>Captain Falcon return
>hype off the scales
>overshadowed by Mega Man hype
>lol literally who wasted slot Peach Clone Japan dicksucking disappointment of the year weeabshit fanservice
The question being, why does /v/ hate new characters in Smash? All the reveals that feature new characters from the last couple years have resulted in complaining and hatethreads whereas the old characters got hypethreads and love. Why is /v/ so nostalgiafag?
I love all the newcomers
/v/ is just full of assholes that hate everything
It's easy to complain about shit from games you haven't played. Most of /v/ stopped playing games long ago. I kinda wonder how many of the ones complaining were ever actually planning on playing Smash anyways.
Personally I'm happy with everyone except Greninja. Don't particularly care for starter favoritism, I thought Pokemon Trainer was better in terms of throwing in starters for a rep since he was balanced and avoided pissing off anyone by providing all three from one region in a single go.
most of /v/ is just pc fags who want a game to be on pc so they can find a torrent of it later then make the claim "i'm just trying before i'm buying!!", play the game for a long time and then just let it sit on their external drive claiming they didn't like it, but they won't delete it because "i might pick it up back again later to give it a second try before i buy"
I'm not fond of the inclusion of Lucina, because I think she's uninteresting in Awakening (it must be a family trait, her father is uninteresting as well) and her being a Marth clone doesn't help that at all.
Don't have (big) problems with the other newcomers.
>>The question being, why does /v/ hate new characters in Smash?
I've explained it so many times I honestly don't feel like doing it again.
tl;dr the new additions are weak. Either they give representation to series that already have it or the new IPs they represent aren't anything exceptional, I mean Wii Fit? Fucking really? There are a few good ones, like Little Mac and Mega Man and some like Villager I don't care for but am not upset over, but the rest are awful.
I just don't want another fucking blue sword wielding androgynous faggot. They could've added to actually interesting characters to the roster but instead we get blue sword bitch and self insert mage faggot.
Enjoying new characters means enjoying new games, and you can't have that on /v/.
Personally I love all of them except the FE characters because I haven't played their games. I don't spray shit everywhere over it, though.
That's not what I was getting at.
What I mean was that Mario already had all of its main characters represented, and Rosalina felt kind of unnecessary. Kid Icarus has only three installments yet gets two reps. Fire Emblem has FOUR, and one of those is a clone. I don't even know how many Pokemon will wind up having.
It's not a matter of "series I didn't care much for got another rep, that's the issue". I don't really care much for Donkey Kong, but I wouldn't object if it got K. Rool or a Diddy/Dixie tag team, because DK is a huge franchise and it only has two reps. I wouldn't object if Wario got another rep, it sorely needs one because he has two series about him and there's only one character. This makes Sakura's decision to pad out already well represented series look even more ridiculous.
>Why is /v/ so nostalgiafag?
It's not all of /v/, it's mainly NintendoGAF that has such a hard-on towards all this nostalgia pandering from Nintendo.
That's what most devoted Nintendo fans are like.
It's actually for people who are concerned that development time and resources have een spent implementing one character when they could have been spent implementing another.
The problem is that you're taking it more seriously than it was ever meant to be taken. Smash was never really about representing IPs because they "deserve" it or something fucking dumb like that. At its core, it's always been treated as a fun multiplayer game with a lot of Nintendo characters in it.
You begin to understand roster choices once you look at them individually rather than thinking of how they work as a collective other characters from the same franchise as them.
Oh, Lucina? Popular chick from a popular game in the series, easy enough to work into a Marth clone, doesn't take much time and it'd make her fans happy, so we can do that. Palutena? People seemed to really like her in Uprising, and Uprising itself was pretty well liked. Rosalina? She's a fairly recent Mario character and a popular one as well, and she's relevant in the 3D Mario games on the Wii and the one they made for the Wii U, so why not? WFT? Nobody would expect that, and everyone knows what Wii Fit is, so they'd all probably get a good laugh out of it.
And all of them bar Lucina got pretty unique movesets in to justify having them around.
>That's not what I was getting at.
That's the opposite side of what you're getting at. People who don't understand when their series has adequate representation and demand more for it.
>Palutena? People seemed to really like her in Uprising, and Uprising itself was pretty well liked.
More like she's Sakurai's waifu, and that's why he shows so much positive bias towards her, with her getting in despite only three installments and having four fucking movesets for no good reason.
It's true KIU sold a million, but then again there have been plenty of other Nintendo games that have done better than that from series already in SSB yet don't get another rep. Like Warioware: Smooth Mooves and Metroid Prime, which are a lot more popular than Kid Icarus and their characters arguably more beloved. Where are their other reps? How can you try to pretend there isn't some other force, like Sakurai's dick, at play?
I'm tired and my reading comprehension is giving out on me.
>You begin to understand roster choices once you look at them individually rather than thinking of how they work as a collective other characters from the same franchise as them.
Not really, it's very easy to understand them by franchise:
Mario: Nintendo's mascot, lots of reps.
Fire Emblem: Series Nintendo has been trying to push for twenty years, always been advertised in Smash since Melee, recent success, turn up the marketing to eleven.
Zelda: One of Nintendo's most popular franchises, lots of reps.
Donkey Kong: Popular, but a Western franchise now, two reps.
Star Fox: Meme status and cult following still after not having a game in years, three reps since they're easy to clone.
Because the characters added aren't the ones they themselves want. Most people want Ninty to do something crazy and add in lesser-known characters instead of Flavor of the Month games.
Little Mac is by far my favorite addition, but I like all the new characters except for Greninja.
>don't play recent Nintendo games
>complain when Sakurai adds recent characters
Sakurai developed Uprising with Smash in mind. It's pretty obvious with how some gameplay elements even reference Smash when talked about by the characters. I think it's fair to say that he at least designed several elements of Uprising with the intention of incorporating them into Smash later down the line. I mean, he could've easily included those elements as their own unique smash bros items, sorta like the bumper if we were talking in terms of items, but there's more value to it if it's relatable to a game that a decent amount of people played.
That's another way to look at it. Still, my point is that it's not "This franchise DESERVES this number of reps" because that'd be the best way for the devs to fuck themselves over when making the roster. Creating an artificial limit on what they can not and will not benefit them in any way whatsoever.
The game is going to be fun as fuck and definitely more competitive and fair than Brawl.
I got fucked over SO HARD by tripping in a situation that one would think is a worst-case-scenario made up by people who hate tripping.
It really happens and it can really kill you.
You want to walk forward and dodge? Nah, just slip right into their smash attack.
To be fair, a lot of the additions from "recent Nintendo games" were sorry.
Robin I dislike as a character but have no problem with his inclusion in SSB. Rosalina, however, was uncalled for and unnecessary seeing how Mario already has its main characters represented, and she's only been in two main series games. Lucina's a clone, and worse than Roy because at least he had fire. Wii Fit Trainer is from something that counts as a video game but it's really just a glorified exercise regimen with minigames.
What's your point?
That still doesn't excuse giving Palutena four entire movesets.
>but there's more value to it if it's relatable to a game that a decent amount of people played.
Okay where's my Metroid Prime character? These mental gymnastics you're doing to avoid admitting Sakurai shows favoritism towards Palutena don't add up.
I have actually NEVER once lost a match due to tripping, or tripped at a crucial moment, and I played hundreds of hours of Brawl.
It's still a shit mechanic and should go away, though.
I really hate this mentality that if you don't like the newcomers, you must hate everything. It's like you can't handle dissenting opinions, it's fanboyism and reminds me of something I'd see on a certain other forum were the subject something else. I'm not saying you have to hate them too, you can like them, they look fun to play as but can you really not see why some people might dislike them without insulting them or their ability to enjoy things?
When is Angel going to get a chance to blow up the competition?
This was on All-Star Mode against the Ice Climbers, so it was asking for a bad situation.
I slipped playing Pikachu and went all the way across the ice (because he's fast) into a smash attack from both of them. Fucked me over hard.
What bothers me most is that people seem to care more about the character that gets in rather than how they would play.
I didn't know who the fuck Robin was before he was announced, but he looks really fun to play. I'll definitely try him.
I understand the frustration with Lucina, though.
>I really hate this mentality that if you don't like the newcomers, you must hate everything
It's a way of avoiding discussion.
>Character is a shit addition because blah blah blah
>/V/ HATES EVERYTHING FUCKING RIDLEYFAGS
It allows them to divert things away from actual reasoning by deeming everything you say invalid by accusation.
Rosalina was in 3 out of the 4 main series games since her debut though.
Galaxy, Galaxy 2, 3D World
Only one she wasn't in was 3D Land.
And why can't Mario have more than its most main characters anyways? It's Nintendo's biggest franchise and one of the largest moneymakers. If you ask me, I think it deserves to get another character who represents the newer games, and I was personally hoping for something like that in Brawl, something along the lines of Bowser Jr. perhaps.
NSMB isn't made by the main Mario team so I don't think that really even counts.
And I'm pretty sure Lucina is in to appease Roy fans since they're actually somewhat major from what I've heard, at least in Japan among the Melee fanbase. She also helps in appeasing to Awakening fans too.
Your complaint on WFT isn't even really a complaint since it doesn't say what's wrong with her exactly.
>That still doesn't excuse giving Palutena four entire movesets.
We still don't know what those other moves are actually like though. Wait to see what they did with her before complaining.
>Okay where's my Metroid Prime character? These mental gymnastics you're doing to avoid admitting Sakurai shows favoritism towards Palutena don't add up.
What Metroid Prime character could they possibly add besides Dark Samus?
I hope to fuck when Robin finishes his final smash he says "Now that's strategy" in the most smug fucking way
i love every single newcomer including lucina, i'm probably gonna main her too
It's more like the reasoning being shit half the time over anything else.
A character being "deserving" or not is a horrible reason to dislike someone because none of us can give any objective reason for that beyond Mario or Link or Pikachu being deserving, and it'll always lead to complaints because everyone thinks that's how the game devs think or should think.
Thinking "waste of a slot" is horrible because it implies one character is taking away a position that another character could've taken. If Ridley or K. Rool haven't gotten in by now, I'm pretty fucking sure it's because they never intended to put them in at all, not because WFT or Miis took their spot or something dumb like that.
>What bothers me most is that people seem to care more about the character that gets in rather than how they would play.
I see what you're saying, but also consider that unless they're a clone, which is an entire other issue altogether, everyone will play differently. Not anything especially special. And some people would like to see more variety in reps. Literally something like 30%+ of the roster comes from only three IPs. SSB is supposed to be about a number of Nintendo franchises coming together, you can't see why someone wouldn't want something from other IPs? And not almost strictly casual stuff like Wii Fit as far as Nintendo's own IPs are concerned.
It really gets me 10/10 mad. The problem isn't they like a newcomer I don't, it's that they're not willing to understand why someone could have a different opinion and they throw logic out the window. It's a circlejerk, that's what it is.
Well, OP. The faggots aside, Lucinia is apparently a direct clone of Marth, so I'm pretty pissed that this game that was supposed to have no more clones keeps finding more.
As for Robin, I'm fucking hyped. All I wanted was a fire emblem character who didn't only use a sword. I would prefer a full mage to a tactician, but hey, at least they're getting close.
And especially on topic of who is more "deserving", these people generally want obscure as hell characters that are no more or less deserving than the ones that got in. It comes across as just getting upset for the sake of complaining.
>Galaxy, Galaxy 2, 3D World
She was only a cameo in Galaxy 2, that hardly counts. By that logic, we should add Bandanna Dee as a fourth Kirby character because he showed up in SSU, RTDL, and cameod in Triple Deluxe.
>If you ask me, I think it deserves to get another character who represents the newer games
That makes sense I guess, but I wouldn't prioritize it over other new reps from underrepresented series/series not in at all, and certainly not from a character who has only really been in two main series games.
>She also helps in appeasing to Awakening fans too.
Robin didn't do that?
>We still don't know what those other moves are actually like though. Wait to see what they did with her before complaining.
The point isn't what they do, it's that she has four entire movesets for literally no reason other than Sakurai likes her. Why not give them to characters like Mega Man, who would make a lot more sense with a full custom moveset, or add a newcomer who would fit more smoothly with it?
>What Metroid Prime character could they possibly add besides Dark Samus?
Dark Samus. Don't give me that she would be a clone, the assist trophy uses moves that Samus doesn't in Kerfuffle, not to mention that there's no excuse when we have characters like Lucina in.
Not true. I didn't object to characters who made sense in that they represented IPs that needed representation in Brawl. I had no problem with MK or Dedede, because Kirby had 18 games and only one rep, and it added main characters who showed up in a good number of the games to change that; Dedede had been in seventeen. Had no problem with adding Diddy Kong even though I'm not into DK because DK is a huge series and it only had one rep before. I have no problem with Robin and he's from the most popular game in the series.
I DO have a problem when half the game's newcomers are to franchises that already have plenty of reps. It's not a matter of "character from obscure franchise didn't make it in, everyone else sucks".
Probably because "deserving" has no real place in Smash outside of the A+ to B list franchises and even then a better term would be "warrant".
Mario warrants reps.
Pokemon warrants reps
Donkey Kong warrants reps.
Zelda warrants reps.
Pokemon Warrants reps.
Even the Wii series warrants reps.
Outside of that it gets into more complicated territory that certainly doesn't encompass anything close to "deserving".
>She was only a cameo in Galaxy 2, that hardly counts. By that logic, we should add Bandanna Dee as a fourth Kirby character because he showed up in SSU, RTDL, and cameod in Triple Deluxe.
She was a bit more than a cameo though. She was also part of the Super Guide system of the game (in the form of a Cosmic Spirit but it's very much her), so she'd appear before players who were having trouble, which is logical since people consider Galaxy 2 to be one of the harder Mario games.
>That makes sense I guess, but I wouldn't prioritize it over other new reps from underrepresented series/series not in at all, and certainly not from a character who has only really been in two main series games.
That's fine if you think like that, but what I wanted to get across there is that the mindset Sakurai has would be based on a lot of factors besides that. Who knows, maybe he wanted someone who was more relevant in the modern age? Maybe he knows more about how Nintendo will use Rosalina than we do? I doubt the number of appearances really matters though. Sheik only had and still only has Ocarina of Time to this day and she's still around. I could make the comparison that both OoT and SMG1 and 2 are the highest rated Nintendo games ever so both characters could be in for that.
>Robin didn't do that?
He did, but they probably threw Lucina in too since she wouldn't take up much resources and Awakening did pretty much save the series from dying.
>so I'm pretty pissed that this game that was supposed to have no more clones keeps finding more.
Did Sakurai say this game wasn't going to have any clones? If he did he wouldn't have put Toon Link back in.
>The point isn't what they do, it's that she has four entire movesets for literally no reason other than Sakurai likes her. Why not give them to characters like Mega Man, who would make a lot more sense with a full custom moveset, or add a newcomer who would fit more smoothly with it?
Like I said, Uprising had a lot of Smash in it. If Palutena's just pulling in more of that influence, it really wouldn't be much of a big deal since it was practically planned by Sakurai even before Uprising was finished in that scenario.
>Dark Samus. Don't give me that she would be a clone, the assist trophy uses moves that Samus doesn't in Kerfuffle, not to mention that there's no excuse when we have characters like Lucina in.
I agree they could and probably should have done that with Dark Samus. My only guess would be that the roster was designed so that clones would be kept to a certain number. At that point you might be able to argue that one clone got cut in favor of another, but we don't really know enough to even make that assumption yet anyways.
Falco got in after only being in two games.
Roy got in before even having one game.
Pichu got in with only one game.
You could bring up the argument that they're clones, but I still think Sheik stands for that. Could probably make the same argument for others.
>Why are the Fire Emblem characters deserving?
Because Awakening saved the series and they have a crossover game coming out on the Wii U with Shin Megami Tensei. Nintendo wants to have the series in peoples minds because a game on a console like the Wii U requires more money and requires entirely new assets, so it would more than likely be the most expensive game in the series. They want to return that investment and putting popular characters from the newest game in one of the biggest titles the entire console is going to get and one that is going to get bought consistently through the entire consoles lifespan is a good way to do that.
That probably doesn't fit your own definition of "deserving", though.
>relatively new and relevant
>from the Mario series, Nintendo's mascot franchise
>extremely popular among Mario fans
>has unique playstyle
>one of the very few characters to have been playable in a main Mario game
>"has literally no place in the game"
I don't see what you mean.
I'd like to see what other characters you have complaints with. I like most of them so chances are I'll disagree with you just like this on them.
>relatively new and relevant
Its literally Peach from space
>from the Mario series, Nintendo's mascot franchise
Plenty of more interesting Mario characters to choose from
>extremely popular among Mario fans
>has unique playstyle
Cant talk against this
>one of the very few characters to have been playable in a main Mario game
Why does this matter exactly?
All Im saying is that its a spot that could have been used for something more interesting, like Bowser's minions that could have borrowed pokemon trainer's style or something like that.
>Its literally Peach from space
But she isn't. Her design has some similarities but that's about it, and those are intentionally done. It's pretty obvious if you played SMG and went through the storybook. Her personality and role are completely different from Peach too. Like, they're just two different people who look somewhat alike. She's less like Peach than Luigi is like Mario. Hell, she's probably about as much of Peach as Wario is of Mario.
>Plenty of more interesting Mario characters to choose from
Subjective. I can disagree to that and there's nothing you can really refute with to that.
How isn't she? You've been in the MK8 threads right? People go on about how she's used too much online. I've also seen her used for plenty of 3D World runs. Nintendo themselves said she was popular, and there's no reason for them to lie about that unless you're wearing a tinfoil hat.
>Why does this matter exactly?
Gives her significance. The only other characters like that are the ones in Smash, as well as Toad.
>All Im saying is that its a spot that could have been used for something more interesting, like Bowser's minions that could have borrowed pokemon trainer's style or something like that.
Pokemon Trainer style was intentionally abandoned, hence why Charizard is his own character.
And how the fuck would Bowser's minions be interesting at all? Your idea for them is just a copy of a previous Smash Bros character anyways. Puppet master sounds way more interesting.
Yet tons of people use it and wonder why Fire Emblem got those two new reps. That's precisely why they got in. Or people try to think of reasons why other franchises deserved more representation.
Frankly Nintendo can't please everyone, and I'm sure they pleased quite a few people with their announcements.
Hell, there were people who felt an entire gender was being underrepresented in Smash Bros. and Nintendo is addressing that with this installment.
I pointed it out in the post you originally replied to
>Awakening saved the series, it makes sense they'd get reps.
>Upcoming game with SMT on the Wii U, could be the game with the highest budget in the entire series.
The FE characters certainly "deserve" to be in the game.
Except what you posted is wrong because that in and of itself is only your specific opinion of what series warrants reps and what doesn't.
Fire Emblem warranted more reps for the reasons that I posted. Outside of iconic characters these are the types of things that goes through Nintendo's mind when they add characters to this game.
>Except what you posted is wrong because that in and of itself is only your specific opinion of what series warrants reps and what doesn't.
No, it's not.
>Fire Emblem warranted more reps for the reasons that I posted
It is wrong, because it's implying that the only true "deserving" franchises are ones that are mega popular when mega popularity isn't the only thing that goes in to the decision.
Why exactly did Donkey Kong warrant another rep this time around? Why does Zelda? At this point since the iconic characters from those series are already in the game the series itself being popular doesn't even factor in to the equation.
I mean sure, Donkey Kong is a popular franchise but people are saying that because it is K.Rool should be in the game when K.Rool has not been relevant for a decade.
>/v/ hates pretty girl reveals
>pretty girls seem to play interestingly
>all the major first party characters were already repped in SSB for the N64
I don't see the problem.
I'd take more waifus, anyway. Pretty girls are fine (hopefully not clones, though).
I got Mega Man so I'm fully satisfied.
Yes, the word you used to describe A and B franchises and how that because they were A and B franchises they warranted more reps.
A and B franchises basically have all of their reps already, so their status doesn't really come in to equation. The only reason Mario got another one because Rosalina is a popular and new character. Someone like Daisy or Waluigi are never going to make it in to the game despite being attached to Mario.
>Probably because "deserving" has no real place in Smash OUTSIDE of the A+ to B list franchises
Yeah, you totally didn't use the word deserving to describe the A and B franchise.