>>32627540 It hasn't yet, petition and protest is needed. If 4chan can make an online petition for making tumblerites officially retarded landwales then 4chan can petition EU MEPS not to allow this leg' from passing
>>32627540 Here in Denmark there is no specific law against it, but our so called "racism paragraph" prohibits "public, or with intent of propagation in a wider circle, statements or other messages by which a group of persons are threatened, ridiculed or degraded based on their race, colour of skin, national or ethnic origin, faith or sexual orientation", so if Jews fell threatened, ridiculed or degraded when people deny the holocaust they can have them punished with 2 years of prison, more if there are aggravating circumstances.
So its not directly illegal, but it can be illegal.
Worst thing is that even if you have irrefutable proof that your statement or message is the objective truth you can still be punished for it if your uttering of this truth hurt someones feelings.
But do not worry, Trykkefrihedsselskabet (lit "The Printing-freedom society") is fighting tooth and nail to have it removed from the penal code.
>>32628433 The original law from 1939 was indeed made to protect Jews, but the present incarnation from '71 stems from a Conservative attempt to capture socially progressive votes in the upcoming election by being the first party to propose legistration to conform with the UN anti racial discrimination convention of '65, the election went badly for the blue parties but the paragraph stayed because the Socialdemocrats didn't want to loose commie support by removing it.
The facts are settled, and have been for a long while. The reason denying it is illegal because it has a direct anti-Semitic agenda. The purpose of it is to suggest jews are controlling a narrative, which casts doubt and, as we have seen, violence on an entire group of people.
Its not seeking the truth, its hating a people and denying a truth to justify it.
It is illegal in some places because there is so much evidence proving it happened that you may as well declare the Vietnam War never happened and the only possible motivation for doing so is racism. Not that I agree with that reasoning, I am strongly in favour of free speech, let idiots make themselves look like idiots as far as I am concerned.
>>32627540 It's illegal to incite hatred against minorities, which is basically what Holocaust denial does. Holocaust denial is also a lie per definition (if it's not a lie, it's not considered denial), so it's not an issue anyone cares about.
>>32632360 >Europe is one country >my laws count for everyone else >holocaust denial is legal because I say so >nobody has ever been imprisoned or fined for it, ever >it's all a Jewish alien conspiracy
>>32633344 You will get punished for yelling "fire" in a packed theater in every civilized country. This is the same. It is not illegal to have wrong opinions, just to spread that kind of bullshit that hurts others.
For the same reason that running into a public space and shouting 'my purple dildo is the friend of humanity and I love swiss cheese pigs dressed in nightgowns!' will get you locked up in a mental ward- it is insanity.
>>32633625 Spreading lies about an ethnic group can incite violence against that ethnic group and history shows that that is a realistic expectation, thus it is reasonable to punish the publication of such lies. Most European countries have always been more authoritarian and harmony oriented than the USA, this has nothing to do with some Jewish conspiracy.
>1. Yelling fire in a theater is not an opinion Google "analogy".
>>32632888 Because there is a lot of evidence it is illegal to question it? Isn't that kind of stupid? If it's such a documented fact they should welcome discussion.
A British historian have tried for years to research Holocaust be is denied. All he wants to do is to get some soil samples so he can measure the amount of acid used to see if it correlates with the established facts.
He smuggled some home and he claims that the acid sample shows far less acid then one expect. He is now banned from entering Auschwitz. Possible also Poland?
Also, some claim that it would be impossible to kill that amount of people in the time that they had. So if it is real, the scope is a lot less than claimed.
>The ITS archives comprise approximately 30 million documents about incarceration in concentration camps, ghettos and Gestapo prisons, about forced labour and displaced persons. The general inventory offers an overview.
>>32633819 >it is illegal to question it? No, deniers claim it is illegal to question it, but it has been continuously questioned and revised for more than half a century by historians. The difference between a revisionist and a denier is that one looks at the facts and finds new conclusions that might fit them better than old ones, while the other decides on a conclusion and then twists the facts or simply makes up lies to support it.
>>32634020 That's not how history works, you retard. You can't make a priori assumptions and then try to disprove them. You only have a certain amount of information with varying degrees of reliability and you try to fiddle that into an internally consistent theory that incorporates and contextualizes as much evidence as possible.
>>32634185 Never heard of Irving doing anything like that, you sound like you mixed up a bunch of shit you never understood, which makes me wonder why you don't just do the smart thing and follow experts? It's the best heuristic if you cannot understand and issue.
>>32633630 Their not, the standard world map is distorted because of the sphere shape of earth, making the north seem larger than it actually is. Africa alone can fit the landmass of western europe, usa, china and india into it
>>32633585 If it's so easy to debunk then why do you not make proper arguments in the thread and instead dump a load of shit that is riddles with lies and omissions? According to denier logic, a single falsehood discredits a source completely, so since every single denier denier publication contains falsehoods, they are all unreliable, yes?
>>32634385 > We want to research the possibility of Holocaust being fake > Sure, here is all the documents we wrote about it > Can I take some tests? > No. You can read the history. > Thanks. Great fucking help.
He claims that he did in a documentary. Can't remember the name because it's 3-4 years since I saw it. His hypothesis is that the gas chambers was used to disinfect clothes because of all the sickness in the concentration camps. The amount of gas required for this purpose would be a lot less and a soil sample would determine what the chambers may have been used for. He was not allowed such a test, so he (or someone cooperating with him) smuggled some.
>>32634590 As I said, you confuse Irving and Zundel or Rudolf. And the amount of gas used for delousing would actually be far higher (higher concentration and longer application time) than that used in a homicidal gas chamber, because insects have a far higher resistance to it than humans. Really, you have no idea what you are talking about, so just stop and maybe read a book on the topic before you throw your lot in with the conspiracy nuts.
>I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews. >I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz
>>32634699 >cherry pick eye witness testimony >ignore archeological evidence, the mountains of witnesses that are sound and the literally metric tons of German and foreign documents backing up the story >be surprised when people call you a shill
>>32634687 Ok. It really doesn't fucking matter. The point is, if this is such a sound theory, it would withstand all and every attempt to discredit it and it should be welcomed. At this time it is not, suggesting that they might be hiding something.
>>32634831 But the cyanide residue has been analyzed by real researchers and the findings of Rudolf and Zundel have been criticized by experts with the consensus being that their conclusions are not backed by the evidence and that their methodology was unsound. Historians don't like it when amateurs fumble with their artifacts, because they are irreplaceable, especially not when those amateurs are dishonest demagogues who are not interested in the truth (holocaust deniers).
>>32634790 >ignore archeological evidence, there isn't any
People died in concentration camps because of disease (Typhus) and hunger in the last days.
Systematic killing are unlikely because misbehavior of Nazis was punished. Konrad Morgan was one of the investigators. Example of someone punished for killing 4 jews: Karl Koch. This is in the Nuremberg documents.
>>32634972 Fair enough. If that is the case then that is good. But the Holocaust would be better served by allowing a discussion. When one side claim to have the truth, denies others of speaking against them, ridicules them and make life for them a living hell, some people, me included, get suspicious.
>>32635169 >Systematic killing are unlikely because misbehavior of Nazis was punished. Konrad Morgan was one of the investigators. Example of someone punished for killing 4 jews: Karl Koch. This is in the Nuremberg documents.
>>32635222 There are many historians who are vocal against the criminalization of Holocaust denial, but it's not something the public cares about and the leftists would rather add more thought crimes than remove some.
>>32633867 >Labor camps and detention facilities are forms of willful, systematic genocide
Most internees died in late 1944/1945 because the German government ran out of food and supplies while trying to maintain a total war economy, as well as camp outbreaks of typhus that became hard to restrict when they were reduced to skeleton staffs due to manpower shortages. Many also died as a result of American firebombing raids which often destroyed supply shipments meant for prison camps. Camp incineration facilities were insufficient for the sheer volume of people claimed to be murdered by the German government; rather, the deteriorating conditions of the camps exacerbated by supply shortages, the brutal winter of 1945, and the zero-tolerance attitude adopted by guards led to the eventual liquidation of most camps by March 1945.
>>32635261 Koch is irrelevant. He was punished for being a corrupt piece of shit and for murdering people on his own account. The Nazis made it a point to randomly murder Jews for fun, but to do it cooly and according to orders, because it was necessary for the greater good, although not all perpetrators followed those ideas to the point. Especially the Dirlewanger brigade was full of degenerates who killed because they enjoyed it.
You will of course point me to the peer reviewed history book that backs you up on this.
Keep in mind before you start screeching that this entire subject was the focus of much historical research and arguments over the numbers etc long before any laws were put in place that restricted Holocaust denial and that Holocaust denial still isn't illegal in most countries.
>>32635535 The Nazis blew up the gas chambers that were in use when they retreated, so the Russians incompetently restored a proof of concept gas chamber the Nazis had converted to a bomb shelter to something resembling the original layout and added a chimney.
>>32635569 History is written by the winners. You will of course agree that the allies were highly interested in painting the germans as evil and the jews needed a good excuse to legitimize the creation of Israel. I'd love to see proper, peer-reviewed research on this, but it is simply impossible to have when you can actually land in jail for even questioning the official narrative. "Peer-reviewed" means accepted by the majority in the field, in a political environment like that you can be either peer-reviewed or unbiased, not both.
>>32636120 Hey, you were the once saying there are blueprints and testimonies proving that was indeed a gas chamber. You made a claim, it's up to you to prove it. If you have to shitpost like this it means you have no proof. If you had, a single post with a link would have ended the discussion.
History is indeed written by the winners, it hasn't stopped a considerable amount of research going into the horrors inflicted by the Soviets during WW2 or plenty of research and discussion into the nuclear bombing of Japan or the British bombing of Germany and some historians coming to the conclusion they were war crimes.
By the end of WW2 the British were very anti the idea of the creation of Israel and were specifically trying to limit Jewish immigration to Palestine, to this end they set up a government inquiry specifically aimed at downplaying the number of Jews killed by the Nazis.
You guys know Hitler said he was going to annihilate the Jews as far back as 1922, right? Joseph Goebbels wrote in his diary about exterminating Jews in Europe, Karl Jager talked about it, Heinrich Himmler gave a speech to the SS about it...
The have testimonials from people other than Jews (like gypsies and homos) confirming what the Nazis were doing.
>>32636313 I do and see posts like >>32635986 From your side I see only ad-hominem and derailment attempts, just empty shitposting and utter refusal to back any claims. I think it's pretty obvious who is full of shit here.
Anecdotal evidence from the people that actually did it is pretty good evidence, unless you're telling me bunches of old racist Germans are just perpetuating a lie that dishonors them just to give the Jew a leg up.
>OY VEY I can't disprove your sources, so here's a site with 30 million documents a couple of which might be relevant to our discussion. >OY VEY you post proof and documentairies, so I'll just go full ad hominem acting like if you don't believe in our hoax you're insane.
So what are you saying, that the gays are lying just so the Jews can have Israel? The gypsies and the crippled are doing the same? None of those people were killed by the Nazis, they all just feel like lying for the sake of the Jews? Rrriiiiiiigght.
>Meet a Holocaust Survivor >Hear a Holocaust Survivor >From Hate to Hope >From the Depths of Hate
>Holograms of Holocaust survivors let crucial stories live on "We lose many of our survivors every year," Debevec says. "We definitely feel the sense of urgency and that realistically it's going to be now or never."
How am I supposed to take the holocaust seriously when the jews actually made a place called the fucking Museum of Tolerance and they drag around the same bunch of jews like some kind of Disney world attraction?
Not to mention the fucking holograms. Holy shit. Their evidence is so flimsy and depends so much on emotional sob stories from "holocaust victims" that they have to make fucking holograms just to keep milking this cow? What the hell? You can't even make up something this crazy.
>>32636636 But you already said that all testimony is lies and you are extremely against the idea that the Holocaust could have happened, so if I showed you a blueprint that prints morgue you would simply claim it really is a morgue, no matter how nonsensical that is in the overall context of things, but of course you don't know that context because you never read anything at all about Holocaust history, so really it would be a huge waste of time for me to try and "prove" to you what you do not want to know or believe.
Are you fucking joking? Yeah man, sure, the eyewitnesses can't remember whether or not they gassed millions of people to death and incinerated the bodies. Yeah, they JUST FORGOT if that is how it actually happened or not.
>>32635925 As someone with German and Austrian family, the thing they will always say is "Wir haben das nicht gewust", Hitler never made any kind of public speech saying he was gonna murder all the Jews, the only Germans and Austrians that will say they saw anything holocaust related happening where the oh so objective Jews they paraded around for the Nuremberg trials.
>>32627540 It's not illegal here in UK. I think it's illegal in France and Germany and many East European countries.
We have no laws in my country (England) about expressing any opinion about the holocaust. I can say what I wish, but if I persisted to deny it, I could fail job interviews etc. I would never be arrested and sent to trial at a court. (unlike Germany)
All the documents are documents from the Nazis relating to them locking people in concentration camps.
They are all relevant.
The point of the International Tracing Service was that it was set up in the aftermath of WW2 to help people find out what happened to their missing relatives, long before anyone had a chance to fabricate millions of documents,
Nice attempt at shitposting though, 5/10 made me reply.
>>32636913 >still nothing How is anyone supposed to believe you when you can't even back any of your claims? There is about 15min of posts going back and forth with "proof pls" and "no, I won't give it, but trust me it's totally true!" None of that is necessary and could have been avoided if you just posted a single link right away. But you obviously don't have one, so you'll reply to me again with some ad-hominem in hopes that it might divert attention from you being full of shit.
You made a claim, prove it. You said there are blueprints and documents, where are they? Show us.
"Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows - at the Marienplatz in Munich, for example - as many as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanged indiscriminately, and they will remain hanging until they stink; they will hang there as long as the principles of hygiene permit. As soon as they have been untied, the next batch will be strung up, and so on down the line, until the last Jew in Munich has been exterminated. Other cities will follow suit, precisely in this fashion, until all Germany has been completely cleansed of Jews."
And he said this in a speech at Nuremburg in 1939:
"...if the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshevizing of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe!"
And he said this of the Polish later in 1939:
"Our strength is our quickness and our brutality. Genghis Khan had millions of women and children hunted down and killed, deliberately and with a gay heart. History sees in him only the great founder of States. What the weak Western European civilization alleges about me, does not matter. I have given the order – and will have everyone shot who utters but one word of criticism – that the aim of this war does not consist in reaching certain designated [geographical] lines, but in the enemies' physical elimination. Thus, for the time being only in the east, I put ready my Death's Head units, with the order to kill without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of the Polish race or language. Only thus will we gain the living space that we need. Who still talks nowadays of the extermination of the Armenians?"
Don't tell me Hitler never said these things publicly.
>>32637186 The only truly enlightened ones are the ones who are on 4chan posting image macros?
The point isn't that I think academics are infallible or have no (liberal) agenda. It's that they have access to good, solid citation material that they can use to formulate decent responses. Of the sort you don't see here.
My grandma lived in America from the early 50s til her death in 2011. She lived in Germany during the war, her father was in the German Navy. She was well aware the Nazis were doing the shit they were doing. She wasn't saying "we didn't know", because she wasn't going to get locked up for it.
>>32636981 Locking people up in detention camps does not equal gassing. Oh hey here's documents proving Americans shoved a million germans in detention camps, that means they where gassed and holocausted too right?
>>32637106 That isn't going to happen though, because if you got a legally binding confession of lying from every jew on the planet, a library of evidence and six years of video people would still bury their head in the sand.
Of course, the entirety of the holocaust myth is somewhat misattributed to random jews, when it was 100% a Soviet creation. (Yes I know the origin of the leadership)
It was to distract attention from the rampaging rape and murder of the Red Army, so they could deflect any criticism with hey, we stopped those evil fascists killing six infinitillion jews.
>>32637274 >I don't believe the 5.7 million figure. Which has no basis in fact. Show me any substantive peer reviewed article that gives a clear figure.
I just provided you a government inquiry that gives that figure.
There is no clear single figure, we are talking about events that happened over the course of 6 years in several countries and thousands of locations from concentration camps to Jews shot dead in the snow as the Germans invaded Russia.
>Well most documents estimate 6 million jews total in the parts of Europe where extermination took place.
This is inaccurate. Most historical research provides an estimated figure of 5-6 million, with some as low as 4 million and a small number over the 6 million figure.
You really don't understand how history works if you think the figures are based on primary documents that give an exact figure of 6 million.
>>32637316 And did you ask her what parts she actually saw and what part was enforced in the greatest media charade ever? Not to mention your grandmother might not actually want you to be a holohoax denier, because, y'know, people actually get killed over this shit.
So /pol/ basically thinks the Jews are all powerful, but for some reason need to make up reasons to get what they want? Instead of faking the holocaust to get Israel, why didn't they just move themselves into Israel? They are all-powerful, aren't they? They can just do whatever they want? It isn't like nations don't go around conquering countries still... why didn't they just retake Palestine through force, like they did after they were placed there?
Unsere Stärke ist unsere Schnelligkeit und unsere Brutalität. Dschingis Khan hat Millionen Frauen und Kinder in den Tod gejagt, bewußt und fröhlichen Herzens. Die Geschichte sieht in ihm nur den großen Staatengründer. Was die schwache westeuropäische Zivilisation über mich behauptet, ist gleichgültig. Ich habe den Befehl gegeben – und ich lasse jeden füsilieren, der auch nur ein Wort der Kritik äußert – daß das Kriegsziel nicht im Erreichen von bestimmten Linien, sondern in der physischen Vernichtung des Gegners besteht. So habe ich, einstweilen nur im Osten, meine Totenkopfverbände bereitgestellt mit dem Befehl, unbarmherzig und mitleidslos Mann, Weib und Kind polnischer Abstammung und Sprache in den Tod zu schicken. Nur so gewinnen wir den Lebensraum, den wir brauchen. Wer redet heute noch von der Vernichtung der Armenier?
>>32637637 Jews already had Israel before WW2 numbnuts. Before WW1 they had no chance of taking Israel, y'know, that whole Ottoman empire thing. And at the end of WW1, why make a war over Israel if you can just lobby the gullible apocalyptic British government to give you the land for free.
>>32637773 Money, do you have any idea how much Germany payed to Israel as reparations to the richest religious group on the planet? And ofcourse to try to squash any new uprisings of antisemitism, because y'know, those happened quite often before the 20th century.
What, it is unreasonable for them to ask for a timestamped selfie of Hitler with a bunch of dead Jews and a hand-written caption by the man himself reading "Wanted to see how the Holocaust was going. Photographed myself next to the gas chambers with some dead Heebs. OMG, Holocaust is SO happening! ~The Actual Adolf Hitler"?
The 6 million is more important because if the Holocaust is true, then they were intentionally rounded up and murdered. How do you not understand that Russian citizens that happened to be collateral damage isn't the same as intentionally trying to exterminate a group of people?
you're an idiot if you don't believe in the holocaust, the worst event ever in human history, and hitler was the most evil man ever born, and the jews are always persecuted and never again will we let the jews be persecuted
>>32637946 >again I ask why are these 6 million so important.
I would actually agree that the approximately 5-6 million Jews killed in WW2 is chump change compared to the total numbers killed.
I do agree that when talking about the genocide that took place the other 11 million victims of the Holocaust should get more of a mention.
I would offer (in a way of defence to those that harp on about Jewish deaths, which doesn't include me) that ion fairness 5-6 million is pretty much half of the Jews in Europe, making it a pretty uniquely horrific genocide.
I'm sorry though, none of that changes solidly established historical research.
>you still haven't provided me with evidence of the dead 6 gorillion. >although you have brought up some valid points and a appreciate your semi civil discourse.
I appreciate civil and intelligent discussion on all matters on /pol/ while it can be fun to sling shit at each other my favourite threads are the one that result in an interesting discussion.
Thank you as well.
I never tried to prove exactly 6 "gorrillion" half my point is that historical estimates are 5-6 million based on a huge amount of evidence, not that someone pulled a 6 million figure out of their bottom one day,
>>32635426 Would you kindly post some links yourself?, I'm eager to see what shit you can come up with. Maybe something explaining in detail how six million precious Jews were gassed and turned into soap and lampshades n shit. If you can't or not willing too, then gtfo.
>>32638532 Hitler did a piss poor job in WW2. Heck, I could have done a better job killing those supposed 600 trillion Joos. But then again, I'm from the future compared to Hitler. Maybe a time machine would be enough. Locate the good man, and tell him to actually gas the kikes for fucks sakes. It'll save him trouble in the long run.
>>32638566 >I'm eager to see what shit you can come up with. Maybe something explaining in detail how six million precious Jews were gassed and turned into soap and lampshades n shit. If you can't or not willing too, then gtfo
>>32639368 >Neato. 99%+ of revisionists don't deny that this happened.
Yes, go on?
Is you position that it was happy and fun in the camps?
Or that they died of disease and starvation but it wasn't the Nazi's fault - even though it is well established that forcibly rounding people in camps where they "accidentally" or otherwise die is entirely your fault?
Or have you got some new creative and fun definition that disagrees with 99% of your denialist peers.
>>32637637 >So /pol/ basically thinks the Jews are all powerful, but for some reason need to make up reasons to get what they want?
The Jews are powerful, but they are not all-powerful. Even powerful entities have to use concrete methods to achieve their ends--they can't just snap their fingers and have what they want. The holocaust myth is one example of a concrete method used by a powerful entity to achieve its ends.
>>32637845 >The tactics used by holocaust deniers can be used to deny just about every historical event ever recorded.
Revisionists demand proof beyond a reasonable doubt--granted. But that's because the holocaust is supposed to have been an unprecedented act of deliberate, systematic genocide on a massive scale. Extraordinary accusations require extraordinary evidence. (No, documents and contradictory eyewitness accounts do not suffice.)
In contrast, comparatively mundane historical events don't require the same amount of evidence, because similar events are claimed to have occurred many times across time and space.
You claim that some women were raped after some city was sacked? There are a few independent accounts that say roughly the same thing? Okay, it probably happened. There are hundreds of accounts of women being raped after the fall of one city or another in many different locations, at many different times.
You claim that after a particular city was sacked, the young children were raped to death while their mothers were forced to watch, and then the infants were cooked and eaten by the conquerors? Okay, prove it. There are a couple of different accounts that say roughly the same thing? Hmmmm, nope. Not good enough.
I don't deny that the Nazis rounded Jews up and put them in concentration camps. I don't deny that many Jews died as a result, and that the Nazis are responsible for their deaths. I deny that the Nazis deliberately and systematically exterminated a large number of Jews.
>>32640679 >I don't know what world you live in but tens of thousands of eye witness testimonies and millions of documents are evidence in any court of law.
The vast majority of this evidence has to do with the existence of concentration camps, the fact that Jews were rounded up, etc., etc. A tiny fraction has to do with the deliberate extermination of the Jews as a people, and that which does is spotty and self-contradictory.
>>32641239 You must be completely retarded if you don't think rounding up Jews and only Jews across Europe and exterminating them while the leaders of the country talk about killing those faggots for good while the war provides cover is somehow not a systematic genocide. The exact procedures in many extermination camps are somewhat questionable, because there is little concrete evidence, but that is not very relevant in the big picture, because there are train schedules and other statistics that show that millions of people vanished from the face of the earth in those places.
Who you're not allowed to critizise doesn't show you that the ones you're not allowed to critizise rule you. It's not what's implying, but rather it's about knowing who would benefit for you not critizising that target.
>>32634972 Sadly, it's ok if you want to preserve those artifacts, but if you raise the acusation of "demagogues" to people that actually weren't able to do the research with those "holy artifacts" (wich makes them unable to be proben actually as demagogues), you allow to anyone to do accusations, legitimizing their accusations of hoax.
I've seen this pattern so many times before, do you really just log here for fun? I mean, you really have to be bored to enter /pol/ all the time to give really poor excuses as to why we should believe to the holy bible of the anunnakis. Why don't you try to show us why we're wrong instead of just assuming that video is wrong? just hold a txt with each one of those links pointing where it's wrong.
Don't want to do that? too bad, people here want to actually do holocaust research and they're literally not being allowed, you at least can defend your theory and show us how wrong we are. C'mon, too much work?
>>32644997 Yeah, pretty much. I used to write tl;dr posts that apparently no hoaxer ever actually read, because I never got any replies at all, so I moved to pointing out more general trends and make fun of their silly way of thinking.
>>32644760 Deniers are not born as deniers, they are deniers because of the things they do and say every day. The act of holocaust denial necessitates intellectual dishonesty and why would you give someone who is dishonest access to valuable old documents?
>>32645091 But you're not making fun. You're are actually looking like a shill.
You could just screencap your posts and repost them if they were so full of truth.
I doubt they had been unreplied, given that shills here continue to praise each other like as it's being seen in this thread.
do yourself a favor, you're not convincing no one like this, not without doing a real effort. Just go somewhere else, Go to /diy/ and learn to do something cool, or just go to /d/ and have a good fap. Your disrespect for your own chance to explain and defend truth makes you unworthy of this place. Please, get out.
>>32645235 >Deniers are not born as deniers >DEVIATING FOR THE OFFICIAL STORY SHOULD BE CRIMINALIZED, IT IS UNNATURAL TO NOT BELIEVE IN MY TALE WETHER IS TRUTH OR NOT >they are deniers because of the things they do and say every day. >SAYING THIS AT THIS POINT OF THE CONVERSATION MAKES NO SENSE, BUT I GUESS NO ONE WILL NOTICE
>The act of holocaust denial necessitates intellectual dishonesty >AND I'M NOT GIVING ANY EVIDENCE OF THIS STATEMENT, NO DISCUSSION YOU JUST HAVE TO ASSUME IT'S LIKE THIS BECAUSE DEVIATING FROM WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD REPETEADLY SINCE CHILD IS UNNATURAL AND A SIN, DON'T DISSOBEY MY AUTHORITY, WAAA WAAA >and why would you give someone who is dishonest access to valuable old documents? because, retard, you have no evidence that this people is dishonest, and by assuming that certain people is dishonest just for something they want to check is like intelectually allowing any kind of prejudice based on any little detail, from some opinions to race. Specially when there is obviously ways for this research to be allowed in a safe manner for the documents.
Basically, either researchers are allowed to research, or you're enabling us to believe you're disencouraging research for the worst reasons possible. You can assume the worst from researchers, We can assume the worst from you.
>>32645288 >You could just screencap your posts and repost them if they were so full of truth. What would be the point? Spamming jpgs is incredibly stupid and I've tried to talk reason often enough to know that ignorance on the side of the deniers is systematic and intentional. They do not care about the truth. They want the holocaust to be a fraud and will reject or ignore anything that implies otherwise. Look at this thread, you say anything about the Holocaust, and they want a source. And if you gave them a source, they would intentionally misread it. And if you gave them context, they nitpick things to misread it again, and if that doesn't work, they'll just claim that every document is forged and every statement is the result of torture or Jewish mind control or Soviet conspiracy or just "victors write history hurr". At that point you've written several pages and have gotten nothing but the most inane and dishonest shitposting in response. Why expend all that energy? Nobody wants to learn. The only people I bother to correct are those who believe the Holocaust but get something wrong in their posts. Of the deniers I just make fun or point of general mistakes in their thought process, not that they have the mental capacity to understand the concepts of metacognition or epistemology.
>>32645621 The thing is that you have absolutely no knowledge about Holocaust history, so to you it is just the poor persecuted deniers saying something that makes you feel good versus the evil Jewish historians saying something that makes you feel bad, so you side with the poor deniers and white knight them. But in reality, it can easily be shown that every single one of them is a manipulating lying cunt, and their manipulation and lying is why they are reviled. When historians revise history, they sometimes get involved in ferocious debates, but never get ostracized or go to prison. You know what their secret is? They use methodology that is conductive to finding the truth and they are intellectually honest. If deniers did the same, they would not get prosecuted anymore, but then again, if they did that they would find that the Holocaust happpened and wouldn't be deniers anymore. See: Jean-Claude Pressac
>>32645624 But you did not give any sources at all. You just say this kind of shit to avoid actually providing anything while still acting like you've just proven everybody wrong. It's the same tactic SJWs use all the time, just avoid any rational discourse and talk shit about the opposition while pretending to have the high ground.
>>32645624 >they'll just claim that every document is forged and every statement is the result of torture.
Sadly, given the scenario we're at, it's perfectly possible. And I don't understand why it's so hard for you that this people have a standard so high.
Look at the scenario, just for a moment.
The winners tell you to not deny their story, while not allowing you to see real documents and perform research. It has happened before in too many times that there were incredible outrageous stories of defamation (skin lamps, giant electric chairs). There has been torture of MOST of the loosers higher officials to the point of givin them irreversible testicle damage.
>but they wouldn't confess otherwise Retard logic, you can make someone confess anything with torture. >but they were loyal because magic nazi indoctrination training No, you're a retard.
I'm not saying the holocaust didn't happen, I'm just saying that you acting like we shouldn't require MORE than usual,is retarded, specially when there could be a terrible crime happening right now, Specially when this story is being milked irrespectfully to get funds to bombard everywhere and shape society.
>>32645946 I did, it's exactly what I'm talking about: a pile of words just to say the equivalent of "shut up you racist shitlord!" If you want to convince people they are wrong, you've got to show them why the are wrong. Dismissing anybody who disagrees or passing laws to penalize disagreement is only hurting your own position.
>>32645946 >we need jew defense force because posts like this I might be truthful with you. You might be tired of defending your point, but that doesn't make you right you nor your oponents, you should continue defending truth with all your strenght. Just being tired is not an excuse.
Plus, really, just do screencaps or pastebins. It's the minimal efforts.
Btw, you're wrong in everything you said in this thread. I'm tired of correcting people like you, don't bother replying you would prove me even more right >notice how can anyone do the same?
Defending truth is a fulltime job, wether you know truth or not there is no single more unrequited but necessary job in this world than defending truth the best way that you can.
This is never done by silencing your oponents, nor acting like you were right when you didn't prove shit. This is done by going on and on and on till your oponents or you get convinced or you die.
Your conviction is weak, and again, you're unworthy of /pol/. Do yourself a favor, if you're "so tired" of defending truth, just get out.
>>32646105 The evidence for the Holocaust is better than that for moth other events in history and deniers love to claim torture and forgery for everything and anything without feeling an obligation to back up their claims. all they do is point towards a single instance and claim that it applies for all statements, no matter when, where or under what circumstances they were made. These funny ridiculous stories deniers keep bringing up were also either never part of history, are true, or have been removed by historians working with proper methodology, never by conspiracy retards yelling lies.
>>32646286 This is an online image board. I come here to talk to people about stuff and have fun, not to educate people who are obtuse on purpose. I lead the horse to the water, but if it doesn't want to drink, I'll throw some pebbles at it and take it easy, because I learned that even if I wrestle it and put its nose under water, it will still not drink.
I think it's stupid to be on a crusade for truth on an anonymous image board with no post history and a very low level of debate, where most people think that calling someone a Jew or JIDF is an acceptable rebuke.
Basically, if one side does not agree that honesty and open mindedness are necessary requirements for a productive conversation, it becomes tedious and obnoxious to try and confront them.
>>32646537 >Basically, if one side does not agree that honesty and open mindedness are necessary requirements for a productive conversation, it becomes tedious and obnoxious to try and confront them. Says the guy who prefers to shitpost about his opposition in a debate instead of providing actual arguments in support of his position.
>>32646537 Anonimity is the only thing that makes conversation legitimate, given that people here will probably not being convicted for discussing.
You have to admit that this is a problem at least. You have to admit that saying that a position over certain subject is criminalizable is simply outrageous, no matter how "bigoted" that position is.
also >repeating the same again, even if reasons for why your behaviour is shit have been provided Looks who is an obtuse retard now. You're using SJW tactics and at the same time you dare to talk about intelectual dishonesty.
You simply can't call your oponents dishonest if you're not willing to provide evidence.Yours is an act of prejudice, and you're enabling prejudice of other kinds with it.
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