>inb4 "noone on /mu/ knows theory"
These have worked in the past, so let's try again (and maybe make these a consistent thing.)
Discuss anything theory-related---not restricted to conventional western theory.
a chord based on the flat 2 scale degree. used to prepare a V chord (click the audio examples)
usually used in first inversion (the bass note transposed up an octave)
It's interesting and can help if you're looking to induce a certain feeling, I guess.
Of course, you shouldn't look at it as a rulebook, because the point of music theory is to help make music, not the other way around.
so how the fuck do people write music when they don't know how to read "western music theory"
please no sarcastic answers.
>inb4 just remember it
my memory is shit
i come up with a great riff, then think of new riffs which expand on that riff and i end up forgetting the original awesome riff i came up with.
showing your ignorance there janos
ligeti was highly influenced by african rhythms and polyrhytms
I'd say learn the chromatic scale completely and thoroughly, until you have it perfectly memorized. After that, learn about the major and minor scales.
It might seem simple but theory is complicated and you need to absolutely have the basics down.
gradus ad parnassum
"learn the chromatic scale completely and thoroughly" sounds completely and thoroughly ridiculous
u srs ?
theory is what allows one to make shit that doesn't sound like everyone else's shit
>There is people who thinks knowing music theory somehow actually force you to follow some rules.
It lets you know why and what makes music sound some specific way. The "rules" are nothing but guidelines, that where extracted from music from an era, it wasn´t even a rule back then. People did music certain way and some schoolars abstracted the common practices used.
Nope, it was regarded plebby for counterpoint because one of the goals was to have two or more melodies being heard good and independent. That´s why it is encourage to have melodies move to opposite sides. The second harmonic of a fundamental tone is the fifth tone, If you play lets say C, it does contain the G one octave above, playing the fifth always blend in nicely and stable to a note. When moved in a parallel fashion the melodies separation and independent movement is harder to hear.
But yeah, there is nothing wrong with it, it just won´t help you to differentiate melodic lines at if that matters to you.
Nobody ever said that there was. Music theory doesn't tell you when things are 'right' or 'wrong'. All theory says about parallel 5ths is that they create unity between lines, at the cost of their independence.
Not to speak flatly, but that doesn't seem like the sharp thing to do.
Because muh transposability.
It doesn't matter, nor does music. I like both though.
It really can though.
Start with these online resources:
All three are very similar, just pick the one you like best - they're all laid out in roughly the order you'd learn your first week of a formal music theory course, so be sure to do them start to finish in order.
That should give you a sense of what you're in for. From there, if you don't want to pay to get into a uni course or a private tutor, I would recommend Laitz's The Complete Musician, Clendinning/Marvin's Musician's Guide to Theory and Analysis, Aldwell/Schachter's Harmony and Voice Leading, and Fux's Gradus Ad Parnassum.
>but there shouldn't be any limitations on crafting music.
There aren't any. Having an understanding of the musical structures that you're playing with are and how they interrelate helps to ensure that.
>Doesn't understand equal temperament
Music theory is really just putting names on things and giving explanations to things that happen. Music theory shouldn't really be thought about as something with rules. It can be as free or as narrow as you're willing to make it.
Mark Levin Jazz theory
Learning the chromatic scale isn't very hard. It's just learning the names for all of the 12 notes and realizing that certain notes have multiple names.
Also I'm a music major who with some decent theory background so if anyone has questions feel free to ask.
How good are you when it comes to notational conventions, especially where it comes to polymetric stuff?
Also, how's your jazz harmony?
If the answer to either is better than 'abysmal', I could kind of use a hand with a piece I'm working on?
>>Doesn't understand equal temperament
>doesn't understand differences in fingering, intonation, timbre, and aesthetic unique to each key from according to each instrument's idiom
anyway D minorfag here. on the keyboard its beautifully symmetric and playable and it likewise works wonders on (C) winds and strings
D major is similarly nice and I have soft spots for C major, E major, and C# minor
I understand the timbral effect of register on instruments better than most people, I've taught orchestration, but neither register nor instrumentation are determined by key, so claiming to have a favourite key in equal-temperament is silly.
Since I was hoping for some semi in-depth help, is there a way I can contact you privately and send files and stuff? Skype maybe, or a throwaway email?
he proved there's nothing wrong with parallel fifths auiditorially. Our ears have grown accustomed to perceived dissonances much harsher than parallel fifths. Its fine to avoid them when writing like Bach, but I very rarely analyse my chord progressions or counterpoint and remove parallel 5ths or octaves. just write what sounds good.
They've never been a problem. No one claimed they were intrinsically bad, just poor voice leading where it's desirable to keep lines independent. Besides, Debussy had a penchant for aping eastern music.
Anyway, parallel 5ths have been in popular music for centuries.
Yeah, sorry, I was literally about to post saying that I saw those links on my second read, I tend to just skim a thread I want to ask something in the first time I read it.
Is there anything else I should know, going into learning about this though? Or just follow the guides.
so anyway in the interests of speaking to each other, here's the scale I'm hammering out.
It says E Phrygian Dominant, I wonder if any fifth mode of a scale is a Phrygian dominant? does the fifth mode being dominant tie in with the V dom chord? I wonder...
It has a sound all to itself, like the sound of the scale leads you into playing it a certain way. unlike if I play c major. I guess because it's creating tensions within the scale that aren't in c major?
The guides are pretty well structured. The only thing you might want to add to them is some sort of ear-training app with interval/chord recognition and maybe setting yourself some transcription (by ear, without an instrument to correct yourself with, so that you have to think about scale degrees, etc) homework.
DC has some ear-training stuff for intervals (but none for chords), though they're not very complete, or well-structured. http://www.musictheory.net/exercises is much better, and http://teoria.com/en/exercises/ is the best.
Only things I can tell you to bear in mind is that all the information on all of those online resources are only the very tip of the iceberg, and probably constitute the first week or two of uni (and that's only the theory elements of a uni course - my BMus for example treats raw theory as only one sixth of it's curriculum. If it's composition that you're interested in and want to master, you really need more one-on-one feedback with someone to look over your works and give you advice if you want to make much progress; that said, you'll make infinitely more progress as a composer if you learn theory first, and then go and do that.
Yeah, I'm following the ear training thing on that justinguitar site, pretty bad at it so far, but I'm just going to keep at it I think.
I think I might, I'll have a look around for instructors in my area, I'm not going to pay for an entire uni course, but some basic instruction would be good I think. I know a couple of people in bands, my old music teacher was, I'll see if I can get him to look over it maybe.
Aye. If you want to save money, my best advice is to get through those theory sites, buy one or two of the theory books I suggested below them and work your way through them, then find yourself a friend who composes regularly (preferably for a living, as they'll also be able to give you the basics of professional practice, if that's something you're interested in), and set up to see them once a week or so, to show them what you're working on, what you're listening to and trying to emulate, ask them questions, get advice, etc.
Another thing I would really recommend is teaching someone as you learn. After you've learned the basics, explaining them to someone who doesn't understand is a REALLY good way of sorting it all out in your head and making connections that weren't coming easily.
Yeah, I just don't have the cash to go through a full course, I would if I did. I don't really know if the guy composes, but I figure he'd have to have some knowledge on the topic, I mean, he's a guitarist and a music teacher, so he'd have to have some knowledge on the topic I imagine.
Teaching it sounds really good actually, thanks anon, I have an idea as to who I could maybe teach it to as well, so that should work out well.
Those books should all be on Amazon? I'll check out the local music store, but I don't have much hope, it's not a big store, cool guys, but small time.
so let's fuck around with this because it isn't illegal
1) C Eb G B
2) D F Ab C
3) Eb G B D
4) F Ab C Eb
5) G B D F
6) Ab C Eb G
7) B D F Ab
so it's Ab and Eb
oh my god
C Eb G B
it's a minor major chord! like james bond theme..wow! there's my first diatonic chord of C harmonic major. fucking hell.
major minor chords are great.
a lot of film composers like john barry and williams really know their shit and make use of all sort of interesting devices.
>found a page on diminished substitution from my uni notes
i always forget about little techniques like this
cool, if you play C maj 7 , c mmaj7 , c diminished, c maj 7 it's almost like you're playing a chord progression (like ii v i or something) but I suppose you're pulling in chords from all different scales.
I'm sure that he'll do, given that he teaches... unless he just tutors guitar, rather than teaches music.
Yup. All those books should be on Amazon, and shouldn't be too expensive. Don't bother getting the newest editions if they're more expensive - not much has changed.
>What is orchestration?
Nah, he was the music teacher at my old school, so that could mean anything from a full degree in music theory, to just knowing a bit about instruments, from what I know of the other faculties at least. He was pretty good though, and the best option I have right now, so I think I'll go with that.
Cool, I'll save the names then, and look at them when I'm at that point in learning it then I guess.
Just getting started with Music theory. Using the Dave Conservatoire lessons. Anyone heard of it/is it any good? Looking for a decent keyboard to practice scales and chords, now. These threads are pretty great motivators when I recognize what one of you guys are talking about
you could buy a cheap 49key MIDI controller and torrent a DAW. pretty easy to get set up. should be able to find one second hand for practically nothing.
a full size electric piano is a worthy investment though, and doubles as a MIDI controller.
Thanks. I just I got an akai mpd24 off craigslist and some speakers so I'm just looking for a cheap 49 key. Managed to get Ableton Live 9. I've basically just been playing around with percussions and samples in Ableton while watching tutorials on youtube while I go along with the music theory stuff.
This is probably a stupid question but will learning Music Theory help me if I went to get into doing live shows like a DJ set where I'm mixing live? Pretty much set up this hobby with the long term goal to do an intimate 10 person show in my living room
It would help, yes; but it would not be the most efficient way to get better at that sort of thing.
Understanding functional harmony in particular, and being able to analyse the chord progressions of the tracks that you're DJing for instance could be very useful, but it would also take you a long time and a lot of dedication to learn how to do that on the fly for a live set, and frankly there are more efficient uses of your time that would make your set better quicker.
so G7 being the V chord of C harmonic minor must mean that my G7 arps slot right into it.
so what does the scale do over the other Diatonic chords of the C7 scale?
you'd be playing C maj 7 but describing C m maj 7...
or you've got a jump to Dm7b5 to go to the E maj scale?
I wouldn't be able to jam very well without knowing theory. It makes creating music a lot easier. It doesn't "matter" but it helps. It's frustrating having to show our other guitarist what to do constantly because he doesn't know any theory.