What's the word on pack animals?
Seems like a goat is the top choice for light loads and rough terrain.
There was an article in backpacker about this once.
Some guy in either WA or OR would let you rent his goats for trailcamping. The author and a friend did it, and they said it was hell because goats are stubborn as fuck. One would only move if you sprayed him with a spraybottle full of water, even though the guy who owned the goats specifically said it was only to be used for punishment, not motivation. The author used it for motivation anyways. I always thought that was really shitty of him.
Goats are the most evil satanic creature on earth and will ruin your entire life.
I was once kicking around the idea of using a donkey for carrying my surveying shit and a horsey acquaintance told me horses are better. Donkeys are pricks but horses will more or less do what you want.
I dunno, I have 24 horses. The goats we used to keep just stayed in the paddock grazing with the horses and followed you around expecting food
at worst they jumped fences and climbed on top of buildings.
horses are a pain in the dick to haul around, especially across national borders
Surely a goat isn't difficult to source locally and for a fraction of what a pony would cost
Shit, you for real? Google image "goat on" and be amazed.
they also lick tents or boots at night to get the salt from your sweat. bretty horofic the noise they make, if you wake up at night and don't know what it is...
Most people probably wouldn't do well packing with goats not because the goats are unsuitable, but because the people are. You have to have more willpower than the goat, and most people just don't have it in them.
Also, if you want a good rough terrain pack animal, think Pre-Columbian.
It's not because it's cruel to the goats, it's because if they have a specified punishment that's being used to train them, using it all the time for motivation will ruin its "punishing" effect and mess up training.
why has no one mentioned donkeys and mules, they are by far the best pack animals, as they eat very little and are very enduring
inb4 they stubborn, if a donkey is stubborn with you, you failed his education and know nothing about donkeys
They are actually quite smart, as smart as or smarter than dogs and they have a very dominant social hierarchy.
If a pack goat won't follow you, it's because it knows you don't have the balls to lead.
true, i once was a goat herder for a year, and maybe once a week i had to fight the alpha goat to remind him who was boss to be able to lead the heard. it's pretty easy too, once you grab the horns, just knee kick him in the ribs a couple of times, then make him lie on the floor by pushing his head all the way down.
pic related, my alpha goat looked like this
Yeah, that is just terrible training practices. You get much better with positive reinforcement than punishment. It forms a symbiotic relationship instead of a master-slave relationship.
I mean how hard is it to carry around a pocket of treats for an animal? Once they associate you with the treat and kind attitude they are more apt to identify with you as one of the pack/herd and follow you around.
I've worked with horse, donkeys, mules, goats, and pigs. They are all the exact same in respect to training. Treat them with respect and positive feedback and they well follow you anywhere. But, fuck up the training or have some dick like that author do the wrong training and it screws everything up for the animals and they develop stubbornness very quickly. It isn't cut and dry, but explaining requires a lot of text I'm not writing.
I've been told they're stubborn with people they don't know. You can't harness up a strange llama and lead it away. It won't budge and that will lead to a fight ending with someone covered in spit or cud. That pretty much rules out renting a llama.
this is partially true, but the opposite also works. if you beat the crap out of an animal it will obey.
i'm not saying you should or that it is right, but to violently dominate animals by force is a technique used in the past and still today
When I was a little kid aged 7 there was this ram at a nearby museum with horns like that chained with a 3 meter long chain. We used to tease the fuck out of the ram and then sprint away before it headbutted us.
they don't fucking kid around with them canine folk
Which one of you is this?
I regularly see /out/ threads pop up on /r/CampingAndHiking and /r/Bushcraft 2-5 days after the /out/ discussion.
There's not many, "pseudo-underground" websites for edgy teens, out there and the people that visit them tend to visit nearly all of them.
Case in point, you know the boards for that stuff seemingly rather well.
They key to keeping goats in line is to have a wether, which is a male that was neutered young and is less aggressive. You get the wether to recognize you as herd alpha and the female goats will fall in line behind him.
Of course this works best if they are your goats and they've been yours long enough to recognize you as the top of their social order.
If you rent goats, you're going to spend your whole trip trying to establish yourself as head of the herd because to them, you're just a new goat and new goats start at the bottom so it'll be a lot if "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!"
Goats are great.
my grandmother had goats all her life. then she went crazy and started keeping them indoors. embroided bible quotes on the walls. goat shit between the floorboards.
also knew a guy who has two pet goats on his boat. he has life vests for them and then love swimming after they learned they didnt sink
Jack Simpson beat you to it.
That's some ninja-tier goat power we got here !
From what I've seen, non-neutered males are big pussy compared to female goats. They're all like "I'm da goat-king, lemme impregnate you, but hey, it's a dog over here, seeya later when it'll be gone" *troppity troppity far away*. Females seems to be more courageous, but it's from goats that are in an enclosed meadow and have done nothing else than eating and climbing on some stuff.