>best overall track
>best overall solo
Coltrane on Flamenco Sketches
>Miles on So What
discuss/argue/make your own for other favorite jazz albums
Miles Runs the Voodoo Down
Miles on the runner up
Goodbye Porkpie Hat
Fables of Faubus
Goodbye Porkpie Hat
Self Portrait in Three Colors
Pussy Cat Dues
Charge 'Em Blues
Rick Kick Shaw
You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To
Too hard to classify which parts are solos exactly (either everything is or none of it is), so no such category here for me at least.
Syeeda's Song Flute
Syeeda's Song Flute- Coltrane
(didn't mean to reply earlier)
No, but I don't think that makes a difference.
Honestly it's a touch choice, I just know I like La Sorrela the best. I guess as the last cut it just starts to become a bit overbearing, but I can definitely see someone liking it over the others.
Eye of the Hurricane
Hubbard on Dolphin Dance
Survival of the fittest
The Boy Next Door
>best overall track
>best overall solo
Eric Dolphy's solo is amazing
Don Cherry, his contributions in the improvs of others is always top notch
Freddie Hubbard, although he gets into it towards the end. I just think he was the least 'free' I guess
Shorter on Speak No Evil
Fee Fi Fo Fum
I tried to explain that Ornette album to a friend, and he was just looking at me like "that just sounds really self indulgent and pretentious"
I get that it might be both of those things, but that doesn't detract from the fact that it's still very very good listening
Though to be fair, Kind of Blue is a good starting point to Cool/Modal Jazz
I remember listening to The Shape of Jazz to Come as a jazz virgin, and having a considerable headache
You could argue for days about what jazz albums are the "best" and there are hundreds of valid choices.
Some good ones for beginners are
Kind of Blue
Study in Brown
Mingus Ah Um
Kind of Blue by Miles Davis is a good start to Modal Jazz, and is generally great Jazz
Get the Charlie Parker Omnibus to have an intro to the Bebop movement, at over 3 hours it should keep you busy.
John Coltrane's album My Favourite Things is a good album showcasing his INCREDIBLE chops
Really don't bother with Avant-garde until you get your head around bebop, and Free Jazz is best left until you're happy with how more 'normal' jazz works, don't want to scare you away
Conference of the birds
All solos of a conference of the birds
Already started with Davis, loved Kind of Blue. Also, should I start following a chronological order or it is better to handpick a few sub-genres of jazz that are better for a new listener, and from that, make myw ay through the most difficult ones?
Also, is there a specific type of jazz that has that nocturnal vibe you would find in a noire movie?
If you find one genre or album that you really enjoy then just start exploring similar albums. If you liked Kind of Blue then check out Somethin Else, Milestones, and Blue Train...
also that film noir style of jazz probably falls under "cool jazz"
>I recommend smoking some marijuana while enjoying your jazz, it's not necessary to enjoy the music of course, but it will almost certainly increase your focus on the music and enhance your appreciation of it
>should I start following a chronological order or it is better to handpick a few sub-genres of jazz that are better for a new listener, and from that, make myw ay through the most difficult ones?
For starters I would definitely avoid chronological approach when it comes to jazz, it's way too daunting. Just try to look for what ticks you and then work towards each direction from there.
>Also, is there a specific type of jazz that has that nocturnal vibe you would find in a noire movie?
Not sure what you _exactly_ mean, but I'd say just jazz from the 40s in general, except bebop perhaps. I don't think you could pinpoint it to a specific genre or style (though someone more knowledgeable could correct me).
Hard Bop has that feel to it, it's cool jazz without any happiness really.
I reckon sub-genres may be the best bet, if you went chronologically with Coltrane (for example) you'd find yourself knee deep in Free Jazz pretty soon.
Saying that, I jumped from minimal knowledge of bebop and modal into Ornette Coleman and loved it, so here's one of his albums just in case you like it
This is Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come
I disagree. I think Coltrane uses the tension the best of any of them, especially during that harmonic minor section and then resolves it beautifully. It's an especially simple and melodic moment for Coltrane who's not usually known for his simplicity and strong sense of melody.
Thanks again, one more question, what should I know to appreciate jazz songs more, the technical aspects of it and how a good jazz listeners decides whether a song is good or not? I'm completely ignorant about solos etc..
Well hard bop is largely influenced by blues and was pretty exclusively black music, and only came about at mid 50s quite a bit after noir films had pretty much vanished. Cool jazz would indeed be a better choice for such a style. It's "whiter" jazz, which is something I've always associated with the noir films.
Shape Of Jazz To Come is a good candidate though.
It's all about interplay bro. Listen to how what the players are doing relates to the other players. It's all about how they react to and influence the direction of the improvisation.
You don't need to know a lot of theory or play an instrument to hear this stuff, but it might just take some experience with close listening to start catching it. Those who play jazz or have a strong theory/audiation background usually find it easier to catch those small details just because they have experience listening for them.
Next Stop Tsukiji
Tempest in a Teacup
-too hard- maybe Binney on Tempest
>runner up best composition
>best overall track
>best overall solo
Coltrane on Amen
McCoy on Dearly Beloved
Henderson or Tyner on Recorda Me
Is it weird that I'm not that into anything before Charlie Parker so far? I guess this is what's called the "bop" era? I mean, I definitely don't think Satchmo's stuff sucks, but I don't find it compelling so far.
/mu/'s biggest mistake is reccing people albums that have more than five minutes of soloing. We should be starting people off with compilation style albums of some fantastic players where they only solo for a minute or two. Kind of Blue is an exception to the rule because the soloing is so easy to follow while still being great.
So what's you guys' opinion on Moondog?
The few bits i've just discovered sound very much like a rather minimalistic effort, consisting of minimal amounts of noodling and crappy solos i hear in other jazz that i never liked.
Funny i could care less about byrd and bop. It's not to say i can't listen to it, but it there's better jazz out there. Shit i always forget how great this album is.
not necessarily... It's not really compelling in the same way that most bop and bop-influenced jazz is.
Pre-bop music focuses more on melody. It becomes compelling when you start to hear the influence that these players had on bop players and how the bebop guys used some elements of swing but updated certain aspects of it.
Is pic related actually considered at the same tier as BADBADNOTGOOD and fly lo? Every time I see it mentioned on /mu/ it's always in that kind of context as incredibly low bar entry level jazz for hipsters.
I'm a saxophone player with some questions about jazz- If I'm to solo over a C7 chord, for example, would I use all of the notes from a C major scale except flat the B? Or would I try to hang around the chord tones as much as possible? Similarly, what notes would I play on a Cm7 chord?
It's an interesting experiment definitely... I'd put it above BBNG... Maybe around the level of Fire Orchestra in that it's jazz influenced music but it seems to be most often celebrated by rock fans.
F Harmonic Minor if you want to play the flat 9 & flat 13
F Melodic Minor for the flat 13
D Diminished if you want to play all of the altered notes (b9, #9, b5, #5/b13)
You could also use a whole tone scale starting on F, G, A B, C#, D# but whole tone scales in my opinion are difficult to use in a tasteful manner
Coin Coin is a legitimate jazz album and a really good one. It just happened to be released by Constellation, so it received a lot of exposure in the "hipster" circles. BBNG isn't even close to touching it.
all the notes are valid. It's just about how you use them.
In a bebop context they'd probably play the the scale you mention (C mixolydian) but with the B natural as well. They could also add in blue notes of Eb, F#, or Ab. Or they'd maybe just play a blues idea using the C blues scale or pentatonic scale. The main goal there is to emphasize the important chord tones (3rd and 7th) by playing them on string beats.
In most post-bop contexts you'd probably want to add some extensions or alterations to the 5th, 9th, 11th, or 13th, effectively making all twelve notes a valid part of the chord (the only exception being the F natural, which still won't sound bad if used effectively as a passing tone.) this starts opening you up to other available scales (altered scale, Lydian dominant, whole tone... Etc.)
Your best bet is to start with basic chord tones and work on arpeggios then with the basic mixolydian scale and work on simple melodies and variations using that scale. Check out the written melody over that chord for melodic/rhythmic ideas. Then gradually add on extensions and alterations and their implied scales.
even if that were true it's got the least imaginative and interesting piano comping, the least interesting melody and form (it's a pretty traditional blues) and one of Miles' weaker solos.
depends what the piano player does. i feel like you rarely hear vanilla dom7 in jam sessions, you get all the substitutions and altered pitches. the more open the chord sounds, the more notes you can get away with, though traditionalist say you have to play the 7 and the 3.
bear in mind those albums were 7 years apart, TSoJtC was out in the same year as Kind of Blue, it was pushing boundaries for it's time.
You can't compare the 'trane's avant stuff with Ornettes, it's like complaining how Black Sabbath aren't heavy when you could have Napalm Death
>it's different than another album that was recorded 6 years later
not exactly a valid criticism. you don't have to love the album but it really did push some boundaries for the time. maybe not to the extent that most of /mu/ has been led to believe but it was an important step in the evolution of the music that led up to Coltrane's later recordings.
Been loving this recently, anybody rec something similar?
Hi guys, just listening to Blue Train right now, it isn't bad, but it sounds a bit too fast and excited for my tastes, does that mean I won't like anything from Coltrane? Suggestions on more "calm" and slow albums for beginners?
Jazz pleb here looking to dive a little deeper into the genre, anybody know what subgenre of jazz this is or any more like it?
why don't you listen to some yourself and decide?
although if you think all of it can be lumped into one of those categories and are ready to believe the opinion of a random stranger about it maybe you shouldn't even bother
Eddie Gale - Eddie Gale's Ghetto Music
Noah Howard - The Black Ark
Chris McGregor's Brotherhood Of Breath - S/T
Woody Shaw - Blackstone Legacy
Henry Franlin - The Skipper
Leon Thomas - Blues And The Soulful Truth (maybe...)