Not to say that MacArthur isn't overrated, but he doesn't have nearly the same level of popular fame that Rommel does. If you ask 20 random people on the street who MacArthur ones, I'd guess no more than 3 of them would have heard of him, and if they have, they remember something or other about Korea.
Eisenhower >Total incompetent fag that MacArthur wanted demoted and removed from Pacific Forces. Instead of demotion for incompetence was transferred to be Supreme commander allied forces due to the 'special' relationship he had with that Jewish Senator since a young cadet at WestPoint where he was known as the Swedish Jew
>>53823143 I hear way more about MacArthur than I ever heard about Rommel. I was forced to learn all kinds of shit about MacArthur, but I never learned anything about Rommel that I didn't learn on my own time. There's probably a few reasons for that, like my not being German and the fact that I live in Virginia, where half the shit in Norfolk is named after MacArthur.
>>53823474 This. He was a shit writer too (assuming he didn't just get some scribe to write the Gallic Wars for him). Simple, boring Latin made for all the dumbshit plebs back in Rome. Because it's so stupid simple, shitty Classics teachers have used the Gallic Wars to teach beginners for years.
tl;dr IMO Caesar not only killed the Republic but also killed the Latin language.
>>53822894 Rommel did an outstanding job with what he had to work with. Being a good general is mostly being realistic.
The whole time he was in North Africa he received app. 1,500 replacement troops rated as 1-A. Most of them were twos and even 3s and 4s. The Germans captured some Mongolians and Koreans around Moscow, put them in German uniforms and sent them to Rommel as 'reinforcements'. Germany's Eastern Front always had priority for men and material over the other fronts, except for June18-28, 1944.
>>53826790 Nah, he's most remembered as a traitor to the Reich and a traitor to his Fuehrer; a man who was given the option of honorable suicide even though he IN NO WAY deserved it. He should've been hung in Flossenberg with all of the other TRAITORS.
Rommel's problem wasn't a lack of skill, it was the fact that Hitler went full retard and invaded the Soviet Union. Operation Barbarossa became such a drain on Germany that while the troops in the East were getting Panthers, Rommel had to make do with PzKpfw IIs and IIIs. He even remarked that the fucking General Lee tank outclassed their shit, and that tank wasn't exactly the highlight of America's wartime tank production. The fact that he actually managed to fight so long with shitty scraps and leftovers is a testament to how brilliant he was. In the end he simply didn't have enough manpower and effective armor to beat the Allies in North Africa.
>>53822894 >owes his rank entirely to hitler >almost fucked up in france 1940 >almost fucked up the moment he arrived in africa >fucked up in africa The shit happening in Normandy was partially his fault too. Overrated to a T.
>Ignored orders from his superiors including Truman and Roosevelt
>Would often promote soldiers based on how loyal they were to the general
>Didn't let Australians on his staff during the Pacific Campaign despite having both the home field advantage and lots of combat experience
>Bad boss to anyone he thought was under-performing, even if they weren't. MacArthur rarely approached the front lines, which meant he had no conception of the horrific New Guinea terrain, which meant he thought his men were slackers when they were literally hung up on mountains and bunkers. On at least two occasions, commanders were sacked right at the point where they were about to succeed, and their replacements got all the credit.
>The Bonus Army was an assemblage of several World War I veterans, their families and others, who gathered in Washington, D.C., in the spring and summer of 1932, to demand early cash-payment redemption of their service certificates. Herbert Hoover ordered MacArthur to disperse the Bonus Army to which he complied by sending in tanks to break it up injuring hundreds
>It got to a point where MacArthur tried to use nuclear weapons without the president's permission to continue the assault on China druing the Korean War, via the Joint Chiefs of Staff
>In exchange for acquisition of the information gained in the studies of the biological warfare, MacArthur granted immunity to Shiro Ishii's Unit 731; who conducted lethal human experimentation during the Sino-Japanese War. None of those guys were ever tried for war crimes, largely due to MacArthur.
>He also promoted himself aggressively to get a Medal of Honor, even going so far as to recommend himself for one, his Medal of Honor should never have been awarded for "Defense of the Philippines" because the Philippines fell to Japan, and he did not personally see or engage in combat during the battle, instead being evacuated as soon as possible.
>>53827509 This so much. When I hear a Soviet circle jerker mention Zhukov and "tactical art" in the same sentence I just have to laugh. The snow slav did nothing more than throw men and material into the meatgrinder until it broke.
>>53829130 The best part is from Midway on a literal retard could have easily won the Pacific theatre given that it was entirely island hopping and the US had complete naval superiority. Every land battle the US outnumbered the out of supply nips ten to one. The credit for that entire war should have been given to your navy.
>>53831667 MacArthur wasnt involved in midway. That was a US Navy operation. Most of the island hopping through the eastern side of the pacific were Navy/Marine operations. Macathur was relegated to chasing the japs by thrusting north through Papua new Guinea.
The US Navy were really running the pacific theatre. MacArthur was relegated to being second tier and his army had to rely on being supplied and fed Australia for material goods whilst the Navy got priority from the US pentagon
>>53833494 Kind of sad that Nimitz was not given superstar status, even though he pretty much won the war in the Pacific. Also props to Vandegrift for making MacArthur look like an even bigger assclown than he already was.
>>53836605 >at his first battle the Austrians break through the Prussian flank and expecting defeat he flees the field >the Prussian line infantry don't even give a shit and just turn on the flankers, rout them and then the rest of the Austrians He was a pretty decent monarch but he was lucky his father left him with such a disciplined army.
So, I've always wondered about this: Was Robert E. Lee really a great general or was he great because he really fought against a succession of really very poor Union generals until Grant.
Up until Lee met Grant, he had victory after victory. When grant came East, Lee started to lose and the war bogged down into an attrition slogging match. That suggests both generals were evenly matched.
>Lee wasn't that great. His opponents were bad leaders.
You can't be serious. The only way the Union could beat him was sending their guys to get killed and hope Lee ran out of bullets. Chancellorsville? Fredericksburg? The Wilderness? Cold Harbor? Fought an army twice his size to a draw at Antietam?
In fact, if it weren't for fucking Ewell he would have won Gettysburg too.
Rommel takes the cake. He's held up by the West because he "wasn't a Nazi" and was a nice man who didn't execute Jews or something, but Rommel was no genius. He's Germany scraping a barrel for heroes who aren't wearing Sig runes or Swastikas.
>>53827509 > lied about his campaigns against the Japanese to make himself look better > surrounded by other incompetents due to the purges > was favoured because the other good Soviet general was a Pole and Stalin wasn't too fond of them
If you'd put competent generals in command of the Soviet Union WW2 would have ended in 1943 or early '44 and I'm a fucking Soviet circle jerker.
you are nigger ignorant. his island hopping campaign liberated the pacific, and then retook the Philippines, then brought the Japs to their knees. After the war, he not only led Japan into prosperity, he then BTFO the chinks and n koreans.
He was removed by the giant pussy Truman because he wanted more freedom to nuke those faggot subhumans into the stone age. He got fired and now China is a superpower.
well that's because Manstein was a pure genious. After Stalingrad Hitler told him he had to plug the front and get Kleist out of the Caucasus and he had to do it with like some Italians, some Rumanians and whatever was left of Hoth's panzers.
He was an egotistical narcissistic cunt that bossed everyone around and refused to take anyone's advice.
He pardoned Unit 731 even after all the fucked up shit they did in return for info on biological warfare.
He was extremely vicious towards the Navy (his allies), especially in his deliberate dropping of Marines deep into enemy lines without support.
He set tanks against a bunch WW1 vets because they wanted their promised benefits even after being asked by Hoover to remove them peacefully
He also promoted himself to get a Medal of Honor, even going so far as to recommend himself for one after a mission. Quite a few people feel that his Medal of Honor should never have been awarded for "Defense of the Philippines" because the Philippines fell
Quite a few people felt that he should not have been decorated at all after the fall of the Philippines, and would have preferred to see him court-martialed for incompetence. Eisenhower himself blocked efforts to be awarded his own Medal of Honor at the end of the war, precisely because he had not been in combat, and he regarded the Medal as something to be awarded only for actions under fire. Dougie knew he was stepping onto very thin ice regarding the Medal, and at the award ceremony he made a comment about only accepting it in recognition for the valiant efforts of the men under his command. In short, Doug knew he didn't deserve the Medal, but accepted it anyway. He's on record as stating, early in his career, that he was willing to sell his soul for the Medal of Honor.
He tried to bypass his superior officer to use nukes and start World War 3 over a limited war
Good Ol' Dugout Doug truly America's greatest general
To Quote Truman:
"I fired him because he wouldn't respect the authority of the President. I didn't fire him because he was a dumb son-of-a-bitch, although he was, but that's not against the law for Generals. If if was, half to three-quarters of them would be behind bars."
German officer ate with their men and were taught to lead from the front , and be replaced by the next man up if they were killed . The Versailes treaty limite them after WWI to 100,000 , they picked the absolute cream of the officirer Corp and a few seargants . Few officers today have the honor and courage to lead from the front !
>>53837351 >If you'd put competent generals in command of the Soviet Union WW2 Funnily enough it was actually a Soviet marshal I think who first conceptualized what would become blitzkrieg during the Spanish civil war but he was then taken back to Moscow and executed in the purges so every other officer ignored his ideas and they continued to use their Russian armour in Spain with hilarious levels of ineffectiveness.
>>53823743 Lee did good in battles but that's partly because he was fighting against shit tier Union Generals like McClellan who was too much of a coddler to risk sending out his full army unless he had at least twice as many men as the rebels... and even then he would only send out small parts of them.
Then Burnside at the Battle of Fredericksburg who for all anyone knows must have been trying to do pic related when he sent a handful of divisions marching up a hill towards a rebel defensive line that had most of the rebel army stacked up behind.
>>53840708 Another stupid habit about Lee was that while most of the time he was a clever planner, whenever he ran up against something he couldn't go around he simply tried to use brute force which never worked.
>>53837362 Jackson was good at mobilizing and was a fairly good commander when his Autism wasn't acting up.
>>53841185 The Island hopping campaign was the only campaign really possible, the first islands had to be taken back to reassure Australia that the Japs weren't going to invade any day now and it would be idiotic to simply send the entire navy directly at Japan, Japan's entire strategy was to expect us to be that retarded and then pick us apart from each island as we passed them.
Henry V was one of the luckiest generals. He adopted a purely defensive stance at Agincourt since he had forests on both flanks and retarded French nobles took the bait.
The French Knights charged across a rain soaked field. English Longbowmen just shot high to hit the horses where the armour didn't cover them which caused them to panic and double back. This turned the field into a swamp which the French decided to try and cross on foot, which resulted in mass drownings because if you fell down in armour you weren't getting up. The only French to reach English lines were exhausted and easily captured.
He basically saw retarded French people commit mass suicide and gets passed off as great general who had mastered command of the magical 120 arrows a second, armour piercing Longbow.
Petraeus. He may have fallen from grace but he got so much credit for "the surge" and how we won in Iraq. He basically just paid off the insurgency with hundreds of millions and gave them all jobs in the new regime. As soon as America pulled out they all joined isis and took all the money and expensive equipment with them.
>the French should've charged their cavalry through the forests lol :) >swampy weather was something the cavalry weren't trained for lol :) >bodkin arrows didn't exist lol :) >longbowmen weren't literally trained to fire plenty per minute and kept their arrows point first in the mud to grab them without fussing ;p Uneducated, truly, also ask yourself why you're convinced that there were only longbows and not footmen. Henry V knew what he was doing.
Rommel was a good leader, however his association with Hitler definetly lead to him being over promoted. Read up on some of his previous adventures in WWI and his teachings during the between WWs. Good stuff, absolutely officer worthy, but I don't think he had the greatest ability for a wide view when it came to war.
>>53822894 >Erwin Rommel >overrated >>53823279 Eisenhower didn't have the balls Patton had. I'm sure if Patton avoided death long enough till Eisenhower got elected president he could have kicked Eisenhower's ass into action on a number of things.
>>53822894 >Rommel >saved thousands of lives on both sides in north africa >lead by example >took poland and much of north africa >disliked hitler for making bad decisions >defied hitler and saved the entire Africakorps Okay kiddo, name a more ballsy general. >you cant, Rommel was usually a mile ahead of the rest of his troops.
>Cross the Alps with some shitty elephants >Most of the army actually died in the crossing >Buy off mercenaries in Italy >Plunder some towns with said mercenaries >Scipio lands in Carthage and forces you back home >Scipio BLOWS YOU THE FUCK OUT in the Battle of Zama with a much smaller force >Your country is defeated and ruined forever, it never truly recovers >Somehow you end up as a famous general rather than the guy who defeated you
Who the fuck cares? No ... really... I'm curious. It's like the friggin furry fetish or pony whatever thing. Generals? They suck dick until promoted. Big fucking deal. Also. .. .Napoleon , just to keep this shit thread going
>>53829841 He was an arrogant asshole, and his troops hated him for it, but, he was known to frequently personally evaluate forward positions, often in locations with active jap sniper fire. He saved tens of thousands of Allied lives with his "Hit'em where the ain't" philosophy. He conquered an area equal to Normandy to Budapest in just over a year with a fraction of the casualties of other generals. Always remember: Bloodbathes are hallowed (think Iwo Jima); buttfucking the enemy with little loss of life is quickly forgotten.
>>53829085 Actually it was not his fault. Hitler was convinced the landing was coming at the Pas De Calais and refused to allow Rommel to pull more armor into Normandy. On the day of the attacks Hitler slept in until 2pm and Rommel did not have the authority to shift the armor meaning things ground to a halt.
The only mistake Rommel really made was assuming the Americans would need to capture a deepwater port.
>>53842589 >>53835923 Sun Tzu is the sole reason Wu became one of the 5 strongest states in Spring and Autumn period. He led Wu's army to beat Chu, a state 2 times bigger than Wu, and captured its capital.
http://www.historynet.com/the-greatest-german-general-no-one-ever-heard-of.htm >Balck, who ended the war as a General der Panzertruppe (equivalent to a three-star general in the U.S. Army), is today virtually unknown except to the most serious students of World War II. Yet in three short weeks his lone panzer division virtually destroyed the entire Soviet Fifth Tank Army. The odds he faced were scarcely short of incredible: the Soviets commanded a local superiority of 7:1 in tanks, 11:1 in infantry, and 20:1 in a local superiority of 7:1 in tanks, 11:1 in infantry, and 20:1 in artillery. But Balck, leading from the front, reacting instantly to each enemy thrust, repeatedly parried, surprised, and wiped out superior Soviet detachments. Over the next few months his division would rack up an astonishing one thousand enemy tank kills. For this and other achievements Balck would be one of only twenty-seven officers in the entire war—Erwin Rommel was another—to receive the Knight’s Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords, and Diamonds, the equivalent of an American receiving two, or even three, Medals of Honor.
>>53845063 Hitler-kun was pretty damn kawaii, I wish I could have sat in on one of his 3am pervitin fueled General Staff Meeting/chatting sessions. He was also a decent planner/tactician. " Adolf Hitler himself conceived a plan to take over the fort by getting men onto it by using gliders to overcome the problem of concentrating an airdrop on a small target, and utilizing the new top secret shaped charge (also called "hollow charge") bombs to penetrate the cupolas."
>>53845530 He buttfucked the gooks until China entered the war, and that caught EVERYBODY off guard. Oh yea, and here's a little known fact: Two British members of the Allied council conducting the war were spying for China. They knew MacArthur's every move before he did it. It wasn't until he started improvising from the front that he stopped the Chinese advance. Not to shabby. Tell me about all those great Canadian generals, Canabro.
Also was in his sixties at the time. Thirty years before he'd been leading infantry attacks in France with the 42nd Division carrying a damn stick, not even a pistol. A couple of his DSCs were for some stupidly brave shit.
>>53847283 Absolutely. Read about his actions in Mexico. He was blowing spics away with a fucking pistol while doing lone reconnaissance. He took so many personal chances, some of his staff thought he exposed himself to enemy fire just to show off. The Dugout Doug thing started as an Army thing that the Marines took the ball and ran with it. They were pissed that the army was more successful with a fraction of the lives. That being said, he really did fuck up right after Pearl Harbor. Even though the Filipinos were against increasing American military presence because they thought it would provoke Japan, Mac should told them to fuck off and turn the Philippines in to a fortress.
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