We would have found evidence. It's not impossible, but at the very least they weren't as advanced as us. If humans died out right now, in 1 million years there would absolutely be traces of our civilization.
>>6576972 I don't think ancient aliens is a discussion /sci/ can handle without spergging out.
>>6576976 In 9000 years the great pyramids will have eroded away, I read this in a magazine as a kid so don't quote me on that.
Anyways according to /x/philes Altantis(Atlanta) was actually the islands of Indonesia when they were connected, when the ice caps were thicker and the sea level was lower. Notrhing really to do with Atlantic Ocean.
Also, the melting of the ice caps could account for the ancient "global flood"
many ruins have been discovered to have ruins beneath them, which you might think to be much older civilization buried and long forgotten, that had been built atop of by newer civilization. Carbon dating proves otherwise. These buried cities are actually newer.
>>6577027 >That's not possible. carbon dating is based on exposure. buried is not exposed, so it will test younger. you have to take this into consideration, when you carbon date test, and fudge your numbers to make it say what you want it to say.
depends on what you mean by 'advanced'. human societies tend to reach a technological point beyond which they refuse to advance any further based on deference to the existing social order, then experience a long period of stagnation before completely collapsing. over that time of stagnation there will be many amazing 'miraculous' developments, by members of the social elite, seemingly anachronous. the chief example would be the romans, who had the ingredients of industrial revolution as early as 1BC but failed to ever achieve it out of deference to their slavery system. over the following centuries many incredible things were made, sadly most apparently lost to time, but somewhat recorded of.
egyptians and chinese experienced the same exact thing. presumably earlier cultures did, at lesser levels and thus for lesser stakes. given the vast scale and unknown stretches of our history, there may be an unknown supercycle happening, where we have been reaching some level even beyond our own. that is hard to believe given the lack of remaining physical elements, but then again, with the technologies we are ourselves looking to be mastering in the very near future, nothing is really inconceivable.
The fact that there's abundant oil in the ground seems to imply that no civilization on earth has ever reached a state as advanced as ours. Otherwise they would have taken advantage of such an abundant energy source.
>>6576957 >What is the likelihood that an advanced civilization existed long ago on Earth and was wiped out? It's multiculturalism. The neanderthals had bigger brains - they turned liberal and started accepting homosapians to live with them and breed, ultimately the degenerate homosapians outbred them in vast numbers and destroyed society much like Idiocracy. Then homosapians had to evolve to survive on their own. Rinse and repeat.
>>6576957 Advance as in our level of advance? No likely hood whatsoever. Not even industrial level technology.
Surface metals. For a civilization to advance they need to utilize mass amounts of surface deposits of metals and other resources such as oil. There is no evidence of surface metals being mined, or in use. Also we can track human evolution, so in the time span since modern humans have developed and today there hasn't been enough time for the evidence of their civilization to erode.
I mean. listen. All Human cities which were not deliberatly razed to the ground have left remains. Okay? Old Europe existed around 5000 years ago. We found it.
If there was some ancient advanced civilization, it would have left some evidence. If it existed it didn't use metal. Just try to picture an advanced civilization which left no metal behind. It's not a feasible hypothesis.
>Also, the melting of the ice caps could account for the ancient "global flood"
Not even close. Even if all of the ice on the planet melted the sea level would not raise THAT much. The bible said that all land was submerged. For the Earth to be submerged to the height of Everest you would need an almost incomprehensible volume of water...
>>6577243 >If there was some ancient advanced civilization, it would have left some evidence. It did. There are sunken pyramids in the oceans from the gulf of mexico through japan and europe. Society always tends to cling to the water for trade, food and a nice view - after the last ice age sea levels increased significantly and sank probably every place our ancestors were living.
>>6577244 >Not even close. Even if all of the ice on the planet melted the sea level would not raise THAT much. There are sunken pyramids off the coast of every continent except antarctica - I'd say the sea levels went up enough to sink the ancient civilizations (especially since we have had a tendency, especially in our past vs the present, to cling to the oceans for trade and food).
>>6577070 >I'm skeptical that an older civilization is built over a newer one.
one example is the sphinx / pyramid age debate some say that the pyramids are 8000 years old and the sphinx was built next to it 5000 years later. they blame shoddy workmanship of "the kids today" for the sphinx falling apart.
others say that the pyramids were built later and the sphinx is 10,000 years old, which is why it looks older, and beneath the sphinx is the ancient city.
some people can't take a hint, these people need a ton of bricks to fall on their heads. here's their story.
1)ancient city gets buried in sand. 2)we must have angered the gods 3)sacrifice a goat 4)dig out city, go back to work 5)city gets buried again 6)two virgin goats - the ultimate sacrifice 7)dig city out 8)build roofs over streets between buildings to keep sand out. 9)sand buries city again 10)sweet, the streets are not as hot underground. 11)more sand 12)dude where's my camel 13)dig out entrance to city 14)build monument to help find entrance to buried city (sphinx) 15)piss gods off again, sphinx buried 16)more virgins for the gods 17)dig out city entrance 18)dig out sphinx 19)design elaborate tunnel system to get to the surface in case the gods bury them again 20)add layers to make tunnel taller as gods blow in more sand. 21)each layer smaller than foundation, eventually down to one brick (top of pyramid) 22)more sand. no survivors make it out of tunnel
You have to look at what advanced really means. There could have been an amount of shared information about generally living a good life among a small group of 10,000 human animals. Fuck all that industrial crap. That's the shit that is destroying the planet.
>>6577309 >one example is the sphinx / pyramid age debate It wasn't even until the mid-late 90's they realized the great pyramids were aligned with orion's belt. That shit was obvious enough to spot as an 8 year old when I first saw a map of them (after having already looked up at the stars with the slight offset on orion's belt being the most striking thing in the entire sky). Archeologists are basically psychologists with less checks on the quality of their work.
>>6577218 So what, are we talking aboot reptilians on /sci/ now?
>>6577244 Never said the global flood HAD to cover every bit of land exactly like in the bible, just had to raise the sea level a bit and evryone aroudn teh world would freak out (like what's aboot to happen to us again anyways...)
>>6576957 Well there was Egypt and Mesopotamia. The Babylonians built a lot of crazy shit, they had to pretty advanced to build it, like the hanging gardens which we never saw but only know of through literature.Then there was that giant maze. The Egyptians built the pyramid. All in all they had a prosperous society. Electricity and chemistry are very complicated fields that separate modern society from the advanced society of the past.
>>6576957 The likelihood for this is a non zero number greater than 0% and just a hair higher than whatever is next to 0%. It completely depends on weather the world as we perceive it is real and our archeological record is valid or if it's false and just a computer generated cartoon.
Go watch the history channel if you are interested in this kinda stuff, they have a great show where the ancient alien terrorists forward their claims.
>>6576978 >Not so good chance of any advanced type
Civilizations developed around food sources lush fertile valleys with fresh water, or waterfall wake up, and food is outside your door getting a drink from the stream. trouble with valleys is erosion, avalanche,landslide, tectonic plates playing leapfrog, lava. not a safe place to be, when a mountain falls on top of you filling the groove. whole cities got stuck in the rut, and new ones built on top later on. Was it Pittsburgh, where they found the indian gold under a construction site? could be a whole indian city down there under the sediment.
>>6576957 Some geologist's blog site lightly touched on the subject of an unknown prehuman civilization(smart trilobites/dinosaurs/whatever) and what kind of evidence they'd leave behind of their existence. He didn't go into too many details since it was for amusement but he said they would have left lots of garbage dumps and there'd be unusual, abrupt ends in mineral deposits from ancient mining operations.
Based on the layout and abundance of minerals, nuclear isotopes, oil, basically anything that needs to be extracted from the Earth, it's safe to say that there hasn't been another civilization before humans that got further than very simple tribes.
I always wondered how we would know if, for example, some dinosaurs had advanced social structures and maybe used tools. After 65 million years would anything be left? Bones fossilize, but would an arrowhead be left? Is there a way for string, nets, organic material for shoes or gloves, to last 65 million years? What ways are there to detect such a civilization?
At any rate, no, no other advanced civilizations before man.
>>6577302 >By this do you mean Pyramids that were constructed using water to do most of the heavy lifting (as is a popular theory to explain the pyramids' construction).
>we have had a tendency, especially in our past vs the present, to cling to the oceans for trade and food This is interesting. I hadn't considered the fact that large flooding would have that kind of impact even if it wasn't to the extent that the bible suggests. That said you're absolutely right.
>>6578009 >Advanced industrialized societies are the only ticket we have of ever getting off of the Earth.
Excellent point anon. We are looking in the wrong place. For our future we need to look to Mars. So it stand to reason, that we need to look to Venus for our past industrial civilizations. When pollution and Goreball worming made Venus uninhabitable, the N.O.A.H. corporation brought us to Earth. Venus is where we'll find our ancient technologically advanced civilizations.
>>6578009 >Shut up, hippies. Advanced industrialized societies are the only ticket we have of ever getting off of the Earth.
Grow up idiot. The worm turned a long time ago. Your generation takes it up the ass all day every day and you don't do jack shit about it because you have zero moral or ethical basis.
Take a look around, dude. These people are living the life- wasting all the energy and making the planet uninhabitable for your generations. You don't even have the brain to recognize it, despite the over fucking whelming amount of evidence. Its out there, in your face.
All you can do is grasp for whatever imaginary prescription you've been sold though the culture. That the magic rocket can take you to space, to some other world.
You've been lied to by everyone you know your whole miserable life.
Everything you know is wrong.
All you do is regurgitate the myths, the lies about what it all means. You're toast. You have no future. The best mids of your generation are spending their lives figuring out how to get you to click on an advertisement for something you don't need.
Too bad its just an escapist fantasy to maintain your own position of privilege in a world of rapidly disappearing resources and mounting danger.
Seriously feel sorry for you idiot kids. I seriously do. You have been mislead. The world is being destroyed, and you are powerless. All you can do is retreat in an infantile fantasy. You've been lied to, robbed, raped, left for dead.
>>6578009 Not really. While industry helps scientific advancement, there's still the issue that you can't assign 9 women to make a baby in one month.
Science could quietly proceed without expansion of industry. Science and industry have proceeded together in an explosion of positive feedback, one feeding the other, but mostly science feeding industry, rather than the reverse. Science could have carried on confined to ivory towers, at a slower pace, but inexorably.
You could go straight to robot-built fusion space ships without ever taking the peasants out of the field.
The main objection to this isn't that it's impossible, but that it's silly. Why forego the benefits of technology? When there's a war, do you seriously stay in your ivory tower instead of helping your country defend itself? What about plague and famine? Why not do something about poverty?
>>6578331 Wrong. Modern science cannot exist without industry. Many of the modern scientific devices wouldn't be possible if there wasn't surplus of food to feed all the scientists and large-scale precisions machinering to produce those devices.
You are saying you could go straight to fusion from peasants on the field. Then why are scientists struggling with them? Because they don't have resources to actually research them properly. And it would be even harder to get those resources if there wasn't industry to back it up.
Or see : Space flight Do you think scientists figured out how to fly into space using rocks and sticks? No, they had to go through many trial and errors using test devices. And they could only create those test devices because industry existed that could produce them.
What you are saying is that any scientist should be fine with just theoretical science, without the practical side to actually try things out.
>>6578407 >The Ancients were much more advanced than us. that's a conservative's estimate. liberals think they are smarter than their parents. until mommy and daddy cut them off, and they have to beg for food
>>6578370 Oh, does it seem to you like the Big Science approach to nuclear fusion is working?
Decades ago, they said, "Give us the money, and you'll see results in a few years." Now they say, "Give us the money, and you'll see results after I'm retired."
There's no reason to believe throwing more money at it will make it happen, in any meaningful sense. We're stuck waiting nine months for one woman to make a baby, and the problem isn't that we haven't fucked enough women to make a baby in one month.
>using rocks and sticks >just theoretical science, without the practical side You're being an idiot. That's not what I was talking about at all.
Not building up an industrial society doesn't mean working in pure theory or having only primitive labs. Fine hand-crafted instruments are the root from which industry grows, not the other way around.
Things would take longer this way obviously, as I've said before, but we'd still make progress, and we'd still eventually reach robots building robots to build anything you want.
>>6578469 >Decades ago, they said, "Give us the money, and you'll see results in a few years." Now they say, "Give us the money, and you'll see results after I'm retired." Because no one has given them the money they need yet. The trickle of money they get allows just for theoretical research with barely any practical one.
>There's no reason to believe throwing more money at it will make it happen, in any meaningful sense. We're stuck waiting nine months for one woman to make a baby, and the problem isn't that we haven't fucked enough women to make a baby in one month. Thats extremely terrible comparison. Science needs resources. And those resources are quite often sofisticated machines. And sofisticated machines can only be made by advanced industry. The reason why giving them more money works is for example with current funding, they can buy 1 device every half a year. If they had money for 1 device every month. They could make many more experiments and advance the science faster. Science is such a broad discipline that the there is always a place where money makes things move faster.
The reason why USA was able to put a man on the moon was because they invested massive amount of money into it. Nowadays, NASA gets only small fraction of what they get during cold war. And thats the reason why we need to beg russians to pick us up.
>That's not what I was talking about at all. Yes you are. Experiments need money to execute. Without money, there is no experiment and no practical science. Just a theory.
>Not building up an industrial society doesn't mean working in pure theory or having only primitive labs. Yes, it does.
> Fine hand-crafted instruments are the root from which industry grows, not the other way around. And who crafts those instruments? Oh right. Every peasant can make coil of superconducting supermagnet in their backyard to use on that nice fussion reactor of yours.
>Things would take longer this way obviously No. They would never be finished.
>>6578260 You mean like the well documented mass extinction just 15-12000 years ago that killed off the megafauna, completely reformed continents through receding glaciers and rose sea level by 400ft and how the the strongest theory right now for the cause of it was giant asteroid hitting in of the poles?
Yeah. No evidence of catastrophic earth change and humans just so happen to begin having a written history just 2000 years after this event. Or that Plato himself dates the time of Atlantis' destruction to be at 12,000. Yup, no easy as fuck dots to connect here.
>>6577244 You act as if the individuals recording the bible and the people during the time were aware of the entirety of the world. Relative to them, all the land could have flooded. It doesn't mean all the land actually flooded because they were not knowledgable about all land.
>>6576957 Mandatory. Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson have both put together a lot of great information about this topic.
>pic related. Madagascar Chevrons showing at one time a tsunami hit the Indian Ocean leaving behind sediment 600 feet high. This is mirrored off the coast of Africa and Australia. This would have really fucked up Syria.
>>6580873 Today: Venus is 67 million miles from the Sun. +26M Earth is 93 million miles from the Sun. +49M Mars is 142 million miles from the Sun.
When the Sun was smaller, the temperature on Venus was at some point similar to The temperature on Earth today. As the Sun grows in size, it will do the same to Earth that it did to Venus, and by that time, Mars's ice will have started to melt, and create oceans, and atmosphere. Our solar system will automatically terraform Mars.
The mission to Mars can wait. Venus is running out of time. We need to return to Venus and recover the technology that we left behind. That technology will help us get to Mars, when the time comes, just as it got us to Earth in the past.
More than likely, but there is always hope. It is just a really tricky proposition. So many pitfalls and so many hurdles. Well, if we fail, there will be others, perhaps maybe not from earth that will take our place.
>>6580899 Do you think, assuming if everything pans out nicely on Mars, we should introduce oxygen producing lifeforms like moss and shit to Mars to kickstart the life there along with oxygen production although this will mean probably killing all possible native life through competition?
>>6576957 > What is the likelihood that an advanced civilization existed long ago on Earth and was wiped out?
Zero. Precisely zero. Any advanced civilization leaves a lot of industrial detritus behind. You can't hide all that. It also changes the air. It also leaves chemically interesting deposits behind, so time can't really erase it either. Not for the NEXT civilization.
but also there was that sekrit ancient mystic colony of super andvanced alien androids in the sp00ky l0st city of 4tl4ntis but all teh info was sp00kily disappeared from teh christians who used crystal power to make their stargates and taveled through space
>>6584492 what if there was some metals or materials we didn't used that we can no longer acquire because the used deposits were mined billions of years ago? For example the Mesoamericans used obsidian as much as possible but old worlders utilized shit like iron instead.
>>6584505 The church sent it's armies to the corners of the earth with instructions to destroy all things unholy. You would not believe the list of things thought to be instruments of Satan. The common table fork, was literally ripped from the pages of history. Fork users were tried and burned at the stake. Their children raped and forced into slavery. Many ancient civilizations have been found, but hopefully the most sacred will remain secret, until the world has rid itself of religion.
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