Girls on average hit puberty between their 12th and 13th birthdays. If they don't know enough about sex to make semi-rational decisions about what they do with their own bodies at 12 then they damn well should. It's not like I think it's a good idea for 12 year olds to have sex, but that doesn't change the fact that most of them want to and many of them will actually do it - this so called 'natural innocence' on which age of consent laws were based is fiction.
Sex is such a personal thing that I think the choice should always be left to the person whose body it is where possible, like consenting to medical procedures. I don't think the government has the right to tell even someone as young as 12 what they can legally do with their bodies or who they can do it with. As for age-gap laws, we might find it more creepy if a 12 year old is fucked by a 40 year old as opposed to an 18 year old, but objectively is 40 year old dick any worse for 12 year olds than 18 year old dick?
Yes, 12 year olds aren't adults, but they are considered old enough to be held criminally responsible when they break the law, unlike, say, 6 year olds - the law already recognises the distinction between children and adolescents, why can't the age-of-consent laws reflect this? This doesn't mean that teenagers under 18 should be able to do whatever the hell they want - if the parents of a 14 year old don't want her seeing a 30 year old then they're perfectly entitled to get a restraining order. But there's a difference between being arrested for violating a restraining order and being arrested for rape - parents are entitled to tell their children who they can and can't see if they feel it's necessary, but 30 year old who has sex with a 12 year old shouldn't be labelled a rapist, and imprisoned as such, for perfectly consensual sex.
It's not really about consent. It never has been. person can reasonably understand and consent to sexual activity at like, five. Not *really*, but than again some people in their 30's can't either. Everyone's different.
The laws about age of consent are about protecting people when they don't have personal agency in their society. An average 16 year old doesn't have a job, can't drive a car, doesn't have a car, lives with someone else, doesn't control said housing, is in school, etc etc. They don't have control of their own life. A 34 year old, generally, does.
Why do you think age of consent is so often close to the age people traditionally get jobs, or go to college/uni?
Laws can't realistically ever account for everyone. They have to deal with the average person, with some wiggle room for common abonormalities.
That said, most neets on 4chan can, theoretically, gain agency over their lives. There's nothing legally preventing them from doing so, and they're treated as adults under the law in all ways. A 16 year old isn't, and they have both restrictions and protections based on it.
>>43740270 I'm not entirely sure there should be one. Since the modern idea of consent requires it to be constant throughout and can be withdrawn part way through.
You can say that a child doesn't know what they're getting themselves into if they consent to sex, so they shouldn't be able to. But they'll figure it out pretty fast and can back out if they don't like it. We accept that children make choices all the time, but when it comes to sex we pretend like they are incapable.
I guess there are things like STDs and stuff that a child wouldn't be aware of though. So they're taking risks they don't understand they're taking. But surely that's the case for many pursuits children are allowed to do. For example, becoming a child actor would have a profound impact on your later life the likes of which a child wouldn't fully understand.
>>43740270 Laws will never be universally perfect, it depends on the circumstances and the overall concept how good of a result they might bring. People just will reveal to you the age of the girls they would like to have sex with. Victoria Justice should be the age of consent.
>>43740292 Mainly it's interrelated with the entering of the work force, since the age of employment kept rising so did the age of consent.
''Concentrate on the school first sweety, after that you still will have enough time left to find your prince charming.''
I assume in Germany we stopped lifting when reaching the 14 mark.
18. Before the age of 18, your parents/legal guardians should have the ultimate say if you are mature enough mentally to do something.
This should be applied for other things too besides just sex, such as voting and owning a firearm.
If you're 16 and want to vote for instance, and if your parents believe you are mature enough to make your own important decisions, they should be able to apply for a waiver for you to become a legal adult.
This is allowed if you're 17 and want to join the military, you need the parents consent. And this is how it should be for everything else as well.
>>43740791 Yes. Its 14 with some additional limitations that virtually never come to use, emphasizing on you shouldn't quasi rape them up to the age of 16. But when you actually rape them I assume they will simply make it a rape case.
In the US the main reason why they hesitate to lower it might be teen pregnancies.
fact: Pedophilia is associated with a lack of white brain matter which leads to poorer judgment and lower intelligence.
fact: There is an enormous amount of adult pornography available and adult escorts so there is little reason for someone to develop a fetish for adolescents in the first place. It is essentially an immoral choice even if they have poorer judgment.
fact: A 15 year old likely lacks experience and knowledge and cannot consent to sexual activity, even if there is only a 1% chance of them being psychologically harmed it is not worth it, 99 instances of sexual activity is not worth 1 instance of harming someone psychologically and possibly physically. In real life the chances are much higher than 1% of course.
fact: Adolescents are more likely to have complications during pregnancy, growth is not complete when puberty begins.
>>43741043 Rolf had sex with dumb shit groupies. He didnt have to ask if they were 18 or see their ID before doing what any musician/entertainer deserves to do when presented with prime pussy. There was no hard evidence other than the testimony of few washed up and broke groupies.
Some people are so insecure about themselves they can't have a good time and get jealous when others do.
I was one of them. Every single of my class was in love with me and several reasons kept me from getting into relationships with any of them. When they started to date the guys 3 classes up I openely called them pedos and laughed into their blushing faces.
Later I got into porn and things in me surfaced I wouldn't have thought to be possible to ever occure.
I'm grateful for this experience, for life having me thrown into a seeing things from a different perspective.
>>43741043 >pedophilia is a thoroughly left wing idea that arose during the "free love" movement of the 60s and 70s do you mean, like, year 60 AD, or...? because kid sex was around for a pretty long time
>>43741043 Sexual attraction to adolescents is perfectly natural. Even though we know impregnation at that stage could cause complications, a man and woman that plan to mate should be able to become used to one another in a sexual and psychological manner before they start their family.
This might be a good idea. Make people mature before they engage in sex. There's a lot more responsibility to carry than consuming alcohol and it would result in less single parent homes, less welfare, and a less screwed up society in general.
I'll add something else to these that is tangentially relevant.
The taboo surrounding teenage sex really has a lot to do with the fact that getting married and having children early is seen as archaic (and lower class), because of womens lib and women joining the workforce, etc, etc. Under the veneer of concern for teenage girls who have sex, and possibly kids, young, there is a large amount of snobbishness.
Ironically, it's really the women who wait until they're past thirty to get married because they want a career who're following the archaic system. 30 years ago women were expected to drop everything once they started a family, so the ones with aspirations married later so that they could get in some fun before they had to give it up.
Now it's more common for women to juggle both family and full time job, so what difference does it make when they get married? In fact, they're idiots for waiting until their thirties to start a family because they're handicapping themselves with young kids at just the point where their careers should be taking off (not to mention the fertility problems.)
If modern society was logical, women would get married at 14 or 15 (to a guy 21 or 22 who's just completed his bachelor's) and pop out two or three kids before they hit twenty (because it's a lot easier to get flexible schooling than it is to get flexible employment). Then, although they might enter the workforce two or three years after their male peers, their kids would be grown up enough to do without constant maternal supervision by the time they start getting serious with their careers.
If you were a thirty-four year old woman who's just got a promotion to manager, which would you prefer: a sixteen year old who can come home from school on her own, make her own dinner and (if you want to be optimistic) do her homework and chores by the time her mother gets home, or a one year old? Of course, logic is irrelevant here because lol pedos are evilz.
>>43741316 This is a debate, not you trying to prevent people from having wild orgies. Provide some reasoning instead of calling names. Instead of helping people to heal you just rip new wounds into everyone.
>>43741351 I think the kids will have an increasing say in this, it is actually the dependance of the child that makes child molestation possible. So it should be linked onto how independent and reasonable children are. Since we can whitness an increase in independence in purchasing decisions of children, the kids will also increasingly demand to decide about other aspects of their lifes.
>>43741631 Every single time I see an Indian flag popping up, I instantly start asking myself if people will tend towards opposing your point by default.
>>43741675 It's legal here and I still don't see myself experimenting with them anytime soon, besides from in virtual reality. I would also feel icky, I know already since I had the same preassumption with prostitutes and it did happen. It was empty and I felt devaluated afterwards.
A relationship that is strong (and socially acceptable, for the wider range of social interaction and situation it allows) always felt best.
>>43741431 12-14 year olds aren't capable of properly taking care of children and even if they did so, they would have to interrupt their studies for several years (and starting again after all that time won't be easy). Also, the same would apply to guys as well (if they don't bail out in most cases as they do now), as they would need to interrupt their studies and start working in order to sustain the children: do you really think that everyone is going to have parents capable of paying for 2-3 grandchildren?
As I said before, 25 as the consensual age would be much better: people would secure their studies and careers, there would be less single parents and less overall people living in poverty (especially niggers); literally everyone would benefit from it (well, except pedos I guess).
>>43741631 >I don't think you should expect 16 year olds to decide whether they want kids in the first place Okay. Just thought I'd throw it out there and what people thought.
However, I will defend my point by saying that we force kids to do things they might not actually have wanted to do if they'd been left to decide it when they were older, because if they waited it would make things a lot harder. We send kids to school because although they might get a job (like a musician or something) that doesn't actually require a formal education. We could just wait until they're 18 and let them decide for themselves whether they want to learn about history/biology/literature/whatever, but we don't because most of them do need schooling. Plus there's a social value to it. Likewise, a large majority of women will want to have kids some day, and it's good for society if they do so.
And I'm not even saying that the government should force girls to get married at fifteen (like they force kids to go to school). I'm simply saying that logically, it would be easier if it was done like that.
>>43741765 You should be able to agree upon that the dependancy of the child is the only thing that defines child molestation or that it cannot consent. Mild froms of pedophilia shouldn't necessarily be an issue, it's really more about actual sexual intercourse, in the context of the child being exposed to shame the society will put up on it, and it's about violent acts that marks the child psyhcologically. These acts should be named as what they are child molestation and child rape.
The term pedophile solely applies to a psychological condition where people are interested in prepuscent children exclusively. When you use the term so inflationary you don't work towards the goal you are openly representing, but belittle child molestation and rape, which isn't necessarily commited by pedophiles.
Stop using that term pedophile. Call child molesters child molesters, rapists rapists. The age range you were discussing, 12-14, pedophiles aren't interested in.
>>43741765 firstly, I'll say that that is such an Italian thing to automatically equate sex to having children. Outside the fiefdom of the Catholic church, there are things like birth control, and people have sex for other reasons than starting a family.
Italy is also behind a lot of other countries when it comes to the percentage of women in the workforce. Underlying your argument is the assumption that the normal thing is for one parent to stay home full time. Waiting until you're old enough to have a secure career is a great idea for men, because they have more money but not the inconvenience of actual childcare, but it's a terrible idea for women because they have to take time off just as they need to be concentrating on their careers.
>>43741999 Many people are too stupid to use birth control, so by rising the consensual age you get rid of the risk; also, most women who have kids between 30-40 already have secured their careers and can be financially independant, so that's really the best age group for having children.
When I watch this and get a boner, people will call me a pedo and put me in the same category as a child rapist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sK28VDhgDo That's belittling child rape, and makes you worsen the situation for many. You wouldn't even allow people to process human urges, not in you, nor in others over your self intimidation and shame and impulsiveness. Keep supressing an issue that is older than humanity, keep a blind eye on the effects of actual child molestation by pointing fingers, keep being a ticking time bomb.
>>43742415 >exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger >exclusive
Just use the correct terms, it might hurt your brain a bit for 2 seconds but it's better for everyone.
Child molesters are often the girl's fathers, who didn't plan a family just to rape it. I think it's bettter to be aware of your possible sexual urges and allowing yourself to process these possibilites that might come awake in you.
Instead of tossing away the problem onto another person.
>>43742530 >primary or exclusives Some people are attracted to both children and adults, but are still considered pedophiles. There is no other specific term that differentiates the partialness from the exclusiveness.
>>43740708 But the thing is many people are in school until around 18 years old. We can't have idiots getting pregnant at 14 years old just because the baby daddy thought he could pull out 100% of the time with no chance of a pregnancy. Not only does it fuck over their parents who have to support both their own kid and then the grandchild, but it fucks over the teens' lives for not being prepared. I'm not saying it's not any better for unprepared adults, but as a teen, education should be top priority, not getting laid.
14. Previous to that a girl's body is just not ready to bear children and there is too much risk involved. Sure girls age at different rates which is why 14 should be held as the standard. By then in nearly all cases the girl should be fine should pregnancy occur.
Males should be held to the same standard simply for consistency. Keep the women from complaining.
Of course, but 25 years is the average to reach full maturity for men. Some 24 years olds might be mature enough to be parents but for making a law you go after the average. 15 years olds (Sweden's AOC) certainly aren't.
I will provide you with perfect reasoning, you can try and debate it, even though the opposition will manage it to counter with impuslive name calling at best:
Kids that get raised authoritarian are more inclined to get into a stranger's car, since the kid is used to follow the orders of an authority.
The child, in this case, isn't able to diffirentiate between a parent, a teacher, or any other grown up. Expecting the child to loyally follow the parent's wish not to get into the stranger's car is also too much. Especially children, and even more so the ones that got raised authoritarian and to follow strict and direct orders, will think emotionally rather than reasonabily. We can observe this behaviour in its extreme in brutally abused children that later develop borderline disorder and are incapable of reasoning to a great extent but are fast to act based on their feelings.
Authoritarianism raises dependant, unable to reason people.
Dependance is always the gateway to abuse.
>>43742753 Heterosexual. Studies show that the general age span people perceive as arousing starts with puberty.
In case you got a problem with child molesters, call them that. They're child molesters, they molest children.
>>43741043 pedophilia has something to do with cultural marxism, and they fact they are pro-depopulation. The elite, will try to "cultural marxism" everything they can, if that help their planes, "forcing" homosexuality make people most of the time not have kids, casual sex with condoms too. Pedophily is part of that too (and will actually become legal, but first they must promote as normal), making sex with animal or dead humans (dont remember wich one of if both) will also be legal on the future.
When you make sex with an animal or a dead human you dont have childrens.
>>43743697 Monkey pls. It was socially acceptable to arrange marriages between 12 y.o. girls and old men all along until 20th century. Evil elite is somehow legalizing pedos while raising the AoC higher and higher. Also, they "depopulated" our planet by over-populating it. Elite works in mysterious ways, huh, master Ape?
>>43743917 1. In the vast majority of cases, autism isn't a "severely crippling mental disability". 2. Autism is rising mainly because of the increased awareness and diagnosis. 3. There is no solid scientific evidence that directly relates autism to parental age. 4. Stop shitposting.
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