ITT: campervans. Have you a campervan ? What do you think of travelling/camping in a van ? Tipps, experiences... ?
Van is love
Van is light
Not a campvan, but a Scamp is super lightweight and you don't need a truck to tow it.
I've been (S)camping with a buddy of mine in the Colorado Rockies. It'll go just about anywhere, and is a good home base to have near a trailhead.
>What do you think of travelling/camping in a van?
They're pretty cool but I've always preferred pop-up campers, particularly
the insulated aluminum and fiberglass A-frame types by Aliner and Chalet.
A pop-up camper is cheeper to buy, the insurance costs are lower, it's easier
to store in the off-season, provides more interior space which is easier to access
and allows you to leave the camper at your camp site and drive the vehicle into
town or wherever.
They're pretty expensive; +/- $10,000 for a used newer model.
>Van is love
>Van is light
Westfalia is German for love.
My uncle lives out of a converted Royal Mail Post Van. He's put in a bed, stove and icebox for food storage. Its kinda cool and all but not really comfortable for more than a few hours of being inside and not sleeping due to the low roof. That said, at £800 including furnishings, its served him pretty well for the last 5 years as he's toured Europe in it.
When I'm older, richer and not in Uni, I hope to do something similar but I think I'll get something with a bit more height in the back like a Ford Transit and do a proper conversion with lighting, wall panelling etc.
I really like the idea of those save for one aspect - it's impossible to just park up anywhere you fancy and sleep in the thing without putting it in full "HEY EVERYWONE I"M CAMPING HERE" mode. That's kinda important to me if not everyone. Shame really because for all the reasons you mention they're pretty dam good devices.
I'll take a look once I'm home at the weekend, but I doubt it. If the thread's still alive in a week or two I'll upload some pics then as he's leaving in my garage over winter while he travels round India.
> Astro camper van
Now that would have been cool, as Astros (and the S10/15 trucks they were based on) were good vehicles and could be had with all-wheel drive (or modified for 4x4).
I own a soccer mom Toyota Symphony that had been passed down through everyone until it sat on the driveway, unused, for a year or so.
I love camping, especially when I can just take off whenever shit gets too shit, so the van seemed good choice.
Got it tuned up, took out the back seats, invested in some decent camping stoves, and saved a friend's old, thin mattress.
I've used it occasionally as a cobbled together mobile tent. Any diy suggestions to improve or give me inspiration?
Any personal experiences with this? I know it's not replacing backpacking, but it's stll a super cheap way to give yourself a reasonable vacation.
Tldt; I love my hand me down van and wNt to get more love out of her (on a diy budget)
I think its awesome. My cousin lives in a DHL van (biggest size) that he made into a RV type thing with a kitchen / cabinets / bed / seating and table. It's really nice. for a whole week we just parked next to a creek to fish all day and when we came back your in a house with everything you need
This thread is relevant to my interests as well.
Not that anon but that's a stupid argument.
You're saying that an expedition tent on Everest isn't camping because it costs less than sticks woven together in Africa. That's right, there are still tribes on Africa that use sticks to build their house.
I live full time in a Westy, but also have a Syncro that I'm putting a modern engine into and converting it to a camper.
One thing I will say to those that dream of westys or Vanagons in general, have a toolkit and learn how to use it..
Not a van but take pic related camping now, that way if it rains or something I just take all the shit out and put it under a tarp, unroll my swag in the back and sleep in the car, shit's comfy.
According to Mr. Heaters formula (Cubic Feet x Temperature Increase x .133 = Required BTUs) I think I should be fine with the Little Buddy (Heats up to 3,800 BTU/HR) in a Chevy Astro (170 cubic feet) while trying to achieve an unnecessarily toasty 70F in -40F weather (110F increase).
170 * 110 * 0.133 = 2,487.1 < 3,800
Am I missing something?
Mr buddy does not quite have enough BTUs to heat a van when its really cold.
Also not super safe to run for extended periods .
One cheesy oxygen sensor is the only thing keeping you alive.
Also they suck at high altitude.
Oh and unvented propane is full of moisture so your whole van gets sopping wet by morning.
>Mr buddy does not quite have enough BTUs to heat a van when its really cold.
I have disagree.
We used a Mr.Buddy standard model (hooked to a 20lb tank) in a pop-up camper for deer hunting in Michigan for years
and even on the low setting, it was too warm. In the mornings, sparking up a single mantel propane lantern would heat
the camper up t-shirt levels within minutes.
> Also not super safe to run for extended periods
We'd crack the roof vent a 1/2" and sufficient outside air leaked in that I'm still here today.
In a van, I'd crack two windows, maybe the driver's side and a tip-out in the back door.
> Oh and unvented propane is full of moisture so your whole van gets sopping wet by morning.
Depending the humidity outside, that can be an issue with any heater.
Hunted a Thanksgiving weekend one time when it rained every day and snowed every night and waking up the first morning,
I thought the pop-up camper had sprung a leak, as the foot of my sleeping bag was soaked from all the humidity dripping down
the walls inside.
These are exorbitant, but pretty cool, here's one in action:
I'm semi neet so probably can't do a second vehicle atm (other than a enduro moto, which is my first priority), so I'm looking to outfit my DD AWD wagon/crossover into a camper. (Midwestern atm so it's not like I need anything too off-road ready.)
It's massive so plenty of room to fit a mattress for me and my partner, but I'll probably have to do cooking/sink on a mobile setup.
I'm trying to figure out where to put my marine batteries, right now I'm thinking of getting a trailer hitch and fold down storage, and putting it out there, along with a bike rack.
Have you seen the Topgear where they attempt to destroy a Hilux?
Those emergency blanlets. Similar foil is to be found at a hardware store in the gardening section.
Just lining it with polar like blankets helps - get as large ones as possible and fit them in accordingly.
Not cheap but best: DYNAMAT. Makes it quiet, insulates.
I'm saving up for either a transit or sprinter van.
Can't wait. I've lived my car and that was OK. Downsides were no privacy and having to find secluded parking without attracting attention from people/police.
I also had a 97 ford van that broke down so I camped in the same spot for a few months.
I plan on making it super comfy/stealthy/organized/insulated(sound,thermal)/sexy( I plan on fucking bitches)/out/g/v/.
>those bars above the solar panel
that shit will lose you over 50% of your watts. fucking fuck
I don't have a van but I do own a truck.
Its a light truck with a single cab and a raised PVC canopy.
My camping kit is basically a foam mattress and a wool blanket.
Worst thing about 'camping' with it is there is no place to shower
I'm planning to do some crazy, soul-searching life adventure through Europe after I get my degree for like 2-6 months. I wanna travel all over the place while I'm there, so would it be a terrible idea to get a camper van or a small truck with a cabover and live in that for the time? I don't know how prevalent they are overseas, but I feel like I could find one for maybe 2 or 3 grand that would last me for a few months.
Plenty of decent vans in Europe under €2000 or even less.
You should know that most of your cost will go towards paying Insurance and road tax, depending on the country.
Don't buy anything from UK. It will be rotten from rust.
The older MkII, MkIII Mk IV, Mk V Ford Transit series of vans are cheap and very reliable, but also noisy, dirty, and old.
Plus they are mostly workman's vans and will be beat to shit.
Peugeot Boxer, Fiat Ducato, Citroen Jumper, Mercedes Sprinter and the newer Transit all drive like cars and you may even find some in Automatic Transmission.
Smaller vans like Peugeot Partner, Renault Kangoo, Citroen Berlingo, Mercedes Vito, Fiat Doblo, VW Transporter, Transit Connect
are big enough for a person to sleep in but still small enough to find parking spaces in a city.
All of the above basically come in panel van and passenger carrier variants.
You should also consider an Estate wagon or a Mini-Van.
>never being able to stand up
>using a coach bed
nice. good idea.
>dual burner soove
Overkill. In such limited space a single burner stove would be better. and could be put away and thus free that entire table up.
>no picture of the shitter
>what looks to be zero ventilation or windows
Pic from a Sprinter van conversion from /diy/ (though the updated pic showed AGM batteries).
>That's pretty cool but where poop?
Nearby fast food joints and such.
Hay, you wanted to live in a van....
I actually did sleep a couple of nights in a Ford Econoline van.
It was brand new van with nothing inside - just the bare metal and a mat at the bottom. Since it wasn't long term I didnt have to convert anything: just put in a thermarest, sleeping bag, and enjoy;)
I did have to fit lengthwise (head to the front of the van, feet towards the rear of the van), because I wouldn't fit otherwise.
Do you think this would be noticed in a WalMart parking lot. Just a little to much baggage.
I've been traveling the country for over a year in a van. It's a great way to see the places you likely never would, if you lived a normal worker bee life.
Lots of people do it and it's a growing lifestyle. We have a sub over on reddit search vandwellers.
>no picture of the shitter
Probably no hitter.
Two stoves are better if you plan to really cook, with sausage and all. Carpet is a good idea for ground insulation. Give its door locker, there is still some air movement in the van.
On the native version of the van, there is openings to prevent the air to be trapped in the van but he probably filled it with the insulation.
It is a good DIY van. Would live in.
Not practical. At all.
I understand it is for alpinists who want to sleep close of the path, but:
-contain only one mattress and a sono
-you have to open the door to take an item
-imagine it rain
-sleeping bags on a bed
I spent a couple weeks last year sleeping in the back of my volvo... That truck with that basic shit going on would have been miles better - so maybe it's relative, but yeah, it's not a bad little setup for what it is.
More to the point - this recent internet trend of always trying to sound superior doesn't do anyone any good.
>I'm being gifted a 2003 Subaru Impreza hatchback. Any ideas on how to pimp it out for camping?
I wouldn't bother trying to sleep in it, as it's too small and most of your gear will have to be stored outside and that's dumb.
>sterno, or a portable butane stove
how about leaving them on a dash in the sun and eating them room temperature out the can like the fucking hobo that you are if youre living in your car
No, It's a shit idea, With shit choice of material for design.
>No Room to move
>Cant sit up
>Have to store majority of things outside
>All cooking, Hygiene, most eating done outside
Just about everything about it is a garbage shitty fucktastrophy of a an idea.
For a night or two to crash? Fine.
Long term? Very uncomfortable to 95% of people.
The only thing "Cool" about it is its use of space beneath the mattress, But since the bed of the truck is so fucking small to begin with, Trying to have space is a losing battle.
With my volvo I pretty much just removed as much crap as possible to get an idea what i had to work with. Taking the rear seat bases out and folding the back down gave me just enough room to stretch out on a flat surface, but you'll have to fuck about with yours and see what you get.
I then got a piece of "hard as I could get for cheap" foam ordered to line the back, a couple inches thick.
That was pretty much the basics of it. After that it was all about making little curtains to privacy it off a bit, and figuring out where to store stuff, and adding lights here and there.
Give it a try, it's cheap and a lot of fun. Don't be tempted to take too much, keep everything essential and easy to find. If you find a way to sit up in the back of the thing that'll make life a LOT nicer for you.
Oh... And the cheapo tarp in the pic was awesome, well worth doing.
Generally it's just the big-ass car for lugging shit about in that we don't care about getting dirty or whatever... But that trip, and the reason for 'converting' it, was a two week road trip round scotland. Awesome trip it was, 1880 miles of good times, camped it in all sorts of cool spots like pic related.
That's the only time I've slept in it but we've still got all the shit so it's there if we need it.
3-phase generator above drivers position, uses the twin fueltanks. Killswitch inside cabin if needed.
Eperspächer also using the twin fueltanks, pretty silent and powerful as -34C is not a problem.
Engine has the "fire under oilpan heater", but after night on a nice morning of -34c it started without heat on first, leaving black soot on 3 meter radius around the exhaust.
Sleeping either on the tables or in hammocs.
12V system when generator is not runnig, also powers the eperspächer and radio.
Compressor, MIG welder and acetylene torch registered in (no need for Dangerous Goods permit for the gas tanks).
AK mounts for the driver and co-driver.
And the coffee maker, all you need for a nice trip.
You're misunderstanding a bad idea with a bad application of the design.
The idea is sound, it's just dimensioned poorly for the space.
As to your other critiques, there are these things called "motorhomes" that seem to be more what you're after.
Doing a subie swap would be a lot of work. Nobody makes motor mounts for EJs plus custom wiring harness. Also I don't think the type4 trannies can handle the hp an EJ puts out.
I really really want a westy or something with an EJ swap tho...
Thats a dirtbag's truck. Dirtbags are those wiry rock climbers with dreadlocks you see all over the south west.
Its not a shit idea.
Its great if you just need a place to sleep and store some gear. If you want a living space you out to get an RV, or a box truck
The only thing keeping that rig from being completely comfortable in the long term is a shower. But you don't get that in a van either.
That said, I went a different route on my truck
I have a wood chest where I keep all my shit I need for every day life. Everything is separated in plastic containers.
I have two wood wheel well storage boxes where I keep axes, shovels saws ropes, truck spares, emergency gear, and other tools.
For bedding I have a foam mattress, a plain white sheet, and small pillow, and a wool blanket.
None of that fancy memory foam. Just a 7 feet of 4" thick ordinary yellow foam with a home made canvas cover.
I can fold up the mattress in three to make a decent seat.
And there's still space for a euro pallet.
I'm going to live out of a car for one or two years. I'm deciding whether I want a minivan or something smaller, like a Passat or Mazda 5 or Imprezza. Do you think you could have lived in the wagon long term? Weather is not an issue and I'm a minimalist, very little stuff to store. Plus it's just me, no girl. Thoughts?
Can't say I'd recommend a wagon for anything even remotely long term. Not being able to sit up and stretch a little would (did) get old pretty fast. Ok for a short while in nice weather but meh for anything longer I'd imagine.
I'd deffo go for a small van if I had to buy something for the job, or maybe a minivan / people carrier or whatever if stealth was important.
I live in a big city. I'm actually a college student, and I already shower at the gym 5 days a week. Sleeping in a car just seems like a natural choice. By real worry is what I'll do when I want piece and quiet. Then again, I could just drive out of town and chill outside. For your case, idk. Local gym? Maybe work a deal out with a friend, $25/month to use their shower occasionally.
Yeah, I'm back and forth between minivan and wagon. I could sleep fine in both and store all my stuff fine. I guess I mostly want a wagon because they have better mpg and my friends won't ask wtf I'm doing with a minivan.
> I guess I mostly want a wagon because they have better mpg
If we're talking a Ford E250 van vs. a Subaru ricer wagon then you might have a point but if it's a station wagon vs. a mini-van, the difference in gas milage is unnoticeable, yet the loss of headroom in a station wagon would be continually and annoyingly noticeable.
> and my friends won't ask wtf I'm doing with a minivan.
And they won't ask why you've got a soccer mom station wagon?
I lived on a camp bed in the back of a Ford transit when I was working on the railways all over Scotland. Not Insulated so slung a tarp over my bed Christ it was rough sleeping in a van with spilt diesel and waking damp with condesation every morning. I loved it by the end as we rolled into summer. Hard work and simple living is good for the soul. On the oil rigs now and I pine for the old Van. Gonna buy an old Ford transit only advice I've been given is to get one from a local painter or joiner as it will not have carried anything heavy.
>Gonna buy an old Ford transit only advice I've been given is to get one from a local painter or joiner as it will not have carried anything heavy.
Your biggest concern should be rust, especially on the underside and mudguards, and the area around the windscreen.
Then again, rust pretty much destroys the value of a van, so if you're good with a grinder and body filler you will save a lot of money.
Transits with the di engine last forever and if it runs good you shouldn't worry about what loads it carried.
I've seen 20 year old transits in third world countries carrying 3 tons without breaking a sweat.
Generally, delivery vans for smaller shops like florists are kept in more presentable condition than your average workman's white van.
Interior wood paneling is a big plus
Why do people bother with expensive camper vans? If I stuck a mattress in the back of this and tied a storage bag to the back of the seat I'd be good to go right? Right??
That's awesome dude, I'm planning to do something similar. I'm saving right now to buy a van that I can live in. I'm going to put a mattress in the back and sell my computer to buy a decent laptop with mobile internet. I won't feel claustrophobic because I'll be outside most of the day, but whenever I want to just lock myself away from the world I'll be able to do that too, I won't have any room mates to come and fuck with me. I won't be so much a slave to money anymore, I won't be tied to a single location anymore, Gonna live /out/ life, it'll be great. I don't really need much more living space than is provided in the back of a van, I'll get to see so many great places without even leaving my home.
I got it almost all figured out, I just need to figure out a way to make money while on the road. I don't need much, just enough to supplement my savings so they last longer.
>and sell my computer to buy a decent laptop with mobile internet
Not sure if you're into it, but I bought my girl a chromebook for $200. It came with a T Mobile 4G card (faster than our home wifi) that has 200MB free per month for life. You can obviously sign up for more, too, if you like.
It's a chromebook, so it won't have the functionality of a mac or pc, but I find it useful enough. I can edit photos, do quick video edits, post to blogs, etc.
Blogs and shit might be a good way to get some $$$ while on the road, assuming you can get enough clicks.
>Not sure if you're into it, but I bought my girl a chromebook for $200. It came with a T Mobile 4G card (faster than our home wifi) that has 200MB free per month for life.
That sounds quite reasonable, going to have to look into that. I assume you can't use the 4G card with something other than a chromebook? Not that it matters, $200 isn't that much
>Blogs and shit might be a good way to get some $$$ while on the road, assuming you can get enough clicks.
Maybe, I suppose if I am doing a lot of travelling to nice locations then I'll have a blog worth reading. I imagine it's very hard to get off the ground with something like that though.
>I imagine it's very hard to get off the ground with something like that though.
My cousin makes about 80k off his blog, and it took him 4 months to get to a place where he could afford living.
yeah well, he probably has a big dick or something.
Seriously though, I don't see how people earn money from blogging. What do they use? Blogspot? Tumblr?
How do they make their money? With a google partnership or do they make a deal with some other company?
wasn't trying to boost my cousin's ego, anon
I'm not 100% sure how he makes money on it, but I'm pretty sure blogspot will pay you for the ad revenue generated on your blog
he got his own domain, though, so probably with google
Yes, if you just want a place to sleep.
But some people want to live in their van like it was a house.
So they 'need' places to charge electronics, cook, shower compartmentalized storage etc
Anybody consider buying one of those "short" buses to make a DIY campervan?
While a short bus provides plenty of internal room and windows, I would think any used school bus would have a bazillion miles on it, requiring quite a bit of mechanical rebuilding (in addition to renovating the interior as a living space) before I'd trust living day-to-day in one them.
As a hunting / camping mobile they'd be alright, as a break-down only results in a blown weekend but if it's your home and it fails, you could be up Shit's Creek.
Of course if you've got the money and skills, they can be turned into something pretty cool;
It definitely wouldn't be cheap, but the results would be closer to a true RV as opposed to a van.
I am a student straight out of high school with an obviously and depressingly low budget. How do I go about selecting a cheap van and deciding what to put in it (electric, water, insulation?, etc)
PS I live in Texas, so security will involve a shotgun
It's probably gas powered so you'd have to change every hose and some other stuff or the new fuel with ethanol in it will corrode the old rubber hoses/seals and your whole house will go up in flames.
Large parts of my youth were spent in pic related
it had a bench seat which folded down into a bed and another up in the canopy that folded out (in case you don't know Volkswagens) The van had two heaters, one in the front and one in the back,which never operated at the same time, one would work for a week, then nothing, then the other would work, it had a fridge which we usually used as a cooler because it wasn't always reliable, it had a table you could put on an attachment that was on the counter top which had lots of storage, the bench seat was great for storing tools and stuff, although if you sat back there while it was running you could forget about hearing anything, especially the conversations of the people in front over the sound of the engine.
>I learned how to drive on this van
>I loved every single idiosyncrasy it had
> I was so fucking choked when my mom sold it two years ago
>> I was so fucking choked when my mom sold it two years ago
You can (as I have) sleep like a king in the back of an Impreza (Height dependent, I'm 6'1 and it's still pleasant)
And if you don't go all Top Queer and put in a kitchenette with a working gas burner and sink, you'll have plenty of space for your belongings.
I'm the anon who originally asked the question.
Thanks, my girl and I are planning on using an inflatable mattress so we can store other items in the back while driving, then move those things to the front, inflate the mattress, and sleep at night.
Does that sound reasonable, or should we just put a real mattress back there?
I know but I didn't have the time or the space or the cash to do all the repairs that would be necessary, especially on a vehicle that I can only drive six months out of the year in my city anyways.
> would have been the ultimate stoner-mobile though
This picture is relevant to my interests. I'm going for a sit on top canoe as I'm a beginner and I'll take my kids on it. I'm not from USA so I weigh less than 150kg so we can all fit on a two seater.
Looking at camper trailers too but so many options not sure what to choose.
>How much does it matter if it's mechanically tired if it runs?
Because it it's mechanically tired, it may _not_ run when you need it to.
COP: "hay you, move along!"
YOU: "ok officer."
*whinny whinny whinny.... kerplunk*
YOU: "umm... seems my half-ass converted school bus just crapped out, officer."
COP: "not my problem, you can pay the towing company $300 to haul it out of here and $40 per day to store it."
You...do know a fucking SHITLOAD of people live in school buses, full time, year round, right?
Sure, if you DON'T know what you're doing when you buy the bus, it can be a problem. Any number of them are phased out for other reasons than mileage, however.
It doesn't matter if people are living in them or not, a vehicle is a vehicle and endures X amount of wear & tear, requiring Y amount of maintenance after Z amount of miles.
And school buses are subjected to a particularly excessive amount of wear & tear, due to the constant stopping-and-starting type of exclusively urban driving their doing.
The school bus drivers hereabouts flog the shit out of their (full size) buses, as they're on a tight schedule and carry a ton of kids.
I think that what the one anon was saying to the other anon (we are neither of those anons, right?) was that comparing developed world camping with developing world living is absurd. It is comparing a mindset of getting down to basics in order to experience life with trying to get the basics in order to live life. They are both fags with store bought bug out bags while you and I could survive anything, anywhere with our everyday carry.
This is awesome. Electrically and mechanically it's sound, and there's a lot of extras that could be removed to save cost (i.e. AC) and it could be applied to pretty much any similar sized van. Would be interesting to see a finished model of this...
It's cool, but it looks really complicated and expensive for a do-it-yourselfer. Most van/campers are not nearly this new or sophisticated.
>tfw my dad has had a VW Syncro 4X4 parked in the shed behind my house since before I was born.
>says every year he'll do it up into a camper van one day.
>We've always been too broke.
>I'm twenty-one now.
>tfw we'll probably never go on a father and son trip in the van, even though he had intended to do it my entire childhood.
All you need is a battery isolator which you connect between the positive terminals of your main (starter) battery and your auxiliary (accessory) batteries. They can be automatic (in which case it will automatically close the circuit while charging and open while discharging) or manual.
Start wotking on it for an hour each day. For another hour spend time looking for right people on the web, info on how and what to fix, where to get cheapest parts...
It will take time but after a year you will have 720+ hrs of work on this thing. It will be a gem:)
>getting 10 mpg
do you even drive?
>Not aware that some of these are diesel
>Bitching about mileage
>in a campervan thread
Wife drives a Tahoe. We can take out the rear seats, fold down the middle seats, and sleep comfortably if we don't have both kids with us. I've got a Ford pickup with a fucking short bed that wouldn't be worth shit for sleeping even if it had a camper instead of a toolbox and rails.
>At least you have the van already. It would be much harder to get started if you had nothing and had to start from scratch.
Not really. For less than $1000 you can get a van that running and ready to go
Then all you need to be on your way is shit like a mattress and storage boxes.
Anything else you need can be fabricated along the way.
>For less than $1000 you can get a van that running and ready to go
I don't know about that. It's hard to get a running car for a grand where I live, let alone something you would want to live out of.
>tfw it's the same price in Europe
this winnebago era goes for like $130k, and it has a wetbath. i gather it's more for the megawealthy soccer moms so they can bring a fridge along when they pick their kids up from school.
That's an Imperial/European gallon. A US gallon is just under 4 liters.
The disparity comes from back in the colonial days, when the shipping and receiving of alcohol from Europe to the colonies on slow moving ships did not account for the evaporation rate.
There was a big push toward metrification in the 70's and 80's and it just never caught on. If it did I don't think it would be the end of the world, but I don't see much benefit out of it.
i just don't get class-b motor homes without permanent beds. the wetbaths are disgusting, but i can kind of understand them. but expecting to sleep on folded down auto seats is just not reasonable.
yeah, that's nothing. and a chromebook is a dumb terminal. you're just accessing resources on a google server rack somewhere. if you're out of data or have no connection, your chromebook is basically useless. you're far better served by spending 3 or 4 hundred on a windows machine.
sure, but you're forgetting your computer doesn't work at all without a net connection. at all. so they scam you into buying the terminal, but they've got you on the hook to pay for the connection forever.
this is true. I'm from wales and people who have never been taught imperial measures at school (if you were born post '71 you should have never encountered then ) still use them frequently
people use MGP to measure fuel economy in cars 99% of people under 30 have no idea what that actually means as pumps dispense in litres lol
>my uncle died in one of those when it was blown off a california freeway by a crosswind in the 80's.
Damn... Sorry anon.
>tfw it's under $2 where I live right now