You're not supposed to survive on minimum wage. The jobs that pay minimum wage are for fucking YOUNG TEENAGERS who are just starting to work. Those jobs are so you can get job experience and MOVE THE FUCK ON TO A BETTER JOB! You're not supposed to stay at a minimum wage job. It's sole purpose is to give you job experience and some spending cash.
Technology is also supposed to make it so that people have to work less, and yet all we see is the push for people (women) to work more. Women got their liberation, they're out into the workforce, and now there aren't enough jobs to go around, meaning that so many people are taking the menial minimum wage jobs away from teens.
>to get a better job need a degree
>100k in debt
>walton heirs worth as much as 185 million americans put together
>But it;s the poor people fucking this country over right
>minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation
You're the same faggot who would've called people lazy for not wanting a 7 day work week 100 years ago. If you're blaming the poor, you;re probably being manipulated by the rich.
Also a false choice, raising the minimum wage, wouldn't make me want to work a shitty job the rest of my life, all it would do is make it so I could acutally afford to survive without 3 fucking jobs.
If you raise the minimum wage, sure some people will benefit from it, but a lot will suffer. Imagine if you will a small business. It has 5 employees making minimum wage. Now that minimum wage goes up and the small business can not afford to keep all 5 people. They need to fire 2 people. 2 people just lost their jobs. But those other 3 are better off right? Is it worth it?
Big businesses like McDonalds will be fine but the smaller businesses may suffer.
lol no. The minimum wage is for the lower classes, the poorly educated, the idiotic, the retarded, the foolish etc by no means is it for just teenagers and you are severely out of step with society to say so.
Small business is already fucked, so many laws and taxes are already screwing them over, it could be the final nail in the coffin, but most employers are big business nowadays anyway. Also, small business will find away, I worked for a small business for a bit, and they;d probably keep certain emplyees and jsut pay under the table.
>Small business is already fucked, so many laws and taxes are already screwing them over,
Are you an American? Because trust me, no matter how bad it is for you guys: it's worse in Europe. Starting your own business is a fucking nightmare. T-thanks EU!
>oversaturated the job market with workers
>can't possibly be because there is no industry in this country anymore due to excessive regulations and taxes, there's just too many people working!
I'd agree with you. However most people have to rely on minimum wage jobs now because that's all they can get. You can't simply get up and "move onto a better job" like that anymore. Just look at the age range of the people in minimum wage jobs, it goes from teenagers right through to 40+ because unfortunately, these jobs ARE our careers now
this , they just need to move into shacks down by the river . think if they how zero cost for housing .
The luddites were right, 47% of work in the US is at a severe risk of automation in the next couple of decades, we're witnessing the final death cries of capitalism. I wouldn't worry about old people working minimum wage jobs, because soon enough there won't be any jobs.
I don't disagree.
People complain about there being "no better jobs", to go on to, when there absolutely are. Maybe you're not a good worker or not willing to do the extra things that get you noticed in a company. Another thing could be you're too naive to understand "office politics" or unwilling to.
Not that's anything wrong with not wanting or being able to do these things, but you can't then expect to get a better paying job.
People who are motivated to do better in life almost without exception do. Life rewards winners, most people aren't even trying, let alone winning.
Start your own business if you can't be fucked with all that. You'll probably be happier.
Where are all the jobs available for the millions of people at there in their 20s and 30s who want to make more than $10 an hour? What about the unemployed who can't even find a minimum wage job? That's where your statement falls apart.
Well, sasha grey is a very well known pornstar, and according to pornhub, anal is one of the top 10 most searched keywords. So with this you can expect her anal cavity to be a bit bigger than the average one, specially since she likes buttplugs so much
The luddites were WRONG. Automation is good.
They're only RIGHT in so far as the powers that be will insist on maintaining the current system of mandatory jobs long after it's obsolete (which is right around now in the western world). Automation is only bad when you're expected to work anyway, when everything you need to live is made by a handful of people.
Ebola-chan is going to be the Lasting Conclusion of the Unemployment Quandry. No need to end capitalism because of structural unemployment when half of the world workforce is dead of Ebola :D:D:D
A bag of rice and a tin shack =/= living.
If you put people into those conditions en masse in an industrialized country with a large middle-class, who observably can afford commodities that these people couldn't even dream of, then they would literally rise up and eat the rich.
So please do, I'll be there with my knife and fork.
>yfw mcdicks announced they're rolling out a "technological game changer" at the start of 2015
>Appleby's is replacing waiters with tablets
Sooner than you think
Wages are based on supply. If minimum wage employees all move to different positions wages will fall in those industries. The supply of teenage labour can't fill all positions in specific sectors.
That's because the government pays for all their shit, while poor workers actually ahve to pay for our own shit, it's almost better to just be a bum if your already on the bottom of the totem pole, but some of us have more respect for ourselves that that.
You seem to ignore the fact that people HAVE to rely on these jobs now. I work in a retail store with people who used to be well paid, but now have to work in this shit hole.
You think we like working in these shit jobs? You think we're just settling for this shit and just want someone to blame? I work my arse off in my job, I probably do more shit than all the people in my job combined, that doesn't change the fact that the next rung of the ladder is being pulled further away from me
Boo hoo we don't live in a perfect world.
There are not enough high-paying positions on earth for even 10% of the global population.
>there absolutely are
Based on what? Your personal experience? Anecdotal evidence is bullshit bro.
If you're going into debt to survive, then you can't survive on your income. This is how poor people stay poor, they have to go into debt to afford essentials, and so they pay more for essentials than middle class people. This is why welfare is almost enough to survive, and no more; not to 'encourage' people to get work, they already want work, but they make sure they borrow money.
>better to be a bum
Then go be a bum. No it's not better to be a bum, you fucking dishonest liberals just won't admit how good you have it living on minimum wage because someone else can live better than you.
>Boo hoo we don't live in a perfect world.
Some people think it's possible to do better than we are right now.
Boo hoo we don't live in a perfect world also applies if your house is robbed. Are you saying you'd just ignore it if it did happen?
>can't open shop before government designated time
>doesn't matter if it's a whore crack house bar for gay pedophiles or a quaint flower store
>can't stay open after government designated time
God bless the queen
God bless ameriga
You don't need to go into debt to "survive". See the lies just keep coming and coming. You don't need to go into debt unless you want muh iphone, muh flatscreen, muh restaurants, muh what everyone else has
I live in a gethoo neighborhood, the bums here literally collect welfare money, pool it together, then go to beg for food, so they can spend all the government cheese on drugs. Your right, that's how I should live my life.
Bitch fucking please, when was the last time you worked at a "small" business? I have worked at three "Mom & Pop" shops, and they were ALL owned by some of the richest fucks I have ever seen. I quit my last job because the guy refused to give me a raise from fucking minimum after working there year, having never missed a fucking day and constantly covering shifts for people. I saw the numbers too and knew for fact this dude was literally making hundreds upon thousands while we were making Jack shit.
If you didn't like your job you'd get a new one. If there are no "good" jobs in your area you'd move to find a "good" job. It's not my fault you've settled for a minimum wage job in your hometown.
It will, shitlick. Get your head out of your ass and work harder and work more hours and maybe you'll get one yourself. Ever notice how in movies there is a trope about the husband who's always knee deep in work and barely has time for his kids and wife? that is EVERY successful person, because it's only by busting your hump can you fucking make something of yourself. Name one person, with citations, that wasn't born from money who got from poor schlub to moderately successful by just being average. I dare you.
Faggot, I don't have an iphone, or any phone, and alreaddy buy all my clothes from a thrift shop, You guys honestly expect people to live like their from the 1500's rather than just have the minimum wage keep up with inflation. people should not have to make such sacrifices just to fuckign scrape by.
Yeah but OP isn't admonishing the system of house robbing because robbers don't move on to convenience stores and then banks.
OP is trying to make wealth sound like a vending machine where you insert "hard work" coins and get "wealth" candy. Hard work in, wealth out. It's not even close to that simple.
When you're living paycheck to paycheck you don't have money to move.
To move, you need to at least set aside enough money to get transportation(unless your car can make the trip), get a place to stay(Unless family or friends will let you stay), and then you have to be able to find a job, too.
>people should not have to make such sacrifices just to fuckign scrape by
80% of people will live in poverty in squatter camps and slums.
Have you ever seen pictures of Port-au-Prince in Haiti? The vast majority of the population who are retarded niggers of course live like savages, surviving off of a mixture of Western charity, petty peddling, prostitution and drug-dealing, while the mulatto try to live it up behind massive walls and gates and stay away from the animals outside. Nobody cuts them a welfare check because a) there are too many of them, and b) who likes wasting their money?
That's what will happen in the West too. Just that you will be the nigger.
You might say, "Oh but that could never happen in America, there would be riots." The sun will still rise every morning anyway. Sure there will be some political instability, but for the most part the rich will stay rich and well-off. When civil war and bullshit happens, mostly it will be the animals killing each other (as always). The people with money are safe behind massive gates and walls with their own hired goons and probably a massive drone/robot army too.
The mob of impoverished poor people won't be able to successfully revolt because IRL robocop or Deathlok will murder them all.
So what if there are more people than there are higher paying positions? Not everyone on 10 man team can become general managers because that would require 10 or less more outlets of that business.
Also, what is the incentive to pay an employee more when you can just pay them the minimum? This has lead to a large influx of minimum wage jobs because a smart business owner will not pay more than what he is required.
You are completely ignoring the fact that the supply of jobs is decreasing while the supply of labor is increasing.
No it wont, you've never worked tat these places, my moms boyfriend worked at a factory for 30 years, they fired him,and hired him back 6 months later just so they could pay him entry level wages again.
>Hard work in, wealth out. It's not even close to that simple.
People believe this because it's what the most successful people in society say is happening. It's how almost every wealthy person says they made their fortunes.
The luddites were wrong only in the short to mid term, in the first few technological revolutions the jobs destroyed by emerging tech were replaced by jobs in separate sectors. They were right in the long term, this new technological revolution is destroying jobs faster than they are being replaced.
The powers that be will never let the system collapse without a fight, this actual revolution is going to be the bloodiest event in modern history.
>You are completely ignoring the fact that the supply of jobs is decreasing while the supply of labor is increasing.
But much unemployment is only 6% now
If you can't find a job you're just in the wrong part of the country
Work in oil industry!
Or do a trade
Why aren't you an engineer
>these are the answers you get if you question the current economic problem
So you're on minimum wage, you're paying off a college loan, and you need a car and an apartment close to your work or you'll be unemployed.
Saving a few thousand dollars is something lower middle class people do with some effort, it's not something poor people can do.
Most minimum wage jobs don't employ someone for 40 hours.They usually keep it under 30 to keep costs down so they don't have to pay for healthcare.
Fuckin libs-- making the poor even more poor
>A low rate of inflation is necessary for a healthy economy.
>complain about minimum wage not keeping up
It it worked then it would work without you having to artificially fuck with what employers can pay their employees. It doesn't work, it never did and never will.
>Fuckin libs-- making the poor even more poor
As part of a program also supported by conservatives.
When is the last time you heard a conservative say they wanted to get rid of all taxes on poor people?
Hi, son of a corporate whore here. Dad's ultra-fucking-skilled at his job. He has made every consulting firm he has worked for in the past 20 years millions of dollars, EACH.
They STILL let him go and hire a vastly inferior immigrant because the people at the top don't give a fuck about workers and customers, only profits.
What isn't working? Inflation or minimum wage?
minimum wage is set by government legislation, inflation is determined by economic activity. Although it's possible for minimum wage to keep up with inflation, it's not a sign of trouble that it's not.
One is extremely dangerous and basically forces you to move to fucking Midland' TX; literally the shittiest place in America.
The other two require schooling which requires money.
>But much unemployment is only 6% now
And the the workforce is smaller than it has been in decades, despite population growth.
As a percentage of the population, less people are working than ever before.
The unemployment rate is only dropping because the universe of jobs is shrinking faster.
Your country produced a lot of plebs. Now find jobs to them they can survive on. Or have your throat rightfully cut when the revolution comes.
Nothing sader than clueless despots.
Deflation is bad.
If you have debt, that debt gets bigger. When you have deflation, it also depresses wages, so existing debt continues to get worse and worse to pay off. Further, deflation shows a lack of growth, kills your currency on the world stage, and makes importing OR exporting exponentially harder.
Why do Americans think being poor and on welfare is something that is so pleasant that people who are on it are actually being spoiled, and so we have to make things EVEN HARDER on them; and yet they never voluntarily go into that situation to take advantage of it?
>paying off a college loan
Why did you go to college if you're only making minimum wage?
>need a car and apartment close to work
If your housing is close to work you don't need a car. Get a $100 bicycle instead.
underrated post. dude knows what's up.
Owners of "small" businesses know that you use others to make you rich. that's the whole point of owning a business. paying people a pittance to make you rich. a small business may be technically a small business by employee amounts but the financial cutoff for "small" is outrageously high.
>Why did you go to college if you're only making minimum wage?
Because I (this hypothetical person we're talking about) was told by everyone I ever met up to the age of eighteen that I should go and study at college, that it would be worth the investment many times over.
>If your housing is close to work you don't need a car. Get a $100 bicycle instead.
There are minimum wage jobs that require you to have a car. A lot of places demand it, so you never have any excuse for being late or absent.
>Start your own business.
Go on. Tell us how you did it, starting from a position of having a useless degree, a few tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and a couple of minimum wage jobs.
The federal Reserve is not a legislative body. It's monetary policy is discretionary.
Further more, the federal Reserve does not set the inflation rate, it can only manipulate the inflation rate through their monetary policy.
No law sets the inflation rate, but laws set the minimum wage
>Fuckin libs-- making the poor even more poor
>make poor people poorer
>make sure the poor stay poor and barely alive
>secure voters for life with promises of "benefits"
>all at the expensive of people worked hard to make a better life for themselves
I love politics
My time AT WORK isn't work that much. My time when not at work is worth whatever I choose to do with it. If I choose to spend four hours a day on public transport, that's four hours I'm not spending training for a better job.
>Work at local chain bakery
>Boss refuses to give us benefits
>Buys a "company" 3D printer that only he and his cousin can use a New salt water aquarium because his wife wouldn't let him "install one that big at home."
Fuck Hey Cupcake and fuck you Frank.>>37685390
And what law is that?
besides, increasing the money supply won't increase inflation unless people spend it and output isn't increasing. If new money is sitting in banks, it doesn't change a thing. That's why quantitative easing isn't sending us into hyperinflation
How can I expect to get a job flipping burgers when I don't even have my associate certificate in heated meat-body rotational dynamics?
Every other applicant has one. How can I compete?
>four hours on public transport
Holy shit dude live closer to work. If you have to take 2 trains and a bus to get to work you live too far away. Try finding a place that is a maximum of 5 miles away.
>>Because I (this hypothetical person we're talking about) was told by everyone I ever met up to the age of eighteen that I should go and study at college, that it would be worth the investment many times over.
And you believed them?
You colossal retard.
Absolutely. I believe everyone who knows anything about business should be striving to take advantage of capitalism. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to get into business, given that business it the whole driving force behind any economy.
If I can scrape together a massive effort and risk, but make that risk for potential incredible reward, why the fuck wouldn't I? I can just go bankrupt or kill myself if I fail horribly anyways.
It's only useless after the fact, in high school, everyone is telling you to get it.
> If you were spending 4 hours a day training for a better job you wouldn't be making minimum wage.
I don't even. How do you think people get OUT of minimum wage jobs?
so you might loose everything you have
not even talking about the rich folk here, if you are middle class and fail at least you can move to your parents and become a neet
if you are poor and fail you will literally starve to death
and not even talking about the other hardships, that poor people will find difficulty to get captical or get a loan etc
to give le start your own le business advice to poor is retarded basically economical canon fodding.
Shit man I have been to interviews where they demanded to see my license AND my car. My dad refuses to believe the car thing, actually had the audacity to tell me that they wouldn't do that.>>37685450
>being told for 18 years of your life to major in what you want
Hell, I didn't even major in a totally useless degree and I can't find fulltime work
There's a huge disconnect between the working world and the academic world
I don't even live in America, but in a place where people AREN'T expected to have cars, and it's happened to me.
>okay, I DID borrow my dads car to make it look like I was a real person
That just provides oversight for the federal Reserve, it even mentions the discretionary nature of the federal Reserve. That law does not set an inflation rate, because no law can. You might as well claim there's a law which sets the unemployment rate too
I work a white collar job for $12/hr and they've made everyone part time to deal with providing benefits
I almost got an interview for a full time job, but the interview time didn't work for me and they refused to push it back or to another time
>oh that time doesn't work...well good luck with the job hunt
Word for word
How the fuck is that greed? Good performance after 1 year is supposed to get a raise. That has been standard practice for a long, long time. He'll I have worked at places that gave raises every six and eight months.
I come from Ireland, my family history was basically one room for children and one room for parents for the last two hundred years, up until my generation, when it was one room for the sons, one for the daughters, and one for the parents.
What position is that? Posting on 4chan about how useless college is?
The only difference between you and them is that you have no chance of earning more than 35k/year and they do.
Yet the real unemployment rate is above 12%. People are giving up on trying to find jobs.
Isn't that just theoretical? If there is a large supply of labor, what stops a business from paying its employees the least it can?
I'm talking about unskilled labor of course.
I'm bitching that it's not possible to survive on minimum wage, not about my own situation.
I have one friend who got a degree in Chemistry, and is currently doing very well indeed. The rest have a mix of English, History, Politics, and Economics (different names for different specific ones, I don't have them off the top of my head), who have ended up between unemployed, endless interning, and entry level jobs in things other than their degree.
>English, History, Politics, and Economics
Well no fucking shit they're broke!
You can live at home until you get some sort of specialized training to get a real job. Fuck your greed.
>If there is a large supply of labor, what stops a business from paying its employees the least it can?
The only thing that can stop a business from doing this is to make unemployment survivable. If you can just quit any job that has poor conditions or low wages, then you don't need things like minimum wage, or even much in the way of regulations, the market will take care of it.
The law authorizes the Federal Reserve to set the interest rate. Therefore, the law is that the interest rate is whatever the Federal Reserve says it is.
It does not have to be a codified number to be law.
>Well no fucking shit they're broke!
These are degrees that they were assured by everyone prior to college would be guaranteed jobs after college. Their mistake was believing the people whose job it was to give them good advice.
> Fuck your greed.
Which greed is that?
Okay, so my choices are:
Don't go to college to earn a degree and be a minimum wage slave colossal retard.
Go to college and get in debt and be a colossal retard.
Or of course, the lottery option
Be born rich and ACTUALLY be a colossal retard cause school is for poor people
While reading this thread there's a go army.com commercial on.
That's also a viable option. Join the army for a bit. They'll pay for your education and you'll get work skills while in the army. Why the fuck not?
Exactly. When we went from sailing ships to the coal engine, did we still emply 200 people to pretend to row the boat? No you need a guy shoveling coal, a captain to guide the ship and an engineer to make sure things run smoothly. But we still have to abide by ancient baby boomers and their nearly as ignorant kins' thought process that everyone needs to work 40-50+ hours a week to make endsmeat. We live in a society of surplus, but not labor. There's lots to do but the whole structure needs to be reworked. Not everyone needs to go to college, not everyone needs to slave away., but there's needs to be rewards and motivation for hard/innovative work.
The greed that you, with zero training, deserve anything more than the bare minimum. You do not deserve anything for simply existing. I don't know what retard told them English or Politics would get a job, but they're retards as well for listening to them.
Get a STEM degree and you'll always have a job. There are jobs everywhere just not for liberal art faggots.
The employees themselves. When we're talking about unskilled labor, we're talking about workers who provide a marginal product of labor less than or equal to the minimum wage. If they increase their marginal product of labor (working harder, learning a skill, etc), the employer can choose to increase the pay, or the employer can choose to risk losing the employee. Since the employee has a higher MPL than the other unskilled workers, the employer does not want to lose that employee. This is how promotions happen. Business owners should not be required to pay more than an employee is worth, but if they choose to pay less than what the employee is worth, the employee will not work to his full potential, if at all.
Why would you work retail? You can make so much money in other places you lazy ass.
Farms ALWAYS need people, I know because I work on one.
Sure it's 18 hour days but I make $1500 a week.
Work on a railroad, do roadwork.
There are more cars than ever and more things to break then ever. Be an automotive apprentice.
Oh wait, your lazy and entitled? Well then fuck off.
>deserve anything more than the bare minimum.
I don't understand. Surely that depends on the kind of job I'm doing. If I'm making fifty dollars worth of stuff, does it matter if I have qualifications or not?
>Get a STEM degree and you'll always have a job.
Promise? If I get one and don't get a job, I can always just discharge the debt, right?
>Get a STEM degree and you'll always have a job.
In the US only 55% of stem degree holders find employment
The field has been dumped into over the past 4 years
Certain ones are still pretty gud though and you are ahead of most other grads....but it's no longer guarenteed
This. Hell, even if you're not going for job experience, most minimum wage jobs nowadays hire you so you can get promoted and eventually run shit. Mcdonalds doesnt want an army of cashiers, they want an army of managers with experience with people to manage their business for them.
Interest rate =/= inflation rate.
we're talking about the inflation rate. The federal Reserve sets the interest rate to manipulate inflation, but nobody can set a designated inflation rate. Inflation is a natural phenomenon
Nope, you don't deserve shit. It would be nice if your boss paid you more, but why should he? You with no education or training for this job can be easily replaced.
Get yourself some marketable skills, and you'll be fine. Sitting and bitching about it won't help your broke retarded ass.
>Get a STEM degree and you'll always have a job
>You do not deserve anything for simply existing.
In a Western country you damn well do. Do you deserve a lot? No, but you deserve a fair chance and since 2008 that hasn't been true at all.
Why would anyone try to negotiate a better deal, with that attitude?
You can continue to take whatever you are given and be thankful for it, and other people will try to get a better deal for everyone, including you.
The question is how narrow is "in their field"
If a math major ends up working in IT, does it count as his field since it's STEM? Or does it not count as his field since he's not comp sci?
>You do not deserve anything for simply existing
Then why didn't your parents toss you in a trash can when you were 2?
You were nothing but a useless, all-devouring piece of shit that sucked money and time from their lives for the first 3 years of your existence and then probably another 2 decades after that. You were a literal negative on their lives just for existing but you got to make it to adulthood.
So fuck off with your edgemaster Randian bullshit.
If a person can't provide for themselves, barring injury or sickness, that implies they're physically healthy and capable of work.
Apart from the small percent of people who are happy on almost enough to live a normal life, the NEET lifestyle, all of these people are already looking for work.
Check out internet Ayn Rand here. Either this is a well done troll, in which case well done. But if you are sincere, I am thankful dumbfucks like you never gain any lasting political support.
So I take it during the depression 30% of the population deserved to die?
E pluribuis unum doesn't mean anything to you?
I save every single penny I make at my minimum wage job. At this point i'm not sure if i'll be there after the holiday season it's all in the bank. Fuck the economy. I'm keeping my damn money and not spending it.
I went to a community college for my first 2 semesters. It's A LOT cheaper and not nearly as much pressure. You have time to decide if you aren't quite sure yet. Honestly if you're a highschool student and are nervous about college, go to your local community college for your first 2 years. There is NOTHING wrong with community college regardless of what people say. They're just stupid. It'll be a great life decision. You will save a lot of money this way and will really be able to find yourself/your passion.
Not him, but you'd be surprised. Farmers are flushed with cash, they buy the newest shit almost every year just to get rid of it. With the increase in farmland prices, farmers have more than enough equity to afford paying someone 16/hr
Lel. I can negotiate a better deal than you because I have marketable skills and you don't. Why should a business owner be forced to pay you more when you don't contribute as much as me?
>Comparing an infant to an adult worker
I see you've ran out of arguments. Yeah, I couldn't provide for myself but my parents did, and I now assist them because I worked for it. On that note, try not having a kid until you have a job. It's pretty fucking easy.
I made $100 a day on a farm, but I didn't put in that many hours.
That's what you get when you have a population of untrained workers.
I work in retail because I needed a job during college and it was the only thing I could get. Now I'm stuck in it. But of course, you knew everything about me already and that's why you posted you smug fuck
>Major in accounting.
>Big money big 4 firms only want women and minorities.
>Stuck in some crappy accounting clerk position.
Worst thing was that I did work through college as well. It wasn't like I was some book work.
>finishing up bachelors in environmental sciences
>paid internship with local industrial facility with a job lined up for graduating
>industry will give me a 45k a year job to start with, WITH benefits, AND pay for me to get my masters locally too.
>Stick with them, get masters for free, upgrade job to 80k a year in less than 5 years.
environment science jobs are growing, 15-20% change rate depending on state, with 45k-120k pay depending on state you are in and experience
pollution isn't going away, nor are government regulations
get a job that has a sustainable future, dont get a degree in fucking history or art or femnazi studies
>Lel. I can negotiate a better deal than you because I have marketable skills and you don't. Why should a business owner be forced to pay you more when you don't contribute as much as me?
We could contribute the same amount exactly, the amount you're paid is based more on how replaceable you are, and how desperately you need the job, than on how much we contribute.
So how do you explain image related?
A business owner should not be required to pay more than an employee is worth, but shouldn't he be required to pay the amount an employee is worth? Based on what you are saying, the minimum wage should follow productivity and should be raised
Did you take on any extra responsibilities? Or where you just there for a long time? You do more work you deserve more money. You do the same amount of work but you've been there for a while you don't.
Conservatively, you're making 1100/wk on that, and what the fuck's the point when that is 2/3rd of all the hours in a week, and you probably spend the rest sleeping?
Some people don't want to be robots who have to work 12 hours a day just to be able to put money away, and that's not even addressing that there are probably not enough of those jobs for all the people who need them.
Remember when it was an aspiration that someone could work 40 hours a week and still have time to sleep well and spend time NOT WORKING, and still make a living?
You think you deserve to be showered with praise for working 72 hours more a week? You don't. Congrats on sacrificing your entire youth to make money, shit-for-brains. Hopefully a medical complication doesn't arise later in life that sucks out all that money you worked so hard to save up.
See, OP, you're correct, but jobs that don't either require incredibly extensive training and certification or absolutely nothing but a pulse are largely disappearing. The middle-brow job market has been severely eroded. You don't usually "graduate" from a shitty minimum wage job into a managerial position anymore.
You have automation and globalism to blame. You probably realize this, but you just want to fit in with the dumbfuck Austrian connies on /pol/.
Farm workers don't work that much every single day the entire year, some periods i.e. planting and harvest you work more. So you work a lot then, and save that money for when times are more difficult.
Yeah, farm OWNERS, not farm WORKERS. And no, not all farm owners are rolling in it, I know tons of farmers with modest operations and middle class net worths doing the best they can as industrial farms come and destroy their way of life.
Productivity =/= marginal product of labor.
Most increases in productivity are due to technology. This factors into the marginal product of capital.
Yes, an employer should pay an employee what they're worth, but its not as simple as adjusting wages when the mpl changes. There's a measure called the marginal rate of technical substitution, which considers the wage of labor and the rent of capital to determine the ratio of capital to labor to use in order to make a given amount of output.
The amount of output a company produces is what determines profit maximization. A business cannot change its output at will. Changing the wage of workers will change the marginal rate of technical substitution, making additional capital more appealing than additional labor. This is why people say automation is replacing peoples jobs
I worked at a marina getting paid minimum wage "7.25" at the age of 15. I worked with 12 other people. 4 people who just started including me. The rest made $10.00 and above. I had 5 managers. 4 were just managers and their was 1 that oversaw all the managers then I had 1 main boss. The 4 managers made 12.50 to 15.50 a hour and the main manager made around 16-17.00 a hour.
McDonalds pays minimum wage to just starting employees and it slowly increases over time.
>minimum wage is for teenagers.
You would not want a teenager being a manager of a store or a restaurant. Especially if you worked their.
>back to the marina
One of my managers were 17 and attended the same highschool as me. I was talking to his girlfriend and she broke up with him because she thought I was going to date her I didn't. He than told my boss that I was sitting in the bathroom and smoking weed on the job. He than belived him because a manager never lies. I than got introuble and ultimately quit because of the bullshit.
The much-vaunted unemployment percentage is just a bunch of bullshit. How many of those precious jobs are the same 'minimum wage for teenager' positions these shitbag politicians denigrate? What I want to know is how many people have started working jobs that allow them to support themselves or their family, how many people have started working jobs relevant to a field they studied, or jobs in which they have potential for growth. Pushing carts at Walmart is a job, but those people don't make shit.
Lol at thinking any office job is going to think the minimum wage mcdonald's job you held after high school is adequate "job experience."
In fact, why are you even putting that on your resume in the first place?
That's not reassuring. That means the money you are putting away is already posted to be used and can't be saved, resulting in once again, zero social mobility despite all the boot-strapping and sleep-depriving and sweating.
Workers do not deserve to live in survival-mode 24/7, and a rich asshole does not get to be the arbiter of that decision. When that happens, as it has, you start shoving wooden spikes up the rich people's asses.
I never said it payed well... I said they'll pay for your education and you'll get work experience. You get work experience from a minimum wage job but they don't pay for your education... usually. And i'm sure the army pays more than minimum wage.
If you just lost your job, you'll do what ever it takes to keep food on the table. You'll mow a damn lawn, do some manual labor, it doesn't matter. I don't understand where this false sense of entitlement comes from. Especially with people around my age (21). They act like they're too good to do certain jobs like fast food and stuff. They need to get over themselves. You have no reason to feel accomplished and like you deserve anything.
>i'm sure the army pays more than minimum wage.
Not much...its 20k a year
And the military is in a general cutback right now, so it's not the most stable decision to make
The army alone is cutting 100k positions
Why do you people stress out like a bunch of cry babbies?
Nature does wonders, the population is so rich it doesn't spawn so many kids so the fertility rate is down.
In max 30 years the population will significantly shrink and there will be higher demand for jobs
>They act like they're too good to do certain jobs like fast food and stuff.
Maybe we run with different crowds, but I'm in that age range and everyone I know works shitty jobs to make ends meet
Let me break this down for you candy-ass.
When I work more than 65 hours in a week the rest of the hours get banked. So I earn ~$1500 in a week but I only get ~$650 as take-home pay.
If we get rained out for a week I still get my money because I have mad banked hours.
And then when Winter rolls around I have all the free time I could ever want for 5 months because fuck yeah Canadian winters. Throughout the winter I still collect my banked hours as pay.
I also have no worries about medical costs because fuck yeah Canadian healthcare.
So the way I see it I have way more free time than any retail fags plus I love my job and I get to see cool ass machinery.
I'm literally working right now and browsing /pol/ from my Tractor.
I don't do this for praise, I do it for money.
>You're not supposed to survive on minimum wage
True, then again, when the job market is so small/bad you're forced to take a minimum wage(or near minimum wage) job what should that person do?
nigga it don't matter, one year is retarded to not get a raise. OP should have pushed alot earlier so he didnt waste a year of his life there, but i went from 8.50 to 10 in 4 months because i aint no bitch and know my work. but my boss is alright so i guess theres that
Yeah it's very nice. But it's... fuck I forgot 10th grade biology lol the thing where 2 living organisms rely on each other to survive? Mutual living? Something like that. I'm sure someone smarter than me knows what i'm talking about.
But yeah I take care of my mom who has MS and in return I live in the house with her. I need her, she needs me. Win win.
Comparing GDP is so fucking stupid i swear.
yes the soviet block had smaller than the west. Do you know how much leisure time both the worker and middle class had? Protip; look at what is the definition of GDP then get back to me
Oh god there's this guy at my job (I work at Macy's) who's working while in college. Every day it's "Once I get my degree i'm OUT OF HERE!!!" All the older employees already know and laugh about it behind his back. No one has the heart to tell him the truth.
I think that affirmative action is fucking retarded and needs to end. A scenario if you will. Let's say A is Black and Student B is Hispanic. Student A has a 3.8 GPA and Student B has a 3.2 GPA. Why the fuck should Student B get into a college over Student A? They shouldn't. The smartest students should go to the best colleges. All of these quotas are dumb. Just because a school is lacking in Hispanic students doesn't mean that they start rejecting more qualified students because of MUH DIVERSITY! Fuck that. I don't think that college applications should ask race. It shouldn't matter. Let the students high school transcript speak for itself.
You can live off minimum wage. I put myself through community college without financial aid (while slowly saving to transfer to a real University), put a roof over my head, gas in my car, and food in my fridge on 8 bucks an hour in California.
Yeah yeah yeah, "muh anecdotal evidence."
Fact of the matter is though, if you don't have a family and you budget carefully you can live off minimum wage. It's jackoffs that live beyond their means that can't make minimum wage work. I wasn't buying new tvs or expensive electronics or shit. A used book was a luxury. But that's why we have public libraries.
I'm not saying its necessarily easy to do, but minimum wage is certainly doable. And then you work hard and earn credentials which allow you to get a better paying job.
Ambition, self-discipline, a little creative budgeting, and sucking up missing out on weekend bar crawling with your friends for a couple years. It's really not that hard.
Except that saving money is bad for the economy
You're suppose to put those bills in constant circulation on the market, not under a matress hence people not affording things with a minimum wage
>work in retail because I needed a job during college and it was the only thing I could get. Now I'm stuck in it.
Fuck, I know how that is. Been out of school since last December.
It sure is nice knowing you're the lowest of the low. I consider welfare recipients better than people like us, and it just makes me want to weep in the break room when I think about how much I fucked up my life.
>tfw you see that look in your parents eye when they ask you how the job hunt is going
>eventually they just stop asking
>tfw all your siblings are highly successful
It's an awful feeling
I can't believe it hasn't been automated already.
It's depressing to think that so many intelligent people waste their time learning such an artificial system of bullshit when they could be dedicating their time to something else.
So the abject poverty, widespread corruption, institutional and infrastructural breakdown in those countries today is all worth it because some people's grandparents were able to laze off on government payroll?
My mother never really asks because she knows how awful things are in the economy. Father asks, but also knows how shitty everything is, so he's not overly pushy.
The worst part is knowing I paid to be brainwashed like a sucker. I fell into the debt trap and now I'm fucked forever.
>tfw forced to help some fat boomer fuck pick out a coffee machine because he can't figure out how to use google
>tfw fat boomer fuck acts like a big box retail store fuck of cheap merch is some sort of little boutique of knowledgeable sales staff that care about their employer or customers
> Population getting bigger and bigger
> Automation replacing more and more jobs
> Number of jobs needed to be done by humans are getting smaller and smaller
> I-ITS THE G-GO-GOVERNMENTS FAULT G-GUYS!
He's in for a surprised when he graduates lol so many people at my job have said that same thing.
"YOU'LL SEE! YOU'LL ALL SEE! WHEN I GET ME MUH DEGREE I'M GONE! I'LL BE A GHOST! LIKE I WAS NEVER EVEN HERE!"
*5 years later* fuck all of you...
My first job, I was honestly a fairly average employee. Aside from never being late or calling out, I showed up, did an average amount of work, and went home. Didn't get a raise after my first year. Did I like that? No, but I didn't whine about it. I took the opportunity to evaluate my work ethic, then moved onto a new job.
Afterwards I worked at other places where I busted my ass and got promoted with a pay raise. Then I'd learn what I could from that place, gain experience/build my resume, and move onto new jobs that paid better. I managed my first store when I was 23, made pretty decent money. The money helped me pay for college.
I don't see why anyone deserves a raise just because they've done average/subpar work for a year. Sure, not everyone can be a manager. The store I first managed gave raises to everyone at the one year mark, but it could be as little as a 'fuck you .25 cents' up to an extra 1.50/hour. It all depended upon you being a good worker. Seems pretty fair to me.
>I have more spending cash than you
The only people I know who are like that are grad students....who pay for everything with loans
It's total insanity
>get your masters for an additional $80k+ of debt
This is why I fucking HATE immigrants. Legal or illegal. I don't give a fuck. I hate them all. They work here, make money, then send it back to their fucking home countries where it circulates. The money circulates THERE, not HERE.
Better to save a little money up for hard times or university than go out and build up a ton of debt and then default on it because you're living beyond your means.
I'd be more concerned about billionaires hoarding up and not spending any money then people scraping together pennies on minimum wage so they can try to earn a better life for themselves.
It was sarcasm silly, because people thought that in the past, back when farming was the major industry.
Technology replaces jobs, not destroy them. People find new things to do. Technology did replace 90% of the farming jobs, yet we don't have a 90% unemployment rate. If technology replaces 90% of the current jobs, we still won't have a 90% unemployment rate
Hilariously enough its the banks that have been hoarding up money cause of QE
They're waiting for better interest rates to give loans out, which is the opposite of what the fed wanted to happen
Fuck Immigrants. Seriously just fuck them. Instead of running from your problems actually stay in your shitty countries to FIX THEM. Don't come here and fuck our country up. Stay in your own shithole and try to improve it.
Contemporary capitalism is moving in the wrong direction. Things like planned obsolescence, institutionalized education, and unregulated healthcare(step in the right direction obomo) are just hinderances. We can live in a world where technology can cater to most of our needs but such a thing breeds negligence, yet if education can... Fuck explaining this nobody listens anymore nobody can think past themselves, just nuke everything
Why would they affect the socialist bloc if it's so efficient? It actually was bountiful in resources and had a skilled labour force. In theory it shouldn't need anything else, but when it tried to put those to use without profit in mind, it didn't work out.
>bountiful in resources
>had to import camel fur from the middle east to make a fucking couch
western american lapdog PLEASE
Our system allows us to choose not to trade with you
Your system requires you trade with us (since apparently resources aren't plentiful)
That's a failing of your system. Don't enact a market structure you can't maintain. That's a fault on your system, not ours
kek, only if you were some inner circle cunt that was fully taken care of.
For anyone else "leisure time" was "hustle time" to work under the table and build connections to get commodity goods that were widely available for simple cash in the civilized world.
It's really not unlike a prison economy.
Why? wasn't capitalism and capitalist society the most beautiful thing ever since the birth of Adam Smith? Wasn't capitalism and it's ideals of free and voluntary trade suppose to triumph over the eebil gommunist ones?
Not so voluntary when you choose not to be part of your system right you american swine?
>Hurr i know only what the media told me about the USSR in the 80's because i'm a pleb with no thinking skills
>voluntary trade means you have to trade with us
Voluntary trade gives us the opportunity to trade with you, as well as the opportunity to not trade with you. Hence the word voluntary. We succeeded using the principles of our system, you failed using the principles of your system. You can blame us for not trading, but your system shouldn't have to rely on capitalists to help you succeed. If you don't have enough resources to sustain a socialist market structure, then socialism is the wrong choice, and a failure in public policy
>you'll see, we'll have a perfect stateless, classless, moneyless society
>but we need shekels and trade with capitalists to get there!