Is God the bad guy in the bible?
Had to go to church with the family today and i noticed something
In the bible Satan barely does anything. They say he was the snake but all the snake did was tell Eve she would gain knowledge if she ate the apple, which was true. It was god who banished adam and eve and created death and cancer and toil and pain and suffering and disease to torture them not Satan. When you die you don't go straight to hell and if you were really good god tries to rescue you, what happens is god sends you to hell himself for not measuring up, god created hell and sends us and satan there.
Satanists are often said to engage in animal sacrifice but Satan never asks for that or does that in the bible. God does, he demands animal sacrifice for thousands of years, as blood payment for the apple thing. He impregnated a teenage middle eastern girl so her mangod son could be butchered as more blood payment. This is god's thing not satan's
God is the one who kills all the first born children of Egypt for the sins of their fathers not satan. God says jesus paid the blood sacrifice back but disease and death remain, and there does not appear to be anything we can do to sufficiently repay god for the apple thing to get him to end it. Think about it, there were no viruses in Eden, so god fabricated them when he kicked us out of the garden, said jesus paid him back for that but never stopped the viruses.
God also killed everyone on earth during the Noah incident for being "wicked" but does not tell us exactly what they were doing so we don't even know how to avoid doing it again
And he burned everyone to death in Sodom and Gamorah for unspecified sins
satan never did shit
god is ok by me, he knows what normies deserve
Satan is like a really cool guy, y'know. He tells you to do stuff for yourself and not deprive you from pleasures. But also to be respectful towards others, as much as fucking destroying them if they do you any wrong.
God pretty much put us here to make us suffer. I strongly believe we're here just for his mere cruelty. But who knows...
yeah that's basically what i was thinking
god non stop kills people and does horrible shit in the bible i don't see how he is some all loving thing to thank for anything good that happens or pray to
The bible is bullshit. Only sheep believe such nonsense. If god was real he'd definitely not act like a evil and jealous person. The god in the bible sounds like the real Devil to me
Reminder God told Abraham to kill his only son by cutting his throat with a knife
i mean what the fuck, how is that something you ask someone to do? how is that even a thing, who the fuck though of that story
And there's nothing wrong with that. God is not a hippy. He's righteous and any punishments he gives out ate deserved (except the death of His Son).
The sacrifices are indicative of our need for payment for the sins we've committed against Him.
>To be honest. Satanism ain't that bad. Its pretty cool actually. Makes a lot of sense. I feel like Satanism should be the new Christianity. Except you know, it'll make sense
there was a real religion like this from biblical times that was not necessarily Satanism but thought the god of the bible was the bad guy
guess who eradicated the follows of this religion and why
>drowns the entire human race other than one guy and his family on an ark
>the good guy
E D G Y
It doesn't, really. It also doesn't really make sense that a being like God would want anything at all; let alone all of the incredibly specific and arbitrary things Christians are convinced God wants.
Check the new testament son. God has a turn around and accepts us a little better. You are thinking of the old (jew) testament. When God had to deal with those people and their idiocy. I'd be kind of an irritable God too.
i have asked my pastor about it before and he just basically didn't even get the question, his response was basically
"What part of blood sacrifice do you not understand"
as if it just naturally makes sense and it was like i was asking him why water was wet
>Believe im mangod or burn in hell forever
yeah how accepting
jesus basically invented hell; previously hell was not specified in the bible (jews don't really believe in hell) and the worst you had to worry about was god coming down and smiting you
now all of a sudden he wants to torture your ghost forever when you die too
He needs atonement because there has been a criminal act (sin) committed. He doesn't just murder for fun. Those people are not innocent. He is a infinitely holy and righteous God and they've committed treason. The fact that He hasn't wiped the earth clean is a sign of His long-suffering mercy.
the question was "why does he need blood payment, what does that have to do with anything" and the answer is "he needs blood payment"
that's not an answer
what is the reason animal blood is payment for apple eating
God would require a sign of devotion. It doesn't matter what but it has to have symbolic and real value. Blood fulfils both those.
Just be glad he chilled and no longer asks for blood sacrifices.
>Why can't I act like a dick without repercussions?
>Satan is the good guy he lets people do whatever they want
The only reason Satan gives us the time of day is to prove to god that we're worthless shits that would rather destroy ourselves than serve god.
God gave us free will to do whatever we want with our lives, but don't get upset if you don't get to paradise by being a dick. You got exactly what you wanted, a lifetime to be a dick and do whatever you want.
I always like to think of God as a dude just playing Sims
Yeah, it's fun to see prospering families and happiness, but every once in awhile you just want to fuck everything up and watch all of your characters die.
That's what God does.
It's all in the name of fun.
it was not symbolic , god literally demanded the throats of animals cut and the blood as sacrifice as the primary means of atonement for sins
asking why a god wants something like that is not some tiny little symbolic detail
i don't see how "LOL UR NO FUN AT PARTES" is a response to that honest question about a religion hundreds of millions of people still live and die for
Breaking it down simply, God is the definition of an absolute perfect being. To be allowed near God, the sin must be cleansed.
Traditionally this was done using an animal sacrifice, but God allowed his Son to come down and live as a perfect man, knowing fully well that eventually mankind would use him as the sacrifice.
The sacrifice of Jesus was the one act that allowed sin to be cleansed, as Jesus essentially is acting as the bouncer for heaven.
if god has existed forever why did he just make everything a few thousand years ago? what the hell did he do for the eternity before that?
*To elaborate a bit more on that, the sacrifice of Jesus was done in atonement for our sins, as his offering to us.
He spoke of us believing in him, and that he would take care of the rest.
> He thinks the bible says good people go to heaven.
> Not knowing child molesters who believe in Jesus go to heaven if you believe in the bible and not catholic brainwashing.
I'm getting sick of this stupid misunderstanding.
This is easily disputed as God created the world in a form of perfection, and that sin entered into the world by the hand of satan. Viruses and such things were not present at creation, or for even a started minimum of seven days afterwards.
Depends on the will of the user and their intent. Jesus as a martyr eliminated the need for that. There are ancient Hebrew rituals to show devotion and appease God (magic is real, but not like you retards think of it as) that is now unnecessary because we can have a direct and personal relationship with God.
Also yes, confessionals are scams. How do you think the Catholic Church got so powerful? All that shit is unnecessary extravagance... but if you create a situation where you cannot have a relationship with God without the aid of the church.. then of course they are going to get your tithing and more.
Read Hebrews 10, up to verse 18 at least.
God is not required to pardon sinners just like how judges are not required to pardon criminals. In fact, criminals should always be condemned. So if God chooses to do so, He can. But how can He do so and maintain His righteousness? Romans chapter 3:26.
I'd quote directly but filters are messing it up and my phone doesn't see the problem text.
It's unfortunate that this is a reality we live in. God is the authority on these matters, and the Bible is the document which bears His word.
The church is intended to be an organization which people could gather and learn the Word of God. This was due to the fact that nobody had books for themselves two thousand years ago, and the parchment with writing was highly valued.
Reading through the Bible is the only way to know the Word of God. The church is meant to give you an opportunity to learn the Word of God. Anything that the church says that falls outside of the Word of God is, quite literally, heresy.
>This is easily disputed as God created the world in a form of perfection, and that sin entered into the world by the hand of satan.
the bible does not say this, you should read genesis, god is the one who creates sickness and death
>because we ate an apple
It's more about breaking boundaries and taking a stand against god.
He has to make a statement to Satan. That humanity can't rule themselves. When the world turns to absolute shit he will intervene and "I've seen enough of this shit" similarly to the great flood.
The difference this time is that Jesus has now sacrificed himself to atone for our sins, making us able to join him.
I think you may want to refresh yourself on this matter.
The Bible states that God distinctly allows things to happen, this does not mean that God "creates" sickness and death.
Take for example a person who finds out they have cancer. In no grasp of the sense does God "magically" spawn cancer in them. But things have happened in a sort of cosmic sense that brought them to this point.
Matters of suffering are presented as a stepping stone on the path of life. Seeing the world through a sense that everything is a learning experience is what is intended.
Pretty much. He's the most petty character in the whole thing.
>creates a being in his own image
>gives him curiousity
>PUNISHMENT FOR ALL OF YOUR DESCENDANTS DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY DINDU NUFFIN.
>Yo Abe, i know you wanted a son forever, so i got you a son
>but you have to kill him now
>lol jk don't kill your son you crazy bastard.
>Instead of just making the hewbrews and shebrews free, i`m just gonna fuck Egypt up because free will
>God is love, God is forgiveness
>He has to make a statement to Satan.
I thought the statement would be that some humans are worth saving and choose to side with him of their own free will.
>That humanity can't rule themselves.
Isn't this a message for humans?
>The Bible states that God distinctly allows things to happen, this does not mean that God "creates" sickness and death.
satan does not create anything
there was no virus in eden, then god kicked us out of eden and created virues which did not previously exist to torture us for sinning
satan does not create viruses or death, god does, god "cursed the ground" and made it hard to grow food and made us toil
satan is never said to create or have the power to create anywhere in the bible
The snake told Eve specifically that she would "Become like a God" and gain a perfect knowledge of Life and Death, and specifically told her "You will not die". God tells them specifically "You will die if you eat from that tree". They eat from the tree and, big surprise, they die.
I don't get how you could possibly think the snake was telling the truth here unless you were being deliberately obtuse and letting your dislike of Christianity stand in the way of basic thinking skills.
>1) you will not die
>2) you will become like a God
They eat the fruit and they do not become like Gods, and they die. C'mon man, he's wrong on both accounts.
>blaming god for cancer and having colds
the part I don't understand is why you're not allowed to change your mind after you die
like say, an honest atheist, a man who was an atheist because he genuinely just didn't find the idea of god plausible rather because he secretly hated god or whatever, dies and sees god is real, and goes "wow, so there really is a god! I'm glad I was wrong". god goes "nah it's too late now, should've believed while you were alive" and he goes to hell? why does that have to happen?
>Also it is an answer.
it's literally not, repeating the statement blood is needed as payment does not explain why an omnipotent supernatural being would thirst for blood in the first place
>Isn't this a message for humans?
In a way, yes. Both god and Satan know that Satan's way isn't working out, but he's playing out the entire scenario before he wrecks Satan and his followers.
Satan is just trying to take as many with him as possible to the grave. As the ruler of this world he's rigging the odds in his favor.
Yes, which the snake says won't happen. God was pretty straight forward about what would happen and was actually telling them the truth when he said they'd have to die if they ate from the tree.
>God creates this perfect world
>Satan gets all jealous
>Meanwhile, Adam and Eve are just chillin' out
>Satan, understanding that humanity is God's greatest creation, knows what'll really piss him off.
>Convinces Eve to do the one thing God said not to do
>Eve convinces Adam to follow suit
>God is pissed, kicks them out of the house
>Still chill though, says we can crash in the guest house
>God can clearly see us through the front window as we're pissing on his lawn
>Says we can come back inside if we just show Him that we're sorry.
>Some say sorry, others just spit in his face and continue to fuck his property up.
>A few hundred years pass and God feels bad for everyone sleeping in the guest house because we fucked it all up
>Says to his Son, go tell them that they can come back inside
>Jesus goes to the guest house and says we can come back in
>A few people believe him, a few don't
>Eventually a bunch of them get together and just fuck his shit up
>Jesus goes back to the house and says
>Forgive them Father, they know not what they do
>God forgive us
>Says we can come back inside if Jesus thinks we're cool
>Still spitting in his face
>The snake told Eve specifically that she would "Become like a God" and gain a perfect knowledge of Life and Death, and specifically told her "You will not die". God tells them specifically "You will die if you eat from that tree". They eat from the tree and, big surprise, they die.
the snake was telling the truth, they ate from the tree and gained knowledge, and if they ate from it again they would become immortal, however god prevents this from happening by putting a "cherub" with a flaming sword by the tree to kill us if we get near it again
the snake did not lie, the snake just did not know god was going to loose it and put a firesword wielding angle there to stop us
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."....After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
Stop making Satan out to be a good guy/innocent bystander.
God has done things which we wont always understand. We weren't always meant to.
I don't know about you guys , but i don't want to burn in a sulfur pit with weeaboos and bronies for all eternity. Trust in his judgement.
they don't read it
they just think they know what it says
that's literally the answer, the christians in my family carry their bible back and forth to church year in and year out but they have never literally read the whole thing
The snake lied, definitely, but can you blame Adam and Eve for eating the fruit? The only other being they had interracted with in their entire existence at that point was God. The guy who knows everything yet didn't have the foresight to say "there's this dick around, don't believe his lies." In fact, why not just NOT put the tree there to avoid a chance of them fucking up?
If you follow back origin stories there's actually an entire pantheon, but God is the head god and only he gets worshiped because another god in the pantheon kept desiring kid sacrifices, so because of this discrepancy some of the things in the bible get attributed to the CEO when in reality it was a sadistic offshoot manager. Iirc.
However Adam and Eve is older than that point and is a bushman legend just blaming women for all of men's problems which is what is going on in RK9 90% of the time.
>The snake lied,
no he ddint see:
It's all about having faith, the ability to believe in god despite not finding any hard evidence to support your claims.
But trying to find god is one way to get closer to him. The fact that you've tried your best to find proof of him can be seen as a way of devotion.
If you truly regret not taking the leap of faith you probably get in anyways, if you've been a good guy otherwise. Same goes for people that never got the chance to perceive religion or make any moral choices (dead babies, etc.)
>still being this obtuse and letting your bias against Christianity get in the way of basic thinking.
The story is like a couple of paragraphs man, how are you doing this? The snake literally says "If you eat from this tree, this fruit right here, you will become like Gods and you will definitely not die!"
God says "If you eat from this tree, you will have to die." They died, bro. The snake was literally lying to them, there's no other way around it.
>B-but if they ate from this OTHER tree, then they would have lived forever and then the snake wasn't lying!
Yeah, if only he told them to eat from THAT tree instead of the one that would have gotten them killed, lel.
I honestly feel fine placing responsibility on them for it. The directions are pretty clear: "If you eat the fruit on this tree you will die and there's no buts about it, sorry." They ate the fruit, and then they died. It sucks but there it is.
Well first you have to remember that He was God, the source of ask life, in Whom ere live and move and have our being. And He existed for all eternity, and yet somehow us subjected to death for three days.
Not only that, but He endured the full wrath of God intended for sin and sinners. Christ, though he did not sin, was treated as sin and took the punishment of those who would believe upon Himself. This is shown in the epistles. And before His crucifixion, on the night of betrayal, He was pleading for the cup to be removed. The cup symbolizes the wrath of God, as shown in the Old Testament which Jesus knew very well.
And even more so, He did not have to die, but it was His desire to redeem God's creation. His creation was alienated from the holiness of God when Eve ate the fruit, and only a life of infinite value could make full atonement of crime against an infinitely righteous and holy God.
Not only that, but it is also explicitly stated that at the time, Adam and Eve were oblivious to the concept of morality. It's unfair to punish someone who isn't aware of consequence.
"Cursed the ground" is commonly known to refer to Him allowing the earth (essentially all forms of matter) degrade over time.
When God cursed the ground, he didn't create anything. Nor did he destroy anything. He had forsaken his creation (mankind), because it was no longer pure. With mankind essentially exiled to earth, God chose to "curse" it by forsaking it, to an extent.
This is how things are said to degrade, because of a lack of perfection. A virus was originally not harmful, as shown by the way a virus develop into something worse over time.
>God creates this perfect world
>then makes the rest of the world a giant death trap shithole
>Adam and Eve get rused by a being God himself created (why?) into a tree God put in the perfect world that was NOT meant to be eaten (why?)
>Punishes them and their descendants until he decides to send his spirit son to "die" for us.
yes he did read it, he cursed the ground and caused thorns to grow specifically
so god created the earth and the universe but not virues, make perfect sense
I spent ten years reading all apologetics I could find and reading/listening to sermons (read the bible too of course) because I think christianity is beautiful and I wish I could believe it. prayed on my knees numerous times begging to get some feeling that something was out there listening. it never worked, I can't believe.
the weirdest thing I realized recently is that as a result of all this seeking I've come to love God, even though I still don't believe he exists.
>If you eat the fruit on this tree you will die and there's no buts about it, sorry.
But this is GOD giving the instructions to beings he JUST created and they had no sense of morality. They where esentially children. They had no idea what the hell was going on and who the devil was, and God didn't even bother giving his new creations a heads up. Either God was just setting Adam and Eve up to fail or he was being purposefully dumb to lead them to their own devices to get done in
Blood represents the life. When you sin against Him your life is required. This then begs the question of how exactly animal blood pays for your personal sin. It doesn't.
As mentioned in Hebrews and other books, the animal blood is only a shadow and does not pay for sin. The blood of Christ is what pays for our sin fully and justifies us before God.
you are reaching
they didn't die from eating from the tree, god runs in and does a bunch of shit and punishes the snake and makes the snake eat dirt
basically nobody knew what was really going on in the garden, the snake was not "lying" he had no idea god was going to come down and fuck everyone involved in the apple eating like that
it's not like the snake said he was not going to fuck eve then fucked her as a deceptive trick
There's no indication given that they're retards, anon. If someone tells you "bro if you do this you will die", and you do it and then die, that's tough luck but don't be surprised.
>only a life of infinite value could make full atonement of crime against an infinitely righteous and holy God.
What you don't understand is no life was taken. A "life of infinite value" wasn't paid, so the entire ordeal jesus went through on Earth is fucking pointless. How God, who is all-knowing and had been around forever, couldn't predict that that would happen is fucking dumb.
Perhaps you should try actually reading the Bible at some point.
It's pretty clearly stated that Satan is pretty much that jealous kid who wants to fuck your shit up because he thinks God is too privileged.
Hell is quite literally designed for Satan and all the angels who followed him, not for mankind. It's just where you end up eventually should you choose to follow him and not God.
St Thomas Aquinas had the same problem, he said he eventually made a "Leap to faith" which is often misquoted as a "Leap of faith"
but a "leap to faith" means he stopped trying to find reasons to believe and was just like "fuck it i am just going to believe all this shit for no reason"
it worked for him, maybe you should try that
I has to count for something. What more can he ask for than a guy that loves him and wants him to exist?
I meant most people that say that they truly know has experienced some sort of personal "miracle", but not everyone can experience a miracle or suffer from Jerusalem syndrome.
It's called Gnosticism, OP.
Congratulations on waking up.
Hell isn't in the bible.
I can agree with this. Either god is all-powerful and Satan's evil was only created by his power or god is not all-powerful and therefore he's not God.
I'm leaning towards the latter since things don't always seem to go the way he wants.
You know God exists. Everyone does, whether they repress the truth in unrighteousness or not (Romans 1). No one can live life as we do without Him. Without God there is no basis for abstract transcendental entities which are necessary to have objective laws. And if we have no objectivity, then morality, truth and logic are all illusions. But no one lives like that, and it makes no sense. Without truth and logic we can't even think or speak or behave rationally.
they die because god comes down and kills them
not because the tree was poison
the snake only knew enough to know they would not drop dead from eating from the tree, which was the truth as the snake knew it, the snake had no idea god was going to come down and kill his children and force the snake to eat dirt
how could he have know that, it's not a lie, it's a round about troll by god on all of us by giving the snake imperfect knowledge
if I said to you "Don't drink that beer or you will die" and someone else later walked by and said "lol bro one beer wont' kill you, just drink it" and then i came in and killed you thus fufilling my threat, that does not make the other guy a liar, it makes me a giant troll for putting everyone in that situation being that i knew what i was going to do and nobody else did
Fuck off weeb.
yes, I'm familiar with the explanation that I just secretly don't want to believe. it's pointless trying to argue with it, there's no way for me to prove what's in my mind to you over the internet.
>If someone tells you "bro if you do this you will die", and you do it and then die, that's tough luck but don't be surprised.
Well, first, i have awareness of what death is. They didn't.
Second, the only beings they had interracted with where themselves and God. The fourth one was the devil, who they had no idea existed. Or was even bad. For all they know he was God's messenger. Or maybe even God's creator. How is it their fault that something way above them fooled them into making a mistake? Worse yet, how can a God of forgiveness not even understand the situation and see how they had been used in this situation? Even humans, with all our flaws, can understand when others are manipulated into doing things they don't understand. Yet the all-knowing Lord couldn't? Really? Not only that but he's all-seeing too, where the fuck was he when the devil was just walking up to Eve and lying to her? Why not stop her before she fucks up?
His insitence on punishing them AND their offspring is what leads to shit like Cain and etc being born, which just increases the number of bad people on the planet. He could have just killed Adam and Eve and Created Tom and Jane and removed the tree but nope, lets just create a world of shit instead.
Angels also have free will.
In a way all this shit is god still having some respect for Satan and giving him the time of day to prove him wrong. He was his best and brightest before he created humanity after all.
Life is required because, before a righteous God, sin requires punishment otherwise he'd no longer be righteous. And to pay for sinning against an infinite God, the best one can offer is their whole life.
They die, which is exactly what God tells them will happen.
>the snake only knew enough to know they would not drop dead
Have you even read the section in question? It's only a few paragraphs long. You're reaching here by trying to find support in things that aren't even in the text. Nowhere does it say "the snake knew they wouldn't drop dead IMMEDIATELY, but didn't know if they would die later". It does say, explicitly, "the snake told them that they would not die." Period.
It's their responsibility because they knew in advance what would happen if they did it, and then they did it.
>necessary to have objective laws
Laws don't have to be objective. Humans don't have to base their morality on god.
There is no objectivity when it comes to humans so yes, technically truth doesn't exist in an absolute and human sense.
But that's no reason for humanity and society to fall apart.
Yes. The Sumerians are describing the same Archons.
>It's their responsibility because they knew in advance what would happen if they did it, and then they did it.
See. you're not addressing any points at all. You're doing what everyone in church does and just address broad strokes when people try to discuss this with you.
You're sitting in a chair, in your heated house, talking to other people online in comfort, and you're bad-mouthing God, who allowed all of these things to happen.
The prophet Elijah was fed by birds while starving in the desert, and still thanked God for watching over him.
Why do we need "transcendental entities" to determine how the universe works? Why isn't it possible for the laws to result from the behaviour of particles? Also, anything that has transcend reality that still plays a role in said reality, hasn't transcended shit.
This. The snake in the garden is a liberator and ancient Christians knew this before the Romans established a cult of the Demiurge.
>You're sitting in a chair, in your heated house, talking to other people online in comfort, and you're bad-mouthing God, who allowed all of these things to happen.
So you give God credit for my comfort, how about those billions who struggle to find a meal every day?
If truth doesn't exist then how can you even make a truth claim about truth let alone anything? Having no objective truth and logic is self-refuting. You use them to make claims. If they don't exist you can't make any claims that are right and true.
>giving him the time of day to prove him wrong
Yeah, all the humans of the world suffer because god can't even control the universe he created.
And that's who we're supposed to worship.
If only the physical exists, we lose objectivity because then laws of thought (including laws of logic) are completely subject to each person's own brain. And no one has the same brain so there is no objectivity there.
Well yeah, we're talking a guy with all the power in the universe yet somehow decided to create little beings who are meant to worship him ALL the time but somehow decided to let them have free will so that they can CHOOSE to worship him all the time. He's an egotistical maniac if he's real.
The creator arranged all possibility, included the possibility of horrible suffering. He is either malevolent or incompetent. There is no satisfactory answer to the problem of evil and suffering. All the mental gymnastics provided by centuries of theologians have failed to invent one.
The Demiurge is malevolent. Accept it. You already know it to be true. All Christians of every sect have felt the immanence of Satan. They sense that evil exists, yet refuse to entertain the idea that it's the "god" they're worshiping that causes this sensation.
The true God had no hand in the creation of this awful universe.
Time is only valuable when you are required to live by it.
The only reason time matters for anyone is because trying to sit and do nothing for an extended period of time will eventually cause starvation.
Think about it; God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. Time is not a factor to him in any way.
The god of the Bible (i.e. Torah) and the Qur'an are violent, judgmental and harsh.
Some kid named Paul tried to retcon god into being loving but it's difficult to change the past. At least he tried.
butthurt demiurge worshiper
keep worshiping the archons that are robbing your loosh
It was heavily prophesied that he'd rise from the dead, so its not as if the sacrifice was of any meaning considering the guy knew he'd be back. Its not really death if you know you'll be back eventually.
>Says the Bible is fiction
>Hasn't even read it
Until you read the Bible from cover to cover, how can you even state that it's fiction?
Just the fact that the Bible contains multiple historical records and lineages is qualification enough to grant it status as a chronicle, not to mention every other scripture within.
>And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
>The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Can't it be interpreted that only those three will be stuck in hell forever, as it mentions later that regular people get thrown in there as a second death.
>does not tell us exactly what they were doing so we don't even know how to avoid doing it again
angels falled had sex with woman thought people sacred things created nephilim world become wicked so god cleaned it
>And he burned everyone to death in Sodom and Gamorah for unspecified sins
>satan never did shit
you are missing a point, my friend
they did gay stuff, sexual wickedness, even tried to fuck the angels of god
satan is not the punisher, he is the "idea giver"
if you folllow his words, you are punished by god. dont forget that he is an angel of god. just like how eve listened the snake and got punished by god.
ignorance. read above
he was testing his obedience
makes sense in what way? eleborate
there is no good or bad. god is not good, he is neutral.
Protip: Jesus was an alien.
The guiding light was a UFO
The virgin birth was Jesus given to Mary/ hybrid implanted in her womb
Easter is Jesus being removed from the tomb by aliens
Dying for our sins was choosing not to be rescued, to both protect us and set an example
Ten commandments was Moses meeting with UFO atop Mount Sinai
Jesus' miracles were made possible because superior alien genes
Judaism and Christianity were alien inventions to encourage society to develop in the way beneficial to them. They wanted peaceful evolution to harvest our mutations and create hybrid races.
Everything else is irrelevant. Go to church, you're worshiping a lie.
An all powerful and all knowing being wouldn't let any of that shit happen. If it is true, then it has led to do much suffering for so many. Am I supposed to believe that children dying of cancer is evil for a good reason? What sort of capricious being would allow that? Furthermore, how can we inherit the sin in the garden of Eden? That's not righteous. That's not fair.
new guy here.
To go back to your original point, when you said they didn't know who he was at all, you're adding words to the text.
The Bible doesn't state whether or not they knew who he was, it states that he appeared to them in the form of a snake.
Pretty good disguise, if you ask me.
>god is not good, he is neutral.
bahahahahahaha REALLY? Nigga have you even read a bible in your life? I'm not gonna bother arguing with this, i`ll let the christians argue that
Ah okay I ser. But I still posit that Christ did receive the full punishment of God required for sin against Him, and He did truly die, and was dead for three days even such that his believers seemed to all lose hope of His coming back. His punishment was on the cross, and He endured it completely (it is finished). If the price of sin was not fully paid, then in that case he would not rise again. His resurrection is our hope that God indeed accepted His atonement for our sin.
So this is gonna be one of those situations where since the answer isn't known we give the benefit of the doubt to God, right? If not i'd say he was just using a form they'd be familiar with. Just like God did with the burning bush.
I'm not saying that we necessarily have access.I'm just saying that it's there. There obviously has to be some sort of governing force, otherwise there's complete chaos. All I'm trying to say is that I don't see why that it has to be some "transcendental entity", and why it can't be the result of natural processes.
That isn't hell as we understand it though.It says Abyss. And it's Satan's prison.
There's also no mention of immortal souls and people going to the abyss too.
Also Satan isn't in there now, not until the 1000 years.
this guys knows
jesus told at bible that they were old rules and not accurate anymore
you need to know what will happen if you dont listen or you might do whatever
this is somehow accurate. needs lotsa explanation tho
The Bible describes that hell and paradise were originally separated by a chasm, and that hell poured over into paradise when heaven was "unlocked" for mankind. It states in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man that there is no escape from hell, formerly known as hades.
It's fair to think god is true neutral in a non-biblical sense. I believe this at least, a God who leans toward a side of polarity would never have created this universe the way it is.
This brings up the question of God being unable to forgive. Nothing humanity did is in any way a thread to an all-knowing, all-powerful God. If he'd just forgiven Adam and Eve for fucking up once, everything would have been solved. If he'd just NOT put the tree in the garden, none of this would have happened. If he'd warned Adam and Eve of the devil's existence, none of this would have happened.
The way you just explained it also doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme of things. So Jesus was tortured for a bit and died temporarily. This is of no bearing to a being who is from heaven and knows he'll return.
good is a human understanding concept
there is no good or bad. there is just evolving of soul. and god is the one who arranges the scene. how you will use the scene is up to you, and some of your actions will end up with suffering, and some will end up with niceness
>It's fair to think god is true neutral in a non-biblical sense
>in a non-biblical sense
See, the problem here is Christianity is based entirely on the bible being the word of God. The moment you start saying shit like that is the moment we have to discard the bible in its entirety.
God created man in his image, which is why we have an innate desire to create and invent things, even life in some ways.
We also put restrictions and deal with lesser beings that act out of their control. Rabid pets get put down, fear of AI's that won't be devoted to us, etc.
If we can make logic that would make it subjective to us. We'd be able to make any logic we wanted, but that doesn't work. The law of non-contradiction is always true. It well never be false. We cannot fabricate a logic that contradicts this. If the law of non-contradiction we're ever false, I can't imagine how our communication, intelligence or reality itself would exist.
For example, the law of non-contradiction states that, in the same sense and at the same time, it cannot be both A and not-A are true. This is the basis by which we categorize and differentiate things and even talk intelligibly. If that law were false, then our words would have no meaning because they would both mean what we say and also mean what we did not say. And if that's true, our words essentially mean everything, and this every one of our words would have absolutely zero difference and nothing would be communicated intelligibly.
These laws of thought cannot be subjective to our arbitrary construction.
man created god in his own image, an angry god who punishes of his children who disobey and is constantly killing people and demanding love in return
because man was not creative enough to think past his own petty emotions and the people who wrote the bible were middle eastern assholes
just like today, if the middle east decided to come up with a new religion today, what goes on over there and what kind of god would they create?
the same kind
I didn't know not believeing something which I can't believe because it sounds like utter bullshit was part of being a dick. I could be the nicest dude in the world and still go to hell because I wasn't gullible. Don't try to act like the stupid system described in Christianity has any semblance of justification, that we're just dicks so we deserve it.
1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Corinthians Chapter 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
The core concept is there in the Bible, plainly written - many will be deceived into think that satan is God, or that there are many gods. The works of evil are the result of corruption and deception.
John 3:17 - And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
fun ideas. not correct but a perspective that i somehow agree
your moms virginity
>To be allowed near God, the sin must be cleansed.
this is correct in a sense of how karma works. rest is not tho
there is no another being as god. god is the sum of everything, which is us
>Says God doesn't know what he's doing
You forget one thing - God knows everything, and just because you don't see the end of the story, just believe that there's an ending.
Everything happens for a reason, my friend.
Your problem is that you've assumed that every person is inherently righteous and does deserve punishment, but the Bible tells us otherwise.
And regarding the inheritance, that's simply how God designed the family. The father represents the household, so his sins fall upon his children. Then Adam sinned and so we also inherited that sinful nature.
At this point you'd basically be saying that God's ways are wrong as judged by your supreme standards. But who is God here? Why is it unjust for God to define the family like so? Did He not create it?
It's a hard situation to understand, because we don't know what went on in Eden or even how much time elapsed between creation and man's fall from grace.
It's a question with a moot point, because regardless Eve went against the will of God. He gave a commandment and she purposely disobeyed.
Even with your beer story, when your bro told you not to drink it and you went against his will, you defied his order. And for that, Eve was punished.
What's the best book and why is it acts?
>Sequel to the Jesus quadrology
>Regular people performing miracles
>Jewish sorcerer named Bar-Jesus gets rekt
>Lengthy trial in the courthouse
Because natural processes don't explain objective laws of thought (an example of transcendental entity). If our thoughts are only the result of our brain and its electrochemical processes, then our thoughts cannot be objective, because no one has the same brain. If you're just going to say "there has to be some force," that's an arbitrary answer.
Rev. 20 -
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
everybody will go to heaven eventuall. its just a matter of how much bad karma you have, and you will pay those in hell. hell has circles. the one who will suffer longer is the satan himself
everything were in the creation. just that the evolution of soul was too slow that god brought satan for bein a catalyst
>Depends on the will of the user and their intent. Jesus as a martyr eliminated the need for that. There are ancient Hebrew rituals to show devotion and appease God (magic is real, but not like you retards think of it as) that is now unnecessary because we can have a direct and personal relationship with God.
it is because soulds evolved to that point after thousands of years. why do you think the rules were different before? god made a mistake? lol no. because people were not ready and needed different rules for evolving. think like lower classes of school
>Even with your beer story, when your bro told you not to drink it and you went against his will, you defied his order. And for that, Eve was punished.
Again, i`m not an omniscient being and even i can process the situation. The 10 commandments say "thou shall not kill" yet God instructs his followers to kill loads of times and they're all willing to do it. He doesn't say "well, i know i told you to kill but i also said don't kill. hell for you, friendo." A just God would have understood the situation or at least put precautions to prevent the situation (something as easy as NOT putting the tree in the garden, or warning Adam and Eve of the devil)
>It's more about breaking boundaries and taking a stand against god.
no. its the represantation of free will
>God distinctly allows things to happen, this does not mean that God "creates" sickness and death.
god created everything
>But things have happened in a sort of cosmic sense that brought them to this point.
there is no cosmic sense which god has not created
god created everything as it is and wanted it to be like it was, is and will
thats how it seems from a normal perspective if you read it with face value yes
>Clearly has never had a moocher living with them
When does the forgiveness end?
The whole reason that any of this happens is because God knows that with our free will, we are capable of making wrong choices.
I still remember my first cigg I ever smoked, my father forgave me and I told him I wouldn't ever do it again. 8 years later and I'm sitting here chain smoking.
>the one who will suffer longer is the satan himself
Lucifer gets created by god as his right hand man, Lucifer sees that god is a dick and rebels, gets sent to hell for all eternity.
Why again are we worshiping a god that can't even create a trustworthy sidekick?
>thats how it seems from a normal perspective if you read it with face value yes
Which is how any text should be read. Reading the bible when you already believe it is just reaffirming your own belief and you don't actually learn from it.
>When does the forgiveness end?
It doesn't. You can forgive someone over and over.
science is satan
snake was tellin the truth
god created the whole scene for the utter development of humans
god made his angels bow infront of humans, because we will be god with our free will when the journey of soul ends. and we needed satan for that. because if there is only goodness, then you cant choose, therefore there would be no free will
The problem is not if sin is a threat. The problem is God's righteousness must be maintained. See what I wrote shortly here: >>24078016
Regarding His punishment, we can clearly see in the Bible in the Gethsemane garden that he was deathly afraid of what He was to endure, so afraid that He was sweating blood when praying there on the night before His betrayal.
And of course He would rise again. Everything would cease to exist if God died and simply did not return. Where would He even be? Every soul is eternal and God governs where humans go when they die physically. I'm not saying Jesus went to Hell, but both heaven and hell are God's domain; one for His eternal mercy and grace, and the other for His eternal righteous wrath. Moreover. God is the eternal one, the great I AM, the source of all life. Death cannot contain Him.
best book is EcclesiasticsEverything is meaningless." 3 What does man gain from all his labor at which he toils under the sun? 4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever. 5 The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. 6 The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. 7 All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. 8 All things are wearisome, more than one can say. The eye never has enough of seeing, nor the ear its fill of hearing. 9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. 10 Is there anything of which one can say, "Look! This is something new"? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time. 11 There is no remembrance of men of old, and even those who are yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow.
>yfw someone laid down a massive fucking truth bomb right in the middle of the shit sandwich that is the bible
That's because you're talking about the worst version of bible. The one that doesn't make sense, because the church didn't want people to find the answers on their own, they watned to priests to have the monopoly on religious knowledge.
Seriosuly, everything including the child killing, why jesus had to die, why god needed a sacrifice in the past, it's all in King James bible or the Torah. Read up if you need answers.
everything is created by god
he is created to rebel and do his duty in the scene of life
there is no god other than the whole, sum, which is us
these are just metaphores
>Which is how any text should be read.
not if you are capable of more
Are you one of the earlier posters of this thread posting about the blood? I've answered your questions so far. Maybe you missed my last answer here: >>24078600
Also do remember that truth abd morality are transcendental entities like logic, so since He is a righteous and moral God, yes He needs blood.
As much as i'd like to keep arguing with you i just realized you've probably never looked at christianity from outside of it, so there's no proving anything to you.
My advice is read the bible yourself, and read it from a neutral perspective, instead of having a bias one way or another.
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
yes we know he needs blood because he needs blood thus explaining everything
does that really make sense to you in your mind? that God used to command middle eastern people to sacrifice animals for blood payment?
is a simpler answer not that stupid people came up with some stupid fucking shit in the middle east and got everyone to believe it vs. the creator of the universe actually needing blood?
all of it
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
>jesus mat 5:18
"the law" refers to the old testament's 613 laws
If you're least in heaven you still get in right?
The 10 commandments can be broken down into two categories, the sins against God and the sins against others, with others being a very personal concept. When they reference "thou shalt not kill", the Hebrew translation is lost in a sense that it means thou shalt not commit murder.
If it helps, you can sleep easy at night knowing that nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that God is playing with semantics.
And as for the tree being in the garden, we must remember that the garden was created by God, for himself. We were just guests.
jesus said any sin can be forgiven except blasphemy against the holy ghost
so he may have been saying that all the laws still apply from the old test but you can be forgiven if you break some of them but there will still be consequences in heaven but you still get in
Remember we're talking about Christian questions, so it's valid to answer a question about Christianity with a Christian answer. Man's view has no say as Christianity is defined in the Bible so a question regarding the consistency of the Bible must be answered from the Bible.
There is no neutral ground. Either God is the source of all things, including truth and knowledge or He is not and we only have absurdity. And the Christian position is to take the Bible as the word of God, wholly true.
I've read all of these posts, and the person you're talking to is more versed on the scripture than I am. I would go so far as to say that he is probably the most knowledge person in regards to the Bible in this whole thread.
>kills a whole asston of people
>wants us not to fuck
>asks for sacrifices for seemingly no reason
>fucks with people for no reason other than 'muh test of faith'
god is basically normie girls.
Yes, ours explained in Hebrews 10 which i think I already mentioned but can't quote because I'm on phone. Read like the first 18 verses. Yes He did command those ancient Israelites to spill animal blood, but He does not actually use that blood to atone, because it cannot. The animal blood is a mere shadow of the blood that does atone (the blood of Christ aka the Lamb of God). Just read Hebrews 10.
>Spares a whole asston of people
>Explicitly says to procreate
>Asks for sacrifices for a very specifically stated reason
>Lets shit happen of its own accord and doesn't interfere because it's the only way to learn
God is basically God
>You can forgive them for catching it, but you still don't want them in your house.
I wouldn't need to forgive them because its not their fault they got ebola, and in that scenario kicking someone out would only lead to the spread of ebla, as it did sin. Best option would be for me to leave and let them stay in a confined area( the house) and to get them help.
>By fulfilling the old testament law though his death then the OT law no longer applies? How is that not abolishing the law?
oh i see what you mean
here's the deal; Jesus studied the old law and was a very smart person and a sensitive person, as he walked around town when he grew up he saw horrible shit happening, he saw people stoning women to death for not being virgins, he saw people just in general being horrible to each other and he was trying to get them to stop, but in trying to get people to stop (for instance) stoning other people to death he got the local government (the pharisees, the jews) who were being occupied by the romans... pissed off
so they were following Jesus around and trying to catch him telling people to disobey god's law. .If they caught him doing that they could have him killed by the Romans, they were also trying to get him to tell people to break roman law.
So basically Jesus was trying to tell people to break the law but not break the law at the same time.
It's very fucking confusing and it's why nothing really makes sense.
Jesus was saying "don't stone people but you have to follow every single one of the old laws, which tells you to stone people"
they finally caught him trying to get around all this by saying he was the son of god so it was OK for him to say this shit and crucified him for it
thus making the problem a million times worse
My apologies, let me go ahead and stop bothering with metaphors.
(1) God was gracious to warn Adam about sin and its consequences. God told Adam not to eat of the fruit of the forbidden tree. He told him that if he did, he would die (Genesis 2:15-17).
(2) When Adam sinned, God did not immediately put Adam to death, as his sin deserved. Instead, God sought Adam out, and exposed his sin (Genesis 3:8-13). God also indicated the consequences Adam and his wife would experience because of their sin (Genesis 3:8-19).
(3) God promised to provide a cure for sin and death (Genesis 3:15). He also provided Adam and Eve with coverings (3:21).
(4) God graciously removed Adam and Eve from the garden, and prevented them from returning to it. He kept them from eating of the tree of life, lest they live forever in their sin (3:22-24).
funny how you think quoting that is a logical explanation for an omnipotent being needing blood
>why does god need me to rape children as stated in macabies 23?
because macabies 23 dude
>implying not-killing is a good trait and not neutral
>except don't when you haven't done this arbitrary ritual
>implying normie cunts don't demand sacrifices too "if you love me you would delete your pron"
>implying god doesn't fuck with people
>sending bears to kill kids
>turning a guy's waifu to salt
>giving uglies shit for the way he made them
>just all of Job's life, really
>implying these things are not fucking with people
face it, god is what would happen if you gave a normie upperclass brattish girl too much power.
This entire thread is like a real life episode of X-Files, damn.
I am not religious and some of the shit I read here sounds terrifying
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
>quotes something not found in the Bible as God's Word
Show me where it says rape?
Fairly certain that a normie upperclass brattish girl wouldn't take the time to feed a starving man in the desert (Elijah), or to provide relief to a man who had just fought against everything she said for him to do (Jonah)
>Jesus was saying "don't stone people but you have to follow every single one of the old laws, which tells you to stone people"
what the fuck
how does this make sense
>wouldn't feed a starving man
nah she would help a hobo, but only to look good in front of her friends
>wouldn't provide relief to a dick
we both know normie girls love providing 'relief' to chads.
>Fairly certain that a normie upperclass brattish girl wouldn't take the time to feed a starving man in the desert (Elijah), or to provide relief to a man who had just fought against everything she said for him to do (Jonah)
or send bears to kill children if they call you bald
"From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. 'Go on up, you baldhead!' they said. 'Go on up, you baldhead!' He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of the youths. And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria."
- II Kings 2:23-25
Sorry I'm kind of jumping in this but hopefully I understood your question.Read Hebrews 10 and Romans 3:27 and continue to 4. Christ fulfilled and abolished the law as a means of atonement. We still live by the law after having a fuller understanding of the whole Bible in its entirety (as best as we can).
Deuteronomy 29:29 -
The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Sometimes, we just gotta take the time to remember that we're dealing with an omniscient being here.
Because, in the same vein that the catholic church operates, the pharisees were an extremely devout sect of the church that would read way too far into things and start making up shit that wasn't in the Bible to begin with.
People get too zealous and lose their bearings on things, what Jesus wanted was for us to understand the law, know it, and live by it.
Well, I've gotta get back to work but it was a great pleasure to have a solid discussion about the Bible on 4chan without it being entirely derailed.
My advice is to read the Bible. Keep reading it and don't stop, it's the only way to understand it. All questions can be answered through it, if you take the time to read it.
I summarized it for you in text also. It was to foreshadow Christ's death. Is this not a wholly Christian answer? Christ is attested of and magnified in the OT, and the ancient Israelites were able to receive the benefits of the future work of Christ since those who believed were essentially putting their faith in that foreshadowed work.
Exactly. If there really were a supreme creator God I don't see why he would be so fixated on something as trival as human morality when there are so many other things he could teach people if he chose to reveal himself. The human discovery of electricity would have been seen as more divine than a basic moral system of compassion and "tolerance" if it had been revealed by someone seen as the son of God.
The Serpent is never referred to as Satan anywhere save for the Book of Revelation...in Genesis, it was a talking snake, because in myths animals talk...wouldn't Eve have been alarmed if a snake spoke to her if such a thing was not common?
At any rate, no, the Serpent did not lie. Adam and Eve did gain the knowledge of Good and Evil, and in that respect became like the gods (yes, gods...Genesis speaks of the Elohim...which is plural. And no, the ancient Hebrews did not believe in the Trinity, so don't try that as an excuse).
And no, Adam and Eve did not die from eating the fruit. The common apologetic answer for this is that they did die, eventually, because eating the fruit rendered them mortal, made them susceptible to death.
But actually go back and read the story. Adam and Eve were always mortal. They were going to die regardless of whether they ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. How do I know?
Because after they eat the fruit of said knowledge, God (well, gods, "Elohim" again) says that Adam and Eve must be driven out before they eat of the Tree of Life. Because if they did the humans would live for ever and truly be like unto gods, with both immortality and knowledge.
I know they don't mention that in church. But it's there. Read the story for yourself.
Adam and Eve were created to live, reproduce, and die. They were NEVER meant to be immortal. The Bible says so itself.
I think the Church basically invented hell... the descriptions from the bible were very vague "thrown outside where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth" which could also be interpreted as those who want to be accepted had not been accepted. Heck, /r9k/ has a bunch of people who have been "thrown outside"of normie society and they figuratively wail and grind their teeth.
>Because, in the same vein that the catholic church operates, the pharisees were an extremely devout sect of the church that would read way too far into things and start making up shit that wasn't in the Bible to begin with.
pretty sure God directly told Moses to stone slutty women to death
Okay so we a sinner who has committed treason against the Ruler, Who has righteousness as one of His traits. So the Ruler is also Judge over His creation , and He has two options.
1. Exact retribution (either immediately or delayed) on the sinner
2. Grant mercy through forgiveness.
God can choose either one He according to His good pleasure.
The only apparent inconsistency here is how is God still righteous if He lets a sinner go free? The answer is that the sinner's, if they believe, sin is paid for by Christ.
>"From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. 'Go on up, you baldhead!' they said. 'Go on up, you baldhead!' He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of the youths. And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria."
what is going on here
did this happen in the official bible?
so in the real bible some guy is walking along and some kids call him bald and god sends bears to kill 40 children?
that actually happens, it's not a dream sequence or taken way out of context?
i don't know the context for it, no, but i do know it happens.
then again god turns some guy's wife into salt.
and he tries to wrestle with a guy (jacob), and, even though he uses 'god powers' to pop Jacob's hip out of his socket he fucking loses.
found the whole bear thing's chapter though. http://www.drbo.org/chapter/12002.htm
the bear part itself is by the bottom.
>so in the real bible some guy is walking along and some kids call him bald and god sends bears to kill 40 children?
out of loving mercy anon
see god is perfect and he can't be around sin so he sent bears to kill the children for calling the guy bald as ordered by baldy
god is just so perfect it's hard to understand
he works in mysterious ways
>this is what christfags actually believe
The one thing I hate about western Christians is how they horribly misinterpret Satan's role in the Bible. He's the keeper of the damned, he himself is *NOT* a bad guy, rather, he's just the ruler of hell.
You don't have to be a kek to be righteous
God is righteous and has set His laws for us to obey, and righteousness demands payment for sin (i.e. disobeying any of His laws even once). What does a judge do with a convicted criminal? Sentence him of course. So what's a fitting sentence for a finite being who has committed treason against the God of the universe? Is demanding his life not fitting?
The animal blood is a foreshadow of Christ's blood. And that blood represents the finished work (payment) of Christ for the sins of man. God requires our lives for our sin, and blood represents life. The life of Christ was perfect; He never sinned, He fully obeyed the law. Thus His life was a satisfactory payment for sin. Christ fulfilled the law in our stead, and imputes that fulfillment to us if we believe in Him as Lord and Savior.
Animal blood -> Christ's blood = Christ's life = substitution for our life = payment to God.
Let me clear things up What do you do when you sentence someone for a crime?
1. Punish them
2. Dont punish them
Now you see these two things exhaust alltwo choices in this scenario no?
>Let me clear things up What do you do when you sentence someone for a crime?
let me clear things up
omnipotent beings can do whatever they want
jesus could have chased everyone's soul's into pigs then turned the pigs into unicorns and let them live in as narwhals in bliss on the moon forever
He's not the ruler of hell. Satan defied God, so just like this humans who don't receive justification for their defiance through faith in Christ as Lord and Savior, Satan is destined to hell for punishment for their sins. God is the Ruler of all places. Hell is full of His wrath alone.
Yeah but God is orderly so He set up a system we can understand. He didn't just randomly part forgiveness to people without payment or He'd stop being righteous.
All those things you mentioned play no major role or theme in the Bible associated with God's character so no that would not be used to facilitate retribution and atonement.
>judging God by your subjective moral code
Doesn't work that way breh, there's nothing immoral about killing children if God says so, assuming for the sake of discussion that he exists, then an omnipotent being is the only morality there is.
I was afk a while, and I don't know if you're still here, I'm referencing your reply to >>24079002
The Bible represents one of many Axioms of faith, where it's merely the people who say its true and valid against those who don't see the merit of the text or its basis, in a massive battle of my word against your word, dating back to the founding of the Catholic Church in 42 AD. (For Christians, this doesn't include Jewish hear-say, Pagan hear-say, or Shaman hear-say)
All formal religions date back to a time before empirical evidence was required for merit, and where word of mouth can cause a story to become a completely different entity by the time it reaches the people who will rise up and make a stand for it.
Your God of the Torah, Bible, and Qur'an can't have opinions and be omnipotent, if he does and is then he is unimaginably cruel.
God can't be concentric on the pink apes on the 3rd planet orbiting an insignificantly small sun, in a random galaxy nowhere near the center of the known universe, or the rest of the 99.999999% of the universe would have no purpose.
"God's" only nemesis under these Axioms of mine, and many other logical people, can't be some angel thing fallen from grace, why wouldn't God just snuff him out like he did when Tokyo got tsunami'd? All of this is based on the hallucinations of a partially malnourished schizophrenic man 2000 years ago, who was being chased by the most powerful religious system in the area,
God's nemesis can however be what this angel represents, metaphorically, though, that being utter chaos which destroys the system he's made.
Other than the original mandate sewn into our DNA saying to live long, join together, and learn. God has said nothing.
>Yeah but God is orderly so He set up a system we can understand.
literally nobody understands it, there are literally hundreds of denominations of Christianity who read the same book then fight and split off because even though they believe in Jesus and are reading the same fucking book they cant agree on the other points and schism
>we had to build yet another church in this city so we don't have to worship jesus with those asshole hertics down the street
I was walking across a bridge one day, and saw another man standing on the edge, about to jump off. I immediately ran over and said "Stop! Don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
"Well ... are you religious or atheist?"
"Me, too! Are you Christian or Jewish?"
"Me, too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
"Me, too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
"Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
"Baptist Church of God."
"Me, too! Are you Original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God."
"Me, too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!"
I yelled, "Die, heretic scum!" and pushed him off the bridge.
>Satan rules over us currently. He offered Jesus all the kingdoms in the world.
i never got that part, seemed tacked on our out of place
or god the father trolling jesus as satan
Well that depends now. Satan said that during Jesus' life on earth so that may not be true anymore. I haven't read Revelation in a while so I can't recall any related passages, and I'm also a novice at eschatology currently so I have no definitive stance on it for now.
I can definitely say he has no rule over those who are now in the new covenant. I also doubt he rules over all unsaved humans, since though he is fierce, He and his army are still very limited angels. Does he rule all nations? Plausible. All national leaders? Not necessarily.
So who and how did they find the real Bible? You're honestly talking nonsense.
Yahweh is an asshole, Satan is an agent of Yahweh and Lucifer did literally nothing wrong.
Forgiveness is rarely effective in many cases. Think like this: a man massacres a neighborhood by breaking into each home on the block at night and murdering their families as they sleep. Clearly, this man is very sick. He goes to court, and the judge says "I forgive you" and the man the goes free. God provides forgiveness, but often first comes justice and judgement.
>While it might have been a trial from god, if Jesus had accepted we would've been royally fucked.
as opposed to being crucified
Fucking fagtheist nerd loser. Go spew your disgusting heresy on /r/atheism.
Pic related - doesn't believe 100% in the divine truth of the HOLY BIBLE and the dogmas of the Holy See.
There is a basic understanding of the doctrine of soteriology (which involves justification) that most evangelicals agree upon: Justification by faith through have, not of works adj that no one may boast. Most denominations do not divide over this, but rather on less fundamental doctrine like baptism for example. Baptism separates the Baptists and Presbyterians but neither would call each other heretics outside the kingdom of God on that basis alone.
The only true division one sees on the core doctrine of soteriology is between Roman Catholic/Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, and anti-nomians (among Protestants. Probably accounts for most of them today unfortunately).
Also sorry for typos. Typing on phone with speed and auto-correct messes up some words.
There are other ways to interpret "had to" than being legally required to do what his family says as he's a minor. I have to go to church and I'm 20. I could legally quit, but they could also legally withdraw financial support (key if you're a NEET), or make life a lot harder, so I prefer to put in my 2 +/- hours a week to get my familybux.
>children dying of cancer is for a good reason
>muh mysterious ways
For an all powerful being to sit by and allow this is evil by inaction. Even if your god is real, which I don't believe to be the case, then it is an evil being and I will not worship it.
I reject responsibility for the sins of my father and his father before him. I can't help but feel its unjust because I have no control over the actions of another. My standards is my own conscience, shaped by the world around me. I never asked to be created, if that is what happened, and I won't accept those ridiculous terms.
yes exactly they read the same book and cant decide on fundamental doctrines like fate or free will (Calvinism etc) only the baptists and Presbyterians as far as i know believe in fate
the most basic of shit can not be agreed upon, like whether you need to be baptized to get into heaven if a supernatural being meant the bible as a rule book he sure did fuck up when honest believing people cant make heads or tails of it
that's not a point in your favor brah
They don't exist but here's the truth.
God is a stuck up asshat with narcissism who gets bored easily so he makes a world with beings on it. He purposely withholds knowledge and Lucifer thinks that toying with beings is wrong so he crawls down and tells them the truth. Adam is a dog just like most men in this world and only follows what people tell him. So Satan tells it to Eve too someone who will listen. Eve chooses a life of truth and knowledge a life more worth living than being a bird in a cage.
So now God gets jealous and starts his tyrade of cruelty. Creates shitty tests for fun and laughs when men are still dogs enough to keep listening. Because God knows women will expose the truth again He makes sure to tell his dogs that they are superior and women should be beneath them. This starts the cycle of oppression and dumbing down. While God had his fun playing fetch with his dogs women were watered down until (now) Satan could no longer reach them. He singlehandedly stopped Satan's influence for now. Millennias go on of meaningless violence torture and brutality among men, they are so easily swayed by "the will of God" that God creates a subclass of fun maker's known as priests and clerics etc these people have inside knowledge about God. They know God needs fun so they use his name to start wars and take control and shape society. This leads up to today we have a shitty world full of greed and chaos. Gods doing of course. Every day God gets to see his creations live like mindless beasts. He has stripped knowledge from us. By the time women were freed they became full fledged dogs of God as well. So now that there's constant barking God is never bored. But then there's people who have embraced knowledge over the centuries. You know the inventors engineers doctors etc. They were touched by Satan. But God made sure they didn't all get their happy endings. Until this day Satan tries to reach people who can make change. But God makes all these people suffer.
There are only three divisions in the church and they deal with one's doctrine of salvation. This is the doctrine that if you get wrong it is damning. Here are the three views:
1. Salvation by works. Your own righteousness gets you in heaven. They essentially render the Cross as pointless. Heretics.
2. Salvation through faith by grace. Christ's righteousness and atonement are imputed to those who believe. True church.
3. Anti-nomians. No one is a sinner, no payment needed, everyone can live however they want and hey in heaven. Heretics.
Again, the multiple denominations you see are over disputes in lesser doctrine that do not damn one's soul if they get wrong.
Moral of the story is we may be Gods children but we can be a Satan's legacy, because Satan is the one who gave is a choice.
Gods dogs may laugh at you now but it is God who has tricked them with the promise of afterlife who will be laughing when he gets to see the looks on their faces when he tells them Heaven was a lie.
See, why use your own standard for morals? What makes them right? Are you God? If God wants to make something in a way, He can choose to do so. It's his creation. We should be happy He even chose to create a way of salvation and save any of us at all.
Biblical Satan was a pretty cool guy, I liked how he and god basically just hung out on a yacht and made absurd bets to pass the time
>dude god lmao I bet if you fucked with your most devout follower he would denounce you
>lol ur on satan
You're one of those sick fucks who would murder people, if it weren't for the fact that God that was bad.
Truly terrifying that your only sense of morals come from a collection of fairy tales sandniggers told each other.
Okay you're first point was that God is unordely because humans have differences over (lesser) doctrine. However the doctrine of salvation is clear. Just because the Bible is large and intricate doesn't make God unorderly. What armed wars are there between the Christian church over lesser doctrine?
Read those posts carefully anon. They raise important questions materialists need to ask themselves regarding their world view. You have no objectivity apart from God and thus have no basis forbtruth, logic, and morality. I would post personally again but I gotta go.
Why cant all people go to heaven? Does Hitler deserve damnation for all eternity just because he was a genocidal maniac for 5 years? Do people that never had the opportunity to know him getto go to hell even if they were good people? Is there even a hell, because some churchfolk told me that hell is a made up concept and not mentioned in the bible.
Any argument you're making has already been said thousands of times before by edgy 13 year olds (this is an 18+ board btw), and no god is not the 'bad guy' in the Bible.
I'm atheist btw
God is a nigger and a half.
If he was real, I'd kill that faggot myself.
Needy motherfucker creates people to worship his shitty self or else you burn in hell
And if you do, your grand reward is worshipping him forever in some cloud camp.
Anime has much more interesting representations of God.
>Okay you're first point was that God is unordely because humans have differences over (lesser) doctrine. However the doctrine of salvation is clear.
no my point was that they disagree on everything, you have all the disagreements sectioned off and you think it's no bid deal despite the fact christian sects have been splitting and warring for over a thousand years and there are literally hundreds of sects and denominations now
i don't think God is unorderly i think the book is vague mythology and that's why nobody can agree, because nothing is there
because god does not exist