Any modern roguelikes worth playing?
Are there good roguelikes on steam at all?
>Any modern roguelikes worth playing?
Some of them
>Are there good roguelikes on steam at all?
One Way Heroics, Dungeons of Dredmor, Neo Scavenger, and Legend of Dungeons are all worth playing for a little while.
Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead is very very good, even if development is dead, the original dev who abandoned it years ago is now working on Cataclysm 2, which is looking even better.
LCS is fun, but isn't a traditional roguelike, it's more a domestic terrorist simulator. It also has the best pickup lines in history.
Dungeons of Dredmor is pretty fun, especially if you mod the fuck out of it, it's easy to mod so there's a shitton of stuff on the Steam workshop for it. It goes down to like a couple bucks during sales.
Legend of Dungeon is an alright roguelike. A bit unconventional as it plays like a beat-em-up and has multiplayer, but it's alright. Some people also have a hard-on for Risk of Rain, though I don't see why myself.
>Playing ToME as Reaver
>Just melting everything with poison and acid like a fucking boss
>Blow my chance of unlocking another class when my splash damage hits that evil sorcerer you can team up with to destroy the antimagic village
>Get to orc continent
>Blademaster boss narrowly beats me
>One life left, I'll go somewhere else for a while
>Take one step into another orc base and immediately get blown the fuck out by 30 magic users that were flanking me on standby
Haven't tried it again since because I'm so burned out on the early game
>let's not finish the game
>let's start working on the sequel instead
>it'll be good when it's done, I promise
Are there any discernible differences between free and commercial roguelikes other than the price and, presumably, graphic quality? Do the commercial ones have a better game design and thus are worth the price?
Brogue and Stone Soup are both free and I have sunk hundreds of hours into both because they're solid, well balanced games.
I've yet to find a paid roguelike that has better game mechanics and balance than free ones. They look pretty, but aside from that, they lack the structure to keep you playing.
ToME is worth checking out. It's a fairly big game.
Dungeon Crawl is and always will be the best up to date roguelike.
DoomRL is fun as fuck and really worth checking out.
Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode isn't strictly a roguelike, but it has that delicious open ended punishing permadeath gameplay. It's tragically underrated due to Fortress mode taking all of the limelight.
I'm one of the small handful of people who couldn't give less of a fuck about Fortress mode. Adventure mode is fun as shit and I'm so glad all the recent updates have been focused around adding content and mechanics to it, eventually that shit will be ASCII Daggerfall or something.
>implying "roguelites" and roguelikes are remotely similar
I wouldn't even classify aurora a roguelite
Abyss odyssey has a lot of roguelike elements, like perma-death, random loot, random weapons, random enemies and areas and the like.
But it's a side scrolling game with a fighting system based on fighting games. Complete with move canceling as a major mechanic.
The devs frequently remove things for poor reasons. You can't even play a dwarf anymore because they felt dwarves filled the same role as orcs, so they just took them out. You'd be way better off playing the original Dungeon Crawl at this rate, since it actually has more content than its successor.
My main problem now is that every version they keep removing things. Then the next version they remove something else because the thing they removed the previous version made it pointless. Repeat next version.
I am just waiting for them to remove cursed items soon. It's just an inconvenience now.
Just tell me upfront if you have nothing of value to say.
That happened forever ago and the only real thing it changed was that I could no longer beat the game as a DwBe while half asleep. Really their only notable trait was high stats. And while they and some other races have been removed, actually interesting races such as Octopi, Gargoyles, and Felines have been added.
I do still miss them though.
>nothing of value
>implying they don't remove shit for no reason
>implying it isn't dumbed down and casual
>implying the only thing it has going for it is the religion
>implying you know what you're talking about
That's the design ethos. They remove redundant shit in order to experiment with more interesting things. Mountain Dwarves were taken out because they were boring as fuck with bland stats and the ability to effectively use basically every single weapon in the game from the word go.
In return we get Formicids, which are RAD AS FUCK. Permanent stasis removes all reliable forms of escape, forcing you to actually play smart. In return you get the ability to dig down through levels if you get in to a shitty situation - you choose between guaranteed death on your current floor or possible death on a floor several levels down. It's great, and fuck you if you'd rather have Mountain Dwarves than that.
There's ADOM II (which I've yet to play) and ADOM I technically since a new version came out recently and is also coming to steam soon (1.fuck scumming.0).
It's what I've been playing recently because I never beat it.
The thing it changed is that you can't play a dwarf. It might be nothing but a name on the character sheet, but imagination plays a huge role in this sort of game. These are role playing games after all. Devs needlessly removing entire races just because they don't serve a practical use is more than enough reason to drop DCSS forever and just play better roguelikes with more choice.
Desktop Dungeons is the only modern (and commercial) roguelike that is legitimately good, and I own all of them. Some of them are cute and can be fun for a while, but have no depth to them, like Dungeons of Dredmor. Even Desktop Dungeons isn't a full roguelike, being a "coffee break" roguelike with fast play.
The best roguelikes are still the old ones:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup
Dwarf Fortress: Adventure is getting there.
DoomRL I'm not sure how to categorize as modern or not, but it's worth a look regardless.
Kinda pissed off how every other indie game tries to sell itself as a roguelike.
Well, that's your prerogative. I agree that imagination plays a huge role in the game, and that Dwarves are a huge RP staple.
That doesn't seem like a great reason to drop the game altogether though, obviously if it really upset you enough to drop it altogether just like that, then there's probably nothing I can say to persuade you. Why not just go back to DCSS when there was a different race you wanted to play though?
All good roguelikes are free.
Play Brogue. It will make you happy.
Because the game is in the hands of people who remove more than they add. There's no telling what they'll get rid of next, because their decisions aren't the result of careful consideration. In this case it's better not to play the game at all rather than have the rug pulled out from under you when they take away the last thing that makes the game worth playing.
God this game takes the fucking piss.
I can't tell where to go for the best. Sometimes I walk into an area after a pretty easy area and I immediately get raped from all sides by a plant summoning cunt boss.
I never got raped in that game. I'd walk outside of the high security areas and I'd just get shot or stabbed. Never raped.
>I can't tell where to go for the best
Pic related, your welcome.
>I never got raped in that game.
You have to do the raping.
DCSS is alright but it seems like the devs can't ever have an update where they don't make at least one Full Retard move
Dwarf Fortress is extremely complex and deep but always has at least one game-changing bug(currently it's that Fear is too strong an emotion so whenever you kill one guy everyone else will immediately drop to the fetal position and cry)
Elona is hilarious and strange but poorly translated and barely a roguelike.
IVAN would be an incredible game if it didn't absolutely fucking hate you, like to an insane, vicious extent.
ADOM and Nethack are basically the old standards the other ones are judged off of.
those are the ones I've played
It's an exaggeration to say they remove more than they add, but if your concern is that something you can't do without will be removed, then I think you have bigger things to worry about.
You can't go through life avoiding experiences because you're afraid of them turning out poorly.
Unreal World if you like wilderness survival.
I got myself 2 nets and a fishing rod and I just raft around the islands all day catching fish.
I have yet to make it to winter as I wage war on njerpez on startup.
Highscore is 6 months of life and 5 dead villages. I only even lived that long to heal the worst of the injuries I survived.
This is true, you need just kind of come up with something yourself and then go out and try to do it. I believe the devs are in the middle of making quests so hopefully that can give some direction and objectives for the player to do.
As to what those quests entail, I'm not entirely sure.
Guys, i need a new elona, one that don't want to force you to do odd jobs so you can farm your skills, it's like grinding the right to grind. There won't be another rogue like thread in days at least
I went in and massacred a village just using some spears, of course I did just back myself into a house and waited as they piled in through the door.
The longest I've made it is about 3 months, but I forgot to back up my save file when I wiped my HDD. A lot of the times I'll just end up getting bored and try spearing some villagers or something. I've only ever encountered a Njerpez once and he got the jump on me and killed me. Thats why this time I'm just going rafting around the islands, hopefully they won't find me.
Yea I know what you are saying, after awhile though I barely even notice them. There was also a mod that changed a lot of the graphics around and replaced all those photos with nice hand drawn ones that looked exceptionally good. I'm not sure if its compatible with the latest version but Its hosted somewhere on the forums.
Yes you can if you wanted to, all you have to do is just replace the picture files in one of the folders.
Yes it is, just because it doesn't have a shitty UI doesn't make it not a roguelike. It has the exploration, perma death, hacknslash kill monsters, random generation levels, and resource management with your health and bombs and specials.
>all this pleb shit
Step it up, fags. Play a real fucking game.
Does it have cursed items? Does it have scrolls of identification for identifying unknown equipment? Does it have religion? Does it have turn based gameplay? Do you move one square at a time on a grid based field?
No? Fuck off.
It's true. Besides what goals you set for yourself, Unreal World has no objective.
There is no ending (other than death).
It's still pretty neat, but if you're accustomed to diving for the orb of zot or amulet of yendor, you may feel a bit unmotivated.
>finished ascension kit
>hey I guess I might as well wield this cockatrice corpse
>you fall into a pit!
>you turn to stone...
The pills have a random effect but that doesn't mean you have unidentified equipment that you wear that may be blessed/cursed and you use scrolls of identification to identify them. It's not even close to the same.
>Does it have religion?
You may want to rephrase that question.
Roguelikes at it's core is a turn based roleplay, the whole point is you can take as long as you want on a single move, you can even leave the game, because no one is going to move until you decide what you do.
I don't play roguelikes to play an action game.
Ignore this guy >>254223669
How outdated are you?
>The definition of roguelike is dependent on a number of factors, as described in the often cited Berlin Interpretation [http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation].
>However, the broad nature of the Berlin Interpretation allows many games not traditionally considered to be roguelikes to be categorized as such, so stricter definitions of what qualifies as a roguelike have been adopted by various communities. Currently, one of the most accepted interpretations on /vg/ is that a game is a roguelike if and only if it has these 4 elements:
>Permadeath - Might be optional or have ways to cheat (eg. Wizard mode), but it has to be a core element of the game.
>Turn Based - Roguelikes are about thinking, not about quick reflexes.
>Grid Based - Everything happens in a grid, where every element of the game use a set space, usually one tile, although some games have multi-tiled monsters or structures.
>Randomly generated content - Since (perma)death is so common in roguelikes, every new game has to be different to keep the gameplay from becoming repetitive.
Binding of Isaac has randomly generated dungeons, bosses (from a list), and items. It also has class selection.
Those are its only similarities to Rogue-likes.
It isn't turn based. There is no inventory management. It doesn't have a nutrition timer (or any timer).
It's much closer to a 2d Zelda game than it is to a Rogue-like.
It doesn't work that way
They usually have more than 5 gods at omnipresent, and each aren't just your generic item shop that you can just trade for items. You need to build up your typical Faith meter to receive further rewards, which TBOI doesn't have
I was around when rlg reached that definition.
The thing is, they first kind of decided which games deserved to be called roguelikes and which didd't and tried to build a ddefinition tailored to those lists. That part about permadeath is redacted like that to fit Elona.
Is Wurm a roguelike?
>has gods and religion system
>has elaborate crafting system
>hunger and thirst bar
>permadeath is a given
>has taming and riding
>has RNG every nooks and crannies
What else did I miss
It's a neat roguelike that for the most part adheres strictly to the D&D 3.5 ruleset. For one thing, I like that it shows you the dicerolls and calculations out in the open, its fun to see when you failed a save by one point and such.
It's actually abandoned by the developer. There are a lot of unimplemented things, but I've enjoyed the game for what it is. there's someone developing it, but they aren't adding any of the unimplemented stuff, just bug fixing.
Binding of Isaac is a real-time top-down shooter.
Randomly generated dungeons and permanent death don't turn it into a rogue-like.
It does, however, get to say it has rogue-like elements without being full of shit.
No, you come up to enemy or they come to you and it fights like Runescape, there's even a board to choose different styles. There's a distance meeter and footing indication that tell you if you had the advantage. In short the combat is pretty shit but has depths.
It's in first person though, also Notch used to help make the game until he left to make Minecraft.
Don't you have limited "crawl out of the grave" times? Don't you drop everything you have upon death?
Don't know about the former(don't remember anything about that) but you lose a lot of money, some of your items, and you lose stats.
However you can get some equipment back if you go where you die. Regardless that's not permadeath in the slightest for obvious reason.
As to your post I would say no because >>254226876 >>254224543 >>254224227
Being able to take as long as you want to decide what you want to do is the most important part of roguelikes.
Though I'll probably check it out regardless.
thats a great lil time killer
just dont expect to win without stocking a stasis room full of guns/meat
There's Elona+ (since the developer stopped working on the game, other people expanded on it) which adds a permadeath mode, among other things.
Although in the end, Elona doesn't really seem like it needs it, since it feels like a long-term sandbox kind of game.
Roguelikes are an old genre and rooted in simple utilitarian ASCII graphics, they're just coming from a different background where open-source software makes more sense than making money off software, solid game design and content is more important than flashy gimmicks.
@Dom was never released as open source but it was to retain some of the mystery behind the game's mechanics. He still lets developers use the code in commercial licenses and the game has always been completely free.
Another example of an uncorrupted indie community from the old school days is the I-F scene, still pumping out new stuff, always completely free, even developing their own software like Inform 7 to develop the IF games. It's a shame the indies of today aren't even aware of the genuinely good things still being done by the old guard, instead praising terrible twine shit and awful misguided imitations of story that the IF community had matured out of decades ago.
A roguelike on Steam is a little bit insulting, it represents everything shitty about modern indie games. Rogue Legacy, Risk of Rain, they're all cash-in jokes.
Did you even read it:
>Might be optional or have ways to cheat it
What I said is that that wording is precisely because Elona has it as optional but is still cnsidered a roguelike.
>also Notch used to help make the game until he left to make Minecraft.
That's not true, is it? How did he manage to do such a shit job of implementing everything that made Wurm special?
>A roguelike on Steam is a little bit insulting, it represents everything shitty about modern indie games.
While I don't disagree with your point of view, I do disagree with the sentiment behind it. Games incorporating "roguelike elements" have inherently more replay value than similar games lacking those elements, and that's an increasingly important thing I look for in a game. Rogue Legacy might not be a great game by its own merits but I'd rather play it than, say, Volgarr the Viking, because I know that every time I play will be different, if not exactly "new".
It's a lot better, but it's still going to be the same thing every time I play. Procedural generation is a tiny thing but it's still an important contributing factor in deciding whether or not I'm going to spend money on a game.
I haven't bought Rogue Legacy either.
the fact that a roguelike is being sold means it was made to appeal to more people so it could be sold instead of adding content or difficulty. There isn't a single roguelike for sale that adds puzzle elements to encounters or outside the box thinking when they could just use RNG to decide absolutely everything.
Most modern rogue-likes (Rogue Legacy included) just have the same 2-3 room variations affixed into different layouts.
Sure, it may not be "the same every time" but at some point it starts becoming predictable and trite.
Roguelite is a fucking retarded term since it essential means roguelike-like. How watered down are they going to go? Might as well call a metroidvania game a roguelite-like while we're at it.
OWH is a great game that I picked up for 80 cents.
Sure, I agree, but again there's no utility to your resentment towards the term.
"Rogue-like" has become so much of a common usage word by devs. who don't even remotely fulfill the Berlin interpretation, that there's simply no use in rebelling against it anymore, the majority of people who like the watered down versions have no objections to the term either.
So again, are you going to spazz out everytime you hear that term?
Definitions are based more in common usage than accuracy.
How many spazzing outs must ensue before you release the term has caught on and it won't be changed?
And nothing will change with you making a case of it every turn either, the term has caught on, the ones who find no issues with the term outnumbers those who do.
The purpose of words, and language, is to describe things, and the better a word describes the object, the better choice that word is. This is why it would be considered poor to write "The person didn't have much stuff in his house" compared to "Thomas's house was practically empty; it merely had a couch and a kitchen table".
"Roguelike" describes a specific type of game. When you start a roguelike, you should be able to expect multiple elements. However, since every indie dev and all their retarded fans have started abusing the term "roguelike" to mean just permadeath (with possible persistent elements) and procedural generation, the term is becoming meaningless. Words shouldn't lose accuracy over time.
I guess it's fine for words to take the same route as "literally" then? They've even changed the definition because of retards misuing it. How long until autism just means stupid?
>Definitions are based more in common usage than accuracy.
Yeah, I'd rather look up a definition in a dictionary, than ask the stupid masses to define something.
>How many spazzing outs must ensue before you release the term has caught on and it won't be changed?
Oh /rlg/ has no such problems.
It's just fun to make fun about plebs on /v/.
The purpose of words and language is communication, considering this, do you really find it odd to opt for the definition people agree most with?
Definitions in dictionaries have low technical accuracy quite a few times, I had someone quote a dictionary definition on "skinny" as "absent in fat and muscle", a word like "melancholy" is also technically different, dictionaries define it to mean less severe than depression when it's the other way around.
tl;dr: If you pull definitions from a dictionary you're a straight up pleb.
There's nothing wrong with experimenting with the game mechanics roguelikes are known for. Roguelikes themselves experiment heavily, in setting, design philosophy, etc. just look at the huge variety of "classic" RLs named in this thread.
The problem is that games like Rogue Legacy are just hollow. FTL is empty, it's poorly designed and extremely limited in content. They're interesting, but that interest is limited to the novel design, the twist on their gimmick. They don't bother doing actually creating a good game, with good levels, enemies, items, lore around the game. They take rogue-like complexity and bring it down to an arcade level of simplicity, which is perfectly fine, but then they leave it there. They don't actually perfect the now very simple arcade game like you're supposed to, they just say, well it's a cool concept!
Compare Legend of Grimrock to Ultima Underworld. Everyone plays LoG because it's in modern 3D, but it's very obvious Underworld is a great game and LoG is not. Its big selling point is that it reboots the style of classic genres, not that it matches the games of that genre in quality.
A good game is a good game, I'm most of us don't care if it's purist to the genre or breaks every rule as long as it's a good game. The problem is these Steam "rogue-lite" indie crap aren't good, they're just mediocre. You might spend more time in one than Volgarr the Viking, but time isn't the only qualifier. And even still, you're never going to spend more time in a steam rogue-lite than you would in a well made roguelike or a well made roguelite.
Procedural is a direction games should be headed in, but we need to first get out of the rut where it's just a gimmick. They're not even creative enough about it to look beyond the obvious examples; why aren't we seeing non-roguelike games that develop world maps with algorithmic simulations of a history of plate tectonics and weather systems like Seven Cities of Gold managed to do 30 years ago?
It's more of a roguelike inspired top down shooter. I especially like the clear interface andcrafting system
You guys are dumb. You're arguing linguistics 101 and forgot to take lit criticism. What you're discussing is the definition of genre, not the definition of words.
Words do change with time and all natural language is always first developed by "the stupid masses" and only later formalized into a grammar and dictionary. But genre is a critical categorization, even if the public decides to distort a classification to use loosely (like literally now just means exaggeration), in a more formal context, the terms are still useful (in a discussion on literature, literal means literal and figurative means figurative). The terms were developed for a reason, they have an express function that allows discussion to be made clear.
The only initial confusion is if this discussion is going to be casual and loose (this book is literally the best book ever) or somewhat more formal (its literal narrative might be simple but the figurative themes behind it are definitely not). Do you want to shoot the shit or remain intelligible and get an actual point across? If so, roguelike is roguelike and roguelite is roguelite. If not, RPG is "Technically" any role playing game, so an FPS is an RPG!!!
>He actually took anything higher than linguistics 101
Don't forget my onions, peasant boy.
The water/currency system, the way you identify items, and just the general feeling of the atmosphere is all very Dune-esque.
It's one of those things that's hard to actually quantify, but it's all very tight and polished feeling despite being pretty early in development.
Last I checked, the beta was still open to anyone, but it's been a while since I've played.
>roguelike or roguelite or roguelight
Rougelike and roguelite are two different things. Look at something like nethack or even dwarf fortress for roguelikes. The most well known aspects are permadeath and random generation of the dungeon, which have been pasted onto other genres to create the roguelite. What rogulites lack are the immense breadth of possibilities or the feeling of being in a "living world." The are other ways in which they differ, but these are the two that stick out to me.
I'm intrigued by the theme, but the playing screen and interface look so busy and convoluted...
Is it easy to get started with it or does it take a lot of wiki-reading?
It has the most interesting world and combat, but that's about it.
Remember, Dwarf Fort is not a "deep" game, it's a "wide" game.
There's lots of variety to the things you do, but it isn't fleshed out and nuance like Nethack or something with true depth.
Do be aware that it's a cancelled, unfinished project, and has a lot of grinding involved if you want to get very far.
But I still like it a lot.
My problem with DCSS is that the fun falls off tremendously after Lair.
After that, it seems to become one huge slog that takes way too long, such that by the time I get to Zot I can't wait to get it over with. As a result I've never done an all-rune game.
90% of late game DCSS is just standing around mashing the directional keys to chip away at 50 enemies covering you from all sides.
Especially in the Abyss/the hells/ziggurats/pandemonium.
There's no real danger because you're invincible, it's just boring waiting for their numbers to die down.
The most fun I ever had in DCSS was using wizard mode to play a wizard.
Reshaping the dungeon around me as I willed, conjuring whatever spells I desired, flying around as a fire- and icestorm-spewing golem...way more entertaining than another grind session.
I know what you mean, though I think the lair is too early. Depending how lucky you get I think the fun drops off around 2-5 runes.
I did a 15 rune run for completion sake (DrTm). Once I got Dragon form and certain spells, that sense of fear disappeared and the fun got sucked out.
I still think DCSS is a good game though, playing through ADOM right now so let's see how that goes.
I tried it out a few evenings ago, but it didnt feel 'finished enough' to play comfortable. You don't really have that much building options, so I lost interest pretty quickly. IMO it still needs some more gameplay refining and interface adjustment.
Dungeon of the Endless is a pretty good roguelike game, I've definitely gotten my money's worth out of it thus far
Been playing IVAN again lately. Play IVAN shit is fucking good nearly beat it last night, but got killed by a zombie veteran guard wielding a flaming adamant sword, while I was polymorphed into a Valpurium(hardest material) golem
I'm a big fan of "roguelike-like" games, like BoI, RoR, FTL, Dredmore, et cetera, but have never played real roguelike. Any recommendations for a good first game?
Not necessarily an easier one than average, just I have no idea to start with genre, but it seems like something I would like.
Start with Nethack. It's the quintessential roguelike.
Most other RLs are a variation on its central ideas, and it's a good all around introduction to the genera.
It's the basis to which most roguelikes are compared, so it's good to start with.
Teleglitch is more roguelike than others, so you can try that. If you already have tried it, or want to jump in deeper try doomrl. It's mechanics aren't as overwhelming as others, and it isn't done entirely in ascii.
Brogue is also a good starting point.
- It's very similar to the original Rogue game!
- It's not easy, you will die many a times!
- It's has a tidy and polished interface!
DCSS in my opinion is the easiest one to start with while still having a lot of depth, even if it does turn into a wacking simulator at the end game.
ToME but I don't like ToME personally.
Eh, jumping in blind may be suicidal but it teaches you the basics of roguelikes. Paranoia, identification, tiny fucking details, and death. The help button is also the best button because controls.
It might be cool to start with nethack, though.
There's a challenge that says nobody can beat it without spoilers of any kind.
If you do that successfully, you'd be a legend.
There is a guy on that list that claims to have beaten the game without spoilers after four years (I am surprised it wasnt over a decade).
Roguelike literally suggests that the game in question is like Rogue. The game bears far more in common with the Legend of Zelda, as Edmund intended. Hell, show it to someone who's never heard of it and they'll tell you the same thing.