Hi /pol/. This is /liberal/ general. A thread specifically for liberal members of the 4chan community to discuss liberalism and other political topics.
more like you have no idea what liberal means.
here have some easy to understand education for your dumb burgerlord mind, you massive cuck :^)
seriously fuck progressives for literally robbing the word liberal and the left for them selves
This board is known for believing the world is entirely puppeted by joos and wishing for the world to end because they see a fag with a wedding ring. This board is just about the most mentally ill board on 4chan, which is a bit like being the craziest person at the mental hospital. You have no place to call others mentally ill.
FUCK YOU LIBERAL PUSSIES. FUCK YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH. SWEAR TO GOD WANT TO KILL ALL YOU WEAK FAGGOTS. KEEP DESTROYING WHAT MAKES US STRONG, OUR TRADITIONS AND HISTORY. GO FUCK YOURSELF.
The world is actually run by Zionist Jews, though.
No one who's got the mental capacity above that of a chimp has a problem with fags marrying though, other than the fact that government shouldn't be involved in it.
Yes, it is. Banks run economies, banks are administrated and owned by Zionist Jews. They own the media conglomerates, they own powerful corporations. Not all, of course, but a disproportionate amount.
You need to read more.
Is that why every single mainstream politician and political party in the Western world panders to the ADL and Israel? Why we went into Libya and Syria for literally no reason other than to destabilize the country and Westernize them? We did it in Iran with the Shah, we tried hundreds of times in Cuba, failed to do so in Nicaragua as well.
Like I said, you need to read more. It doesn't mean every Jew walking down the street is in on it, or that they should all be genocided. But, a cabal of Zionist Jews runs the Western world. Facts are facts.
RAND PAUL 2016
MAKE THE GOVERNMENT OBEY THE CONSTITUTION AGAIN
I have a question that you have to answer.
I just read an article about voter ID and all the liberals there were so outraged about voter ID and Alabama closing some DMVs that they are calling it a crime against humanity and roadblocking democracy and Jim Crow law shit.
I don't get it man. I also read that the DMVs that were closed will really mostly affect white people by a margin that even if black people are more poor there would still be more whites left without being able to vote. So the charge of racism doesn't make sense.
Also how is this such a crime to democracy when other countries have voter Id laws too? Are some of those countries failed democracies or shitty democracies?
Poor blacks (maybe) will not get to vote this year and that's a human rights crime and we live in a backwards undemocratic shithole but all the times a homeless dirt poor person in California can't vote it's not because at least in California there aren't voter ID laws?
And all the hand wringing about black people being so poor and they can't afford cars or gas to cross to another county to get their Ids. I can't take that kind of phony outrage seriously. If people really care this much about this why aren't they setting time and money aside to cross counties and get their IDs? I mean it's such a crime that people can't vote (they obviously can if they put more effort into it) but all anyone is willing to do is curse Alabama on the internet?
Idk I made a thread about this but no one will ever see it.
What exactly is a fascist? I use to think i was a libertarian but I completely disagree with their economic views I agree with their views on foreign policy and isolationism but I think the economy needs to be regulated like Bernie Sanders wants to stop rich assholes from dominating all the wealth they currently are in america
...Making the government obey the constitution is one of the foundations of libertarianism. The constitution and bill of rights were put in place so that if obeyed by the government, America would never see the darkness of tyranny and it's people would remain free.
Rand isn't a libertarian, he's a paleoconservative. Regardless, libertarians in the United States are minarchists, not anarchists. The law of the land is laid out in the consitution, with a system in place to modify it if the citizenry agree. So yes, we want you to obey it.
I'm not familiar with Franco-era Spain or Mussolini's Italy, but as far as Hitler is concerned it's a half and half. Hitler nationalized industries like authoritarian socialists do, but only industries like defense companies and the like. Small businesses such as coffee shops, restaurants, grocers, were still privately owned, but state regulated.
Someone who's actually a fascist could probably go more in depth for you.
Democrats rail against voter ID laws because they want to make election fraud easier. Its as simple as that. All the "poor minorities" shit is after-the-fact justification.
Democrats (liberals especially) don't want to appeal to the people and win others over with ideas. Instead they fight for voter fraud and importation of millions of gibsmedats voters. They don't care if they bankrupt the country in the process, as long as they get into power and look like they care about the poor.
we post to make cuckservatives cringe
Bernie Sanders scares me. I'm a liberal and even I think he goes a little too far. Listen to what he says here.
Right wingers getting BTFO today.
Press F to pay respects...
And high taxes.
What if i have really highTaxes
Does that mean i get AMAZING SOCIALISM?
>Guess what happens when you run out of money to tax.
That never happens though. When the average people have more money in their pockets guess what THEY SPEND IT. When a rich person has more money in their pockets they store it away in the Caymans and thus they don't circulate that money in the economy.
The only solution to our problems is the raise taxes. Bush cut taxes and took us into two illegal wars and passed Medicare Part D without paying for it. You can't do that conservatards.
Conservatards - Big government, but DON'T PAY FOR IT
>The only solution to our problems is the raise taxes.
I'm sure the rich will adore that idea.
Except thats bullshit, have you got grade A autism by any chance?
Who the fuck is going to go out and spend more money when they have to work 3 fucking jobs just to pay for ridiculously high taxes for some fat land whale to do her Equality degree at college.
Pro tip- No one.
Conservatives actually bring lower taxes and get the economy growing again.
>I wouldn't fuck those who pay 84% of income tax.
Nice source faggot. Did you get that info from Koch industries or the Heritage foundation or Faux News?
>pay for ridiculously high taxes
When you have taxes you get:
Free paid leave
Free sick leave
I think we should have a maximum tax of 100% on 1 million dollars. Nobody should be billionaires.
>FUCK THE RICH
the other way around son, the rich fuck you.
don't mix it up, they either leave you to die or you suck their cock in economy, they have the power to turn a country into Uganda. So really fucking with le merchant and his clique of rich fucks is the best to ruin everything.
Are you going to bullshit me and say the rich don't pay most of the income tax?
>When you have taxes you get:
Free paid leave
Free sick leave
>Actually believing this will work
>75% Money actually goes into funding every social welfare program for niggers and spics.
>I think we should have a maximum tax of 100% on 1 million dollars. Nobody should be billionaires.
Yep, sounds like good old socialism, fuck people who aspire to do well in their lives.
Hitler was an amazing leader for the German Reich. Historians won't mention that because of the Holocaust, but you've got to give credit where it's due. Hitler turned Germany from having the worst economic depression in modern history to being the most powerful single nation in the world, and he did it in 3-4 years.
I just don't agree with authoritarianism or genocide due to the rarity of someone worthy of being a dictator. Those who want to be the dictator don't deserve it, and those that deserve it never want it in almost every scenario. Sacrificing liberty for those results isn't worth it to me, but plenty on this board disagree.
No shit they end up paying the biggest portion, they have way fucking more of the total money. It's not even fucking close.
>Are you going to bullshit me and say the rich don't pay most of the income tax?
They should pay way more than they should.
100% tax on one million would mean no more *millionaires*. Not billionaires, cuckzilla.
But there would certainly be no more millionaires in your country or wherever such a thing is miraculously implemented; China would be more than welcoming to expats with huge bank accounts.
implying those are needed if the wealth is well spread
is this a joke? Enjoy your sick distortion to the economy.
>Free paid leave
i think you're confused
>Nobody should be billionaires.
Nobody should be billionaires for a long time unless they invest their money and see it return to them through their smart investements. fix'd
>Nobody should be billionaires
>Nobody should be successful
Off yourself. You wouldn't be saying that if you were rich, you're just a gibsmedat dipshit who unironically thinks that he's part of MUH OPPRESSED PROLETARIAT. The fact that you have the time to fuck around on an anime imageboard shows that you're not.
Ineffective and tangled up in bureaucracy.
Rendering it about as useful as a highschool diploma.
>Free paid leave
Free sick leave
Those are company policies. Taxes don't go into play here you idiot.
If you cared so much about the people, you'd support job growth, but I can't really expect much from a child who never thinks about the longterm.
>No we just believe everyone should do well.
Except that isn't actually feasible, trying to make a society that's completely equal only goes to eventually fail, history has already shown.
Actual liberal here. Nice trolling stormfags and anarchists. Let me ask you this: does anyone actually believe that the government doesn't have enough money/power to allow everyone to live for free? With the national GDP the government could literally house and feed every person in America. Yes minorities included. Enjoy being a corporate dicksucker wageslave for life, when we all could actually live for free in utopia. Think outside the box of capitalism and realize that money is just an unnatural human construct, and the government has the power to simply make enough of it for everyone, so that no one has to work. Just use robots for farms and grocery stores and your good to go.
1984 called, it wants its rhetoric back.
>So you really believe life would be better under a "benevolent" global state that dictated where people live and what they can do is freedom?
Yes. Not everyone is a anarchist shill like you.
>wants to have a global government
>tells others they're slaves
Yes, we do believe the government doesn't have enough money, and we damned sure believe it shouldn't have enough power. See our current debt for more details:
ITT: libertards believing they can tax the rich without risking them leaving the country, evading taxes or simply bribing people.
>he doesn't believe what I do so he must be an anarchist
Not wanting a global government does not make me an anarchist.
Your political opinions trace their roots to the first revolutionary congress. You know, the one where the anarchists and communists were allied for global revolution.
You seek to radically change the social and economic structure via an egalitarian revolution, where we are all forced to be the same because you can't hang.
You are a communist.
Orwell also supported the second amendment, and last I checked, Democrats don't. Nice try, faggot.
>implying I'm a Republicuck
At this point, we all know you can't answer anything we throw at you without sounding like a complete fucking moron. Props though for the effort, maybe you can put it to good use when you start being a functioning member of society.
You know you've hit rock bottom when you quote 1984. No damage control is going to help you now.
Democrats aren't socialists Faux News watcher.
>implying Jesus Christ was a socialist of any kind
You're about as much of a theologian as I am a welfare leech. Save yourself the effort and don't let words out of your mouth that you don't know anything about.
>Faux News watcher
That's a heavy implication there, friend. Your memes are utter shit tbh, mind curbing your attempts?
>Democrats aren't socialists
Then what the hell is Bernie Sanders?
The idiots Democrat voters elect into power certainly aren't socialists, yet the voterbase happens to have a plethora of them. Again, nice try.
>muh faux news meme
You are more misguided than the people you despise. How does that make you feel?
1980 - Depository_Institutions_Deregulation_and_Monetary_Control_Act (J. Carter, followed by S&L Crisis, 5000 convictions, RTC)
1981 - Executive Order 12287, (R. Reagan, removed price controls on Petrol)
1992 - Energy Policy Act (H.W. Bush)
1994 - Fast Track Authority to Approve WTO Creation (W. Clinton)
1994 - NAFTA, Deregulation of Trade, 3 Nations (W. Clinton)
1996 - Energy Deregulation (W. Clinton, followed by ENRON Scandal)
1996 - Telecommunications Act (W. Clinton, cross ownership)
1999 - Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act (Phil Gramm, W. Clinton, followed by 2008 Financial Crisis)
1999 - bombing campaign in Kosovo (W. Clinton, over 60 days)
2000 - Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (P. Gramm, W. Clinton, derivatives)
2002 - McCain–Feingold Act (G.W. Bush, Campaign Finance, soft money unlimited)
2005 - Energy Policy Act (G.W. Bush, subsidies, excluded clean air Water acts)
2009 - 2014 Continuing Resolutions in which Congress gives up Budget Powers
2010 - Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (money is free speech for corps)
2011 - US combat in Libya (B Obama, over 60 days)
- (Laissez-faire economic policies)
Your Joking right, most real liberal's have fled that Marxist shit-hole you call Democrat's. As most real conservative's have also fled the Republican's Jew worshiping Zionist bs.
And both parties barrow extensively from Jewish bank's so they win no matter what...
He was independent for decades and hopped on the Democrat campaign trail to get mainstream attention. By your logic the entire Republican party are socialists too since Trump wants universal healthcare.
Maybe you should stick to your own country's politics.
No it isn't, for a couple reasons.
a communist society is classless by definition, so there are no rich to be taxed 100%. Also, a full-blown Communist society wouldn't be able to carry some central governing body or class, so there is no body to levy and collect taxes. On top of that, there is no private property to be taxed anyways.
Liberals always will have the potency to be leftists, it's in the nature of the essence that they are made of.
Also fuck you OP.
Oh boy, seems like the Soviet Union wasn't "true communism" then, huh?
Here's the thing guv, I know it's an unattainable pipe dream, but all of those countries who called themselves communist were performing what they saw to be the methods to achieve true communism. How do you create a classless society? Destroy the classes. Make sure no one is rich enough to be their own class, just bring everyone down. Elevation or raising-the-standard-of-living wasn't in their dictionaries, but that's beside the point. The idea of communism has become so diluted by stupid saps who bought into it that their mistakes became associated with it, so it's not too far of a stretch to say that their methods were "communist". They were employed by people who called themselves Communist, who genuinely believed themselves to be Communist.
why do you fucks push your shit nationally? why don't you leave people in red states alone? if you want to live in a democratic socialist utopia, move to one of the many blue states and leave us alone.
Stalin and Lenin had begun working toward implementing communism, and that was the stated goal, but they hadn't fully achieved it, and indeed couldn't before the dissolution of the Soviet Union. A few obstacles hindered them, namely a failure to internationalize, though this can in part be attributed to opposition from Western powers. Also, Lenin's Vanguard theory was effective for the dictatorship of the Proletariat, however, no plan was put into place to phase into a Communist Union, and so the DotP was prolonged and ultimately lead to the demise of the Soviet Union.
Also, the Shinmin Region, Free Territory, and Chiapas are just a few societies that began the road to Communism quite successfully, Chiapas is still functioning today, though it is more a collective of indigenous populations, so not comparable to Western urbanized zones.
Also, I'm not sure what the purpose of your rant was. The idea behind Communism is that capitalism will create a glut of resources, to the point that there is simply no reason to maintain a system that enforces scarcity and competition, and thus Communism would be a natural consequence. Perhaps we will reach that point, perhaps we never will. However, this ties back to the fact that Communism is commonly implemented in 3rd world nations, because these countries generally lack the means to actually implement a Communist structure, so they eventually are doomed for failure, save for a few outliers, such as those I listed above, Marinaleda, Sankara's Burkina Faso, and Serbia under Tito
No needto deport the mexicans. Anons, hear me out.
What I propose is a level of political autonomy, one in which policing of our neighborhoods and accociated high negro population areas is done by minority Police, mostly Black/Hispanic officers. 2nd- We are allowed a consumer group. One in which we can petition and have blacks both purchase and boycott products made to cater to our audience.
3rd- Tax cuts and Business loans for African American businesses. This is to help curb unemployment and keep Negroes off the street.
4th- A seperate justice system independent of What America currently uses. One ran by peers and elected officials representative of the community, there may be no color barrier to elected officials.
5th- Reduced sentencing for non violent crime offenders.
6th- Segregated Schools by gender/open policing of minors in schools.
7th- Military school for Youth that repeatedly get into trouble at a young age
C'mon now this is alot better than just handing us money.
Honestly, if you aren't a classic liberal, you're probably a retard who has never taken an economics class, but still believe you're capable of rational economic thought. Obviously that's nonsense and should make you feel bad.
>Also, I'm not sure what the purpose of your rant was.
It was to point out the fact that people who considered themselves Communist employed methods such as taking everything the rich had in order to create a classless society, m8.
>The idea behind Communism is that capitalism will create a glut of resources, to the point that there is simply no reason to maintain a system that enforces scarcity and competition, and thus Communism would be a natural consequence.
Impossible, since bad people will always play idealists for fools and take over.
>However, this ties back to the fact that Communism is commonly implemented in 3rd world nations
You'd have to literally regress to a third world status for Communism to work. Tell me something I don't know.
>implying socialism is the same as communism
Come on, guv. I thought we're talking about a pipe dream, not something that is slightly feasible.
In my Marxist economics course we learned all about the failures of classical liberalism. Supply-side and conservative economics relies on basic principles of microeconomics, once you understand macroeconomics and get into socioeconomic drivers and patterns you understand it's a complex convoluted mess with no easy fix.
You're a proud statist. Statist totalitarianism is not liberal. You likely don't realize the actual position you hold. It's very well documented in history. Far from something new or progressive.
Total--Interest on the Public Debt, Table 5 Monthly Treasury Report
2014 Total--Interest on the Public Debt = $429.568 Billion
2013 Total--Interest on the Public Debt = $415.670 Billion
2003 Total--Interest on the Public Debt = $318.149 Billion
2002 Total--Interest on the Public Debt = $332.537 Billion
2001 Total--Interest on the Public Debt = $359.508 Billion
2000 Total--Interest on the Public Debt = $362.118 Billion
1999 Total--Interest on the Public Debt = $353.511 Billion
1998 Total--Interest on the Public Debt = $363.824 Billion
If OMB only counts debt held by the Public, then maybe that is what they are counting. We have $18 T in Debt.
And how much of US Federal Debt is held by Foreigners?
Federal Debt Held by Foreign & International Investors
2015:Q2: 6,175.2 Billions of Dollars (+ see more)
Quarterly, End of Period, Not Seasonally Adjusted, FDHBFIN, Updated: 2015-08-27 9:16 AM CDT
Federal Debt Held by Foreign & International Investors
2015:Q2: $6.18 Trillions Dollars,
Quarterly, End of Period, Not Seasonally
Adjusted, FDHBFIN, Updated: 2015-08-27 9:16 AM CDT
And how much property or assets are held by Foreigners, the International Investment Position tells us.
http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/international/intinv/iip_glance.htm $31 Trillion Dollars Foreign Owned to $25 Trillion of US owned foreign property.
And what is the Balance of Trade, Current Account Balance? USA is #193, Dead Last of all countries listed by the CIA.
193, United States, -$385,800,000,000, 2014 est.
I say cut the Military Spending on Expensive Weapons and Contracts. US MIC Contracts are explosively Inflationary just like US Health Care.
Cost Controls have to be made, just as Admin Costs for Corporations has to be held in check since Jobs and wages are being suppressed through outsourcing, globalization, and use of Tax Havens.
We can reform Explosive Spending since 2002
Did your class teach you about how large corporations generally fall away from classic capitalistic principles, and softly merge with the government in order to create policy and regulation that protects them from having to compete, and grow too big to fail? Was this cause even brought up?
Harper is hardly a conservative and I'm glad to see him step down.
leftists are usually the ones pushing new national programs, conservatives just mess around with the programs the liberals passed. the right wing parties in both our countries need to get their priorities in order.
>In my Marxist economics
Get out of here with that dubious nonsense. "Socioeconomic drivers" in that sense is bullshit used to justify a ideological belief that cannot stand with objective analysis.
Its grasping for straws at that point. Many of those leaders have since been toppled or are still in the process of their revolution.
The problem with most revolutions and marxist insurgencies is that they don't take into account that the local populace may not be on their side Che was ratted out by bolivar farmers who didn't like the strange Argentinian armed running around the countryside. Once a government is deposed there is always competing factions looking for power,
Another major factor is outside influence like you said. The outside factors often force the revolutionaries to become as brutal as the regime they ousted.
You realize we made that image out of satire. Then you autistic fucks went and tried to expand it like it was ligitmate.
Weekly and hourly earnings data from the Current Population Survey
Series Id: LEU0252881600
Series title: (unadj)- Constant (1982-84) dollar adjusted to CPI-U- Median usual weekly earnings, Employed full time, Wage and salary workers
Year Qtr1 Qtr2 Qtr3 Qtr4 Annual
1979 339 334 325 328 332
1980 324 314 315 317 318
1981 317 311 304 314 312
2012 337 335 329 336 335
2013 334 333 330 337 333
2014 339 328 332
Constant Dollars, Weekly Earning same in 1979 as 2014.
Gini coefficient, before taxes and transfers Country Late 2000s
United States, 0.486
United Kingdom, 0.456
New Zealand, 0.455
Czech Republic, 0.444
you forgot these sources for liberal ideas:
If the Western Countries, the USA, Israel, Germany, are all at the top of the worst Income and Wealth Gaps, Widening Gaps, then are we all
Like Franco in Spain, Mussolini in Italy, Hitler in Germany?
They made a Fascist Trade Agreement, Peace Agreement of some kind to USE Usury and new speak out against it.>>54084072
Check Wikipedia, the Wealth Gaps are increasing, the Trend is obvious to anyone who looks.
That coincides more with globalization more than it does with Reagan taking office. Additionally, the productivity increase has more to do with technology than it does with workers being more valuable.
It only took a few minutes to revamp it, and I quite like the new one. The artwork is superior and it has some interesting examples of attempts at implementing Marxist doctrine. Chavez and Allende are guaranteed to get a rise from South Americans, which is the icing on the cake IMO.
It was an analysis of Marxian economists and literature, there was little in terms of discussion of capitalistic principles and effects. It was more or less a seminar being taught by a few of our Econ and mathematics professors for Econ undergrads who were at the 400-level
Quite spectacularly in self-contained bubbles, incompatible with competing foreign interests
>implementing the marxist doctrine
But they all failed horribly in the end, they can't defend themselves from outside pressures or adapt quickly to demands.
You were here last night and you conceded to most of my points.
There hasn't been a single successful command economy or purely communist society.
the communist ideal is impossible because the survival of societies is based on how quick they can adapt and supply resources, and the free market does that best.
In a communist society they get absolutely destroyed by famine or diseases or invaders
Post YFW Zimbabwe.
I notice the US Congress and US President Giving away the country and have coordinated this neoliberalism and status quo.
Both Republicans and Democrats are in one Party. It is the Elite Party and you ain't in it.
Sure start a Bloody Crusade through out the Middle East and South West Asia, then keep our borders open and even bring in Refugees. Great Idea if you have security guards and a compound to escape to. Not great if you are common guy.
And what is this shit about supporting Israel? For what? Jews are against Christianity by their book, just like Islamist book puts them against Jews and Christians. Supporting Israel is just about Money and staying in power through money. There is no Principal about supporting Israel.
US Congress supports Policy of War even though we signed a Treaty in 1918 against having a policy of war.
What is the USA without the Peoples will running the federal govt, without borders, without actions to preserve wages and jobs, without a check on Corporate Power and Monopolies, without limits or elimination of Lobbying and corruption of our politicians.
We need National Referendums, but you are too fascist to see it.
Duopoly, Corporatocracy, Plutocracy, Militocracy, Inverted Totalitarianism.
Fine. You want race wars and terrorism, so they can remove 2nd Amendment and put chips in all of us to better spy and control us.
I haven't been on /pol/ in a few weeks actually. Also, quite a few of those regimes are still operating today, there are a couple of self-contained Marxist societies operating functionally as well, albeit on a small scale.
The communist ideal is certainly impossible within our current framework and level of advancement, but becomes a necessity once scarcity becomes obsolete. Whether you believe technology can create an abundance or not is up to you, but it is an important element to the Communist dogma. Also, most national attempts at Communism are implemented in 3rd world nations with little existing infrastructure, essentially dooming them from the start.
The free market functions greatly with scarce resources and a lack of infrastructure, but begins to need support after labor begins to lose value.
Naw. What is that one.
I agree with 90% of your post.
But I am a NatSoc/Fascist and the US is not it. They are Corperatist Globalists. Or economic imperialists.
I think the left and right need to unite to destroy this ugly machine.
"And the sewers were muddied with a thousand bloody suicides."
>those regimes still exist today
And I'm sure they are full functioning and are all well developed and everyone is a happy go lucky communist in them right? No. Their development is in the dirt.
Communists simply cannot compete with the free market, they are stagnate and unable to adapt to demands.
They also lack any basic ideas of economics because they don't believe in the economy so it is difficult to have a yelling match over God, if one contestant doesn't even have any knowledge of him.
Coincides with Wealthy Elites taking control and completing a Coup on the USA.
George H. W. Bush, CIA Director, assumes Whitehouse VP, then Reagan is Shot. Coup.
CIA gets into Whitehouse after a decade of Scandals in the CIA?
- 1972, BCCI Bank created
- 1972, Watergate Scandal, with ties to CIA
- 1973, Family Jewels Reports commissioned about CIA
- 1974, CIA Slapped with Investigations of Practices, they decide to Outsource & Subcontract (Church Committee, Nedzi Committee, Pike Committee
- 1975, Rockefeller Commission to investigate CIA Activities within the USA
- 1978, Soviet-Afghanistan War Starts
It's funny, because a lot of marxist/leftist rhetoric is a critique of how corporations give jobs and funding to foreigners. However, the modern left's political elite seem to be trending towards globalism.
There are 3 things in leftist policy that empower globalism. First, Democrats are all about that. They've shifted from being union protectionists to being UN-catering "citizens of the world", and giving billions to foreign countries and third world shitholes that just spend the money to maintain their corrupt government and warlords. Secondly, You claim you want American economic independence, but the recent Democratic debate (excluding based Jim Webb), was a shit-flinging contest of "who did more to shut-down the oil and coal industry". If you want real economic nationalism, you would not cater to crazy environmentalists (not saying environmental protection is bad, just that it is exaggerated), who want to destroy our oil and coal production, or prevent the construction of harmless, efficient pipelines. Leftists don't even want to construct thorium reactors, which are safe and efficient, while France is 80% nuclear-powered. Maintaining our dependence on the Muslim world for oil is not nationalistic.
Lastly, the Democratic left has a fetish for Mexican immigration, including illegal immigration. They lunge at the opportunity to eat the shit crust out of the asshole of the first Mexican they see, give them free shit, and get them voting for the DNC.
The fact is that the majority of crime in the US is committed by blacks and hispanics, and Mexican illegals commit 30% of the crime in border states. Not to mention, that these people are uneducated and slovenly, and compete with the US native working class for jobs.
The average left-wing Western European country you love so much has much stricter immigration laws than the US, and they strategically pick immigrants that would help the economy; which is what we should be doing.
Why would a socialist want to shit on his voter base by giving their jobs away to immigrants? All this is why Sanders and Hillary have lost the support of US manufacturing and energy unions. Guess who does have their support: Trump. link: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/29/teamsters-withhold-hillary-clinton-endorsement-want-meet-donald-trump/
Also, I find it humorous how this "liberal" thread turned into a full-on Marxist thread after a few posts. It just goes to show that there is nothing "liberal" about the term you love, it's just a statism fan club.
Individualism is a trait of Anglo-Germanic nations, and maybe Japan/South Korea. The rest of the world seems to be like mindless ants.
I can tell you don't actually know a whole lot about what you're talking about. Go ahead and look up Marinaleda, the Zapatistas, Shinmin, etc., then read a couple of books, maybe Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell, Capitalism, Socialism, and Democracy by Joseph Schumpeter, The Global Minotaur by Yanis Varoufakis, and Das Kapital by Karl Marx for a brief introduction into economics. Then perhaps we could have a more meaningful discussion.
Was your "brain" built in George Soros' laboratory?