What is your opinion of men's reluctance to marry?
Manchildren who don't want to grow,or logical people reacting to incentives?
>men's reluctance to marry?
They don't want to settle for the scraps. Women's rights and sanctification of the (actually despicable) female nature gave rise to an environment in which they can live according to their biological polygamous needs, the top X% of men get all the good women (and won't marry one when they can have all), while the (100-X)% of men who are left with nothing have virtually no possibility to marry.
And if one decides he wants to be with a woman ... why marry? It gives women leverage to completely ruin your life. I personally know a couple of guys who married and were robbed of their children and half their possessions. Even if the sluts find a new man that can provide for them, these men still have to pay alimony to them. Their children grow up to hate their fathers, and being left without a proper father figure, they turn into wimps or manchildren as you call them, who are neither ready nor willing to marry.
The fact there's not a single benefit to it for men seems like a pretty big deal.
Those numbers are huge too, I wouldn't have expected that high going into their mid 30's.
Speak for yourself, my parent's are still married and are (seemingly) happy.
Feminists destroyed the family unit and marriage. There is NO benefit for males to get married anymore. Its a giant liability and all the benefits go to the female thanks to the parasitism of state.
every reply so far is true
why even bother? fuck it, its over.
>actually reading that article
These people try to shame men into believing its their responsibility to marry a girl and never bother to actually analyze why a man might think that's a bad decision.
All these people pushing this are more retarded than millions of men who recognize the poor decision current marriage is. These people would never survive without a government teat to suckle off of.
Marriage is the stupidest thing a man can do in western countries.
Western women are usually garbage. Have fun paying alimony for the rest of your life when she decides she wants to be Jamal's baby momma.
The old marriage was basically dependency system, where men needed women to have kids for their retirement and/or continue family business (usually a farm). Women needed men for financial stability and their personal needs and the retirement kids provided.
Now that modern society provides retirement systems and growing up kids are such a financial burden that it's not worth it, there's no incentive to marry.
Marriage used to be about women and men having both needs to fulfill and it was convenient to marry, but it was always about commitment to something greater and solving differences. Now that women are liberated financially, they no longer need men.
Which brings us to that that women have always depended on men to provide in the past, which is the reason women vote more liberal, more green, more leftist and more green - they've never had to deal with logical fallacies in their beliefs and actually solve problems. Also women have historically been the more social sex, which makes them extremely powerful in grouping up behind one belief in today's world; feminism.
I want off this ride.
Also of note, the very last paragraph.
>“Feminism was supposed to bring women happiness,” Crouse said. “But the research shows that women today are much more unhappy then they have been in the past. They’ve ended up with far more opportunities, but their personal happiness is way down.”
I want to laugh and feel bad for them at the same time. Damn empathy.
I have a cure for that
70% of men aged 20-34 are smarter that you think...
>In our part of the world, where monogamy is in force, to marry means to halve one’s rights and to double one’s duties. When the laws granted woman the same rights as man, they should also have given her a masculine power of reason.
>What is your opinion of men's reluctance to marry?
probably what is causing the feminists to bitch harder. They keep saying men are somehow the problem, when their real problem is that they are not getting any relationships, which in turn makes even more men run from them
As you've put it, there is zero incentive to get married. You get nothing from it that you couldn't get without marriage, and you only lose money if you do marry
I've never been a believer of "all [blank] are the exact same"
You have to understand the mindset a woman would even need before she would go to omegle or sites like that; it's not exactly a healthy one.
My parent are married and still happy for more than 30 years
But yeah i don't plan on getting married so fast i mean what are the benefit ? i'm no christian
I would like tho but lose half my shit if i end up marriying a fucking whore no thanks
Financial stability, better children, it's easier to gain and grow wealth and companionship. The problem is the risk of divorce and the lack of respect for men who sacrifice to keep their family in good financial shape.
Unless you want to have children like some normalfag.
Prostitutes are cheaper than wives/children in my opinion. I buy one every several months and my sexual urge is kept in check.
22 y/o neet
I would just be adding to a statistic that wouldn't end well for me, why rush it. actually why should i marry ever /pol/?
if i ever got off my ass and made money wouldn't that make me beta if i wasted all my hard earned cash on a wife?
>caring what the internet thinks
I'm sorry to tell you, but you already are beta.
There's a difference between taking an anon's advice and outright asking if what you're doing is okay.
>Prostitutes are cheaper than wives/children in my opinion.
Not just in your opinion m80
Basically they're realizing that they made a bad trade. In the "traditional" family unit and social dynamics, women held a similar status as children: little autonomy but rarely did they have to worry about doing anything but caring for children and an hour or two of household chores per day. Men in their lives met their material needs for them. Then they joined the workforce and doubled the labor supply (halving wages) which not only made them incapable of fulfilling their household role, it made men incapable of being providers as well since wages have fallen so far. Universal suffrage turned out to be little more than universal wage slavery in the end.
I'd be butthurt too if my destiny to be a lazy NEET was snatched away from me by a bunch of self-righteous cunts.
Feminism also seeks to reduce the association between the sexes to only a sexual relation with as little interdependence as possible. They should really stop being surprised that such a system dramatically favors the gender that doesn't have a reproductive shelf life. How are women going to keep Chad around long term without a societal pressure to force him to care for them or a baby-shaped anchor to at least hold him in place until the kid's grown?
With your reasoning, reaching a post scarcity society before the sheer weight of wage slavery kills everyone seems like the most important goal.
That or somehow rolling back women's rights, which honestly seems like the more difficult task.
growing up see my parents who have been together for 23years think marriage is awesome, grow older realize how much they hate each other,
here from work/friends of cheating/bored/whore wives who leave first chance at better guy taking half of everything.
I have become jaded as fuck and im starting realize life isnt some disney movie and marriage is a fucking scam.
might adopt children later tho, who knows
Marriage is a joke. Very few are meant to spend their entire lives together.
My Grandparents have been at each other's throats for the past 15 years and are both incredibly unhappy. Marriage is ugly.
adding on to this point kind of
women's concept of relationships are so fucking warped these days its insane
i hardly know a single girl that hasn't cheated on a guy
we're not fucking manchildren because we dont want to date a 22 year old single mother of a kid that screams constantly because he's not properly raised
if there were some kind of movement for women to step their game up in their treatment of men, i bet youd see that chart turn upside down
but instead the media constantly pushes that any amount of manipulation or abuse from women is supposed to be cheered and encouraged
why would i want to sign a binding contract to that?
Do Not Get Married
My father made the mistake
I made the mistake
Every man of my generation is or has been close to making the mistake
It is a lie
Do not believe it
If you want a kid adopt or try that surrogate shit
Do not marry, you will always regret something
Marriage is just living together without the benefit of leaving
At 26, a lot of my friends are in long term relationships, some even have kids already. But out of like 10 people that I can think of, only one is thinking about marriage (with his gf of 12 years).
My dad was married with a kid (me) at 25.
You're crazy if you're not seeing a mass fall of birth-rates. People are still having babies, just as there were still bachelors during the 50s. But society-wide, fertility took a large hit now.
at the risk of going on too long
im also fundamentally opposed to the concept of marriage i believe true love is possible on a mutual level. i dont want some girl staying with me because we're built around eachother or breaking up would be hard, no if she wants out i fucking want her out AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE
why on earth would i want anyone to stay with me because i have a socially binding contract? why would i want to be some broads convenience? why play the guessing game of do i make her comfortable or does she actually love me?
when if we're just dating i kind of know for a fact, because if she didn't she would leave
Europe has been around or below replacement rate for generations, if it weren't for all the niggers we import, we'd have had a shrinking population by now. If anything, the willingness of niggers to breed with even the most disgusting of white girls, birth rates are on the up again.
Nobody ever believes me when I say women's lib is societies terminal illness
Men build and run society womeb do not and are not naturally inclined to
When a civilization hits a certain point of wealth and power they emancipate women this invariably leads to the collapse of the family then collapse of the community then the civilization itself which is wiped away and replaced
It happens over and over
Unfortunately we are somewhere around 250 ad just beginning our downslope I fear for my grandchildren
My bro put the boat anchor around his neck recently; spent his life pining over some high school friend that is a 4/10 at best with serious genetic defects who basically ignored him until she turned 30. Suddenly it's all "i loved you all along even though I totally treated you like a stranger in college, I was a /pol/ worthy wife all along". Now they go on appointments every other day to every kind of practitioner imaginable to stop her failing body and genetics from catching up to her.
She will probably divorce him in a few years after he climbs into upper management and our courts will throw her a parade.
this is one thing the feminists can't wrestle from us
women MUST find their husband by their early 30s or they are doomed. a man can bide his time, find a woman in her 20s when he's in his late 40s or early 50s
if 70% of the men aged 20-34 are not married then presumably about 70% of the women in that age range are also unmarried
therefore your question is framed arbitrarily, you could just as easily ask why are women reluctant to marry? womenchildren who don't want to grow or logical people reacting to incentives.
You guys should read up on Gavin McInnes
>In October 2013, McInnes was interviewed by The Huffington Post on a panel about the meaning of masculinity, and said "people would be happier if women would stop pretending to be men", and that feminism "has made women less happy". He explained that "Women are feigning that toughness. We’ve trivialized childbirth and being domestic so much that women are forced to pretend to be men. They’re feigning this toughness, they’re miserable." A heated argument followed when University of Miami law professor Mary Anne Franks responded, and McInnes in his reply loudly called her a "fucking idiot"
Women don't want to get married until they're old and unattractive now.
When they were young and sweet and had nice juicy vaginas they were busy building careers and/or fucking bad boys.
Now they're like farmers who have already squeezed the juice from their oranges and getting angry that nobody is interested in the remainder of the fruit.
It's like farmers
I think the question is framed appropriately. traditionally, it's the men who proposes to the women. If the men do not want to get married, no marriage happens, even if the woman wants to. The best she can do is nag at him for years.
>manchildren who don't want to grow up.
It cracks me up that when a woman doesn't marry, she's expressing her feeling of empowerment, but when a man does it, he's a 'manchild'.
In my opinion, the answer is simple... men would be nuts entering into a relationship where they have all the responsibility but none of the advantages.
The social compact of marriage has been destroyed in the last 20 years. Better to stay clear for a while.
thomas sowell explains it best
what happened to blacks after the 60's is finally happening to whites today
>Mexicans keep the birth rate up.
Exactly. Mexicans breed like rabbits and that's why the government wants to open up the flood gates. Instead of fixing the country and making it possible to earn a living wage again they would rather let in a 100 million more fucking illegals to make up for the deficit of tax slaves.
Well uh yeah, modern marriage is kinda pointless.
Let's see, what was the point of marriage for the majority of human history? For the man to move in and take control of the womans family's assets and combine them with his family's to strengthen both family's social and economic standing and then the produce an heir so that that property and money can remain with that family.
And in the case of lower class people to expand/diversify farming lands and produce inexpensive labor to work those lands aka children.
It's because the nature of the media has done so well to introduce a stalling mechanism, so as to install a consumer culture that is very obedient.
Basically, the only conceivable way to control a society is to get in the way of the concept of True Love. It is not so strong, for the numbers projected were a higher percentage.
It's way to much of a financial risk.
Also what if I don't want to get married right now? What if I just want to enjoy my life?
Also, older women are a lot more enjoyable. They're experienced, patient, understand that they aren't the world, appreciate the attention and can be mature. They're not going out to fuck every guy because they know they can't and understand their limits. They're also more likely to understand that children are a liability or that bearing children are hard. Adaption by an old couple isn't a bad thing and can be good for the parents and the child.
Personally, I'm going to wait until I'm in my 50's to look. Because than women may not be the prettiest thing in the world, but they're more worth my time conversationally wise.
Benjamin Franklin put it perfectly in his Advice to a Young Man on How to choose a Mistress.
Also to younger men, choosing a older women can mean the world to her, because she appreciates the attention.
> and many live in a state of “perpetual adolescence” with ominous consequences for the nation’s future
fuck them, and fuck your "consequences"
It will get much worse. Modern women are entitled, fat bitches and porn is an outlet for male sexual urges. The technologic progress will most likely make porn even more immersive and women less attractive. Women will become even bigger whores to keep up with porn technology and birth rates will plummet. Eugenics will have to takeover natural procreation.
>you should prefer old Women to young ones. You call this a Paradox, and demand my Reasons. They are these:
>8thly and Lastly They are so grateful!!
And no mention of how most divorce is initiated by women. Men just don't feel like putting up with that bullshit again just so another bitch initiates divorce and takes half his shit.
Women will turn around and yell my body, my choice, but when men make decisions in a free society it has "ominous consequences."
Mate, the more I interact with women, the more the stereotypes seem to be true.
It depresses me to no end. I expected the majority of women to be decent, instead the majority of women I've interacted with are awful, and somehow each woman sees other women behaving like this but thinks she's different and special and doesn't.
And then you catch her in a lie, and there's no end to the rationalization and justification she'll go to make sure it's everyone else's fault but hers for lying.
I'm sick of it. I'm sick of this culture that tells women it's okay to 'always be right' because they're the woman. I hate this culture that tells them they can act like children with no responsibilities while simultaneously giving them jobs and roles that require responsibility - and then at the same moment, punish men when they try to take on those extra responsibilities for the women anyways.
It's like society itself turned into an abusive nagging woman who has no respect for her spouse, and the men of the western world are taking it like betacucks instead of telling the women to sit down and shut up.
Is still doesn't address the fact that while our fathers and grandfathers got jobs as welders or truck drivers and still could support 1-3 kids and a housewife, most of us today are lucky to work on shitty retail or telemarketing jobs.
If they really want to solve this they're going to need to provide men an incentive to marry. But since they never use the carrot and only use the stick when it comes to men, they're not going to solve this problem.
>I will lost custody 70% of the time
>I will be forced to pay child support for children that are not genetically mine
>the woman can initiate the divorce at any time, for any reason and I lose half of my things
>I will do a majority of the domestic tasks and if I expect my wife to do any of them I am a sexist
>In domestic violence I am automatically considered the perpetrator and guilty
>A woman can accuse me of rape at any time, for any reason and I can be convicted
Feminism built this horrible model where men have zero rights. And now they're wondering why no men are participating. They even have the gall to say "perpetual adolescence."
There's just too much risk, men have zero rights, and there's this culture assuming that men are supposed to accept this.
Summed up: There is no incentive to marry.
Ahh, no. People DO get paid, but they're just not the working class. The capitalists get paid.
And as automation continues, the capitalists accrue a greater and greater share of wealth as the increases in efficiency means less goes to the workers. Until, at some point, nothing goes to the workers. This is the capitalist dream: Control of all the wealth.
Ask questions like, "What are you going to DO with all that wealth?" and you'll get blank stares from the capitalist.
They don't DO anything with it. They just accrue it like points in a skinnerbox videogame.
>work my arse off 70 hours a week on site
>20 year old gf works 15-20 hours and brings in 1/8th of the household income
>barely cleans up after herself, let alone my mess
>always bitches about having to cook every day, even though it takes at max half an hour
>have to get really enraged before she even thinks about washing clothes or ironing
>spends her free afternoons watching tv, on her smartphone or buying useless shit
This generation of girls are entitled cunts. I've had 5 girlfriends and all of them wanted to get married/have kids, yet none of them are interested in domestic chores.
>What is your opinion of men's reluctance to marry?
Feminism insanity. Risk of being ripped off by the woman that "loves you" with no advantages. Modern women are trash in general.
Marriage just isn't worth it.
Open the door to legal problems that can ruin your life.
Don't need it to have sex or even a kid.
I look forward to a future when children are produced in laboratories because nobody wants to go through the hassle of actually raising a human being.
Well yes. But the people running our financial engines don't really seem to care or worry about that. I guess it's an uncomfortable truth that the economy doesn't actually exist just to enrich a small select portion of it at the cost of everyone else.
There are people who don't think it's possible for a small portion of the population to even control all the wealth, but I think that's pretty easy to refute nowadays when you can show that 40-60% of all the wealth in the world is owned by a few thousand individuals.
The end effective result of siphoning all the money away from the working class and into the pockets of the capitalists, is that the money becomes intrinsically worthless over time. What usually occurs at this point is a 'monetary reset' with the workers using a new currency (Whether the capitalists want them to or not) and the capitalists losing mostly everything. Basically, unbridled capitalism is self-destructive. Our government, our corporations, and our people shouldn't be focused on making money. They should be focused on things that matter: Happiness, self-fulfillment, autonomy, sustainability and so forth.
Our society is infected with greed and it'll be its downfall. I wish one of these days a human society could be infected with a virtue instead of a mortal sin.
I'm in building and it's fairly common. We always work long and 6 days a week to finish jobs faster, gets us more business as the clients like old school builders and recommend us to all their rich friends. Some of the blokes even do night work a few nights a week, on top of the 70 hours.
My Mom slept around on my Dad. They got divorced and I grew up only seeing him once every 3 weeks for a weekend.
My Brother's wife. Living in a house he personally bought with his own business. Became bored after a few years since she married at 20. She divorced him despite him pleading for her to make it work. Offering to go to counselling. She divorced him, took custody of their 8 month old child, demanded the house because the baby needed a place to stay, and that he pay over $4,000 a month on top of the mortgage. After all that she still makes it hell to actually see his own son. 3 days every 2 weeks and she sets the hours. Mostly when she knows he is most active at the business.
Best friend was married for 4 years with a wife and 3 kids. Again a start up man with his own business and a "stay at home mom". She divorced him after refusing to have sex with him for almost 2 years and generally making his life miserable at every turn. Still has to pay out the ass because she got the kids and like always, they rarely get to see their father without him taking it up the ass one way or another.
Yeah fuck married. It is willingly giving a woman your cock and balls and saying "I am really hoping you don't cut off my cock and take my money and deny me access to my own children that the courts will give to you in almost every single separation."
Competition with China ruined a lot of native industry in Brazil too. My father was laid off in the 90s after 20 years of work for a (ironically american owned) company making plastics because it was suddenly much cheaper to buy them from China. It was a blue collar job, but somehow we lived as a lower middle class family out of his earnings.
Now I get shitty web-designer jobs (and here competition with Indians working from sites like fiverr is sinking the prices we can charge) or telemarketing (boy I'm glad Indians don't speak Portuguese) and need to share housing with two friends to make ends meet.
>The modern man places high value on his personal happiness.
Not even that. Rational people simply will not act against their own interests, and the modern institution of marriage is biased tremendously against the long-term interests of the male. What we're seeing here is a perfectly rational and predictable response.