Is there any other artist who's music is as complex, layered, well-written, well-mastered, and tightly performed all while being catchy and emotional?
I'm not trying to say that Radiohead is the only band that can do this. I'd just love to know if there are any other artists like them.
If you're talking about pop artists, im pretty sure steely dan are the tightest group as well as being complex and catchy and all that other shit.
The Beatles and The Beach Boys come to mind. Also Can I guess but they're not as catchy. Van Dyke Parks too actually, and Joanna Newsom, also AnCo and Panda Bear also fit I guess.
Nothing else really comes to mind right now.
>complex, layered, well-written, well-mastered, and tightly performed
this is literally my face irl right now
sadly steely dan isn't a "group". it's a pair of songwriters and co-producers who hire people to play their songs. typically they'll put together the best session musos in the business to make 3-4 different bands. they'll then spend all the time in the studio having each band meticulously record all the songs on the albun over the course of several days. when they're done, they have the album recorded essentially 4 times and then they pick through and keep the best versions, usually resulting in like 50 people contributing to the album, all of which had nothing to do with the creative process per se and were paid to play. also, if there is to be any solos/soloists on a song they usually fly in several god-tier candidates from all over the world and have them tear the world's best solos over the several versions of the songs. it's incredibly political and backstabby to get your solo on the album over everyone else's.
tl;dr: steely dang are creative geniusi but they sure as tits aren't a band
You're overrated radiohead a bit there. I dont think their music is complex, well written or well mastered, nor emotional.
They're ok if you're a teen in the early 2000s, but come on, its 2015
but any group is going to be tight if it's hand-picked from the best musicians. a traditional band has to risk that someone might be a great member of the band but suck at their instrument... U2, Pink Floyd, Aerosmith, Beatles, they all have one. Steely Dan doesn't have to worry about that.
I wouldn't call them shit, but it's pretty alienating when a band is trying so hard to be zany like Beefheart, Zappa, or what I've heard of Cardiacs. I like when bands incorporate tonal and rhythmic intricacy in their music, but when you start to think that modulation, chromaticism, and poly-rhythms are better because they're more intricate you've lost touch. It's narrow in the same way that somebody that's incapable of using those ideas, in the opposite direction. It's actually a sign of greater intelligence to recognize the values in simplicity along side intricacy and use both to balance each other out. Not saying I don't appreciate those guys, but part of me rolls my eyes at people that confuse intelligence for wisdom, or cleverness for depth, or difficulty (performance wise) for quality.
I kinda disagree. A tight group is one that can play well together. You can have musicians that aren't great, but can play really well together aswell as having tonnes of great musicians that just don't click. But having good, experienced musicians does help.
>it's pretty alienating when a band is trying so hard to be zany like Beefheart, Zappa
They are not trying, they just are that way. Not all Zany music is trying to be like Zappa/Beefheart (they do have some Zappa influences though, but not because of his Zaniness).
> I like when bands incorporate tonal and rhythmic intricacy in their music,
That's what Cardiacs do. Playful rhythms and tonal melodies with tasty key-changes in between.
>but when you start to think that modulation, chromaticism, and poly-rhythms are better because they're more intricate you've lost touch.
They have never used any of those elements (except maybe chromaticism, because I don't understand what that is).
Are you sure you actually heard them?
>It's actually a sign of greater intelligence to recognize the values in simplicity along side intricacy and use both to balance each other out.
It's funny that you say that, because Cardiacs use nursery-rhymes-like melodies at times. Their melodies are simple and very complex at the same time some times (See: Gina Lollobrigida)
>Not saying I don't appreciate those guys, but part of me rolls my eyes at people that confuse intelligence for wisdom, or cleverness for depth, or difficulty (performance wise) for quality.
Yeah, they are not like that. They often incorporate a lot of very creative ideas when it comes to things like melody, sounds, structure, etc
Read the OP
I wasn't meaning to bait, I like Karnivool and they're quite good but they're just stuggling to "make it". parrtially it's because a lot of their stuff isn't radio-friendly (nothing wrong with that) but they aren't "good" enough for anybody outside of aus to really have heard of them.
i guess it's the curse of australian music. to far away from the North America, UK, and Europe to join the game, but not exotic enough like japanese or brazilians to be noticed. ;_;
This is what they sound like if you strip down the production and glossy-ness of their songs.
Still well written and reasonably complex imo.
Discipline is good, but not really that catchy.
Favorite moment from the album btw?
Mine's the "I Did" from Indiscipline.
Definitely not catchier than Radiohead, and better... hmmm, I don't know. I would say yes.
They got way catchier on Beat but I found Thela Hun Ginjeet to be catchy. My favorite moment is just the entire title track. The guitars are just smoothly weaving through each other like knots with many altering time signature changes, with the instruments playing in different time signatures at almost all times. All while making it groovy and head bob worthy
Yeah, Thela is the only catchy song. I found the title track boring. Whenn it comes to guitars waving through each other I think the intro from Frame by Frame is a lot better. It's just so colorful!
Wait, are you the guy I replied to or just some random anon?
Anyways, if you want to get into Cardiacs, keep in mind they have a lot of different styles through their career (over 20 years of high quality music). If you want music for the heart, start with A Little Man, if you want mindblowing music, go for Sing to God. Want some Punk with key-changes between the choruses? The Seaside.
Body: The Seaside
Heart: A Little Man and A House
Mind: Sing to God
Zach Hill actually plays instruments. MC Ride is very expressive with his way of screaming.
Also, mastering the use of a laptop for making music is as difficult as learning an instrument.
Faust's self titled.
Haven't heard them. Liked the intro, but when she starts singing sounds like an average mainstream pop artist from USA. The music in the background is cool too, there are some very nice moments. I actually like this a lot. Thanks. Reminds me of Jamiroquai.
Now, it's not really complex or layered.
pretty interesting changes with quite a few extensions. and unusual amount of measures. but maybe not that layered. true its not that layered, and yeah she's a decent singer, but nothing special. feel like they're doing something different.
You're saying that there is no modulation or poly-rhythms in there music? That's plain not true from what I've heard. Maybe I need to listen to more. Give me an example of one of there songs that embraces simplicity for more than a couple bars at a time.
>You're saying that there is no modulation or poly-rhythms in there music?
Tell me where.
>That's plain not true from what I've heard
Again, you still don't tell me what you have heard.
>Give me an example of one of there songs that embraces simplicity for more than a couple bars at a time.
In a Melodic-Pop sense? Bellyeye and Manhoo
Nope, but I will right now.
>Also, mastering the use of a laptop for making music is as difficult as learning an instrument
As difficult as learning an instrument maybe, not nearly as difficult as mastering a real instrument though. If you think so you are a delusional non-musician.
I agree an instrument is slightly more difficult than a laptop, but only because you need coordination. Other than that, they are both as difficult. An instrument is difficult to play, a laptop is not, but for both is as difficult to make good music. Also, it's not like Radiohead has skilled players.
Oh, I thought you were talking about Electronic Modulation. They definitely use Modulation in almost half of their songs (sometimes more than once, in the same chorus).
Can't say about the Chromaticism thing because I don't understand what that is.
No Polyrhythms at all.
They may not be that complex, but they do have some discipline. Listen to Aesthethica.
They have some urgent rhythms, but the harmonies only sound unconventional because they are bright and of a major quality which is virtually unheard of in traditional black metal. That said they have some pretty majestic progressions.
There's more complexity than just scales, chord progressions, and improvisation.
You don't know what art means, that's why you are pretentious. For using the word without knowing what it means.
>MC Ride may sound sophisticated in interviews but on vocals he goes full nigger.
Jazz may sound sophisticated in interviews but when it comes to playing they go full nigger.
I know, but Jazz only seems to get praised because of those three things (with some exceptions).
Snarky Puppy are cool, but definitely not that complex compared to entry-level jazz.
I still don't understand why they have gotten so "popular" in such a short time.
>Jazz may sound sophisticated in interviews but when it comes to playing they go full nigger.
But great jazz players aren't shouting noided cyber age mumbo jumbo, they're playing witty and highly disciplined music on instruments.
>But great jazz players aren't shouting noided cyber age mumbo jumbo
They are, just not during recordings.
>they're playing witty and highly disciplined music on instruments.
They are just playing random notes from a scale, that's not being disciplined.
Also, shouting can be very expressive, and if that was disciplined it would lose it's emotion.
>They are, just not during recordings
I don't know what jazz players you're thinking of, but regardless they aren't nigging on their recordings or live sets like some screaming homeless men.
>They are just playing random notes from a scale, that's not being disciplined.
Kek. No wonder it sounds random, you obviously can't play.
>Also, shouting can be very expressive, and if that was disciplined it would lose it's emotion
But shouting words shouldn't just be someone's whole gimmick.