So is this cunt the first true clone in Kerfuffle so far, and do you think we'll get more characters like her that are similar enough to be a clone but a new character (eg Dark Pit)
Toon Link is Luigified, and Luigi is as much a Mario clone at this point as Rosalina is a Peach clone.
>hating on glorious lucina
I bet you wanted those Choir kids or that jrpg fagboy nobody knows instead.
>Toon Link is Luigified, and Luigi is as much a Mario clone at this point as Rosalina is a Peach clone.
TL still shares most of his normals and all his specials. Luigi also shares most of his normals with Mario. Peach and Rosalina are completely different characters.
So far she shares all the same moves as Marth, just like a Melee clone.
I think it's reasonable to assume Lucina will be the only such clone. They have male and female Villager, WFT, Robin, and Miis. It's reasonable to include Girl Marth.
Theoretically they could do it with Pac-Man, but I don't see it happening since he's third party.
>Toon Link is Luigified, and Luigi is as much a Mario clone at this point as Rosalina is a Peach clone.
Ow, my head can't deal with the sheer level of stupidity.
How can you say their clones, when every character now has 12 moves?
Sure some would be a given, like the Links have bombs, bows, etc. But even then, they could be different. Say Toon Link and regular Link have a Fire Arrow move swap. Regular Links causes and explosion, causing large damage while the arrow travels slowly. Toon Link could have a quicker Fire Arrow, dealing small damage, but "burning" the enemy and doing small percentages of damage at a time.
Just stuff like that, having variations in clones that fit the character is what sets them apart. Toon Link is smaller, so while the opponent is burned, he can run up and deal damage on them because he's quicker than Link. Link is slower, and focuses more on heavy damage, so amply, he would have a powerful projectile.
Every fucking fighting game in existence has clones. You'd know this if you had ever played any besides Smash. The Smash fanbase is the only one that complains about them. Everyone else knows that the devs have deadlines to meet, and it's a way to add characters that otherwise wouldn't have made it into the game.
Theyre still clones bro. They dont have to be identical. When you take one character, and alter them to make a new one, it's still an altered version of that character. Even giving them a few unique moves and animations doesnt change that. Maybe there needs to be another term for it, but it still falls in line with what people mean when they say clone.
theyre like the equivalent of Sonic recolor OC sprites.
Up b takes her at more of an angle, different
n air hits twice and back once, different
sword has different properties
and we don't know if the other specials have diferent properties or not yet
i'm not going to analyze every move but there's two already
youre taking something existing, giving it a new coat of paint and altering things to make something new. its not original, its a tweaked version of something existing. theres a reason I specified sonic oc SPRITES.
>Robin has an original moveset that looks interesting and fun
>the Cap is back
>Lucina got in without wasting much time and resources
How was yesterday anything but fucking amazing?
This has been bugging me actually. What if Lucina's specials ARE different, but she can use Marth's through moveset customization? Sakurai is on full troll-mode for kerfluffle. It seems like he'd try to rile everyone up about a clone.
The funny thing is, Lucina in Smash 4 is actually accurate lore wise. They mention that she fights similar to Marth. She's literally just Female Marth.
That's why I didn't want Lucina in because there was no way she wouldn't end up being a clone.
Chrom at least had the potential of being an in-between of Ike and Marth.
Theres a difference between crying over a scene in a movie, because in that movie, youre invested in that world, and its within that world you see that shit happen. but when a real person calls a fictional character a cunt, its COMPLETELY different, and not worth being upset over.
I can't fucking wait to destroy all you little whiney bitches with girl Marth. Shit's gonna be so good
Don't know enough about Lucina yet to say she's 100% the same, that's a retarded unfounded statement. The likelihood is that she is as different as Falco is from Fox. By the looks of what we could see, she seems faster and therefore better than Marth.
That's all you can really say at this point, we're yet to see her fully in action. Ignore retards screaming she's exactly the same, we don't know that yet so its just shitposting.
I really don't understand the hate for clones. They probably take up barely any development time, and they're a way to include some fan-favorite characters who otherwise wouldn't have been included.
That being said, I could have lived without Lucina. 3 Fire Emblem characters is more than enough.
The only clone that really bothers me is Ganondorf, just because he has so many potential moves from the Zelda games.
Do you know anything about the character? have you seen her vid? it would be stupid to assume she ISNT a clone. In fact, it would almost be stupid if they made her 100% original, given the character is masquerading as Marth, she needs to move like the character she is pretending to be.
>better than Marth
I'd disagree, despite it being too early to tell. Tipper hits with Marth are essential for early kills. Something that Samurai said has been removed from her abilities.
>Don't know enough about Lucina yet to say she's 100% the same, that's a retarded unfounded statement.
They dont have to be the exact same to be clones, its not retarded at all.
>The likelihood is that she is as different as Falco is from Fox. By the looks of what we could see, she seems faster and therefore better than Marth.
Falco was still a clone. just like Roy was a clone, and kid link and Luigi and Pichu and so on.
It makes perfect sense. in the context of the movie, the character being insulted hears it. they react to it. and you can empathise because you actually see them feel the effects of what someone does to them.
but that doesnt happen if a real person calls a fictional character a name. Lucina isnt real. she cant have her feelings hurt by a real person calling her a cunt. theyre not comparable, and its stupid to think its on the same level, and its stupid to get upset about. youre making yourself look crazy.
I just came to the realization that this 'stance' is stupid as fuck
who the fuck holds a sword like this I could just smack it out of her hands for being a dumb bitch
I will happily accept female Ike.
They never really said that
They said the canned response that every developer has on the subject of sequels to other IPs
Because they were asked by a journalist in the middle of showing the Steampunk thing
At least the clones in Brawl were very, very Luigi-fied. So far she looks like she has the exact same moveset in Marth with different properties.
This and why the fuck does the sword have a huge gaping hole near the hilt
Kind of is. It's still funny that Battalion Wars is still called Famicom Wars
>who the fuck holds a sword like this I could just smack it out of her hands for being a dumb bitch
Well the Cap did just that.
wait what, there were people who though Marth was a difficult character to use? The tip was what made him so easy to do well with. At least characters like Jigglypuff demanded a lot of skill to be good with.
>Toon Link is Luigified, and Luigi is as much a Mario clone at this point as Rosalina is a Peach clone.
Cool way to rationalize your hate.
You have no proof lucina is more of a clone than any of those you mentioned. SPECIALLY toon link
Supreme Electra complex.
Imma post the whole conversation cause I'm not playing waifu defense.
FGC also complains about clones as well.
Ryu Ken and Akuma is not so bad, because you play then differently, especially in recent incarnations. Sakura also plays in her own way. Gouken purposely changes the way the moves work, like vertical hurricane kicks, and horizontal drangon punches.Dan is a joke character. Sean as well.
But then you start getting stuff like Evil Ryu, and Oni, releasing at the same time. When everyone I listed here except for Sean is on one game, people get pissed off because of more deserving slots being taken up.
Point is, Lucina has her purpose. There are people that want Roy back, and it seems that Lucina is gonna fill that role. I assume she's gonna have the middle of the blade does more damage gimmick that Roy had. I'm sure Marth still has his tip of the blade gimmick. He still had it in Brawl.
also, smash is a fighter? lel
maybe in smash 6
>I assume she's gonna have the middle of the blade does more damage gimmick that Roy had. I'm sure Marth still has his tip of the blade gimmick
Nah, Sakurai said on Miiverse that she'll have no sweetspot on her blade, the whole thing just does consistant damage. Marth though, yeah, is confirmed to still do more damage near the tip
>dat hyper generic design
Sami all the way
The only clone i'm against is ganondorf, he deserves his own unique moveset
they could give the old ganondorf moveset to black shadow
>Ryu Ken and Akuma is not so bad, because you play then differently, especially in recent incarnations. Sakura also plays in her own way. Gouken purposely changes the way the moves work, like vertical hurricane kicks, and horizontal drangon punches.Dan is a joke character. Sean as well.
All clones in Brawl played differently. I don't know to much about Melee clones but I know Falco, Roy, and Ganondorf palyed very differently from the "originals"
>You will never beat the shit out of Toon Link with Andy's dual wrenches
Ganondorf is a different, but still familiar, case.
It's like Toon Link not having a different moveset despite Phantom Hourglass, Wind Waker and Spirit Tracks or some other games existing.
Ganondorf has more than enough games for him to have his own moveset but instead he's a Falcon Clone, which sounds even lazier than making a Bird clone of a vulpine
pichu wasn't relevant enough for people to care, dr. mario played like a heavier hitting mario and his forward air was more important for getting kills if i recall correctly
with lucina, her attacks are probably going to be doing more damage than a non sweetspotted marth attack, though marth will probably be better if only because good marth players can land tip very consistently
This. Ever since Melee it bugged me that Ganon copies Capn' Falcon. Give that moveset to Black Shadow, and give Ganon his own shit.Give him some sword play, magic balls that can be deflected back and forth, SOMETHING ganon like.
Actually, to put it into MAXIMUM perspective:
The second most iconic Nintendo villain is a clone of a character who existed to show off Mode 7, and whose moveset itself is just the sloppy leftovers of the game BEFORE it was Smash Bros
No I have no problem with her being a full out clone. I was just responding to him saying
>enough differences to make her require a slot of herself
Had me thinking if she was or not.
>Villains Trailer in the next reveal
>Falcon in the next trailer
>he rushes at Ganondorf
>Black Shadow interrupts with his Shadow Punch
>trailer shows Black Shadow's cloneness and Ganondorf's ENTIRELY NEW MOVESET
He was also the only case of two reps from the same game til the zues dlc. Its funny how people looked at PSAS roster and said "haha, look at how few franchises Sony has" and then you actually compare the roster to Brawl and remove all cases of clones and different reps for the same franchises.
Its not too shabby considering Smash Bros was three games in at that point.
fixed it. doesnt change the final number though.
his running animation amused the fuck out of me in brawl. He looked so stubby.
You know, anon. Sometimes, rival characters are better than villains. With rivals, not only do you have a character that antagonizes the main character, you prevent presenting a character that can cause a massive spoiler
Also, Mother 3 Masked Man when?
Also, boku no spoonfeeding
go back and play it, he's nothing like marth aside from having down b as a counter, all his moves are original and unique, unless you want to say that every character with down b as a counter then i guess lucario and greninja are marth clones
it's like saying peach and mario are clones because they're from the same franchise
This is what I wanted:everyone is Luigified(like two moves are copied max and no same final smash), no trio of similar movesets(Starfox became the shoto clones for gods sake), and unique ganondorf.
At this point, toon link + Lucina has has made all my fears likely. God dammit.
why is her taste in clothes so cute?
the challenge DLC roster rescue
>Many newer and/or less knowledgeable players tend to assume Fox and Wolf are semi-clones, or even full clones, due to their special moves and Final Smash being similar (if not identical) in name and mostly identical in operation. However, closer inspection of their full movesets shows that even calling them semi-clones is difficult to rationalize, as the characters' physics are radically different, none of their standard attacks are similar, and even their similarly named special moves aren't exactly cloned moves (their neutral and up specials both function, animate, and look differently).
Alright fixed again. this accurate now?
Anon, you think people hate clones in general on a case by case basis?
more people need to play the challenge DLC maps
>Characters can get movesets done out of a scratch
>Clones are perfectly acceptable
>Characters who appeared in single game can get in
>Waluigi was just over the line
yes if you're in a cutscene/support or characters talking to each other in battle.
Except custom is banned online, and who's to say clones don't have the same customs anyway.
man there are surprisingly very few good fanart of Lucina and Robin after the announcement.
Then again it's probably because they're too busy flocking about how amazing Captain Falcon is. Surprised Pixiv didn't draw a lot on the case.
Sakurai got everyone TOLD
next up is ridley and I don't even like the guy
seeing the tears of all of them TOOBIGfags is going to be so goddamn cash
Okay I don't know if you guys are just being dumb on purpose but Toon Link's move properties and hitboxes are very different from Link's. You can't play the two characters the same way. Lucina just doesn't have the tip and is slightly shorter, otherwise identical. You can switch back and forth and not have to change up the way you play.
no you can make Female Robin marry any male unit character and Male Robin marry any female unit character. People just like making Female Robin marry Chrom because there are a couple of subtle story changes and they like having Lucina as their daughter.
Her mother can be multiple people.
For example in my game her mother is Sully.
It's based on whoever has the highest support with Chrom; he marries them and they have lucina and also a 2nd child who's Lucina's sister or brother.
I don't like Lucas and I'm glad we have no sign of him returning, but it's okay to cut him but make a Marth clone for the tourneyfags? When are we gonna get a classic Nintendo rep already? And all these women. The only Nintendo males we've gotten is Little Mac and villager
At the end of Melee's development Sakurai had the choice between 6 clones or one original character, Dedede. This means it takes roughly 6 clone characters to make the development time of one new character.
Lucina didn't steal anyone's slot. She's pointless and shouldn't be in Smash, but she does little to no harm.
>fire emblem fags acting smarmy
>pretending your c-grade franchise even mattered before yesterday
These are the delusional faggots Sakurai is marketing the game to: Waifufags.
So Sakurai didn't mention it but I'm guessing Lucina's sword is less strong than Marth's tip, but stronger than the rest of Marth's sword. There's no way she has tip power all over, that would make Marth useless.
I don't even like Lucina. I just figure that there might be more to her than we've seen.
Just chill and wait till she's in a demo or something anon. We'll get to see how different she is and if Falcon is back to his prime. It's all good.
This is why Smash faggots are far and away the worst fanbase in gaming, they're too attention seeking to ever use existing threads. They demand their opinion is seen by as many as possible and do not care about order or who it inconveniences.
This kind of selfishness should be expected from a group that are by their nature street fighter rejects trying to create some sort of faux competitive environment for a childrens party game that by its nature has weak opposition for them to triumph over and feel important and skilled.
There should never be waifu posting
Get out waifufag
Because male Robin is a boring stick in the mud, and without the FeMU to bounce jokes off of Lucina falls kinda flat too. She has some decent supports with the other future kids though.
because they play the game through once and never tried looking at their other support conversations. They were supposed to be the generic main hero characters anyway.
They only judged them through the main story.
>mfw you're actually right
Awakening wasn't that good of a game, wasn't it?
But that's dumb. Lucina's great even only through the main story. Fuck, the cutscene where she confesses she's Chrom's daughter to him and that one where she tells about that time that dragon was about to kill her that ends with her shrieking in terror... fuck, both make me cry each time they happen.
I could watch them right now and tear up again.
Actually I'll just do that.
japdub best dub
I always loved it when FeMU
goes all grima and evil shit. Something about it just gets me on
All I'm hoping for is that Ganondorf gets a moveset revamp.
I really want to like him, but he's just a far worse Falcon.
>get all the women to A rank with FeMu
>will never be able to get that S rank
I especially love the part where FeMU just telekenisis Tiki's sleep/dream
I never played Fire Emblem, who are those guys?
The spellsword one and this girl that is literally Marth with longer hair. And I didn't understand the final part of the trailer where you can change genders.
Due to romancing, there's actually a lot that are unique. Male Robin's unique ones tend to not be as good as female Robin's.
Male Morgan a shit though. I'm gunning for Tiki in my hard mode playthrough though, and I hear female Morgan is a lot more entertaining a character.
Clog up smash bros with what? It's had clones since melee, and due to height/speed differences she's already more different than Dr. Mario. She seems closer to young link to Marth's link than a lot of people seem to be implying.
Lucina's the daughter of the second main character of FE13. That guy is a descendant of Marth. Lucina spends the first quarter of the game pretending to be Marth with a mask on.
The changing gender thing is about how the player character is customisable and can be male or female
Robin is the "my unit" character in FE:A, and thus you can select the gender. Lucina is a waifu pandering rule 63 Marth who is only popular because she's riding on Marth's fame.
>yfw some tourneyfags will play as Lucina instead of Marth
>yfw Mew2King playing as Lucina
I can't fucking wait
I love to see how roy is now the black sheep of the FE family
God now that you've shown Yarne I initially thought he was gonna be bad ass cause of his mom, but he was 90% whiny 24/7 complaining about how he's the last of his race blablabla must protect by being a god damn coward
>being a clone apologist because your waifu got confirmed
Can't you stop being a faggot for 2 seconds and want some new and interesting characters outside of the blue-haired sword brigade?
It is. As well as all stages and shit. Thankfully the wii u version will have specific modes that will be exclusive to that one, and it'll still mean we won't uncover ALL musics since the 3DS version only has 2 musics per stage.
Look, I played Sony Smash, and I can tell you it was horrid, Sony just doens't have any memorable characters anymore. The game had no charm at all, it felt like a chinese bootleg of something really great. The game overall was boring as hell.
"It has the spark of something that could be good", of course it has, it's fucking smash brothers, but what makes it good is the variety of known characters, or how interesting characters you don't know about are. I give you Parappa, cool. But Fat Princess? Generic bald guy 1, 2 and 3? Fucking Donte? It's just really bland. The atmosphere, everything about that game is just bland. And by making a new game is the same as a chinese compny making bootleg+ may be better, but come on.
Honestly you seem to think I care as much as you do. I'm excited for Robin, but don't see why people are so up in arms about Lucina. We knew from the damn start Sakurai was lying when he said he was gonna get rid of clones.
This is the best thing to happen to Smash 4.
She definitely is. According to impressions from E3/smashfest, Marth has been nerfed to hell. His aerials give him too much landing lag, and his dancing blade attacks don't even link into each other properly.
In the trailer, we see Lucina's aerial lag is much faster, and dancing blade is faster, so it actually combos. She doesn't even need to worry about spacing as much according to Sakurai since there is no tipper. You can bet that Lucy is taking Marth's place in the high tiers.
I guess Sakurai preferred a Marth clone to an Ike clone because Lucina is female.
>mfw Ganondorf is the Ike clone
This is the first Smash in which there are practically no clones besides Toon Link and Lucina.
And fyi, Falcofags , he's not going to be in Smash 4 so go back to playing your boring clonefest that is Melee
>Ganondorf as an Ike clone
Yes please, enough with the falcon shit.
Man It feels sweet to be a robinfag
I remember what people told me before
>Chrom is the real protagonist
>Robin would never get in before chrom
>Robin is a faceless mary sue
And mand the direct kicked them hard, and Lucina finished them pretty sweet.
>You will never fuck cosplayed lucine with eye contacts
Star Fox is getting 1 more rep minimum with the new game coming out. I'd guess 2, they need to keep the franchise in everyone's heads.
There could be anywhere between 5-8 slots once you go down the list of possibles and glaring exclusions, then add in 1 or 2 secret characters.
I still need to make a physical poster for this
We should wonder about one specific thing, since there are 4 reps for Fire Emblem, 2 of them from Awakening
it means there will be FE items in smash, if not very likely FE:A items.
Which ones would they choose ? Tomes ? Axes ? Unicorns ?
Dude, Roy was always a shitty Lord with a shitty personality. If it wasn't for Melee, no one would give a fuck about him. He's even worse than Eliwood.
Megaman looks so smooth and sexy in that picture
I just wanna touch his chest and hug his hips
Jesus Christ the Awakening artist does amazing work.
What's more incredibly is that the CG cutscenes emulate the style of the art almost perfectly for once.
Look at that fucking Peach.
Everyone from 64 is returning. That's already 2. Ness, Jigglypuff, and G&W all have slots, G&W is almost guaranteed to be a secret character. Lucas is a maybe, but not because of the leak. It would be more surprising for Falco to not make it in than for Falco and another Star Fox rep to make it in.
That's already 4-5 without even touching fringe possibilities like K. Rool or new franchises.
Maybe 4-5 reveals before launch, but there could be a lot more characters.
Nah, I meant no Ephraim in Smash. He would be a much more interesting fighter than the others. Sigurd would be cool too.
I'm personally a fan of Sugimori's Peach. Goddamn.
Kozaki Yusuke is amazing in his illustrations.
I loved the Punch Out parody
Fox in rosalina's poster looked so derpy
Loved Wii fit trainer's poster.
Animal Crossing was alright
Palutena's imo looked like really bad amateur anime artwork unforuntately
Pacman's was nice
I didn't like Ken Sugimori's art for some reason.
Ah, I see, and I agree. If I had my personal choice of any Lord for Kerfuffle, I'd pick Ephraim or Hector over Lucina anyday. Axe and especially Spear user would be pretty interesting. Sigurd with his horse involved somehow would be pretty cool too.
Ah well, at least Robin uses magic so it's not Swords galor on the FE-front.
Hopefully having no sour spot means that Luciana will have a completely different playstyle than Marth. It's interesting to note that Marth was the first character they ported from melee to brawl if I remember correctly.
>Marth was bad in a build of the game that was so beta they worried it would crash if played
More likely, they simply reduced landing lag from aerials or added L cancelling back.
Just go ahead and leave, faggot.
>Fire Emblem getting this much recognition in Smash
I did not see this coming. I expected other Wii/DS and a few retro to be thrown in, even an extra DK character.
so many female artists just love gay robin