I'm no expert on the american school system but it seems to be the next extension of the "no child left behind" policy which has served you all so well and has totally not crushed those with talent and intelligence by forcing them into mediocrity.
Should we have a national standard to make sure people are being taught the necessities?: Yes
Should it be based around SJW retard politics?: No
Should it be literally anything more than making sure people are getting taught to read and add numbers?: No
It's necessary to make sure we don't have kids getting totally shafted and left behind, creating a 3rd world welfare shithole in the middle of our country, but there needs to be room for differences in the way different states do things. It can't be an "our way or the highway" kind of thing.
>>41311564 it sets the same baffling standard for teaching that is rigid and the same if you tech yuppies with iphones in Connecticut or a pack of niggers in detroit or non english speaking spics in el paso
>>41311564 Theoretically it should be good. But the reality of it is >corporate run education >inundated with blatant liberal ideology >nonsensical and inefficient methods of solving problems >one size fits all education
Its no hidden secret that our education system is failing and its for a plethora of reasons. >Our teachers are shit Anyone who has been to college knows that education majors are some of the lowest caliber students out there. >A failing student's parents blame the teacher's fault, instead of taking the responsibility to discipline the student >Standardized tests are a fucking joke >it doesn't pay to be critical of a shitty teacher and speaking your mind in papers might net you a F if they disagree with it.
Finally, it teaches to the lowest denominator...a denominator that typically doesn't want to learn. What I could learn in a couple days would be taught in several weeks. I can't tell you how many games of euchre and rummy I played in a single day and maintained my "A"
Everyone hates it because no one actually paid attention in Math or was curious enough to know WHY something works.. they just memorize formulas and pass the test.
the distributive property is the entire basis for mathematics in algebra and above. without the distributive property none of it works and it's completely passed over in all levels of mathematics from pre-algebra to calc 3.
most people, even in calculus, today have a fundamental learning problem because of the way we learn to do math at an early age is flawed.
Common core is teaching cashier math and granted, the foundations of maths they will no longer have time for with the "improvements" in social studies and history.
Everything I ever needed to know about common core, I found in a civics handout on the bill of rights which pointedly refused to quote them... Since if they did, their summaries would easily be noted as the bullshit they are.
>Fourth graders in Wake County, North Carolina have been assigned one book that involves the Black Panthers and racism, and another involving a father’s murder, police crackdowns on Mexican unions, and immigration to the United States.
Its your typical anti-white agenda that's bashing America's history and culture.
>>41313497 Every kid learns cashier math currently.. addition and subtraction no matter how you learn it is cashier math.
I don't like anything else about common core, the changes to history etc
but something with the way our education system teaches math needs to be changed fundamentally if we expect to get more people interested in math and sciences.
every time someone says 'i just dont get it' when they're 17 and doing algebra 2 or pre-calc is because of the way they learned to count in grades 1-7 and because of the way pre/algebra1 was taught to them completely blowing past fundamental abstract concepts just so they can memorize a formula and pass a standardized test.
>>41313853 But Common Core is all about brain-dead standardization.
I agree with you that different kids have different learning abilities, and that some kids need special attention for being quicker while other kids need attention for being slower. And the kids in the middle need attention, too.
>>41313692 So, you going to start putting in professors in middle schools? The biggest problem is that almost all my math professors just wrote shit on a board and never told us WHY they should care about it and how to actually get to it. Especially to middle schoolers who get boners from a gust of wind. I agree, you can probably push up most math by at least 2 years, but this is a bit much.
And with common core, its more inefficient than teaching long-hand division. My old man taught me short hand division before they taught me long hand...and they almost failed me because I didn't follow their way. Now they expect kids to draw a bunch of line and circles?
>>41314175 No, just type in "common core white privilege."
I didn't bother saving the infographic because I thought nobody here would really need it. Or just forget about that and notice how they renamed "history" to "social studies" and then "global studies". God knows what they call it now. Probably "rape and racism studies" or something.
>>41314175 You'd think that, until you read the shit that they put in English/history/gov't text.>>41313646 with number 5
>>41314232 Yeah but with No Child Left Behind, the problems were the real high performing schools and the low performing schools. I went to a high one, even though we were top 10 in the state, we reached a point where you just couldn't improve without physically expelling the trailer park kids. Then you get the underperforming (ie urban) schools where being studious is looked down upon by their peers and parents largely don't give a rat's ass about their kid's education.
>>41314335 >In the real world, simplification is valued over complication This is always how I've approached math. I should not have to spend 3 minutes drawing a bunch of bullshit to get an answer that I could get, and understand (if I'm not fucking retarded) in less than 10 seconds. You can argue that common core is better for higher-level math, fine, implement it at the college level, not at the high school level when most of these kids are going to be taking Pre-Calculus at most. And even the gifted kids will only be taking AP Stats, Calc 2, and maybe some higher level Algebra.
>>41314384 >>41314389 Kindergarten (translation: child garden) was created in order to fracture the minds of children in such a way that they would never be able to think for themselves, so that they would become more perfect soldiers.
This and other great ideas brought to you by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Wundt >By creating this laboratory he was able to explore the nature of religious beliefs, identify mental disorders and abnormal behavior, and find damaged parts of the brain. In doing so, he was able to establish psychology as a separate science from other topics. He also formed the first journal for psychological research in the year 1881.
>>41311564 The math part of common core is controversial with all the number diagrams and shit but in reality it really only makes a few minor changes to the math curriculum between Kindergarten and 1st Grade. It adds a few new sections to the curriculum on basic arithmetic (adding, subtracting, multiplication, division) where it breaks down the mathematical logic of each algorithm students learn so that they can develop more competent mental mathematics.
Ex. 271 - 189 = 82
We learned it: >Take one from the tens place. 11 - 9 is 2 >Take one from the hundreds place. 160 - 80 is 80 >100 - 100 is 0 so the hundreds place goes away > ⇒ 271 - 189 = 82
Students under Common Core will learn it the same way eventually, but before that they spend a couple weeks learning: >189 → 190 = 1 >190 → 200 = 10 >200 → 271 = 71 >71 + 10 + 1 = 82 > ⇒ 271 - 189 = 82
All it really does is add a few extra steps which eventually just become "mental math" when you learn the compressed algorithms for stuff later. Same shit goes for multiplication before they learn to memorize times tables and do column multiplication. Same shit goes for division before they learn to do long division. Like I said, basically everything from 1st Grade on is pretty much unchanged.
The logic here is that by taking a few weeks worth of lessons to focus on this shit early on instead of leaving it to the students to develop mental mathematics on their own, you don't end up with as many people falling behind when you get to more complicated arithmetic. If less people are falling behind in arithmetic, less people will fall behind when you start algebra, and then geometry, trig, calculus, etc etc.
That people are making such a gigantic fucking deal out of it is ridiculous.
... NOW, the Common Core changes to history, government, social studies, etc? Yeah, that's all COMPLETE and utter HORSESHIT.
It's another expensive experiment that the US government will throw at it's education system to figure out the answer to the question, "Why can't JaTron read?"
The US has been doing this crap for decades. There is no super-effective undiscovered education method.
What got the US to the Moon? The same education that taught the Americans who worked on it, and the Germans who designed the rockets. It sure as shit wasn't 'Common Core.' But we can't have that, oh no. We need something 'new' because 'old' = 'bad' by this planned obsolescence society.
>>41314693 >The US has been doing this crap for decades. There is no super-effective undiscovered education method. This is true. Common Core isn't the first "New Math" and it won't be the last.
>What got the US to the Moon? The same education that taught the Americans who worked on it, and the Germans who designed the rockets. Funnily enough, there was a huge push during the early days of the space race to convert American math education to the Soviet-style "set-theory" form in an effort to try and close the perceived math and science gap.
The "New Math" of the 50s and 60s was mocked and derided by comedians and comics of the day and by the late 60s had been phased out for yet another 'Newer Math', which in turn was phased out for the format we learned during the 80s and 90s which is in turn being phased out for the Common Core curriculum, and so on. www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA
Twenty years from now the students learning Common Core now will, like us, and our parents, and our grandparents, be wholly convinced that their method is the only "right" way to learn math and that whatever new curriculum is being pushed on kids in the 2030s is a liberal socialist conspiracy to corrupt our children.
My point is the only thing anybody fucking bitches about in Common Core threads seems to be the math, when in reality that's really the only part of it that's actually decent.
>>41314999 I teach physics (college GTA) and while it would be great to start teaching modern physics (quantum physics, SR and GR, modern astrophysics, solid state, plasma, etc etc etc) in high school physics, that shit is NEVER going to fucking happen because there's very very little you can actually teach high school students about modern physics or more complicated physics without requiring them to understand differential and integral calculus, vector calculus, differential equations, series, linear algebra, etc etc.
Hell, College Physics for non-majors is taught strictly with algebra, geometry, and trig because we know that 99% of students aren't learning calculus before college, and that's not something that's about to change.
So, unfortunately, this means that any effort to teach modern physics in high school is going to be basically limited to extremely simple algebraic problems and qualitative explanations of theories and phenomena.
>>41315162 It never got called a number line, or anything. It was literally a minor alternative method or branch or whatever of "hundreds, tens and units". The hundreds, another hundred, some tens, then dot-dot-dot for the units - a written version of what goes on in your head.
>>41315313 Not sure what you're referring to. All I remember doing for all forms of basic addition and subtraction throughout pretty much my entire life is the parent's example in >>41314335. And that usually worked its way up from the smallest units to the larger ones.
>>41315213 Physics is nothing more than the observations of objects and describing them in mathematical notations it gives you no insight into Morality or Ethics. No insight into the meaning of life. It's useless for the vast majority of our society unlike philosophy which can lead to healthy lives and a more fluid and dynamic society.
>>41314206 My brother could do that. He was in a gifted class that followed a similar structure to teaching math. It was a once a week school day. He was taught subjects pertaining to math and science.
When "No Child Left Behind" started, he couldn't attend the class anymore. I don't know that the class existed after that.
I can't keep up with that pace. I think we should start by making sure public schools actually employ math teachers to teach math, even if we must pay them more.
>>41315140 >It works fine for what it is. It is the method people use in their heads, and is very fast. >>41315162 >I don't recall ever using the number line for basic math. >Unless you and I are thinking of 2 different number lines. I'm assuming what he's talking about is that when learned people do math in there head they typically employ a type of counting up for subtraction. After you do math for awhile you develop the technique somewhat subconsciously. Common core is actually skipping the foundational core part of mathematics and trying to go directly to advanced mental math employed on paper. It's good in theory...kinda, but it's going to be disastrous in practice.
>>41315310 But calculus is so easy. If you can run and jump or throw a ball, you know calculus. Teach that at the same time as Newtonian physics, and it's a lock.
I firmly believe many of the rest of these things can be taught at an early age. It's just going to take some exceptionally bright people to figure out how -- I have the utmost respect for educators in part because I'm not that good at it myself.
But fuck us all if we're going to intentionally cripple the minds of our children.
>>41313563 You wouldn't like it if people are better informed on your field of study? Math doesn't have bias. It's not something you can be red pilled or blue pilled about (Wildberger disagrees, but I digress). What it does have are stupid fucks, and Math gets a bad reputation because people think they have to memorize this, like Biology. No, people shouldn't, what educators should be teaching is why some application of Math works. After learning Euler, I'm convinced that anybody can breeze through Trigonometry. But that's way after K-12.
>>41314123 Nope, had parents who cared and knew that Math is important to learn.
>>41314335 >EE and mathematicians in the same sentence
>>41314335 LOL.. Bachelors degree in EE.. differential equations.. LOOK OUT GUYS WE GOT A REAL MATHEMATICIAN HERE
the reason it looks odd he because he learned the "wrong" way, no one is advocating using a number line in real life no one will have no because they will have a better understanding of numbers and shit like this can be done in their head. he's just used to doing it the braindead way where you dont actually work with numbers you just learn a formula. ADD A ZERO CARRY DA ONE ME SMART.
I know the answer.. jack should have only counted one tens place and 6 ones places rather than 6 tens places since as we can see in the 10ths spot is a one.. in the single spot is a 6..
I guess im smarter than a fucking electrical engineer.
>>41311634 maybe in "spirit", but brave new world worked on a whole 'nother level: in BNW, the lower classes weren't just mentally conditioned into slavery -- they were made specifically to be physically inferior. Shit like FAS was built into them directly so that they'd be stupider.
>>41311564 common core is an inferior education method being pushed by rich folk who are of the same ilk as bill gates. additionally, nothing about common core removes private schools or forces them to adopt it.
putting these together, it's basically a method for the extreme rich to keep the poor from being smart enough to become anything else.
>>41315587 Mine was a public school, but an exceptional one, and I was lucky. I didn't know how lucky I was when I was there. I spent my last two years there taking almost every AP course I could.
I know someone who spent some time in Russia as part of a college degree. The thing that was emphasized was that, even though the people were all poor as fuck and didn't have much of a future and the country was shit, they all generally had advanced educations. Like, that was one of the success stories that stuck out.
>>41315773 >Nope, had parents who cared and knew that Math is important to learn. Same here, but even I didn't learn Algebra before 6th grade. It certainly helped, considering my classes didn't start teaching Algebra until 7th grade.
>>41315773 >A public that is well versed in STEM will lead to faster technological output and productive discussion, propagating measurable quality of life and humanism faster than philosophy likely ever will. Yes because finding a tangent line or knowing the names of different bosons will bring world peace and end hunger. Doesn't matter if everyone knows how DNA replicated if people in a democratic society don't know how to work through political rhetoric or can't comprehend Metaphysics and all the moral and ethical questions that come from it. If we're all stuck in a economic system that is completely immoral it won't matter if people know particle physics because they're still stuck in that system and won't know it.
>>41315773 For me, it was only during AP classes that I was forced to have to derive the necessary equations, laws, and rules, on my own, based on having the underlying basics drilled in to me. Maybe that's not for everyone, but I brought myself up that way after being given the gift of reading and access to any book I wanted.
Damn near failed out my freshman year in college. But that's how I learned it wasn't going to be cut and paste and fill in the blanks easy anymore.
Kind of like when my parents made me get a summer job, and later told me I had to gtfo or pay rent.
>>41316016 Indeed it won't. The thing I fucked up most when I was in school was not getting an old fashioned formal education. All I have now is the books I was read as a child and the books I read now.
If it's any consolation, I occasionally run into some seriously smart people who once in a while are in semi-high places, and they always have some kind of mastery of non-STEM areas.
>>41313692 You're greatly overestimating the cognitive ability of teenagers. Just looking at SAT reading comprehension scores across years, you can see they develop many critical thinking skills only in their late teens.
Every generation is going to deride the next generation for deviating from what they were taught and the method in which they were taught. Heck, each generation is going to clash with their predecessors and their successors no matter what. That much is a given.
The issue arises when we cannot stop trying to fix the 'problems' we have by introducing new methods, instead of sticking to one method and fixing the people teaching it.
Look at all the 'new' tech we have now. LCDs, and solid state memory. LCD was discovered in the 1950s. We were perfectly capable of doing great things. And we did so because we perfected the method of teaching.
Sometimes it's just better to perfect the wheel, rather than focus on constantly trying to reinvent it.
>>41315870 Parents get confused because parents don't know math. I don't know math. I got an A in linear algebra and I don't know anything about math it's beyond my critical thinking and creative capability to actually understand and that probably has a great deal to do with the way I learned core concepts in pre-algebra.
And the higher in math you go little things like that start to build up and ruin your critical thinking ability until you're just "learning answers" rather than learning why the answers are answers.
So, while I'm against the political aspects of common core I'm for a change in how children are taught to work with numbers, definitely.
Whats really amusing to me is in the last ten years or so left wing academia has changed countless things that just worked fine for literally thousands of years because in their own personal arrogance they somehow think they are enlightened and better than ALL of human history
>>41316412 When you get into higher math, this is absolutely true. Some people can handle it when you just spray a huge equation across the screen, but, for the most part, that won't play unless you explain, at an intuitive level, what the hell that all means and why it's there.
But we're talking about common core. In other words, things like adding and subtracting. Get real.
Because you aren't actually subtracting 3 from 4 you're subtracting three 100's from four 100's.
And that might look like nothing, but those shortcuts build up over years and kill your ability to critically think.
a 5 year old has no concept of 100's. This introduces it without shortcuts and makes them think about what they are really doing when they take 316 away from 427 rather than breaking it into 3 different single digit subtractions.
can anyone point me in the direction of a credible debate on common core? i read different things and they're all contradictory. i agree with the stated goals but unsure if they're being pursued poorly. also, ive read that the failures and fucked up stories are due to poor administration on the local level.
>>41316703 >http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/MomsPDFs/DDDoA.sml.pdf Thanks! Reading the forward it seems on the up and up. One thing stands out to me. I understand not trusting big government bureaucracy and social marxists to raise children, but I don't really trust the dumb parents either. Most aren't really invested in their children's future either.
>>41316133 It's more beneficent than just showing them how place-value notation works, and teaching the arithmetic from there. I swear to god, if we just tought kids numbers as they are written, rather than just as beans or some shit, there would be a lot less trouble down the road.
>>41311564 Sciencefag here. Its highly idealistic in the sense of what they are trying to accomplish. Does it force students to think critically? I'd say yes, but as most people covering it are of young age who could probably care less, I am not sure. I think common core is nice to look at myself. Its quite clever, usually trying to explain things to students without using fancy words.
>>41316815 I could see counting the physical objects being important for visualizing the concepts of addition, subtraction, division, multiplication, etc. But you need to eventually switch to numbers by themselves so they don't get trapped into trying to visualize larger and larger quantities everytime.
>>41316814 Dumb parents are a very real thing. That's kind of a separate discussion.
What I do for a living is look at problems and try to figure out how to solve them. That's part of the reason I am in favor of public education and subsidies for kids to have access to educational materials and things like that. (Maybe that's why I spend too much time on 4chan.)
But I think what we're ultimately facing here is a large-scale sociological, or even spiritual, problem. I think that's a discussion that probably belongs in a different thread. But I believe in having the right mechanisms in place at a low level in order to enable the whole system to work, because we need every part of the system to work. That's the only way to do it if you're in it to win it.
>>41316700 That's exactly what learning to add and subtract like this does.
>>41316652 >no, that's called understanding what numbers mean, and how to work with them. It looks like it's dumbed down but it isn't. It's the same thing just this way shows them what they are actually doing.
We just have a hard time looking at it objectively because we aren't 1st graders anymore and addition is too easy for us to understand conceptually.
We're talking about kids that maybe a year ago had to use their fingers to visualize the number 5.
I don't really see a problem with alternative ways to learning, but I haven't read any studies on this way.
>>41317073 I'm sure it's a helpful learning aid for some. I've had it demonstrated to me both by teachers and by little kids.
But the bottom line is that they need to have a mastery of basic symbolic manipulation. This is the basis of language. It is something that sets humans apart from their genetic predecessors. It is the basis of the development of learning, and of being able to pass learning down from generation to generation in order to be able to go beyond the stone age and figure out things like how to have laws and civilization.
I fully reject the notion that this can be abandoned. Not unless we want to go back to being retarded slaves who only understand pictures. Not unless we want to displace literacy.
>>41316972 >Opposite operations ...How could they teach math without that being blatant? How could you avoid a child pointing that out in every class? Either Common Core is much worse than I can possibly imagine, or I'm overestimating children.
>>41317008 I'm just saying you've identified the problem, but I don't see any solutions. There's no great wiseman that is willing to guide curriculum without his own bias and agenda polluting it. Supposedly impartial liberal think-tanks and assessments are the worst culprits of internalized bias and lack of self-awareness.
>>41317214 Sorry to say brah, but most kids don't learn that subtraction is adding negatives till like 6th, 7th grade. In fact, most teachers actively prevent students from bringing up negative numbers, saying that it's impossible to subtract a bigger number from a smaller one.
They don't learn division is actually just multiplication by the reciprocal till like 8th grade either, and you'd be lucky to find a kid pre-10th grade that knows that the square root of that number is actually that number raised to the one half.
The kids that can avoid multiplying by reciprocals entirely by making the reciprocal a number raised to the negative 1 are an even more rare breed, most students don't even learn about negative exponents till 11th grade.
This is in Texas though, I'm not sure what the situation elsewhere in America is.
>>41317214 Hence the importance of parents in the development of a child, and good parents at that. As humans, we are all imperfect.
But if you want to know about think tanks, check out, "Foundations: Their Power and Influence" by Rene M. Wormsor, who was general council to the Recce Commission (a congressional commission following up on the Cox (lol) commission) that investigated whether or not our tax-free foundations were being unamerican or not. It's very insightful commentary on just what happened to academia in and around the 1960s and how that all worked.
>>41317324 I can barely remember learning that, and my whole class learned it.
I remember 1st grade some kids were having varying difficulties learning to read. That's like five years old, so I guess those were the kids who weren't read to as a child.
Actually, maybe we were also learning to add and subtract in first grade. Yeah, I remember these test books we were taking about halfway through. Some kids needed help with that, but we all had to do it.
I think maybe some kids still needed help with that in second and third grade, too, but that was a minority.
Seriously, this is the kind of shit you need to put in a kid's brain early on when it's going to be able to encode these things rote.
>>41317389 Like I said, teaching it any other way than the algorithms in which arithmetic is based is just fucking with the kids head.
By the way, you're wrong. It's not "4 100's, 2... 1's", it's 4(10^2) + 2(10^1) + 5(10^0)
Place-value notation works on the mechanics of exponents (hence being able to work with decimals in the same system), not hundreds, thousands, hundreths, etc... This is why it's called the base 10 system, and this is the way it should be taught.
>>41317389 Now 5th grade, I remember this. I remember this clearly.
We were given these workbooks to fill out by using logic. It would be the equivalent that Guess Who game -- just crossing out impossibilities until you got the right answer. Symbolic logic would have been a bit much, but we could at least count on our fingers if it came to that.
>>41317463 Exactly my point. Children are smarter than people give them credit for, and I firmly believe that teaching elementary students arithmetic as it is, rather than how it has been simplified, is much more effective.
A very positive externality of this is that now we can get rid of PEMDAS, and institute a flat "left-to-right, inner-to-outer-brackets" as kids will understand the exact relations between operations
>>41317578 Well, there still is an order of operations thing, even if you take out the brackets. And nobody really wants put in all the brackets all the time.
Funny story, I was working with a like a seriously smart old professor just the other day, and pointing out why we would need to require brackets for our particular symbolic language as a rule, even though we had been playing fast and loose with them on the whiteboard for the past few years. It took him a little while, but then he was like, "oh, yeah, ok, you're right"
So maybe at a higher level you don't need to be so pendantic in your daily life, but it's important to be able to do that.
>>41317690 That can be solved easily just by removing the multiplication sign entirely. Sure, it'd be a bit more cumbersome, but it would be much more readable
So something like 4 + 3 * 5 rather than having to use PEMDAS and multiply the 3 *5 first, could instead be written as 4 + 3(5) Students should at this point have learned the distributive rule, and knowing to do the inner most parenthesis first, would distribute the constant or variable first, before adding the terms.
Hell, just teaching them about terms early on would get rid of PEMDAS, as there would then be no difference between 4 +3(5) and 4 +3x, students would be able to recognize anything with a bracket as it's own term, regardless if it's a constant, variable, polynomial, whatever.
>>41317147 >The problem is that instead of letting students realise the process for themselves, they're putting it on paper. 90% of my college physics students every semester can't understand why A = ½B implies B = 2A or why they can't add something in units of meters to something in units of degrees Kelvin. Half the people I know need an app to figure out a 10% tip on dinner. The woman who works the register at the dinner next to my office doesn't know how to make exact change without a calculator.
... clearly people aren't fucking realizing shit for themselves.
If there's even the slightest chance of a minor modification towards early learning helping reduce that percentage twenty years from now, I think it's worth a shot.
The liberal arts curriculum shit? Sure chuck it in the fire, but quit bitching about the math.
Even further more, take the expression 3 * 4 + 2 *5 and convert it to 3(4) +2(5) This would be the best way to teach children about terms, as you can't directly add 3 fours and 2 fives. Instead, they would have to convert it to where they're the same order of term, which would be 12(1) + 10(1) Which can easily be added to be 22(1) = 22 In just the same way that 3x + 5x = 8x
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