. I expect the new one will be similar.
There's only the original (not really "original", but...y'know...) series, Shadow Chronicles, and Love Live Alive. LLA is basically an HD compilation/recap of the third part of Robotech,
There's also four episodes or so of Sentinels, the original planned sequel to Robotech, but it isn't exactly relevant since pretty much none of the characters in it will ever appear in Robotech again. Changes in the animation market made the cost of production go up suddenly and one of the key backers (mattel, I think) backed out.
I've seen rants where Robotech fans wish that Japan goes under so that HG can swoop in and own all of Macross lock, stock, and barrel. They wouldn't take this too kindly and think that the Japanese are being ungrateful since Robotech supposedly made Macross and anime popular in the West.
>think that the Japanese are being ungrateful since Robotech supposedly made Macross and anime popular in the West
Where the fuck did this come from? Did people magically forget about Speed Racer, BOTP, or Star Blazers?
Pokemon, DBZ, and Sailor Moon were the pioneers in bringing anime to the mainstream.
>and Love Live Alive. LLA is basically an HD compilation/recap of the third part of Robotech
Dude, its the SAME goddamn upscaled footage and sound as the rest of the series on DVD. Quit trying to waste everyone's time with this failed piece of Harmony Gold cash-in trash.
This is really the silver lining to the story. Harmony Gold can't use any of the Macross designs (character or mechanical) in any production if they intend to distribute internatinoally. This means no Hollywood movie, since Japan is the 2nd largest consumer of American films in the world.
For Macross fans, it's not terrible either, since the trend in Japan is to have in-house localization teams and english subs on BRD releases. No need to strike distribution deals, or fuck with international music rights, or license when online vendors will buy your product in bulk and distribute it for you.
I wouldn't be suprised if we get streams of Delta that have conveniently faulty geofencing.
Yeah. My friend is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE macross nut. Like his room is COVERED in Valks and shit. Now he's one of those FUCK ROBOTECH fans. Hardcore. I like Robotech myself but this kid is one of the THOSE kind of anime fans. You know the kind.
Anyways we're talking about Frontier because it just ended and we both mostly liked it but he was making some big hate speech about how HG was making it hard to get Macross stuff.
Im like dude you have HLJ open right now and had like 3 models ordered in the time it took me to take a piss. Yeah shipping sucks but what ya gonna do. What's more who would even sell it really? Hobby shops? Ours orders and sells it anyways at a huge mark up. Toys R Us ain't gonna carry niche anime shit.
>This means no Hollywood movie
They can make a movie, they just can't make an SDFM movie. If it were a live action Mospeada film that only mentioned "Admiral Hunter's fleet" they'd have no legal problems from Kawamori and Co.
Note that when he's showing clips from Valkyrie Project, it doesn't show the VF-1. Harmony Gold, for all their chest pounding, knows damned well they can't even use it in the context of showing off a fan film.
Macross has always been the breadwinner of the series though. When most people think back of Macross they aren't reminicing about Hovertanks and Alpha Fighters.
Besides, the Brand is past it's best before date for a movie. The only people who remember it being on TV are in their late 30's / early 40's now. Hell I'm 34 and the only reason I watched it was because our public library had the entire FHE VHS collection.
That may be true, but it still doesn't mean they *can't* make a movie. They just can't make a *Macross* movie. Saying that a Robotech movie is impossible without Macross is just being myopic Macross nut.
Of course they could, but who would back it? They sure as hell aren't capable of doing it themselves, and their fanbase wasn't even willing to fund academy. The brand recognition alone just isn't there.
>Harmony Gold can't use any of the Macross designs (character or mechanical) in any production if they intend to distribute internatinoally. This means no Hollywood movie, since Japan is the 2nd largest consumer of American films in the world.
Despite what they say, its clearly not their intention to use any material from Macross in the movie. They've already mentioned that they aren't using the VF-1's design because its based on planes they deem "outdated" so they need to be changed. Furthermore they are heavily altering the story under the excuse "well who wants to see that old plot again". Plus, even HG's marketing manager, Kevin Mckeever, admitted at a convention that Sony has the rights to distribute the film internationally EXCEPT in Japan. They're even pretty vocal about gaining an increase in fans in China after a convention tour they did there.
There are quite a number of Robotech fans out there who are willing to throw their money at Robotech, if that Palladium Books kickstarter was any indication. There's just not enough fans who actively support Harmony Gold, with disillusioned South American fans being their only key admirers.
Sony has bought the rights and is making it with their money. Harmony Gold, at most, is merely hanging around the project for consultation if anything else, but they're trying really hard to act like they are in charge of the whole thing. So far the project has managed to get James Wan (Insidious, Fast and Furious 7) as director, as well as two producers and a writer, so it is making better progress than Warner Bros. ever did.
China is the #2 movie market now. It's why Hollywood is busy sucking up to them.
I have zero faith in Sony doing a better job with this than WB. It's tainted goods and needs to be forgotten.
I would go see this in theatres with an open mind. I have some pretty thick nostalgia goggles when it comes to Robotech. However, I have zero faith in it ever coming to fruition the Robotech brand doesn't have the recognition, widespread nostalgia, or merchandising potential of Transformers or GI Joe.
I only meant that they have a better eye on getting it off the ground. This project is so out of shape for any artistic direction that I have no hope for it ever being any good.
It looked like Warner Bros had no idea what they were getting themselves into: I bet they approached Harmony Gold thinking they were going to make a movie of 'Transformers' proportions off of those flying transforming jets and mechs the company was focusing so much attention on, only to realize in development that these people didn't have any permission to use them. Thus, delay after delay of story/conseptual clusterfuck. And the writers,...damn, considering how many of these people came and went on the project, trying to design a considering story from scratch under HG's regulations must've been tough.
If anything, I'm looking to see it out of curiosity on what they manage to make out of this based on what they have permission to use.
In Robotech unlike Macross some places like New York and South America aka South Lands were spared by the Rain of Death. So Robotech would have a higher number of survivors as opposed to Macross' over a million survivors who survived thanks to Grand Cannons, the Moon base and space colonies.
Videogames, comics, books, and toys all fall under 'merchandising' which is granted to them by their distribution rights to the Macross series.
They have no permission to use story elements, characters, mechs, nor terminologies from Macross in derivative works such as television shows nor movies.
And so, both Robotech and Macross fandoms in english speaking countries will die a horrible death due to irrelevance and stagnation; both parties starving from lack of content.
And we will still be flinging shit at each other.
Until the day somebody buys the rights to Robotech and works out a deal with the japanese over macross. Then, with their powers combined, we will get a movie. Hopefully a macross movie.
do we want a movie? I mean you know what's happening to Ghost In the Shell. Do you really want fucking Shia Lebeouf or someone as the hero?
Robotech or Macross it's still gonna get raped out the ass by holywood blockbuster avengers main stream appeal crap
Its more likely that the Robotech fandom will die. Most of their fanbase are the old fans who are 30-40 yo, since Robotech isn't getting any new fans. This is why they are putting all their hope that the live action movie will save the franchise. As for Macross, despite not getting a western release, it still has a strong presence via the internet, so the fandom continue to grow.
>And so, both Robotech and Macross fandoms in english speaking countries will die a horrible death due to irrelevance and stagnation; both parties starving from lack of content.
Speak for yourself Robotechfag. Macross is getting a new TV series, constant merchandise, and video games. Roboshit gets nothing but a supposed movie in development hell.
I'm noticing a lot of comic shops carrying Gunpla Gundam models as well as Patlabor and Mega Man kits and statues, old and new. Even Barnes and Nobles is starting to carry Gundam models. http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/toys-games-gundam-heavyarms-ver-ew-master-grade/26387167
Plus, its' not just figurines that's the problem. For those of us who want high-quality video/movie products with official subs, particularly blu-rays, we can only import the ones from Japan which are not only super expensive because of shipping but also with the fact that Japan releases most series as large collector's edition boxsets that range from $400-$600 (with content all written in Kanji) . Most of them don't even have subtitles (aside from Macross Plus and Frontier).
Before Mobile Suit Gundam's HD release made it to the US, everyone had to buy this gigantic thing:
Now that its regionized, we can purchase it in volumes for less the price and without all the extra crap tacked on.
So all we're stuck with in the meantime, as far as Macross material is concerned, is shitty fansubs or god-awful Chinese/Korean/Malaysian bootlegs.
This is the real reason people hate HG. They wave this flag of creators rights, and talk about how wrong it is that Kawamori can't export to the international market, etc but it's really that you're just mad that you couldn't buy the fucking toy you wanted.
I could respect that if people actually said that they hated HG because they couldn't buy stuff, but everyone supposedly getting mad on Kawamori's behalf is just full of shit. It's pure selfishness.
And I, myself, am selfish. If I get more Mospeada animation I really don't care whether or not you can order an english version of Macross 30. I'm not going to pretend to wave a flag about HG's right to use the license they bought or the legality of their trademarks to cover up for it.
Watch Macross. Robotech is a kinda interesting artifact from a different time, but ultimately kinda meh.
Watch the series first than DYRL. Watching DYRL first will fill you with "What the fuck is going on here?"
>This is the real reason people hate HG. They wave this flag of creators rights, and talk about how wrong it is that Kawamori can't export to the international market, etc but it's really that you're just mad that you couldn't buy the fucking toy you wanted.
>everyone supposedly getting mad on Kawamori's behalf is just full of shit. It's pure selfishness.
Everyone's mad because they can't get the material state-side, period. Its easy for you to say because you can actually buy all the legal merch to Mospeada, including copies of the original show with official subtitles for reasonable prices, and even an unedited copy of Love Live Alive (in the 2013 Robotech Complete Box Set, which is also dirt cheap). In order to even watch most animated Macross stuff, we've had to obtain it by illegal means; Either by downloading it, streaming it, or if your the desperate sort who wants to hold something in your collection, buying bootlegs.
Plus, how is it selfish if you actually want to legally buy something to support the artists you like? We've all had a taste of what these shows were with numerous fansubs and rips, now we actually want to own the real thing with legit visual quality and approved written dialogue that didn't come from some dude who changed shit up a certain way just to make it more 'edgy'. Its perfectly rational to like someone's work and throwing money at some neat stuff in the process.
But all of the legal shit that HG pulls is not only at fault, but its' just fucking tedious. They're not even willing to do anything legit with the shit they actually have permission to use anyway except sell more toys and comics. All of their meddling fuckery just adds more fuel to the fire.
>In order to even watch most animated Macross stuff, we've had to obtain it by illegal means; Either by downloading it, streaming it, or if your the desperate sort who wants to hold something in your collection, buying bootlegs.
Most of /m/ just pirates. Nobody here really buys anything.
It is weird that a lot of Robotech fans are obsessed with just getting more Robotech instead of moving onto other anime or sci-fi series.
I grew up on Deep Space 9 and Babylon 5 as a kid. Those were far better sci-fi stories than Robotech. Legend of Galactic Heroes (which the late Noboru Ishiguro directed) outclasses anything HG produced.
>It is weird that a lot of Robotech fans are obsessed with just getting more Robotech instead of moving onto other anime or sci-fi series.
weirder that Macross fags still bitch about Robotech, especially when Mospeada fans got it worse.
Id say Southern Cross fans got it bad but well..you know
>especially when Mospeada fans got it worse
How so? I thought Mospeada was a stand-alone series that Tatsunoko did? Are they interested in making sequels?
That series had some intriguing concepts, but terrible execution.
If the Transformers movies are any indication, a VF-1 equivalent in a Robotech Live Action might not look anything at all like a VF-1. It could just be vaguely similar in really broad strokes. And bad.
Southern Cross had the most interesting mechanical designs in Robotech, especially the Ajax, Spartas, and Tristar. Some of the side characters were pretty cool too, if a little generic.
The story itself is darker than Macross while not being as camp as Mospaeda, and it really does feel like the Empire Strikes Back of the series.
>Are they interested in making sequels?
That is exactly why we have it worse. Macross fans get Macross sequels. Mospeada fans can only get Robotech sequels, and every time we get our hopes up that there will be new material we get to see Macross fans derail every conversation to the HG/Kawamori rights issue and then rejoice and gloat when it doesn't get made.
I'm 22 and my dad (mid 40s) apparently grew up on Robotech.
I watched the entire original series a couple years ago and loved it.
Just curious, how old are most people in this thread?
I know they came out with a couple movies a few years back as well, so maybe not everyone is older than I.
40 here. I remember seeing Robotech toys in the stores, but it did not air during its first run in either place I was living when it aired. It reran at like 5:30 am but no one I knew watched it. I remember it replacing Johnny Quest in 86 or 87 on the local independent station and seeing the end credits when I got ready for school.
Everyone around me only cared about the Transformers and Voltron.
My first real exposure to what Robotech was about was getting a Palladium RPG book for my birthday. I played Battletech and parents got it for me by mistake. Among my friends we thought Robotech was a Battletech knockoff.
>Japanese music companies are, according to urban legend, all Yakuza operations with incredibly arrogant execs who think that they shit gold
try make some jap song cover in youtube by dance or piano or band or something.
it will get down very quickly
What's funny is that at one point, very early in the concept art, Jetfire in the second TF movie was just going to have his VF-1 design.
I'm morbidly curious as to what a Hollywood VF-1/valkyrie equivalent would be. I'm not as repulsed by modern Hollywood mech design as most people here it seems. A lot of people joke that it'll look like the TF movie Starscream, but I doubt it, as that "dorito" design was mainly to make it look more squat and closer in size with the autobot cars. Besides, we've come along way since 2007 and a lot of mecha in movies avoid the older bayformers look, like Real Steel, Pacific Rim, and even the newer Bay movies look far more streamlined.
>expecting Mospeada installments after 3 decades
You must be drinking the Kool Aid if you think an obscure motorcycle mecha from the 80's is gonna have sequels.
Mospeada doesn't appear on anyone's radar in Japan. Dancougar made more of an impression by having Nova in the 2000's.
That's exactly my point. The only way I ever got to see new footage of Legioss or Mospeada is in Robotech II: The Sentinels and Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles. But there is no possible way to have a Shadow Chronicles thread here, it gets flooded by anti-HG vitriol by (guess who?).
As much as Macross fans like to complain, at least they're getting sequels. I just get to see HG tease a sequel and then watch Macross fans cheer when it doesn't come out.
Oh my god, quit blaming Macross fans for every single piece of Harmony Gold critique that pops up in these threads. It doesn't matter if you're a Macross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada fan; Either way you get fucked, because Harmony Gold is a completely incompetent company that is unwilling to use a substantial amount of their own money for any project lest someone else gives it to them, which is why everything comes out completely half-assed. I'm the Robotech comic fan way above in the early responses, and I've posted what I could about Robotech lore and in-universe material in these discussions on threads like this, and I'm also the one who has been supplying a good portion of the Harmony Gold legal information (with other generous anons) regarding what they can/cannot use in animation projects as well as their past exploits of "can't get shit done". I'm sorry, but even as a Robotech fan, I have nothing good to say about these people.
The truth of the matter is you can't have a single discussion about unfinished/unmade Robotech projects without going into controversial territory because they all boil down to the fact that HG approaches such things with such a cheapskate perspective, they're not going to go out of their way to put time nor effort into anything they propose. Shadow Rising didn't even need to be on hiatus for them to completely side-step it TWICE with a Kickstarter that demanded fans pay off a show for them, and a useless laid-back clip show like Love Live Alive that cost little to nothing to make.
This is also true with their live-action movie proposal because so far all fans can do is speculate on what's going to be in it when/if it gets made. And of course, one of the biggest conversations that's always going to come up is what HG has legal rights on to use in the film and just how are they going to retell Robotech without the Macross saga.
It's funny how many people have an axe to grind against Harmony Gold. I don't play tabletop games but reading about the Battletech fiasco makes me wonder what is up with HG?
Also, I wonder how complicit Tatsunoko is with all this? Because it seems like a US real estate firm is telling a Japanese studio to be complete dicks to Studio Nue, Artland, and Big West. Usually, Japanese companies don't do that because they usually collaborate on future projects and don't burn bridges.
25 here. I vaguely remember Robotech on Cartoon Network in 1998, but I was more interested in Thundercats.
My cousin Ted (37) gave me the Jack McKinney novels for Robotech when I was 10, but I already saw Macross Plus so I didn't see the need for them. Ted was a huge fan of Robotech, Saber Rider and the Star Sheriffs, and Voltron (the one with the vehicles. he hated the lion version).
>be Macross fan
>tell anon to stop complaining about Macross fans constantly whining about HG
>proceed to recite the usual whining about HG
just how are they going to retell Robotech without the Macross saga.
FUCK the mcross saga. I'd rather see post-Invid anyway. Not only was Shadow Chronicles post-Invid using absolutely no Macross designs, but the eternally delayed Shadow Rising and the vaporous Academy were both post-Invid. It is no longer about Macross, fuck off to a Delta thread.
Like it or not, the Macross Saga is the most recognizable part of Robotech. It dominates their merchandise. Even Tommy Yune himself is a Macross fan, that's why he's pushing to turn every Robotech sequel into a Macross wannabe.
You can see it in the whole concept of Robotech Academy. From the design of the new ships and veritechs, you can tell, they were drawing a lot from the Macross Franchise.
My whole point was its not just Macross fans complaining about Harmony Gold. You act like every single Robotech fan enjoys groveling on their knees and sucking HG's cock as they continue to make empty promises while delivering squat and treating the fanbase like shit.
Seriously, people like you are so desperate for new material that you are still hanging over this company's shoulders, hoping that one day they'll do the right thing and give you want you want. Meanwhile, all of us fans who actually know better just sit and wait for another round of "here we go again" as another project falls into hiatus.
Me? I'm happy with what the comics (pre-Wildstorm material) and novels have constructed over the years, particularly since everything was relatively concluded in Mckinney's End of the Circle...But no, HG needs to keep the money flowing so fuck closure; Scrap the continuity of the books and comics, ignore all of the backstories to the aliens, get rid of Haydon and turn the Haydonites Cyclons, give all the women large breasts, do anything to keep the story senselessly going!
>FUCK the mcross saga. I'd rather see post-Invid anyway. Not only was Shadow Chronicles post-Invid using absolutely no Macross designs, but the eternally delayed Shadow Rising and the vaporous Academy were both post-Invid. It is no longer about Macross
The whole point of the movie is to revamp the story and start anew, as in not continuing from previous installments, which means no "post-Invid". I'm not saying the whole fucking franchise needs to keep leeching on Macross to survive, I'm saying its a very major part of the Robotech story that everyone remembers and enjoys and that's exactly what a lot of other Robotech fans are looking forward to when they hear about this movie; No really, look on HG's Facebook, look at the comments to every vid on youtube that spreads news about this project, look in RobotechX. They're all looking for Rick Hunter, Zentraedi, and VF-1's.
Would you like cheese with your whine?
You might prefer The. Mospeada portion of RT, but most die-hard fans want to see the Macross aspects again.
I'm a huge fan of Dragonar and I doubt we'll ever see a sequel despite being in SRW and the ACE games. But you don't see me bellyaching.
This is why Robotech and its fandom is ridiculed by the anime community. They want their Americanized filter of mecha anime, but can't bring themselves to break free of HG's promises and shitty work.
For fuck's sake, throw in the towel and call it quits. Santa Claus isn't real and you need to move on.