>THE SYRIAN GENERAL ARCHIVE
>Contains links to articles/videos/tweets/maps posted in /pol/'s Syria General threads. The archive is updated minimum twice daily and those links are collated into permanent pastebins at the end of each day.
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>Live map, with ticker on the right side
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>Previous Thread >>>>53804209
SAA Reporter Retweeted
Ibrahim Joudeh @Ibra_Joudeh 5h5 hours ago
First Moments of #SAA Southern #Aleppo Offensive Early Today
#Syria #Russia #RuAF
https://youtu.be/--8a4QsiO9Q [Embed] [Embed]
#Syria #Aleppo #SAA Tiger Force Soldier with #ISIS #ISIL Under his boots
>That's the sad thing about Yemen, no side represents the real Yemeni people, all sides are basically warlords warring.
There is no real Yemeni people, what you have is a sectarian war between different groups within Yemen. How can you say there is a Yemeni people when they all view each other as foreigners?
most people that have asked me in question wont even stop out and fight me in the parking lot,after I call them out on it.so If im a cuck most of you internet tough talkers are scared of a cuck
Shia and Sunni praying together after capturing Baiji.
Bruh, you act as if Barzani's/PDK are the only element of Iraqi Kurds that contributed to the succces of the KRG. You should know that that's definitely not true. There are a lot of other politicians.
First of all, at this moment the best (in terms of effectiveness of rule) politicians aren't PDK, the best military strategists DEFINITELY aren't PDK. 90% of the respected generals are not PDK. Economically, the PDK has a lot of leverage, but non-PDK were more innovative in that region, because of the 90's dual administration where the PDK had crowded bordercrossings, and non-PDK didn't.
Are you from Qamishlo?
Don't forget Constantinople lad.
>#US unsure if #Kurds recovered weapons airdropped into #Syria
The face of a man who bitterly regrets his decision to join ISIS.
Download the Extended Timeline mod and play in 2015.
>The face of a man who bitterly regrets his decision to join ISIS.
Basically Iran and Hezbollah kept Assad from collapsing, Iran restructured the whole SAA army to one fitted for this civil war. Then Iran had a deal with Russia to really support Assad in order to remain geo-political allies after the Iran deal was signed.
>Stalemate Israel in 2006
>Not owning islamist shits in Syria 2015
The islamist hate Hezbollah, because they know that Hezbollah is competent, while they hate Assad for his incompetency.
Everyone, this guy is the author of the majority of le liberator face shops in circulation.
No. SAA wasn't losing or winning, the war was pretty much a stalemate.
Now that Russia is on the scene the Syrians have launched some 'offensives' to sure up the front lines and capture high ground in preparation for a real offensive that'll materialise later on.
yes, liberating is a job, its fun but still a job
[spoiler]yчилca нa фoтoшoпe игpaтcя ,типepь coвceм нeтy вpeмeни. кaк тaм тpeyгoльник живeт ?
only 2 or 3 are circulating rest are shit
>What are the Rebels trying to do? It looks like they are about to be cut off. Do they even have a unified command?
Aleppo has been in a stale battle of attrition for years so far with very few gains in territory. The Islamic Front or IF (which is what commands rebel-held Aleppo) has been falling apart with all the Russian airstrikes and recently withdrew all their fighters from Mahattah (which is now being contested by ISIS and SAA. The Rebel grip on Aleppo is starting to weaken, and within a few months, the SAA should capture the whole city with the help of Russian air support. Keep your eyes peeled.
>Bomb-destroyed houses spotted in Syrian locality where Russian warplanes not used
>"Why destroy these buildings? It looks like somebody’s pilots were just training their skills or dropped bombs to report to their command about completed mission,"
Well, US had to bomb something without touching ISIS.
They control almost whole the Euphrates from North Syria towards Baghdad, and almost all towns and cities in the vincinity. They also control a lot of regions of the Tigris towards Baghdad, and some towns and cities in the vincinity. The rest is all desert or depopulated.
But still millions of people live and are trapped in the IS regions.
What are the chances he is pressganged into it you think?
>кaк тaм тpeyгoльник живeт
Кaк вceгдa. Зaхoдит и кopмитcя, пpaвдa peжe yжe вpoдe.
Reminds me of that Ross Kemp show in which he visits police.
One episode he went to Brazil in the Favella's.
He ran accros the street with his cameraman and you could hear a bullet whiz past so close the cameraman was stiffled by fear.
>and within a few months
Considering that Iran is said to be sending troops (which likely would consist of mainly the Quds force), that seems like a rather long time. They will have it under control by the end of the next month
most people don't even know about the houthis beyond "fuggen iranian proxies" when all iran has been proven to do was throw their political support behind them. people don't realize that yemen is one of the most heavily armed countries in the world, and much of the yemeni army defected to them (and thus gave them access to stockpiles of weapons, tanks, tactical missiles etc)
From a Syrian posting on /pol/ from America instead of fighting for his country while his "brethren" are being genocided.
I met some guy from 7alab lately. He told me all cool stories about it.
Do you have some stories about the Sheikh Maqsood district? Or other parts of the city.
I really wish I went to 7alab when I was in Syria in 2002. We went from Damascus > Deir-azzour > Hassakah > Qamishlo
Oh it absolutely is. You should take a look at these maps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rif_Aleppo2.svg#metadata
It shows the state of Aleppo from March 3rd, 2014 all the way to present day.
I honestly wonder why they can manage to be so professional, and the rest of the Arabs can't. Is it the support from Iran, or purely experience from the Lebanese civil war and wars with Israel?
>Have you all already had your cheeky daily wank too the based Sukhoi Su-34 the remover of kebab?
The revolution is hijacked retard. Assad is shit, islamists are shit and ISIS is cancer. The Kurds+allies are good but don't have the support outside of north-Syria. No one should consciously fight in such a fucked up war.
Daniel Stern has put on some weight i see
Sure is easy to post from the comfort of the western world while Iranians, Russians and Chrsitians are dying for your country.
Tbh I hope they hang all the male refugees who'll come back after it's over.
You have two options in the middle-east: A nation state held together by a strong dictator like Assad, or warring tribes who are in a constant state of war with each other. Democracy simply does not work there.
>who'll come back after it's over
It's not my country.
I'm just explaining why your populist WESTERN argument fails to understand the actual facts on the ground. This isn't a convential classical civil war like you frogs have had a lot.
You have a lot of options, the good options just don't get supported by the interfering states and groups.
Your post is also just plain disgusting western Orientalism. You never have been to any middle eastern country except for a holiday Antalya right? Get out of your superiority complex, your argument could be used against early 20th century Europe as well.
>/pol/ shit posts Deus Vult threads for months
>russia declares holy war in Syria
guys, stop it. we are rediscovering magic through memes and its scary.
Kek. Why should I kill people who have nothing to do with the people responsible?
The police are just normal people doing their job, and wanting to kill them because you are dissatisfied with the status quo is pretty childish.
>This isn't a convential classical civil war
>implying most wars aren't about fighting kettle vs pot
>guise I only fighting in wars of specific variety!!1 Stop being so WESTERN for pointing out that a war is a war and there isn't fucking difference
What I'm saying is that no political actor is doing the responsible thing about Syria. No Syrian deserves to die for political goals of interfering states. The first thing we need is de-escalation, ceasefire and a Syrian political debate. Except every side lives under the illusion that it can win, so the war goes on.
But russians aren't crusaders even less catholic latin speakers, educate yourself retard.
An army approved, formal wear friday version available at
SAA Reporter @Syria_Protector 6m6 minutes ago
#ISIS rat under #SAA Tiger forces boots.
requesting liberator edit
Tell me about these options.
Every single attempt has ended in failure, so explain to me what should change that so suddenly.
And please don't respond with communist-tier shit like "my magic brand of democracy just hasn't been tried yet".
And the situation in europe was vastly different: There already existed something resembling nation-states with a strong national identity, so democracy was a lot more realistic than it is in the middle-east.
he probably waits at the train station with a giant refugee welcome flag and thinks he knows something because he knows the internet terrorist 4chan
If you're not ready to die for your country in that kind of situation you're not even a man, you're an apatrid deserter who values himself more than his nation or his people.
Lower than a cockroach.
Thinking in individuals in a civil war is retarded, you're either fighting or you're not.
So all these Syrian men should just fight for Assad huh? Or they should all go fight for Al Nusra? Or Shamiya front, or ISIS, or whatever random militia. The point is that at some points the Syrian civil war will slow down due to lack of fighters. If these Syrians stayed in Syria, that point would take aaaa lot more time.
>Arabs are tribal religious fanatics
the democratic and completely moderate FSA that western analysts now admit doesnt exist is the best option :^)))
4:25 - even interventionalist shills like michael weiss now admit FSA doesnt exist and assad has won
>So all these Syrian men should just fight for Assad huh?
>The point is that at some points the Syrian civil war will slow down due to lack of fighters.
You're more likely to die of age in the time this will ever happen.
>If these Syrians stayed in Syria, that point would take aaaa lot more time.
No. They'd have tipped the scale and hastened the victory.
Yes, it will slow down and Syria will be overtaken by savage allah ackbarking Islamists from all over the world which will genocide all the remaining minorities and destroy all ancient sacred relics.
And the Irish are tribal religious fanatics too. What's your point?
Middle-east after the WW2 also had 'strong states with strongmen', that just led to coups, lost wars, economic stagnation etc. So the strongmen argument is falsified by empirical historical evidence. There goes your theory according to popper.
I have said nothing about gommienism. It is just fallacious to claim stuff about countless unobserved options based on the limited amount of observed options.
My point is that many of the arguments given in these threads plainly suck. We could make something of this thread by properly discussing stuff. That way it's not just useless time consumption.
>ceasefire and a Syrian political debate.
With whom? Do you really think that crazy lunatics that don't care about their own death and are bent on destroying all other cultures for their "god" can be rationally talked with?
Don't forget the robbery raids and refugee and jihad export to neighboring countries, when they'll start running into problems with economy and suchlike. It'd be like "independent Chechnya" all over again, only at grander scale.
So how do you get all of these groups to the negotiating table in your masterplan? Better yet, what could they ever possibly agree upon?
Sure, the fact both the US and the Soviets were fighting proxy wars in the whole middle-east surely has nothing to with the fact that it was unstable as shit, that totally is the same as every single country failling to become a real democracy after the Arab spring, a time in which there were no two super powers using these countries as battlefields.
How about you start with proposing an option that we could discuss instead of complaining about people not doing so?
Who said something about the warring factions? To hell with them. There are waay more Syrians than those, especially educated Syrian's and we need a dialogue of those educated Syrian's, Syrian refugees etc.
I'm just suggesting other scenario's than this useless proxy-war which lost all legitimacy for any future Syria.
aaaaah why is the world full of propaganda-fueled retards
Zeit released an article today featuring this vox video
that's simply wrong in everything it says.
"first shots fired by assad"
"hundreds of iranian officers on the ground"
"obama administration horrified by assad administrations atrocities" which never existed (gas) or are echoed more loudly by moderate memes, real jihadists and also kurds
"US program stall out at first" as in it manages to train and keep 5 people, the rest defect to ISIS/Al Qaeda and take their stuff with them
"assad uses chemical weapons" just NO wtf how do you make a video like this and never even read UN reports
.... holy fucking shit theres so much wrong with this. I'm so incredibly made at mainstream media, i really don't know what to do with this penned up anger. Zeit is supposed to be a format that does deep research and thinking into the things published.
You can propose as many options as you want. They are all useless unless they include a way to either get the warring factions to the table or a way to kill all or most of them off.
>There are waay more Syrians than those, especially educated Syrian's and we need a dialogue of those educated Syrian's, Syrian refugees etc.
So the people who do not matter at all in finding a solution. Well done genius.
The people with guns are the only ones who matter when finding a solution to a conflict. Who gives a damn about what a bunch of defenceless civilians think, they have no negotiating power, they hold no territory.
>Who said something about the warring factions? To hell with them. There are waay more Syrians than those, especially educated Syrian's
Yeah, except it's exactly the opposite and it's to hell with the latter, especially the refugees. Those who are fighting are the only people that MATTER. Discussing things with people who don't want or even can't to take up arms means exactly nothing, as their opinion might as well not exist, if they won't enforce it.
Jesus, it's like you think that if you'll have a cup of tea behind a round table with a couple of philosophers, all militants will just look on that, dump their weapons and go elsewhere.
Hafez's regime was able to do that, Bashar was too incompetent for that and got criticized by the top Iranian generals for his stupidity.
I understand and agree with that. But to overcome this civil war, imo Syria needs a total political reboot. In a perfect world all warring factions would get jailed and beat by a competent UN peace-mission.
According to Tom Cooper, IRIAF tried to keep 60 F-14s operational at any time during the war. But since 1986, this number reduced to 30 F-14s, of which only half were fully mission capable. Overall, Cooper states that Iranian F-14s shot down at least 160 Iraqi aircraft during the Iran-Iraq War, which include 58 MiG-23s, 23 MiG-21s, nine MiG-25s, 33 Dassault Mirage F1s, 23 Su-17s, one Mil Mi-24, five Tu-22s, two MiG-27s, one Dassault Mirage 5, one B-6D, one Aérospatiale Super Frelon, and two unknown aircraft. Despite the circumstances under which the F-14s and their crews had to operate in Iran during the eight-year-long war against Iraq, it is still the premier fighter in the Iranian Air Force. The aircraft continued to operate without any support from AWACS or AEW aircraft, without even a proper support from the Ground Control Intercept (GCI). It faced an enemy that was repeatedly introducing new and more capable fighters, radars, weapons and ECM systems in combat and was supported by no less than three "superpowers" (France, the USA, and the USSR). Their crews were also permanently under heavy pressure from the regime in Tehran. That it proved as successful in combat is a result of strenuous efforts of IRIAF personnel and immense investment of the Iranian economy.
I would say Shiites tend to be more competent then their Sunni counterparts but the Iraqi "special forces" don't hold up to the performance of Hezbollah, Iran and the Houthis (against KSA at least)
So the Houthi Rebels are actually moving into saudi arabia btw ? max kek.
Watch the camera dude @3:25. Danm son.
>So all these Syrian men should just fight for Assad huh?
pretty much yeah. If it was apparent to me,an ignorant western what was going to happen in Syria way back in 2011 it should have been all the more apparent to those on the ground. The very fact that western media pushed against Assad so hard for so long should have told everyone all they needed to know.
depends on what weapons US government supplies them with. let's see if the CIA goes full afghanistan mode and gives them stinger like AA-Manpads just to fuck the russians up.
Iranians are marching
As the German Anon has stated the European nation states have already been in Existance for many Centuries and have a vibrant democratic culture than goes to our core that has developed over hundreds of years and you can't just create that in a few years .Plus Islam is the thing that will stop it happening most likely .Come back in 50 years when the borders are redrawn and islam is dead and it mite work
Fighting in Alepo old city will be a hell on earth, no wonder why the rebels are still holding it.
>let's see if the CIA goes full afghanistan mode and gives them stinger like AA-Manpads just to fuck the russians up
The only place that got 'fucked up' by American supplies to Afghanistan is New York.
Russia lost more people in Afghanistan to traffic accidents than to American Manpads.
What are your guys preferite yt channels outside war ones?
>Hebrew decals on the Saudi armored vehicle
THe US gave the 'rebels' MANPADS straight after Libya.
>Arms and the Manpads: Syrian rebels get anti-aircraft missiles
So fucking mad. I will never forgive the IRA for the way they shaped the perception of my country coming out of the 20th century. Violent fuckheads looking to play hero, with no true understanding of the politics they engaged with. Just as bad as the Islamists today, and a rightful source of national shame.
Finally something I can agree with. But we're still in the imperfect world, remember? In that world the actual clusterfuck came about from external meddling, continues with external support, and if nukes will ever be used, that would mean international consequences for the user too. Now what?
Death, he always wins.
I think that is quite typical in most Arab states.
Yes, everybody who leaves their country in a time of need is and should be considered a traitor.
They should fight for what they believe in, not just go to a country that was built with no help from them and live as leeches.
It's a brutal war, and all those men have done and had done to them and their friends brutal things.
Sincerely hoping the refugees don't bring that shit with them when they come here. Wish they didn't come in the first place.
It's not right. He has the right for it though. Or at least you have zero right to condemn a man that fought to death and probably lost comrades, not having been on his place. Glorious noble generous humane knights exist only in fairy tales. IRL killing or humiliating the enemy, who tried to kill you and would've done the same in your place, is probably the only rewarding stress-blowing thing in the whole prolonged-fight-to-death affair.
>Sincerely hoping the refugees don't bring that shit with them when they come here.
The Kurds and Arabs in the city near me are known for killing each other so I doubt that it is any different in the rest of Europe. You can take them out of the Middle East but you cannot take the Middle East out of them.
An enlightened despot would be the best alternative, too bad Bashar didn't go that path.
You know that a lot of Serbians where in a comparable Syria situation 20 years ago. A lot of them fled as well, and stayed there.
>Hezbollah tarnished its reputation by making sure it still existed
A Sunni dominated Syria would not allow Hezbollah to be supplied by Iran making Assad's survival necessary to Hezbollah's existence.
I do, I was living here then and I still am.
And no, not a lot, not even close to syria numbers fled to EU states, and not a single country in EU accepted them with open arms, more to the point you bombed us again in 99 after that war.
Serbia alone in that war hosted more than 700k refugees, those who fled in europe were more like 10k.
It's not even fucking close dude, look for official numbers.
I agree. Here at home I saw some bitch speaking up dismal hatred against white folk in the local paper. So I wrote a response back. Very responsible and proper. I guess thats the better way to go - write in to your opinion section, with a well structured paper - they should publish
Problem with Sunnis from what I've seen in person is that they don't like orders much. I remember one time our squad had two Sunni tribesmen(not part of the original team) in Dammaj and we came under fire from a 50.cal while moving equipment from a depot to a outpost. We already knew what to do find cover,PK guy lays covering fire and two guys move from cover to cover to get close enough to eliminate hostile fire. Everything went smoothly until our guests decided charge the gun men. Our squad leader kept shouting for them to find cover and I shit you not they screamed:"we will show how the grandsons of bin walid fight"ackbaring all the way. About half an hour later we eliminate the 50.cals crew we found one of them on the side of the road with a piece of shrapnel in the leg and the other died from bleeding out from a bullet wound that hit his abdomen. Tl:Dr Sunnis can't into small unit tactics.
Yes, and i did. but i see no value in linking the original article @ Zeit here. Many newspapers have closed their comment sections for anything related to refugees, russia and syria already because the dispute is very loud and not always rational
this is a youtube scam. they make shit loads of money making legitimate looking videos and botting millions of views for dat der sweet sweet ad revenue.
some people make hundreds of videos of them showing shitty one dollar toys and get hundreds of millions of views. its such an easy scam
>I agree. Here at home I saw some bitch speaking up dismal hatred against white folk in the local paper. So I wrote a response back. Very responsible and proper. I guess thats the better way to go - write in to your opinion section, with a well structured paper - they should publish
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eh brother, it's everywhere in the media. they always start off by saying:
a) Putin promised to bomb ISIS
b) Putin's a lying bitch cause he's not bombing ISIS
BUT, they alway fail to mention that a) is wrong. he said they'd bomb ISIS AND OTHER TERRORISTS. Bombing ISIS at this point would be pointless, since there's barely a frontline with the ground forces (SAA) and also you don't want to fight everyone at once. just logically.
Just heard this podcast in bavarian radio (fuck bavarians - prussian here - radio documentaries can be OK though). they started exactly like this. later they had an 'expert'.
>reporter: so putin is going in without any strategy and will be boged down?
>expert: well no, he knows what he's fighting for and whom with. (blabla Putin evil nonetheless blabla). the US seems to have this problem.
>reporter: so Putin has no real strategy and will be boged down! thank you, that's all for today.
stupid bitch! a reporter shouldn't have an own opinion and force it on other prople. dammit!
I don't think the Syrians who are left will be welcoming back the people who tried to kill them.
Europe, Turkey, the USA, and Saudi Arabia trained them, and the rebels are our problem now.
Sounds like that infamous BBC guy taking phone calls about refugees
God i hate everything. i wish i could go back to being a bluepilled idiot.
there's no place for enlightened despots once other countries start smearing you. Enlightenment matters little if others use the shadows your light casts to blame you.
Assad has done a lot to appease others. he released political prisoners, he let go of basicly ALL of Syrias power (the new constitution allows him as well as the baath party to be voted out of power)... yet still western media cry for him to be strung up on the nearest crane like saddam
Yeah, your problem.
I mean what the fuck Eastern Europe? Why'd you trust us? You had to have known that Uncle Sam's big dick was going to cum in your hair and mess it all up.
Thing is, even though we're fucking you raw without lube in the ass right now, and we already perforated your colon, your politicians love us because they can squeeze a sheckel out of the State Department and our NGOs.
I have no idea what other nations are thinking when they agree to be used by the USA. Our foreign policy is "Fuck 'em as long as possible then dump 'em."
kek im in favour of anything fucking up the sheikhs. i'd prefer glassing them, but after all it's only the rulers doctrine ruining the country. My belief remains the coming generations can be fixed with access to true education, devoid of religious influence.
Turkey's government says they are 360 degree different from ISIS.
Is Turkey an X-Box360?
>Implying everyone in this thread is not a secret Russian or Shia Muslim
don't get me wrong, it's not what I want to see, but believe that the the eternal CIA planners are already packing stuff up.
they desperately want to see some Russian planes downed and coffins returned home.
i'm not sure, if they're sophisticated enough to down a russian plane (I think Gaddhafi had the old soviet stuff), although french and chinese AA manpads have been sighted recently.
I'm having business lessons next to my philosophy ones. And those tell me that pragmatically every strategy can work, and the same strategy can fail in another context. So why are ALL sides still sticking to their failing strategies?
The point is that we can struggle forward supporting one side or another. While there are countless other strategies not being pursued or even thought of, all in name of geo-politics, the new military religion.
I only experienced when I was fighting in Dammaj. But someone on my team kept telling how much he hated tribal life how he once lost his brother in a firefight because some guy from another tribe claimed that he was peaking into his house to look at his wife. Shits crazy.
Oh I mistook you for Romania! My bad.
But let's face it: Belgium is the home of the capitol of the EU and the EU is now an official world rival to the USA so I'd expect that big dick to be aiming your way pretty soon too.
I haven't fought them yet. But from what I see and hear on the news they really seem to be incompetent. No armour with infantry support, retreat way too quickly. I have some friends in Marib who say they never see Saudi/Emirati foot soldiers only ifv and afv drivers and not even lecrecs they told me they're always waaaaay back and never fire. Depend on tribes they paid off and other local bought fighters.
Basically it's because of "enlightened" pussies like this >>53819193 Europe is weak in military sense and relies too much on US for protection against muh "barbarian Russian hordes who just wait for an opportunity to conquer them". They should spend less money on degeneracy and more on military, which should allow them to be a bit more independent.
of course it was also in there. it was an hour long. they mentioned it several times that Putin is fighting the moderates. The expert at some point at least pointed out that loyalties are constantly shifting, but mostly it's this meme.
Of course in TV it's the same. How could I be so blind for years thinking they really research their stuff beforehand with an open mind. silly me.
For real? That's really strange. I really doubt the Sayyid would allow that. I mean what do we have to gain from Syria? That and considering our policies don't extend beyond Yemen.
>some guy from another tribe claimed that he was peaking into his house to look at his wife
>rivaling the US
Never gonna happen. We'll collapse under the weight of our own nationalism, naivete, leftism, and incompetence way before that.
interesting. isn't it a bit dangerous for the jemeites going inside SA? won't americunts interfere at some point to stabalize their precious wahabit extremist saud lackeys? or is the border just arbetrary and on the other side are also the same tribesman living helping you guys?
Funfact: I'm not European.
I'm a political refugee, who grew up in Europe.
My views aren't even comparable to the average dutchman. I'm basically a Kurd that is fed up with the ME, and it's stupid ways.
>Ibf4 go back
I will. Some day.
o they support president al-assad
They must be Russian or Shia.
People who think like that.
4:People who believe everything their government tells them and what they see on CNN,FOX Al-Jazeera & Al-Arabiya
A journalist friend of mine, who was stationed in moscow for a while, once told me that he thought belgium was the only eastern european country in western europe by the way it functions. i keked. just a joke, but some truth to it - still holding the title of country longest running without government. bravo. speaks volumes about your capabilities in improvizing - just like in the east.
kek - my captcha related
>they're always waaaaay back and never fire. Depend on tribes they paid off and other local bought fighters.
that's what i thought.
So, if there is ever an uprising in SA or returning islamists backed by some rich SA families try to take up arms - everything will be over very quickly, since the army is in no fighting condition.
so tribes can be bought off and stuff. how can you ever trust anybody in your vicinity, when everybody is basically up for sale? no wonder there are just barely functioning arabic states.
>Never gonna happen. We'll collapse under the weight of our own nationalism, naivete, leftism, and incompetence way before that.
I know, but I suspect we will help the process along anyway. Look at the new Greek government and tell me that you don't see the unnatural US influence and involvement there.
But yeah, you guys are fucked. If the fugees don't rape you all to death the EU army (it's coming!!!!!!!!!) will!