>>480111 Because .22 rifles offer the most food year round vs weight of the rifle and ammo. And a scope for hunting small game? Get out of here Stalker. But seriously, scopes aren't that necessary for small game, and they're very vulnerable to moisture and impacts. Plus it requires more care when packing the rifle.
To each his own though. I'd rather have a 12 Gauge with a variety of bird shot, 00, and slugs. Maybe even an adapter for .22 or 30-06.
>>480117 Seriously though, good BOB OP. However, ditch the canned food, you could carry more calories for the same weight. The calories provided by the canned food does not make up much more than calories expended carrying the food.
>>480173 Dried foods, hard meats, pastas, and oils. The list is endless. Google some backpacker meals. The people who lomg distance hike burn like 5x the calories that normal people do, so they have to find the balance between nutrition, fuel, and weight so they can make the journey safely.
>>480111 >>480117 I have a .308 minimum mentality. Sure it means less ammo for the weight but my argument has always been that a .22LR can be easily replaced by snare wire or even dead-fall traps made with stones/timber in the field. I figure traps can be in a lot more places at once than one person with a rifle. When the opportunity for medium-to-large game presents itself the .22LR crowd will wish they'd brought a beefier round.
You know, a 22lr is more than capable of killing larger game, is in fact the choice of round for deer poachers. Has been noted of ppl killing full grown moose with a 22lr, it is all about shot placement.
>>480201 Try to time a week of fasting to lead up to a range-trip on cold, breezy, rainy day to see how your shot placement is going. I figure it'll be 50/50 that it's gonna suck or that your very first shot goes right in the bull's because you're imagining it's Bambi's eardrum. Anyway, I'm not trying to downplay the effectiveness of .22LR but I'd still rather have a round I can be accurate with at a distance instead of a round that can go a distance farther than I can be accurate at.
Even when ppl have been starving, ppl have still been able to do so. Plus with the 22, seeing as you're able to hunt smaller game and not blow them away, you should be able to get meat much easier. Plus been a botanist for the last 16 yrs, so finding edible plants is not hard for me.
Also, for accuracy, if well trained, it has been well proven that a 22lr can be accurate and deadly from over 300 yards away, there is ppl getting 3 inch groupings from 400 feet away. Shit, there is ppl who can hit steel with a glock at 300 meters with a hand gun, no scope.
I am letting skill level play the factor here, not the round it self.
>>480213 >>480219 >ppl >ppl >anecdote >unrelated mention of career (A retard can pick up a local field guide for edible plants complete with warnings about lookalikes but that still nothing to do with my reasoning for preferring .308 or the perceived slights you feel I've made against your beloved .22lr) >22 go dah distance! [with roughly 1/30 the energy remaining as a .308] >ppl >anecdote >ppl >anecdote >blah blah, must have no skills, yaddda oink moo
>>480220 >disregard argument >parrot above poster's insults I so kewl
>>480102 add +food, 6kcal is going to keep you going for 2 days max while moving at speed with a full pack +a water filter, a sawyer squeeze. this will provide much more water than the tablets, and will process water faster than boiling. lightweight and reliable +water storage. I see only 1L of water storage, that's not much unless there is a ton of fresh water along your route/in your area +oral rehydration solution/candy. almost essential for quick moves in hot weather, which is what I'm expecting given the 40F sleeping bag +rain jacket, or light poncho if your climate permits +tinder, candles, something to light with your bics/firesteel +fresnel lens for unlimited fire +maintenance kit for your rifle +a spoon to eat your oats and peanutbutter with +move the idiot string from the "another flashlight" to your primary
reduce -tarps. you already have a 1 person tent. bring an extra silnylon tarp if you must -a sawblade. 2 sawblades and an axe is a bit much. -a full size knife, you already have the axe and saw -one of the metal cups. they are heavy and bulky. if you require redundancy, replace one with a metal water bottle -most of your first aid gear. no you won't be performing field surgery on yourself. -two of your flashlights. 4 is excessive, and I suggest that you pick lights that use the same batteries if they don't already. I'll suggest that you keep your primary and your headlamp. -drop either the sharpening file or the puck, redundant. -vice grips. why? they are heavy too. -some rope. what do you plan to build while bugging out? the tent should not require additional rope to setup, and once the tarps are dropped, there should be little to tie up. -tape. there is so much.
>>480409 If you get a H&R Pardner Break-Action 12ga it only weighs a pound more than the 10/22. Now granted the ammo weighs more. I carry the H&R everywhere with 3 turkey shot 3 slug and 5 buckshot and I've never had a problem.
>>480102 >tons of cords >tent and TWO tarps >surgeon kit but no sterilized room to come with >probably never operated anyone anyway >not only a full sized axe but also two saws >plan to build the saw and bring only the blade >only half a week of food >only one liter of water This is stupid.
Are you planning to go on a point where you have stocked food? If yes, why don't you drop the axe/saw/tarps etc... here?
Are you planing to "live off the land"? This require a lot of skills, and just looking at your bag, you are not used to this kind of things.
Don't worry, just buy a 70-90L bag and do as this guy say: >>480324
>.22 is good for defending yourself in the wood Like, against boars and bears? .22 is a arguably good caliber for a small CC gun and it's the best when it come to shooting paper or birds but self defense in the nature?
Yes I try to have backups for the most important items ie the "5 C's". "Cover" and preventing hypothermia is high priority, so I think the tarps are justified. One above and one below. If it is raining and windy and cold it is a real concern to stay dry and warm. Similar reasons for the cordage, containers, and blades.
As far as the "surgeon kit" many people comment on...first off it's not meant for that. It is for suturing, potentially large but uncomplicated wounds. Also the kellys are for a touriquet equivalent (actually better than that) in any event of life threatening arterial bleeds. A truly sterile field is not necessary for either of these things.
>>480589 5C and the rule of 3 are more for the beauty of intellectual things than for real life.
To prevent hypothermia, the key word is "insulation". Unless you are in a synthetic sleeping bag, you need to keep your insulation dry. This is why you need cover. Your tent provide for that. It cover you from rain, soil wetness and wind. If it don't, trash it. You have people who use tarp to protect their tent from the sun or to have a nice place to live when they don't sleep, but on a BoB, it's a deadweight.
To prevent hypothermia: eat enough of calories, don't make unnecessary effort, keep yourself dry and have enough insulation.
For the blades, the big knife and a camping hatchet will be enough. It it's too light for you: take more food. You never have too much food.
If I were you, I would go to an hospital to get an open wound sutured. If SHTF, the medics will be too busy to ask question and will just fix you and say goodbye. Take care of the tourniquets, they lead to necrosis.
>>480569 You have a lot of batteries, but do you have a sleeping bag?
>>480602 >To prevent hypothermia, the key word is "insulation". Unless you are in a synthetic sleeping bag, you need to keep your insulation dry. This is why you need cover. Your tent provide for that. It cover you from rain, soil wetness and wind. If it don't, trash it.
The tent is essentially a bivy sack so without the tarps it would be hard to do anything while staying dry and warm. Anyone who has set up camp from scratch-- in the rain -- knows the importance of a second tarp. Your shit will get very wet without one. The only solution to this is getting a big 4 person tent. That's not ideal for me for several reasons...it's heavy, it's expensive, and there's no way to set it up incrementally...for example with 2 tarps and a tent I can unroll just 1 tarp and have that if the weather is favorable. Or I can unroll 2 if there is rain. Or I can unroll both AND the tent if there is wind and rain. This allows me to keep more of my chit packed and ready to go than a tent, which is all or nothing.
>>480102 The knife is total dick (kabar; the moras fine). That thermarest is on the heavy side for a ground mat. Vice grips are a waste of space and weight. Didn't see any gloves in the med kit, enjoy your sepsis. Shoes are dick, also don't see any moleskin or foot powder or more than 2 pair of socks which are about as valuable as food if you're doing any kind of serious walking. A Sharpening puck and a file? You also don't have a wound irrigation syringe or betadine, kind of rendering the sutures (wrong kind by the way) pointless and actually pretty dangerous. Canned food, don't really need to say more. Overpriced, shit backpack. Nor enough food. Not enough water storage. 2 tarps when you really don't need 1. No rain gear. No trash bags. Good axe brand, again wrong type though.
>>480615 ok, thanks for clarifying your intended shelter usage.
in that case, drop the bivy and the ground tarp. replace the bivy with a tyvek splash bivy (a sleeve for your bag), replace ground tarp with polycro groundsheet.
this will save you significant weight and bulk while maintaining sufficient weather protection for a few weeks /out/ which is longer than you will be with that amount of food packed.
if you intend to use the cordage for stringing up your tarp, replace the 550 with dynameea/spectra cord. it has far greater tensile strength, won't stretch under load/wet, and is lighter for the same length. I like to tie 10' to each corner of my tarp along with a line tensioner to speed up setup and takedown.
>>480589 I want you to stop and listen to yourself clearly. from what I read, you intend to operate on yourself during a life threatening arterial bleed. I cannot imagine anyone with that degree of injury to have both the state of mind and the remaining physical ability to perform the work needed with those tools.
I would drop all the tools and stutures, and replace with an israeli bandage, some gauze, and roll of vetwrap.
>>480102 I see that there is a lot of feedback on this setup already, Id' like to add my general comment.
the equipment in your bag appears to be at cross purposes. you have several wood perparation tools and a lot of shelter building equipment, but no equipment to sustain life in the wild aside from the rifle.
the bag has a small amount of food, which tells me that your bug out location is not far. if the destination is near, why do you need to build shelter and hunt?
if this is a bug out bag, then you should focus on the bugging out, to maximize your chances of getting to your safe place, rather than spending time in the woods.
>>480615 You can have a good ultralight 1 person tent for 2 lbs. It's probably less than your bivy+2 tarps. Tents are in 2 parts: the "tarp" and the mosquito nest+groundsheet. If you train, you can build your tent under the rain.
>Calories prevent hypothermia Sure, but if you lack food, you are more vulnerable to hypothermia.
.22LR will be less valuable in a SHTF situation because you cannot reload rim fire cartridges. If SHTF, manufacturing production will stop which will make reloaded rounds more prevalent. 22LR is still a good choice and has plenty of reasons why you should use it.
But having a scope is stupid not only because you have to be delicate with it but also you will have to sight it in to be accurate, which is a waste of ammo. Not to mention that it takes longer to draw a bead on a target with a scope than it does with iron sights.
I would prefer a shotgun since it allows for superior wing hunting with a large variety of different shotsizes and types for different game. Slugs are good for at least 50 yards (though the experienced old timers will tell you they are good for 75 yards), which is good enough in the heavy forested area I live in -- not too many vast open planes that warrant a 200 yard kill.
>>480689 >>480699 What kind of mongoloid can't sight a .22 with only a few shots? While I prefer a shotgun just for the fact you don't need the shot placement of an autist, a .22 is going to keep you more consistently fed than a shotgun, just for the fact you get 12-13 shots for the weight of one 12ga and you don't scatter half the forest with each shot.
>>480698 You might be able to shoot one dove perched on a branch with, sure. But the rest will scatter along with any other animal near by. But if you wait for a dule of doves to come feed in an area behind a blind, then you can shoot multiple doves on the wing. Same can be said about most birds. The cleanest ways to kill ducks, geese, and turkeys is either a dense pattern of lead from a shotgun or a gullitone arrow from a bow to the neck. I also hope you're a good tracker since even if you did put a few shots into a turkey's breast, it's running away quick.
>>480708 >What kind of mongoloid can't sight a .22 with only a few shots? Well the point is you're still wasting ammo to sight in the scope, which you're going to want to do on a rare occasion. Really, what mongoloid can't hit a target in 100 yards without a scope? >just for the fact you get 12-13 shots for the weight of one 12ga and you don't scatter half the forest with each shot. Have you ever heard of choke? Any shotgun worth a damn has interchangeable choke tubes so you can either tighten your pattern for turkey or open your pattern for dove, or whatever application you want. Plus you don't have to worry about whats one mile behind the target like with a .308 or powerful rifle rounds (but SHTF so that's wont really matter I guess).
>>480712 If the world existed of nothing but birds I'd concede you were right, but plenty of area's where game birds are next to nonexistent, mine included, where there's nothing but pine flats and scruff. Plenty of small game, a few deer (they never seem to get very big); there are a few stories in my area of convicts surviving on mostly armadillos and squirrel for weeks to months on end. Nothing really where a shotgun would be preferred to a .22. If I was up north, I'd want a shotgun or a .308, but here where the armadillo are plenty and the deer are few and get mistaken for dogs I want a .22.
>>480721 >If I was up north In the South there's plenty of game birds with a over populated amount of deer. I hear that armadillos carry diseases and I have never heard of it being a preferred game or meat. Armadillos are abundant in Florida, but I would just end up fishing at that point since it's Florida.
>>480731 Bingo I live in Florida (good guess actually), which is why I have a gill net, (illegal to use but if shtf no one will mind I suppose) fishing yo-yo traps and various tackle to forgo the need for hunting in the first place. Less of a worry about disease and parasites that way. That being said you don't always catch something. The meats on par with raccoon, not choice but edible if you boil it. Nothing really around this area you could turn into a staple with a shotgun that you couldn't with a .22.
>>480712 > I also hope you're a good tracker since even if you did put a few shots into a turkey's breast, it's running away quick. If you can't hit a target 1" across at less than 50m (i.e. a turkey head) then you should just save the world the trouble when SHTF and blow your own brains out.
>Well the point is you're still wasting ammo to sight in the scope I don't know about you and your cheap-ass Chinese knockoff scopes, but my scope stays zeroed for a long time. Only a tiny fraction (probably less than 5 rounds per 500) will be used to sight in my gun.
>Have you ever heard of choke So instead of hitting half the forest, all that shot his one bird. What a waste.
Face it faggot, you'll be facing 1kg of weight just for a box of 25 shot shells, while everyone who lacks a hardon for a shotgun will be carrying 50 rounds of .22lr for only 170 grams.
>>480754 >If you can't hit a target 1" across at less than 50m (i.e. a turkey head) then you should just save the world the trouble when SHTF and blow your own brains out. Jesus some of you prepper kids are just too much. Do you really think a turkey will keep its head still and let you shoot it? Do you know how silly you would look trying to shoot a moving turkey's head? You realize that even experienced callers can only get within 30 yards, and a 45 yard shot is pretty common. I'm not sure why I'm discussing turkey hunting with you seeing as how it's painfully obvious you have no idea what you're talking about.
>I don't know about you and your cheap-ass Chinese knockoff scopes, but my scope stays zeroed for a long time. Only a tiny fraction (probably less than 5 rounds per 500) will be used to sight in my gun. It stays zeroed for a long time because you store it, not constantly out in the wilderness for months on end. But I did say it would be on a rare occasion, and is still a waste of ammo.
>So instead of hitting half the forest, all that shot his one bird. What a waste. What? You really don't know how shotguns work, do you?
>Face it faggot, you'll be facing 1kg of weight just for a box of 25 shot shells, while everyone who lacks a hardon for a shotgun will be carrying 50 rounds of .22lr for only 170 grams. You are right that weight would be an issue. And that would prove to be a large problem if I decided to be nomadic. I'd hope to hole up in an area in the middle of woods (which I already kinda live in) instead of constantly wandering. But I would trap make traps for small game and traps for fish, and hunting with a gun would ideally only be for supplementing
>>480774 >turkey I have 12 time the shots weight for weight. If i miss I can get bead on target instantly and fire again. Or, I can go for a chest shot that really should only take one round but even if we are going to go with your mythical scenario where a turkey runs off with three or four rounds in it's chest I'm still up on you.
This doesn't even cover the fact there is more to hunting than turkeys.
>zero I will admit that I've never carried a rifle for a long period of time, but I'm pretty sure soldiers in combat zones with a quality optic aren't zeroing their rifle every week.
>What? You really don't know how shotguns work, do you? The argument was that half the weight of your shot shell is scattered across the forest not striking anything or being useful. All a choke is going to do is put more shot on target and at this point it's pretty redundant at this point.
>You are right that weight would be an issue. And that would prove to be a large problem if I decided to be nomadic. I'd hope to hole up in an area in the middle of woods (which I already kinda live in) instead of constantly wandering. But I would trap make traps for small game and traps for fish, and hunting with a gun would ideally only be for supplementing Except we were talking BOBs. Talk about moving the goalposts.
>>480784 >I have 12 time the shots weight for weight. If i miss I can get bead on target instantly and fire again. Or, I can go for a chest shot that really should only take one round but even if we are going to go with your mythical scenario where a turkey runs off with three or four rounds in it's chest I'm still up on you. It is turkey season right now so go ahead and get some practice popping turkey heads with your .22lr. You sound so damn sure that you know what you're talking about, so go put it to the test. There is not a turkey hunter in the world who doesn't use either a shotgun with turkey load or a guillotine arrow from a bow. Go ahead and argue that you can mag dump a dozen .22lr into the chest (which you won't since it will be running away after the first shot), but you're wasting meat and ammo in a survival situation and you would look like a fool in a regular turkey hunt. And you will be tracking that fucker if you don't shoot its head/neck. .22lr can be used to hunt plenty of different game, but it wouldn't work well on turkey. Your efforts are better put some where else with it.
>The argument was that half the weight of your shot shell is scattered across the forest not striking anything or being useful. All a choke is going to do is put more shot on target and at this point it's pretty redundant at this point. Well the beauty of the shotgun is the spread area can hit a moving target since you're not just firing just one projectile. That is why you are able to shoot a turkey in the head, and why you can hit a duck on the wing.
>Except we were talking BOBs. Talk about moving the goalposts. No one said any specific disasters or what kind of shit hit the fan. Why can't I bug out to a spot 50 miles down stream and hole up?
Really though, you're a fucking fool if you think that you can shoot a turkey's head off with a .22lr. I really don't know why I'm arguing with you when its obvious that you've never been hunting and are just another range warrior
>>480816 Turkey hearts are very small, and its moving the whole time. It's not like deer where they stand still while chewing some grass. Obviously if you miss your first shot at it's heart, the second shot will be even harder.
>>480819 Continued. Even if everytime you could shoot it through the heart, you could end up ruining some of the meat and carcass. I would imagine when SHTF, you would want to use all of the animal possible.
But I have said plenty of times that .22lr has a lot of good reasons to use it and is good for plenty of game. We are all just shooting the shit about different things we would like to do when SHTF, and I would like bring a shotty with me.
I can see how a scope would be useful in Australia since you got vast open fields, but a scope where I am in the southeastern US wouldn't be as beneficial since I live in a giant forest.
>>480820 First off that is illegal in a lot of states. Second off, after the guy made the shot, you hear the camera guy is in complete disbelief because that was just a fantastic shot. It's not a common method, and I imagine that people who do hunt turkey with pellet guns are doing it purely for the challenge. It's the first time I've heard of it, but you really can find anything on the internet.
If you hit the lungs and major arteries, then you're going to be tracking it.
>>480824 >If you hit the lungs and major arteries, then you're going to be tracking it Not for very long. I shot a deer through the diaphragm into one lung and she collapsed after less than 100 yds of running. It was a pass through shot so there were two holes and a sucking chest wound, collapsing the lung(s).
Speaking of which: has anyone considered a bow with a suppressed .22 pistol as a backup? Personally if I'm going to rely on a firearm in SHTF, I want suppression to keep it as quiet as possible. I'd even keep subsonic ammo around for when I need really quiet shots.
>>480587 I've tried using that machete multiple times and it's shit. I think I'll get rid of the machete and small hatchet in general, and just get a good hatchet >>480590 fuck off >>480595 Yes there is a sheath for it, but like said above, I think I am tossing it anyway
>>480111 >i'm always a little curious why so many of you load up with a 10/22, often with a scope on it. ...?
The Ruger 10/22 is effective and very reliable and .22LR allows for more ammo to be carried and is perfectly suited for hunting small game in a SHTF situation, (you won't be going for Boone & Crockett bucks) yet still effective at driving away threatening humans.
But I'll agree about the scope; in a SHTF situation, it's unneeded and liable to be broken and hinders short range shooting, which is what you'll be doing.
I'd also add; a folding stock would be preferable, (particularly on a Ruger 10/22 Takedown model) as it will allow you to stash the rifle in a pack out of sight, so that it won't be seized by police / military if you've got to go through a road block.
For a Bug-Out-Bag, I'd say that a tent and sleeping bag are excessive weight and bulk and in the event you have to quickly bug-out from your bug-out location, you'll liable to have to leave them behind.
IMO it would be preferable to pack a pair of thick fleece pants and a jacket to wear under your GoreTex rain suit, which packs down much smaller, will provided the needed insulation as well as wind and rain protection, is quick drying and you can wear it while on the move in cold weather.
>>481183 >Then, just walk without sleeping or engage full hobo mod.
Dunno what you mean by "full hobo mode" but going without sleep simply isn't an option, yet a sleeping bag will very likely get soaked/ripped up and it's of no use for insulation when on the move, unlike a thick fleece jacket and pants which can be worn under/over clothes.
I'm not disagreeing, but the point is; the best gun _specifically_ for a bug-out bag, in which case a Ruger 10/22 tops the list, as you're not looking to battle terrorists in Fallujah, you're hunting squirrels.
>>481204 It's not enough to sleep on cold weather. But I mean, if your BoB is just for a 3 days trip, you can just walk here day and night for 2 days while only sleeping short naps on abandoned cars/structures.
>>481208 >It's not enough to sleep on cold weather.
Nonsense; synthetic long underwear + heavy fleece + GoreTex rain suit + wool socks + (loosely tied) boots + fleece hat + gloves will keep you warmer then huddling in a soaked and ripped sleeping bag in your tighty whiteys.
I go with a wool military surplus great coat before I'd take a sleeping bag.
>>481207 You never know what you are going to meet. Sometime it's a bird or a squirrel, then .22 is okay, but another day, it will be a nutria, a racoon, a swan... I would say that a caliber that can't reliably kill a boar with one well placed shot is not the best suited for SHTF.
SAM splints are a waste of space. These things are retarded and I hate them. They are intended for professional EMT/paramedics because these individuals are supposed to appear professional and encounter injuries requiring said devices VERY frequently. They are absolutely stupid to take innawoods or as emergency first aid because similarly effective devices can be improvised very easily from your surroundings...in most areas. So...long story short, lose the sam splint. former EMT and current MD here.
>>481688 > I'm going to conceal myself while I'm sleeping.
That also goes without saying, but as this is a discussion of bug-out bags for a shit-hits-the-fan situation, one must consider that there are going to hordes of unprepared, terrified, starving city-slickers wandering across the countryside, so there's a very good chance they'll stumble across your "concealed" sleeping spot (no doubt looking for the same thing) and you don't want to be bundled up, buck naked in a sleeping bag if that happens.
>>481456 >SAM splints are a waste of space because similarly effective devices can be improvised very easily from your surroundings
Again; people seem to be forgetting the conditions; The shit has hit the fan, you're not car camping where you can conveniently drive to an emergency room and get that taken care of, you're stumbling down back roads and trails trying to escape the city and vast hordes of desperate and dangerous people.
The last thing you want to do, is try to nigger-rig some kinda half-ass splint out of sticks and string...
>>484049 Didn't see TP/wet wipes. You might want to think about beefing up your first aid stuff. More bandaids, tweezers, forceps, magnifying glass, Neosporin, stuff like that. Maybe some larger dressings. Ace wrap. And meds- benadryl, pseudoephedrine, motrin, immodium, eye drops, plus anything specific to your needs.
Look at replacing one flashlight with a headlamp. And all lights/lamps should share a battery size.
Glow sticks are a personal preference thing. Personally, I don't like the short shelf life. I substitute a couple of dollar store LED tea lights.
>>480693 until either your cold gives out a cough, your isolation far from any training you may or may not ever have had causes you to walk right into traps, or your PTSD makes you start screaming at hallucinations.
...that said, bunkering down and prepping best include big bore (not .22lr, it's all gone anyway), tree IEDs, and pungi traps all over your killzone less you wanna be culturally enriched by Trayvon or diddled by Tex both of whom have come 'round all hungry with a boner.
>>484077 I'd rather be comfortable in my underwear and armed than bother with freezing my butt off sleeping in the sweaty clothing I was wearing that day. Plus you need to let your feet air out, loosely tied boots aren't going to accomplish that.
As much as any of us hate to admit it, a get home bag would be more useful to us 99.999999999% of the time. Not saying a BOB isn't useful or unneeded, but you're right that a lot of people could stand to be a little more pragmatic
>>484125 I agree on the TP/Wet Wipe advice. Nothing worse than wiping your ass with crusty leaves. The fak has neosporin in it, but an ace bandage would be a good idea too. I'll probably skip the other stuff, seeing how this is only a 5 day max bag. >>484284 I love that hammock. Would rather sleep in that than my own bed. I lay out my sleeping bag in it, and use a bundled up sweatshirt for a pillow. What are your issues with it that cause you not to sleep well?
>>485365 WTF? Have you ever fired a gun before? Its easier to shoot with a longer gun than a shorter one, its has nothing to do with skill it's just simple mechanics; if you can shoot great pistol you can shoot better with a long arm. There is literally no difference when it comes to shooting the both of them. If were you try and at shoot me with a $3000 pistol and I have a $200 rifle, I will shoot and kill you outside of your pistol range. The same thing when hunting. Go back to COD jackass.
>>485656 I specified for HUNTING, jackass. Using a pistol would be for saving space as it takes up less room/weight than a rifle. The ability to shoot that rifle accurately beyond the range of a pistol is based on practice and skill level of the shooter- thank you for proving my point. Pistol/rifle ballistics aren't as different as you'd think when they shoot the same round and I think the video demonstrates that.
>>485680 That's a suppressed pistol, not a match grade. They look similar, though.
>>485863 Just give it up, you're obviously someone who has never shot a gun before.
>Pistol/rifle ballistics aren't as different as you'd think
That was never my point, dumbass. Ballistics are about the same (longer barrels have slightly higher velocity, that's about it though), if it's the same bullet being fired. That's my point. A longer gun is easier to shoot with because it's well longer. You can hold it steadier, and you have more barrel length between the blades so it's more accurate. The principles of firing a handgun are identical to firing a rifle. If you can shoot a handgun good, you can shoot a rifle better.
By your logic (pic related) is a practical hunting device, better even because its "takes less room/weight" like that fucking matters for hunting, go back to COD jackass.
>>486946 Boafeng is the standard for ham radio/emergency channels.
TBH, a good midland or samsung wouldn't hurt in place. I personally have a couple of Midands to go with my baofeng, because they are recharable by USB, (my solar charger can charge) or you can swap out the recharable battery for 3 AAAs. I use AAA for my universal. If it's not AAA, its not in my prep kit. I also found a 100 pack of Duracels on woot a while back for 14 bucks.
Unless you're talking about a radio like pic related (also AAA compatable, of course) These are pretty useful too, but you can't communicate with them.
>>486947 and honestly, in a SHTF scenario, how much privacy are any channels going to have? None, I promise. Worst thing you could do, is give away your location to someone after your shit. Or god forbid your loved one.
Useful for asking for help, or having a coded conversation. Never underestimate people's capability to triangulate your location based off of you broadcasting. It's not terribly hard if you know what you're doing.
>>480621 Not who you're responding too but if you go to a hospital with what looks to be a knife or gun wound they will report it to the police, possibly call the police. I assume this is what he's referring too.
>>486910 You're missing my point. A pistol is just as viable for hunting as a .22 rifle because of the game/range you're hunting. So my argument is that because of the reduced weight/space a .22 pistol is suitable for a BOB. Carrying a rifle with you while walking for miles is a pain compared to just a pack.
>someone who has never shot a gun before. My pattern is like 6 inches at 500 yards. What's up?
>>486994 >because .22 air rifles aren't killing small game every day at subsonic muzzle velocities Are you dumb?
I hope this is the right thread to post this but I'm looking to get a bike as an alternate means of transport as a BOV. I haven't ridden a bike in years and I'm not too sure which is the most common of tire sizes for available parts. right now I'm looking at a 27" Shogun T1000 Hybrid, or a 29" Shogun Stryker Cruiser.
Pic somewhat related, as this will have the racks I want to mount to it.
>>488927 >Standard size for road bikes What's the standard for mountain or trail bikes? Not being a smart ass, its just I'm vastly out of touch when it comes to bikes larger than 20". The only format I was really skilled in was 20" BMX while I also had a 10 speed, I never used it much.
What new features should I look for or avoid when choosing a bike for possibly going off road if need be? I also plan on putting racks on the front and rear to carry extra gear as well as look for a trailer. Anyone use these before and what are your thoughts?
>>4889463 >What's the standard for mountain or trail bikes? 26" used to be the standard for mountain bikes, but these days 26", 27.5", and 29"(=28") are fairly common, with perhaps 29" in the lead for new bikes.
>What new features should I look for or avoid when choosing a bike for possibly going off road if need be? >I also plan on putting racks on the front and rear to carry extra gear as well as look for a trailer. The kind of bike you're probably looking for is a touring bike. It's typically a bike that's made to be efficient and comfortable for long distances on the road, able to carry stuff, and have reasonable off-road capability. On the cheap, rigid (no suspension) mountain bikes make good tourers if you change the tires.
For long distances, having handlebars that you can hold in several different ways is nice. Being able to change hand positions can really help avoiding pain and fatigue on long rides.
Don't be afraid of hydraulic disc brakes. They have superior performance and are a lot easier to service than you might imagine.
Thanks for the input. I was a little hesitant on the disc brakes as that was totally new to me and the old school clamp brakes sucked when they got wet. When I was little I used to put serious miles on my bike just for fun so I know the importance of a comfy seat/saddle and decent handlebars.
I looked up my credit card reward points and I got enough to get a bike and there's two that I have been looking at that might fit my needs, the only problem is they are not designed to be what I would like the end result to be. They are made by Kent and the Shogun T1000 has a front suspension that would cancel out a front rack but it has a rear rack already on it and it is a 21 speed, another downside is it has the old school clamp brakes. The other Kent bike is the 29" Shogun Stryker Cruser, coaster brakes, fat tires (in the picture I think they are fat tires), however there's no gear selection or places to mount racks for the front and rear. I'll post the links and you let me know what you think. Basically this is a free bike shipped to my door and I only get one shot at a good freebee.
>>488993 One of my old bikes had coaster breaks and compared to the clamp style brakes on two bikes with only single gear ratio, I would go with coaster. However, for different terrain I would insist on a multi-gear bike.
Speaking of changing out the tires I heard somewhere that there are solid tires, this true or rumor? The reason I ask is that I don't want to be stuck anywhere with a flat, or get a flat with no time to repair the tire. Another thing is that this bike will be carrying me, by bag, and other gear so the tires will have to be heavy duty.
Well, thanks for the info, /k/ really isn't much help on these kinds of things.
On a side note, I was looking at getting a Baufeng radio for comms. I used to have a bunch of links saved but my HD took a shit and I lost them. Do you or anyone here have any links on Baufeng basics? I'm looking for beginner stuff like programming the radio, how to program, that kind of stuff.
Folding stock and removable barrel, or just ya know put a trash bag over it.
>must be carried for long periods
What's that even supposed to mean? If you have any kind of gun you're carrying it.
>.22 still only effective at pistol distances
.22 is effective at .22 range. It's more accurate when platformed in a long arm. I know how much this board has gone to the aspies, but do you realize how many vermin (squirrel, rabbit, armadillos) you need to shoot just to get enough calories to not keel over?
>>488146 >A pistol is just as viable for hunting as a .22
Viable how? It's less accurate and precise then a good 10/22. Do you know how much small game you need to just clear 2000kcal? You need to shoot as accurately and as consistently as possible. Like from a rifle. And not some gimmick handgun.
>My pattern is like 6 inches at 500 yards. What's up?
That might be impressive if I was retarded, and from a farm, but I'm not; so it isn't. You're also comparing shooting paper to hunting. That's like saying looking at a porn mag is the same as having sex. In either case you're equating shooting at paper to an actual experience. Go back to COD jackass.
>>489233 If you practice and know how to shoot a damned pistol you can effectively kill game with it. If you hunt to begin with, you are used to taking game. All you have to do it hunt with a pistol. Give it up. Yes a rifle is easier to fire, but a skilled shooter with a pistol is just as effective as a low skilled shooter with a rifle. Am I EVER going to shoot a squirrel at 100 yards? No. Am I EVER going to shoot one at 50 yards? Probably not, even with a rifle in SHTF, since ammo is precious.
Carrying a rifle constantly uses more energy, even slung over your shoulder. If you haven't hiked for miles with a pack and rifle you will not understand this. "An ounce in the morning is a pound in the afternoon"
>>489316 >a skilled shooter with a pistol is just as effective as a low skilled shooter with a rifle
Unless you're talking about a toddler with a 10/22 then no they don't. There isn't a hunter alive who uses a pistol (with all the shortcoming of being a pistol) instead a rifle just to save weight "because rifles are heavy". Why don't you try using your "awesome" mk.3 and try to hunt for enough calories to live on.
>Am I EVER going to shoot a squirrel at 100 yards
Do you know what accuracy means? It's not "how far I can shoot".
>>488146 >My pattern is like 6 inches at 500 yards. What's up?
Do you mean grouping you fuckin' aspie? Browsing /k/ doesn't count as shooting a gun or hunting experience.
>29" Technically similar in size to road bike, although road bikes are considered 700c. 29ers are taking over the market for hardtails (front suspension only) and rigid (no suspension) mountain bikes. With such a large diameter, they roll over everything, and hold speed well. Surley is a great brand for a 29er, and I recommend going with a hardtail as suspension requires frequent maintenance (if you care about your bike) >27.5" Contrary to popular belief, 27.5 (aka 650b) is closer to 26" than 29" making it a little more stable than 26" but still has the ability to get caught up on roots and rocks. >26" The playful and fun mtb wheel size. For a BOV I don't recommend as nowadays these bikes are meant to be thrown around.
>Regular Width or Fat Bike? Fat bikes have become more and more popular in the last year. They are great in the snow and sand but also face challenges including rare and expensive rims/hubs/tubes/tires. Coming on the market within the next 6 months or so will be mid fat bikes. Not normal width (Aprox 2-3") and not fat bike width (Aprox 5")
>What groupset? Every mechanic is going to tell you a million things but I would avoid srams mountain components. Shimano's deore groupset is not only affordable, but reliable, and features the best hydraulic disc brakes at that price point. With that being said, hydro brakes are reliable, but in extreme temperatures can lose that reliability. Some often find a nice mech disc break, adjusted properly, to suffice for long bikepacking trips.
>What are my other options? Cyclocross bikes offer more speed on road with the capability to transfer to off road. Single speed 29ers are almost maintenance free beasts if you have the legs.
Just my opinion. Any other questions please ask away!
>>490229 I asked this question with someone else but what are your thoughts on solid tires? I want to try to come up with every possible scenario and purchase accordingly. However I got a free bike coming my way and what coin I save here can be repurposed somewhere else.
>>490569 Since part of the definition of the term includes "carelessly lazy", yeah, it's a matter of some concern.
You don't have to immerse yourself in gun culture to have a basic working knowledge of the terminology.
Your claim of being an avid hunter raises my suspicions, especially when coupled with your statement about not hanging out with other gun owners. If you were that avid, you'd most likely be inclined to associate with others who share your interest.
>>490540 They're cool but: >HEAVY (Remember, this is rotational weight, not static weight, you'll feel it more) >you can't change PSI per terrain. >they are a BITCH to get on and off. Literally takes 4 grown men for one wheel
>>480117 For what it's worth my great grandpa would kill deer with a .22 pistol. He would set up a salt lick under his tree stand and BOOM HEADSHOT. For bugout I'd probably pick .22 as well. More ammo/weight.
>>489711 >>490025 >>490781 At 75 yards I'm just as accurate with a pistol as I am with a rifle. Nobody I know has taken a deer at ranges longer than that. If it was legal to carry a handgun where I live I'd be hunting durr and small game with one.
>>490715 Gotcha. I was thinking later down the road in case of all hell would break loose I didn't want to get a flat at the worst possible time, you know, cover all possible worst case scenarios.
What do you recommend for making the tires as flat resistant as possible other than avoiding getting flats. I heard about tire slime and for one of my older cars I used it in the tires with some pretty good results.
>>490889 Mora knives are good for what little they cost, I got one myself.
Knives are like any tool, expect to shell out for quality. Another thing to look for is a full tang, the Mora is not a full tang but a 3/4 tang at best. Also the quality/type of steel, meaning that stainless is good for keeping the blade from rusting but it dulls easier than high carbon, while high carbon will hold an edge longer but its also more tedious to sharpen and you have to make sure you keep a thin coating of oil or grease to protect the steel.
>>490889 One more thing to keep in mind is the type of blade you will be working with, a 6 inch blade will not be so easy to work with intricate bushcraft or game processing, and a smaller knife doesn't fair too well with batoning wood. But I think you probably already know that.
>>490913 Slime does nothing. Your best bet >puncture resistant tires Spend your money here. Continental makes some great ones. >MAINTAIN PSI I can't even begin to explain it how many flats could be avoided with proper tire pressure. Rubber is porous and loses air over time. Check pressure BEFORE EVERY RIDE
Slime and thick tubes as well as the rubber strips some put between tube and tire do absolutely nothing except waste money and weight.
Now that is a new one for me, last time I rode bikes for fun/transport, puncture resistant tires were just a dream. I had many a flat from broken glass or a nail in the road that I couldn't avoid in time.
Yeah, I know about doing a safety/function check on a bike before I roll out and tires are first on the list. I'm not a total noob, I just need some recommendations on the latest gear available. My knowledge is a bit outdated to say the least.
>>480102 you will never use those sutures. Are you gonna sew yourself up? What medical emergency may arrive where you will need those when steristrips, tape, direct pressure will fail. You'll end up sewing in an infection and making your problems worse. Sutures are a secondary medical wound management technique, not first aid.
>>490781 But they are comparably accurate. The videos in my posts previously demonstrate pistols taking 100 yard shots, one of them on a golf ball! So, just because you cannot hit targets with a pistol doesn't mean others can't. Yes, it is easier to shoot a rifle, but that doesn't make the pistol inaccurate, it makes you a bad shot with a pistol.
I recently purchased a military surplus Finnish gas mask bag with the intent to use it as a car survival kit. What are some essentials? My list so far is: Metal water bottle (can boil water in it too) Paracord Toilet paper Compass Knife Duct tape Gloves Hat Emergency blanket Poncho Small first aid kit Lighter Matches Cotton balls covered in Vaseline
>>491403 A tin cup and some 12 hour camp candles. With that setup, you can make hot beverages. Which is why you want to include some bouillion cubes and non-caffeine teas. The idea being that you're going to stay with your car. Think of it as a ready made shelter. A candle can keep the interior temperature above freezing. You have to pay attention to ventilation, though.
A cranklight and solar charger for your phone. A half dozen contractor-grade trashbags, more duct tape, basic tools (might be able to fix your car and get rolling again), Sterno, about 30 feet of stainless wire, towstrap, a case of bottled water, spare footwear, a change of clothes, maybe a tarp.
>>491336 >Yes, it is easier to shoot a rifle, but that doesn't make the pistol inaccurate, Pistols are, by your own admission, less accurate in general than rifles. Just because its possible to train skill to such a high level that you can compete with a rifle for accuracy, doesn't mean the rifle isn't inherently MORE accurate to start with.
>men aren't stronger than women, look at this world-class female body builder! See, told you women and men are equal!
>>491405 Yes, and both refer to how tightly your projectiles are placed together. Pretty well related. Your just an idiot who doesn't pattern his shotgun and find out what ammo it shoots the best.
>>491426 Accuracy has nothing to do with how easy it is to shoot a firearm. A rifle could be plenty accurate, but if it's so large you can't properly handle it and have trouble holding groups does that make the rifle inaccurate? No, it means the shooter can't handle the rifle.
I never said that a pistol is more accurate, I said they are comparable as they have similar ballistics. Therefore it is dependent on the shooter.
>>491458 >I never said that a pistol is more accurate, I said they are comparable as they have similar ballistics. Therefore it is dependent on the shooter. Yeah must be why sniper pistols are used by military and police all over the world.
>>491458 >A rifle could be plenty accurate, but if it's so large you can't properly handle it
That exact argument also applies to pistols. Moreso, actually, because the shooter is entirely dependent on grip to retain control. With rifles, the shoulder contact point offers greater control.
Your argument that rifles and pistols are inherently equally accurate is wrong. The longer sight radius on rifles is a physical feature that makes them more accurate. The configuration of a rifle eliminates more of the variables that affect accuracy. Details like minute differences in grip between shots have less effect for a rifle shooter.
All of this was discussed at great length starting in the 50s. Why are you reinventing the wheel?
>>491623 >entirely dependent on grip to retain control Actually, I can provide bone support firing a pistol, why can't you?
>The longer sight radius on rifles is a physical feature that makes them more accurate No. No it doesn't. It makes mistakes show up more readily. This literally has nothing to do with the firearm's ability to hit the target.
>>492574 >This literally has nothing to do with the firearm's ability to hit the target.
Point to you, I worded that poorly. Also rechecked some sources. Ok, longer sight radius makes it easier for the shooter to be more accurate.
What makes long arms inherently more accurate is a function of barrel harmonics and the typically greater mass of a longarm.
Regarding shooter accuracy- I find that I'm more accurate from an Isosceles stance than any of the Weaver variants. I can reliably hit a tennis ball with my Redhawk at 25 yards. The fact remains, pistols have 2 very closely spaced contact points, long arms have 3 at longer intervals. This facilitates control and accuracy.
The immutable underlying fact is, people are going to carry whatever they're most comfortable with. Personally, I'm going with a 10/22.
>>480836 So much paperwork to get a legal suppressor here in the US, and relying on a .22 for defense (Which is what handguns are for BTW) is not a terribly good idea. You are better off with your bow to hunt with and a 9mm pistol or .38 revolver for defense.
>>480213 >it has been well proven that a 22lr can be accurate and deadly from over 300 yards away No it hasn't, a fucking punch in the ass is more debilitating than .22lr at 300 yards. IF you can even hit them since it will have blown two counties over by then. >3 inch groups in a range setting at 130 yards >impressive
>Shit, there is ppl who can hit steel with a glock at 300 meters with a hand gun, no scope. Those are competition shooters or people with fucktons of time on their hands. You will not reliably hit with a pistol at those ranges unless you've trained for hundreds of hours to do so. Besides, at that point you're basically lobbing the rounds on target.
>>480774 >It stays zeroed for a long time because you store it, not constantly out in the wilderness for months on end. But I did say it would be on a rare occasion, and is still a waste of ammo. A good optic with a good mount will stay zeroed unless you beat it with a hammer. And even then there's some that will still stay mostly true.
>>495440 You're not going to get much better than that without a specialty rifle and some good glass.
>>496563 M16s are 2-3 MOA at /best/ and up to 6-8 at worst before they finally cycle them out. Sure they do minute of man at 500m but I don't believe for a second you got a grouping like that without hard proof, especially iron sights since you were a marine.
>>497048 An slightly accurized M16/AR15 can shoot 1 MOA easily, and sub-MOA with a little more work. Slightly accurized M16s and mil-spec AR15s are the most common rifles in NRA high power and Palma matches shot with iron sights at up to 1000 yards. 2-3 MOA wouldn't be even remotely competitive.
>>497048 >>497057 >>497070 I'm finished with this discussion. When I fired 9 shots in a row and my 10 inch shot spotter doesn't move noticeably through my RCO, I know I'm shooting a group less than 10 inches, so I guessed 6. I've seen people keyhole a shot from the 500 yard line. My only reference to this is because someone implied that I had never fired a gun and I then received further criticism because I mixed up the two related terms "pattern" and "group" after a couple beers. Then somebody tried to say they aren't related and that I don't know the difference between a shotgun and a rifle. This board is so silly some days. I'm out o this thread.
>>497246 A Marine who doesn't understand the importance of using proper nomenclature. And who apparently doesn't understand why communicating in a concise, accurate manner is a good thing. And blames it on the alcohol.
>>497102 >only one liter of water How many time does we have to say it?
>nightclothes I don't get this one. Most people sleep in underwear, I sleep in day clothes because I am a lazy fucker with an excellent body temperature regulation, but free additional weight ? I don't get it.
>tape >box cutter >alcohol >in glass bottle Why? Do you hate yourself?
>no phone with a standard battery that stay alive two weeks if you don't shut your phone off
>dry sleep in a thrash bag Try it once and you I promise you will forget the idea.
>ice storm Stay in man. Just stay in. Believe me. It require specialised stuff to get in there. I had to wait entire night on a desk, it's not that bad even with just your clothes.
Cigarettes turn bad after a certain time. Be aware of it.
Basically, all you need is a MRE or two, and a spare clothes to put under your head. Eventually two quilts and a ski hat to sleep in your trunk if you are trapped on the road. One on the ground and one on you.
So wait, for what length of time are you packing those bags? Because unless it's a day, I can't imagine going with only a liter of water. I was thinking about bringing a 2 gallon gas can filled with water, because I can't ensure that there will be water everyday where I'm going.
>>498525 Water cans don't have those annoying EPA approved spouts. Who the hell carries water in a gas can-on a walking trip? 2, 3 litre platypus bladders gets essentially the same effect in a much more manageable package that fits in a pack.
You don't want to use a rifle scope as your viewing aid.
You don't need the saws. You need more water.
The axe's handle is too long, though you could use it as a splint.... There's an idea.
A 500 pack of matches would be worthwhile.
I live in the wide open woods, and water is the main thing you need, and it's something people to place enough emphasis on.
A bottle of hand sanitizer (ethanol based) to use before you eat (if you must use hands) is also needed IMO. GI infections are the most problematic when out by yourself, and you don't want to get one. You could go with a bottle of vodka or other high proof liqueur in place of the hand sanitizer -- you can also drink it if you're having trouble sleeping. So two uses.
>>498961 I'm just saying: if he's going for innawoods rather than 72 hour bug out, he's on the right track. He seems to have his priorities awry, though. He's taking tools used to build permanent shelters, but has about a day and a half worth of water purification.
Thinking about putting together a BOB to keep in the truck, but unsure on the bag itself. Sport.woot has an "Allen MP4297 Edge Bail Out Bag - Digital Camo" for $24 that looks decent. (I'd link it, but my post keeps getting flagged as spam) Is that bag sufficient?
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from them. If you need IP information for a Poster - you need to contact them. This website shows only archived content.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content you can contact me at email@example.com with that post and thread number and it will be removed as soon as possible.