Notice how his cities are completely empty. No people, no stores, no restaurants, no coffee shops. Just faceless buildings. It is a city devoid of life.
Even Hitler took the time to draw people in his paintings. The Venus Project guy doesn't understand human nature and therefore hates humans. Real people have no place in his vision of communism run by machines.
Everybody must have been liquidated. Post the drawings of the circular, shiny white concentration camps. Show us the pretty pictures of the fully automated crematoriums.
>>33162458 Socialism and all of it's relatives are all about "the plan", but if "the planners" must choose between the people and "the plan", they WILL choose "the plan", even if "the plan" fails. And "the plan" WILL fail.
>>33162458 You are actually discrediting an entire project based off of your own art critique? Look again then. What you see as 'devoid of life' I see as a blank space to project the multitude of possibilities as to what could pass for life in a future unconstrained by resources. Hitler may very well have drawn in his own little people, but a people that submitted to his vision of them too.
Also that picture is in serious need of quotation marks around every utterance of 'communism' by those 4 feudal lords.
Basically, no-one appears to fucking recall what technocracy was originally about, and you get these AnCap morons, Communist retards, and general right-wing shitbags who think they fucking know anything about it at all because they read the garbagepedia article about it.
/pol/ is about the last possible place I can imagine any productive technocratic discourse taking place, as this is a website full of generally uneducated and extremist idiots who can't even properly read an academic paper without their moronic ideologies getting in the way of being a rational, logical human being.
I commend the effort of attempting a technocracy thread OP, but frankly it's pointless on /pol/ and even if you wanted a heated debate with dipshits about it, I'm doubtful you even understand it well enough yourself to try, as evidenced by posting that Venus Project/Zeitgeist/RBE stupidity in your image.
>>33163330 >You are actually discrediting an entire project based off of your own art critique?
Yes. Good for me. The so called "Venus Project" is just one old man that draws pretty pictures. That's it. That's all there is of the "Project".
>Hitler may very well have drawn in his own little people, but a people that submitted to his vision of them too.
The difference is that Hitler was the greatest politician of all time. He understood human nature.
Your old man doesn't even believe that human nature exists. He can't even lead hippies that are exactly like him. The guy that made the "Zeitgeist" videos split and now denounces him. He's leading Jack and shit. And Jack left town.
>Also that picture is in serious need of quotation marks around every utterance of 'communism'
You are the typical communist. You prove the picture 100% correct.
Typical communist hypocrite: The only real communist country is the one that I will rule.
>>33163912 Planned cities always prove to be efficient and sustainable in the longterm. Chaotic development of any city is a mayor's nightmare, starting with Rome's random urban slums before planning kicked in again, and finishing with today's favelas in Brazil.
Pic related is how a libertarian paradise looks like, untouched, unmanaged. A city left all by itself at the mercy of chance
>>33164320 >>33164154 Hmm... I'm sure you'll see this as an Ad Hom, but just being truthful. If you came up to me in real life and said all of the things you're saying here, I'd assume you were a genuinely autistic millennial who spends too much time on the internet.
I'm not sure how you can utilize this information to stop doing...whatever it is you're doing...but maybe try to learn how to communicate without memes, self promotion, and so much arrogance. Good luck with your arrogant blog posts and whatever, anyway.
Socialism can't be technocratic because a technocratic goverment requires systems to avoid corruption and ineficency.
Socialism is pretty weak to corruption, because it destroys the material economy so to grow and prosper you need to create a net of favours and influences, based on human trust that go beyond the control of the system.
And its inefficient because it need bureocracy at absurd and bestial levels to even try to keep free will under control. Failing at bringin an effective bureocracy and a control to human behaviour.
So, please, leave while you can and go to venus project or something.
>>33164414 There's really no point discussing anything with you, since your massive infallibility complex is getting in the way of that.
Also communism never existed in anything but theory. You'd understand that if you took a step back to look at the greater picture. Hitler understand human nature, but not in some benevolent manner, only to exploit those he'd amass. Same went for Capitalism and the exact same goes for 'Communism', a pretty package dangled at the end of line while those who run whichever flavour of shit-show hold the yoke.
>>33165106 >Doesn't change the fact you're an idiot, and I'd frankly rather be whatever your internet fantasies say I am than be someone like you on /pol/ Well, I'm glad that you do acknowledge that you're autistic, anne frankly I think the massive projection and over generalization to really prove that you are autistic was redundant, but thanks for proving your autism beyond a reasonable doubt.
And the difference between China and the west is the Chinese will *actually* fucking BUILD it. Westerners just make pretty 3D renders of planned cities, and they never fucking come to fruition because >muh freidumbs!
>>33166335 >shown that the only important aspect of this thread for you was to come and insult someone you disagreed with Welcome to the internet, I guess we can deduce from that statement that you're not one of the intelligent type of autists. >Listen, I'm not your abusive, incompetent, or absentee daddy. You had no reason to attempt to insult me generalizations, check projection, check blind fire insults, check >even if I were actually autistic There's no doubt anymore, you don't need to say it in a way that vaguely hints that you might not be autistic.
>generalizations, accurate >projection, non-existent >blind fire insults, on point
Y'know, I've never met such an educated psychology professional on /pol/ such as yourself. Can I take this time to ask you about this case of PTSD I got from fucking your father's ass and getting my dick shit on when he lost bowel control during orgasm while calling your name?
>>33166852 >>generalizations, accurate >>projection, non-existent >>blind fire insults, on point It's very common for autists to believe their delusions to be true, as such I will no longer attempt to point out that you are generalizing and projecting, and will merely laugh internally at your glaring autism.
>Sarcastic rant filled with curse words strung together so badly and lengthy that you'd imagine it was a Dane Cook joke
So you *can* detect sarcasm? Excellent, I'm glad I could help you out.
So what's you're next move, genius.
So far you've accomplished making the whole board aware that THERE'S AN AUTISTIC PERSON ON THE INTERNET and that you're a colossal fucking goon that's incapable of deviation from the sophomoric debate handbook for faggots.
>>33167286 >Anything else you'd like to add? I'm still just driving home the one concrete fact, that you have debilitating autism. What I am hoping to achieve from relentlessly proving this point is that you'll, hopefully, stop shitting up my board with your autistic rants about superiority and go back to reddit.
>>33167128 All it would take is one cursory glance at dwindling and depleting resources from the so-called "technocrat" to see that this is not the case.
>b-but muh animes are now freee, marxists.org said we could all just get our things from a shed in the city and return them later!
Go away. The fact that it's summer, you have communist flag on and you've here posting about the fucking Venus Project of all things (indicating that you've just watched Zeitgeist), shows that you are not only completely ignorant on any topic from economics to resources to science and engineering, but that you are also 16.
>>33167417 Go away. The fact that it's summer, you have communist flag on and you've here posting about the fucking Venus Project of all things (indicating that you've just watched Zeitgeist), shows that you are not only completely ignorant on any topic from economics to resources to science and engineering, but that you are also 16. #ThirdDegreeBurns
>>33167507 It doesn't matter. If you look up the definition of what "scarce" is in the economical sense you'll realise all of our basics can be made without hardwork. That being said, not only did we achieve post-scarcity, but any other "scarce" thing is an artifficial creation of the markets maintained for the purpose of giving something bigger worth.
Remove the markets, and you'll actually see the post-scarce world we live in today
This is a ubiquitous fallacy among you capitalist retards. There is nothing at all prohibiting you from bartering the products of your hobbies and interests with others in a resource based economy or an Energy Accounting economy.
The removal of markets pertains to the elimination of the profit motive in providing necessary goods and services that are essential for a healthy, pleasurable, leisurely lifestyle for everyone.
>only viable option to solve global warming is to curb emissions and implement robust carbon sequestration >not even real
>only way to solve the drug war crisis is to move away from prohibition/incarceration and into awareness/education and treatment >not even real
>only way to ensure everyone is able to access medical services and lead healthy and productive lives is to implement a social healthcare system and increase nutrition and lifestyle education >not even real
>anon having a brain and making a worthwhile post >not even real
No of course not, because in a technocratic economy an individual enterprise expanding operations to meet a social need is fucking stupid.
If you reached a point where your production methods were more efficient or produced better quality than the technocratically managed productive forces, you would BE a technocrat implementing your processes for the benefit of everyone.
But go on, keep thinking like a fucking dumbass entrepreneur with dreams of being better than your peers because you MADE IT BIG FAGGOT, YOU MADE IT SO FUCKING!
>>33161207 >Socialism No thanks >'But guys, we just havent tried my very specific brand of socialism' So you want to risk your entire nation just in case it works, on the off chance that it might be even stable No
>>33169114 >So you want to risk your entire nation just in case it works If our nation ever banded together to elect "That one guy from /pol/" to figure out a system to save it...then...it was already doomed.
>>33161207 How the fuck does he expect this city to work without spending 75% of its GDP on maintenance? Even retards know you don't put large amounts of buildings and tree's near each other. The whole place is swarming with tree's and absolutely nothing else... here's a protip: The other shit you find in forests is why it works. The land in this picture would be dead within a few years worked like this. He wants perfectly blue lakes but they have fucking islands in them. Either its going to be still water and totally overrun by water plants or its going to be running and gradually wear down the islands, probably spilling out on to the roads too.
Either this is a billion $ project that needs money injecting every year to run or it will collapse into an African tier shithole (Or rather just a normal city) within a decade. 2/10 barely thought this through, I suspect he didn't even consider where he would get that much flat land without bulldozing a mountain.
People's talents and achievements in a technocracy elevate them to the technocratic class to follow their passions in scientific, social, engineering, etc. accomplishments.
The difference is, in a technocracy the technocrats aren't petty little dipshits like yourself who expects to be treated like royalty because you invented a fucking gizmo that everyone wants or because you were born lucky and bought up all the good real estate before anyone else had a chance or other completely meaningless notions of social worth.
Man, why can't architects put gargoyles and arches and art like that on skyscrapers today? It's just steel, glass and maybe some shapeless piece of shit sculpture in front of it meant to symbolize "harmony" or some shit.
>implying anyone involved in STEM in capitalist academia are anything like a technocrat
So, you think a voluntary class of experts who dedicate their labor to civil service because they are passionate about scientific and social progress are comparable to a bunch of fucking debt ridden children who chose STEM because of muh career prospects?
>>33166242 >The "poor" aren't thrown into concentration camps to starve to death. Instead the taxpayers pay for their iphones and $200 Nike Air Jordans. I just wanted to have a good day but you had to ruin it for me.
Oh look it's this thread again. "HOW GREAT WOULD IT BE TO HAVE CENTRAL PLANNING RULED BY A GROUP OF ALL POWERFUL MEN /pol/"
The only reason why any of you support these ideas is because you do so with the premise of YOU being on top and YOU making all the planning. You blockheads don't think of anyone else but yourselves, yet you speak as if you're doing this for the good of other people that you have no business imposing your ideology upon.
>>33163938 >I am very likely the only true technocrat on reddit >Technocrat >Only "true technocrat" >on reddit
Love these threads though. every persons utopia reflects so much about their own fears about the world around them, it's the ultimate thread to witness projection.
Look at this shit:
>So, you think a voluntary class of experts who dedicate their labor to civil service because they are passionate about scientific and social progress are comparable to a bunch of fucking debt ridden children who chose STEM because of muh career prospects?
This nigga thinks that a few hours of looking shit up on the internet would make him a better technocrat than people with actual education and skills because muh dedication to science. Qualifications: Doesn't into skool cuz of dets, also dedikated 2 sciences n shit.
>>33169962 >people who actually study their field.
Yes, these would be the people who manage the productive forces in that field you fucking cunt lipped faggot.
Read my posts again since you're so fucking stupid. These debt-ridden children are in no way comparable to experts who are removed of the profit motive and having to suck capitalist cock for lab funding.
See, the fact is, you fucking retards DON'T actually understand academia or the economic and social pressures that fuck up actual progress.
You really have no goddamn idea, but you think you do.
>>33169792 lel, Venus Project is actually a fringe UN technocratic communist trap. Jack Fresco is a self proclaimed inventor who has invented nothing, the massive bureaucracy of the UN world government apparatus greases his wheels as he pitches totalitarian dictatorships to x,y and z for the elite.
Utopia might be possible, but you are nuts if you think someone else is going to build it for you. Even organized religion wouldn't attempt to push that bullshit, they stick to rewards in the afterlife.
I didn't say what you read though, see how that works, dumbass?
You're a fucking idiot and misconstrued that what I was saying is that technocrats are some other class of people than trained experts in any given field.
No, you dumb fucking nigger. What I actually said, in plain fucking English, is that a bunch of desperate academics who have to suck capitalist cock their whole lives just to get a little funding for their pet projects is in no way comparable to a class of educated experts that are more than just debt ridden grant slaves to government contracts and industry biases.
>>33170389 >Jack Fresco is a self proclaimed inventor who has invented nothing
The best thing about it is his house. For someone who claims to be an inventor and architect of the future of humanity it is hilarious. It's a fucking tiny dome for no reason with an ageing CRT tv and outside he has a small veg garden with 0 forms of technology installed to do anything like irrigation, let alone this fantasy where it's all produced while he sits on his ass and defrauds communists or touches boys or whatever he does when he isn't suffering autism in blender.
>Fuck you're a bunch of goddamn retards /pol/ If a group of people who think you're retarded makes everyone retarded, then you must really feel like a genius in a world of autists lol.
I don't envy you, buddy. I hope some day someone realizes your "genius" and fully understands all of your "amazing" ideas, but as of now maybe you should learn to conclude that when the majority thinks you're the idiot....you're probably the idiot.
Ok anon, use your pathetic excuse for a collection of neurons and synapses and tell me what you imagine in your shitbrain results in people becoming experts and how they would go about accomplishing that.
The product of your pathetic attempt at cognitive effort is pretty likely to come up with something resembling what happens when a layman wants to become an expert in any given thing.
Congratulations, you may have formed a new synaptic connection, bringing your grand total up to about 5.
You might be able to do simple arithmetic soon. I'm so exited for you, anon.
>>33170770 So you can't answer basic questions without getting sand in your vagina (lol remember when you said "in a technocracy the technocrats aren't petty little dipshits like yourself") yet believe you have the workings of a new system for humanity?
>>33161207 This thread is what you get when you need to start up a thread on technocracy / new socioeconomic concepts with TVP and a communism flag.
Why don't you start with the concept of an RBE or Buckminster Fuller's world game ? TVP made some good starts with the basic(!) idea it but failed with anything beyond it, TZM and P2PF have taken it from there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhSgCsD_x8
He's right. Everything about or related to zeitgeist and venus project is moronic. They wear scientific makeup and pay lipservice to scientific principles and then ignore everything scientific that conflicts with their dumbass worldview.
>>33171455 First of all TZM and Venus Project aren't the same thing at all. Then name "everything scientific" that conflicts with their worldview instead of shitposting. Also TZM isn't a view as static as you make it out to be, and I'm pretty sure you haven't even read into the orientation book which roughly outlines it.
The Future of Socialism is a Libertarian one. Chomskysque but not exactly as Chomsky described it. The state facilitating develoment and progress. Not controlling development outright nor letting private interests outweigh the greater good.
I guess we should go all the way back to Zeitgeists origins and how pretty much everything that's ever come out of Peter Joseph's mouth has been pure and utter bullshit.
I hate to push fallacy of composition, but TZM is essentially Joseph capitalizing on the pent up rage of all his retarded followers who sipped up his conspiritard cum from Zeitgeist: The Movie. I'm not addressing any particular feature of TZM so I'm not winning an argument here, but I AM pointing out why the argument isn't really even worthwhile to engage in.
And going along with pointing out logical fallacies, asking me to refute which parts of TZM are lacking scientific validity is essentially asking me to prove a negative. There is nothing scientific in TZM. It is all a bunch of popsci bullshit with a fancy Apple iPod shell slapped on.
>>33171867 Maybe post some further explanation of how that could come about and so on ?! >>33172246 "is propaganda" do you even know what propaganda is besides out of movies ? And their version of an RBE is the economic model. Or did you mean a realized economic model ? For the latter: it's still developing.
Got to go off now.
>>33172174 >how pretty much everything that's ever come out of Peter Joseph's mouth has been pure and utter bullshit. Good point!
>TZM is essentially Joseph capitalizing on the pent up rage of all his retarded followers who sipped up his conspiritard cum from Zeitgeist: The Movie You're still not addressing the actual content of it. Instead you're just bitching about the way many get into contact with the movement. >so I'm not winning an argument here Indeed, so why even post it ? Also you could apply this to most movements & views in some way as in critizing the way newfag kiddies get to it. >but I AM pointing out why the argument isn't really even worthwhile to engage in Just by saying so you aren't doing it. Why isn't the argument even worthwhile to begin with besides your assumption that you don't have to because of what you think of the "movement's origin" ?
>And going along with pointing out logical fallacies Where did you start with that ?
>There is nothing scientific in TZM. It's not a theory on quantum gravity or on origin of species. It's a view that values scientific validity, the use of technology and sustainability - especially through the formerly named etc.
Good job quibbling around an actual worthwhile response.
>>33161207 a RBE is a neat idea, except it's NOT socialism according to it's founder. Anyways, it's logically and theoretically applicable but it needs a response from the population and that response is pretty much non-attainable without real need in the mind of the people they need to feel the failure of their system first, and that's pretty much what is holding the majority of the people to take this seriously, i am obviously not talking about the political groups and so on, those just need to inform themselves more.
>>33173240 I was speaking about TZM's RBE. TVP's approach is ridicolous beyond the most basic idea - mainly because(!) they are way too much into the details and apparently think in terms of a sudden "revolution" to a detailish pre-planned "utopia" that would be "possible right now if we just wanted to". For better understanding of what I mean here: do you think someone planned capitalism in detail and all we did back then was saying "hey that looks good" and realized it? But again I got to go off.
>>33173929 OK. i have to explain this. >using technology this implies that there are certain people with agendas controlling shit, the approach is purely technical no opinion or political views imposed because our problems aren't political they are technical, and you know of course technicians don't vote for a way of designing or repairing shit they use the known experimental data.
>>33174343 >counter argument But i think it was kinda my bad, the post was oversimplified, and that's because i wont write down all the sides that might concern you anon. but TZM have an extensive orientation that pretty much covers most of the views, so if you really want a respectfully mature material go read.
China is fucking insane when it comes to actually building things. Over the last years that I've been to China on business trips they've added subway systems to cities in which I had to take a shitty bus without air conditioning just 5 years prior. Places like Zhengzhou are actually added a lot more green spaces to their cities because they know they fucked up in the past (see Zhengzhou Greenland Plaza).
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