had a successful thread yesterday. Let's try today.
Since Mingus is considered by many to be one of jazz's most important composers, what do you consider to be his second best compositional achievement (assuming that most of you would choose Black Saint as his first.)?? How about specific tunes?
I've been on a huge Gary Burton fix lately, and it's great. He swings like a mother fucker and I love his phrasing. He also put out an album with astor piazzolla. That's a bonus for me because I love nuevo tango
it's on spotify. Really cool album too
I really enjoyed this hearing it for the first time the other day. Is this the most impressive line-up ever on an album, or would that be the one on Miles & the Modern Jazz Giants, or... somethin' else?
Maybe not as complex but I absolutely love the Clown. But Ah Um (to be more specific, Goodbye Lester Young is probably the best jazz composition of all time). It's just the best thing he ever wrote.
It's hard to beat kind of blue... I mean that's one of the first albums people hear so sometimes you forget how crazy that lineup actually is.
Also Blues and the Abstract Truth is up there too.
So what are everybody's dream lineups?
Def. agree. Descent into the Maelstrom is a great album.
Both of Miles's quintets are pretty stacked imo.
Miles Davis — trumpet
John Coltrane — tenor saxophone
Red Garland — piano
Paul Chambers — bass
Philly Joe Jones — drums
Miles Davis — trumpet
Wayne Shorter — tenor saxophone
Herbie Hancock — piano,
Ron Carter — bass
Tony Williams — drums
- Let My Children Hear Music
- Pithecanthropus Erectus
If you like Mingus and want something similar, check out:
- Duke Ellington
- Gunther Schuller
- Gil Evans
- Miles Davis with Gil Evans
- Mal Waldron
- Eric Dolphy
Mingus fits with Blakey, he most swingy drummer and the most swingy bassist. what could go wrong?
blakey is way better at keeping the groove though max is the better soloist.
Definitely Blues & Roots; in fact, it's comparable to Black Saint in my opinion.
Wynton Marsalis is coming to where I am, I really want to see him, but tickets are probably going to be impossible to get and super motherfucking expensive
Speaking of which Reincarnation of a Lovebird off the Clown is such hot fire. I definitely think one of his best compositions. The ode to Lester Young is beautiful. He also has an ode to Eric Dolphy (played with Eric Dolphy right before he died) on the Cornell 1964 album that breaks my heart.
And since no one has mentioned Pithecanthropus Erectus yet, booYA:
Is anybody else a fan of pianoless jazz groups? Something about them feels purer, a bit more primitive but also a bit more energetic.
I really enjoy that sound sometimes which is weird since I'm a pianist. It's a cool trend that's kind of been coming back in the past few years. Lots of great chordless albums have come out lately.
Most rock listeners tend to like more in your face 'experimental' jazz. You know, late Coltrane, Dolphy, Mingus, Bitches Brew, etc. The funny thing is, most of the experimental stuff isn't nearly as good as the traditional stuff that inspired it. Rock fans just seem to latch onto stuff that's more aggressive, better produced, louder, and more exciting- like Sun Ra and Pharoah Sanders.
>Most rock listeners tend to like
Maybe in the shithole where you live.
I suppose it's sort of a personal opinion. But in my eyes, jazz lost a lot of important things when it became more a 'sonic' genre than a harmonic genre. Coltrane's late experiments with sound and the limits of the horn were interesting, but they're nothing compared to a great solo over a great composition, in my mind.
What you're describing never stopped being made, and is still the most lasting variant of jazz to this day.
Experimental works are celebrated as high points because they are compositionally challenging and often demand more from the listener.
Hank Mobley - Soul station
Mobley on sax
Paul Chambers on bass
Wynton Kelly on piano
Art Blakey on drums
Paul Chambers - Paul Chambers quintet
Paul Chambers on bass
Tommy Flanagan on piano
Donald Byrd on trumpet
Clifford Jordan on sax
Elvin Jones on drums
pic related is also pretty impressive
It was the natural progression. The same thing sort of happened in Western art music as well- things started going more to the theoretical side, pushing the limits of what was music and what wasn't. If jazz was to go on, it would have to go the route it did. I just don't enjoy listening to and probably wouldn't enjoy performing the freer stuff as much as the more traditional stuff.
I don't think they're well known acts though.
I'll give you Sun Ra because he's pretty much the face of weird free jazz musicians (and he's more known for his philosophy than for his music), but if something, a rock fan pretending to like jazz would like Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Mingus and all the critically acclaimed musicians.
Does anybody have any thoughts on this album? Just got it the other day and I don't remember ever seeing it mentioned much here.
Jackie McLean (alto sax)
Johnny Griffin (tenor sax)
Eric Dolphy (bass clarinet)
Bandleader: Charles Mingus
Playing compositions by Thelonious Monk
Disagreed, this is basically half of Mingus's working sextet in the mid sixties plus a Monk cohort, plus an ex Mingus cohort, most of whom are Monk fanboys. The only one I'm not sure about is Elvin Jones but I've never heard him play badly. Safer choice Billy Higgins.
Have been scouring the web to find Mingus and Elvin Jones playing together. Just now realizing that one of my favorite albums (pic related) has Miles, Mingus, and Jones all killin it.
WELL HELLOOOOO CONSUMER
YES HELLOOOO CONSUMER
BA BA BA BA BADA BA
BEBOP COLAAAAAA YEEEAAAAAAHHH
Something has to form from all these different genre. Two bop musicians, two modal musicians, one tall angry ass mingus, and far wes. It would be one super album then the group would dissolve due to personalities.
>not liking Duke's Money Jungle
Couldn't stand Pithecantropus at first but now it's pretty good. Ah Um would be my second favorite of his.
Mingus and Pharoah would be close up there too
It's like you haven't heard of "The Quintet", dudes
Coleman's Free Jazz and Cecil Taylor - Conquistador
Not a lot of times, just sometimes. And Money Jungle was clearly a Duke album and not much of a collab (outside of Roach and Mingus playing their instruments and all)
Have you heard Bud Powell's Trio recording? In my opinion offers a better performance than Duke on that album, and same side men too.
Roach is such a fucking wonderful drumer.
My lineup is going to look like Kind of Blue, but whatever. Keep in mind I'm trying to put guys who could play together in this group. Here it is:
>Cannonball Adderley (alto)
>Miles Davis (trumpet)
>Jeff Hamilton (drums)
>Michael Brecker (tenor)
I'm not sure Michael could play with these guys and I don't think these guys would play with Michael.
>John Coltrane (tenor)
>Herbie Hancock (piano)
>Sarah Vaughn (vocals)
>Paul Chambers (bass)
>Milt Jackson (vibes)
Take the vocalist out except on one song. I swear Sarah Vaughn has one of the best solos ever recorded, in general.
I'm actually listening to Somethin' Else and I have to say it seems kinda odd that it's supposedly a Cannonball Adderley record and the one that is playing the melodies is Miles Davis.
So far it seems like a good choice, I just never seen that before.
Pic related and this
That electric line up is too good to ever exist :(
Jackie McLean - Destination Out works really well for me on rainy days. That vibraphone, the trombone, that chilling bass...
How does it compare to the rest of Schlippenbach's work? I heard Plays Monk and it was delightful but haven't bothered with his others yet...
What about your thoughts on it?
>rock guy sees jazz subgenres on wikipedia
>picks the one he can apply non-jazz analysis to
It ends up being fusion for the rock references and free jazz for the cred/"wow I don't get it, so it's good"/heavy factor
I still love free jazz though
I think you might as well be honest and just get heavy into dope funk if you can't enjoy jazz. Better at parties too. Medeski Martin wood shit. Hendrix has some great shit that has a free feeling similar to jazz. Voodoo Chile.
Yeah you'd think it would be fusion but many rockists tend to think that fusion is too white and not "authentic" enough so they often glorify albums that feature- aggressive playing, pseudo-spirituality, neat costumes, cool album covers, or are in some way inaccessible. Or preferably some combination of these. This explains the popularity of these artists and albums among /mu/'s rock fan base.
Trying to remember the name of a jazz/nu-jazz group
Pretty sure they were german, used flutes a lot.
One of their albumn covers was a black/white city with a river running through it, pretty sure either the river or the buildings were yellow
pic related, please help.
I love baritone but never heard it on a jazz record (Joe McPhee plays baritone?)
So tenor for the most part. Usually find alto too hysterical but when they know how to play it it's blissful (Trane and Jackie McLean know it)
that's like saying I could just rename it "names of musicians" because all the replies fit into that category too
>the entire outputs of two extremely prolific artists are less challenging than an entire genre
no but he goes against the spirit of the music he likes which is fucking retarded.
>HURR DURR LEZ MAK FUN OF PIPEL DAT LEIK MOOSIK I DON LAIK!! XDD
just be happy people listen to jazz instead of kanye west or something
This community could use a little elitism. Maybe then we can move past having jazz threads that consist almost entirely of posting the same 30 album covers with a post that says something along the lines of "this is good" or "this is shit" and nothing else
lol now who's acting like a child. point out to me again where anybody said those artists were bad or even that they didn't like them. that post was just pointing out that those artists tend to be the favorites of rock fans who want to get into jazz. Frankly I'm confused why that upsets you so much or why it'd be considered elitism.
Well once again you'll have to point out to me where anybody said "those artists are only liked by rockists"
I'm sorry if it hurt your feelings to know that rock fans like the same jazz as you. Once again I'll point out that I don't see anywhere in the thread where anybody's saying that those artists are bad or that it's impossible that they could be liked by people other than rock fans.
>that post has no place in the world of jazz and music in general.
I want you to think about what you just said. I want you to read it and really take in how much of a bell end you are. I know this is hard so you might want to think about what somebody else would be thinking reading it.
I'm not that guy hun. From an outsiders point of view though, you sound either underage, drunk, immensely upset or retarded. Also, stop being so Goddamn sensitive. You're on 4chan.
I thought it was a somewhat amusing observation about the tastes of some of /mu/'s jazz fans. I'm sorry if you didn't find it amusing but I thought I'd post it in case any others did.
Check this out though... The next time somebody posts something dumb that makes you mad- instead of replying angrily and exaggerating what was originally said to have something to justify your anger- try just scrolling past the comment and thinking about something else. It's way easier.
well i'm kind of drunk and it's 3:00 am but i always get mad at stupid people like him
and /jazz/ was always a good accepting community where people's were appreciated and good discussion was the norm. guess that changed.
Nah man. Everyone always thought that Brotzmann tier jazz was shit and the taste of the collective was always pretty conservative (relatively speaking). If you talk about Chris Potter, Woody Shaw or Wayne Shorter they're excepting.
It's not that the original comment was bad. It -was- kind of amusing and I even think it's an astute observation. It's just the way you handled the response to it that was a little uncouth.
See, if you really believed what you've said in this post I'm quoting, you wouldn't even have responded in the first place. I would assume that you are the kind of person that is perceptive and this sometimes gets you in hot water with people, but that you don't know how to handle their emotions, so you brush it off. There's this thing that really bitchy but clever high school girls do where they make a technically benign comment that's undercut with sarcasm, so they can hurt another girl's feelings while staying out of trouble -- like telling a morbidly obese girl she should try out for the cheerleading squad. I don't think this kind of thing was your intent, but the effect is the same.
tldr what you're saying and what you're doing to perpetuate the conversation are in conflict.
been listening to a lot of ray brown recordings. he's just the greatest bass player ever imo. so smooth, swingy, knows when to "show off" and when to just do his small part. He plays very simple but for some reason it's just perfect. don't dislike anything about him, as for the recordings I heard, (mostly oscar peterson stuff), though groovie as fuck there's no denying that it's not really bringing anything new to table or something very intriguing. but it's still amazing.
how bout u?
Why is Dixieland so awesome?
Share your favorite songs!
>Jabbo Smith - Jazz Battle (1929)
It's a fucking masterpiece!
Also, the first single of The Original Dixieland Jazz Band is awesome too
You're fairly astute yourself. I feel like that scene from The Wire where the FBI reads their psychoanalysis of the strangler and they perfectly describe McNulty. And of course you're right. I should have followed my own advice and just never responded. I guess the difference to me is that I was never mad and I felt like that other poster's anger was misguided because they interpreted that original post incorrectly.
I've always been good at getting under people's skin if I want to with well-timed biting sarcasm. Maybe it's good for me to get that out of my system on the internet instead of real life.
Yeah I agree. I love Ray Brown and he's definitely up there with the greatest bassists ever. It is interesting how he picked a style and petty much stuck with that fairly conservative style for most of his career. I guess he knew what he did well and you can tell the band is having fun playing on most everything he plays on.
I guess that brings up the question of whether you think something has to be new and innovative to be great or whether you can achieve greatness just by mastering an already established style.
Being intelligent and perceptive is a curse because a lot of times you just want to bounce your thoughts off your peers and you end up ruffling feathers, when really you're just trying to incite laughter or make people think in a new way.
I think that Ray Brown did bring some new elements though. Like how he would get very "free" with his playing sometimes and not just walk it but he'll play some lines that compliments the soloist. He didn't do it as much as scott lafarro, but he still did it.
I don't think that you HAVE to bring something new or innovative to be great. What's important is to know what you like, and have a personal style so that you'll be able to express yourself properly.
this might grow into an interesting conversation but i gotta go to bed now so good night anon.
Louis Armstrong is cool, but very subtle. I prefer the more polyphonic bands.
The Original Jazz Band's first single is awesome, for example. I love their noisy improvs mixed with this particular joyus Dixieland feeling.
Any Bebop I should check out now?
Oh, and what Django album should I listen to first?
Okay, NEVER ask that kind of question for an artist that was around before the album era (late 50s - early 60s). If you are interested in old music, listen to compilations.
>Oh, and what Django album should I listen to first?
Django wasn't really an album artist, if you know what I mean. It's better to look for a giant collection of stuff he did. 'The Classic Early Recordings in Chronological Order' is the collection I'd recommend. You could probably find it somewhat easily for free online, and if you buy music it's less than 30 dollars. You get pretty much everything notable that he did in chronological order. Huge collections like these are the best ways to get into artists who recorded in that time period.
>Any Bebop I should check out now?
If you haven't already, look for some Charlie Parker recordings. I found a download of the Complete Savoy and Dial Studio Recordings that's served me well, but you should be able to track down some good collections if you do a bit of research. Here's a taste of him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MCGweQ8Oso. His soloing is absolutely mind shattering, especially if you're a sax player like myself. Also check out Bud Powell, perhaps the most well known bebop pianist- The Amazing Bud Powell is a great recording to check out by him, it's one of my all time favorites. Here's a standout tune from that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVNtHCnPUZw.
You might also be a fan of some of the 'chordless' jazz groups- they take away the piano, and as a result have a certain primitive energy to them. Here's a pretty big variety of what you can get from those:
I have a feeling you'd also be a big fan of Eric Dolphy- but I'd almost recommend waiting a bit before you get into the stranger sounding jazz artists. A good fundamental knowledge of the genres roots and pivotal players will go a long way and enhance your appreciation of the people that deconstructed those influences and/or brought them back in full swing later on. A
Thanks for the good post!
>Django wasn't really an album artist
I know, I just use album as a synonym for recording. Even then, a compilation is an album (usually).
I have already heard some Parker, but that was like a year ago.
I really like Saxs c:
Now, the "chordless" thing seems more interesting, will listen to those ASAP.
Eric Dolphy is cool, but haven't enjoyed his stuff on a very intense level yet.
My favorite Jazz Albums are Duke Ellington's At Newport, and Charles Mingus' The Clown. Both first tracks are awesome because of the brass sections and this very upbeat/energetic feel. Still, I don't get enjoyment from jazz soloing with some very specific exceptions.
Since this is a jazz thread, I'm going to assume that you guys are familiar with the proper sounds of saxophones. I'm a young guy who hasn't been playing the tenor too long- started on alto and switched when I realized that I liked the range and texture of the tenor better. I just want to hear what you guys have to say about my tone and stuff. This is just me improvising a bunch of random shit to give you a good feel for how I play. Thanks for any help.
>this whole thread
>no mention of the man who is basically the face of brazilian jazz
What do you think of Antonio Carlos 'Da God' Jobim?
I think Im more of a soft jazz/bop guy
any more stuff like this?
Dixieland is the best
If you want more polyphonic Louis, listen to his early stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MvPqqmQ1Ss
I'm more of an old Pres' Hall guy myself
there are some good modern acts too
I wish this would come back. Sans fedoras