>>253948628 It departed hugely from the series original genre and it made it rather shallow in every regard. There is enough wow factor initially to hook you but your experience has a sharp decline after the first 5-10 hours. If it had fully dedicated itself to one genre it would have been better. To shallow for a good RPG, the mechanics don't make it a good action game, everything is level scaled and there's not much to entice exploration making it a poor adventure game.
Incredibly bland writing, shitty engine that makes everything awkward, 12 voice actors who all say the same shit, shallow questlines that are usually shameless fetch quests, very few memorable characters, really simplistic and poor combat gameplay.
I understand that it's an open world game with a really loose narrative which means they have to do certain things to ensure the player character knows about something, but would it kill them to exercise a little bit of subtlety? You can't take a piss in Riften without someone yelling about the Thieves Guild.
7) horrible difficulty where enemies are either was too easy or stupidly overpowered with way too much health
8) mechanics and quests that lack depth
9) obnoxious story gimmick (dragons)
10) pathetic attempts to be "epic" ie the major story battle that's suppose to decide the fate of the kingdom consists of only a handful of dudes
11) boring and uninspired characters, the exceptions being the ones that were from previous games (like sheogorath)
12) limited soundtrack
13) shallow attempts at immersion, like getting married to a person without courtship and nothing particularly interesting happening as a result
And while i'm on the subject, its incredibly frustrating that, instead of using the money they made from Skyrim to make a new engine, they used it to make ESO which is even more of the same garbage but now it's ~multiplayer~
I literally spent 10 hours without a break modding Skyrim today. Filling the world up, fix characters, better graphics, better character models, alternate starting route, TONS of immersion mods, better combat and leveling, removal of levelscaling etc. I have always thought that Skyrim had great potential but that they had screwed it up, and that there would be relatively small changes needed to make the game great.
After those 10 hours I sat down, relaxed, started up the game and felt really hyped. At first the game felt great and really immersive. 30 minutes later I closed the game, installed porn mods, fapped and took a shower.
I want to like it, and I still believe that what I currently have installed would blow me away if I hadn't played Skyrim before, but it's still so incredibly disappointing and having played vanilla makes it difficult to push through.
generic story bland gray world primitive combat mediocre dialogs unremarkable characters repetitive quests tiny cities poor life simulation shallow characters boring magic villages look the same fighter's guild is some retarded werewolf crap easy boss fights
>Cool, did you see that dragon? I can't wait to fight him later; it should be a real challenge! Well, time to explore! A cave; that should be nice! >Whew, those dozens of Draugrs and spiders surely took an effort. Oh well, at least I got an...iron sword.
>Well, that kinda sucked. At least I can customize my character in unique ways! >What do you mean, one-piece armors?
>Well, I can still delve myself in the mysteries of magicka! >Hmm...so I can throw a ball of fire, make a wall of fire, and spray a jet of fire. I guess it's nice...
>Screw the tyranic Empire! I'll murder their general! > Oh, you're essential, and therefore can't be killed? Sorry about that.
>Well, at least I can enjoy the factions and their schemes! >Hey, I wanna join! Wait- what do you mean I'm the Archmage?
>At least, I guess, I can explore the towns. >So the great Imperial Capital, which is supposed to be able to hold the whole Imperial Legion, has 11 houses?
>You know what? RadiantAI! I'll enjoy my Infinite Quests™! >I brought your item. I killed that dude. I brought your item. I killed that dude. I brought your item. I killed that dude. Also, I killed a metric ton of Draugr, too; would you pay me for that?
>Screw all this. I'll just fight everyone. Combat is fun, right? >I slashed across your face twice, and you didn't even flinch! Are you a Draugr, too?
Also, I didn't make the picture, nor the copypasta above, so don't complain to me.
There were less options in terms of playstyle and items. Also, there were fewer guilds to join than previous games. Honestly the guilds that one could join had very easy and almost pointless as well as boring quest lines than older games.
>>253951069 This is the cycle I go through about once every month and a half or so. I beat it once, then modded it to hell and back with over 230 mods (most of them involving gameplay). I walk through the most gorgeous environments in any game I have ever played in (not vanilla though), snow obscures my vision as I trek through the tundra, pitch black dungeons hide terrifying monsters that can slay me in a few strikes, etc. I do that for about an hour before I quit and go play Morrowind or Thief or something actually good.
>>253951069 I have done this a few times, minus the porn mods and fapping.
I always install a bunch of mods which takes up an entire day of setting up. The following day I start playing. But every fucking time I find myself taking the same route. I do certain things first. I go to the same towns in order. I do the same guilds in order.
As an example. In oblivion or Morrowind. After I'm out of the introduction/tutorial. I just wander in a random direction and almost always find something new and interesting.
Here? I get out of the cave. Go to Riverwood. Hit bleakfalls barrow. Go to whiterun. Kill the dragon. Do all the quests there. Finish the guild.
At this point I'm exhausted from repeating the process.
And you've gotta do most of this, minus the guild/sidequests. The game is centered around shouting which requires some story progression.
Is this you, OP? >I cannot believe that there are uneducated idiots in the Western world that would so proudly defend a broken, unappealing mess so miserably depressing as Skyrim. If I was given Skyrim as a gift, I would off myself rather than associate with someone who openly enjoyed the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4f2MfsS5es
1 - The melee combat is bad. All you do is spam your power attack until you have no stamina, then you use your weak attack a few times waiting for your stamina to recharge so that you can do your power attack again. So it's not a matter of being rewarded for using the right moves in the right situations, there is a set way of doing it and that's how you have to do it.
2 - Ranged and magic combat is also bad. With ranged combat you just crouch somewhere and repetitively and boringly fire arrows over and over again. The enemies will randomly dodge these attacks and come after you, when in actuality, nobody would have had any reason to suddenly jump out of the way of an arrow. With magic combat you just switch from your ice attack to attack fire enemies, or vice versa. It's really boring and bland.
3 - Lack of enemy variety. Most of them are humanoid based (I.E., draugrs, bandits, etc.) and react in the same ways to your fighting. Of course there are a few exceptions which will be cherry picked as a counter point to this argument but that doesn't change the fact that most of the enemies are the same old boring thing over and over.
>>253956337 4 - Uncreative and repetitive dungeons / dungeon themes. Skyrim fans brag on the "huge" amount of content the game has but they fail to see that the same dungeon themes / formats are going to be looped over and over again, just laid out a bit differently. This means that you will be fighting the same boring enemies over and over again in the same old environments.
5 - Level scaling. I have no idea why level scaling is so popular. It is literally the best way to ruin a game, and I have never seen it implemented properly. The reason it's so bad is because there is no real incentive to level up, if all of the enemies are going to level up with you. So the only real difference when you level up is in the way your armor and weapons LOOK. Compare this to a normal game like Fallout: New Vegas. In FONV, yes, there are areas which are pretty much off limits at the beginning of the game, but you are heavily warned not to enter these areas and the concept is that you work your way up so that you can eventually fight the enemies which are more balanced around higher level characters. Skyrim fans find some novelty in the concept of being able to go wherever you want at any time without having to work your way up to something.
6 - Barren, empty overworld. Most of the time spent in the overworld is just walking, and I feel like the devs thought that the "prettiness" of the game would serve as a substitute for actual content. They wanted people to look at the sky, look at the scenery and go "ooooh wow", instead of actually having enemies to fight. By the way, Skyrim doesn't even look half as good as people pretend it does.
>>253956459 7 - Bad level up system. You train your stats by using that stat, for example, if you want to get better at stealth, you use stealth. If you want to get better at smithing, you use smithing. Might seem like a good idea on paper but the effect that this creates is that you may find yourself unable to upgrade some of your lower stats, and you will have to go back to earlier points in the game to upgrade them. It's better when you level up and the game gives you points to put in whatever stats you want. Skyrim fans argue that it doesn't make sense that you'd get speech points for using archery, but in terms of gameplay it's much better.
8 - Uninteresting story / lore. You're basically the "chosen hero", destined to acquire the "magical power", which will stop the "ultimate evil" who is "oppressing everyone". It's a very generic story, and it's indistinguishable from any other Harry Potter fanfic / knockoff out there. The whole thing with the archmage just shows how shallow the game truly is. You can be the shittiest mage ever but as long as you beat the quest, the game artificially kills off the archmage in the cheesiest way possible just so you can take his spot.
9 - Bad community. Arrow in the knee jokes were never funny, so they're definitely not funny the 1,000th time. They also can't understand why someone would consider Skyrim bad, in spite of all of the problems that I listed. Most of the people who worship Skyrim are very inexperienced gamers and that's why they think Skyrim is so good; they simply haven't experienced anything better.
>>253951223 >first time playing skyrim opening >HOLY SHIT A DRAGON >OH SHIT HIDE FROM THE DRAGON >GOTTA JUMP THIS BURNING TOWER >THERE IT COMES RUUUUN >second time playing skyrim opening >nothing can actually kill you, dragon literally doesn't react to you jerking off infront of it
>Choose side in the war for Skyrim (essentially the biggest decision you make in the entire game) >Rape the opposing faction >All that changes is what skin people have when walking around on patrol in cities And that's when I put the game on ice until a dickload of mods were out for it
>>253956337 >The melee combat is bad It's not as good as Dark Souls combat but Skyrim also is not as much focused on combat as this. With mods however it's even better than DaS (apart from the dodging perhaps).
>Ranged and magic combat is also bad Not true. The bow shooting is funny as hell and you actually really have the feeling of shooting real arrows in contrary to most other games. Magic is also diversified enough to be fun. You can do all kinds of stuff with magic, from summoning creatures, to healing followers, summoning magic weapons, creating catastrophes and apocolypses, etc.. >nobody would have had any reason to suddenly jump out of the way of an arrow Of course people would do this. Why would you not try to dodge an arrow when you see it coming? The arrows are a bit too slow in vanilla, but mods can change this. However, I find them good the way they are. >Lack of enemy variety Again, not true. There could be more of course, but there are already a shitton of enemies. And here mods also can add a shitton more.
>>253960116 >Of course people would do this. Why would you not try to dodge an arrow when you see it coming? They didn't see it coming, and this argument defines your entire post - You will attempt to undermine and justify any problems that Skyrim has.
Whatever. Go on believing that Skyrim is the greatest game of all time. It's only limiting your own gaming experience.
>>253956459 >Uncreative and repetitive dungeons / dungeon themes Not true again. People always say there are only always the same dungeons, but its just a lie. Dungeons can have all kinds of looks. Sure, there is a lot of copy pasting in some places, but it's still not really so much that it annoys or whatever. It's just a mix out of copy/pasting and new content sometimes.
>Level scaling. I have no idea why level scaling is so popular On this I agree with you, but I think this is just because games get too casualized nowadays. It#s sad, but its not only the case for TES. However, here also mods can help you.
>Barren, empty overworld. It#s funny, either people complain they have to fight too much in the overworld, or they say its nothing but walking. I find this both to be wrong. There is a really good amount of enemies on the overworld and if you do nothing but walking there, then that's your own fault. There is enough shit to do, to spend your time with. Skyrim has one of the most beautiful overworlds ever. It's just rather kept realistic, that's why some people don't find it that interesting, I guess.
>>253960320 >Being this forgiving when a game literally wasted 80 million dollars and proceeded to drop the standards of the franchise It didn't even get close to achieving what The Witcher 2 did, and that game's budget was pocket lint compared to Skyrim's
>>253951018 > instead of using the money they made from Skyrim to make a new engine, they used it to make ESO Actually, I couldn't even make that guess. Zenimax took out a $150,000,000 loan before ESO release, in 2010 I believe. If you assume Skyrim sold 9 million copies in first month, that would be *almost* half a BILLION dollars in retail, cut out the markups, Zenimax still gets over a quarter BILLION dollars. So what you really want to ask is: Where did Zenimax put half a billion dollars if ESO and Skyrim look like ass?
>>253960980 >It#s funny, either people complain they have to fight too much in the overworld, or they say its nothing but walking. >I find this both to be wrong. There is a really good amount of enemies on the overworld and if you do nothing but walking there, then that's your own fault. There is enough shit to do, to spend your time with. >Skyrim has one of the most beautiful overworlds ever. It's just rather kept realistic, that's why some people don't find it that interesting, I guess. Bet you described the ocean in Wind Waker as "beautiful" and "full of content".
>>253956586 >Bad level up system Again, I disagree. The leveling system makes only sense and is very intuitive. Skyrim just tries to not annyo you with stats and numbers, but rather tries to make the game feel more intuitive, for a better RPG experience. >you may find yourself unable to upgrade some of your lower stats I really don't see why you should be unable to do this. There are enough areas in the game where you can do just some casual hunting or whatever, to finetune your weaknesses. >Uninteresting story / lore It is quite generic, true, but TES has arguably the biggest lore in gaming history. It's just not very cinematic, but the quests actually can have some really cool features sometimes, like my last quest about having to talk to a ghost child, which died by burning in her house and her father might could have been the person who set the fire. I had to play a game with her and search for her so that she will tell me what I need to know about the accident. People say the story or the quests would be boring, but I find this to be not true. They are just not very cinematic, but that's just how the game works.
>Bad community If the community really would be that bad, then Skyrim definitely wouldn't be THE most modded game ever.
>Most of the people who worship Skyrim are very inexperienced gamers I play games already since the early 90s and already played a shitton of games. Never played a game as chilling and cool as my modded Skyrim though.
>This part of the game is bad, here's a mod for it.
I swear to fuck every single point you made involved a mod. You just told everyone that this game is shit, but if you rely on mods, it gets all better. If that game is shit before mods, the game is shit. Get over it.
A gamer shouldn't have to rely on other gamers/3rd party for a game to be good. Don't get me wrong I love modding and tweaking of games, but they don't make a game good.
>>253951069 The only time I beat the game and went through most of the content is by playing an assassin with a crossbow. Seems like the only way to derive enjoyment out of the "combat" is by having as little of it as possible by killing everything in one hit.
>>253962542 Of course it makes sense. Skyrim just makes the leveling system intuitive and realistic, rather than just illogical stats and number pinpointing. This way the game gets more immersive and you are better able to put yourself into the shoes of your character. It#s just more realistic this way. You don't need these stats and numbers to alter manually to make it a decent RPG. Way better when this alters actually by what you are doing in real time.
>>253960116 >It's not as good as Dark Souls combat but Skyrim also is not as much focused on combat as this. >With mods however it's even better than DaS (apart from the dodging perhaps). Simply because you declare it to be so? Not good enough. I gave a full description of Skyrim's combat and explained why it's bad, all you really did is say "No, this game's combat is better and this mod's combat is better". without really giving an explanation as to why. >Not true. The bow shooting is funny as hell and you actually really have the feeling of shooting real arrows in contrary to most other games. I don't really use weapons because I think they're "funny". And your argument is based on a "feeling" that you have. You can artificially choose to have any feeling about any gameplay element in any game. >Magic is also diversified enough to be fun. You can do all kinds of stuff with magic, from summoning creatures, to healing followers, summoning magic weapons, creating catastrophes and apocolypses, etc.. Different spells work in the same ways. The difference between shooting fire and ice from your hand is only whether it's red or blue, and then whatever enemies it affects / doesn't affect. Other games require unique and varied strategies to take down different enemies. And summoning something to fight for you is not interesting either. >Of course people would do this. Why would you not try to dodge an arrow when you see it coming? The arrows are a bit too slow in vanilla, but mods can change this. However, I find them good the way they are. They do not "see" the arrows coming, because you can shoot someone in the face with them looking directly at you and they won't move out of the way, and you can also shoot someone in the back of the head and they will. It's just bad AI and it's random. >Again, not true. There could be more of course, but there are already a shitton of enemies. And here mods also can add a shitton more. Again, simply because you say so?
>>253962725 I played about half of these games. Your point? These are cool games, but nothing compared to Skyrim. At least when you mod Skyrim. Modded Skyrim is the most immersive RPG game ever. Thats why I like it. It gives immersion like nothing else and you can put thousands of hours into it. I just played Dark Souls recently, and it was cool, but it already got boring after 2 hours because it's way too linear always about the same shit (smack enemies, smack boss).
>>253960980 >Not true again. People always say there are only always the same dungeons, but its just a lie. Dungeons can have all kinds of looks. Sure, there is a lot of copy pasting in some places, but it's still not really so much that it annoys or whatever. It's just a mix out of copy/pasting and new content sometimes. So you just undermine / ignore the problem, in other words. >On this I agree with you, but I think this is just because games get too casualized nowadays. It#s sad, but its not only the case for TES. Why do you give Skyrim a free pass on everything just because another game does it? >However, here also mods can help you. Why would I mod a bad game? >It#s funny, either people complain they have to fight too much in the overworld, or they say its nothing but walking. >I find this both to be wrong. There is a really good amount of enemies on the overworld and if you do nothing but walking there, then that's your own fault. There is enough shit to do, to spend your time with. >Skyrim has one of the most beautiful overworlds ever. It's just rather kept realistic, that's why some people don't find it that interesting, I guess. It's not realistic and it doesn't look good. This proves my point that you simply haven't experienced anything better. You're calling Skyrim "realistic". Wow.
And you're lying about the amount of content in the overworld. The enemies are not as frequent as you make them out to be. Most of the time you will just be walking.
>>253960116 >Magic is also diversified enough to be fun. You can do all kinds of stuff with magic, from summoning creatures, to healing followers, summoning magic weapons, creating catastrophes and apocolypses, etc.
The magic in this game is ass compared to any other TES game. Hell, the game before allowed you to alter your own and didn't have it so you need to lower your shield/switch out a weapon to use it.
Magic in Skyrim is useless for the most part compared to it's predecessors.
>>253961970 >Again, I disagree. The leveling system makes only sense and is very intuitive. Skyrim just tries to not annyo you with stats and numbers, but rather tries to make the game feel more intuitive, for a better RPG experience. That barely addresses what I was talking about. I was specifically referring to how you have to use a stat in order to level it up. >I really don't see why you should be unable to do this. There are enough areas in the game where you can do just some casual hunting or whatever, to finetune your weaknesses. Whereas in a normal game you could just go ahead and level them up when you need them instead of forcing the player to go grind. >It is quite generic, true, but TES has arguably the biggest lore in gaming history. It's just not very cinematic, but the quests actually can have some really cool features sometimes, like my last quest about having to talk to a ghost child, which died by burning in her house and her father might could have been the person who set the fire. I had to play a game with her and search for her so that she will tell me what I need to know about the accident. People say the story or the quests would be boring, but I find this to be not true. They are just not very cinematic, but that's just how the game works. So it's not good, there's just a lot of it. Got it. Quantity > quality I guess. >If the community really would be that bad, then Skyrim definitely wouldn't be THE most modded game ever. I don't see what that has to do with the community being bad, and I don't see how you can prove that it's the most modded game ever. Because you like it I guess? >I play games already since the early 90s and already played a shitton of games. Never played a game as chilling and cool as my modded Skyrim though. This doesn't mean that you're experienced or that you've played the right games though.
>>253963763 >These are cool games, but nothing compared to Skyrim. >games with proper combat aren't as good as Skyrim's "spam your power attack until you run out of stamina" combat >games with proper puzzles aren't as good as Skyrim's "press the button to open the door" puzzles >games with nice compacted overworlds (small but full of content) aren't as good as Skyrim's big and open but lifeless overworld >games with really good lore / story like Dark Souls aren't as good as Skyrim's "chosen hero destined to gain the magical power and save everyone" lore
Some people just have shit taste, and you're one of them.
>>253963516 >I gave a full description of Skyrim's combat and explained why it's bad Your discription was bullshit though. You can't use power attacks at all all the time. When you have to fight against more than one enemy, doing a power attack can be deadly, because it's too slow and takes too much stamina.
I think the vanilla combat is rather more about the stats of your character and the enemy, rather than about your own personal fighting skills on the keyboard/pad. That's just because Skyrim is still not an action RPG like Dark Souls, but rather pays more attention also to other stuff than just combat. However, with the right mods you can make it just like Dark Souls and even better. >And your argument is based on a "feeling" that you have And yours is based on lies. You cant just crouch there and shoot enemies at all. In my Skyrim you would die in 2 seconds. >The difference between shooting fire and ice from your hand is only whether it's red or blue Complete bullshit. When you shoot ice magic, you shoot tiny thin ice needles for example, when you shoot fire magic, you can shoot big fire balls which even do colleteral damage when they hit something. It#s not the same at all. >Other games require unique and varied strategies to take down different enemies In Skyrim you also need strategy to be able to not get killed. You have to pay very much attention to your positioning for example. There might not be many end boss patterns, which just get boring after first playthrough anyway, but its not that you dont need any strategy. Not to mention when you play the game with mods. There you need even more strategy to not die. >They do not "see" the arrows coming If you have enough distance, anyone can see arrows coming. >simply because you say so? Yes, just like you did it. Do you want me here to list every enemy or what?
>>253965353 >Your discription was bullshit though. Simply because you declare it to be so? You'll might as well stop responding, I'm going to expose your bullshit and respond to every single lie you throw out there. I'll stay here for 10 hours if I have to and I will literally respond to every single thing you say. >You can't use power attacks at all all the time. And where did I say that? I brought up that you use your power attack over and over, then when it runs out, you just use your weak attack while you wait for it to recharge so you can use it again. It's boring and repetitive. >When you have to fight against more than one enemy, doing a power attack can be deadly, because it's too slow and takes too much stamina. Yet it's still your best option. >I think the vanilla combat is rather more about the stats of your character and the enemy, rather than about your own personal fighting skills on the keyboard/pad. No, stats don't come in to play because of the level scaling. Any stats that you have are arbitrary. >That's just because Skyrim is still not an action RPG like Dark Souls, but rather pays more attention also to other stuff than just combat. The old "this game gets a free pass because it's an RPG" card. >However, with the right mods you can make it just like Dark Souls and even better. Simply because you declare it to be so? >And yours is based on lies. You cant just crouch there and shoot enemies at all. In my Skyrim you would die in 2 seconds. No, my argument is based on a fact about how the gameplay in Skyrim works, and your argument is based on lies. You're the one with an agenda to push here, not me.
>>253966773 >Complete bullshit. When you shoot ice magic, you shoot tiny thin ice needles for example, when you shoot fire magic, you can shoot big fire balls which even do colleteral damage when they hit something. It#s not the same at all. I'm specifically referring to the stuff you spray from your hands. It's negligible, and even what you described is not a proper example of variety when you look at something like Deus Ex, Fallout: NV, etc. >In Skyrim you also need strategy to be able to not get killed. I would hope. The fact that you have to point this out leads me to believe otherwise. With any other game, that's a given. >You have to pay very much attention to your positioning for example. Yet you can't explain why, you just say that that's how it is. You're not explaining how that's true, nor are you explaining how that's beneficial to the game. >There might not be many end boss patterns, which just get boring after first playthrough anyway, but its not that you dont need any strategy. Again, I would hope so, and with any other game, this is a given. >Not to mention when you play the game with mods. There you need even more strategy to not die. You can use "mods" as an argument to why any game is good. The question is why would I mod Skyrim, when I can mod a good game? >If you have enough distance, anyone can see arrows coming. They don't "see it coming", it's just a stupid thing they programmed in to the game and it doesn't really make sense. >Yes, just like you did it. Do you want me here to list every enemy or what? No, I gave a full description of the game's combat, and you basically just disagreed without really saying why.
Ladies and gentlemen, the typical Skyrim fan. Absolutely no intelligence whatsoever, no ability to defend his shitty game, and no knowledge or experience of good VS bad game mechanics.
You're just mad because people don't like the game, so you have to rationalize any proper arguments against the game away. I guess we're all supposed to hold Skyrim to a different standard than we do other games; it should be our "special" game that nobody is allowed to criticize.
>>253967074 >the thing you like is shit because you insulted my beloved Skyrim! You just made yourself look like a huge fucking idiot. By the way, funny that you would even dare to say the word "Souls" because Dark Souls literally does everything that Skyrim did - Only better.
The combat is better, the weapon variety is better, the armor is cooler looking, it has PVP, the world is more diverse and interesting to explore, the lore is better, the bosses are better, etc.
Skyrim and the people who like it are literally a fucking joke.
>>253967095 I am not mad at all. I honestly don't give a shit what 4chan thinks in any way. It's full of retarded hate filled idiots here anyway. I just don't have anything better to do at the moment than posting in a Skyrim thread.
The only person who seems mad is rather you, otherwise you wouldn't try to prove so hard that Skyrim is ostensibly such a shitty game. If you don't like a game then stay away from it, but don't waste your time with nnsense like this.
>>253967496 >I am not mad at all. I honestly don't give a shit what 4chan thinks in any way. It's full of retarded hate filled idiots here anyway. Right. Right. That's the only reason we criticize Skyrim. It's not because it's a bad game and it deserves it. Way to do exactly what I just told you you were doing.
>The only person who seems mad is rather you, otherwise you wouldn't try to prove so hard that Skyrim is ostensibly such a shitty game. Right. Right. The people who don't like what you like are just "mad". Right. Even though I gave you a full description of why the game is bad, let's just ignore all those specific arguments and chalk it up to "you mad?! XD"
>If you don't like a game then stay away from it, but don't waste your time with nnsense like this. If you like a game then don't fucking cry about it when people criticize it. No game is immune from criticism. If you can't deal with this then go to some anti-free speech site like Gamefaqs. If you need the protection and shelter of the mods from opinions that you don't like, then go somewhere else.
>>253968948 >but Bethesda did No, they did not. There were plenty of games with a big open world to explore before TES became popular, and Skyrim is fucking trash, so if that's the result of these years and years of planning and making the game "better" then I have to question their ability to make games in general.
Also just look at Fallout: NV, it did everything Fallout 3 did but better, and then Bethesda had a panic attack and threw a little hissy fit at Obsidian because they outdid them at their own game.
Bethesda is just one of those sacred developers like Rockstar who is considered to be immune from criticism by most of /v/. In all honesty they're down there with Bioware.
>>253968524 >>253969215 >Anti-Skyrim argument: Here is a full description of the game and its mechanics and here is why I don't feel that these things are beneficial to the game >Pro-Skyrim argument: lol u jelly? #lerektface
>>253969963 It's sad that these things are indistinguishable to some people, and it shows that they've never played a good game.
There's the kind of game that will grab you right from the very beginning and you will fall in love with it and you will not be able to stop playing it until you beat the game. Sometimes you may even feel compelled to play through the whole game again because it was so good. But of course, there will always come a point where the feeling dies out, and you can honestly say you've done everything worth doing.
And then there's the feeling where you're really trying to get in to a game, but you don't like the mechanics, and something about the gameplay just turns you off, but you're half way through the game, and you did spend $60, so might as well finish it.
This being said, it's as if you have to delude yourself in to believing that "good" and "bad" are synonymous in order to enjoy Skyrim. Most people have not played enough good games to be able to tell these things apart. It's sad, really. Casual elitism is the worst.
>>253970804 Not him and I love Dark Souls but they don't want people using KB/M because then it wouldn't be an option on consoles and the definitive version of the game would be the PC version. To be more specific, the PC version already is the definitive version, but it would make owning the console versions absolutely useless.
That's why they keep forcing the controllers down everyone's throats and they deliberately fuck up the default controls for KB/M and won't take the time to make them good. All the high level PVP stuff would be on the PC and not on the consoles.
>>253970993 So you see nothing contradictory about the fact that you tell people their opinion on a game doesn't count if they haven't beaten it, but then when they go beat it you say "well you secretly loved it!"
Rather it's a half hearted sequel that didn't advance that much from its predecessor, which didn't advance much from its predecessor.
Everyone played Morrowind and expected the next games to go to amazing new places... then we played those next games and found them to still be just as stale and lifeless with a few new gimmicks added and some freedom removed.
It's neat the first playthrough. Like one anon said though, it doesn't have the same world that previous TES games had. My main gripe was that every dungeon/cave/castle had a guaranteed treasure chest with a quick backdoor exit. Made exploring a bit too convenient since you knew exactly what you were going to get every time you took on a location. I thought the skill system was poorly done as well.
>>253969789 >The worst environments in the entire series. >Complete removal of the vast majority of fantasy and "otherworldly" elements. >Bland quests with most quests being even worse than Skyrim's, especially Daedric quests. >The ugliest fucking graphics ever. Period. >Copy-paste assets all over the god damn place, worse than any other game I've played. >Bad voice acting. >Bad to mediocre everything except Shivering Isles and maybe KotN.
I went from Morrowind to Skyrim to Oblivion, and was surprised at just how much worse Oblivion was than the other two I had played.
At least Skyrim has immersion and quests that actually feel unique. Most of what was in Oblivion was just fetch quests.
Compare Daedric quests between games: Oblivion: Go cast this spell on people/Go kill these people because I don't like them.
Skyrim: Every Daedric quest is different and if not entirely unique, at least feels unique.
>>253970345 It was definitely better than the Skyrim equivalent, but one good questline in the base game is still not enough to make the entire game good. Oblivion was saved from the garbage by its DLC, whereas Skyrim could at least stand on its own.
Overall Skyrim's world was just better than Oblivion's too.
>>253971909 >Oblivion was just fetch quests Skyrim isn't "go kill X leader, go get x item"?
>Skyrim had unique Daedric quests that werent "Go kill these people because I don't like them" Peryite=Go kill this guy because I don't like him Azura=Go kill this guy because muh star Meridia=Go kill yet another former priest because reasons
You can say Oblivion sucked quest wise but Skyrim was no different if not worse.
>>253972091 Never did the Thieve's Guild quest. So, again, cherry picking 1-2 good questlines doesn't save the entire game. If you have to go digging through bland shit and mediocrity to get to the gems in the game, it's not a good game.
Morrowind, outside of gameplay, was great through and through.
Skyrim, outside of the fucking terrible main quest and the civil war line, was decent to great everywhere.
Oblivion's quests were boring, the world was a crayola painting, characters were more flat and uninteresting than Skyrim's, etc.
Most the praise Oblivion seems to get is from people that were in their teens when it came out and it was babby's first RPG. Having played it right after beating Skyrim, I wasn't impressed with it at all.
>>253972870 Excuse me sir, but it's come to our attention that you're harassing anonymous users on the internet. I'm going to let you go with a warning this time, but if you keep this up you'll find yourself in deep trouble.
>>253973225 He's judging games based on an incomplete experience. If we're judging the game based on just the main storylines then why the fuck are we even discussing these shit games? You're suppossed to try all of the content, not just follow the lines you fucking faggot
>>253972609 >>Oblivion was just fetch quests >Skyrim isn't "go kill X leader, go get x item"?
No, but that's virtually all Oblivion had. These tales of Oblivion's superior quests are all one-offs, and even though Skyrim also has an excess of fetch quests, at least the places you're sent have a unique layout or some lore about them. Most of Oblivion was copy-paste assets everywhere, everything seemed to be underground, and everything was just bland. Stretches of big empty forest and seemingly random lake placements.
>>Skyrim had unique Daedric quests that werent "Go kill these people because I don't like them" >Peryite=Go kill this guy because I don't like him
Yes, but the dungeon you go into is one of the largest and has one of the most well-designed layouts in the game, features semi-unique enemies, and has a unique boss at the end. You trudge through a huge Dwemer ruin fighting a bunch of acid-spewing priests to obtain your prize.
>Azura=Go kill this guy because muh star
That isn't the quest at all.
>Meridia=Go kill yet another former priest because reasons
Again, you fight a unique enemy in a unique dungeon.
My point stands. When the Daedric quests in Skyrim weren't entirely unique, they at least felt like they were, in contrast to Oblivion, in which they were almost word-for-word what I said: Go use this spell on these NPCs, don't get caust/Go kill these guys. Here's your prize.
>You can say Oblivion sucked quest wise but Skyrim was no different if not worse.
At lot of Skyrim's quests were better. Becoming a Nightingale was great, killing the Emperor was a nice build up, turning into a werewolf, Vampire Lord, Retrieving an Elder Scroll from a massive Dwemer City hundreds of feet below ground, etc.
Trying to say things like that were the same or somehow worse than Oblivion is just retarded bias and/or nostalgia.
>>253973709 Have a unique layout or some lore? Plenty of places are simply: Cave Corridor-> small room->Cave Corridor->Bigger Room with boss level npc. Several of the caves/ruins are just as similar in Skyrim and if you take time to look around in Oblivion dungeons, they have stories of their own.
Peryite is another Dwemer Dungeon with regular human npcs that spew green "fire" at you. How amazingly unique.
Azura has you talk to someone, climb an average instance filled with average enemies and then fight an average human npc in his magic crystal world that is one small hallway.
Since you've already pointed that you ignored all the faction questlines in Oblivion, why should I care about all the ones you enjoyed in Skyrim?
I think you're also blinded by bias and nostalgia for Skyrim since you played it prior to Oblivion.
Peryite had a unique boss? I can fucking call any enemy "unique" if he qualifies as one. He's a regular spellcaster that easily dies in one hit and has very little differences compared to any other boss mob
Meridia was again, a ruined area where you fight spirits. Only unique part of it was pulling the levers (which they called orbs) to open up the next part of the "kill 2 or 3 more spirits and grab whatever garbage is laying around"
Azura is very much so "go kill x for muh star" in Skyrim.
Oblivion with mods is leagues ahead of Skyrim. But I'll be real and admit that it is far too much of a fucking hassle to get to that point. FCOM with OblivionXP, Open+Better Cities, the graphics overhauls, etc. It also turns an already unstable game into a crash every other hour (if you're lucky.)
I still play and enjoy Skyrim but it sucks that the mods are going to need another three years before they really shine.
It burns away all the resentment I have for Skyrim's existence, and replaces the painful memories with the joy of playing the closest thing to a D&D campaign we ever got in vidya. Just kinda wish the world and maps were a bit more open, but what can you do?
Also, I played Skyrim in 2011, so the fact that I'm still mad at how shitty it was speaks volumes about just how awful it really is.
>>253975251 The last boss for Peryite has completely unique AI in the game. He randomly goes invisible and runs away. Teleports around the large room he's in, and uses the poison spew that everyone else in that dungeon uses.
Meridia's dungeon at least felt unique, which if you knew how to read you would've actually read somewhere in the posts you're replying to. The last boss is also a necromancer who transforms into a Lich.
The Dawnbreaker itself is also an entirely unique weapon with a unique effect not seen in any other Elder Scrolls game. This extends to another gripe I had with Oblivion: Most of the Daedric items were just boring, with only the Wabbajack (which was a worse version of the one in Skyrim,) and the Staff of Corruption doing anything interesting.
>>253975614 No, it feels boring solving the puzzles in the actual test chambers (which seems to be what you base the quality of the games on) in both games. I just like the feeling of using the portal gun to escape.
Honestly, while Oblivion has some of the stupidest leveling interface in history, I still prefer it to Skyrim.
Otherwise, Oblivion has the superior story and questing so I can actually enjoy what I'm doing in that. Having three stats to choose from? Boring. Don't feel like I'm even changing anything. Having to get three stupid perks I'll never use to get to a useful one? Retarded, prefer Oblivion giving me a new ability every 25 skill ups with a change in rank mastery.
That and Oblivion being even slightly more complex made it feel a lot better compared to Skyrim having everything completely dumbed down to the point where I don't even care about any of the skills.
>>253973582 the internet was raving about Skyrim before it even came out. it was the perfect storm of hype and viral marketing that even the casuals couldn't ignore. once it came out, the experienced gamers became quickly disillusioned while the casuals were charmed by the talking kitties and the non-threatening simplicity.
>>253948628 >World starts out great until you realize that there is no diversity in the world and that it feels extremely empty >You are meant to be the underdog who discovers that he is Dragonborn in a world that doesn't revolve around you, but that never happens since you are the central focus of the world >Level scaling in the upperworld and dungeons as well >Low dungeon variety >Low enemy variety >Barely any gear variety >Dragons are meant to be difficult, but they are ridiculously easy to kill and require no strategy to take down >Dragons get killed by villagers and horses >The "huge" cities are small and do not feel alive at all >Every guild will accept you no matter what >Guilds are shit, not only the are they shallow as fuck, but you become their leader in five quests or less >No consequences for joining a guild, you can go kill the Emperor for the Dark Brotherhood and then do the Imperial quests, no one gives a fuck >Do three-four quests for a guild and you will become the leader >NPCs and the world do not react to huge quests like assassinating the Emperor other than a simple line >Terrible AI, enemies just charge straight at you >Essential NPCs everywhere >Unable to create spells >Only magic that scales well is Conjuration >The main quest is really short >Alduin is barely different from the other dragons, he simply has an extra ability >No RPG elements >No stats at all >Awful perk system where 90% of the perks are passives >Storyline composed of five quests >Awful dialogue >Barely any dialogue options >NPC affection/respect didn't change their dialogue options >Loading screens >Unable to choose what you want to do in quests, you can't even refuse to do the Daedra quests once they've started >You are forced to become a werewolf >You are forced to become a nightingale >No one in the world adapts to the shit you've done in the world I'm just nitpicking since a game in a franchise of RPGs should not have RPG elements or less gameplay than the previous
There's, almost literally, 2 bosses in Skyrim that teleport so far as I know. The other being the boss during the reforge amulet questline, who also clones himself, which was unique to him.
>>253977169 You're attacking things I never even said and making massive assumptions from nothing as a basis for some bizarre argument no one but you is having. This is why I assume you don't know how to read.
>>253977464 Meridia's dungeon at least FELT unique. Which is what I said to begin with. What some of Skyrim's quests lack in actual uniqueness, they made up for by putting in a mechanic that made them feel unique.
>Venture into my temple. >Guide my light through the halls and cleanse the undead. >Kill the grand Necromancer at the end, who turns into a powerful Lich.
While the quest is, in essence: >Go into a dungeon and kill this guy.
The way it is done, and the reward for doing it isn't like any other quest in the game.
>>253948628 I was extremely dissapointed with it because it was SO...FUCKING...GENERIC... which is what the opposite of elder scrolls should be in my opinion. Morrowind was fucking Morrowind, I felt like I was dropped into some complete shit stain third world country with people and beliefs I hadn't even heard about yet with white people trying to be white people there and the natives going bat shit nuts with their own cults organizations and douchebaggery. Everything was a surprise, I was learning, it was new. Fucking deciding to jump in a house and finding an expensive weapon on top of a dresser. Levitating to the top of some crazy completely free form design cavern to find some crazy bad ass enchanted item that has some lore in some book somewhere. LEVITATING ACROOS THE FUCKING MAP LAUNCHING NUKES AT ASHLANDERS AS THE FUCKING NEREVARINE. Oblivion was the center of the Empire so it was a bit more acceptable to be generic but it still had cool new outlandish things like the hist, ayleid ruins were cool, and going into Oblivion was net. Skyrim was generic uninspired watered down broken shit and I hated it.
>Much worse quests and guilds than Oblivion >Every enemy is a draugr >grey as fuck >combat is somehow worse than Oblivion's >linear dungeons >god awful UV mapping >civil war quest line is terrible >shit writing >small cities
>>253981375 >You think the combat sucks he thinks it doesnt suck Yet I gave a description of the game mechanics and I explained why I didn't feel they were good at the game. He simply asserted his opinion without explaining why.
>Literally what you are doing No it's not.
>Can people stop acting like their views are facts and just accept that some people might like X even though you think its shit This is what people like you always say to people who are able to formulate a proper argument. You want to believe that your opinions are just as good as any other, yet you believe things like "it's good because I like it because it's fun", while other people are able to address very specific elements of the gameplay and explain why it's appropriate or inappropriate for the game.
>>253948628 They added too much videogame shit (fast travel, loot/enemy leveling, essential characters, waypoint system instead of directions). Now instead of feeling like you are in a different world you feel like you're playing a game
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