Which online video game takes the most individual skill?
My personal opinion
Skill isn't a metric that can be measured in a definitive way. Mechanically speaking, starcraft 2 may have a very high skill ceiling, but that doesn't necessarily speak to the strategy of it. While it is a strategy game, it is by no means the epitome of strategy.
So if we're defining individual skill as mechanical skill you may be correct, but to say individual skill as what it truly means (ones ability to do well individually) is far too vague to be answered.
This does not necessarily mean winning, but rather how well a single person can do.
OP should of said that if that's what they meant. The actual meaning of individual skill has nothing to do with a 1v1.
>huge skill floor
>every game is pillar humping and cc inside of cc
If you break down cc cooldown buttons into color buttons, wow pvp is a basic rhythm game with a line of sight mechanic.
I think starcraft requires more practice than any game out there. Could be wrong though, lots of rhythm games require months of work to become decent.
Don't know if constant practice directly correlates with skill but whatever
People here are confusing skill with strategy. If you have a solid concept of strategy then it takes no skill to deploy it for relatively static games like RTS games.
Fighting games require skill (strategy, split second timing, multiple input controls for varying move sets to be employed on the fly, knowing each opponent and how to counter their moves and abilities).
I am not saying that RTS doesn't involve a good amount of strategy, it is pure strategy, but skill? Not so much.
>thought faytan was just combo memorization
>Only true for the shitty games
>learn what option selects are and various game stick mods
The good fighting games are fucking intense. Others are pretty meh and just combo mashers like I thought originally, like
There's a bit of skill involved in RTS games, especially ones like starcraft where you often have to make decisions on the fly, have constant macro/micro going and kiting enemies with fast units
Though I do agree, starcraft is mostly about long term decision making and pre-planned strategy
Explain company of heros where its not "my unit is better than your's I win" but rather about ambushes, orientating your units, using the terran and concealment to hit your enemies
Starcraft looks like babbys first RTS in comparison
Quake (Quake World, Q3A, CPMA, QL, etc)
Most RTS games
Community Single Player
Calladoody (Yes, Calladoody 4 Promod too, faggots)
Most of these are dead bar Fighting Games, CS, and MOBA/ASSFAGGOTS/ARTS/AoS-Likes sadly.
Jealous starshitter because his game requires zero effort
When you say that, it reads as though you're implying that StarCraft II doesn't contain mechanics for ambushes, concealment or the requirement to orient your units correctly.
Moreover a lot of people seem to think skill is physical reflex only, and not a combination of learned factors such as the ability to assess your situation and that of your opponent in a split second and employ a 'strategy' to resolve it.
These sorts of threads frequently seem to contain people arguing that strategy games are either skillful or they aren't. I take it as fact that a skilled (learned and practiced) player will make mincemeat of a player merely executing a timing. I can use the example of masterful holds in SC2 which is a game I follow but I have no doubt that other strategy games have similar amazing comebacks that get talked about as well.
Why would they even bother using the word "micro"? Like, fucking seriously?
I've played this game, I played a hero that can use more than one unit.
Guess what happens? If the second unit moves more than 1000 units (measurement) away from your primary hero, it's INSTANTLY FUCKING TELEPORTED BACK
the game engine is so fucking limited that a unit can't roam freely, it pisses me off how many fucking people think this game requires even a little bit of mechanical ability
Look at Supreme commander
Try to menage exponentially growing army of tanks, navy, air, economy, factories, artillery on 10 islands at once and tell that it doesn't require skill
No matter how good you are you are nowhere near the skill ceiling
every KB+M game involves pointing and clicking to some degree you turdlord
any player over 13 years of age will realize that to be competent, you have to use a degree of strategy and understand more than pointan and shootan
Look at dis guy getting rekt in MP games.
i play lol and shit, but come on man... try to play invoker if you get to play dota2
cs is an obscenely slow game that boils down to memorizing spray patterns. it's commonly filled with actual mathackers even in the competitive scene. the fanbase is as rabid and vocal as the dota/lol audience about "skill" and how legitimate their game is as a "sport" and not a game.
it's awful in its most basic form.
Try writing chess professional on an office job resume, see how far that gets you.
>You can lose just because of one bad player
So can the enemy team. And since you're clearly an amazing god of everything, the enemy team is 25% more likely to get a bad player than your team is.
>dat obviously never playing CS or playing it and not being able to kill anybody withotu sprinting into their face with an smg and diving to the floor and killing them in two shots
Seriously, Get good. I mean that literally, not in the insulting way. Fucking get better at it.
And team tactics
Knowing what to do in situations
There is a shit ton man. Don't even deny it, the game requires lots of skill.
It's not about individual skill, it's a team game at its finest.
What's your point? You still cannot win by yourself. I play a lot of dota. No matter how good you are, bad teammates can drag you down and no amount of individual skill can win the game for you.
I'm the ember. A game like this is unwinnable, no matter how well YOU play
I loved Ragnarök Online, back in it's time. You can be a total scrub and still kick ass in PvP/GvG, but be completely outclassed by people with worse equipment and lower level, who know what they're doing.
They require lots of skill, the fuck you smokin'
Lots of skill too
Requires lots of skill too, even normal CoD has a high skill ceiling to be able to compete with the pros.
I'm only commenting on these since I've played them all competitively, rest I can't give enough opinion about. Except Quake, that shit is tough man.
>And team tactics
>Knowing what to do in situations
all of that is highly basic, and even in cs it's even simpler. it's very slow and poor gameplay.
that's not player skill, though
You can prefire wallbang too, just because you see someone and start shooting there doesn't mean that is every scenario.
A skilled player can kill lots of players before they even get a shot off.
>all these shit opinions pandering to their favorite game
Hands down the hardest game to learn.
>they actually consider this skill
Looks like it, seems like it detects if a marine is being targeted by a baneling and forces him to run away whilst the other marines fight.
I wonder if they could make a bot to counter this bot by having the banelings sporadically target everything every tick.
I wonder where War Thunders' Tanks would be on that chart. That shit takes a lot more skill than WoT.
>What would happen then?
Having the banelings target something else every millisecond would confuse the hell out of the marine bot. It would be forced to send a command to walk back for the marine even gets a chance to attack.
It's not that LoL doesn't require skill, it's just that DotA2 requires way more skill because the skill ceiling is 2x or 3x higher due to how the mechanics and meta work and don't limit you, like they do in LoL.
I think this is more precise.
Obviously just my opinion.
Because not being able to have more than 1 building in a control group made SC:BW so much easier.
>Make units in SC2
>Click 4 and hold AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>Make units in SC:BW
>Have to click independently on every baracks and build that unit
Not to mention that maximum unit selection in BW is 12 units and AI pathing is much dumber (Which makes it actually better because it increases overall skillcap - better players can move big armies faster etc.) than in SC2.
It should probably be higher since it's a very popular casual game.
No one gives a fuck about the tournaments though on the other hand.
Plus the community is terrible.
Don't stroke their ego Anon. Fighting game fags will always scream "THIS TAKES SKILL" even though the majority of every match is just pokes, turtling, and 10-hit max combos or "ultimate moves" where the game plays for you.
This annoys me to no end
>hurr -10 stamina -10 dexterity -2 movement
It's fucking hard to see out of some of those helmets though, where's my sight penalty?
>play Quake Live or whatever with /v/
>never played Quake before
>finish experimenting with this rocket jump shit and a couple of the other weapons as my whole team dies
>five dudes left vs. me
>grace of a gazelle with Pegasus wings as I annihilate the entire enemy team single-handedly
I really don't think a shooter can be allowed to be the most skillful game. It's merely reflexes and an understanding of the weapons and physics. Neither of those are particularly hard to learn.
As for ASSFAGGOTS, fuck everyone who thinks they're difficult.
SC2 is in a popularity decline as of right now (that doesn't matter since the position at the chart is at the highest peak)
DotA2 is still rising and I think we can all agree that it's bigger than before. The next TI will be even bigger (especially after that Valve document).
WoT is a piece of shit but it's very popular so I moved that up as well.
I have to agree with OP.
Also there is no need for nostalgia goggles for starcraft 1+expansion. The first game had limiting interface, not as much micro and nearly nonexistant frames&animation skills compared to sc2
>>play Quake Live or whatever with /v/
>>never played Quake before
>>finish experimenting with this rocket jump shit and a couple of the other weapons as my whole team dies
>>five dudes left vs. me
>>grace of a gazelle with Pegasus wings as I annihilate the entire enemy team single-handedly
>I really don't think a shooter can be allowed to be the most skillful game. It's merely reflexes and an understanding of the weapons and physics. Neither of those are particularly hard to learn.
>As for ASSFAGGOTS, fuck everyone who thinks they're difficult.
This guy knows what the hell he's talking about and I feel more or less the same way.
not anywhere close sorry dude
I dont play any ASSFAGGOTS, i have no bias
I can look at steam stats though and see dota2 with a peak player count of 827k today.
meanwhile I see an article from forbes that says LoL has 7.5million concurrent players
(article from january but its the best evidence i can find for LoL player count)
As a dota player I agree you're living a fantasy
Maybe when people start watching dota games during class or in the library instead of leauge. Until then we're like a popular knockoff, its the sad truth.
Yeah, everyone in the fucking world knows about LoL. It's probably the most popular online game as of right now aside from WoW.
I don't know why that is either. Everything in dota 2 is free as opposed to having to pay an upwards of $USD 70 for every LoL character. Do people just hate a challenge or what?
i think high level shooters like csgo and quake, have really high cap skill. SC2 have really high cap skill as well. Though bw had much higher skill cap.
ASSFAGGOTS players stfu, your game literally, control 1 unit all game rts.
Yeah, don't trust Riot honestly. They bot their own streams etc.
DotA 2 has 8 million unique players this month.
I didn't say DotA 2 is there, but its getting close. In terms of viewership of pro matches, it's almost equal.
Stay in the trench.
That question is inane. Skill could mean all sorts of things in this context. Are we talking pure reflex, applying game knowledge logically in strategy, or just knowing every little detail of the entire game? Even pure memorization is a "skill."
I don't know why I bother. A bunch of faggots re just going to go "SKILL IS WHAT YOU NEED TO PLAY THE GAME I SUBJECTIVELY ENJOY THE MOST WELL!" and start a shit fit with one another without even realizing there is a fundamental misunderstanding anyway.
Riot has never actually given any real evidence for any of their numbers that they have always spouted.
It's quite funny how they claim to have an insane amount of players, but once you go on 3rd party sites that track all LoL games played, they don't even measure up to what Riot has claimed. Very far from.
Yeah, honestly you can't compare games and their skill level. But I can say, from my own experience, which I find the game that is the hardest to master, which I tihnk is the point of these threads.