How important does /sci/ think doing well in high-school is in the 'grand scheme' of things, in a career/success sense?
I've always wondered, with the alternate pathways into University and 'higher grade' careers becoming more viable has doing well in high-school become less of an importance?
Or do you still think that how well you do in high-school and what ranking you get determines your University entry and the rest of your career life?
I've always heard tales of people failing in high-school and yet still becoming successful in an academic career. Is this just bullshit to make people who flunk out feel inspired to not kill themselves or is it actually viable to a considerable amount of the population who fail?
It's only important to get into the college/university you wish to get in. Everything else is compensative.
Basically, you need to know what degree of succes the University you wish to get in requires of you. Once you get, on most universities you basically start from zero so your previous knowledge doesn't matter.
I went to a language oriented high school and had a TON of luck to get into the top electrical engineering college at my country, and after I got in, I worked my ass off, did pretty good, now I'm up for a masters abroad and everything is actually great.
All that with basically minimum knowledge gained in high school.
so TLDR: It's only mandatory to get where you wish to get, the knowledge is compensatible
4chan massively underrates education. Even /biz/ is full of retards who don't know anything about getting careers.
I'm an engineering major at a university that is ranked between 150 and 200. But because I got very good school and uni grades, I get interviews with investment banks in london for front office roles, various other financial companies including blackrock, Shell, IBM software engineering etc. I went to an open day for a strategy consultancy stuffed with LSE/Oxbridge graduates.
I'm not especially smart. my CV is nothing special.
Now put that in to perspective when you hear dumb plebs tell you that uni isn't worth it. It's because they do shit at it and 20 years ago they never would've went to uni anyway.
Do the plebs who think that uni isn't worth it think I could've got those opportunities by leaving school and going to work at my local supermarket? By working in a trade (FUCKING LOL)? By starting a shitty business?
>viable to a considerable amount of the population
Most people who pass are dumb. Now think how stupid you'll look to employers if you don't pass.
But oh yeah, if you're the next Bill Gates or you're as smart as Einstein, pls disregard my post.
I think this is specifically in America, I'm not sure.
In other countries, take Australia for example you must get a certain ranking across the country to qualify for your desired University course (which is basically the same across all Universities).
So if you don't get a good score throughout highschool you would have to take extra courses over the next few years. Doesn't that make the knowledge and how you score essential, not 'compensatible'?
So essentially you believe that if you don't get good grades in high-school it would be near impossible/viable to get a highly academic career of some sort? Just to clarify
The Universities have to have some sort of measure as to whom they accept and whom they reject. It they have to choose between you and another person, and that person had, say, perfect scores in high school and you had not perfect scores, they are going to choose him. Not much there to it.
What I meant by my first post is exactly that. High school grades serve mostly to show the universities that you are a serious candidate. If you are scared about the knowledge and what you could have learned in high school but didn't, you don't have to be scared about that, because you'll compensate most of it in your first year of college.
But if you are scared because you had bad grades and you aren't sure you'll be able to get in to the University you desire, then you fears are justifiable. You might be able the get in, but it all depends on the University you choose.
There are still a lot of colleges that you can get into in are area you wish. If you had bad grades, you might not be able to get into MIT, but you can get into an engineering major of your choice somewhere else, I don't know how colleges function in different countries (if that's whats called community college in America?).
After that you work your ass off, get into a Master program wherever in the fucking world that you want because you had good scores in college, and after that pick your PhD just like that, if that is your plan.
Your current state does not have to mean you're finished for good
I'm simply planning to see how bad it would be if I was to fail.
Even in my area if you fail you can usually take 1 year courses to make you 'Uni Ready' for the course you wish.
It's just doing well in high school gets you into the course years earlier and with less hassle and cost.
I was simply curious on how people felt about the general importance of high school grades in relation to University entrance.
where I live the set up is pretty good, high school ends at grade 11 and then you go do 2 years at a pre university school and then do a bachelors in 3 years, the pre university schools are easy to get into and your high school marks dont matter after you are done and if you are lacking pre requisites, the pre uni schools have their own 1 semester programs or you can do adult ed
tldr, where I live high school doesnt matter
Speaking on behalf of Australia, you can easily transfer to whatever uni you want if you work hard enough.
Even if you fucked up in high school, you can just do a year at basically any uni and if you get HD's (or even D's) in most of your subjects (which isn't hard in most first-year courses), you can transfer to whatever uni you want. Universities in Australia go by your most recent academic records, and there will always be a university that will accept you, so you can get into the top universities in the country if you just try.
Well, I applied to UK and US universities from Turkey several years ago and my first couple of years in high school weren't exactly bright but my junior and senior years were pretty good and had excellent AP and SAT scores (2200+ SAT, 5s on 6 AP exams) I was rejected by most US schools I cared for because they got thousdands of applicants with great GPAs in all of their high school years. UK didnt give two shits about my GPA and I got into Imperial for engineering which is pretty much global top 10/top 5 according to rankings. It all depends on your entrance system and how you market yourself.
Do not underestimate the strength of playing smart too. This girl I knew who had mediocre grades got into Duke Univ. from early decision because no one else had applied ED while another girl who was top 5 in my school could only get into Northwestern when people expected guaranteed Harvard/Yale/Princeton. I myself was rejected from Cambridge engineering because my counselor was clueless and misled me on many points in terms of the application (though I still got an interview) while a friend with much worse scores and mathematical/scientific aptitude got into oxford engineering because he played his cards very well (though circumstances are more complicated, it's superfluous for this discourse). College admissions aren't as simple as get grades, participate in a couple clubs and get admitted, as you can see from my experiences.
Plus, what college you attend doesnt matter as much as you think-it's what you make of it. There's still grad school. However, if you attend Princeton instead of Texas Christian University, you'll have more opportunities without doubt. Though, I don't believe that attending say, Johns Hopkins really constitutes a drawback in a big sense compared to, say, Stanford.
>I was rejected by most US schools I cared for because they got thousdands of applicants with great GPAs in all of their high school years
Yeah, it sucks and there's no reason to even apply to top US schools unless you are near perfect academically (or started some absurdly successful business or something).
I worked hard in high school and earned a full ride to my college.
If I didn't work my hardest, but instead had a "above average" performance, I would be in the same debt hole as everyone else. My major would be engineering or computer science because I would have to ensure I have a job out of college to pay back my money. Now that I avoided that, I can actually go into a field I'm interested in. There isn't as much stability, but I can afford that now.
So... in the end, in the 'grand scheme' of things, from my experience, high school was actually one of the most important things. Some people may argue not, but they don't realize the amount of doors they closed by willing to perform less than their maximum.
The best students I knew from university came from the best high schools in my region. They easily scaled up to the workload and were able to handle the typical academic stress.
It's fairly important. Do not send your kids to private high schools which lack science programs.
Not very much. Content-wise. university is actually much easier than high school. As in everything makes more sense, while in high school, the information is too shallow.
First year classes are basically learning the stuff introduced to you in high school. It's not supposed to be hard, and the people complaining about "weeding" classes or whatever are just lazy and unmotivated. It's actually the second year that is the road bump if you switched into a heavy program like Chemistry. In these programs, more than half have usually switched back into Life Sciences or another easy program because they couldn't handle the workload (because they procrastinated too much).
You have to be able to manage your time properly (procrastination is a bitch). Of course if you stay in the easy programs, then university will be a breeze the entire time.
There are people who have a part-time job, volunteer, and study full-time at the same time. They do well regardless because they're disciplined and motivated. Then there's me with only studying to worry about, but I barely scrape up an A- average because I still procrastinate too much.
Make sure to do an undergraduate thesis project. If you're not going to volunteer/work with a lab, what's the point of paying so much to study in a University when you can learn all that information yourself anyways?
earliest school performance accounts for most of iqs effect on life
iq has a huge effect on every aspect of life.
thousands of downsyndrome kids are killed before and after birth because of their intellectual disability.
anything under 120iq isn't worth breeding, you need at least 130+ to contribute in a meaningful way to technology/science. One 130 iq is equal to the efforts of hundreds of thousands of 70-129's
alot of this is actually true.
So what degrees have been deflated about 5-10% over the years,
if everyone gets hs/secondary then you need more to look better in comparison.
The answer is certainly not to say, well these people are educated therefore education is worthless i'm going to have none.
also the fact that at least 50%+ of uni students are functionally retarded and will still graduate with a 3.2/2:1, if you're feeling depressed or like you can't hack it, or its too difficult, just fucking kill yourself now you pathetic faggot. This isn't even the beginning, this is the fucking warmup, no wait this is the training session before the warm up and you wanna quit. faggot. There are 9 year old kids facing the death penalty for trying to read, and you wanna quit because you don't feel like you fit in at university, you're having a hard time balancing your work and life, you're not sure if education is for you. faggot. give up.
Grades are meaningless and mostly arbitrary. While there certainly is a correlation between a grade on a test and your knowledge of that topic, failing doesn't necessarily mean that you don't know the topic well enough, and passing doesn't necessarily mean that you knew it at all.
The only use of grades is for having others measure you easily, so it's better to have good grades.
Then again, high school is so fucking easy that if you have bad grades there you'll most likely get destroyed at uni. I mean, even if you just failed because you were lazy, you generally can't be lazy in college.
1. I don't think it is important at all in my country Sweden. I think so because people are being fucking brainwashed here by the propaganda that every religion is alright and every religion is equal and whatnot, when it is clear that the Islamic fundamentalists are far more dangerous and that every person has the potential for being a funDIE.
I also see education as unimportant due to the fact of.. well, first of all. The expectations is that everyone, regardless of 1. Culture 2. Socio-economic status 3. Belief system 4. Intelligence
To think anything else is a folly. Yet, if you point out that something is different with one child or another, you're a "racist" or a "bigot" or whatever. The social validation takes over.
isn't that because you are a bigot, and that you aren't qualified to make that call, and you have no evidence to support your claims, and similar claims have been refuted over and over again.
>I also see education as unimportant due to the fact of.. well, first of all. The expectations is that everyone, regardless of 1. Culture 2. Socio-economic status 3. Belief system 4. Intelligence
What are you trying to say here?
I'm trying to say that the model that everyone is going to understand math, physics, chemistry whatever is very naive. Some people are simply not suited for the hard sciences or any degree of abstract fucking thinking at all. People are getting smarter, but not at the rate that everyone can be a person like the people from the renaissance. I think that psychology should be introduced in schools, so we can avoid shit like Elliot Rodger. Imagine if people could diagnose their peers and help their peers towards a better understanding of what kind of emotional/psychological problems people had?
Besides, psychology is not much harder than math, in fact, much easier. I know I will get a lot of shit for this, but that is what I believe. Psychology is important. Also the fact that we're teaching so fucking much humanities and languages, virtually useless, optional shit. Nobody will 'need' that to survive.
They just focus on Judaism and fucking Christianity anyway, they are too afraid to speak ill of the devi.. err shaytan ... I mean.. Islam.
Can you still get into decently academic careers using this pre-university method? e.g Physics, Maths majors or Engineering etc?
It's not as simple as doing homework when you have useless teachers and uninformative textbooks which use many assumptions. Not making excuses or anything but simply doing homework can't improve grades; you have to understand what your doing.
I hear everywhere that University is easier than high-school; makes me think if it's a reward for the people that did well enough to earn entrance.
>Believing IQ is an accurate measure of intelligence
>psychology is not much harder than math
They aren't even on comparable levels
>Psychology is important
>the fact that we're teaching so fucking much humanities and languages, virtually useless, optional shit. Nobody will 'need' that to survive
No one needs your shitty psychology to survive, if you want to communicate and understand the world around you, you might want to reconsider the languages and humanities importance.
I went to community college then transferred and should start grad school soon. Getting into community college=being 18. You don't even need a HS diploma. There was a transfer agreement between my CC and university where I needed to maintain like a 3.0 or 3.1 or something (lol). Now the opportunity to go to grad school is coming because I knew someone. I don't even know if I will have to formally apply.
The only time grades have mattered to me is when I transferred. Even then, it was not a big deal. Any idiot can get a 3.0 at a community college lol.
My highschool grades meant literally nothing. I don't even remember my GPA or ever even though about it. I know my current GPA, but I suspect in a couple years I'll forget.
I've always done well in my classes because I'm interested and want to learn, but the actual letter at the end so far has been meaningless and probably will never affect anything I ever do.
>implying you can't learn shit on your own
Most of what I learned from highschool went straight out of my head. Only things that I have actually remembered are those that I have learned by my own.
Are you talking about the claims of races being not equal? Cause those claims have scientific basis.
What you said made absolutely no sense whatsoever. How is Islamic fundamentalism related to high school importance?
>I'm trying to say that the model that everyone is going to understand math, physics, chemistry whatever is very naive. Some people are simply not suited for the hard sciences or any degree of abstract fucking thinking at all.
Yeah people are different. We have scientists and we have plumbers. Your point?
>but not at the rate that everyone can be a person like the people from the renaissance
People weren't any smarter back then.
>I think that psychology should be introduced in schools, so we can avoid shit like Elliot Rodger. Imagine if people could diagnose their peers and help their peers towards a better understanding of what kind of emotional/psychological problems people had?
Psychology is nothing more than groping in the dark. Most theories we have are just bullshit derived from other bullshit. That, or pure speculation. Teaching something to everyone that is this early in its development does more harm than good, since the understanding will have changed completely in just a couple of years. It would only create (even more) misconceptions.
>Nobody will 'need' that to survive.
I don't see anyone needing a bunch of speculative theories to survive, either.
Others have already said it: highschool is a gateway to your University of choice; but beyond that it doesn't influence much else. One important thing to consider is that by doing "well" in highschool you may have exposed yourself to more material and find a passion. HIghschool was pretty chill (at least in Canada), so it's best to make good use of the time and explorer options before you're paying big stacks for them...
Once you get into college, nobody gives a shit about what you did in high school.
Once you get into grad school, nobody gives a shit about what you did in college.
Once you get a research or faculty job, nobody gives a shit about what you did in grad school.
Such is the nature of life.
>teaching psychology in school will stop potential elliot rodgers
Not in the slightest
>Imagine if people could diagnose their peers
That is absolutely terrifying. Jesus Christ that has so many terrible implications.
>they will help their peers
You are so delusional it hurts.
Why are swedes so naive?