pGrissel is best warlock edition
Warmachine/Hordes Books, No Quarter, & IKRPG
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Lexicanum Iron Kingdoms Lore wiki:
I'm a new player and I've learned a lot about the game by listening to podcasts, but I don't have any models yet. I really want to start out with mercs because they are just too cool. How fucked am I and in what ways?
Hows this look?
High Exemplar Kreoss (*5pts)
* Repenter (4pts)
* Vanquisher (8pts)
Avatar of Menoth (11pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Daughters of the Flame (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Exemplar Bastions (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
Holy Zealots (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Holy Zealot Monolith Bearer (2pts)
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance (3pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
The idea was a list that was more of a combined arms approach then the usual pop and drop
Can you easily transport a collossus? Do you want to start cephalyx? Are you OK with not being unique?
Then you are fine.
Now putting competitivness aside you can run alot of different lists, can find stuff to handle most problem easily but some of your units will be made of shot quality.
Furthermore unlike most armies you might be inclined to go with a ramshackled look and different schemes which can lead to you messing stuff up by converting your warjack too much or ending with confusing mess of models.
complete hobby noob here, how can I go about covering the opening in the medium sized bases. I have a good chunk of my gators painted now, but none of them based yet. I'm not looking to use greenstuff to fill that huge gap, but am unsure as to what the alternatives are. Should I get some cork or something like that then cover the remaining base in sand then paint it etc. ?
They're broken up into a few distinct forces and it's very easy to own three merc lists that share only 1-2 models.
It's not like Circle where you can buy a warpwolf stalker, ghetorix, gorax, 2x shifting stones + 1 UA and a wilder and have 80% of the list for each caster
While most faction do field different list which can be quite diverse (and increases cost) they usually share units.
With mercenaries you might even have two list (if playing different contract) which have no shared units.
Another point is a higher number solos.
Luckily most human ones use a limited warjacks: Mules, Nomads and Galleons.
I just use a pice of tape. Just put it over the base and cut it around the edge with my hobby knife. Works like a dream. Just use a mid range packing tape. Then flocl or whatever over it.
Mercs have a lot going on with subfactions. Highborn gets cygnar units and cephalyx can have cryx solos, dwarf casters can only use dwarf jacks, and so on. The renegade can only be used by magnus. It's a hodge podge mishmash of stuff and when you win you feel like you did a magic trick.
This is one of my favorite images in the whole setting. No magic shit flying about, no giant machines/monsters, just two shit tier infantry guys throwing down even though their conflict is a footnote and their purpose was fulfilled the moment they jammed up the enemy.
Forge Master Syntherion (*6pts)
* Corollary (3pts)
* Galvanizer (0pts)
* Modulator (6pts) x 8
Optifex Directive (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Optifex Directive (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex (1pts)
So, this this is better, or one less Modulator and some other support pieces instead?
I have a 3 caster event coming up on sat and I'm having a problem with my pairings. I know I want Gaspy2 and 3 since they are my bae.
My other casters are pDenny, pGaspy, Terminus and Venethrax. I dont have a ton of expirience with denny nor do i have the gun line. Termy, thrax and 3gaspy all want the same characters.
I guess I can go for the sexy 3 way, but pGaspy has no mat fixing, and BLT is in Lich2
What does /tg/ think of my Ossrum list?
Faction: Highborn Covenant
General Ossrum (*5pts)
* Ghordson Earthbreaker (19pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
Hammerfall Siege Crawler (9pts)
Horgenhold Forge Guard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Goblin Tinker (1pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Master Gunner Dougal MacNaile (2pts)
Thor Steinhammer (2pts)
I think he means it's a three list event. not a three-caster event.
It doesn't sound like he's in Warcaster thunderdome, so I doubt any establishment in the world would prepare itself for the 100 hour slog that would be an actual 3-caster event.
I think its generally important to have a game-plan in list building, and here's mine. Ossrum will be swapping snipe around between Big E.B. and the crawler, allocating the rest and keeping his assassinatable ass well back. The guns shoot things down on the approach as the gun mages do gun mage things, like killing stealth models. A&H make menoth cry by giving EB magic guns that bury them in terrain, and debuff hard targets to get shot to death. Hammer-dwarves generally stay in reserve and might charge in on feat turn. Gorman helps hide the caster and can lead to ranged assassinations. Dougal may buff the crawler more of the time than EB but I'd have to test it.
Joining a weird slow grow in a month.
The idea is to start 20 points. Every week adds another 5 until we hit 75. You can't swap out your warcaster and the amount of other stuff you can swap in and out is limited but I don't know exactly how much right now.
I own trolls. I am aware that until 25+ the games are gonna be rock-paper-scissors.
The cryx player is running Gaspy1 tier with 30 Mcthralls. Merc player is trying out his Cephalyx. Circle player is a weirdo and playing Morv1 dude spam + shamblers for max recycling. I wanted to run MMM cause I just got it all painted up, but knowing almost half the people in the league are running dudespam makes me 2nd guess myself.
I was thinking of tweaking the first list like so
Grissel Bloodsong (*5pts)
* Dire Troll Mauler (9pts)
Northkin Fire Eaters (4pts)
Northkin Fire Eaters (4pts)
Trollkin Warders (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
But I don't know if they will be enough even with pGriss to handle dude spam.
It's a shame. I've been really wanting to get back into Warmahordes---once my funds catch up---due to the Iron Kingdoms game I'm running, and I'd like to try and get the friends in my game into it as well, but they're too turned off by the somewhat frustrating assembly some of the models require.
About the only thing it has going for it is cycling Hot Shot, and Assimilators can usually hit as many models as the PAs would be hitting anyways.
Single PA's plently good with Synth, and double is fine, but it's hardly the best.
Not the only reason. The big reason is that the Meat Thresher isn't out yet, so the Tier 1 bonus does nothing. Also, the Tier 2 bonus is worse than the normal thornfall pact if you plan on using brigands (In pact all farrow units gain AD, in her theme only Maximus and the Slaughterhousers do). But yes, not being able to take Saxon Orrik for the Pathfinder is a reason. But since the Meat Threshers have pathfinder innately you will likely see her in Theme more often once they get released this month.
What army should I play of I enjoy a play style like tons of debuffs, removing buffs, and poison?
So far I'm leaning towards cyrx but is there anything else? I'm ok with losing a ton to try and get the hang of an army.
I mean, Holt also is a badass with two hand cannons, but you make a valid point. If I subtract A+H and tinker, I could put in an Eyriss or Hernne and Jon plus a solo. Harlan Versh maybe.
Assembling old Iron Fang Pikemen that I had never opened and painting my Zerkova2 theme list
I'm going to the local tournament in the near time. I already have some gaming experience, but since I have pretty limited number of miniatures yet, I'll go with a single list.
It is almost all I have, so question isn't "how to change this list", but more like "how will it play" and "what to expect".
Aside from models used in the list, I have other 'jacks from battle box, pAsphy, Orin Midwinter, 4 more McThralls and Machine Wraith.
> Points: 50/50
Warwitch Deneghra (*5pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Bane Thrall Officer & Standard (3pts)
Bile Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Mechanithralls (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls (2pts)
Bane Lord Tartarus (4pts)
Necrotech & 1 Scrap Thrall (1pts)
Saxon Orrik (2pts)
Wrong Eye & Snapjaw (9pts)
I can't with character restrictions:
> Points: 40/50
Iron Lich Asphyxious (*6pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
* Defiler (5pts)
* Slayer (6pts)
Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Bane Thrall Officer & Standard (3pts)
Bile Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (5pts)
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls (2pts)
Machine Wraith (1pts)
Necrotech & 1 Scrap Thrall (1pts)
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor (2pts)
Well, maybe I can, If I add Slayer to Deneghra and transfer some characters to Gaspy. But I'll get two lists, each worse. And I just don't see a [point - I don't think Gaspy would play so much different.
I don't want. I don't think that 2 lists is such important, given my situation.
AFAIK, no - I can, but I don't need.
> Players can bring a second army list if they choose.
Two lists are better - more flexibility. But it my situation it would be 2 lists for the sake of it only. So I'd rather go with one
Damiano, Ashlyn, McBain, and Gorton. Damiano makes everything good, Ashlyn lets you skew as hard as you can, McBain plays well with characters and Gorton lets you play earthbreaker.
A skew is when you have a lot of a specific thing i.e high armor, high def, incoroprial or stealth to name a few
It might be better to buy the earffbreaker since its very good and lessens the modle count
Initial verdict on the Siege Crawler after a single practice game is that most people's initial impressions are pretty much correct. It puts out a pretty good number of attacks, dougal is nice on it when you can spare not buffing the earthbreaker. The crawler was actually pretty hard for my opponent to remove since he positioned the armor-crackers across from the EB.
Pics, all of you.
"Skew" means a lot of something, whatever it is. Many Ashlyn lists go def skew and "crit fishing", going for crit effects on feat turn. Gunmages marshalling a mule going thunderbolt crid devestates everything in the aoe 3" and knocks it down. Crit slams from hammerdorfs wreck on her feat turn, and steelhead cav roll 6k4 on a flank charge. She's decent in combat with Rocinante around, but she's fragile. She has to get really close to get disrtaction off, and only magnus gets arc nodes.
As a Skorne player, what is the best caster to use to leverage our beasts well and have them do a ton of work? Because I am reaching the end of my rope and getting really burnt out after seeing my heavies trivially removed, tied up, or otherwise controlled by everything under the goddamn sun.
I look at all the common casters people suggest and they all seem to have crippling flaws. Xerxis2 and Morghoul1 have great spell lists and feats, but they're both Fury 5 which means trying to support a bunch of beasts usually gets them killed since they can't camp enough and have to be on the frontline. Makeda3 has the perfect feat and can survive being up front, but does nothing else for the battlegroup and only has two beast points. Naaresh likewise has an excellent feat, but he doesn't really do anything else and just seems weak. Hexeris2 and Rasheth are probably the closest I've seen to ok, but the former doesn't really do much besides remove high defense infantry and the latter does fuck-all against non-living models.
tl;dr What caster supports our beasts bests?
You just listed like every beast caster in the faction and then some. You clearly know what your options are, so have you considered that it isn't the casters that are the problem in this equation?
>played a game against a new player
>25 pts, he took pkreoss and errants with a couple jacks
>took strakhov with ifp and ruin, widowmakers and shit
>murder kreoss top of 3 because he was just standing in open ground
was it bad of me not to warn him to not put kreoss out in the open with a clear charge lane? i helped him out a bit during the game but didnt want to play it for him
I have, and it's probably true. Just super frustrated at the moment since my local meta seems to answer everything I throw at it. If it's not Runes of War, it's Cryx. If not Cryx, then it's Cephalyx. And if it's not Cephalyx, it's Doomy3, or eKreuger or eVayl or pVayl or pGrissel FireMountain. It's either swarms of super cheap, hard hitting infantry that can just alpha me first and eliminate 2-4 heavies, or it's some kind of control caster that casually pulls everything out of position and kills it and runs away, or its swarms of cheap, super durable hard hitting infantry.
I feel like I can't spread out enough, or I'm not fast enough, or I can't protect my beasts to have a chance. I'm really starting to feel like heavy warbeasts are a trap option now since they really only kill heavies well and they don't do enough work vs Warders or infantry before being hacked apart.
I'm seriously considering just running Fist of Halaak and ponying up the money to get the millions of Cataphrachts I'll need.
>As a Skorne player, what is the best caster to use to leverage our beasts well and have them do a ton of work? Because I am reaching the end of my rope and getting really burnt out after seeing my heavies trivially removed, tied up, or otherwise controlled by everything under the goddamn sun.
How? I've never seen Skorne get man handled like that. I'm not saying they are unbeatable, but Ive never seen them lose hard.
You need to start looking into competitive Skorne lists. Figure out what makes them work and why. Watch videos of pros playing this stuff, learn from them. Apply this knowledge to your own meta and develop your own lists and methods for dealing with it.
>was it bad of me not to warn him to not put kreoss out in the open with a clear charge lane? i helped him out a bit during the game but didnt want to play it for him
I think there are very few "good" casters for people to play against when they first start out.
Strakov is by no means great, but he can alpha incredibly hard. A new player wont have the knowledge or ability to deal with it, ignorance is the absolute best match up for him. I once thought Karchev would be a great learning caster. Several jacks and a cute gimmick, how bad could it be? I felt extremely guilty afterwards and it steered a new player away from the game for many years.
I think a very well balanced harkevich list might be okay. No surprises, no ball busting feat or combos, just mediocrity.
>If it's not Runes of War, it's Cryx. If not Cryx, then it's Cephalyx. And if it's not Cephalyx, it's Doomy3, or eKreuger or eVayl or pVayl or pGrissel FireMountain.
Unfortunately, beast bricks are not the way to answer almost all of those lists. If you really want to run beast heavy against something like Cryx, then you need to start considering ranged heavy battlegroups including stuff like Mammoths, Raiders, Sentinels, or Drakes. If you're running a melee heavy battlegroup, then you'll almost always trade poorly with factions that can take advantage of them easily.
Simple program for simplification of iron kingdoms texts decryption. So that you can "type" the text on the picture, instead of navigating tables or guessing it in text editor.
You'll need to install fonts from folder "Fonts".
Author: Clockwork Toruk (not me)
> Down-d link: goo <d0t> gl/QDo7qf
Hey warmachine nuts, I have a question.
I'm looking to get in to the game and was wondering which faction is fast moving and hard hitting-est? I like play styles that reward good decision making and quick action, and somewhat glass canon type units. Is there a faction for me? Or do I just build a list in any faction that I like the look of and find a caster that plays that way?
Kind of new to Warmachine and looking to start a 15 point army with Durst. So far I'm thinking
Min choir (2pts)
Vassal of menoth (2pts)
I was also thinking about swapping out one of the Reckoners for a Templar just for a little extra meele ability. thoughts?
Sounds like Circle Orboros. They're entire thing is running in at mach five, hitting like a freight train, then running away to do it all over again next turn. They're very powerful, but if you fuck up all your shit dies because your armor is made of twigs and mud.
Don't get fooled by the Reckoner's gun, it can beat face just like a dedicated melee heavy, but with the added benefit of having a fucking amazing gun.
Seriously, unless you've got a VERY specific reason for taking a heavy that isn't the Reckoner, you just take the damn Reckoner. It may very well be the most cost efficient heavy warjack in the entire game.
If you are honestly at the end of your rope and in that way, try this:
Take Mordikaar. Give him about 30 points of beasts, some support, and a bit of chaff.
Screen with the hollow-unit, sure, but just play stupid. Don't be clever about somehow getting the alpha, don't agonize over the other guy's charge lanes. Play stupid, Paralytic-Aura if you got it.
But right before they kick your teeth in on that first alpha, Pop Feat.
Second game with above Ossrum list, this time on vassal. Played against eSkarre with raiders, witches, and bane riders. Cryx is certainly not the matchup I'm looking at for this list if I had a competitive two-list pair. Unsurprisingly the Crawler did very little in this game.
Side note, getting tired of playing a million cryx players on vassal. What is good anti-cryx tech in mercenaries? I sort of want to try Shae's theme.
would anyone happen to have a archive of all/most of the warmachine/horde art? I'd much appreciate it if it exists
if not does anyone have a good quality picture of wrong eye from hordes minions? I cant seem to find a good picture of him
if you're playing a cheese list with the intention of clocking your opponent, then you make them role every damage role. it's not a good sport thing to do but you can force a roll even if it's literally impossible for the role to fail
>Yea, until your opponent calls the TO over and you get warned for bad sportsmanship. And then get DQed for doing it again if you continue
making your opponent roll dmg no matter what is a thing.
>A thing that can get you DQed, yes.
its really not that big of deal.
Roll to hit. Did you hit? pick of the dice and immediately drop them then proceed to the next attack roll. Your opponent cost you a fraction of a second (its pointless).
I've yet to see that happen. I would purpose that if you are fast rolling out in the open and both players are aware that even with double ones you are still delivering killing blows the other guy couldnt possibly ask for any more for fear the judge would come over and butt fuck him.
But his strategy is dependent on you taking too long rolling to win.
Letting you roll quickly defeats his entire purpose.
He's going to be a dick about it and hope you don't call the TO over.
X2 is a very powerful, but fairly hard to play caster. positioning is huge for him, and some matches he just dies too, but he's got a very powerful feat and a pretty damn good spell list.
Abby2 is like a melee Vayl1, a super alpha caster who does tons of damage.
X2 would honestly be one of Skornes best (if not flat out best) caster if he wasn't on a huge base.
He is a straight forward, point and click, force multiplication caster who doesn't have any shitty anti-synergies, disparate design elements or special requirements/downsides to make him work which is more than I can say for every other decent Skorne caster. Unfortunately he is easy to deliver a beast/jack to and has a 10" control area so keeping him alive is tough.
Still, he is fun as hell.
Suck it up and deal. Skorne honestly doesn't have any good answers to cryx, RoW, Cephalyx or the Vayls. THe best way to play is get them to fight an attrition game and wear them down then go for the caster kill. Mordikaar, Zaal1/2, Xexis 1, and to some extent Hexy 2 are good at this.
As a cryx player, what I want to see the least from skorne are incindies, especially under ehexy, followed very closely by eXerxis drake spam, signs and portents magic pow14 sprays on spd8 pathfinder beasts is a terrible, terrible thing to try to drop single wound infantry spam into.
Kreoss1 is obsolete unless you are a newb.
If however you're a newb, then that's a decent list to start with.
There are plenty things wrong with it, but you have to find out for yourself by playing it.
oh lordy. Don't bother with 15pts.
1) Play the basic battlebox games (Kreoss, crusader, repenter, revenger)
3) learn how to play
4) Then move up to 35pts and later still 50pts.
I've played a few games with a friends 2 player battle box and got most of the rules down but I was thinking that 15 pts would be good to learn another warcaster that's not Kreoss. And I can use that 15 point army as a base to build a bigger one.
I don't know Menoth specifically, so this might be an awful strategy in specific.
But you should just get good pieces in general for an army at 35ish points or so then start swapping casters in and out till you find the right play style. After that you can start to tune your list to what you really want.
Regarding the fluff in the new book, is Mohsar going to confront Kreuger directly? Or is he going to pull some mystical cockblocking shit on the Kreug's plans somehow?
Also, will people ever stop fucking with Brad's work?
I think not.
In theory Mohsar is his boss, and at the very least can deny a lot of resources and manpower to Kreuger, particularly if he has the agreement of the other Omnipotents.
In Practice, they can't really oppose wurmwood openly (any more than they already have, the exact terms of the alliance isn't clear). Expect rules lawyering alllll day and promised stuff not turning up for Kreuger at a pivotal moment (and it not mattering a bit when wurmwood turns up with help anyway)
I'm more interested in if they are going to go to the old witch, it's clear they think wurmwood has gone too far, and they aren't above playing both sides for the good of the circle (hell that's supposed to be the POINT of the circle)
never he would have nothing to do with the main plot if people left his places of power alone
Bradigus has that sort of Japanese salaryman vibe to him. Like he's so used to pain and disappointment that he doesn't even acknowledge them anymore, but his soul dies a little more every sunrise.
>oh my stones got nerfed...
>oh ok Krueger, you can hang up on me
>oh ok boss, please continue yelling at me
I bet he does wolds exclusively because all the furry beasts ntr him for kaya.
Being brad is suffering
pSeverius and pFeora are decent for branching out and learning, pReznik if you favor agression. Severius makes everything decent, eye of menoth all day.
Grab choir if you haven't.
What do you think about Steelhead Riflemen in Cryx? Are they worthy?
Considering, that Nyss Hunters already in the list.
the photo is too blurry and eye witness testimony is too vague.
It's probably just a weather balloon or a foreign exchange student. These mythical jacks simply aren't real.
Here's my list.
Main plan with it is to shoot 'em up, jam them with some nihilators and if anything goes past/there are some tough warjacks, throw abuse on Titan Gladiator and enrage him to shred the remains or kill high priority targets.
Master Tormentor Morghoul (*7pts)
* Cyclops Raider (5pts)
* Aradus Sentinel (8pts)
* Titan Gladiator (8pts)
Nihilators (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Extoler Soulward (2pts)
Mortitheurge Willbreaker (2pts)
If I could squeeze in an agonizer in there it'd be gold, a shame.
What do you guys think of it? (I made this list not only because of versatility, but I just love the models and will be way more motivated to paint them)
Eh. I'm a Cryx player, not a minions player. I likt the idea of Caliban and the Blindwalker makes him an option. Its p shit otherwise desu. Intrestingly, you can take him on wrong-eye wich it p funny
If this is really some 1 pt fury management solo that works for both minion contracts then it's pretty cool. Could allow S&D and Carver to go big with the hog spam. Would also be interesting with the lesser warlocks in other factions.
I find the candle gator kinda stupid. It has no idea what it wants to be.
As a front line beast, the combat stats are garbage and fury too low.
As a back line beast it's not noding and the stats are still too bad to be a second wave heavy
The saving grace is the pt cost, but what the hell are you even using it for?
It's a shit arc node on the wrong side of minions. If it was in pigs then it would be received completely differently. As it is though you're going to pay premium to arc what? Parasite? Deadweight? Big deal.
How are you getting the 3rd one? Feat?
Parasite alone isn't worth really dropping Calaban when Rask or Jaga Jaga is possible. Calaban is still a mess of a warlock with skornergy issues within his own kit.
>How are you getting the 3rd one? Feat?
Yes, obviously. Get blindwalker in position and put up the animus. Activate Calaban, arc parasite on the target you want and feat. Croak raiders murder parasite'd target, calaban gets a fury and can arc another parasite. Remaining croak raiders kill second target, calaban get's another fury and arcs another parasite.
Calabans whole skornergy issue was that he was a spellslinger that couldn't sling his spells because his gun creating arc nodes didn't work and he's too squishy to move forward to get in range. Having an arc node makes him pretty usable and against some matchups better at armor cracking then the other gator caster. He's not going to be some sort of new tournament monster but at least he's an option now. Most other factions would love to get a single release that makes their worst caster(s) usable.
Hes really fun now, proxied the candlenode in him and tore through jacks and units with croaks and a sacral vault. Not a new breakout caster youll see all the time, but can actually play the game now
No that's him just sucking.
His actual skornegy was the fact that the gun doesn't kill so he can't get a spell off with it and carnivore rfps so he couldn't get a spell off either. There are so many ways to do +2 to hit and they had to take the skornegy one.
Well, you basically asked "Tell me what cracks armor best in Khador except all the things that crack armor best in Khador."
It's the Butchers, Sorcha2 and Irusk. Those are whats best in life.
So a friend of mine is interested in joining me as I start into hordes and he's decided that he much prefers the look of trollbloods to anything else. I'm really glad he found an army he likes the style of but I don't know much at all about them.
Could anyone here fill me in on a general purchase order for him? Is the battlebox decent value, or are those units largely unused? If its good then what should be some first purchases afterwards aiming for 35pts? Cost effectiveness is important, as its his first time into wargaming and he doesn't want to go bankrupt before he knows he's into it for real.
scour the earth for the troll all in one army box, 35 points of babbys first meat mountain, he'll use everything in the box in multiple lists and it's cost effective
If I had the big meaty fist edit I would post it
>Anyone have any advice on fighting armor skew with Khador that isn't Butcher3 or Sorcha2?
Khador doesnt really need damage buffs to crack armor, they just need to field the units that are capable of doing it in the first place. That said
pIrusk, eIrusk, Butcher1, Butcher2. To a lesser extent Vlads.
When I was looking to get into trolls I had trouble deciding on what to purchase. Each of their casters can run fairly different lists which is cool and fun, but can get expensive quickly. I guess have him look at the casters then do a sort of slow growth style until he has at least 1 35 points list
My protectorate all in one box is slowly going somewhere. Severius is ready but i need some tips for him.
Like how can i make good use of his fire spell and feat, when my next games are most likely Skorne or protectorate.
Well, that depends. Which fire spell do you mean? He has ashes to ashes and immolation. His feat you make use of by using it against Warmachine casters for the most part. Depending on the Hordes caster you drop into his feat can be useful but you end up losing out on the focus manipulation effects.
>Have they done out of book releases before?
Acosta and that one Steelhead Solo were both NQ releases, as were the Black Dragon UA and Silver Line Stormguard.
It's also possible that it's simply going to be in the next Hordes book. They release models way in advance of the books they're in all the time.
The salespitch mentions he works for several factions, both minion pacts and circle. Almost every minion that works for circle also works for trolls, so I'd say you're outta luck. He might of course be complete garbage, maybe having medicate and inflict pain on his knife or something.
On the PP forums they seem to think he might let you sacrifice models in his CMD to clear the furry of of beasts in his CMD during the maintanance phase, kind of like the troll whelps comfort food ability.
Most Warmachine players have a "FOX ONLY, FINAL DESTINATION" type mentality.
It's annoying as hell, and in the case of my area it makes people shy away from starting because the tables look boring.
Rather I should have said
"The main reasons for both is a little of Columns A and B."
...but I feel compelled to add in that jab to the molasses quick game of magic that is Warmachines/Hordes.
>Steamroller is clear in terrain placements.
You mean the same Steamroller that says "an average table should have five to seven pieces of terrain placed closely enough to eliminate large open areas"?
The same steam roller that says no walls, obstructions in zones, away at 5 inches from flags and objectives. Hills, forest, shallow water within 3 inches from objectives and flags while permissable in zones.
walls and objectives may not be placed within 5 inches or any terrain, hills, forest, shallow water may be placed with minimum spacing of 3 inches.
>Hills, forest, shallow water within 3 inches from objectives and flags
It doesn't say that anywhere. Those are Unrestricted Terrain types that can be placed anywhere except in deployment zones or withing 2" of another terrain piece (except for trenches which can be placed in contact with other trenches).
>walls and objectives may not be placed within 5 inches or any terrain
Doesn't say that, either. It says they can't be placed within 5" of another piece of Restricted Terrain (i.e. another obstruction or linear obstacle)
>hills, forest, shallow water may be placed with minimum spacing of 3 inches.
It's 2", not 3".
And none of this changes the fact that the Steamroller document says that you should use 5-7 pieces of terrain. How about you actually read the Steamroller document?
Enough shit posting and spam from me.
I just went to my first steamroller in 3 years and realized that I have lost my feel for the game.
I dropped after first round after realizing I was not ready and did not put enough thinking into my list to stand any chance. I know it's kind of a shit attitude, but I did not want to sour the game for my opponent for the next 3 rounds. (I tend to mope when I see that the opponent has a clear path to victory when I don't see one for me and given my choices I felt like that was going to be the case every game)
...but is "Pick a strategy, then dial it to eleven" the de facto way of playing the game now?
Nearly every list except 3 dudes seemed to revolve around picking a strat and either spamming things around it. Like a more nuanced and fine tuned form of Dudespam from the early MKII days. I recall being able to take near whatever ( so long as it wasn't absolute garbage) and be able to deal with what was on the board. Granted the best I ever won was Third. Twice.
Now it kind of feels like Magic, but played really slowly. Where the idea is to build around "Token Spell", "Weaponmaster Spam", "Theme list" and then focus all or nothing on that.
I'm playing Legion with a Mixed Arms/ skew heavy beasts approach and it seems that if I face DoodSpams I have an uphill battle unless I alpha first or have a control style feat.
Is this just a culture change that happened within the last 3 years?
It's cool if it is, but I'm not sure if it's all in my head.
>"Pick a strategy, then dial it to eleven" the de facto way of playing the game now?
Yeah, Ironically the game is stale right now due to overabundance of diversity that we've experienced couple of years ago.
couple of years ago, things were in a balance where there were too many things to look out for. colossals demanded that you brought multiwound or heavies to wreck it, but those got wrecked by Cryx, and cryx got raped by cygnar's pea shooters which couldn't kill colossals.
At this point Skorne, Troll, Gators said fuck it. I'm just dialing one thing to the max and let the rest of the faggot world figure my shit out.
it worked and now everyone's bandwagoning against to counter that and counter the counter.
I feel like I'm in the minority that having terrain that only certain size bases could move through/between would be a good thing.
But then again, that would create a downside to colossals and PP would be afraid of limiting sales of the >$100 models.
I'm against base size restriction for movement because I play trolls, but I do think that colossals being granted free reign on movement is just kind of stupid.
I feel like choosing to go second and picking side should matter beyond "is there a hill"
>is "Pick a strategy, then dial it to eleven" the de facto way of playing the game now?
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: You already said it -
>Now it kind of feels like Magic, but played really slowly. Where the idea is to build around "Token Spell", "Weaponmaster Spam", "Theme list" and then focus all or nothing on that.
Theme lists and free points in them wrecked a lot of the fun for me. Yes, I own every Skorne model. No, I will not go buy another 4 boxes of Cataphracts solely so I can run Fist. The dumbest fucking shit I have ever heard. No, I will not go buy 6 Woldwatchers to run Bradigus, or 5+ Arguses to run Kromac2, or if I played Trolls, 12 lights.
No, I will not go buy Cephalyx to play B&S, or 5 Angeliuses to play Vayl2
Theme lists used to be about fluff and for 95% of them, the bonuses they gave were negligible. Now they're a fucking balancing tool, and really moreover, a goad to sell models. Period. I get it where a new model releasing might make an old Theme List do something it was never intended (Fist). But I don't give a shit what PPDF says - putting out shit like Kromac 2 or B&S in the "modern" era of the game proves what PP's intent is.
I've been slowly bleeding off my collection ever since PP made it obvious where the direction of the game was heading post Colo meta. I plan to keep my Skorne and I won't be buying anything new. Tired of the arms race - same arms race that goes on in the Magic meta, just instead of cardboard you're buying tiny plastic army men and they don't even fucking look that good compared to other model companies. Don't get me started on the "plastic kits."
Is there an easy way for trollbloods to field a more heavy beast oriented army? I want to get into them but light-spam is nuts for cost at basically 20$ per body. And doind dudespam with units is above average coat as always. I know legion isn't terribly expensive compared to most when going more heavy focused. I know to make a useable army there will almost always be at least a few from each category and all but still, there must be a method that's more cost effective than the others.
tl;dr how do I start trollbloods with limited money?
I run this with fair amount of success.
Hoarluk Doomshaper, Rage of Dhunia (*6pts)
* Troll Axer (6pts)
* Dire Troll Mauler (9pts)
* Earthborn Dire Troll (10pts)
* Mulg the Ancient (12pts)
* Rok (11pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes (4pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
Janissa Stonetide (3pts)
>But I don't give a shit what PPDF says - putting out shit like Kromac 2 or B&S in the "modern" era of the game proves what PP's intent is.
See, you're very much mistaken.
The problem with Theme Forces is that they simply aren't playtested nearly as much as anything else. PP clearly doesn't realize that some of the themes are going to be retarded, or they end up becoming insane after something new gets added to them.
Take Fist, for example, it was a middling tier until Indinciary hit to give it the ranged punch it needed.
And then you look at theme lists like Zaal2's new tier, which is laughably bad. If they wanted people to buy Immortals(a unit very few people really own outside of Zaal1 tier) why wouldn't his tier be on the level of B&S?
Tier lists aren't a balancing tool or a money grab, more often than not, they're honestly them putting out poorly thought and tested ideas. Some of them end up being total shit, some of them end up being absolutely insane.
Not to mention that EE was an attempt for people to get to play with the mountain king.
Welp, no one went tier 4.
Now Doomy 3 tier specifically mention discount on gargs for that reason.
>Why are you so against terrain?
Because too much terrain leads directly to "welp, no point in playing Menoth ever again".
The terrain rules are there to provide a functional game, not to provide a scenic backdrop for a photo shoot.
So instead of learning to play on varied terrain you just want a fucking barren table.
I primarily play fucking Khador and I wish tables were on average more terrain heavy. Boundless Charge helps warjacks, units of IFP or WGI, not so much.
Locally people bitch about Legion "ignoring rules" with all the pathfinder and eyeless sight, but when there's no fucking terrain on the table it makes no difference if those abilities exist or not.
Two boosted shots on feat turn give a pretty good chance.
I've killed many casters with a 2-Ravagor 2-Bolt thrower list. Lylyth shoots first, puts on Pin Cushion, Bolt throwers are rolling 4 dice on attack, so with 4 shots one's probably going to KD. Ravagores then bring the pain.
>...but is "Pick a strategy, then dial it to eleven" the de facto way of playing the game now?
You play to your strengths and you try to cover as many weaknesses as you can with out diluting what was great about your list in the first place.
>picking a strat and either spamming things around it.
There can be more to spamming than meets the eye. My Mad Dogs of War theme list (Doom reaver spam) relies on going first and jamming people out of zones. Want to take a step forward? Enjoy a fuckton of leader ship checks and free strikes. Every other game people are able to take that step forward and Butcher ends up preforming a caster kill in some fashion. You would think having 50+ weapon masters with multiple attacks would be all about fucking shit up and it isnt. The list is rather boring in all honesty, but it wins way more than it should. Against legion I will often end up killing none of their beasts, but will have won on scenario by turn 3.
>I'm playing Legion with a Mixed Arms/ skew heavy beasts approach and it seems that if I face DoodSpams I have an uphill battle unless I alpha first or have a control style feat.
Legion should always get the alpha and your feats are incredibly ball busting! You need to play to your strengths and drop the right casters into the right opponents. Unless I'm playing Mad Dogs My khador will never beat an appropriate Saeryn list, eLylyth is just as much of a fucking nightmare.
For those complaining about a lack of terrain, my meta's upcoming campaign uses these rules for terrain placement.
Minimum 4 pieces, each player chooses any 2 terrain pieces, rolls 1d3 and adds that many terrain pieces of their choosing to the total terrain pool, and then both players take turns placing pieces.
You end up with 6-10 pieces of terrain on the board, and players who have terrain specific advantages get to pick stuff that is actually useful to their models (i.e. amphibious, forest walk, etc), but they still have to consider what will happen if they don't win the side of the table they really want, so it becomes a mind game of trying to place things that are advantageous to yourself and disadvantageous to your opponent.
So you are saying that I can't win unless I bring the control casters in Legion? :(
I'm... not sure I'm okay with that. It just seems that the game has grown so much that stuff that you used to be able to play around requires feats or control to truly avoid. I don't like being pigeonholed into stuff.
I can't give as good as I get with stuff like that across the table unless I come prepared. Or maybe the skill required to respond to that has gone up as well.
I just don't know anymore. I never really enjoyed list building because of how, if done poorly can lead to a skewed chance at losing....but if done properly can skew the other way. So I try and build generalists list and see if I can figure things out on the table.
Oh and I dunno. I think I just might not be cut out for this on a competitive level. At least not anymore.
I don't think Champions would bring me the sense of security I'm looking for either.
I'll try my luck on pub games and see if I can avoid some of that stuff. Otherwise I might just go back to historicals.
>So you are saying that I can't win unless I bring the control casters in Legion? :(
I wouldnt really call Saeryn control, if anything she is more of a denial caster. The feat and blight bringer completely shit wreck a lot of lists and she isnt their most competitive. eLylyth is more of an attrition caster, you trade hits with out actually having to trade hits. That said there are still plenty of other casters that can get the job done with out being overtly faggy (eThag), but thats not what tournament play is about.
> It just seems that the game has grown so much that stuff that you used to be able to play around requires feats or control to truly avoid. I don't like being pigeonholed into stuff.
thats how its always been though, I think youre just now waking up to the fact or your meta has atleast.
>I can't give as good as I get with stuff like that across the table unless I come prepared.
You need to focus on doing just that.
>Need more skill
The better the match up the less skill required to win. Figure out a couple of lists that can cover each others weakness while offering plenty of questions to your opponent that if go unanswered cause them to lose the game. Then figure out which list is the best to drop against what ever pairing you're facing.
Honestly I think tournaments offer the worst play experience. I rather play friendly, but competitive, games amongst people who aren't total try hards. I want to a challenge, but I rather not spend an entire day with strangers to find one. If you can get what you want from the game with out having to go to a tourney by all means do it.
So, I'm relatively new at this so bare with me.
I live in Canada, BC on Van isl. The weather here is usually super humid.
I spray primed (p3 black) my beast handlers/swordsmen in the summer at high humidity/heat (90%/ 40 C) and the prime job came out grainy and sub par.
Googled it and it turns out high humidity + heat tends to dry the primer out mid air before it hits the model. So, pinned it at a learning mistake and moved on with painting etc.
So, now I'm wanting to prime my gladiator. The daily weather fluctuates between 78-98% humidity and 7-13 C (Average being 82%/10.2 C).
Is priming outside going to give the same grainy effect it did in summer or will it go on smoother because of low heat?
good priming technique?
Humidity will still likely be a problem, despite the cool air.
I'd open some windows to prime inside, and cut up a cardboard box as a shield so you don't get it all over the place.
That method is referred to as zenithal priming and it is a very useful tool.
Prime black from about a foot away, then, after drying, lightly prime white from a further distance and from a top down perspective.
What happens is that the inner recesses of the model stay black, while the raised portions become white, highlighting the model for you.
If you thin your paints well enough, you won't have to worry about highlights as the differences in primer will act as a modifier to the layers of paint you put on them.
Look at some more zenithal priming videos to get a feel for how its done.
What is nearly as important as painted minis? Cool bases. Any tips? Used glue and sand( frankonian Sand, full o small stones) with overall good results, but i want to ante it up a notch.
Also Severius got some mud to stand in. Better keep his robes clean.
After you paint the sand, drybrush it with some earth color. Add flock for good measure, but for god's sake, don't overdo the flocking. Stick to patches of grass or snow, and just use regular PVA glue for it.
If you decide to use grass flock, dip the model in the grass, give it a minute to set in, then flip the model upside down and tap on the base. This gets rid of excess flock that hasn't stuck and makes the flock that has stuck stand up straight rather than look like a mess of ugly shit.
So, apparently I'm really bad at this game and I want to get better. To do this I need to know some things I don't know.
>How can I tell which units/models will be good at cracking armor?
Other than dead giveaways like Armor Piercing I have no real surefire way of knowing. I know it involves high Pow, but P 18 doesn't really sound like armor cracking when the armor is 25.
>How can I tell which units are tarpits?
Other than dudes, dudes, dudes this seems a bit odd to me too. I'm guessing cheap is key, but cheap dudes tend to die in droves and don't really tar that pit.
>How do I know what roles my lists need without knowing what my opponent will bring?
No clue on this whatsoever.
>How can I get the first strike in?
I play Circle, I know that I need to get the alpha or be at a disadvantage because my army is glass cannons. I almost never get the first strike.
>but P 18 doesn't really sound like armor cracking when the armor is 25.
what the fuck are you fighting against?
If you want to crack armor the best way to do it is by fielding units with the weapon master ability (more dice is more damage) and units that hit extremely hard POW 18 is a good start. Then find a caster/other shit that makes this stuff hit even harder.
>other than dudes, dudes, dudes this seems a bit odd to me too. I'm guessing cheap is key, but cheap dudes tend to die in droves and don't really tar that pit.
there are speed bumps (cheap dudes that waste activations, tar pits (nearly indestructible units that will engulf your models), and jams (units with reach that prevent your models from moving due to free strikes.
>No clue on this whatsoever.
Figure out what you want to play, then build a list for it. Then build a second list to cover the weaknesses of the first. If the first list also covers the weaknesses of the second list youre golden.
>I play Circle, I know that I need to get the alpha or be at a disadvantage because my army is glass cannons. I almost never get the first strike.
Start reading articles on how to play circle, watch videos of other people, listen to podcasts, and learn from your mistakes and don't be afraid to try new things until you've figured it out.
god damn you are needy
Alright I've never based and model and now feel as if I've severely fucked up by painting my guys first.
I have the GW sand and some browns / tans, as well as some static grass and flock.
How tricking is it going to be to base models that are already painted? Do I still need to paint the GW sand or should I just highlight it?
>So instead of learning to play on varied terrain you just want a fucking barren table.
No, I want a functional game. The right amount of terrain for Warmachine is not the indiscriminate terrain vomit of Warhammer or the elaborate chutes and ladders setup of Infinity. Terrain MEANS something in this game, and too much throws the game balance to shit. If you can't handle a table that isn't as complex as an Escher painting, this game isn't for you.
Also, I play Circle. More terrain means more win for me. I don't want to just win all my games for free because half my opponents can't possibly navigate the hellish labyrinth that terrain overload creates.
>So, apparently I'm really bad at this game
I have played 5 years and still forget rules, as do other people who have played for years. Unless you're getting like 10+ games a week, you will too.
>>How can I tell which units/models will be good at cracking armor?...when the armor is 25.
Weapon Master charges for 4 dice damage combined with any damage buffs (fury / battle lust / primal / choir / some feats / etc). Arm 25 is usually only attained temporarily through a combination of spells, shield wall, camped focus, or feat. Also there are armor debuffs: Dark Shroud, Crippling Grasp, Parasite, Curse of Shadows, a few others.
>>How can I tell which units are tarpits?
Tough, high defense, multiwound with high armor, no knockdown, unyielding, or some form of recursion (Revive, Enigma Foundry, Stitch Thralls, some feats)
>>How do I know what roles my lists need without knowing what my opponent will bring?
Find a gimmick and play into it. Some gimmicks are better than others and mesh more universally than others. IE: pDenny feat goes with virtually anything, while something like pMakeda feat is really only useful when running at least 2 squads of infantry. Other feats you don't even really build around because they're just not something you can build into - ie: Moshar, but his spell list (pillars and curse of shadows) does give some consideration as to what you should bring: Things to offset his fury load so he can get more casts out (Druid Wilder, Stones) and at least 1-2 arc nodes (Gallows Grove), maybe even Megalith or a Woldwarden.
>>How can I get the first strike in?
>I play Circle, I know that I need to get the alpha
Vastly depends on what kind of Circle list you're playing. From a generic perspective, Circle is more about a combination of denial (Antimagic, Clouds, Pillars, Forest Templates, Rough Terrain Templates, high(er) defense) and surgical removal (Teleporting Reach Heavies, Hunters Mark charges, Druid force bolts, Primal, double Blackclad Sprays, Rotterhorns, Una).
A few Circle lists are like a blunt instrument (Kromac2, Bradigus), but the most successful ones (Kruger2) is about maintaining total control over the board state and establishing big "no go" zones for the enemy through the threat of having a Stalker standing in a teleport triangle that can threat out to approx 11 inches from where it's standing (8 in teleport, 2 in reach, base width for "within" teleport). That can give some casters serious pause - particularly ones that want your entire army in their control range to feat on them like the Dennys.
First things first - learn to use Druids +UA to their full effectiveness. They are our ultimate toolbox and their performance can win or lose games. You want them to do work every game. If they get immediately shut down and don't do shit, they're absolute dead weight and a waste of 9 precious points for a scant 7 models.
After that, the Stalker. Learn its strengths and weaknesses. Applying a Stalker or Ghetorix correctly is your win condition more often than not. When to Primal, when not to Primal. When to Sprint, when to warp
Pick a solid list and stick with it. If you hate Druids (or don't want to buy) I reccomend Kromac1, because Bestial can cover the antimagic for Druids. I would wait to pick up Krueger2 until you're comfortable with most of the units, because Krueger2 unlocks so many possibilities that it is incredibly difficult to consider all options if you're not clear on how shit works baseline. Moshar is pretty newb friendly.
>Slow grow Journeyman
>Gaspy1 tier with 30 Mcthralls.
I'd drop on turn 1 after he spends half the turn moving all his models and go get something to eat.
Hope he enjoyed the "game."
I do not understand why pKreoss isn't played more, he has an excellent toolbox and a great feat. I play Cryx and Circle, and have yet to be handed a two-list PoM pairing at a tournament with two casters scarier than him.
If you want purification and durability, you are playing harby.
You are basically playing for pop and drop which colossals negate.
List pairing demands that you take either Harby or Kreoss because the matchups they cover is too redundant if taken at same time.
Harby vs Kreoss, Harby wins unless the meta is just fucking crawling with cygnar.
Eh, eh... kinda.
Cryx player in the winning team at the very recent World Team Championship:
Note between the two lists, there is exactly one entry (Devil's Shadow Mutineers) that is *not* in the "Forces of" books from the very beginning of MKII.
The meta has changed a few times since MKII came out, but the overall power level hasn't changed much; Cryx was the top, probably still is, and their best lists run 80%+ stuff from Forces of Cryx. Most other factions have caught up, though, and the hard-to-beat lists tend to rely on spamming highly efficient models, and the dominant spammables right now are medium bases with lots of ARM and boxes. The people who care about winning, though (i.e., those who come to a Steamroller event) have gotten better over time, and list selection goes along with that.
That last point is kinda key; there's been three years of practice and list optimization in the past three years. You're going to get facefucked walking back into it blind.
The problem lies in his control range. 14" means if you don't kill the enemy warlock/warcaster, chances are they can bring their own firepower to bear and put Kreoss into the dirt. Also, several things are now straight up immune to knockdown now. For example, Aradus Sentinels are immune to the feat, hide your warlock well, AND put Kreoss down the following turn.
14" is actually pretty good. The problem is, the faction also has Harbinger, who has a 20" control area and can use Purify more safely. Kreoss' feat is pretty good, but in order to use it, he needs to get much closer than Harbinger. If he wants to do both he needs to get close and goes down to a 15/20 assuming he camps the rest. On top of that, more and more things are immune to knockdown, meaning Kreoss is staying less and less relevant.
Eh, make a few changes here and there and practice. Good Legion lists have not changed all *that* much in three years.
You'll need a Naga if you don't have one (honestly I don't recall how old it was, but when I last played Legion around the "Forces of" book, I lamented the lack of magic weapons in the faction), maybe a couple more beasts (as you mentioned mixed arms, and most competitive Legion lists have almost no units except for the spawning vessel), eVayl and eAbby (along with eLylyth, pVayl, and Saeryn you're already familiar with, they're the "big five" these days), and you're pretty much there. No need to get any of the existing Legion huge bases (although the upcoming Blight Bringer is quite good).
Just get some time in the game. It can be overwhelming, since while Legion is still one of the top factions, it's not as strong relative to the rest of the field as it was three years ago.
Looking for a little critique on my Barnabas list, not build for any particular matchup or pairing at the moment.
Bull Snapper 3
Sacral Vault 9
Totem Hunter 3
Gator gunline, interesting idea, but the posse is too damn good with barny to pass up on. Also taking croak without a witch doc croc to make them tough means that when they get popped, they'll always pop.
That said, Legion lists are currently changing and will even more once the Blightbringer comes out. I fully expect typical list pairings to come down to one traditional beast-heavy list like Machinations and one more infantry-focussed one like pThags with Warspears (which is already a good list without the BB) in mid-2016.
>pThags with Warspears
I also think that is going to be nasty with the Blight Bringer, especially since Thags can wip out his old theme force that makes the warspears FA:U.
But I think eLylyth with a list like>>43548158 could be even worse. We're talking about two AoE 5 templates of Pow 15, so pow 8 blast damage (both boosted if the croak raiders dose everything in oil beforehand). With the ravagores animus on the BB everything under those two AoE 5s is now on fire (again, boosted thanks to the croaks), loses tough for a round and has -2 def. And then you get the ravagores on top of that.
Knowing the cryx makeup still fucks me up.
I hear people all the time complaining that thi9s tier list or that unit/caster is OP and i just look at the sheer breadth of stuff cryx can take without comment and wonder if maybe the rest of the meta is just about playing catchup to them.
Particularly as you can tech against all of the common drops to a greater or lesser extent, but i just can't think of something that just straight up denies any of the common cryx drops. Which then means in order to play at a steamroller you ALSO need that and then we have the meta as it is played.
I mean i might be wrong here but i can't think of anything that techs say Body and Soul effectively enough that you can be reasonably sure of taking the advantage, compare that to the fact that even at the tournament level some drops just hit a brick wall against B&S and similar and i just don't fucking know.
>But I think eLylyth with a list like>>43548158 could be even worse.
In a different way. That is a variation on regular eLylyth lists. How well the BB works in them remains to be seen. It's good no doubt, but so are two Ravagores.
I'm thinking more of really infantry-focussed lists. pThags and to a lesser degree Kallus will be a lot of fun with the BB and kind of make me want to play legion.
>wonder if maybe the rest of the meta is just about playing catchup to them.
In a word, yes.
>i just can't think of something that just straight up denies any of the common cryx drops
Tourny players all know their infantry-clearing options in their faction; the strength Cryx has right now is while it used to be everyone took their all-comers list and a Cryx list, now it's usually all-comers and an anti-ARM-skew list (or anti-colossal), so at tournaments Cryx sees less specific anti-Cryx tech than they did 3-4 years ago.
>I mean i might be wrong here but i can't think of anything that techs say Body and Soul effectively enough that you can be reasonably sure of taking the advantage,
Assuming you're the Legion dude above, run eVayl in tier. You cat Purification first turn, and the big advantage of B&S goes away, and eVayl likes to run really beast-heavy; Shadow Bind is shakeable now, so her feat becomes "Put one Fury on every warbeast." And then eVayl in tier is a great all-comers list, so you've still got room to tech for something else.
>It's good no doubt, but so are two Ravagores.
Well that's why you take both.
> pThags and to a lesser degree Kallus will be a lot of fun with the BB
I've played some variations of Kallus meat mountain lists with the ogruns and I just never consider them all that fun. I've always found killing shit is more fun than being almost unkillable. That's why I play legion, I guess. I'm also still a bit skeptical whether or not a list that uses the Blight Bringer mostly for it's infantry support is really getting enough out of the investment. 18 points for a hard to kill support piece that you park on the scenario seems like it could go either way.
>I've played some variations of Kallus meat mountain lists with the ogruns and I just never consider them all that fun. I've always found killing shit is more fun than being almost unkillable. That's why I play legion, I guess. I'm also still a bit skeptical whether or not a list that uses the Blight Bringer mostly for it's infantry support is really getting enough out of the investment. 18 points for a hard to kill support piece that you park on the scenario seems like it could go either way.
I was thinking of 2x Warspears+UA and Swordsmen+UA as well as the BB, a pot and some support. That list is plenty killy (POW15-17 weapon masters for example). The BB should sit back most of the game and only be committed once shit hits the fan. Almost like a Colossal, actually.
Body and Soul is so 3 months ago.
Anti Cryx is just anti dude spam most of the time. Dont you play Circle? Citcle already has a ton of anti cryx tech, its one of our least good match ups.
Quit whinning and do some reaserch
Looking into Fist of Halaak as a new list for me since I have the models and I have some general questions:
1: Would the Cannoneer and/or Aradus Sentinels be good choices for beasts? Their animi are very good and having an AoE debuff to cover many cataphracts seems good.
2: Is it better to have more Arcuarii/Incindiarii or more Cetratii? I can get two min units for the price of one max Cetratii unit, but they're not as tough.
3: With the current objectives, would it be worth it to go to tier 3 over tier 2? I could spend 4 points on two Flayer cannons which gives me some long range firepower and early contesting models for cheap. Alternatively, the Catapults could let me get at support models easier and possibly hit their AD line on the top of 1.
4: Is Vorkesh ever worth it?
Basically, I'm trying to figure out the tier list's weaknesses and see if I can cover them. Seems like the list struggles on certain scenarios (due to the lack of fast units) and in general, doesn't like Cryx, Siege, Scorscha2, or hard control effects. Was thinking of using Bugs, AD Artillery, Tiberion, and/or Vorkesh to shore up its weaknesses.
>1: Would the Cannoneer and/or Aradus Sentinels be good choices for beasts? Their animi are very good and having an AoE debuff to cover many cataphracts seems good.
Aradus might be interesting. A bit unconventional, but interesting.
>2: Is it better to have more Arcuarii/Incindiarii or more Cetratii? I can get two min units for the price of one max Cetratii unit, but they're not as tough.
One Cetrati unit is usually enough. If you expect lots or armor cracking you can also omit that unit.
>3: With the current objectives, would it be worth it to go to tier 3 over tier 2? I could spend 4 points on two Flayer cannons which gives me some long range firepower and early contesting models for cheap. Alternatively, the Catapults could let me get at support models easier and possibly hit their AD line on the top of 1.
I think not.
>4: Is Vorkesh ever worth it?
With Mordikaar, yes. Not so much with Xerxis, who wants to give them def ward.
when you use him, you basically only use him for blood drinker. warspears don't need mat or rat fixing. always take the warspear chieftain first.
if you're in thagrosh's tier the he's the obvious choice, and you get one for free. but in kallus for instance, the croc doc is also a good choice for the same cost
that's because most of the broken things are from the original forcebooks.
Errants and bane thralls are obvious.
Cryx had so much bullshit in the mkii forces book that PP keeps giving them sub par new shit.
So cryx players don't use it. Or rarely. Like erebus.
Well, the answer to that is one dead kreoss.
and here's one i made earlier.
Kreoss casts purif, then lamentation.
my turn, i am so sad, no spells :(
But the caster is within 14" kreoss, so can walk 5" or 6" then feat/shoot whateva
load up warjacks, clear charge lane, charge kreoss, win game.
GG Kreoss1 !
Play obavnik lady gaga and starkov, it'll be much more fun, and you'll actually win games because everybody expects and knows how to counter all three variations of the fat red bastard.
I rly don't like butcher either and again nothing to do with how powerful he is. He's jsut so bland.
git gud faggot.
Terrain unbalances the game like going first, or using models in your army, or using dice to determine random outcomes.
terrain is in the rulebook, scrub, get used to it.
you fucking retard.
I play menoth, on tables with a minimum of 9 terrain pieces.
Against trolls, everblight, cygnar, skorne, khador most of the time.
Do i lose every game ?
No, faggot, no i don't.
you can go cry salty tears because YOU aren't good enough to play the game correctly
ok I've got the syntherion battle box in a journeyman league. at 15 i added a corolarry and a directive.
what can I buy that would work with synth to 35 but would also allow for caster swapping aurora when I can?
I'd like to go slowly into CoC so I don't want to buy two 35 point armies off the bat
Nigger I play Circle, I get FREE WINS if we go with your retarded terrain-vomit strategy. I don't want free wins, I want the game to actually work, which it doesn't with a billion terrain pieces.
that could completely ruin an army like trolls or CoC.
>HURRR YOU CANT FIT IN THE BUILDING
>PEW PEW PEW
no thanks anon, I like a fair fight.
>I feel like choosing to go second and picking side should matter beyond "is there a hill"
if only going first or second effected scenario play in some sort of meaningful way, like how the scoring worked... What if by deploying first you could easily jam opponents out of scenario or run your models up the table with out any repercussion? What if when going second you could deploy your army around theirs for optimal encounters?
Holy shit anon, do you even play this fucking game?