So a long while back I posted some questions regarding what happens if you try to hang a pony.
Some anon mentioned that horses' arteries and veins run differently in their neck than humans', preventing them from passing out from a blood choke when they're hanged like humans often do, meaning nothing but ol'fashioned strangling for them.
So did that go anywhere? Are they more or less susceptible to a blood choke?
Going with the headcanon they're about 3'6", and only weigh as much as a human or so (they're not nearly as stocky as those Shetland ponies)
Here's to our old friend
I think Cadence should get Flash Sentry to personally pull the lever
Frosty white hills in the background. Snow. It's cold.
Well sometimes, yeah. Horse necks are very strong though. It's questionable whether you could pull that off with ponies.
Sometimes, though, little to no drop is used. It takes extra effort to get the drops right. It's a lot easier to just kick a stool out from under them, pull a plank away, etc. and not have to build a gallows as high or find a place for it. If you don't care about being humane, or you intentionally want them to suffer more, then it works just as lethally that way so long as you leave them up there for more than an hour.
20 minutes is almost always more than enough. Seconds to pass out, maybe minutes, but only about 5-15 minutes to die. An hour is just for really good measure.
Also IRL if you get the drop wrong, and it doesn't break their neck, it can still tear flesh and make the whole experience far, far more violent, horrific, and painful than if you'd used no drop at all - which for humans, typically makes them pass out pretty quickly.
Hunting down some sources now. I have the copypasta, but it's really long.
Hey, look, links:
References to Vagal reflex:
Reddit stories of suicide attempts:
The old thing that claims that hangings were pretty merciful:
We have lots of ponies hanging, but we seem to have distinct lack of Rarity hanging. She's such a pretty jewel, she needs some love. S5 even gave us a plausible premise for her to off herself with a noose.
Thats a more modern take on it
Old school hanging, especially in antiquity, was all about strangulation and a rather slow death. Most of the "gallows" were just tree limbs and the condemned were either kicked off short stools or even hauled up by the neck from the ground.
Also ponies have massive, massive necks compared to their overall weight and body mass. There is no way you are breaking their necks on a drop unless its from bungie jumping height.
TLDR no matter how you hang a pony, its going to be a pretty cruel death. There won't be anything quick about it
I just ballpark a human's weight for simplicity's sake, possibly even a bit lighter, based off of how nimbly they can jump around and their own weight doesn't seem to injure them as much (ie, falls and impacts where inertia is your enemy don't seem to hurt them as much as humans, indicating that they're lighter).
People sometimes refer to Shetland ponies' weights, but I think our littler ponies are much lighter: they don't look nearly as stocky, plus if they did weigh as much as a Shetland pony, I don't think they'd be nearly as nimble.
"But I didn't listen!"
And so Starlight had him hanged from a tree.
Poor Party Favor... He was rather cute for a stallion.
Well, let's say 112 lbs...for a human that would require 10 ft of rope for a long drop and 8 ft for a short drop gallow. 9 ft would be the average so that is a possibility. Basically we have 8, 9, or 10 feet plus variation since we are working with ponies.
Not nearly enough force. Especially if you lift them up, or get them in a sitting position, first, like Derpy, here, or even better yet like this:
No, their necks are nearly as thick as the rest of their torso and even more muscular, you'd just draw them vertical
I think you are underestimating how thick their necks are relative to their bodies and how strong the connective/insulating tissue and muscles there are
You could definitely do it quickly but like I said you would have to drop them from a pretty extreme height
*Addendum: I'd imagine you'd almost universally get them in a sitting position first, since with pones you can't really tie their hooves behind their back effectively, this would be the next best thing as you could tie their forearms to their body in that pose, preventing them from reaching up to the rope as they struggle, or doing any gross death arm position stuff.
Still doesn't take into account their stronger necks. It'd take some difficulty to erect a gallow to do that kind of drop...
Not pony, but check out that palate of cement blocks. Now imagine you're using a tight, stiff rope with just about zero elasticity. Now drop the weights from even higher.
Snap! That's going to be a LOT of force. That could do it. They'd probably do some math, get a table of drops, then tweak it for refinement from experience.
At that point why not just build a guillotine?
Really though if for some reasons pony ever needed a means of capital punishment I am sure they have access to magic that could do the job much cleaner and quicker than traditional methods
It's a story where Twilight's taking one for the team, for Equestria. Most ponies don't want her dead, but because of international politics and shenanigans she's submitted herself for execution, anyways, in order to prevent a war. So she gets a salute.
Because guillotines mutilate the body and are very bloody.
If the hanging properly breaks the neck, then it should theoretically throw the pony into shock which renders them more or less numb to pain, anyways, making it a relatively painless/instant death (even though it /technically/ takes 5-15 minutes for brain death to occur)
I'm flattered, but unfortunately none of it is published yet, it's still a WIP. School's being super tough right now, but I'm hoping to get it going for write month.
The most appropriate execution device for a pony would be a gun, naturally
Well unless you have ponies from the royal artillery doing the necessary calculations for each reverse hanging, you are going to be beheading ponies either way.
I suspect they would just rig up some kind of magic circle that is capable of instant death when activated. That or something that teleports them into nonexistence/a location that results in an instant kill, something along those lines. The horses have access to powerful magic, which is something we never did when designing our means of execution.
Something along those lines at any rate.
I suppose the problem is figuring out the drop height for a horse. Seeing as how human decapitation happens every now and then
in sandnigger countries, what did you expect, it can take a bit of trial and error. (Then again, decapitation is as humane as breaking the neck, so you can't really go wrong with adding more rope.)
Strangulation might be more common nowadays, since most hangings are suicides, which generally use a lower drop (or no drop at all).
sources: my ass
Ok first off horses can be hung and choked out by rope. It's why they have breakaway lead ropes in trailers because if they fall while in motion they won't be able to get back up in such a confined placed. Also, falling like that means their neck will be snapped or god forbid the leads get wrapped around their neck.
In fact my aunts horse killed itself by running into a pillar after eating grass seed and had a violent expansion of gas in its stomach.
I imagine if it were a strictly pony affair, Luna or Celestia could be designated executioners for
1) The fact that they're the ones doing it ensures they review the case and nothing gets done under their nose,
2) A good leader will not ask their subjects to do things they wouldn't do themselves sort of deal,
3) They're the most powerful wizards, who can be trusted more with the kind of dark and powerful magic that would be involved in an execution method?
4) Tying back to 2, kinda, it makes sure that they wouldn't ask any pony dead that they aren't willing to look in the eye, themselves, and hear their appeal.
Method: probably in private, some chamber, maybe even make them comfortable, face them, last words, last conversation sort of deal and then; "close your eyes, and bow your head when ready."
Spell instantly shuts off all brain activity, and fries the brain for good measure. Instant painless death with no visible damage to outside body; they just fall over. Could even imprint their brain data in a gem or something so they can be brought back later if found innocent after the execution.
That's the most humane way possible, IMO, the most "like Equestria" I can imagine.
Might delegate it to Luna, though, personally I'd fear it'd make Celestia too callosed to have to do this for every death sentence - though perhaps its best that way, somewhat forces death sentences to be very rare, possibly even only at the request of the condemned.
This thread was really more about the physics of hanging, though, than death sentence in general. Really research for writing. My scenario involves international politics that muddle the issue so it's not really done in an Equestrian-preferred way.
Thing about real horses is that they're absolutely massive. Tremendous amount of inertia to hurt themselves with. See this post: >>25341169
>a strictly pony affair
Thats a good point, I was assuming we were talking ponies executing ponies. Other cultures executing poneis? That could be pretty nasty, depending on their outlook on pony civilization.
But pony on pony? Yeah I definitely see them using magic, and using it in a way that distances themselves from it as far as possible. Something quick, humane, and fairly hooves-off.
I don't see the princesses doing it themselves though. They have better things to do than be seen as executioners, and ponies are not a militant culture that would appreciate the direct approach from their leaders. Not to imagine the effect it could have on dealing with other cultures.
Hah! Crazy realization. I've had this picture for a really long time. I always thought that was Nightmare Moon in the background, teaming up with Chrysalis or something. The rest of the context was pretty clear, and the artist put it in the description:
>Twilight gets separated from friends in maze in "Return of Harmony"
>Re-unites with "friends" who act completely different
>Shrugs it off and assumes the maze is just getting to their heads, never considering they might be changelings or something
>Chrysalis does something similar and fools Twilight into thinking she's with her friends.
I just realized, though, that that's definitely NOT Nightmare Moon - that's Luna. So suddenly that angry look takes on a whole new meaning - she's about to unleash a world of hurt on Chrysalis, I'd assume. Sweet salvation.
Relevant link is relevant: https://www.derpibooru.org/616158
I dunno. If I were in Equestria, and I had to pick anyone to be my executioner, I'd pick one of the princesses, hooves down, if I could. It seems by far the most humane thing. Perhaps if the condemned asks for it they could.
Life and death are intimate, personal things. If I had to have mine ended early, there's nopone I'd rather have do it than the ones I trust and respect most in a leadership position like that. Luna seems the ideal giver of law, given how formal and seemingly by-the-book she can be, but then also, Celestia, seems the most kind and gentle to make "doing what must be done" as gentle as possible.
I mean, if there's any beings anywhere who could convince me that the right thing is being done with my sentence, and who's significant presence could bring me comfort in that situation, that I could feel like I could talk about my preferred method to, make appeals to, or even just simply apologize to if I had done some terrible crime worthy of it - then it's those two.
Even if I had done some terrible crime, it's those two who I feel their presence would help most with gathering the courage to face penance. And if I hadn't, then I'd trust nopony else more to hear my case and/or pleas more.
An elephant was once hanged for killing a civilian at a circus via railroad crane car. It basically was lifted up and eventually its own weight snapped it's neck. Took an awful while though.
Good gravy. It's own weight snapped its neck despite it being slowly lifted? I suppose that's not too surprising, though, considering it was a flippin' elephant...
Not quite a pony, but interesting. As I wrote here, I imagine ponies are only as heavy as humans, or even lighter. >>25341169
The thing of curiosity is, though: didn't it strangle it? Or cut off blood flow? Was its neck so thick that it did neither???
A somewhat horrifying thought is that perhaps pony's necks are so strong the rope would make them struggle to breath, but not cut off breathing completely. The result of that is an even longer, agonizing death where a pony could struggle, writhe, desperately peddling for footing as they choke for up to twenty minutes or more, because they're not getting enough air, but getting just enough to keep them from passing out quickly. Eventually, then, they grow too tired to keep fighting and their reflexes can't overcome their exhaustion, and they start to slowly suffocate, something almost like the slow, torturous death of a crucifixion, only not quite as extreme.
...The process could be made more equine by shackling large weights to their hooves, making the rope choke tighter, thus knocking them out more quickly... Or, as mentioned before, perhaps they could be strapped to a chair or something, then the noose placed with pulleys and counterweights on the far side, allowing the executioner(s) to determine how much force the pony is choked with, instead of it just being their own weight.
While I never want to see a noose in MLP
hanging gives me the chills, even though other execution methods don't bother me, I would like to see magic strangling, maybe in one of the two-parters or the EQG films. Imagine Sunset Shimmer being lifted by the ground as she grasps at her neck, similar to force choking.
You mean like this attached image, or the image for this post? >>25342571
And with that I think I've dumped most of the art I wanted to...
Dat story. Disturbed me deeply. Picked it apart. It helped a little.
Still has the big problem of the author never finding a good enough reason for Twilight to do it. Pretty much I think it was just a fetish story.
A) Luna was a threat to Equestria, in which case Twilight would probably have said something before just murdering her, warned Celestia, etc, and even if not, she would've had some justification/defense,
B) Twilight was delusional, in which case she'd also defend herself, but then she'd end up in a mental hospital, not put to death, or
C) Twilight was OoC.
Pretty much C no matter what, though...
On the wiki, listened to an audio thing, didn't find anything about Mary not choking and not dying until her own weight snapped her neck, though.
Autoerotic asphyxiation is actually a rather common fetish: lack of oxygen to the brain creates a "high." The struggle, pain, tension, and the adrenaline rush of struggling against the ropes while strangling is also physiologically extremely similar to the moments leading up to orgasm, both in bodily convulsions, emotional intensity, adrenaline rush - even to the point of pupils dilating, feet wiggling/clenching and unclenching, etc. etc.
Some sources say and/or imply that it wasn't actually uncommon for the condemned to wet themselves with more than just urine, and there's the "death erection..."
Now you know! :D D: :D D:
Drat. This would've been a better image to go with that post.
That depends on the crime. As a POW? Sure, makes sense to fight, although the idea of being a POW means you're completely broken in spirit. Otherwise, if it's something entirely your fault, there's really no reason to lash out.
A) You're actually guilty of something, in which case there's an interesting psychological effect of everyone around you condemning you, and you start to, at some level, agree that you should die, and you don't want to hurt the guards and others who are just doing their job,
B) You're innocent, in which case inflicting violence on others in an attempt to escape would only work against the "I'm innocent" plea/image you're constantly trying to put out.
Finally, in EVERY situation, there's just the; "why bother?" aspect of it. Why expend the energy to fight hard when you're just going to die, either way? The guards have overpowered you, and you're always in a position where they can easily do it again. Going along just makes it easier for them and yourself.
Plus, the anxiety and depression/fear of an oncoming execution, and despair at being sentenced, captured, etc, usually makes that "giving in" thing a lot stronger, even.
For some individuals, though, their will will be strong enough that they fight. Then you get this image. Or this video:
It's about deterring crime. Make it so that doing things you don't want the populace to do, results in things happening to them that they don't want to have happen to them, so they don't do the things.
That, and sometimes people who are guilty feel a need or desire to pay penance. I imagine that's pretty rare, though, but knowing you've done something like murdered someone might just eat you up inside. You thought running over your neighbor's kid's dog was a guilt trip...
Probably a lot of it has to do with the difference in-between imagining being in the situation, and actually being in it. It's probably pretty overwhelming and surreal. That might really throw things out of whack for you.
You may be one of those few who might freak out and lash out like the fictional Shirley Bellinger I linked above, it's just those are rather rare, I'd think.
>Some sources say and/or imply that it wasn't actually uncommon for the condemned to wet themselves with more than just urine, and there's the "death erection..."
...And that's where mandragora is said to grow.
I noticed using ponies to talk about such a grisly topic makes it strangely more... palpable. Like the thought of being executed by a pony doesn't rile me up as would another human.
Also probably works a little bit like rape: getting dominated has that sort of effect that just makes people submit. It's stronger in realization than in expectation.
And I think denial is very, very strong the entire time. Part of the surreal feeling overwhelmed is the inability to process, never mind accept, what is happening. That's why some people are able to be calm right up to the gallows and then freak out, and why Twilight in The Hanging of Twilight Sparkle was relatively calm until the reality of the situation pulled tight around her neck, at which point she panicked and couldn't accept death, desperately hoping in vain for a rescue.
I think he means getting executed BY a pony, not executing a pony.
I have to agree. Honestly the guy holding the noose creeped me out more than the noose itself in that Shirley Bellinger video. I can't stand those fat beaurocrat-type government workers. The fact that HE'S one of the ones in the process would honestly be one of my biggest qualms.
Celestia, Luna, or even most of the ponies for that matter, though? I'd be more willing to submit to them, certainly a lot less prone to lash out against them.
The irony being that humans might send you to ponies, but heavens' knows where you'll end up dying in pony-world.
Oh. Oops. Yeah, I completely misinterpreted that.
Getting executed by the pony? Yeah, I can see just giving up to that. Especially one of the alicorn sisters; if someone that tolerant and forgiving has condemned you to death, you know you really done fucked up.
...plus I can't help but think they'd try to comfort the condemned. Especially Celestia.
Either that or you've found your way into their secret BDSM sessions.
Note: immortals only. No ponies allowed who can actually die through normal means.
I assume instead of actual hanging they would have a sort of spell to do the job and avoid any trauma. The magic could be concentrated on your throat and slowly choke you out. If you thrash and fight it will be painful, but giving in gets it over with quickly. You would also have the option to stand or kneel.
Personally I'd honestly opt for suspension. You get to basically go limp like you're lying down, but you're upright.
...It's probably a lot more painful than I'm imagining, heh.
Fun fact: one of the reasons there's this common conception that the hanged wet themselves, is that in England, they usually stopped by a pub on the way and let the condemned drink, possibly even get drunk? Calms the nerves, help numb the pain. I can easily imagine the princesses offering something like that.
And yeah, though, urinating and defacing will happen unless you've been starved for 8-24 hours or something in that neighborhood, and haven't been given a drink in the last, oh, say, 6 or so. Even if you thought your bladder and/or bowels were empty, you'll probably find stuff that you didn't know was there. With humans, the problem is largely mitigated by the fact that we normally wear clothes, anyways, and usually that's enough. With ponies, on the other hoof, they'd probably need to be diapered, then maybe given a little skirt or something for some shred of dignity, assuming they don't want to die thirsty and/or hungry.
I think it can be a few things. For some, there is a finalness to it. There is a closure...all of the appeals are done. It's in the hands of whatever lies beyond at that point. So you just go to it.
For others, it is certainly just a sign of defeat...there is no hope, just go to it with dignity.
And for others still, it was a way of thumbing their nose at the whole thing. If you go to your death with dignity and honor, there was some sort of personal moral victory to it.
One of my favorite stories was of William Kemmler, the first man to be executed by electric chair...he is literally the guinea pig that this device is going to be tested on...anything could go wrong (and, unfortunately for him, it did). He calmly walked into the room, introduced himself to the witnesses and said "Gentlemen, I wish you all good luck. I believe I am going to a good place, and I am ready to go." Then sat in the chair joking "Take it easy and do it properly, I'm in no hurry."
Guys like that I can get behind. One English author to be beheaded, can't remember his name off the top of my head, but he was a great one. He approached the axe, idly ran his finger over the blade, "Ah, the executioner's blade... The physician to cure all ills."
Or that one general, who, when told they were completely surrounded, answered; "Good. That simplifies the problem. We can shoot them in all directions."
Makes me wonder, though, did he plea innocent? Stuff like that is rather disconcerting.
Strange thought about that. Yeah, it'd be more 'humane' ('equine'?) to do it with something that can choke off the blood flow quickly and without trouble. Much less chance for something to go wrong, much less risk.
On the other hand, though, remember that magic is just another part of their mind to them. Killing someone like that is akin to you choking someone to death with your bare hands. You can't tell me they did that numerous times and weren't a little creeped out by it; there's a reason executioners tend to get detached from their jobs.
Nah, Kemmler more or less was convicted rather quickly of killing his wife with a hatchet. He never appealed the verdict instead choosing to appeal the method of his execution. His lawyers suggested that electrocution, since it was never tested before was cruel and unusual. They pushed for either life in prison or, failing that, death by hanging. Unfortunately, at this point in time in NY, we were making a name for ourselves botching hangings and popping people's heads off.
The most amazing part of the whole thing is how people begin arguing about what current should be used in the electric chair. Edison argues that Westinghouse's AC is incredibly dangerous demonstrating it by killing cats, dogs, horses and an elephant. When asked by the NY death commission what cause of death should be listed as on the condemns death certificate, Edison smiled and said "Death by Westinghousing". Westinghouse, not one to like seeing his technology used to kill people personally funded Kemmler's, albeit failed, appeals. It is actually a pretty amazing story.
My 2 cents: >>25341543
You make a good point about magic possibly being a little too hands-on, though.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, though, a properly done long-drop hanging is actually one of the most humane methods: >>25341361
I believe it was Albert Pierrepoint who became so detached that he actually made the job efficient. At one point he hanged a man in seven seconds. The man came out of his cell, onto the trap, slipped the noose and cap and was down...all in a little over 7 seconds...
Why did he say he thought he wasn't guilty of anything terrible, then? Murdering one's wife is typically a not-very-nice thing to do.
Also, further thought: drowning. Apparently once water is breathed in, it's actually extremely placid/calming, though up to that point can be just as panicky as any other asphyxiation method.
To be honest, I don't really know much about it, except that tales of the experience relate that it's just as panicky as you'd expect at first, but then once you breath the water in, it's just tingly and oddly calm, serene, peaceful, and even euphoric. Makes sense, in at least one regard; your body doesn't detect and panic from a lack of oxygen in the blood, it detects and panics due to a buildup of CO2 in the blood, and I think this effectively lets you dump CO2 from your lungs... Just not get oxygen.
Also for this reason inert gas asphyxiation is probably the most humane.
As for twitches and all: full body restraints aren't uncommon for execution, though, but it might make the execution appear a bit grizzly.
I don't like the idea there's a spell that can kill you dead on the spot. Way too unsettling that it even exists. That's why I went with a generic telepathic choke, one you could fight against if you really wanted to.
I've talked to someone who nearly drowned.
It's peaceful once you get the water in and fully flooded. Up until then? It's the lease peaceful thing you can imagine. He said it was the most insanely terrifying thing he'd ever experienced, a complete and overwhelming terror that overrode everything else. Then the water starting to get into his lungs, and it hurt like hot iron in them - and all the while he was still trying to get up to the surface, but his limbs locked up at this point (apparently because his body was focusing everything onto pointlessly trying to force the water free and clear, except it couldn't so his lungs just kept spasming madly.
I stand corrected. Thanks for the eye-opening info.