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Archived threads in /trv/ - Travel - 68. page
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I go to Houston for some uni stuff soon, and I'll have about two weeks to travel afterwards. I don't drive, and I will be travelling alone. What cities/places around Houston are okay without a car? I'm considering New Orleans.
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>>1127217
New Orleans should be okay without a car. Houston is too big and hot to be waiting on meager transit. Light rail isn't that extensive. Get a driving licence at home so you can rent a car.
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>>1127240
Cool, I probably will go to New Orleans. Amtrak and Megabus (sounds fishy, but eh) seem to be possible. During my stay in Houston I will be with other people, and we'll have a car.

Any idea about San Antonio / Dallas / Austin?
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Austin and San Antonio are fun. Lots of traffic I. Austin. New Orleans is cool too. I'm about 2 hours from there. Never go, but still fun when I do

I'm going in Slovenia this summer in Ljubljana for 7/10 days, do you have any specific advice?
I saw on internet some recommendations about the town of Bled for its landscape, it is a beautiful city?
Should I book a day or two to go to the coast?
thank you.
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Slovenia is quite a small country so getting to around is very quick. If you can, rent a car for a few days and with it you can easily visit Bled and/or coastal towns. If you go to Bled, make sure you also visit lake Bohinj. Bled is nice, but there's really nothing that special about it other than the lake and the castle. You can also visit Koper which is a coastal town. From there you can easily visit Trieste in Italy or Croatia, since they're both very near.

Enjoy your time there, Slovenia is amazing.
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must see:
Goriška brda
>best wine in this part of eu
>also bridge with the largest stone arch in the way there, Solkan
Piran
>small and old coastal city, Koper is crap
Ljubljana
>metelkova street, unique underground scene
Bled/Bohinj
>both cites are shitty but nature is awesome also google blejski vintgar
Kras
>Postonjska jama; very noise cave
>Škocjanske...
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I went to Ljubljana and Bled at around about this time last year. Ljubljana is very nice but there's not actually that much to do there - it's a great place to chill out for a little bit, but not too exciting (unless I missed out on something). From what I can remember, Metelkova is interesting and worth a visit, and the walking tour is good for learning about some of the history of Slovenia (and Yugoslavia). Other than that there's not too much to recommend.

Bled is very nice, but quite touristy. I didn't visit it myself, but I heard from others that...
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Hey there, friendo.
I'm going to visit Amsterdam in a couple of weeks, and I was wondering if there was anywhere inparticular you were impressed with if you went there. I am looking to smoke a lot of weed, so if there's a specific place that's for that, let me know.
As well as that, I'll be heading to the dungeons, and the heineken factory; but if there's anywhere that's as good, please let me know. Thank you, you'd be a great help. I can help you with your programming homework if you want(pretty much my only skill) in exchange for help...
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amsterdam is a pretty cool city but as with most cities in the netherlands, it's relatively small compared to other country's cities, which means that you can see a hell of a lot more in the same span of time.
as soon as you walk out of the central station, you should walk towards the oude kerk (old church) on the Oudezijds Voorburgwal. you will be amazed that there is this much prositution literally next to a church.
Even though I live in the netherlands I don't get to amsterdam often so I can't really give good recommendations, but here are a few...
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>>1126759

I am not OP and I am going to Amsterdam next week (graduation trip with my class). Do you know about any good souvenir shops that don't rip you off with cheap stuff? (Want some souvenirs for my family) and what is a good souvenir anyway? Those wooden shoes(as a keychain or whatever is all I can think of and tulips won't last that long)
Also what is your national dish? I went to London last year and a local told me that the 'tourist trap'-national dish is fish n chips which most people don't...
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>>1126961
>National dish
>The Netherlands
>Haute cuisine

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Any of you guys been to Georgia and/or Armenia before? How were they? I am thinking of spending two weeks in each country (from the beginning of July to beginning of August). I really enjoy hiking and nature so if anyone has any input about some hiking they did there it would be appreciated. Did you find some nice spots to relax in either Georgia or Armenia? I am just about to finish quite a stressful period of my life before moving abroad at the end of summer for a new job, so I'd like to be able to recharge my batteries a bit before leaving. What the level of English...
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Monitoring this thread as I'm looking to do the same thing in late July.
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OP here. I should also add that I speak French. Do many people there speak it? I don't know if its very common there (maybe though because of the large amounts of Armenians who move to France and Quebec)
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>>1125942
Only been to Georgia twice so far, haven't made it to Armenia yet.

>(from the beginning of July to beginning of August)
I hope you are like scorching summer heat then.
>What the level of English like amongst young people?
In bigger cities and more touristy places: decent. Also, while I speak French quite fluently, I haven't encountered anyone speaking it so far. German was surprisingly helpful on a few occasions, but if you want to play safe, learn some basic Russian. Almost everyone speaks it in both countries.

>hiking
Several regions in the Georgian Caucasus are excellent hiking terrain: Tusheti and Kazbegi, with the most developed long hiking route being Omalo - Shatili - Juta - Kazbegi. Have your passport on you in that region though, border guards will want to check it - shouldn't be much of a hassle. Another region suitable for hiking is Svaneti - Mestia is the biggest town there, but don't neglect the smaller villages en route, or further down the road. Borjomi NP also has hiking trails, but I hear it's not quite as spectacular as the high Caucasus - it's mostly forested hills.
Considering Armenia: there's supposed to be hiking trails. That's all I know really.

Pic is near Juta.

Hi there, not sure if this is the right thread to post this in but I'm hoping it's close enough.

Basically myself and my partner need somewhere to live near London and I was hoping to hear other people's opinions on where to live that isn't in the city itself but close enough to commute in when required.
Right now Ashford (near Hounslow) is looking very promising (cheaper due to the airport) but I want to explore my options and gain some insight. Many thanks in advance
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You could look for places that will be on the new Crossrail line. A few of the stations are outside but will connect directly to London.

Some of the areas are cheap now but the prices might go up in the future when Crossrail opens.
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Luton. (:
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>>1125027
hahaha no thanks!

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Jerusalem & Israel AMA
Been living here for 16 years, 10 years in Jerusalem. I will try giving you the best answers. I'd like to give you some tours to show cool places
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Ayyo dude what's the weed situation like mon
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>>1122077
why do airport security treat most tourists as terrorists at the airport?
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>>1122214
The israelis i have met in the USA are very aggressive and hostile...definitely not laid back people. I think they have a lot of guilt in becoming the very nazis that they condemn

East coast ausfag heading to WA later this winter. Never been before. What should I know about the west coast, specifically perth/maybe freemantle? Cheers
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It's real bad. City dead every single night except Friday/Saturday.
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>>1129995
:(
I'm from wollongong though so I'm used to it
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>>1129995
Ok, but outside of nightlife what else is there to do in the city of within a feasible distance of the city?

I have $25,000 USD cash and other non-liquid assets, I'm fairly attractive for the area (500 matches on Tinder in 3 days in Manila as a guy), and I have experience in tech support and other fields. Do you think it would be viable for a 20 year old American guy to move to the Philippines (most likely Manila or Taguig), and start a new life? If I can work remotely from PH at a US based job I could easily make more than enough to live comfortably in a city.

Compared to where I live in the US, the people are nicer, the weather is warmer, the cost of living is about 4...
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Could be, bear in mind that while there are some advantages to operating in a developing country there are also downsides like unreliable infrastructure, different business cultures, widespread crime/corruption etc. As for the people, yeah you will always be of interest to the locals because you're different and perceived as rich, but again you may find it difficult to make meaningful friendships.

Working remotely isn't all that easy to set up, you usually need experience/reputation first but I guess if you can differentiate yourself based on lower cost you...
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>>1129925
Well I have a couple years experience in working in tech support over the phone and would be happy to work the night shift at a call center for minimum wage and no benefits. I'm a native English speaker and have good customer service skills. I could possibly look into work doing Photography, modeling, stripping, or something of the sort at a physical location there. With what I have saved and what I can sell off, I can easily float myself for a year or so, not that I would go out there blindly without a job lined...
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>>1129918

You have two options:

1) You do it. Whether you fail or succeed doesn't really matter because you will be writing a great page of your life regardless of the outcome.

2) You don't do it. Few years later you'll look back and realize you've done nothing, just wasted your life at home.

The choice is up to you.

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I need a motorhome. A relatively "affordable", "inexpensive", "economic" one. That is, one that is under 10 grand to buy. I dont want a trailer, or a bus, or something huge. Just a truck pictured, or maybe even a van if a truck isnt possible.

I'd prefer used, as I'm not afraid of learning to repair or replace stuff. I also dont know need anything huge, but would prefer something "decent" in the economic range.

What would your recommendations be under criteria like this?

I'm planning on traveling around...
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You could probably get a good deal on a vintage style fixer upper. It won't be modern, it might have a frigidaire in it, but the hipster chicks will dig it.
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Or how about a Shasta F-250

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What's the best time of your life to travel?
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>>1129337
Right fucking now?
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When you earn $16K+ per second
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>>1129337
after you die

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This may sound like a stupid question, but what's a good place to experience rain? I'm looking for a nice, comfy, medium-sized city where I can hang out for a month or so and experience a moody, rainy scenery. Looking for maximum level of comfiness.

I've travelled around SEA during the wet season, and while it was fun, the combination of rain and jungle was tiresome after a while. This time I'm leaning more towards a european city. Any suggestions?
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In the west of Ireland from October-March it rains almost all the fucking time. Beautiful scenery too, could be what you're looking for. Galway is the biggest city in the area
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>>1128077
Pacific Northwest, USA

Seattle or Portland, Oregon
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>>1128081
This.

Also the towns on the coast of Oregon might be a bit too small for you but
>maximum level of comfiness
describes them well in my opinion.

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Is it possible for me, as a 21 year old Australian, to rent a car from somewhere in Europe and use it to travel for about a month?

I'll be arriving in London so England would be the easiest place to rent one if it's possible.
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Will you be going back to London at the end of your trip?
Then there shouldn't be a problem.

If you're leaving from another location, you'll need to find a chain rental that allows you to drop the car off in another one of their rental places.
>>
Hello Aussie,

You will need a credit card with more than a token limit on it.

Also, quite a lot of rental companies insist on you having been a driver for several years already. I know this from experience.

Might be worth looking in to "international drivers licences". (Usually a cheap process at a post office) These can make a difference to the car rental process in some parts of the world. Not sure about the UK 'cause I have a full licence there.

That other anon is right about drop-off points. You need to think about that.

Also,...
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You can, but they will charge you an extortionate amount of money. I believe the age the rental rates come down for is 24? I rented a car in the UK when I was 23 and I remember it's been close to 350 pounds for 6 days. I'm now 27 and just booked a rental car for 5 days for around 90 pounds.
Unless you want to get to somewhere really obscure and not serviced by trains or busses it's not worth it.
Also, don't worry about the international drivers license it makes no difference in the UK.

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Hey /trv/

I'm 24 y.o. and will be traveling in July to Chicago with a group of students.

>have never been to the USA
>haven't traveled since I was a child
>am looking forward to enjoy the most of it!

What would you guys recommend?
>places to go party
>places to eat
>places to visit
>things to avoid

Basically, what...
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>>1125925
>things to avoid
Everything. Food is bland and hotels are overpriced as fuck.
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>>1127000
' ' is great you fucking pleb
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>>1125925
tell us what country youre from and if there are any hostels youve checked out yet

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Hey there! Do you ever thought about visiting the Ukraine? This summer is a great time to do it due to political situation, westerns now are highly welcome here. There is also more occasions to do it:
1) It's cheap as hell.
2) Visa free.
3) Girls will like you for sure.
4) It's safe. No crazy russkies with akas don't swarming everywhere.
5) It's not far if you European.
And a special offer - i will guide you for free. But not like shit for the tourists with memorials and parks in the Kiev or Lviv. We could visit as much cities as you want...
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just use my daily bump
>>
There you may learn about the expirience of an american guy.
>>>/int/59889643
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>>1119536
'murrican guys make me crazy (most of them).
They're not happy if they can't find a 4g connection, wifi spot or if they can't find a perfect copy of their lifestyle.

Do they have a hole as toilets? Do they wear tracksuits? What's the matter? Enjoy the differences, fortunately we're not 'murican copies!

ps. 10/10 qt
pps. I would like to visit your country sooner or later!

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Hey guys. I'm 21, with no debt and nothing holding me down. I decided I'm gonna travel as much as possible.

My first stop is Peru. Now, I'm half Peruvian and have a lot of family out there. I should probably be able to stay with them, but if not what are some good places to stay at?

And regarding pricing, how much do you think it would cost me for airfare, shelter, and spending money for 2 weeks out there?

Any do's or dont's regarding the culture and such? I looked for Peru in the catalog and found a helpful anon with a lot of...
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>>1129347
>I'm half Peruvian
Okay, let's talk about the fact that you have zero clue about life and travel, really can't believe your questions. If you want to know what kind of food or money you'd need, start adding up airfare, hotels and restaurants. Find some menus online, and hit up expedia or something.

For local places to stay, yes, do count on relatives to host you and show you local experiences firsthand and friends. This can add to expenses not just be "free"...
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>>1129381
Yeah I'm out of my zone on this, hence me coming here.

But the problem is that My other half is Russian so I am usually the whitest in a group of people.

I'll do what you said and do some calculations to find out what I'm gonna need and such.

I know enough spanish to get me and another speaker to understand each other. That's it. I should learn more?
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Your relatives there can give you better advice than anyone here.

Would help if you say what you're going to do there, Peru is a pretty big country. If you're going for 2 weeks is it the usual Lima-Cuzco-Inca Trail-Lake Titicaca?

I'd budget $1000 for roundtrip airfare (don't know where you live, or when you're going), another 1000 for travel inside (you can spend a lot less if you're willing to go by bus, but you don't have much time) and $50/day so $700 for a total of 2700. If you're willing to go cheap and/or can mooch...
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How to accomplish this in the way that will fuck me the least.

I am neither Israeli nor Jew, but live and work in Tel Aviv
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>>1128942
I think they will send you away at the border if there is evidence that you have been to Israel. Do you have a passport without Israeli stamps? If so, you might try to fly to Turkey and get to Iran overland? No idea, 2bh.
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>>1128942
>How to accomplish this in the way that will fuck me the least.
Kek

Step 1: move to another country
Step 2: get a new passport
Step 3: Visit Iran, it's a great country
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>>1128942
I don't think they stamp your passport in Israel for precisely this reason. You get an additional document instead of a stamp. I might be wrong about this, though.

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/forums/middle-east/israel/no-more-israeli-passport-stamps

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Hey /trv/

Tomorrow I'm getting on a train and going to be stuck on it for like 6 or 7 hours or so. It's not even that far, like ~300km, but this mofo stops on every single little insignificant train stop between departure point and arrival. There was no express train either.

Anyway, I'm not a regular here. I'm just stopping by to ask this one question.

What do you guys listen to while travelling? I'm talking podcasts, music, radio, anything. I'm hoping to get some ideas for something fresh.

>pic...
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Currently traveling for 2+ weeks. I find audiobooks to be really nice when I dont have wifi or mobile. If you do here a re some podcasts I like having listened to all of 99pi:

-stuff you should know
-criminal
-the moth
-snap judgement
-radiolab
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>>1128895
You're probably better off asking /adv/ since it moves faster and you'll be leaving soon.

I'll throw in This American Life and go to the favorites section.
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I listen to Katawa Shoujo's soundtrack when flying, calms me down.
Tom Waits, The Doors or Super Eurobeat when on the road at night depending on the mood.

Fever Ray, Lorn, The Knife, Charles Mingus, Trentemoller, Burial.
I could go on.

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Is going to Las Vegas worth it? Is going ALONE worth it?
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>>1128666
That's the ONLY way it would be worth it. Otherwise your vacation turns into babysitting/arguing/BS ie not the fun shit you came to do.
>>
Fuck yeah it's worth it
>>
Recommend stuff to do, it's my second time travelling ever and my first time alone.

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VIETNAM general.

Charlie in the trees motherfuckers.

Im moving to saigon in july to work.

Any tips, ideas, best food places.

Ive been there twice for a few weeks.

Share the info stories etc.
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>>1128475
Sad bump
>>
The best bowl of Pho in Saigon is on Pham Ngu Lao, a block west of the Hideout Hostel. Can't offer you more than that.
>>
You're in the shittiest country in SEA in terms of entertainment. So, first of all vaccinate yourself. After that research the history of the war on your own, try and find local people to guide you some more (not a commercial service) .

Consider going to Thailand.

lads
It took me a bit too long to buy my tickets to Brazil, now they are fucking expensive. Should I try millage brokers? The time for my flight is a bit flexible. I just need to get to Sao Paulo. Somehow.
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>>1128350
what's expensive?
You can always fly cheap to somewhere nearby then fly to Brazil
How much luggage do you have?
Any problem flying to Peru through spirit?? that's like 3-500 then another 400 to Brazil

Have you tried google flights?
What are you doing in Brazil? Job?
American?
What city are you going to?
>>
>>1128440
>What city are you going to?
>I just need to get to Sao Paulo
oh i'm retarded
where are you flying out of?
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>>1128440
>Any problem flying to Peru through spirit?? that's like 3-500 then another 400 to Brazil

oh I did check that. the prices ended up too similar. I actually need to fly i september.
I'm brazilian but studying in Seattle.
I heard about people taking some shady companies where you have terrible flight conditions but you eventually get there, but I can't find any. I checked student universe, but I also read many horror stories of bad management and people missing...
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I'm going to France via Turkish Airlines. On the way there, I have a 17 hour layover in Istanbul. I've already gotten my Turkish visa. In any case, I was hoping some of you had some tips on the fastest way to get to the Hagia Sophia from the Airport. My flight arrives at 4:40pm, and I read that the museum closes at 7pm, but you need to get there by 6 to go inside.
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Are you flying into IST or SAW?

If the latter, you have no chance.
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>>1127956I
I believe IST is Ataturk, right? If so, then that one
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>>1127904

Take the Istanbul Metro from Ataturk to Aksaray and then walk or take a taxi.

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is the only option for neets to kill themselves or is there a possibility to move to another country?

I don't have a job or money, but I really need to leave the police state i live in to function properly. Been thinking of jumping the border or overstaying at country of choice as a last resort but I don't think I'll do very well as an illegal immigrant
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>>1127805
>is the only option for neets to kill themselves
Probably.

> is there a possibility to move to another country?
For you, no.

You have no skills or education, you have nothing to offer another country. You're a useless parasite as it is. Why should another country want you?
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>>1127805
If you've no education, no diplomas, no work experience, it'll be very hard.
You can look for which country you're allowed to work in, or get a work visa.
If you can make do until you receive your first salary, you only need to get a job. That's it.
There are many jobs you can get without prior experience, or that nobody wants to do, but if you can't get the same jobs in your country, it's unlikely you'll get one abroad.
You'd better get any kind of job where you're...
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Do you live in a real police state, or are you a fellow American who thinks it's better overseasin some poor country? It's almost always worse).

Looking to journey from France to Spain, making these stops, plus Seville, and possibly to Lisbon, Portugal.

Poor American, looking for cheapest possible way. This trip is a few years off, but I want to know the pros and cons. Whether public transportation is cheaper than renting a car?
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Looks like an excellent route.
I'm sure it'd be a lot more expensive to rent a car just because of gas prices in Europe.
Check out Megabus fares and try to book in advance. Book trains in advance too if you take trains.
>>
check out:
- blablacar.fr
- voyages-sncf.com
- ouigo.com
- hitchwiki.org / hitchwiki.org/maps/
>>
Flixbus
they have a great price and cover all of France, practically most of Europe
but only Barcelona & Madrid for Spain.
check it out.

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New Japan General

As always, feel free to ask about:
>Traveling to Japan
>Living in Japan
>Teaching in Japan
>Joining the Yakuza
>Getting your weeb fantasies crushed

*Info on prostitution*
>http://rockitreports.com/category/sex-in-tokyo/
>http://erolin.net/

*Note about the JR Rail Pass*
Many people ask about whether or not the...
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>>
First post for Beppu! !!! :3
>>
Activity suggestions for a group of 3 travelling to Kyoto and Osaka? Activities within train distance of those areas are also acceptable. Already planning to go to Fushimi Inari Taisha shrine, Phiolsopher's walk, Nishiki food market, Kibune shrine + kawadoko dining, possibly Arashiyama. Haven't planned much for Osaka yet. Also, how is docomo hotspot coverage in Japan? They have a 3 week plan for a very cheap price for foreigners.
>>
>>1127237
Why is this posted? Should I go to beppu?

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Is travel as hedonistic a hobby as shopping or eating at expensive restaurants?

What exactly are we spending our time and money on when we travel?
10 replies and 1 images submitted. Click here to view.
>>
depends on how and why you travel

>only visiting all-inclusives, never leaving the resort, and only interaction with a local is giving them your drink order
yes
>traveling to enrich your cultural experience, increase your historical perspective, and challenge yourself physically and mentally
no
>>
>>1129375
You know, some people WORK for a living and in thier 3 weeks off a year they would rather be treated like a king than "challenged physically and mentally." I would hardly call that crowd hobbyists either, they typically hit up the same places every year.
>>
>>1129392
>implying i know nothing about working for a living
yeah, nah.

and it's fine if that's what someone enjoys. i wasn't saying it's automatically bad. it's just indulgent. you need me to post a trigger warning next time?

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I want a holiday to Norway to find myself and also find girls. Where do you recommend I go?
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>>
Does anyone know anything about Lofoten?
Please advise: >>1128598
>>
First find yourself, then the girls
>>
>>1129232

Excellent advice. I have a slight modification to add:

First find yourself, then the girls will find you.

i have 6 cans (6oz each) of bug spray in my checked bag. flying internationally to Belize tomorrow morning. will i be okay?
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>>1129171
>>
>>1129177
dont get it

Is this route crazy enough to be possible?
Warsaw-Kiev-Astana-Almaty-Urumqi-Xi'an-Beijing-Tianjin-Shanghai-Guangzhou-Nanning-Hanoi-Ho Chi Minh City-Phnom Penh-Bangkok-Hat Yai-Kuala Lumpur-Singapore-(ferries and overland trough Sumatra, Java)-Bali.
I want to do this all without any airplane flight, just bus, train, hitchhiking.
(sth like that on the map, I will choose the best possible option)
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>>
>>1129166
Make sure you do your research for the Thailand/Malaysia border region. Some of it is unstable and unsafe.
>>
>>1129166
You are aware you crossing basically a HUGE desert?
>>
>>1129192
Yes, I am, and I am aware that it will be one of the hardest parts of the journey.

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Does anybody know what SIM cards are the easiest to obtain in China?

I have to spend a while there for work in a couple months, and I'm going to buy a used unlocked GSM iPhone before I go. I'm planning on buying a prepaid SIM card and using one of their networks (probably China Unicom) while I'm there so I don't have to pay outrageous international rates. But I'm not sure what kind of iPhone to buy, 4s/5s/6s etc. The last thing I want is to get there, discover that all the stores are selling nano SIM cards and my iPhone takes a micro or whatever,...
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>>1128945
they're all the same. english is nonexistent, so bring a phone with some sort of translation ability. they all have the tools to cut it for you if it's not ther ight size.

I freaked out when I went too. but it's really not that bad. they kind of already know what you want.

if you're really afraid, they'll ALWAYS have this available at the airport in english if it's before closing hours (maybe around 10) for a slight mark up.

the first time I landed was a budget flight...
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>>1128955
Bless you, anonymous person, for posting such a quick & reassuring reply. I'll probably get a 5s, since my understanding is that the iPhone 4 etc is starting to not play nicely with the new versions of iOS and that's a headache I don't want to deal with, especially if it happens abroad.

I'm crash-coursing myself in Mandarin, but I very much doubt I'll be able to handle a conversation about anything remotely technological by the time I have to go over there, so I'm really glad...
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>>
>>1128960
you're welcome. I was freaking out about it too when I went, so I sympathize.

only place with english is liable to be the airport, even in beijing. the questions won't be much, they'll just ask for your passport, if you want internet, how much money you want to put on the prepaid. but if your tones are off they'll understand nothing ,lol.

good luck. china is super safe and for their reputation as super rude, I've actually found that they're mostly polite but aloof. it's...
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Hi guys, I am in Dallas right now and plan moving to Houston by car this Saturday morning and getting back on Sunday, I'm going to take a room for 1 night via airbnb. My primary goal is space center excursion, so if someone wants to join me, please welcome.
I am Russian male, 31 and I am in business trip in US for 2 weeks. I wouldn't say my English is fluent, so my secondary goal is to get some language practice with locals. In turn I could give you some set of Russian words if you will) I'm hoping this small travel is interesting for someone
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>>
>>1128838
Did you make a thread a while ago where you asked if you should bring gifts like vodka for your american business partners?
>>
>>1128838
Make sure to visit a strip club.

That highway that runs though Dallas has more strip clubs along the exits than I've ever seen anywhere else. Stripping must be Texas's main source of income. After washing off people's windshield's at street intersections with newspaper.
>>
No, I am not that guy who asked vodka. As for stripclubs, I have a lot ones in Moscow with much more pretty girls than in Texas. Texas girls actually are ugly


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