I know we are inundated with noided ARG threads right now, but I want to have a serious discussion about Death Grips using only inferences we can make from the facts, lyrics, interviews, art, etc.
The group has gone now gone on record acknowledging that Death Grips was, from it's inception, a conceptual art piece.
What does it mean? What is the concept?
There is a lot to discuss already without speculating about Jenny Death. Some things for example:
The films I-Be Area and Center Jenny, do we really understand them?
Zach has said the band is highly interested in the concept of acceleration, what exactly does this mean?
Zach has said the band is about engaging with technology in a primitive way. What does he mean? What is the role of primitive and natural humanity in the internet age? What was up with his dick on the album cover?
Lets try and figure out Death Grips from an academic perspective.
The said they are at their best and that's why they are stopping. They said they are motivated by their own internal negativity and they focus on turning it into something positive. Perhaps they are done with Death Grips in the way a patient might be done with therapy. They are now at their personal best and the negativity that fueled the group's creativity has been resolved.
this theory puts this line in perspective.
>I was conceived, by my disease
I think it is not an unlikely theory. they started the group when they were broke and probably not very happy. If they resolved the things that made them angry in the first place then if would be phoney to continue. They would be putting on an act, just to keep getting money, but they clearly don't have interest in that seeing how they give away their music. If they changed their sound to fit their new healed themselves the it wouldn't be Death Grips anymore, so the only logical thing to do is rip it up and start again.
why does no one want to have an inteligent conversation about DG? Would everyone really rather sit and trade arbitrary album rankings and jerk it over the cryptic nonsense they send each other to pretend there's an ARG?
Where is the demographic between /lit/ and /mu/ and Death Grips fans?
i think TMS has a lot to do with the film I Be Area. lines like, "I got all the coconuts bitch" make way more sense if you've seen that film. In general it could be about the internet and world of digital communism that has been growing. What I mean is, everything in for free on the internet, you can just walk in and download all the media you want, even tools in the form of programs. It is a store where you walk in and you are given money.
But what is the price of this? your data. they get inside your area.
when you come out your shit is gone. going outside is going online and when you go online you lose yourself because you become part of the digital communist state where people take your data and profit off you. Governments are watching.
Idk I'm brainstorming here, but I think overall we have underestimated the importance of the films I Be Area and Center Jenny. They are both dense as fuck and probably the only thing outside of Jimi Hendrix that we know has had direct influence on the band, probably the biggest external influence.
The dick on the cover was a way to confront everyone with homosexuality which is something rap is usually negative about. That was on Wikipedia iirc. The actual reason was to stir up controversy and get people spamming/arguing about it because it gets them attention.
i'm sick of people saying shit like this about them. If they really wanted money or attention they could have a 100 time more than they do. If they were shallow like that they could stick with a label and get made bigger than Kanye. They didn't do that because they don't give a shit about money or attention. They only care about their art. Hate them because you think their art is shit, that's fine, but don't decry their integrity as artists, because they have a fuck of a lot of it.
all you kids need to go outside.
money store, please.
its like you've never hung out on a street or in a city.
go read a burroughs book if you aren't gonna go get high.
at least be in the room if you've never participated.
but still, I guess I love you all for who you are.
as you were.
I'm interested in discussing, just my gf is here and I can't just sit on my phone. I'm sure someone will show up to discuss.
Personally, i believe on of the bands themes/intents were to break expectations/to have none. In the p4k interview, they touched on that. But that's something they really wanted to drive home. Expect nothing.
well it is made by the same guy they worked on I Be Area with, and the fact that the film is called Center Jenny and the last album is called Jenny Death is not a coincidence. Just use Occam's razor. Is it more likely that they both separately choose the name Jenny without being aware of each other or that it was intentional? Have you seen I-Be Area? if you haven't watch that film some time and then listen to the money store after and it will make a lot more sense. What did you think I'm in your Area was about? We got all the coconuts bitch!
According to the few interviews that they've given, Death Grips was created out of a dark place/a low point for all members of the band. Zach Hill was probably feeling stuck creatively, Ride was looking for new avenues of creation outside of painting. He had experiences with rapping with Fyre. I don't know flatlander's background or his reasoning for founding the group. But there is a video in which he expresses anger/dissatisfaction at a new building complex. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nutVnGfTFg)
So they started making music as an outlet for their emotions/experiences. These experiences, along with the drugs, their backgrounds, and general ethos behind them created a series of dark and mysterious albums/creation that only sought to alienate themselves from the society they despised. Instead, their creation was heralded by pompous middle class white folk, rich music executives, and the torchbearer of the modern music industry as genre breaking music that raised the bar. By putting out their music into the digital communist "market" that is the internet, they became famous.
Still, a distinction must be made. There was a certain kind of evolution to their methods. They started off small, doing in house punk shows. Barely a year later, they got picked up by a big record company. DG expressed optimism/excitement over their partnership, but the group eventually moved on. Maybe they got tired of the media, always having to explain themselves, taking the traditional route a lot of bands take in which they get on camera or get interviewed and forced to speak for themselves. Why not drop that and let the music and their actions speak for themselves?
>But there is a video in which he expresses anger/dissatisfaction at a new building complex. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nutVnGfTFg)
This seemed like a joke video for the first half
Then again, I can't tell if Andy is that autistic or it's just his sense of humour.
I started typing out a continuation of my response, but I noticed a fatal flaw in my thinking.
The thing about Death Grips is that they're so contracting in their explanations and actions.
I think that they sought to connect with fans, through the ARG/online actions, but when they saw the true face of their fans at concerts, they probably grew conflicted. So they then decided to test/challenged their fans. First they cancelled tours. Then they made a social media site. Then they put their instruments on stage and played their music from an ipod on stage. Their next albums became more abstract. Eventually, they must've realized that they were getting nowhere with their fans. There wasn't any communication, the only way they partook in the art/their act was by mere consumption, repetition of their ideas/lyrics, and seeking deeper meaning from their actions online.
Do y'all have any rebuttals/responses about what I wrote?
I've been studying/tracking the band for a while, and they're fucking impossible to even define, analyze and predict. The only thing we know for sure is that they do things their way when they feel like it.
I've never really thought about it from that angle before. I didn't know the details about the show with the suicide note. I am beginning to think you may be on to something though. That maybe part of the group was wanting to make other people's lives better by encouraging them to be creative. It would explain why they gave away the stems to their albums.
well there is a primary ethos behind all of it
the content of DG's lyrics and visual aesthetics was all about alienation in a post-internet age
this must play into how they decanted their releases and live shows to fans in some way
>there's no one single narrative
perhaps, but perhaps not. their final note said that it was a conceptual piece from the beginning to the end and that suggests at least some kind of over arching theme or vision.
But the concept of alienation is ironic when it comes to the post internet age. We broadcast everything we think, do, and say to the ether in hopes of attracting attention towards ourselves. Sure, there's only the hollow semblance of communication going on, but is there any real connection going on besides mere words?
>i wouldn't reduce that to their relationship with fans
I completely agree. I think this theory>>48008366
makes more sense though it is incomplete.
The thing about their relationship with their fans is just I think part of the message maybe. That the way out of our collective alienation and back to ourselves and each other is through creativity. That it doesn't matter how you do it or who you are, you can do something as simple as picking up a microphone and yelling. They are trying to get us to reconnect with a primal part of ourselves that is more real that the technology we are surrounded by.
What the fuck bro, I checked out a clip of that I-Be Area film you mentioned and that is some fucked up shit. In what way is that related to Death Grips? I'm genuinely curious, like do you have a source or are you talking out of your ass
this is pure speculation but i wonder if ride's moms name was Jenny. since the lyric in big dipper about his dead mothers ashes blowing across his jeans. that was the first real glimpse i feel like we have had into a real personal issue. it might be too straighforward for them but idk.
Zach and Ride helped make the film and they sampled it in one of their songs, I think it was on the EP. Seriously, watch the film. All the lines that sound just silly like the bitches how to swim, coconuts, etc. make sense. The whole song, In Your Area, and possibly most of TMS is about that film.
Death Grips represent a time before language or technology, which is our unconscious, attempting to function in the chains of an over-developed society. This is the message of "Guillotine"--- the individual restrained by static, by the seatbelt, by monotonous civilization.
Freud thought that before language, we were telepathic, because we were so innately connected by our unconscious that we didn't need it. Technology was invented to categorize and suppress true existence. Death Grips are about living this unconscious, gut-based existence *despite* technology.
Read their interviews.
>the fact that the film is called Center Jenny and the last album is called Jenny Death is not a coincidence. Just use Occam's razor.
why would it not be a coincidence? occam's razor tells me it is, because i don't need to make further assumptions
I want to watch it now but I'm kinda high and the bit I seen almost freaked me out. Don't know if I can stomach it right now. But I am curious, watching Center Jenny now
Any more info on Trecartin DG link is welcome
it's all about the internet. People switch identities at a whim, everyone's obsessed with image, everything is cut quickly and moves ultra fast, you only see each shot for a few seconds, lines are given in snippets like tweets.
There's more to it, but basically, it's a reflection of our society. It's way deeper than just a comedy film although it is funny.
they are personal friends with the guy who made the film, they directly reference I-Be Area at least twice in their music before in @deathgrips and in the song In Your Area. Not to mention they helped make that film. Think about it. It really is highly unlikely that the two things are not related. They could name their album anything and they choose Jenny. If we have had a chance to view Center Jenny then surely the band has. They didn't just choose the name Jenny randomly, it is connected to the movie.
Keeping all of whats going on in here in mind what do you guys think of the reaction that's occuring on the letter on facebook? I think it's really proving what's been said here >>48014353
some people feel like by merely being a fan of DG that they are entitled to more music and concerts. or the other most common reaction i've seen is people calling it "Pretentious". this whole ordeal is definitely making me take a closer look at the artist/fan (or in this time artist/consumer) relations
Though it does seem that the process of their work was an ever moving model of activity rather than a set piece. So it is fair to believe that although it was a self aware track of activity, it cannot be seen as just an idea followed through, and rather an adaptive trajectory of decision making. I'm too tired to go into detail, but basically for me deathgrips put enough energy into their own model of activity, in a time that so much public content is neutral and passive, that it shows a living model of people not even considering public values and maneuvering in there own forum of values. So much so it poses an alternative to the usual perpetual poles of passive content, that inspires others to also penetrate this film of neutrality and that the world, even with current mediums like the ever over saturated Internet, is a reactive place that will adapt if you disregard accepting it's state, and become an active antagonist motivated to engage in activity to play a role in a more adaptive collective world, less censored and more aware etc etc..
People think that artists "owe" them something are totally and utterly missing the point of art.
I used to think the internet was a force for positive change but I think it honestly sent us back to the 1930s. Just look at /pol/ and the average facebook comment thread.
Fan entitlement will always be kinda bullshit, though at the same time understandable. If you're gonna pay for something you expect it to happen/be delivered, DG have been really shit to their fans on many occasions now.
In 2012, in the thralls of TMS and the lead up to based NLDW, I thought their cancellation trick was neat. Like yeah, fuck expectations! But then it got kinda tired. The most punk thing DG could have done is finished the damn tour, or at least out on a final show. Just as a demonstration, if they truly believe they're at their "best"
would they really give that much shit about unappreciative fans though? and they were never trying to be much more than an object of worship
as i see it, their role was more of a "system blower", blowing not just "the system" but also your system and mine
actually it would be better to use the word "spectator" or something similar (even "target" maybe) instead of "fan" when it comes to DG
if you haven't you should really check their FB. it's mind boggling the amount of people that are still under the impression of death grips as a typical band, and that they are concerned with money and fame. People saying that they "owe it to their fans" to finish those shows and continue recording music even if they feel it would be of a lesser quality. this whole ordeal has an almost zen like quality to it if you know what i mean. it just reminds me of the impermanence of everything.
you're all overthinking it
what really happened was three guys who like to fuck with people and having a passing interest in internet-centric social behavior decided to make aggressive hip hop and people took to it way more than they expected
they simply have run out of ideas and their shaky quality has tanked ever since nolovedeepweb and they finally realized it
yeah my bad i confused the titles. i'm not sure if she is or not but theres a photo of rides dad on FB and a status about how "will always love" his wife for how they raised their kids. it was implied that she wasn't around any more in the phrasing.
that line is just so powerful because its the most direct insight to a personal experience without trying to cover it up with strange phrasing.
idk it speaks to me a lot as well because my mom is terminally ill and to actually really feel a line in DG is foreign to me
I have. It's really disheartening as an artist to see that people are still stuck in this outmoded system of "I pay you, you give me pretty thing back." We are still a society of Thomas Kinkades. Or, y'know, Hitlers.
People think that modern society is decadent but really, the older way of thinking about art is critically evaluating symbols rather than blindly accepting them because they're pretty. The hostility is from people entrenched in the fascist/romanticist ways of thinking that characterized the early 20th century.
i'm not sure how much they care about it but its interesting to see how many people that are supposed fans that have had this whole thing go straight over their heads.
i do get what you say about the tour cancellations. i'm lucky enough to have seen them in seattle nov 2012 after they cancelled their june 2012 tour so i have no ill feelings about the cancellations. i can understand the perspective of fans that made plans such as hotels and rides and whatnot to get to shows and find that the band decided not to show. but at the same time the it's a lesson it letting go. you can hold on to this grudge against them and never enjoy their music again or you can let it go and appreciate what they're trying to say
>"I pay you, you give me pretty thing back."
the best part about this is that most of the people complaining have paid death grips absolutely nothing. their music is all free. their solo shows will get refunded probably. it's merely a, i give you a facebook like, you owe me ______
>that I-Be-Area film is creepy and scary as shit
the real scary part is when you realize that you are living in that world. It is being projected by red green and blue light into you retinas right now.
i feel you anon
i actually lost a very dear friend soon after NLDW got released and their music really helped me accepting death, in a way i never thought possible when i first got into their music
>These experiences, along with the drugs
something i've noticed as DG went on is the collective ego loss they as a group seem to have undergone. while ExM was very aggressive and had songs like I Want It I need It where they are name dropping all these drugs like "Yeah i do these!!" and every album since then has been more abstract and less centered on anything ego related (especially NotM). probably them all having psychedelic experiences together led to a real solidified creative bond where they were able to just stream of consciousness most of their work.
why is that cringy?
did Stefan really go to RISD? that makes me happy as fuck cause I live in RI and my brother and father both graduated from there. I just wish my brother was actually into art like these guys though. He just wants to draw dungeons and dragons and play video games.
I think that's the question Death Grips are seeking to answer. Or have already answered.
I think the answer is in enlightenment, ego death. I think Death Grips might have quit because they attained enlightenment. People who become enlightened are notoriously lazy and detached.
If this thread and the last 3 years has solidified anything it's that Death Grips is one of the gripping and inventive musical and social experiments ever. I'm glad I lived through this and not just read about it ten years down the line.
I can't even imagine what a night spent with Stefan, Zach and Andy on shrooms would've been like.
That is true as well.
I've started to empathize with them in regards to breaking up. When your experiences, music, artistic endeavors, and general ideas get misused by the fans, it can be disappointing.
It makes me wonder what they actually think of a majority of their fans. Would not surprise me if they have a very low opinion of them.
i don't think it's drug later that much. be careful not to reduce them to some personal/private factors because they certainly did put a lot of though in what they did.
i think what happened through time is that their ideas became more developed and thus more abstracted from ego
>they simply have run out of ideas and their shaky quality has tanked ever since nolovedeepweb and they finally realized it
no, you are just one of those losers who don't recognize GP and NOTM as their best works. They are not leaving because they are out of ideas, it's because the project in their view is over. I suspect they mean this:>>48008366
Anyway, it's exciting because who knows what they will do next? Also I wonder if they will end up working together again, look at how The Mars Volta broke up and now we have Antemasque. Let's just hope it's not that shitty though.
>the collective ego loss
I've definitely notice this. I think they were just playing around with the concept of ego death at first. But after The Money Store, I think they actually began to understand what they were talking about. The ego has fully gone, so to speak.
i can't even begin to imagine
they seem like they type to push the boundary too. not just have a nice chill trip. (not that they haven't done that type of thing) They definitely have the sound of a band that's blasted off on some DMT at least once in their lives.
>When your experiences, music, artistic endeavors, and general ideas get misused by the fans, it can be disappointing.
I'm sure. and i'm thoroughly glad they canceled those shows in chicago last year. the fact that they started wrecking equipment really solidified that whole suburban entitled white kid label to a specific portion of their fanbase.
they might have a low opinion of some of them, but they probably have a genuine appreciate for people that have shown them authentic love and appreciation. look at the suicide note they got. if that's real imagine how that would feel as a band? even if its just a kids cry for help that would be a massive thing to experience
>can't wait to fuck my brain up
>all i need to forgot is today
songs like No Love, Punk Weight, Anne Bonny heavily referenced use of psychoactive
I've always felt psychedelics and altered states were a huge part of Ride's writting process
could be wrong though
>be careful not to reduce them to some personal/private factors because they certainly did put a lot of though in what they did
good point. but i wouldn't be surprised if they werent able to acess their creative visions easier through shared drug use
I've never really had any direct contact with the band, but I've reached out to them on twitter/emailed them before they came to my city for a show. Offered to host them/cook for them if they needed a place to stay or a bite to eat among other words of support.
I wish I was at that chicago show myself. I would've had two others emerge from the crowd while I drummed and we became the beast we worshiped so to speak.
Yeah but the song in which they mention those drugs on ExM is strictly about getting fucked up lol, he also notes cocaine and alcohol.
And I still feel I want it I need it is both satiric and an admittance of the truth.
people ten years from now won't beable to understand what DG was about. Someone will literally have to write a book about it and explain it, but even then they won't understand. How can a generation that grows up on ipads and cell phones and facebook ever understand what DG is about? Seriously. It's fucking scary to think about. Those generation aren't going to feel the alienation that makes DG resonate with us, because they will have been raised in it.
that would've been great footage. they probably wouldve appreciated it as well.
after TMS is exactly when. after NLDW it started becoming clearer but with GP it was obvious.
yeah thhats also a good point but i wouldnt classify DMT as a drug to take just to get fucked up lol. it makes it kind of funny to think about it in that way. like MDMA and coke sure but yeah lets rage DMT woo! i can't imagine lol
And what I mean is, there is no surefire way to be a pop star. Millions try and only a small percentage succeed. Do you even comprehend how many Taylor Swift knockoffs there are that never get a second album?
Catering to the "I wanna be different and listen to good music" is actually a much safer and almost-guaranteed profitable venture. They'll make less in the end, but they're guaranteed to make something.
For every Justin Beiber clone who never made it off of youtube, there are literally dozens of "true music" heavy metal bands capitalizing on the scene and keeping a steady income whether their album is good or not.
Suck my dick, faglords
That's true. It makes me wonder if they ever appreciated that by doing these... actions, they fostered quite a few series of communications amongst the various forums and other social media outlets. Hell, we've even created projects like gripsmas and much love deep web. Simple and rudimentary, yes, but it should be noted.
Everything I've said is a valid response to this.
Btw, I like Death Grips. I'm just able to grasp the concept that what they've done, although enjoyable music, wasn't done purely for the art of it.
do you actually think they were interested in fame though? i could see them wanting to make sustain themselves with their art. it would be very satisfying to be able to live off of your creative outlets. but like do you actually think they were in it for fame or anything? i'm genuinely curious to hear your opinion
they aren't catering to anyone. they are popular because their music is good. They got signed because someone recognized their obvious unique talents, but there is no reason to think they wouldn't have made albums and gotten popular anyway if they weren't signed. The gave away Exmilitary and people noticed it because it was good. When they were signed for NLDW they blew their advance on hotels and drugs while they recorded the album inside Zach apartment. Then they leaked the album for free. What single thing have they done that makes you think they give a shit about the money or popularity? You really think all these people are idiots? that they have been tricked? nothing they have done has been about making money. They are the polar opposite of what you describe. If they wanted a safe niche to make cash then they would stay the same and wouldn't be breaking up the band.
you know what, fuck it. You are an idiot. go listen to Kanye West you loser.
I'm believing it's legit for all intensive purposes, but I wouldn't put DG beyond faking their own death.
>say hey kid say hey kid say hey kid HEY KID
>come play dead
Yes. They are very famous right now. Everybody they wanted to have talk about them is talking about them. There are more people downloading them illegally on the internet than there are people buying the new Coldplay album.
>downloading them illegally
You mean downloading TMS?
Because every other record they've dropped has been for free, you goddamn idiot
>There are more people downloading them illegally on the internet than there are people buying the new Coldplay album.
what do they have to gain for this notoriety? more attention in their personal lives? a ramp for their next projects? interesting speculation. i could see they actually just enjoy knowing that a ton of people out there enjoy their music.
personally though i bet they would be making music whether they had 100 fans or 100,000 fans
It was on one of his personal blogs.
It won't let me post it for some fucking reason because 4chan thinks it's spam.
Here's a tweet he once made:
"I've got a job washing dishes cuz I need the daydreams ..2 things im making now.. 1 of those is the new Death Grips album"
Btw, I had a neighbor in highschool who used to come over to my house and she would gush about Beiber all day. His voice, his childhood, his favorite color, his favorite food, that sort of stuff I put up with it because she had nice tits.
For the record, you sound exactly like her the way you talk about Zach. Why would you possibly ever want to know that much about him? Are you friends?
My neighbor was "friends" with "the real Justin Beiber" on Facebook. Are you friends with Zach, too?
>people actually thinking music makes you any money
How's it feel being in middle school and worrying about which punk bands you like sold out?
they were only interested in fame though because the project was a conceptual art piece. Their being famous is really just part of the show, that's why they regard the band as separate from their personal lives. Think of it as if they were putting on a giant gig and we were watching from our computers. It is no the kind of shallow self-serving fame of celebrities who just wan to perpetuate themselves for money, they were creating art.
I shouldn't have said illegally, I subconsciously equate free with illegal. My bad.
But yeah, it springboards other projects. They have larger crowds paying for their shows. They're fucking touring with Soundgarden right now, they're getting paid to do that.
And I imagine they just get a stiffy off of attention. Who doesn't? I have a stiffy in this thread.
yeah that;s a good point. none of their music has been "illegally downloaded" so to speak, maybe NLDW cause epic "owned" the rights to that album
but even then they released that with a Creative Commons license
they even gave us the instrumentals and unmaster versions of TMS. Death Grips could literally open up a money store where people walk in and they just hand them money, no questions asked, and you would still have morons calling them sell outs. that's what they've done, time is money. They worked really hard on thier albums and then just gave them away for free. They didn't even make the money back on tour because they cancelled their tours. Anyone who thinks they are about getting famous and making money is seriously retarded.
Because the amount of work in relation to the amount they were making was no longer to their liking. Yes.
They were touring. They did make money off of every show they've ever done. They did do a lot of shows for a lot of people.
I don't have friends of a facebook. I really connect with the themes of alienation from society though technology in the music of Death Grips because I have suffered paranoid delusions before centered around technology. As an artist an person I find Death Grips inspiring in the same way I find Jimi Hendrix or Frank Zappa inspiring, but unlike those artists Death Grips are living in the same digital age that I am living. I want to learn more about them as a group because I want to further my understanding of what Death Grips is as a conceptual art piece. I am interested in them as people because they seem like they have good ideas about coping with modern society. They are role models for me. They are someone I can look to when all around me in my regular life I see people living lives of quiet desperation and digital hypnosis.
How do you have two jobs and tour? Do you just have the chillest managers anyway?
To answer your question, your music probably sucks and you're probably ugly as shit or at the very least bland and imageless.
to me it's important that Zach (?) said death grips was a separate entity. when this entity was unable to keep making music, they had to stop.
paranoid delusions are something he should probably get help with but ridicule isnt helpful.
and yeah i'm not upset it was good while it lasted. best thread i've seen about DG yet.
I'm playing with a band frequently talked about on /mu/, reviewed by theneedledrop and pitchfork next week. That being said, they're noise, but whatever. So are Death Grips.
I'm telling you, the music industry fucking sucks. Yeah, some people do well. But the majority of musicians have day jobs. I guarantee almost all your favorite musicians, after getting back on tour, are phoning up their employers asking what day they need to come in.
I think they just took the MC Ride narrative as far as they could, and stretched their sound as far as possible without jumping the shark. Niggas On The Moon was good by any stretch of the imagination, but as a Death Grips album, it just felt stagnant.
but i'm not actually in white suns anon
To guess my project you'd have to go through all of white suns shows this next week and listen to everything on the bills and then guess which one is me.
I don't really wanna share it on here. I love you guys but I really don't want to be a /mu/ niche artist doomed to soundcloud threads.
No, as in 38 years of age. I saw on the ARG thread that died a few minutes ago. His birthdate was November 13, 1975
I also remember seeing his birthdate as October 4, 1970 a few months back
Doubtful, pal. As someone who's frequented /mu/ since 05 I can say the death grips fanbase was made up of 'misunderstood' 15 year olds and anyone past that who calls themselves fans are obviously emotionally stunted.
This isn't even an argument,
The issue with almost all people looking at Death Grips is that they view Death Grips' art and then shove the art unto the artist. That is reverse logic. You could say for instance, using flawed logic, that Coltrane's later work was whacky and therefore he was taking drugs, which was actually the opposite; he was sobering up.
Because of this, I'm fairly certain that the issue with how we're approaching Death Grips is with a level of containment; we try to denigrate their work, or say that they were just angst-filled because of their origin, or that the attention had affected the art, etc.
In truth Death Grips are the most exciting popularized group because they approach music, especially hip-hop, in a purely artistic state of mind. They have a general directive (primitiveness, acceleration, etc.) and within that they voice humans that are depraved individuals; drug dealers, hitmen, you get the point. So Death Grips approach art the same way Banksy walks up to a wall, or David Lynch directs a set.
Also, Death Grips want to produce art that comes purely from within; the original thought they tried to make was a breath of fresh air in an era where your influences and role models 'matter' to your art. They approach expression much like that of Descartes. They make music with the closest they can get to the presupposition that no one else has made music before.
Maybe Death Grips praise the internet for it's ability to offer us any tools we need in which to voice expression and live; however they decry the modern age because 'the mask that separates us' is making us feel as though every thought taken from the internet is our own when it's not.
It's important to make connections guys and not to approach the art with a limited scope
This thread is beautiful.
I don't know a lot about Death Grips, but I like their album Exmilitary a lot (and I don't usually like Hip Hop). Are there any interesting references from that album I should know?
I really sucks that it took DG breaking up for us to finally have a real conversation about them and not just a "Rank Their Albums" thread. I feel like I've learned more ITT thread than in the last 10 DG threads combined.
I kind of want to write a tl;dr about intersections between Death Grips as music outfit/art exhibition/cultural phenomenon and Tiqqun's concept and theory of Bloom, but eh it's 2am and kinda late in the thread.
to anybody who gives a shit, though, I highly recommend reading theory of bloom. There's a PDF version that's rather clunkily translated from its original French, and there's a newer version you can buy that's translated excellently by a pro.
Okay then. I haven't written or read anything in quite a while, so this is the perfect excuse to do both.
First, a little introduction on Tiqqun, which will hopefully provide context for the rather idiosyncratic terminology that I'll use later.
Tiqqun, in many respects, can be seen as the Death Grips of the critical theory/cultural critique/radical theory world. They came together sometime in 1998 and produced a journal, titled "Tiqqun 1", with the purpose of "recreating the conditions for another existence", that they published in 1999. The contents of the journal, divided roughly into different "books", was written with classic nigh-inpenetrable post-structuralist prose, but included vicious and penetrating analyses and critiques of civilization that went far beyond nearly everything produced by continental philosophy in the last century. They drew references and concepts from an incongrous array of philosophers, such as Foucault, Marx, and Badiou, but never wrote in the perspective of a foucauldian, marxist, or hardline maoist, instead taking piecemeal useful concepts from each philosopher and applying them in their own way. Most intriguing of all, though, was the fact that they expressed an utter disdain for the medium they were working in, and urged readers to transcend it as quickly as possible. They dropped another issue shortly after 9/11, and then disappeared forever. All members remain anonymous, with one exception.
Yes, one of their founding members and several other people, operating under the moniker "The Invisible Committee", published the booklet "The Coming Insurrection" in 2006. Said booklet became infamous through Glenn Beck's discovery and said hysteria over the book, as well as being used as evidence in the prosecution of the Tarnac 9 (in which Julan Coupat was outed as a founder of Tiqqun).
darnit, I posted too late.
some of their works have been translated and are available in multicolored books similar to TCI, though.
thanks, gimme a sec as I need to collect my thoughts on this shit. Haven't touched theory of bloom in a while, either, so I'm going over what I highlighted.
The Theory of Bloom is a foundational text in Tiqqun's works, and everything else they wrote either contains explicit references to it or works off its content. In summary (that does the work very little justice, but I'll try my best), Theory of Bloom (henceforth referred to as ToB) describes the absolute, metaphysical alienation that has come to be the most definitive (and yet subtle) features of modernity. This fundamental tonality of being, this Stimmung, is at once a condition shared by all and the most private, individual truth. It's the result of the collapse of identity and subjectivity and Capital's cybernetic response to that collapse. Thus, in one way or another, we have all become Blooms (because we live in Bloom), but you can catch glimpses of its deepest, most explicit manifestations (for Bloom is always timid and prone to hiding) in things like spree shootings, suicides, this fucking website, or in certain forms of music.
Book quotes that I think explain the general outline more concisely than I have:
"All around us a petrified world spreads forth, a world of things where we ourselves figure with our egos, our gestures, and even our feelings as things themselves...we are...the exile who's never completely sure of what's going on around him"
"A reasonable mind concluded one day: 'actually, Bloom is alienated man'. Not so. Bloom is the man so thoroughly conjoined with his alienation that it's absurd to try and distinguish between the two."
Has no one else noticed this? July 2nd, the day Death Grips break up, is the day after Mercury went direct (out of retrograde). They've referenced retrograde in the past: http://theneedledrop.com/2012/04/death-grips-retrograde/)
I don't know too much about astrology, so maybe someone else can shed some light here, but in astrology Mercury's retrograde represents a time of chaos and internal growth. It's also a time that people are supposed to turn inwards and ponder self reflection. I wonder if this factored into the timing of Death Grips breaking up. Would love to hear your thoughts, just thought I'd share this tid bit that might shed some light on the significance of DG's breakup.
Niggas on the Moon, released on June 8th, one day after Mercury goes into retrograde. Death Grips break up, July 2nd, one day after Mercury's Retrograde ends.
That is not a coincidence. Mercury enters retrograde again October 5th, I'm calling it now. Jenny Death will be released then.
No, you can be popular without having sold out. A band has sold out when, say, an edgy 15-year-old kid's younger cousin has heard of it without their older cousin telling them about it, which then immediately makes their older cousin want nothing to do with such a passe band.
speaking of certain forms of music...
Death Grips's discography offers, in my opinion, the most gripping and concise portrayals of Bloom that has come out of the medium of Music in at least the last decade. The fact that so many people who are, relatively speaking, intimate with Bloom on at least a semiconcious level are so attracted to DG is but one indication that DG have managed to touch a live wire.
The harrowing production raw vocal delivery in DG's songs mirror, with frightening accuaracy, the veritably schizophrenic quality of our existence under modernity. Ride turns from hardened thug, drug addict, to wounded, hunted animal (to give a few examples) on a dime, revealing Bloom's necessity of accumulating and wearing an immense collection of masks in order to stave of the realization of its purely negative content. "Artificial Death In The West" paints a vivid picture of the utter desolation left in the wake of acceleration of culture, adoption of digital technology, and the Internet; in short, the relentless Bloomification of the populace by Spectacle and Biopower. "Fuck Me Out" attests to the utter collapse of relationships in general, which echoes Bloom as "the man of non-participation, the creature of non-belonging".
The band themselves behaved in an exemplary Bloomesque fashion: they always remained cryptic, shunned comprehensibility, and remained always-already wandering and rootless...
but when they struck, they struck on a completely different plane of consistency, with a form utterly unparsable by the Spectacle of media in which they were working in and (supposedly) compliant with. Those who decry the group's antics as "publicity stunts" simply fail to see the meaningful side of these actions, the one which they had in mind, and which so audibly cries out (audible at least to those willing to hear it) "I'm in Bloom, I am a Bloom, and I'm fucking scared. I don't know who I am or where I belong; indeed, I've never known either to begin with. Am I as alone as I think I am? Are there others out there? How do we meet? HOW DO WE GET OUT!?". Their albums, each considered in its totality, are at base crude, inconsistent, woefully incomplete (but nonetheless brutally honest and true) ways of trying to convey that sentiment in one way or another, reached through a lifetime process of groping around, blindly and frantically, in the Eternal Midnight of existence that a group of shadowy French philosophers called Bloom.
As someone who recently delved into post-modern critical theory, this is extremely interesting and explains some of the more ambiguous facets (particularly in Baudrillard) that I feel have been missing. Please continue.
Although I do have to say I'm not particularly sold on Death Grips being representational of the situation. But I'm not a big fan of them in general, so perhaps I'm missing it on purpose.
If you're up to it, you can read the online/PDF version of it translated by an anonymous person, but, like I said before, it's not very elegant and doesn't do the more poetic sections of ToB justice. It's hosted on The Anarchist Library and tiqqun.jottit.com.
The other option would be to buy the Little Black Cart edition of the book; it's 10 bucks, but it was translated by Robert Hurley (who really knows his shit; he translated the first English editions of many of Deleuze and Guattari's and Foucault's works back in the 70s/80s) and is magnificent. In either case, be sure to have a wiktionary tab open while reading it.
>Although I do have to say I'm not particularly sold on Death Grips being representational of the situation
That's definitely true, if for no other reason than the fact that Bloom can never be fully conveyed or represented; it is the landfill of symbolic thought. "If it is not to betray its object, discourse will have to coax it into view, only to let it disappear again the moment after, et sic in infinitum". To this particular Bloom, at least, DG was particularily effective in coaxing Bloom (as Stimmung) into view.
I suppose I can agree with that. I think the trouble comes with separating Bloom from the discourse of related concepts such as The Spectacle and Simulacra that so obviously inspire it; which I think, if anything, Death Grips is a very poor representation of. But in isolating Bloom, I can definitely see the connection.
Although, I might still argue there are better representations of it. I haven't had time to mull over it to any length, but I feel that the more experimental side of outsider music is more exemplary of Bloom. Something like Gary Wilson, Wildman Fischer, Suckdog, and Jandek, which contains the same detached neurotic tendancies as Death Grips (although to an even greater degree), while also using the vernacular of the Spectacle itself, at least in the case of Gary Wilson. Thus there's no need to isolate Bloom.
But beyond specific examples, Death Grips's excursion into and exhibition of Bloom, while undeniably accurate, falls victim (at least at the time of writing) to the same fate that consumes hikkimori, the people who go postal, and suicide bombers. While they all attest, in one way or another, the undeniable reality that this civilization is for shit and needs to go, they do so without any sort of consistency to act upon the realization of that reality. If Bloom is that being trapped, from birth, between the vice of Empire/Civilization/Modernity/whatever, squeezed by a dual action that destroys us in the same movement it keeps us alive just enough for the entire process to repeat, ad inifinitum, we either adopt a disappearance policy (most of us), or (like DG and the "incomprehensibles") just fucking explode and perish.
To be clear, I'm not trying to assign any revolutionary/subversive/insurrectionary validity to DG, spree killers, and other such unsavory characters, because it doesn't exist. However, DG *does* reveal the massive potential that Bloom contains in taking down this awful megamachine. The fact that three washed-up artists, for example, can cause such a ruckus begs the question, "what more could happen?". Taken to its limits, Bloom can cause much trouble indeed, but why stop there? If we exhaust ourselves in howls this ferociously, what's to say we can't find each other and exit Bloom and the horrible reality in which he is its model organism? (cont'd.)
I apologize if I have indicated that I'm trying to isolate Bloom, but I suppose it's inevitable if I'm using language to convey my thoughts on him/it. Bloom lives within each of us as "the most disturbing guest", who has graduated to be master of the house. It's also the metaphysical reality in which we *all* exist, "Bloom lives within Bloom". In effect, then, the only real difference between us is how well we can hide it, or how realistic the mask we put on is (power has generated one of the most frightening apparatuses to prevent Bloom from grasping his condition in full, but that's what the Theory of the Young-Girl is about). Bloom is at once what is most private to us and what is most widely experienced; the realization, in full, of this would constitute the shattering of the self/other dichotomy and, along with it, Bloom and all the re/produces it.
to further clarify, when I use the terms "metaphysical reality" and such to describe Bloom, I'm not trying to prescribe some inevitable quality to it. Rather, I'm trying to demonstrate the the condition of our immiseration is so intense, so deeply rooted, and so subtle that the only way to be rid of it is to launch an attack on metaphysics itself, and the civilization which is its product.
Which brings me to the end of my little rant. Alas, far too much has been written, said, filmed, recorded, etc. etc. about Bloom, but nothing has been done about it. Death Grips is the latest and most prominent example of this Sisyphian routine to have come out of music. Even Tiqqun themselves have contributed to this unfortunate pattern (in the last analysis), but they did so with a high level of realization that they were contributing (not that that matters in terms of events). In the end, Tiqqun attempted to sketch out some preliminary suggestions of how to realize (and thus exit) Bloom, a process and event which they called "communism", but bears no resemblance to any definition of communism. "communism as ethical disposition; to allow ourselves to be affected, in the contact of beings, by what is common to us, and to share that commonality". The vagueness of that is intentional; long dead are class struggle, the Worker's party, the Left (with its pathetic little delusions of utopia), and even identity. But it's crucial to realize that we're not alone, to find each other, and to start from there until everything is destroyed. In other words, to *act*, and thereby *make things happen* to their fullest extents.
"Where you runnin' now!?" - MC Ride
"But the world we're awakening to is a world at war whose brilliance radiates entirely from the trenchant truth of its division into friends and enemies. Designating the front is preliminary to crossing the line, but only combat can accomplish the crossing. Not so much because it calls one to greatness, but because it is the deepest experience of community, the community that constantly skirts annihilation and takes its measure only from the close proximity of the RISK. Living together in the heart of the desert with the same resolve not to make peace with it -- THIS IS THE TEST, THIS IS WHERE THE LIGHT SHINES" -- Tiqqun
What's behind the door /mu/?
What kind of Astronimical event went down when they released NLDW? I remember there was something but...
and what about the moon phases? First song is called Full Moon Death Classic, last project niggas on the Moon.... there is something else there
They cancel two huge tours that would've earned them a fuckload of money, out of 5 albums a single one was put out for cash, the rest were put up for free on the internet
Yeah, they're totally fucking their fans in the ass, everything is a strategy to get fame and $$$
Seriously, hate them all you want but it is straight up fucking stupid to imply they give a shit about money and success
I really only come to /mu/ for Death Grips threads anymore, so these past few days have been great.
It sucks they broke up but talking with anonymous people over the internet was a blast. Maybe the real Death Grips were the friends you made along the way.
>are obviously emotionally stunted.
I would argue that you are emotionally stunted if you don't feel the power of Death Grips music. You are also categorically wrong. There are many many intelligent mature people who appreciate Death Grips.
>"I'm in Bloom, I am a Bloom, and I'm fucking scared. I don't know who I am or where I belong; indeed, I've never known either to begin with. Am I as alone as I think I am? Are there others out there? How do we meet? HOW DO WE GET OUT!?
Used to know who I was
Fuck if I knew who that was
Pay no mind illogical
Just don't die in a hospital
thanks for this man. i assume you've been here most of thread and so have i. great discussion's been had and you've brought up some great topics for me to further look into. it's funny with all this talk of disconnection and alienation in the modern world, how this thread makes me feel like there is less of it in merely talking about it.
Maybe the real meaning of Death Grips was in our hearts all along!
>A corollary of this line on how representation and spacetime are divorced by digitization, on how representations are thereby commingled and confused within a detached plane, is the observation that representations of the self are similarly dislocated from their points of origin and inserted into a universalized province.
>In other words, one major aspect of digitization is that it deposes the human body as the primary source or seat of the subject’s identity/presentation/construction and replaces it with data (text, images) that reside permanently and irrevocably within “the cloud,” data that can in theory be accessed, manipulated, reconstituted, and redistributed by anyone with an internet connection (cf. Julian Dibbell’s “A Rape in Cyberspace”).
>The digital age takes the self hostage while at the same time promising to perfect that self, and it’s perhaps this feature of the epoch that Government Plates latches onto more than anything else.
>From the very beginning of their existence, Death Grips have been resistant to, or at least not entirely comfortable with, the notoriety that’s followed them around and their status as critical darlings, and their utilization of the web to further their career has only added to this tension, as if fueling their apprehension that they no longer (fully) belong to themselves.
>At several junctures on the album, Burnett appears to acknowledge this in his own scabrously indirect manner, spouting the boast-cum-abuse of “When I spit in your face/ You’ll take what you can get/ Not once have I been had yet” during album closer and glorious rave-up “Whatever I Want (Fuck Who’s Watching),” which in its bilious refrain of “Fuck who’s watching” acts as a vitriolic denial that the band’s perpetual internet presence and contentious public profile has diluted or violated the identities they had prior to digital entry.
>Possibly the strongest throe on the album, and including a gorgeous about-face into diffuse electro-reverie, the song hones the paranoiac sublimity of NO LOVE DEEP WEB’s “Artificial Death in the West” into a giddy seesaw of over-excitement and blissed drowsiness, all the while employing such spittle as “Heard you claim we’ve met before/ Always forget who they are” to ridicule the assumption that the internet and digitization has genuinely introduced us to the band.
Thanks man, this was a good read. Unfortunately this thread is actually the first (and probably the last) time I've seen anyone take Death Grips seriously for once. For once, no shitposters fucked things up, and I'm glad for that. I'm curious about this theory of bloom so I'm going to read more into it.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. As for ToB itself, I managed to obtain a PDF of the better-translated version (which normally would cost you 10 bucks). Here's the link: https://mega.co.nz/#!jhAD3BbB!SiuODXphagii7MaGhR6S_ufmz3E5-kHh1BxzLg_ZzKg
As one final suggestion before I go, keep an online dictionary tab open while you're reading it. You're bound to come across esoteric terminology, this being the product of those formally trained in philosophy. It's a difficult but extremely rewarding read, another similarity (in my experience) it bears to Death Grips.
>..... From an esoteric point of view, the name Death Grips alluded to the desires of humans. People have a grip of death on their appetites and desires which ultimately lead them down the path of death. The Money Store was power, NLDW was fear, Govt plates was identity, and judging from the first half of the powers that b, I'd say lust and sexuality. I loved how occult Stefan was in his lyrics, making references to The Emerald Tablets, Halls of Amenti, numerous references to chakras and pyschic perception, especially in Artificial Death in the West, "My stargate in a vacuum monitor eye view", "She shoot pussy through your chest you die." Both of those lines I believe are referencing chakras. The first being the 3rd eye and the second clearly describing ego death, opening of the heart, and the vesica pisces all within one brilliantly written line.
while this seems possible, I don't think there is enough evidence to support it. the themes of power, fear identity, and sexuality are present in all the albums. You could just as easily sat that NLDW was about power or that GP was about fear.. Plus it leaves the question of Exmilitary. Interestingly I was reading interviews yesterday and noticed Zach said that they do regard Exmilitary as their first album, while publicly we were told that Government Plates was not an album.
I'm glad this thread turned out to be such a success, and I started another thread over hear about something similar thought of, but something tells me that thread won't be as successful >>48032077
>A corollary of this line on how representation and spacetime are divorced by digitization, on how representations are thereby commingled and confused within a detached plane, is the observation that representations of the self are similarly dislocated from their points of origin and inserted into a universalized province.
>From the very beginning of their existence, Death Grips have been resistant to, or at least not entirely comfortable with, the notoriety that’s followed them around and their status as critical darlings, and their utilization of the web to further their career has only added to this tension, as if fueling their apprehension that they no longer (fully) belong to themselves.
this makes perfect sense and makes me fucking pumped to listen to GP again too
Goddamn, Death Grips is a fucking band. Are you autists really that lost? It's not like anything they've done hasn't been completely laid out. Nothing's been hidden. I'm starting to believe that everybody on this board is baked out of their minds 24/7.
you do raise a good point, one of the main values of the band according to Zach is transparency, but at the same time I don't think we really understand everything about them. Did they have a message? what was that message?
Some of the things Zach has said that could be seen as messages are about wanting people to be themselves and accepting of themselves.
Maybe we should go chronologically and analyze each incident. Like every so called 'publicity stunt' and try to figure out what they mean.
I think it could be said that they use technology in a primitive way as a potential response to or subversion of the common view of technology as being an advancement in some fashion, though 'primitive' is not 'dismissive' in this sense except perhaps on Culture Shock. The fact is that man has not forgotten his primal urges, he is not unchained from them despite the technology around him, which exists in large part to satisfy his urges, but they are the exact same urges that have existed since before civilization itself. Power, sex, community/connection, novelty, chemical rewards (drugs of many kinds plus neurotransmitters themselves), control, dominance, freedom, the fundamental urges that motivate human beings still exist, our technology represents a fulfillment of those same desires and appetites that we have always struggled for even in the face of our own inevitable failure to fully sate our appetites in the fact of death. Some of Death Grips' work can be ('can' being the operative word here) seen as that realization writ large.
You fail to realize that people (myself included) will overlay their own messages onto any given piece of art; art is never free of the context of its consumers and this is no exception. Whether or not their art is interpreted as Death Grips intended (it is not, it never is unless the goal is specifically to provide a blank slate) is beside the point, their fans will be self-entertaining if you give them the opportunity, and Death Grips have given them the opportunity. Remember when they didn't show up to Lollapalooza and people started smashing the set with a suicide note in the background while someone played their music with an ipod? That's as Death Grips a scene as I can picture and it happened when they *didn't* show up, when they *didn't* fill in the blanks. Whether or not this is intentional is now irrelevant precisely because it's happening either way.
(continued) Much of Death Grips' work (and this is backed up by interviews) also deals with the rejection of arbitrary impositions on the lives of others, as
has pointed out. I listed power as the first of the urges that Death Grips has brought up thematically many times, it strikes me as the theme of their entire body of work, primarily the power to self-actualize and to recognize yourself as a full human being.
This is partly why questions about "what it means" fall short. What does it mean to *you*? You are the listener, if it has meaning for you personally, even if it's overlaid, then it has meaning for you personally, and you should in Death Grips fashion, own it, don't be afraid to take that and run with it if it's what you need or even want, you're not going to be wrong to derive meaning from it even if it's not what the artists themselves intended, because that's boxing yourself in, that's rejecting acceptance of yourself to try and fit into someone else's framework, and that's pointless, you'll always come up short. You need to own yourself first and foremost.
>Maybe we should go chronologically and analyze each incident. Like every so called 'publicity stunt' and try to figure out what they mean.
I think each "incident" comes down to what was paraphrased in >>48033298
I mean it's like you said
>messages are about wanting people to be themselves
I think it's a pretty simple concept. We live in a funny time. It just seems like common critical contrast to me, placing the primitive against the advanced. The internet is a crazy phenomena. To quote Videodrome, we're all plugged into the world's mixing board. A majority of people are floating in a weird space though. We've experienced life before the prominence of the internet. We're holding on by our fingertips to this cliff of advancement, which obviously comes to "acceleration". There's nothing mysterious about Death Grips to me, and it's odd to me that so many people seem lost and analyze them like they hold some huge, life-changing secret. They're just a band. Bands break up.
It's a mystery because people want it to be one and because people get suckered in easily by social media games in an era where the answers to most questions is a google search away. Just goes to show how advanced we really are, I guess.
It's all for fun, anyways. Someone could pull a social media game straight out their ass and someone, somewhere would fall for it and see it as some big mystery to be solved. It just so happens that Death Grips is popular, so when they do it, /mu/ shits bricks.
>I used to think the internet was a force for positive change but I think it honestly sent us back to the 1930s. Just look at /pol/ and the average facebook comment thread.
Those people are by no means the majority, and those people have always existed. All the Internet does is give them a platform to spout their bullshit. I think that positive change is more prevalent than you think--it's just not as noticeable
It's not positive or negative, it is simply acceleration. A car can go 20 miles an hour or 80 miles an hour, but a shitty driver will fuck things up at either speed, and a good driver will be able to drive well at either speed. It isn't the speed that counts, it's who uses it.
I know, right? Cool, smart, socially-adjusted guys like us are way better than all these pretentious neckbeards.
no, things have different levels and it depends which angle you come at something from. An actor approaching the role in a Shakespearean play for instance, could interpret the play from a lyrical, literary perspective, paying extra attention to the meter and language, or they could attack it from a psychological perspective, applying the theories of Freud or Jung to the characters in the play. Both perspectives can be correct interpretations, so long as the actor plays the part truthfully. All the stuff about the language is there in the play, but the psychological stuff is in the play too even though the play was written before psychology.
Everything can be approached and interpreted from different angles. We could talk about Death Grips from an anthropological or sociological view just as easily as we could from a religious point of view. It is just how you see it.
When deciphering the intentions of the artists, which was the point of this thread, analyzing DG from every perspective is not only pointless, it's distracting, not like their intentions weren't obvious enough anyway. You typed all of that for nothing.
All of us type all of this for pretty much nothing, it's for fun, chill out.
I'm afraid it's true, though, that analyzing Death Grips from all those different points runs the risk of overanalyzing and reading between lines that aren't really there. Doesn't mean those critiques that we might believe are there are bad, though.
Death Grips have always given me a voodoo kinda vibe.
I never thought too much of it, but the references to magic tricks throughout notm leads me to believe I may have been on to something.
>not like their intentions weren't obvious enough anyway
people keep saying this but they don't explain what their intentions were. I'm not saying we should examine DG from every possible perspective, I was just pointing out to all the people who keep saying "guy's it's just a band" that it is more than that. According to the group themselves it was more than just a band. I don't think we fully understand what it was when most people are apt to dismiss them as "just a band"
"It's just a band" is the mating call of people who are bored by art analysis and the perception that people who are taken in by art are just circlejerking about it, which in this thread's case is only half-true. Don't waste your breath worrying about whether or not people find your analysis valid because they won't care either way, they're just bitching. Focus on whether or not what you're saying has merit.
while I don't disagree with you, I think there is more to it. It's not as simple as primative/modern
and 'hey this internet is crazy, look how fast things are today.' I think if you haven't seen the film's I Be Area and Center Jenny and are interested in this I would watch them. It isn't necessarily so straight forward. Like why would they refuse to play and put up that suicide note at a show? Not playing when you are supposed to like that is conventionally one of the worst things a band can do. Why would they choose to do that?
Not who you're responding to, but it has to be said (again, I think) that it was the Death Grippiest possible scene to have fans destroying their instruments with a suicide note in the background with their music played on an iPod. There's techno-primitivism, power, violence, death & self-reflection on the subject of one's mortality, and the expectations we still hold for artists even in an age where people can get their music any time they want. It was almost too perfect a scene.
If you got "hey this internet is crazy, look how fast things are today" from my post you should read it again, not that it's difficult to understand. I looked up I-BE AREA. Can you tell me what this has to do with Death Grips?
As for the performance with the suicide note, I'm also not familiar. If >>48035107's description is correct the symbolism shouldn't be any challenge to decipher. I'm attempting to be polite but I do have to say "fuck you" for the "Not playing when you are supposed to like that is conventionally one of the worst things a band can do." comment. Stop feeling so damn entitled. Pic related isn't us.
I think it was more of a failure. To me it seems like the instruments were an invitation for the crowd to make something themselves. Instead they destroyed everything and just plugged in an ipod. When they were confronted with themselves, when there was no stimulus to entertain them, they couldn't handle it so they have to plug in the ipod as soon as they can. Most of those people in the crowd are probably just like the average person who spends all their spare time plugged in, texting, watching tv, on the computer, on an ipod. The most creative thing they could muster to do in the situation was to retreat to an ipod and smash shit. Wouldn't it have been a better story if they had played the show themselves? The instruments were there. If the instruments weren't there and it was just a note it might be different, but they set up the whole stage for the audience.
it sounds like you don't know very much about the band. and as far as not playing when you are supposed to being a bad thing, it typically is. Imagine if you paid to have someone for something and they didn't give it to you. You pay for a taxi and the driver just sits there silent and doesn't drive. It's an incredibly rude and immoral thing to do. Being a working musician is a job. You don't get some magic free pass because 'Fuck You I'm an Artist Man.' You are seem really immature. The people who paid for the show worked hard to be able to pay for it. The club owner loses money if he has to refund everyone's ticket cause the band was a no show. It's a violation of a contract and it has real consequences for real people. By refusing to play you are being unprofessional and actually hurting people.
>the instruments were an invitation for the crowd to make something themselves.
I'm not sure about that, that wouldn't have happened even if they were asked to come up and do something. They probably wouldn't have been allowed. I think it was more about release, and the suicide note seems to back that up.
>Instead they destroyed everything and just plugged in an ipod.
Power and techno-primitivism, a very Death Grips-y combination.
>When they were confronted with themselves, when there was no stimulus to entertain them, they couldn't handle it so they have to plug in the ipod as soon as they can
That's partly the point; they used technological advances (iPods) to sate primal urges within them.
>Most of those people in the crowd are probably just like the average person who spends all their spare time plugged in, texting, watching tv, on the computer, on an ipod. The most creative thing they could muster to do in the situation was to retreat to an ipod and smash shit.
My point exactly, they have this technology and yet they are still motivated by the same thing that has motivated human beings since before recorded history.
>Wouldn't it have been a better story if they had played the show themselves?
You wouldn't have heard about it and you probably would have wanted them to get off the stage. Unless they have an artistic vision and some form of skill, then it's going to be amateurish at best. Technology also makes creation possible, but creation is not always power, nor was it what people came for (that is, energy, power, and an experience in which those could be expressed properly and appropriately). Imagine if someone tried to get up and play those instruments, they'd be booed off the stage because people know what they came for, and in the end, in their own way, they got it. It wasn't open mic night, it was a Death Grips show.
Any one else noticed the three trilogies?
(euphemisms for jail)
(major film titles)
(the occult and gambling/competition)
It's ignorant to think Death Grips is just going to be a living jukebox. I'm not a Death Grips expert but come on man. They trashed their agreement with Epic for a simple freedom. It's on you if you pay for a Death Grips show and they don't just play music, if they do at all. In fact, what's been described is very DG aesthetically. You're paying for the experience. "Death Grips" and "working musicians" shouldn't be synonymous in your head. Stop being a baby and stop thinking that when you pay for shows you're paying for guaranteed conventional set, and no, it's not a "violation of a contract". Don't talk about a business you know nothing about. Death Grips doesn't have to play shows. A cab driver has something called a "job". Death Grips owes nothing to you. If somebody's late just suck it up. It's almost guaranteed they had more trouble getting the show together than you did making the fifteen dollars to be there. You're not paying them to do a job, you're paying for admission.
I'm not saying all that isn't true, but the reaction speaks to the modern alienation themes in DG's music also. It is pretty beautiful what happened, but it is also harrowing, because that's the best that they could do., retreat into the digital.
It isn't a shameful thing that human beings are beings of desire, that's how they've always been. Animals are no different, and desire--in this case, their desire for music and release--is not inherently bad, I mean people desire things like community, pleasure, relationships, things like that. They also desire negative things, but those are negative only in certain contexts. I don't think it's a shame what happened. I'm not angry with Death Grips, and yet I sympathize with the audience, whom I am not angry with or ashamed of. They engaged in cathartic behavior, which is what they came to do anyways.
thanks for confirming you are immature and ignorant. You clearly don't know anything about the world of professional musicians. I have no issue with what Death Grips did because it was part of their art, but what makes it interesting is that it is such a violation of social norms. >>48036100
>Death Grips doesn't have to play shows.
no they don't. but when you say you are going to do something, you do it. when you enter into a contract you have obligations.
You sound like an edgy 13 year old. Grow up and get some perspective on the world outside you spoiled middle class bubble.
like I said, I don't think there is anything wrong with what happened. Just I also see it in context with larger society. I see all this energy and stuff that Death Grips could create, but it just gets consumed. Death Grips becomes another product that gets discarded. Zach had talked about wanting to create a whole world around the band. About making it more than a band. One of the first things they did was make Thirdworlds as a musical online community. I think they wanted to encourage more people to be creative and I don't think it ever really happened the way it could have.
I am close friends with musicians who have been touring since before you were born. You have no argument to combat. You are just another loser in some band no one give a fuck about who thinks they are hot shit and doesn't know shit about anything.
You say you are a professional musician but I guarantee you are too pussy to post you music here as show us what you have got, cause you know you haven't got shit. If you do have shit post it and let it speak for itself. If not just fuck off with your tail between your legs bitch.
I disagree, I think the fact that we're even discussing this right now, and the fact that they claimed they were at their best (which I believe) shows that their project was successful. I think they knew exactly what they were doing when they 'disbanded,' which I don't believe for a second. I'm not saying they're going to make new music as Death Grips, I'm saying that the three of them are obviously still going to remain friends and influence one another. I can't imagine doing a project like this with someone and then ignoring them.
If they feel that they have failed and that's why they took Thirdworlds down, then I think that's a shame because I don't see them as failures, I think they brought to light some aspects of humanity that few think about or recognize because we like to think we're above them, and that's not true. In that sense, Death Grips was a very freeing, very human project. Even if it didn't do what they set out to do (and I sincerely hope it did), as an artistic project I would count it as largely successful. They stayed true to their vision of the group, and cultivated an aesthetic that I think fulfills a need in people that is too often ignored or rejected as being far too basic, raw, or savage, despite having close to 200,000 years of history behind it, it fulfills the role of the 'other.' It's almost a shamanic thing.
See, I don't have to prove myself. Your whole argument relies on assumptions and a really poor attempt at seeming credible. Your fault is that you keep equating Death Grips with conventional professionalism, which you still know nothing about with all this empty talk of violating contracts. It's almost like everything you know about "the music business" comes from watching VH1.
put your music where your dumb mouth is or leave. >>48036749
>Your fault is that you keep equating Death Grips with conventional professionalism, which you still know nothing about with all this empty talk of violating contracts.
oh I am laffin
This isn't even about Death Grips. It's about your failure to understand how the fuck our society works, including the music business. Why do you think Death Grips are exempt from the same professional standards you would hold to any preforming musician? You don't even know half the fucking story about the band as you revealed here>>48035418 so it's pretty fair to say you don't know jack shit about what you are talking about.
fuck off loser
Hmm, I suppose I could see that. Or at least, the public was a little too suckered in by the fact that something was new and abrasive to notice that it had implications beyond just "Hey, he talks about drugs and violence and I feel threatened, awesome!" I guess I could understand disappointment with the audience.
it just like, if they had a message at all, I think it was something that would have made us get off of our cell phones and 4chan and facebook, and start using these tool in creative ways instead of just sitting around like sponges. I think if we were really receiving the message from them, what ever that message was, it would have changed us, but here we are, the same. Everyone is sitting scrabbling for an ARG, like we are desperate for them to keep going because we need them to create for us when we should be looking into ourselves.
You don't know how an ultimatum works. I don't have to obsessively digest everything related to Death Grips to understand the general concepts behind what they do, and to say that they're exempt from "professional standards" is a blatant indicator that you're clueless. Stop embarrassing yourself.
the only embarrassing thing I've done is stoop to engage with as idiot like you. It's like I was walking on the street and got in an argument with a dog. At this point the only thing left to do is move on and be thankful I was not born a dumb bitch while you continue to think you have the world figured out. If I I had a bone I would throw it just to get away faster.
That's a good point. I'm just bitter cause I realize I am wasting my time and I resent myself for it. It's easier to take it out on that guy than to just disconnect. But then you just get trapped in a cycle of resentment and time wasting. Anyone would die before the could finish educating every idiot on 4chan. it is futile.
I think I should leave 4chan anyway. I think we should all leave.
>How do I get out then?
we leave. I made a thread earlier to suggest that we try and change the way we use the internet. that this board could become more like a musical collective, a band, or a tribe, than a gossip column as it is now. Death Grips, this instruments on stage, playing shows over skype, it seemed like they were trying to show us new ways of doing things. I guess it won't happen here.
Abandon ship. All is lost if we stay.
You've missed my point.
I was quoting their lyrics.
Death Grips is not a key, it won't make people who like to listen to music good at playing music.
Stefan has said that he looks to himself and his internal conflict for inspiration, no?
That's what it's all about.
Death Grips is very introspective.
And here people are introspecting. Trapped in our own cages with our thoughts and desires and we will never get away.
it is like democracy.the internet, all this new technology. democracy is great. in our democratic America, it is literally possible to change the whole country in a single election. the potential is there for massive greatness, but it never happens. it's not because democracy is shitty, but because people are shitty.
>the internet, all this new technology. democracy is great. in our democratic America
i'm too lazy to go too much into it. but i'll just say this: the internet is far from democracy, even more so in our times. there's a clear hierarchy structure (facebook, google, twitter?)
we need more horizontal structure on the internet
i won't even touch that funny statement about "democratic america"
captcha: citizens tradedg
I agree with you. I'm not saying DG would make us make better music, but that we could have learned from their example. Looked to ourselves and our communities to create better, richer lives. In the primitive past we gathered around a fire to create sounds and achieve spiritual release with each other. We could be doing that around a computer screen today, but we don't we shit post. Like imagine if everyone on this board was into it. You would log on and see Jam threads with people Skyping and transmitting audio back and forth creating new things. Or else we could look to ourseleves away from the internet. It's like television, it's the drug of the nation. everyone is tuned in and it prevents them from thinking about themselves past the ego building that just distracts from our real problems. The endless stream of data is pointless. on 4chan our self is not even present, we are reduced to a cog inside a program. right now we are only fulfilling the service of providing content to perpetuate the program. it is just like facebook. we are reduced to a product.
the part about doing this>>48037746
was really more about how we could emulate the way that DG uses technology to further their own humanity rather than succumb to the alienating forces within technology that reduce our humanity.
here I go, typing another captcha, like an ant.
You don't understand the metaphor. Yes, the usa is a republic, but we have elected officals. literally all it would take to change anything about this country is for the public to elect new people who would change things. That is literally all. But it doesn't happen because the people aren't good enough to unite and do that. we can't agree, 90 percent of us can't even be assed to care. but the potential is there for greatness, that potential is very real.
The internet also has a vast amount of untapped potential, but it goes untapped because people don't care. They are content to sit on reddit and 4chan.
Get what I'm saying?