ITT we discuss friend zone
Does it exist?
Do men feel entitled to sex?
Do women honestly think men AREN'T trying to have sex with them?
Surely it exists, why wouldn't it exist?
A lot of men just expect a girl to care about them because they're nice, but every person had their own story and their own complex backgrounds. They decide who they'll go out with.
And I know for a fact that some women are naive enough to believe men approach them to be friendly, but not all of them do. Fugin naive sluts.
It is a thing, though I hate using the term because I associate it with "nice guys" and fedoras.
The problem is that women don't understand that men truly only talk to them because they want to fuck them. Sure, a man can enjoy a woman's company. Yeah, he can fall madly in love with her. But for the most part, the initial draw to the woman is the desire to fuck her. If sex were not pleasurable, men would just chill with their bros all day and the population would plummet.
It only exists for the unexperienced and introverted shy guys who struggle to get close to women. Everybody else keeps an appropriate distance to their platonic female friends. And if they ever end up crushing on one of them, don't have to confess their feelings in order to know if they truly have a shot, or not. They simply move on and find another girl. It's as simple as that.
that fucking strawman. men don't feel entitled to sex. the concept of entitlement is a completely female one. men have a immense desire for sex, so they of course will try to get it from women..
I don't feel entitled, no, but just the same it'd be nice if I got the chad treatment for once.
You're missing the point. The people who are entitled are the guys that complain about women not having sex with them even though they're nice guys, as if that's all you need to do.
Friend zone doesn't exist. It's more of a miscommunication/misunderstanding between a female and a male on intentions.
I'll make it easy for my male Anon to understand.
You (male) and your best friend (male) is hanging out. You've been friends for the longest time, and you shoot the shit and what not.
One day, he asked if you want to get closer. You're totally fucking blind sided by this. Why? Because you never thought of him as anything more than a personal friend.
Does this make you a bad friend to reject him because you aren't interested in him? No, it's a misunderstanding/miscommunication.
This applies to females.
"Nice guys" are males who are nice in the context of wanting to be rewarded for being nice.
Friends of females are guys who enjoy their company but have no sexual attraction to the friend.
tl;dr Friend zone is a myth made by those who believe that should get pussy without making it clear. Aka: "Nice guys"
Betas have an overwhelming fear of rejection, so they think by being 'nice' and 'friendly' to a female, that she will eventually just realize how much of a great match he is for her. However, this never happens. Betas that get friend zoned do not show initial romantic interest and thus are seen as just friends for eternity. If the interest was known by the female, she would either show interest back or avoid them. It's not that hard.
the difference between a male-male and male-female relationship is that you would rarely expect your male friend wants to bugger you if you're male, while you should only expect your male friend wants to fuck you if you're female.
It makes no sense for a woman not to anticipate that a male friend could want to have sex with her.
Yes it does exist. But, like anything, it describes a variety of situations.
The problem is that people try to manipulate the definition of the word according to their interpretation of what it is. Their interpretation is caused by their ideology.
>For some men it is women leading them on (this does happen).
>For some women it is men just after sex (this does happen).
But usually one group just declares that it is one way or the other because it alligns with their politics. I've seen all sets of situations happen and it is never just one way.
Often there is also cases of misunderstanding. Many men, for example, prefer knowing someone as a friend before progressing. Can this be define as "after sex" when they want a relationship? People might misinterpretthe situation as being there.
Really this is a lack of communication between genders. And no amount of silly comics will solve that.
Its not about entitlement its about returning the favor. They are nice to them do stuff for them a girl could atleast suck a guys dick once.
I had a friend in HS who would use this guy and we all knew she did it and tried to get her to use him more. He would give her large amounts of money. Do errands for her and shit. I remember one day some of my "friends" were trying to get weed and we told her to ask him for 100 dollars. She said she didnt want to push it basically admitting she friendzoned him and was using him. She literally couldve atleast sucked his dick once but he was too good a friend lol. What a bitch(guy and girl tbh)
that's not really true. women often suspect someone being nice and friendly to them of having an ulterior motive. if you already are attractive to women, being nice and friendly won't stop women from being attracted to you.
>still believing this
most women are very well aware of having a guy in the friendzone. some even intentionally put guys there so they can exploit them.
this miscommunication thing only happens to attractive guys.
>ITT: confusingly complacent misogynists who are probably also fucking normies who are going to say they have tons of friends and have plenty of meaningless sex and will spout redpill nonsense
This place looking more like reddit lately.
Women don't really need to develop themselves socially to be accepted so yeah most are boring and unfunny. Very few women are really worth being friends with, unless you yourself are effeminate.
>this is what women actually believe
>the fawn around Chads so thats the perception of guys they get
>"he only wants to fuck me"
he definitly wants to fuck you, but as most guys will testify, also want to love you
yes, it exists
there are two types of women who deny the existence of the friendzone
the first type are just oblivious air heads
the second type are the ones abusing the friendzone for their own benefit. they know what they are doing by leading guys on, and they want to keep doing it because there really aren't any down sides.
i'd say most women that do it are the second type. women are great at being manipulative while also not appearing to be manipulative. it's like one of their key traits world wide.
I've been friends with females before and had no real desire to fuck them. Often times one of us was in a relationship or for whatever reason it was pretty clear that we weren't really compatible and that a platonic friendship was in our best interests.
Hell, sometimes romantic/sexual relationships that evolve from friendships are great. I remember hooking up with a chick after being friends with her for a couple years, and it was some of the most fun I've ever had sexually. That being said I have experienced before the "friendzone" insofar a oneitis of mine wasn't interested in me that way and just wanted to be friends. It happens though.
Anyone who has never befriended the other gender probably has bad relationships with their family, schoolmates, and/or coworkers and honestly it's just sad.
I've never understood the vilification of guys in the friendzone. They have feelings for someone that aren't reciprocated and are frustrated by it, hasn't everyone experienced this at least once?
>Very few women are really worth being friends with, unless you yourself are effeminate.
So it basically it boils down to this:
>If you see any merit in spending time with women other than fucking them, you're a faggot!
Great attitude, anon.
Not him, but tell us anon, what do you see in women that makes them worthwhile friends?
Are they loyal?
Do they have your back?
Can you count on them when you need something?
Would they be willing to sacrifice something for you?
If not, then you clearly don't actually know what a friend is.
it's called a bait and switch
by only blaming the 'nice guy friend' for ending up in the friendzone it takes the attention away from what the women are doing. it's both of their faults for ending up in the situation, the guy is weak, and the girl is a bitch who likes using people.
I can. But I can't imagine that friendship to be as fulfilling as a friendship between two guys. And most male-female friendships ive witnessed among my friends seem to prove me right.
>It makes no sense for a woman not to anticipate that a male friend could want to have sex with her.
Females don't anticipate males the same way males anticipate females. Normies in general, will generally treat others without suspicion of ulterior motives.
A "creepy" guy is someone that they would treat with ulterior motives and tell them to fuck off.
>most women are very well aware of having a guy in the friendzone
Yes and no. If the guy is being creepy, (unnecessary compliments, way to close, then yes they will do this for there own safety).
>some even intentionally put guys there so they can exploit them.
Males do this females as well. Don't act like your shit doesn't smell. Shitty people will be shitty.
>Are they loyal?
>Do they have your back?
Yes, they do.
>Can you count on them when you need something?
Yes, of course.
>Would they be willing to sacrifice something for you?
They have and they would.
My favourite part of the "nice guy" complex is the women that pretend to be completely oblivious as to why their "friend" buys them shit, drives them places and does work for them. The girl/orbiter relationship is almost always one-sided but the girl refuses to see it that way. When a guy backs away from a woman when it's clear she doesn't want a romantic relationship with him, it's not because he's an asshole (although he might be), it's because he doesn't want to be a doormat anymore. He was doing everything a boyfriend does without any of the upside. Women have invented the "nice guy" label because it's easier to portray the man as an asshole, instead of confronting the fact that they were only befriended by this guy (and many others) in the first place because of their vagina. If they got introspective, they'd realise that their true worth to a man is their vagina. Not their sense of humour. Not their intelligence. Not their super personality.
Black people commit a large majority of crimes for there small percentage of the population of America.
Does this mean White, Hispanic, and Asian crimes doesn't exist?
Think of the larger picture, rather than what affects you?
Allow me to be a person of reason.
There are two friend zones.
One, the entitled guy who we hear about in these examples, he was taught that treating a woman right would get him a girl. his mom was wrong, she didn't know how to teach him. She herself was tricked by a handsome, crafty guy and now she's pregnant and doesn't give it up. Poor her.
The Other, type two, of these guys, really cool. He doesn't know that women deserve basic human decency. He just assumes they're there to please him. your mom, your sister and your daughter would blow this man if he existed. They have no qualms about dicks or self respect.
The point is, your pals look out for you, your gals look out for themselves. There is no simpler way to explain it. This is true throughout humanity and you would do well to make friends with some guys.
Do women not realize that by vilifying nice-guys they're only cutting off their own supply of beta-orbiters?
More and more betas are wising up and stopping to be a doormat due to women making it clear that they find nice guys pathetic and only use them for free shit and one-sided favours.
If I was a woman, I'd keep everything a secret so that I'd have an endless supply of oblivious betas.
I hate the whole "YOU'RE ENTITLED!" "NICE GUYS ARE NOT ACTUALLY NICE!" thing.
Where are these dudes who honestly think that they deserve to get pussy just because they did something nice for a girl? I don't know any. Only 13 year old kids and absolute manchildren would think like that.
The whole "nice guys aren't nice" thing just seems like a way to avoid having to feel bad about rejecting guys because of their looks. "Entitled." I'm entitled for wanting to have sex, but every girl deserves a 10/10 Chad. Yeah...
To be truthiful, nice guys do expect sex. So do genuinely nice guys. So do mean guys, and asshole guys. Every guy kind of expects sex, because we expect our "commitment", our attention, our work to be towards a relationship.
No, not a meaningless one night stand that women are so fond of. Something with more content to it, a real relationship where you pretend to care about each other, the gay shit where you learn and appreciate the other person, the bit where you accept them for who they are.
Every single man who has talked to you has imagined having sex with you. That is a fucking fact and it will never, ever change. Even the gay dudes, they think about fucking. Maybe not about girls pussies, what do I know? but they have those urges as well.
You are not special, your vagina is not special, it does not entitle you to special treatment from guys, you should just try to be the best person you can be, and hope some guy ends up liking you for it.
[18:41] <xxxxxxx> I seem to have done it again when it comes to attracting the opposite gender on le ol' xbox xD
[18:42] <xxxxxxx> I mentioned to you the 31yr old who likes me in le crew I'm in and that he has a fellow crew member who lives down the road from him, well now he likes me too \o/
[18:43] <xxxxxxx> Gotta be something in the waters in Northamptonshire
[18:43] <zzzzzzz> >.> Are we sure GTA isn't a dating app in disguise?
[18:44] <xxxxxxx> xD
[18:44] <xxxxxxx> I've pretty much friendzonde them pair of them subtly
[18:46] <xxxxxxx> *friendzoned
[18:48] <xxxxxxx> I daren't ever mention to the 31yr old about his friend liking me, too much potential drama there o.o
[18:49] <zzzzzzz> undoubtedly
Oh It exists alright. Pains me when they just talk about it so casually.
It's far easier to say a "nice guy" that's wised up is a prick, than to acknowledge that a woman has used him and strung him along knowing full well what his intentions were.
>"oh the other day Kevin said he had feelings for me and wants more than a friendship. I said I don't see him that way. He's disappeared since then. I feel so used."
>"ugh, what an asshole"
it is a way of avoiding responsibility. that's really all it boils down to. they twist logic to make themselves feel like the victim,
the truth of it is they don't want nice anyway. they want attractive douchebags. the thing to understand here is they absolutely hate themselves for wanting those types of guys.
It's just too much responsibility on the females end to say "no, never happening" or however they have to phrase it
They sure don't mind the awkwardness of feigning interest while he buys you shit. They sure do mind the awkwardness of him trying to ask you out and you coming up with a reason on the fly
Entirely selfish creatures who do not feel bad for anybody else besides themselves. They would rather put another man through the test than just admit they have to chance.
"but telling him the truth would make me feel bad ;_;"
fucking a so? can't your fragile ego handle one negative thing sometimes?
No, if not for pussy men would literally never even talk to women.
Women aren't an additional plus on top of pussy, they're a hindrance of a man's enjoyment of pussy.
If women didn't have the trade off of having a pussy they wouldn't be worth even interacting with.
>Does it exist?
Yeah, it does; however, it's mostly the male's fault.
>Do men feel entitled to sex?
Yes, why else would we even hang around women?
>Do women honestly think men AREN'T trying to have sex with them?
Yes, they lack self-awareness because of their over-inflated egos they get from so many males hoping to get in their pants.
Friendzone is an umbrella term for a lot of situations. There are guys that are constantly being lead on by girls that like the attention but don't feel the urgency that Chad makes them feel to get their attention, so they won't fuck them. There are guys that seriously think that doing some good stuff entitles them to sex, but I don't think we should be too hard on them because most of them honestly want to be with the girl and not just stick their dicks in anybody that gives them a chance, they just act like they were taught.
Regardless of the details, I think we should agree on some common traits of the different kinds of friendzone. The situation when a guy has a desire for intimacy with a girl but the girl just doesn't see him that way even if she likes him is pretty common, and in that situation the best you can do is put distance. Not blame anyone, not feel bitter or angry, just distance yourself because of course you can't be friends and you can't force it without suffering for it. Getting away from a pain source is just natural.
>Men need to stop expecting sex from their women friends
>Men shouldn't stop being friends with women because they won't date them
The friendzone isn't when men feel entitled to relationships. It's when women feel entitled to friendship.
Don't be stupid, most women know it exists. They just don't want to take any responsibility for being on the good side of one-sided relationship.
The cucks are also to blame of course. In fact any man that finds himself in the friendzone deserves to be there so he can hopefully learn.
>women as normal human beings
We're basically a different species when it comes to how we act and think. A man has more in common with another man of different race/country/religion that it has with a woman.
It works basically the same way in either direction, yeah. Somebody puts in some work to try and bag a person they're interested in, that other person shows some interest back but not any sexual kind of interest, and then the first person has the option of pretending to be okay with just friendship in the hopes of turning it into something else someday. That last option is the friendzone.
I think the big misconception with it is that you can get put into the friendzone by another person, when the friendzone is really just someone denying the reality that the person they're interested in is not interested in them in that way. You torture yourself with the friendzone, and leaving it is as easy as deciding to. I think the fattie you're talking about did the good version of it where she did some buildup, then asked to make a thing out of it and discovered she couldn't. She was a cunt about it apparently, but she at least isn't going to be laboring under false pretenses with you. So many people try to do the flirting/courtship thing but never actually speak up about what they want, which means they never get flat-out rejected, which means they can nurse hopes that aren't really there for a long time. It's nice to not get rejected but it's bad to languish in the friendzone when you could just ask for what you want and then move on if you don't get it.
Having been friendzoned a couple times, I think it's what happens when you don't know how to make friends. It's like you're looking for mommy to take care of you, and think making yourself a good but needy boy will get her to do so. But from what I (a virgin) understand, sex is more like a hunt in which the fittest predator catches the prey.
It's not pain for the women though. She gets the profits of the 'friendship' and then gets to call him an asshole when he makes his move and she rejects him. They take no responsibility.
It happens that women think that "no i couldn't have sex with him that would be so weird" about their friend even if he's attractive enough for her to have sex with if they were strangers.
There is no friend zone. Some girls just arent interested in fucking you. If you want sex from her and she doesnt want the same from you, stop talking to her and move on to the next girl.
DUH WTF IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND
i cant stay in the friendzone, i just want to fuck them, if they dont want to fuck, i quickly give a fuck about her, never talk to her again
male and female friendshit is a incomplete realtion, the fucking is the whole thing that moves the world
I don't get it guys. Why can't you just interact with girls like they're guys, they're only humans? And if they show the right signals while also being attractive to you, ask them out.
You seem so obsessed with what status of relationship you're in with girls you know. Just relax and don't go out of your way to help them all the time - comes off as clingy.
This sounds pretty accurate.
The problem is being introverted and not being able to communicate that you fancy someone, so you try and get around that by being friendly. There's nothing to be blamed for in that situation, people can't help getting a crush on someone and overcoming introversion is very difficult.
The problem arises when the guy doesn't take a realistic view on the situation. For example, that might be "Damn, I want to tell this chick how I feel but I'd probably panic and look dumb, and she might reject me". From there you can either be accepting or put effort into overcoming your fear.
The alternative is looking for someone or something to blame. If one already has certain beliefs about women or society, then those will be the go-to things to blame for the fact that a relationship hasn't started.
And no, I'm not saying "just b urself". Overcoming social anxiety and fear of rejection is not easy (big understatement) and always features setbacks. But blaming yourself and others for unfortunate circumstance doesn't lead you any closer to your goal.
Of course, I've never implied that it's painful for the woman. Unless the woman in question is being friendzoned, but she can always cry and call you an asshole, dudes don't have that option because in either side of the friendzone the dude is the asshole. What I think is that you should be capable to back away from the friendzone without being guilt tripped into staying with the usual "oh of course you just wanted sex and nothing else, all men are the same, blah blah blah". You don't have any responsability to stay as friends if you don't want to.
Of course, there are idiots that stay in the friendzone just to avoid rejection, like >>23289297 said, those guys are just torturing themselves.
This is on the money. "Friendzone" and "nice guy" describe a whole bunch of behaviours, and with something as subjective as social interaction people will usually interperet them to favour their own point of view.
But even Chads are attacked as "players" and trashed when they don't want to commit to only one girl (who would do that in their shoes), even if they're very open about not wanting to commit. The only difference is that the Chad doesn't give a fuck, but he's demonized too.
Holy shit, just talk to them like their humans. Why the fuck are you labelling it like its a whole different level of interaction that you need to prepare for and shit.
Just fucking talk to them normally
>Just fucking talk to them normally
No, women are always reading between lines. You can't just talk normally to a woman, even less if you are interested on having sex or a relationship with her.
Yes, there is a friend zone and anyone else telling you otherwise is lying.
I had a chick that wanted to cheat on her BF with me and she made sure to tell me "don't worry you aren't in the friend zone or anything like that."
This chick was the type that posted how much she loves her BF too. Disgusting.
I agree that you shouldn't try to force the friendship, but you shouldn't act so buttblasted too. Just treat her like the nice fat girl you don't want to fuck, and don't bother doing anything for her that you wouldn't do for another acquaintance.
I had a close female friend. We were best friends and hung around eachother every day I was for all intents and purposes her boyfriend except I wasn't. She had a boyfriend she'd meet after in secret and fuck. Like they had a secret relationship going on while she hung out with me day to day.
It was great but the friend zone meme came into full swing I guess in 2010/11 and I got very self conscious about it and got rid of her. I feel like a cunt for it now. She didn't owe me sex and what we had was a sweet deal for me. I'd rather be the virgin she actually wants to hang around with than the guy she only meets up to fuck and fight with tbh.
It wasn't really the friendzone anyway as she contacted me and was the driving force behind hanging out. I was essentially a sort of Alpha orbiter. The most omega of them all.
there is a reason gender-dynamics exist. If everyone treated anyone exactly the same, we would've died out a long time ago. and don't even start with this "treat us like humans"-strawman, noone suggested treating women as not human, just different from their platonic male friends.
This is something even normies don't get. Most people get angsty about male-female friendships becoming relationships.
The thing is,
You're right, it's not easy to move on from feelings of attachment. It's not your fault, but it's not the chick's fault either. It's best to learn how to be more accepting that certain relationships wont work out.
If you're funny or helpful or any of the things that generally allow you to make friends, girls will want to continue talking to you. If you want to fuck them, make a judgement on whether you can deal with rejection or not and just go for it.
I seriously don't get what is so hard to understand here. I have friends that are girls and have had girlfriends in the past. they are not scheming, manipulative creatures. They don't HAVE to like you for you to ask them out. The date/whatever is the opportunity to get to know them and for them to get to know you.
Please, point out the flaws in my explanation, I'm at a loss here
I stopped being friends with women. Those friendships belong in midschool.
When I engage in a conversation with a potentially fuckable woman, there are precisely TWO options. 1) I like her, she likes me; we go out. OR 2) I like her, she doesn't like me, but would like to be friends still; I say I don't do that stuff with females and listen to the following triggering erupting until I just laugh to her face and tell her to fuck off and I leave. (this has happened too many times).
I hate the system. I hate the gender roles. I hate the fact that patriarchy is dead in the western world. Good old classic times are gone forever.
Its not strawman. I'm a guy and I honestly think if you're thinking about all these things with how they'll interpret you and how alpha you have to be, you'll just come off as insincere. Treat them like anyone else because even if they become disinterested (aka attention whores) you ideally have other friends to keep you company.
Well, there are different degrees of friendship. What I meant is that you should stop with any efforts to bond with the girl (never starting conversations, doing big favors, giving invitations or setting any compromises) but that there's no need to be resentful and act mad, even if you are, because you came out as weak. If she talks to you, you answer, even if it's a minimalist and uninterested answer.
Not him, but why would you care a shit about what she thinks when you move on Anon, that doesn't make sense.
Just move on, try the next one and live a happy life. YOU FUCKING DON'T NEED FEMALE FRIENDS AT ALL
That's completely true.
If you get too attached, its game over. You just have to be at a level of self confidence (and have other friends) to be able to not come off as needy, and send the message that you would be the same without them and you are ultimately comfortable with yourself.
>If you're funny or helpful or any of the things that generally allow you to make friends, girls will want to continue talking to you.
God damn you are one dumb nigger.
It's not that they don't want to talk to me, it's that I don't want to talk to them.
Women are fucking BORING, I have nothing in common with most of them, why would I want to be friends with them?
Just to say I have a female friend?
I just stopped tryng to be the nice guy, i dont even try to fuck them anymore if i dont see the spark at the beggining, i only try to see if she can help me with something usefull, if she is counterproductive to me, i just cut off the relation
Its just really expensive at energy/feels this men/female interactions on fucking purpouse, its better if a make things to make her do the hard job as lifting, getting fit, working extra to get more for me, ik im in a crazy abstinence, itss just burns inside me but i wont gonna fall again in the friend zone and the fucking nice guy role.
ill just try to improve the max of my atraction capacity and focus on my self, i hate watching porn and i hate thinking that im a loner but i prefer this than play this fucking sick game, my way or fuck it
You think they're boring, yet you (seemingly) want a gf? Be open minded and go out of your comfort zone socially so you meet more types of people.
What do you actually WANT here? Sex? Companionship?
Is that picture actually implying that the guys they do fuck aren't nice to them because they want to fuck them too? Are women this naive? Why do they think Chad is nice to them but isn't nice to ugly girls who he doesn't want to fuck?
Once women tried to constantly reinforce that they didn't owe me sex, I just took the attitude that I owed them nothing at all. Validation, companionship, support. Who gives a fuck? Calling someone entitled works both ways m8.
Hermit life is surprisingly great.
The instant a girl lays eyes on you you are either a '1' or a '0'.
If you are a 1, she is willing to fuck you. However, you CAN fuck this up and turn to a 0 if your personality/interactions is poor.
If you are a 0, she is NOT willing to fuck you. There is nothing you can do personality or interaction-wise to change this.
There is NO FRIEND ZONE, there are just people who do not understand the above concept.
I actually don't care much for getting a gf, ideally I'd want a woman that shares the same passions as I do, but those are like unicorns.
And this conversation is about friends m8, not sexual relationships.
I have plenty of male friends in lots of different areas (vidya buddies, comic buddies, choir buddies, sports buddies, etc.) so I don't need to move out of my comfort zone to look for something that I don't want.
The "friendzone doesn't exist" and "entitlement" shit doesn't make sense. It's just mindless retardspeak.
And when a women rejects you it is impossible to maintain a real friendship. People in a friendzone relationship always hate each other and just aren't honest enough with themselves to cut it off. It is named the friendzone because they pretend they're your friend so they don't have to be mean about it and look like a bitch.
If a woman rejects you and you have even an ounce of self confidence, you'd recognise that its probably their loss.
They're probably useless to you in other regards, just eliminate them from your life.
The friendzone does exist. The process starts when a naive '0' tries to pursue the girl without knowing she has no interest. The process is complete when the girl takes no responsibility for this newly founded one-sided "friendship" and allows this guy to do shit for her knowing full well that he wants to be more than friends.
They're both to blame, but the woman at least gets something out of it and then has the privilege of calling the guy an asshole when it's all over.
>I have friends that are girls and have had girlfriends in the past. they are not scheming, manipulative creatures
On one side
>omg fucking 'nice guys' could you stop doing all those nice things for me if all you want is to have sex with me
On the other
>omg why do guys always stop talking to me at a party when I say I have a boyfriend come on what the fuck give me attention
The friend zone doesn't exist
the nice guy concept doesn't exist
the word everybody is looking for is confidence
Women want men to exert confidence even if deep down he knows he's a shy betamax orbiter. It's as if they have a 6th sense just for detecting confidence in a man
'nice guys' can easily get the girl they want, the problem is their nice and caring ways show their own mistrust much more easily.
If you can trust yourself, then why are they going to trust their own problems with you?
You're offering to eat out with someone. Its a normal, human gesture, but it needs to initially come off as one without romantic connotations.
Thats why people say "wanna grab lunch/a coffee together". Its more about providing a medium for further 1 to1 conversation than a mutual epiphany that youre both destined for each other.
English isn't my first language, please let me know if I'm explaining it badly. This is from my own experience and ultimately my opinion, but I've always approached it like this.
It could be different where I live, but I've never directly experienced women being manipulative towards me. There are obviously situations where women CAN and HAVE been manipulative (e.g. ugly, rich husband) but I don't believe they are inherently manipulative as a gender group.
>It could be different where I live, but I've never directly experienced women being manipulative towards me
>implying women would ever be manipulative to a chad
I'm talking about the whole concept of beta orbiters.
(Again, from my experience), they seem to breifly consider 'oh he might like me' but if you're confident enough and generally physically un-repulsive there is no logical reason why they would say no. If they ask why, just remember its a friendly gesture and at that moment in time you want to (or pretend to want to) get to know them & have lunch, not fuck them.
This cannot be discussed until "friend zone" is given a clear and steadfast definition.
And hear it is;
>him- I've known you for years, I love you
>her-iv known you for years, I only see you as a friend
It's really just women being selfish, they want to reject the inferior male, but still keep him around for social/monetary reasons.
They don't choose to be with the guy, they don't choose to reject him so he can move on. Instead they choose some vague middle ground, cunts.
Most women are shit friends tbh.
>Have a couple of female friends
>All of them LOVE to talk about their problems
>That's fine with me, that's what friends are for
>Once in a while I have a problem that is similar to theirs
>Bring it up like they do
>mfw none of them want to talk about it
This. This is the the most commonly known "friend zone" and people try to argue that it doesn't exist or some shit. This is the kind of shit that autists have been crying about for years.
>autist gets to know woman
>he doesn't show any romantic intent
>she regards him as nothing more than a friend
>the woman will then use him for emotional support if she has relationship troubles
>the autist will then think that "she'll be much better off with me"
>"I Just need to prove to her how much of a nice person I am"
>so he does favours for her
>takes her out
>buys her things
>because if he does this, that will prove how much he cares for her
>his behaviour becomes more and more erratic
>eventually he explodes into a cloud of pure autism dust
>WHORE CUNT BITCH SLUT ALL WOMEN ARE HORRIBLE WHY DO I GET PUT IN THE FRIEND ZONE
>he finds a new girl
>the cycle repeats
Coming from someone who I'd say was friendzoned hard, it's normally a miscommunication, women aren't really malicious, I don't think, that doesn't mean she won't manipulate and use you, but that's where all in all I think it's a bad idea.
What I've noticed is the friendzone is rarely just a women friend, it's normally a 'best friend' scenario which I think puts the guy in an unfair situation, the problem is then women ( guys not really ) expect some kind of platonic intimacy from this BFF, she wants you to be a big part of her life and also go out of your way for her, because that's what best friends do.
Most betas will do all this stuff because of intense attraction and scared to make a move or keep coming back after a rejection, but then you end up trapped because if you start to refuse these needs you're a bad friend.
While I agree you can't get mad about not having sex, and the girl isn't some evil mastermind and will be devastated if you left here it ignores one thing, what about the man's feelings?
I'd try explain it this way to a girl, imagine if you've never had a girlfriend then one day you meet a girl your attracted to, you're inexperienced so you just get close to her and start being nice because that will show her how you feel, you become good friends but never make a move or she rejects you, you tell yourself ok get over it carry on being friends.
But each day your friendship grows with this girl, your learn more about her and she learns more about you and you share some amazing experiences together, now you're not just attracted to her physically, she's an amazing person, each day you fall more and more in love with this girl, but she will never be able to feel the same way about you.
Is it fair to expect a man to endure this kind of torture , every single day he's with her and reminded of this, you can't control who you have feelings over.
I'm not really a Chad. I'm not socially dominant or particularly alpha. I'm just confident in myself enough that a girl could reject me in the most extravagant way, and I could honestly say I wouldn't give a fuck. If anything I would be happy to be away from such an attention whore.
>so he does favours for her
>takes her out
>buys her things
It's called dating when attractive guys do this
Just admit the "friendzone" is where women put men they like but not sexually. And they are fully aware of said man's infatuation, and they exploit it.
Don't you know? Men are supposed to bottle everything up until it turns us into monsters.
Look at this guy! He thinks friends do nice things like listen to your problems and care about you.
>someone said that women are loyal in this very thread
>this thread is still ongoing
You know. I couldn't careless about women but I fucking hate those whiteknights. Holy shit, they just piss me off.
We shouldn't exterminate women, we should exterminate those fucking manginas.
I'm afraid to say I haven't. Could you explain what its like though? Also would you say you have a loyal group of friends to fall back on? I think that's quite important after breakups or rejections.
>women aren't really malicious
can the women internet defense league shill fuck off?
I'm gay, and I agree that women are shitty, boring people, but I don't think that makes it right to pretend to care about them just to get sex. From a girl's point of view, wouldn't you be suspicious of every guy that was nice to you? Wouldn't you get sick of all the guys falling over themselves to get close to you when it's very transparent why they act like that?
If you're only nice to a girl because you think something will happen to benefit you, you're just as shallow and manipulative as the women you guys complain about.
I feel sorry for you though, must really suck being attracted to a person you have nothing in common with.
>Does it exist?
You give everything without stipulation, they have no reason to want anything else from you.
>Do men feel entitled to sex?
Some do but they trend to just spin their wheels because of it. Expecting owned to you pretty much ensures it's either never coming or you are going full rape and might see jail time.
>Do women honestly think men AREN'T trying to have sex with them?
Again, yes, some are naive and just think it can happen. Others are in denial and just want to think a person of the other sex can like them without it being about them getting their ass. Why do you think girls love gay guys?
go ahead and explain how men should act then
because really, if "being nice" is annoying to women, what the fuck should anyone do at this point? be a completely neutral and robotic?
it's all bullshit. as long as you are attractive it doesn't matter if you are 'nice' or a completely dickwad. it's a smokescreen.
this tbh fam smh
if you want to fuck a girl, act like you want to fuck her. girls want to fuck confident interesting guys, and they don't mind if the confident interesting guy doesn't really give a shit about jenny at work or the catty shit her mom said at dinner.
most girls recognize when sex/looks are the only things they bring to the table, and want to be wanted that way.
That's the thing, most of them don't know. All they know is that they have a good male friend they can rely on. Then the man suddenly turns on her, accusing her of being a no good whore for not accepting his advances when she didn't even know his intent in the first place.
>most of them don't know
women may be fucking morons, but they pride themselves on being "emotionally intelligent"
they know when a guy likes them. it's really that simple.
For starters see >>23291209
You are giving her what any living thing can.
Anyone can be kind if they chose too.
So what a shock you and 3 other guys like this girl. Guess what? Any of them can be "nice" So you got to bring more to the table than you can be nice. You might as well brag you can look at them and listen, it takes no energy.
You want them? You have to provided something she desires or offer something she just can't get anywhere else.
She wants attractive? You're not? move on.
She wants successful? You're not? Move on.
She wants a witty charmer? You're not? Move on.
This is the fucking world and if you don't like it, sorry there is no changing it.
Ok, maybe I should clarify. If you go out of your way to do things you wouldn't do for a male friend, that's being "nice". Note the quotation marks. Guys don't treat girls as friends, they put them on a pedestal, laugh at all their dumb jokes, do extra favors, give them items in games, etc. But it's all fake niceness because as soon as she says she's taken or not interested, he'll just fuck off and not be friends anymore. This type of behavior is the problem.
Basically this, you don't even have to be that callous about it though. If you think a girl is cute, ask her out right away, don't beat around the bush.
>Giving a women attention and entertainment is not effortless.
varies woman to woman as well as your own personal skill.
That said if it is hard for you then quit now because there are more guys out there like me that find being friendly and nice to a girl non issue to the point it's expected
Because of how glaringly obvious it is when you want to fuck but are trying idle smalltalk. When you think about all this shit 24/7 you're bound to have performance anxiety. Don't y'all have jobs or something else to to instead of stare at girls?
This board is full of people that claim they have solved the worlds secrets but can't figure out how to live their life or have a life at all
People believe a lot of things about themselves but it's usually bullshit.
>meet a qt once every 6 months or so
>we flirt a lot
>text every dat
>she asks me to hang out eventually
>afrer a few weeks she cuts off all contact and never talks to me again
i literally can't even make it into the friend zone. they want me then they dont. all i have now is a qt jailbait girl that lives in another country that i write essays for and skype with
What you said:
>him- I've known you for years, I love you
>her-iv known you for years, I only see you as a friend
What I heard:
>him: I'm in love with you
>her: I'm not in love with you
Unrequited love is tragic, but "women being selfish" is a bit of a stretch.
Nah, most of them know. Some of them openly talk about it.
And most guys don't have public autistic meltdowns when they're turned down. They don't scream "fucking whore" from the rooftops, they take it quietly like the betas they are.
I'm not laying all of the blame at the feet of women btw. Orbiters are usually pitiful.
Sorry I should of elaborated on this, I don't think many women are 'intentionally malicious', but this won't stop them from being damn cunning, manipulative, nasty and downright using you.
Women are all about their feelings, they don't think about things logically it's just how they feel at that moment is the right choice to them, they don't lead you on, she just feels like she really needs a friend to pick her up at 12am, and then she will rationalize and justify this to herself. And if she's being critical or nasty to you she just feels like she's in a bad mood or you're too sensitive.
>women aren't responsible and NEVER lead men on
Never said that but you are a fucktard if you are tail chasing a girl that won't even fucking give you the time of day.
You don't ask them out?
It's on you
You do they say no but beta cling like the moon to earth
It's on you
That girl can only lead you on as much as you let her.
Do not play fucking games when it comes to relationships.
>it's men's fault for not being good enough
No it's her fault but guess what? There is jack shit you can do about it. She doesn't want you, no amount of crying how unfair it is will make her want you.
Really it's your fault for playing such stupid games with yourself
The friendzone is real. The problem is the common misconception of women thinking that men in the friendzone feel entitled to sex or something.
No. People in the friendzone got along nicely with said woman, and wanted/wants a shot at dating them. But they don't give them that chance. Being stuck in the friendzone, however, is completely the mans fault.
Basically, you can be friends with a woman without being in the friendzone. "Friend" and "Friendzone" are two different things. Being in the friendzone is a man hanging around a woman looking for the opportunity to date, and never getting one.
>Do not play fucking games when it comes to relationships.
it's funny you say that, seeing as women constantly play fucking games with relationships
relationships to modern women are the equivalent to a pair of shoes in their wardrobe
the only way a man and woman can be friends is if either of them are not attracted to each other at all
that's it. once you add in someone being attracted to the other then the friendship goes to shit.
Why is it so hard for robot to understand that when women say "nice guy" they don't mean someone who's nice to them, but a thirsty beta who goes everywhere they go and tries to be nice and does nothing else but small talk.
Nobody's complaining that people are nice to you, people are complaining that people stalk them and expect that just because they aren't forcibly pillaging their poopers that they should give them to them voluntarily
>No it's her fault but guess what? There is jack shit you can do about it.
Uhh no, what I want is to not be led to believe that this relationship has a chance to become sexual.
If you're not interested, don't lead people on, all that's going to do is make them hate you.
why haven't you faggots gone mgtow so you don't have to deal with this shit. why do let women continue to mistreat you. come on guys we are men we are better then this stop letting your dick do the thinking for you.
Tbh I don't know if half the stuff here is bait anymore. Sort your real problems out, get occupied with something, then think about girls on the side. Relationships are laborious as fuck and they're going to end at some point whether you like it or not.
I think women have started to figure it out only in the last couple of years in terms of exploiting their beta orbiters for profit or attention.
Maybe 5+ years ago the kind of friend zone I talked about was the only one you read about.
And yeah, I'm over exaggerating a little regarding the meltdown. They don't scream it out from the rooftops but they vent their frustrations on websites just like this one. Stories about how all women are evil because they rejected their advances, when they never made their advances clear in the first place.
it's what happens
you get Elliott types that lash out because they can not or will not learn how to actually communicate with girls
So they become very hating at the world because hating themselves would just rip themselves apart.
>women aren't even friends with each other, let alone men
it's hysterical how bad women are at being friends with each other. have you ever seen how they work? it's a constant cycle of OMG BFF LETS DO EVERYTHING TOGETHER OMGOMGOMG PICTURES
and then 6 months later they can't fucking stand each other are start fucking the other's ex boyfriends and fucked up shit like that
don't ever listen to a woman about friendship, they don't know what friendship is.
Actually no normies ARENT completely wrecked by romantic rejection because we have full rich social lives and aren't betting the farm on the slimmest of chances just because a woman accidentally made eye contact with us
Also being able to shrug off rejection is actually kinda attractive to women
yes that's how i met those qt's. tbh i just went too fast, it's my fault. the way girls see guys is "he might be good enough if i just ride it out longer" yet in my case it's "she's probably good enough i'll stick with her until she gives me a reason not to."
why not go on a date asap? if there's no chemistry you can both move on happily ever after.
sometimes i forget they have options and i meet a new gril once in a blue moon.
Yeah there's definitely joint responsibility for the friendzone situation. Guys that let themselves get to that point without fully making their intentions clear deserve the friendzone for the lesson they'll (hopefully) learn. But women that know how a guy feels and lead him on anyway are more wrong. The guy was naive and had a warped sense of romance, the girl was horribly selfish and without feeling for someone who just wants to be with her.
I couldn't imagine leading on a girl who I knew had feelings for me. It would make me feel incredibly uncomfortable if she bought me shit and did stuff for me with the slim chance that I'd develop feelings for her. I'd see it as my personal responsibility to her and myself, to make it clear that her behaviour made me feel uncomfortable.
It exists, but it's a self-imposed exile. Leaving the friendzone is easy, either you become a boyfriend, or you disengage as a friend.
What doesn't work is not showing any kind of initiative, then getting mad about her not taking the initiative. You're not making your intentions clear, then get butthurt about a girl not answering a question you were afraid to ask her in the first place.
Sure, a girl should understand that you want to have sex with her. That doesn't require her to take any action though. Same goes for me; if I don't really want something, I'm not going to move to make it happen. The person who wants something, has to step forward and make it happen.
But instead you choose to be passive-aggressive towards girls, instead of asserting your needs and desires.
Asking to go on a date immediately suggests those romantic connotations so she'll start asking herself whether she likes you and whether you're attractive and I think its more likely to be doomed for failure unless you're physically attractive.
If you suggest a casual meet up they can briefly entertain the idea of 'is this a date' but at the end of the day its nothing more than a friendly gesture. If from said meetup they decide inside that you're cool/funny/whatever they will show signs that they enjoyed it. From there you can progress the intimacy of the things that you do together.
This has always worked for me, and I've never gone about it methodically, it just flows and that's key to make it smooth and come off as sincere. I'm a med student so its not random girls from a party but people I already have something in common with. I think that's crucial to avoid awkward silences and stuff tbh.
Um, no. It's called "dating" when people who are DATING do this
Don't lavish "just friends" with money and attention. Don't prostrate yourself before them. Save that kinda stuff for during the actual relationship.
I had crushes that were never really attainable. I just learned to not stress about these kinds of things and take it slow, which has attracted girls that are the same and don't rush into relationships and just focus on getting to know me through spending time with me.
Never done bars outside my uni so I usually know the people. I just suggest lunch somewhere nicer than usual/somewhere not too loud so we can just talk about stuff. Usually about uni because they will enjoy talking about their interests and aspirations, which contributes to their overall enjoyment of the 'date'. Just gotta make sure it flows well and you come off as interesting, but remain sincere
I have a sister, I know it all. I did my best trying to "raise" her, since our parents are shit, but she still ended up the same as everyone else. High-contrast photoshopped duckface selfies, whoring it up, buying tons of shoes, and now she's even treating me like shit. I saved her from dying when she was a kid, I don't know what the fuck is wrong with her. I've stopped talking to her now, I don't even care anymore. To think I was planning to support her financially when I eventually make 20 times what she makes. I should thank her for turning into a huge bitch, now I can be completely free.
>you should not trust them unless you are blood related
No. Do not trust women even if you've known them your whole life. Actually don't put too much trust in men either, if you want peace of mind.
Anon, it's more complicated than this. When I'm nice to someone, elderly people, other dudes, complete strangers, nobody think anything about it. I'm just one dude who randomly made their day a little better. I don't feel entitled to them sucking me of, and they don't even think about me trying to get into their pants. It only happens when it's a girl, because suddenly it makes me suspicious: I could be that guy, intelligent, nihilist, with a wicked sense of humor.
And yes, when I like a girl, I'll be nicer to her. It's not that I'm a master ruseman, it's just something you do when you like someone.
Look at girls, aren't they nicer with the persons they like?
Everybody does that. It's human.
Like >>23291209 said, it's nothing exceptional to be nice. Honest people do it and dishonest people fake it all the time.
We only "friendzone" you creeps because when we actually flat out reject you you fucking kill us for not wanting to have sex with you losers
>thinking you can save yourself by putting people in the friendzone
While you can't expect someone to have sex with you I was thinking, imagine if you had a best friend who had never had a car, and you've got a pretty nice expensive one, he helps you clean it, do maintenance on it and helps you out in general because you two are bff's, you know he really wants to at least have a go at driving once in his life and one day he asks if he could perhaps have a drive and you know he'd be gentle and look after it but he's not very experienced, you say sorry but I don't want you driving my car no hard feelings. Then that night you let some stranger down at the bar drive it home drunk and do burnouts in it.
Would it be the end of the world if you let your friend just have one little drive as long as he knows its just a one off.
Some men can't psychologically deal with not being born with Chad genes or the ability to take what they want. The world is a cruel place to them so they try and use force, but the government stops them.
All I heard was 'I don't want to live anymore.'
no, like being in a social situation in which i can talk to them. i had good luck with female neighbors & coworkers. also mutual friends... but i never had much luck going to clubs (too loud to talk), parties (5 dudes for every girl) and bars (super packed in my ciry on the weekends when i can manage to stay up late)
normies always say "join a club you find interesting" but i dont think about fun like that. i think about finding a princess and working. that's all i want, i enjoy working i don't find normie activities fun although if a gril is with me i would
but they still want a good male friend so they can recommend him as a boyfriend. they don't actually care for the guy they just want to look out for other females by recommending their good little beta male friend.
>one grill tells me she likes me, but i am not attracted to her so i turn her down
>it was on a party, everyone including my crush knows about it
>some time after that my crush finds out that i like her is obviously not into me
>even later we start talking about that time i turned the other girl down and she uses that as a metaphor to tell me how she feels about me
what a fucking whore
english is my third language hope this post makes sense
Wrong. So wrong.
Women do not risk losing their loyal orbiters. Why would they hand the leash over to another woman? They wouldn't, that's straight profit loss
But they will tell their girlfriends about the chads they like, they really don't mind sharing, and hey every girl needs a 10 incher in her life (^;
joke's on you your theory is flawed i am much more likely to kill myself
Friendzone happens when she isnt attracted to you. If you are nice, it wont work: you are just being nice. If you are trying to be cheesy or compliment her, it wont work either, you will be avoided miserably and will get a "Thanks :)" at best. Thats the Friendzone.
Jesus fucking christ you're dense, you're 10 ply bud.
It's a broad statement about all women reading the comment. Not a personal statement on your Facebook page.
Welcome to anonymity dumbshit.
I'll make fun of nice guys all day, but there is one thing that bugs me, and that's the characterization of wanting sex as something beguiling and two-faced. I've heard the argument "sex isn't special." Well if it isn't special, why are we choosy with who we want to be intimate with?
Obvious answer is that guys that fall under the "nice" category are emotionally and sexually starved, and I think people take for granted just how starved they are.
Now, I'm not a nice guy, I've never been friendzoned, even though I'm a KV. I'm just an ugly and an asshole. But I can't really fathom why no one ever counters the "Being nice is a prerequisite, everyone should be nice" argument with legions of men who women date and who aren't nice in any sense of the word.
dont grills realise that this 'nice guys' mene is not about guys being nice to get laid. Its about them forming unrequited romantic interest. I mean for fucks sake half of the friendzoned betas probably dont even care about the sex at all.
It exists but it's part betas fault.
You get in love with a female acquaintance of yours, she might not love you back. Then, you should be the one cutting contact if she doesn't reciprocate and it hurts you to stay friends. If she doesn't understand that's her problem but if you persist with the friendship not to hurt her feelings, what do you expect, you are the cuck in the first place.
This is what I do. I know I'm gonna die alone, so I just treat every girl like a dude. Generally, I try to be nice to everyone.
BUT, women see KINDNESS as FLIRTING. They constantly assume I'm trying to get in their pants even before I speak a word to them. I still have girls that try to put me in the "friendzone" because they want to take advantage of my kindness.*
*(read as: "lol anon let's hang out!! :^)" but she really just wanted me to pick her up from school and buy her lunch)
It seems like MOST women are content with keeping guys on a leash to get what they want.
>Does it exist?
No, because you can always cut ties, burn bridges, walk away, etc.
>Do men feel entitled to sex?
>Do women honestly think men AREN'T trying to have sex with them?
>so they think by being 'nice' and 'friendly' to a female, that she will eventually just realize how much of a great match he is for her
this, eventually if I'm nice enough to a girl she'll proposition me for sex and/or a relationship
The friendzone is only a thing because some men have grown up to be effeminate cowards. It's not even their fault though, they were raised by single mothers. How can anyone expect them to know how to behave like a man when they were raised by a woman?
The friendzone would not exist if these young men had fathers in their lives because one of the first lessons that a good father is going to tell you is that men don't pussyfoot around and men speak their mind. You make your intentions clear right from the start. Do you think that woman is attractive? Tell her that.
There is no friendzone when the woman knows from the beginning that you're interested in her.
Another basic lesson that many people never got because they didn't have a father in their life is the lesson on how to tell when a girl is not interested in you and it's time to just move on.
>Call her up and ask her out.
>She says yes = She's interested in you
>She says some excuse for why she's going to be busy = She's not interested and she's just trying to let you down easy.
>She says some excuse for why she's going to be busy but she offers another time when she won't be busy = She's interested in you and she is just legitimately busy on that day
Valuable life lessons that everyone should have learned from their dads when they were 13 years old.
My favorite write-up on the subject. The "friendzone" is understandable anger over perceived and tangible unfairness. And it's not something we can really do anything about.
Meaningful companionship and sex. If I just wanted to hang around and do and receive favors, I'd just hang with my male friends all the time.
Men and women desire something more. Unfortunately, it's much easier for men to never have that something more, and for women to not really value it due to it being so easily available to them (Just look at this crazy modern fad where women will go to a man's house, cuddle and watch movies with them like a couple, and then go back to their boyfriend while claiming that they're just friends, while not really understanding how meaninful these acts are to a man)
Of course the friend zone exists. It's ludicrous to believe that it doesn't and just as much so to believe that these people are being "nice" only to try to get laid. The fact of the matter is that, more often than not, the person views the other person as a friend. As time goes on their emotions develop into something different than it was. They get angry and frustrated as the way they feel is not returned.
One could look at many children with negligent and abusive parents who don't care for or want them. Many of them still look at the parent as their "mother" and will put themselves at harm to try to get their parents approval. I have seen them do things from drug running for their parent to stealing and so on and it is because they love them.
Here people aren't being nice because they necessarily want sex. They are giving the other whatever they think they want because they want their love and approval; they wish to belong. They get upset because they realize that, despite their best efforts, the person they have an attachment to is not attached to them.
>you will never understand why womens brains need attention
Somebody have that thing done by a woman who dressed like a man for a year or whatever and she almost died from lack of asspats? Said that even attractive men get treated way worse than average girls and she doesn't know how we handle it our whole lives?
So the fuck what. She is the asshole for not fucking you.
Like fur real it will be easier to break it off than u think. Don't anwser her texts of she even texts u firts. Dont talk to her in class dont go over to
>but I don't think we should be too hard on them because most of them honestly want to be with the girl and not just stick their dicks in anybody that gives them a chance, they just act like they were taught.
The difference between a "genuinely nice guy" and a "creep" is how good he looks.
You show me either of them and it's still just a dude doing what he knows to get laid. Obviously there's a couple of exceptions, like a genuinely nice gay guy who just got a boyfriend and is being nice to sluts the morning after while he's still chipper and not bitter.
Boys are taught that girls aren't that shallow, that it matters who you are on the inside. They'll eventually see what a good guy you are and will appreciate you more that you waited so long for her. For some guys, this pining over one girl goes on for years.
It's almost admirable how far some dudes will go to "earn" a girl they really like for whatever reason. Maybe she was the only one who was nice to him once. Maybe he's a weirdo and she's unable to say "no" because that would be "mean" so he still thinks he has a chance.
If guys weren't lied to and told that a girl "should like you for who you are, not what you look like" it's not quite his fault for believing it. That lesson is in our fairy tales and movies and shows we watch growing up. It's a made up situation where a girl wanted to have casual sex for 15~20 years with attractive guys (again, not awful, as long as she's honest with herself) and then settle down with Guy Who Was Waiting All That Time He's Such A Nice Guy
>tl;dr Friend zone is a myth made by those who believe that should get pussy without making it clear. Aka: "Nice guys"
"I think there's a whole species of men who think they can get girls to like them by just being gentleman, even though they never show a romantic interest, they're just gentlemen".
Do women honestly believe men are talking to them and not trying to get sex? How are they THIS stupid and deluded? It might sound mean but this is honestly what all sorts of guys think about. They want to see if they have a chance at sex and will put in the effort until they get a straight "no". If she's not giving that straight "no", she's inviting the situation because she DOES know that all men would have sex with her.
>As time goes on their emotions develop into something different than it was. They get angry and frustrated as the way they feel is not returned.
Was friends with a girl, and I remember not being attracted to her at first. For some reason I didn't like her face, but we still had a good time with each other. We went to each others houses, IMd on AIM when we got home from school, was actually legitimately friends with a girl. So I started liking her more and that got weird. Did the teenage thing at the time, asked her to be my girlfriend, and she said no. She still wanted to be friends but I couldn't do it and now I'm the asshole for developing feelings and not being able to control them while I know some other dude who thinks our interests are stupid and gay is fucking her.
This was 10 years ago and I'm still mad. You bet your ass I wasn't going to listen to how much of an asshole he was and lend condolences and and "be there for her" while she was hurt until her next date with Derek.