>be me 6 months ago
>be plebian who listens to MrSuicieSheep-core and not much else
>start going to /mu/
>see interesting looking bands that could potentially broaden my horizons and give me more cultured taste
>these bands include Women, The Knife, Alt-J, American Football, The Dismemberment Plan, Deerhunter, Modest Mouse and Talking Heads
>6 months later realize that it's all vapid, pretentious garbage and /mu/ only listens to it because it's different
It's all fucking pretentious garbage. All of it. It's not interesting, it's not catchy, it's often annoying, it doesn't evoke any kind of emotion in me, the lyrics are random bullshit that correspond to nothing (not even in an obscure sense).
It's all just pretentious crap that has no reason to exist except to make social deviants feel smarter than their peers because they listen to something slightly obscure.
The only thing that's peaked my interest has been Death Grips, Godspeed You! Black Emperor and Macintosh Plus. The rest of it is all just pretentious crap that has no reason to exist.
The only thing you people are is a bunch of shallow and insecure social deviants who try to make yourselves feel "smarter" in the most trivial way because you can't face the fact that you have no redeeming qualities. The equivalent of the rest of people on 4chan except you don't have the quality of being smart or talented like /g/ or /gd/.
>hurr gr8 b8 m8
I am 100% serious, and if I were a troll I'd be a troll in the loosest sense of the word because I'm saying things completely grounded in reality. I legitimately vilify all of you and think you're juvenile morons with no self awareness.
Only band I like out of those is Talking Heads, but still. Death Grips isn't any better than the other bands you listed and Macintosh Plus is music in a meme genre.
Good job Anon, you figured out most of /mu/. Most people on here are edgy, hipster faggots. The Talking Heads are pretty good though.
>Iggy Pop - The Idiot
>GZA - Liquid Swords
>Suicide - Suicide
>T. Rex - Electric Warrior
>Iggy Pop - Lust For Life
>The Velvet Underground - White Light/White Heat
>Nat King Cole - This Is Nat King Cole!
>The Magic Tramps - Kickin' Up Moonlight Dust
>David Bowie - Low
Legitimately good music by most standards AND catchy, new, and experimental at the time of release.
The production on Death Grips is what draws me in, it's some of the most competent and otherworldly production I've ever heard.
It's what I imagine Wu-Tang would start to sound like after you've been awake for 3 days in an anxiety induced meth binge.
Especially on the song "Blackjack", when MC ride's vocals start getting confused and it almost sounds like he's talking backwards, absolutely amazing.
how the fuck are those bands even remotely "pretentious"? they're all pop/rock
also, meme grips and gybe are the two single most pretentious bands that have ever existed
Pretentious does not mean "hipster music", you moronic fuck. Pretentious means "going out of your way to act as though you're being deep when what you're saying is actually completely shallow"
And that's exactly what these bands are doing. They're just different for the sake of being different.
"Meme Grips" is different with a purpose. It paints a picture of living a low lifestyle and throwing your life away, and a great amount of their songs are stories paying tribute to this.
Death Grips has now just reached a point of popularity where the pseudo-intellectual morons on this board feel a compulsive need to dislike it.
>Talking Heads is different just to be different
>Death Grips are different to spread a message
Sure is delusional in here.
If the only thing you can say about some music is that its production is good you must be listening to shitty music.
Talking Heads is probably closer to the bell-end of /mu/-core that isn't just different to be different. I still feel like it tries to be different for no tangible or logical reason.
>If the only thing you can say about some music is that its production is good you must be listening to shitty music.
So artists whose music consists of nothing but production must only make albums warranting a 0/10. Like Beethoven.
Use your brain, son.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say production. When I see people talking about good or shitty production it seems they're talking about how well or poorly it's mixed or something like that. Beethoven's music didn't have production (at least until it started being recorded) because it was performed live.
"If the only thing to appreciate about an artist is their production they must be a shitty artist"
Beethoven is an artist who consists entirely of production, therefore Beethoven must be a shitty artist.
Do you follow?
Did you think or consider what you just said AT ALL before you typed it? Because that doesn't make a lick of sense.
Under no circumstances do I go out of my way to pretend to like something to make people think I'm cultured. This is what /mu/ does, and it's fucking retarded.
Yeah, we're talking about objective facts. The type of "production" involved in Beethoven's music is worlds apart from the type of production used by Death Grips. I can't take you seriously anymore after this.
You still haven't critiqued any of the albums/bands on a musical level, btw.
It is a subjective opinion that Beethoven is a better producer than Zach Hill of Death Grips. This is not a fact, this is an opinion.
Make sure to process this information slowly so as not to fry some kind of circuit in that brain of yours.
I never said anything about the quality of production, actually. When I said they were world's about, I didn't say a thing about which one I liked or not. Not that you can understand this.
Still waiting for the actual music critique. Come on, you can do it, you're big boy on /mu/, mom'll be proud.
Talk about the dissonance (or lack of), harmonics, poly-rhythms, SOMETHING in the music instead of just putting up your own vapid argument of this music being essentially meaningless.
I'm talking about the premise, and the premise is that people on /mu/ are pseudo intellectuals who are only interested in sounding profound.
Read: sounding. Not actually being profound, just feeling smarter than everyone else.
Case in point.
You're a fucking moron and what you're saying doesn't make a lick of sense, you're just backtracking because you have too much of an ego to lose an internet argument. Quit being so autistic or kindly fuck off.
>Still waiting for the actual music critique
What, you'd like me to give an in-depth review of all the /mu/-core bands I don't like?
I don't have time for that, but it can best be explained by just being different for absolutely no reason other than to be different.
The Dismemberment Plan's lyrics complete and total random bullshit that correspond to nothing, the singing isn't good, the instrumentals aren't good and their music isn't even slightly interesting.
The Dismemberment Plan may as well be making bubblegum pop music like Nicki Minaj, but they don't because they're hipster morons and they just want to be different.
Death Grips' lyrics complete and total random bullshit that correspond to nothing, the singing isn't good, the instrumentals aren't good and their music isn't even slightly interesting.
>You're a fucking moron and what you're saying doesn't make a lick of sense,
No, you simply misinterpreted what I said, and given that you're the only one in the thread to have done so, it seems you're in the wrong here. I'm not being autistic in the slightest, you're giving up an argument with no actual substance. Put up or shut up.
Lyrics have nothing to do with music. Saying the instrumentals and the singing aren't good isn't enough. Actually describe what's wrong with them, or your critique about them being vapid is hypocritical. Talk about at least one chord sequence and why it's below average. I don't think you're capable of it.
>Death Grips' lyrics complete and total random bullshit that correspond to nothing
On surface level, they sound like random bullshit. But the more you listen to Death Grips the more you realize that MC Ride is talking about actual things happening and he's painting a picture of someone who lives an extremely bottom of the barrel lifestyle.
>the singing isn't good
In almost any other scenario the singing would be terrible. But I wouldn't want anything else than something that sounds like an angry hobo with 4 missing teeth.
>the instrumentals aren't good
Both the instrumentals and production are absolutely incredible.
>their music isn't even slightly interesting.
Their music is a testosterone soaked punch to the stomach from the beginning to the end.
>But I wouldn't want anything else than something that sounds like an angry hobo with 4 missing teeth.
I don't think anyone on /mu/ actually knows what a hobo sounds like.
Everything you're bringing up is subjective btw, which is the point the other anon was making.
>No, you simply misinterpreted what I said, and given that you're the only one in the thread to have done so, it seems you're in the wrong here.
Nobody in this thread has said anything to support what you're saying, what are you talking about? They can't, because it makes no goddamn sense.
>Put up or shut up.
Tell me what to "put up" as concisely as possible and I'd be happy to try.
>Actually describe what's wrong with them, or your critique about them being vapid is hypocritical.
The most concise way to put it is that none of it has any reason at all to exist. It's not trying to be surreal, it's not trying to evoke emotion, it's not meant to do anything. Picking out a specific chord sequence would be incredibly redundant because it's all more or less the same.
Emergency and I by The Dismemberment Plan is the prime example of this, it's just 40 minutes of uninteresting singing about lyrics that make no sense.
>The most concise way to put it is that none of it has any reason at all to exist. It's not trying to be surreal, it's not trying to evoke emotion, it's not meant to do anything.
Subjective. Looking for an objective critique. You can't do it or you already would have.
I understand The Dismemberment Plan's lyrics, it's random bullshit that corresponds to nothing.
"Red wire: right temple
Black wire: left temple
Red wire: right temple
Black wire: left temple
There are times I think eternal life ain’t such a bad gig
Smoke all you want and see the planets
If and only if they find a way to cure the longing
The distant panic
Someday, I’m telling you
They’ll make a memory machine
To wax our hearts to a blinding sheen
To wash away the grief
Someday, I’m telling you
They’ll make a memory machine
To wax our hearts to a blinding sheen
To wash away the grief
There are folks that say to have a soul you’ve got to suffer
Well lately I’ve had my RDA of that
And call it fascist but I know that someday happy"
It is objective (in most all scenarios) that the lyrics being sung about were never deliberately meant to correspond to anything.
There aren't different interpretations because there was never meant to be any interpretation. It's random bullshit.
I am saying that the people creating the music never had any purpose for it to begin with, they just wanted to make "different music" instead of radio-friendly music for the sake of it.
bretty random bullshit lyrics
It's random bullshit. It means nothing, was never meant to and exists for absolutely no purpose. It just wants to be underground and intangible for the average "plebian"
You're never actually providing substance to your arguments, just saying "I'm right and you're wrong and that's that." Lyrics are only one part of songwriting, to say that's a critique which automatically nullifies a piece of music's worth is idiocy.
attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.
The Talking Heads sing about intangible things that correspond to nothing (random bullshit) for absolutely no reason. If they were attempting to paint a surreal portrait, I'd understand, but they don't. They just want to be different.
This song always hits me right in the feels
I am providing substance, it's objective logic about what's deliberate and what has no purpose or reason to exist.
I'm not giving specific scenarios because it would take far too long and it would be incredibly redundant anyway.
The entire album "Emergency and I" by The Dismemberment Plan is one such example of lyrics that mean nothing and have no reason to exist. I'm not saying this just based on the grounds that I don't like them.
Show me some deliberate and sensical Dismemberment Plan lyrics and I'll eat my words. You can't, though.
>being smart or talented
DUDE INSTALL GANOO LMAO
looks like all of you cant read at all
>start going to /mu/
>see interesting looking bands
I guess I'm retarded, then. Explain what this schmuck is on about and I'll eat my words.
What he's saying seems to be loosely connected to some kind of archive of your life stored on a computer that allows you to live forever, but it seems pretty inconsistent and only half-sensical. Kind of like a stoned 15 year old going on about concepts he learned in his philosophy class.
Quote a post where you're giving substance.
It most obviously wouldn't be redundant given that multiple people have asked you to do so.
Who are you to decide why something does or doesn't have a reason to exist? Is the fact that a band wanted to create music not reason enough in your eyes?
He's saying that he thinks being immortal and happy all the time wouldn't be such a bad idea.
These lyrics are incredibly fucking obvious. Say what you want about the quality but it's certainly not random meaningless bullshit.
Alright, song is a poor example then. Maybe TDP is a bad example as a whole if that flew over my head.
It absolutely stands to reason, though. An enormously disproportionate amount of /mu/-core is lyrical random bullshit.
I don't think these artists even set out to do that, though. Some of my favorite songs are lyrically random bullshit but I'm strongly inclined to believe that it exists to coerce emotion in you.
I can't say that about bands like The Doors. God, I hate The Doors.
The Doors are very much about the psychedelic/intoxicated experience. Not saying you need to take drugs/drink to understand their music, but it'll be easier to understand the appeal of them on a basic level.
Women - Heat Distraction:
Smooth and make as was
Smell come in on the train
Then dunk in sacrone
Left at trow's ennui
All ours anchor
To the aching bone
PROGRAMMED without form
Programmed without sound
Austere known your pen
Throats inside of glass
Hanging next to me
Eyes all disappear
Gloss tones speak in turn
Chew in such a rush
Lands strength a rolling home
Lye doesn't moe down
I found myself awake and walking
The two of you arrive
Backs turned to the spitting
But they have not a dream
No ONE was there
Look towards the bay
Becoming very clear
Well, that's because you can't identify with The Doors, so there is no context for you.
I don't like them either, but they're just a rock group.
A lot of music, especially popular music, has the unfortunate tendency of having to build upon the emotional context of already existing music.
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but the band's musical output is more or less musically documenting a certain type of experience. Of course you wouldn't be able to relate to it as much as you could if you haven't had the experience.
This is more like what I was talking about here >>52974355
It seems to be carried by its overall cadence, rather than a narrative, although I'm sure it's about something.
It's what you'd call oblique.
OP is your only objection with Talking Heads or Dismemberment plan that their lyrics don't have some kind of deep underlying theme to them?
Why do you think this is an important enough to completely disregard all other merits of their music? Lyrics are nothing more than a vehicle for presenting the vocals. Do you have any other more concrete issues with the Talking Heads or Modest mouse, specifically about their music and not just the nature of the lyrics.
You keep calling them pretentious, but how are they pretentious in any way. How are they "attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed." in any way? No one except you is claimed what they make is some kind of deep intellectual stimulus. Why can't you see it for what it is, whimsical well crafted and clever music. I understand there are a ton of people who like to prance around about their intellectual superiority for listening to slightly obscure music, but why are you associating that with the artist. Besides, those people are also ridiculed.
Also context is important, most of these bands loved music and dedicated their life to it. The whimsical and somewhat nonsensical nature of the lyrics isn't some half assed attempt to sound deep, they were quite aware of how it comes off as. If you have the slightest idea about their history you'd know how sincere they were to their craft.
I actually enjoy the bands you listed with the exception of Alt-J.
I don't like Alt-J.
It might seem vapid and pretentious to you, but a lot of people enjoy it. Maybe instead of going online to complain about it, you could maybe stop listening? Maybe move on to something else? It's really not difficult.
>I'm saying that their reasons for doing so seem to be entirely superficial
And you say this while your only critiques so far have to do with the lyrics not being straightforward. Also >>52974579
I didn't say it was an absolute that there's no reason for this music to exist, I just said that by and large I look for some reason for this music to have any reason to exist and I can't find any, it seems to consist by and large of pseudo-intellectuals who just want to create something intangible for no reason than they want to be intangible.
>Why can't you see it for what it is, whimsical well crafted and clever music.
If it has no "objective" for lack of a better word to stand on, then it entirely boils down to subjectivity and calling it terrible or well-crafted are both completely valid.
/mu/ doesn't seem to understand that this goes both ways, though.
Astute argument, all in all. I really enjoyed reading that.
I think you misunderstand.
The problem lies in doing something for no other reason than you want people to think you're "cool". There's a plethora of good music that is also intangible and corresponds to nothing.
On /mu/? Abso-fuckinglutely.
In the Aeroplane Over the Sea is an album that was renowned by /mu/ to the point where it became a meme how much /mu/ liked this album. When /mu/ stepped back and evaluated that it was now marginally more popular because of this /mu/ started to hate it.
This board is exponentially levels of hipster stupidity.
Maaaaan. Isn't life hard? You've got all these things to enjoy but you find yourself trying to get permission to enjoy these things from other people. I'd work on not giving a fuck m8.
I learned about if from /mu/, listened to it for a while, and then got over it.
I'm pretty sure I was late to the party, but that's how it goes with popular music. You listen to it for a while, and then maybe you never listen to it again.
>not getting it
Music is subjective and is appreciated on a variety of qualities.
No one person is right or wrong in defining a piece of music, only with the general majority or against the general majority.
They're are elements of music that are pretty universally sought after and appreciated but people are experimenting with these boundaries to create new ideas that others might enjoy.
But OP's gripe doesn't even seem to be with the music itself, but rather with lyric construction and/or the way fans of the music behave, which are not actually aspects of the music.
Just listen to kpop OP and don't visit any other /mu/ threads.
Well for one thing music doesn't need to have some kind of underlying theme to be "meaningful". It also does not need to justify its existence in any way.
Your notion about the purpose of music seems to clearly differ from the general opinion. Most music isn't thematic and isn't meant to express some concrete idea or message. To most people music is something along the lines of self expression through sound. This may be nonsensical or contradictory if it wants to be. I understand why you are so fond of something like DG or GYBE, they do present certain themes and ideas in a very concrete way.
Also these bands were never trying to be "pretentious" when they wrote these songs. I know "indie" music is associated with a certain subculture famous for it's vapid intellectual snobbery but that's not the bands fault in the slightest and most fans certainly don't fall into this category. Some of the aesthetics and choices of their music was a reaction against certain established norms of their time that they objected to, some was just people exploring different ideas and sensiblities (Some which seems to directly conflict against yours it seems) and some of it was just them having fun and silly for the sake of it. It's incredibly presumptuous to assume that they were doing it just for some superficial cultural currency or w/e.
Also just because these ideas and aesthetics are hailed "cool" now, for somewhat superficial reasons it's certainly not the artists fault.
Also I know /mu/ likes to bring out the subjectivity card all the time but even though that is true, there are still some standards that most people subscribe to and when these are broken most people consider the music to be "bad". Most of the bands you criticised seem to meet these unwritten standards most people subscribe to.
Also I think the biggest issue with your argument is you're overlooking the most central aspects of music and focusing on things of marginal importance.
The biggest issue when criticizing music should be about the quality of the music itself, not what it's about. This is where your argument fails, because the music itself is considered by most to be well crafted and interesting. I'm probably not the most qualified person to critically analyze the music though but I'm sure I can find a review or something that does this well enough. (2/2)
/mu/core are just suggestions of various things people may like, it doesn't mean everything on the list is liked by everyone. Only Marcel takes it as something like that, which is why his top 50 are all /mu/core, but he's 14.
idk m8, there's a lot to be said for aesthetic appeal and stage presence. If we wanted a bunch of tones and rhythms that appeal to our brains we've got hundreds of years worth of composed music along with decades of music that explores simplified structures.
I think these days its more about creating engaging, thought provoking experiences, new tone qualities, and a sense of attachment and community.