>>254450427 Isn't that a universal problem, though? So relative to the other characters he shouldn't suck any more than before. And aren't people saying they reduced the landing lag since E3 based on the Robin trailer?
>>254451831 Not to mention the differences in frames, and the fact that Sakurai went to enough trouble to actually make her own character because of the different ways they use Falchion says a lot. She could be faster, but weaker. She could be exactly the same. She could be faster and stronger, etc. Way too many variables right now, especially if the competitive scene decides it wants to adopt custom movesets (Which I'm sure they will).
Lag seems to be a universal thing. The game could really use a reduction in it across the board. Outside of that the game is looking solid. The only other issue I have is characters are living a bit too long
>>254452361 And yet he wins no major tournaments outside of m2k, who is just insanely good at Melee. He's been singlehandedly holding Marth up high in Melee. Mark my words, in the next tier list he's going to fall.
>>254452537 I don't disagree with the lag thing, Lucina seems to be the only character not really effected by it, but you can only tell so much from trailers. Lucina has some very good landing cancels, and seems to be slightly faster than Marth, but not by much.
The issue with characters living too long is probably whats going to cause people go to back to Melee for EVO. I like Melee, but I would rather see something fresh honestly, trying to see them adapt more to how it is now, with all the new characters, get some variety in there at least.
But it is what it is, it wont detract from my enjoyment out of it.
>>254452886 Believe me when I say I'm a "jack of all trades" or Red Mage type. I always play a large variety of characters but I'm not truly great with any one. But don't you have at least one character that you gravitate to, even if it's just because you're a fan and forgetting tiers?
>>254453753 I don't mind that she isn't good, because I think she's just fun to play as. The best thing Sakurai could have done was get rid of that fucking transformation, and that's what he did. Aside from that, making her faster I suppose, it's her biggest weakness, but you can't have everything.
>>254454897 Maybe they'll patch it if there are any gigantic issues but I don't think they'll do like regular fighting games where every few months they change up the particulars of a shit ton of moves.
How do you know they won't? Do you have a quote from Sakurai saying they won't? They've been doing more internet stuff so I think it's a lot more likely that SSB4 would get balance patches, at least for the WiiU version
I wouldn't want them to do a bunch of DLC but I would be totally okay with an inkling as a DLC character. It's a potentially big new Nintendo IP and the timing of it was obviously such that it wouldn't have been able to be considered for Smash 4 when that began development.
>>254455535 Nintendo doesn't patch their games unless something game-breaking made it through their bug testing. I don't think Sakurai is the type who cares enough about the tourney scene to rebalance the game after its release, especially since it will take more than a year for the meta to properly develop.
>>254456060 Yeah, that's what I based most of my post on. It was too new to be in consideration, but they could consider for DLC. And as great as W101 is, it's not a Nintendo-developed foray into a new genre for them. Splatoon really does have the chops to be a new staple IP for the company.
>>254455884 maybe you should research before you speak http://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-how-smash-bros-wii-u3ds-came-to-be-not-opposed-to-dlc-patching-why-villagertrainer-are-in-more/
>Sakurai on patches for the new Smash Bros games… It is difficult to say at present, but rather obviously, we always try to keep the best balance. Nevertheless, I do not yet know if it will be really easy to patch these games once they will be released. >For example: you have a person with a patched version of the game, and another with a non-patched version. If these two people play together, do they meet no problems? We will have to do extensive research about it. >That said, I think the patches are an important tool to maintain the balance of a game, once this last released. As you surely already know, the reputation of some characters, who are considered weak or powerful, is something to which players are very interested on the internet. >And sometimes, you have to ask if these perceptions are correct, or if people simply to join a popular opinion and to follow the movement. We really want to make our characters each have their specificities, with statistics that compensate their strengths. >We want to highlight these individual characteristics, but at the same time, players must also be asked whether they accept the reputation of a character on the internet. This is something that we will also have to take into account when creating patches.
>>254456802 >you have a person with a patched version of the game, and another with a non-patched version. If these two people play together, do they meet no problems? We will have to do extensive research about it.
Why the fuck is nintedo so behind on the times Has he never played an online game, EVER?
WHY DOESNT MY FAVORITE CHARACTER PLAY LIKE HE USED TO IN THE OLD GAME WITH COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ROSTER BALANCING AND SYSTEM MECHANICS!!!?? WHY CANT I JUST USE THIS ONE CHARACTER IN A ROSTER OF DOZENS!? I DONT WANT TO PLAY OTHER CHARACTERS OR NEW ONES I WANT THE SAME ONE FOR 13 YEARS !!
>>254457167 I don't think he means online. Like, you haven't played with the latest patch, but you go to your friend's house and he's been practicing with the latest patch for a week. You're at an immediate disadvantage and have to pick up on the changes real fast. Don't forget that Nintendo tends to think of local multiplayer a lot more than other devs.
>>254457167 i think he meant the 3ds version, which it would be a problem with if some kid isnt allowed to use the internet or something like that the way they used to do it was to make the newer version of the game overwrite the older one, but that seems like it might be an issue with the way the 3ds updates work and potentially just the sheer size of something like that
And not to mention the way he's balancing characters
>some characters are better at team games while others solo >so in other words nothing is balanced because some will do better in one mode and we balance that out by them not doing well in another mode
>>254457918 http://nintendoenthusiast.com/article/competitive-smash-bros-wii-u-3ds/ >Since I had only played the game minimally at that point, I didn’t agree, but that gave me motivation to go back and test her. Turns out Sakurai’s assistants were certainly on the right track–Samus is very strong now.
Balancing for 4 player matches is retarded because it's near impossible to balance
There are too many variables and factors to account for there are almost limitless amounts of potential multiplayer matchups that you would have to account for in order to have it balanced, same with trying to balance for items (which favor fast characters)
Think about how many people you would have to get together with equal skill with specific charcters to test each one and the amount of testing you would have to do before tweaking.
You balance for 1 v 1 and then just accept that multiplayer cannot be balanced but hopefully if a character is on equal footing in a 1v1 setting they should be able to manage in a FFA or Team game.
The only thing that I can see that could be broken for multiplayer are charge attacks, since in a multiplayer match you can probaly sneak away to charge your attack up while during 1v1's you have to knock an opponent far away or kill them before you could charge up a samus blast or a dk punch
>>254458579 If a character I love is changed, even if its in a worse way, I try to adapt and learn. But that's just me, if someone wants to stop using a character because of a change I don't really mind, as long as they can keep having fun with the game.
>>254458579 I main my character based on the moveset >Because if the character you like gets changed for the worse, why still even use him or her? It's unlikely that the entire moveset would be totally overhauled between games, but yeah I'd easily dump my bitch for my backup if Sakurai ruined her moveset
>>254458924 >"I refuse to believe Sakurai is competent enough to know who's the best" >Well, here are some pros that can confirm that Samus is indeed much more powerful so Sakurai obviously does knows what he's talking about >WOOW SAKURAI DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO BALANCE IF YOU CAN TELL THAT SAMUS IS BETTER SO EASILY
Haha, holy shit. Are you going to say he doesn't know how to balance because after a few matches we can confirm that Bowser is a lot better than he used to be as well?
Irrational Sakurai haters will always jump through some mental loop to shit on him. The Meta Knight situation is the only instance where something went incredibly wrong with balancing. "But Melee's character viability" There are a bunch of viable characters in Melee, even if the scene is overrun with space animals.
if that's the case why even do anything? I'm not asking for perfection but why not just give everyone an OHKO move that they can use immediately? and just for fun make everyone have different speeds at which they use it
who gives a shit it's a party game why not just have be ccccrrrrrraaaaaaaaazzzyyy
just because it's hard to balance doesn't mean it shouldn't be as close to balanced as possible retard
>>254459292 >Gee, that's sounds just like, I dunno, A FUCKING PARTY GAME. >Just give it a rest already. Smash will never be "balanced," no matter how much you want it to be. Or you could possibly stop being retarded for a fraction of a second and realize that just because something isn't a serious game doesn't mean it should be broken and imbalanced. If it's to the point where people start complaining when someone picks Fox or Metaknight regardless of the level of play, that's when you have a problem.
In reality no game is to be taken seriously either way unless you're making a substantial amount of money from it, but you still have people taking multiple games "seriously" and "practicing" in them even though there is realistically no payoff at all. To say a game should be an unbalanced mess just because "it's a party game" shows how ignorant you are about both game design and human psychology.
At first yes I assumed that he played with some shitty people and he just happened to be winning the most with samus and it was a slightly subtle thing he was commenting on that would probably get turned once other people got a hold of the game but if some people can play a few matches and immediately tell someone is OP then yeah that's a shitty job of balancing a game
>>254459920 No. The point is, you can't have 100% balance unless every character plays exactly the same. It's a very difficult balancing act trying to make sure all characters, under all circumstances, especially in fucking smash bros, are usable and fair.
>>254459604 >"But Melee's character viability" There are a bunch of viable characters in Melee, even if the scene is overrun with space animals. This. There was a fucking Pikachu of all characters in top 8 this year. Even if it were only 10 - 12 characters being viable in Melee, it's a heck of a lot better than the 5 you see dominating almost the entire roster in Brawl.
Makes sense although if that was the case I don't know why we have the
"have you ever made a game?" quote when someone offered to help test the game. Obviously he wasn't talking about programming sakurai, just pushing the characters to the upper limits so that you can see what may need to be changed so we don't get another meta knight. it was funny though
>>254460327 what's funny is the fact that fox and falco are really good on accident (who the fuck would have thought that letting them jump out of their shine is a good idea back before everyone knew about the shit they can pull with that attack) and marth is as high as he is because of the fact that he happens to counter fox and falco well. The only predictably overpowered character in melee would be sheik because she has ridiculously low lag on attacks and really good grab game
>>254460620 No kidding. Sheik has the greatest spread when it comes to matchups in her favor. I think she also chaingrabs something like ten characters total, most of them placed near the bottom of the tiers.
>>254459675 Fast characters dominate comp smash because of the melee mentality. 4's mechanics are favoring neutral speed though. The difference is similar to Street Fighter 2 and Street Fighter 4. Offense has it's place, but now defense does too.
>>254460874 >Aside from not being able to transform into Zelda, Sheik feels a lot like she did in Melee with a twinge of her Brawl self, plus some new toys. Overall, the landing lag on her aerials felt like the least out of everyone’s. Her movement was very fluid and her combos were plentiful–definitely a favorite of mine. >Forward air: This is one of the least significant changes that I’m bothering to list, but the strong forward air is back! Kind of. The move comes out INSTANTLY, faster than ever before, and the front tip has a strong hitbox. It’s not as powerful as it is in Melee, but it’s no joke. Other parts of the move are much weaker, but it has little landing lag and can be used in combos very effectively. >Up air: This move is no longer one strong kick upwards–it’s a spinning kick like Samus’s and Greninja’s, with a strong kick that sends opponents flying at the end. >Neutral B: Shooting needles from the air no longer has lag upon landing, just like in Melee. This is one of the most significant improvements/restorations Sheik could have possibly received! Now Needle Storm is a much more potent move–you can use it while falling to lock your opponents in their shield, then follow up with a grab or another attack. >Side B: Sheik’s chain now has Burst Grenades attached to the end. Releasing B makes Sheik pull the pin, causing the grenade to explode. There’s a suction effect that drags opponents in, making them easier to hit. Again, a vast improvement over her old lackluster chain, and looking like a really good move. Unfortunately, I didn’t think to test whether this move would tether the edge like it does Brawl or not. >Down B: Rather than transforming, Sheik now leaps through the air like Zero Suit Samus with her new down B, the Bouncing Fish. Making contact with this move causes her to jump again, away from her target. This vastly improves Sheik’s ability to get back to the stage once knocked off.
>>254460874 I'd be surprised if it isn't more than 10 she can chaingrab semi-floaty characters and the fastfallers get fucked anyways because of jab reset or tech chasing add on guaranteed flow chart combos that include simple attacks like tilts and aerials (that get autocancelled really fucking easily) give her decent killing options both on the ground and in the air and you have a good fucking character that can still compete with something as ridiculous as fox
>>254459091 Actually, it was the removal of hitstun that killed him. His game plan is all about following up, which wasn't possible in Brawl unless you were Meta Knight. Smash 4 has a lot more potential for follow ups. We need to see some Falcon gameplay before we say anything.
>>254461119 This. And fuck anyone who says its a bad thing. All it means is that more characters are viable. Sorry that you're not getting your shitty MvC2 Magneto attack-heavy bullshit that melee had, but most people don't want that. Some people like playing a more cerebral game.
>>254453283 >64 Samus was beyond shit >Melee Samus was good >Brawl Samus was shit >Nintendo claims Samus was the strongest character in kerfluffle I can't handle this emotional roller coaster anymore At least she's fun in PM
I have a question for you "competitive smash" lol players. You guys bitched about time-outs and general match length from Brawl's slower campy playstyle. However, you guys also used fucking retarded rules for the game. 8 minutes on the clock per match? Four fucking stocks? You have no right to complain about campy playstyles when your matches have 4 fucking times the time limit of literally all other competitive fighters and when you have twice as many lives as any round in another fighter. So why the fuck are you complaining about the alleged removal of "offensive play" and making the game campy when you have such completely retarded rules that support defensive play?
Fighting games aren't MOBAs, people don't just "decide" how to play a game through mob mentality. The options and tools people are given are what decides the game, if it rewards nothing but offense you get brute force, if it rewards defense you get endless camping until one party is able to punish for a mistake.
What you essentially want at this point, is instead of the "MvC2 Magneto" you want the "MvC2 Storm" run out the timer tactic. Ike isn't left unpicked because "melee mentality" anyone who believes that has no fucking clue what they're talking about. In a game with already limited mobility, and animations that can leave you open through lag, why would someone pick a character that has EVEN more of these? It's really not that difficult to figure out if you actually PLAY the games.
>>254462439 No, what we want is something like Street Fighter IV, where the matchups are not as bad all across the board. Because fast, offensive, combo-heavy characters aren't the only ones that matter.
>>254462734 You seem to think the matchups aren't as bad because you probably see "mid tier" characters topping at tourneys. Realize that you also have to factor in matchups, where people are in pools, how good other people are with matchups etc. Just because you see a 3 - 7 working out for the lower tier character doesn't mean it's suddenly equal. Otherwise Pikachu and Yoshi would be high tier in melee now. Also see >>254463041 like I said, stop getting your information from videos or forums.
>people actually wanting l-cancel back Fucking why? It has no reason. If reduced landing lag was necessary, just reduce it. Don't make it a fucking input. And it doesn't even NEED to be reduced. Lots of other games have plenty of landing lag from aerial attacks. Just depends on how it works with the rest of the mechanics.
>>254461154 >Down B: Rather than transforming, Sheik now leaps through the air like Zero Suit Samus with her new down B, the Bouncing Fish. Making contact with this move causes her to jump again, away from her target. This vastly improves Sheik’s ability to get back to the stage once knocked off.
>>254463301 Where did I say it was totally balanced? Characters still have bad matchups in SF4, but it's not even fucking remotely close to how it is in games like Melee where it invalidates basically 90 percent of the cast almost entirely because of the mechanics. Which the retarded community wants to come back for some fucking reason.
>Falcon will never be good again because he depends on the physics, hitstun, speed and grab game to be good >Physics in Smash 4 are weird, hitstun is there but you can never follow up with anything because everyone goes so far, and he may have dash speed but it doesn't matter if the rest sucks, not to mention grabs are also fucking weird and godlike powerful for some reason like in Smash 64
You know what? I'll hang around some competitive Melee players I know and squeeze in some Melee matches with them using Falcon. I'm half-decent at it, it should be fun to go full speed with Falcon. I'm gonna have a little personal sendoff for him, because I know he will never be good in Smash 4 or in any future Smash game ever again. I'm no competitive player, I just like to go fast when using him.
Welcome to the nerf zone, Marth mains. Enjoy your stay, but don't feel too bad. You could always switch to Lucina or some other stupid newcomer.
>>254463565 >Obligatory worthless passive aggressive post Not him, but you just tried to deduce the reasoning of the entire meta based on a quote M2K said in the Smash Documentary. You made a retarded post, so you deserved a retarded response.
>>254463523 Offensive play can be helped in other ways. And if anything needs help in Smash, its the ground approach. Characters like Little Mac are shit because even with the way it works right now, air approach is still dominant. >>254463561 Buzzwords
>>254462147 >>254463442 I'm going to assume you aren't trolling so I'll give you an honest response. First off, Smash isn't a traditional fighter, stop comparing that timer to Smash's timer, it's fucking dumb. Secondly, people didn't hate Brawl because it's matches took longer, they hated the game because it punished all forms offense (among other reasons). Smash's rules are fluid, if people felt there was a problem, they'd adjust. Melee used to be five stocks, it was cut to four. Brawl was cut to three. PM is having a debate about whether it should be 4 or 3.
I'm curious as to why you think Brawl's overly defensive gameplay has anything to do with the Melee's ruleset. Melee can be played fast. Hell, even Brawl can be played fast. Was your first introduction to competitive Smash a Hungrybox vs Armada set?
>>254463856 You're a fucking idiot for passing a judgement like that from literally seeing NOTHING of Falcon's play. Especially when the game isn't even out. Especially about the topics that are MOST likely to change. Especially by trying to compare it to a past game as if that's the only way it can be done.
>>254463940 You mean no approach at all is still dominant. Approaching and offensive play needs all the help it can get. Air play will always beat ground play because you're spending the majority of your time in the air, whether that is being launched off, trying to recover, chasing someone down. Reducing aerial landing lag is an easy way to make approaching safer and help offensive playstyles in general. You don't even need to map it to a button, just cut it across the board.
>>254452246 >and the fact that Sakurai went to enough trouble to actually make her own character because of the different ways they use Falchion says a lot
I still think this is a sort of bullshit thing for Sakurai to say. Marth doesn't ever appear in Awakening anyway, so there's no way to compare how Lucina and Marth use Falchion. Sure, you could argue that Marth appears in the DLCs, but he uses Lucina's model in those.
Hell, the fact that Lucina uses Marth's animations in Smash is makes the whole "they fight differently" thing even more dubious.
>>254464001 None of that meant anything. Just because it's not a "traditional fighter", whatever the fuck that means, doesn't mean an overlong timer or overlong rounds in general have a place. Games like Vampire and SF are both games you'd consider "traditional" but couldn't be further apart from each other. Yet they use the same timer. What about series like MvC? Or shit, what about Tekken? Short rounds are a staple of the genre.
>>254464750 So what you want Smash to be played with a 99 second timer? Because that shit ain't happening. If you're angry at Smash taking too much time at your pressure FGC events go complain to your TOs.
>>254464447 >Air play will always beat ground play Because you want to think of the game like Melee, where aerials had a functional role the same as ground moves. Some characters like Falcon literally rely on almost nothing BUT aerials. People need to realize it's gonna be a different type of game than melee, and that that is not a bad thing inherently.
I agree that it's way too early to judge like that, but I have no hope for Sakurai's team to make the right choices with character balance. Brawl traumatized me, so blame my autistic judgement on that.
>>254463754 The reason you don't understand it is because you don't understand how any metagame works. Unless a game is INCREDIBLY unbalanced or everyone has essentially the same moves / tools, there's no way that at a high level more than half of the roster will still be viable. You're talking about physics making a large portion unplayable but what you want is a game where 80% of the cast is viable which is fucking impossible because you'd have to balance way too much between different match types, and different amounts of players.
Not only that but the "less offensive" installment of Smash had even LESS of the cast usable than the previous, people are just stuck on Fox-Only memes so they don't notice anything that isn't Yoshi or a character in the ABSOLUTE bottom tiers. Certain games center around certain mechanics, and characters or weapons that use those mechanics well are the "strong characters" you can't just magically have every character in the roster balanced at the exact level, and if you do then you'll most likely have JUST one or two that end up being broken or advantagous, best case scenario you end up with a bland roster that don't feel unique to each other at all.
Long story short, even if the new SSB was PERFECTLY in between melee and brawl, or make it a mix of rush-downs and turtling like you propose, it's not going to magically open up the roster and make everyone top tier, eventually there will be characters who can do both the best, or do the most important one the best, and they'll be the ones who are "valid".
>>254463790 The fact that she has her mask as a taunt is at least a good sign that some of her animations are unique. At the VERY LEAST, she should have different taunts, victory animations, and custom moves.
>>254464918 And this little comment meant even less. You're not even attempting to argue the case for the longer rounds. I know the answer already; you only do it because that is what has always been done in Melee's past. Melee fans abhor any kind of change at all for some reason.
>>254465108 4 stocks balances the game between rewarding a player for being ahead and the possibility of a comeback. 8 minutes gives the game enough time to develop even in a slow matchup while letting the players play in a style they want, while still giving the game an upward time limit.
And yes, we do it because that's the way it's always been done. Because it works.
>>254464795 I really liked what I had seen so far. I can tell you right now that Melee fans will bitch about it though, because punishment is a lot more prominent, and you can't just fly all over the fucking place throwing aerials out. The increased hitstun is sweet though and I think that it's all the game needs, really. It'll get shit from the old hardcore Melee fans though for not having the same meta development though.
>>254464795 I only played the Wii U version, and played as Megaman the 2 rounds I was allowed to play. It was pretty fun! Megaman has an awesome moveset, and I can't wait to play as him again. I digged everything about it.
>>254460743 I never thought I'd have an actual "mage" to play as in SSB, the closest I had was Ness and Zelda. But Ness never really felt like a mage too much even in his own game, that was more of Paula's thing. But when I saw there's a character that uses tomes I was fucking ecstatic, I can't wait to try him out.
>>254465059 Realize that all you did was add hostility to the thread because of the simple usage of slang. Why not actually contribute to conversation instead of trying to instigate, faggot.
>>254464226 Oh! I didn't notice that, thanks I would welcome an increased recovery on missles as long as they were buffed to compensate. I know no one likes to be on the other side of the Morrigan Soul Fist stuff but Brawl's missles were just awful. It was only a reliable KO at like 200% or something stupid like that. Screw attack as a finisher sounds pretty rad for combos. I've seen in one of the Directs that her up-smash also has some kill potential now which is exciting for me. I'll miss that sex kick, though. But I guess as long as I still have that back air I'll be happy. The heels are too real.
>>254465374 Because you never try anything else. What gives players a chance for a comeback is the Best of X system that Smash ALREADY uses. Having more stocks and more time literally just makes the game longer. It's a placebo effect at the absolute best.
Sure Ike's competitive scene is shit, but I'm no competitive smasher and when I play my buddies I fucking wreck with Ike. Ike is so fucking awesome. So easy to lure your opponent into a false sense of security and then fucking slam them with your nuclear ass-cleaver of a sword. Holy shit landing blows with Ike is so satisfying. Right up there with Falcon Punch and suicide drops.
>>254465932 I'm not complaining to you. It's pretty simple, I'm just asking why you think it should stay the same since you seem to be defending it, and I'm asking you to do so without relying on "because that's how it's been done".
>>254466467 There have been movements to lower it to 3 stock/5 minutes for years. Tradition can be stupid sometimes. 1 minute per game in the grand scheme of things doesn't make enough of a difference for anyone to bother switching.
>>254466319 >I find that the only people who dislike it are the people it parodies. If anything, I've found that the people who mock it are just sad fucks trying to convince themselves that they're not beta.
The other people who say it are the christians /pol/.
>>254466467 honestly a 6 minute time limit with 4 stocks sounds pretty reasonable to me While we're comparing time limits we should consider the fact that in melee 1 game is equivalent to 1 set of Best of 3 games in street fighter If you add up the seconds that leads a max tiem of 5 minutes for SF. Arguably melee is a bit slower simply because it is much easier to run around an opponent in it (consider the fact that characters have double jumps and the fact that unlike SF in melee characters aren't constantly facing each other; if you get knocked off the stage you need to spend time trying to get back. some characters especially samus tend to be kind of slow during this part of the game). So considering that a 6 minute time limit sounds reasonable and should not affect any matchups other than the slowest ones Honestly nobody really cares because this current time limit works just fine, people don't often time each other out and timing someone out and winning by percent is generally considered a pretty lame way to win (at least in melee, certainly when playing friendlies) tl;dr version: melee has a few differences that make it a bit campier than a game like SSF, a 6 minute time limit might be worth looking into but nobody really cares beacuse people rarely get timed out anyways
>>254466721 Actually, the entire sentence structure of the post was a horrific mess in general. Not to mention the usage of the term "tourneyfags" in general, and opening the post with greentext of all things.
>>254468512 >Combos >not in smash 4 Are you stupid or something? Sheik already has several confirmed 0 to 70 ones. I hate melee shitbags. I fucking hate them. They outright lie just to hate the new smash.
>>254469290 We haven't even SEEN Falcon yet. And I don't see how debating about things like land-lag and things that are the MOST likely to change before release even matters. It's literally pointless.
I mean realistically, they won't be THAT much stronger and it has the potential to shake up some match ups that are normally fucking tough to deal with.
The main question would be would they allow you to see what the other person's special moves are and let you change yours at will, or if you have to have them set up before going into the match so there isn't any 'counter picking' specials going on.
Marth being a top competitive pick mainly stems from when Fox was the go to pick for many situations. Against space animals Marth can WRECK them, and when they were the main characters played with the occasional dabbling in a few other characters (Not like that now a days of course. You have a bit of a varied lineup now as people are STILL discovering hidden potential in characters)
>>254470485 >Because it could give the loser some really strong power. its literally one attack >game 2 like I said they would do it like normaly tournament rules the loser chooses the stage then the winner selects his character (add move selection to this part) then the loser can select his counterpick
>>254448128 Could be worse. You could have spent the last decade maining bottom tier, only to have a glimmer of hope with Project M, before crashing down to reality when you realize he isn't coming back
Well anon. He won't be coming back, but Project M's lifeline will really, really depend on how well Smash 4 hits home with the competitive community. PM has already been embraced and is shown alongside Melee constantly.
If Smash 4 becomes a success then you'll see a lot of people move there, at least for a good year or 2 at least. If it isn't embraced competitively within a fairly short time frame then Project M will continue to be embraced, with a competitive scene being small on Smash 4 and surviving for a few years. Brawl still manages to survive competitively, with a very, very small amount of people. Hell N64 still has a scene, albeit a very tiny one.
>tfw your main is perma-confirmed for Smash >tfw you're going to wreck shit whether he's top or bottom tier >tfw preliminary reports by and large state he's looking better than ever Four games in a row. WHO /OG/ HERE?
>>254473082 Why even bother getting excited? The competitive community's already banned that shit. And for good reason, too. Lord knows it'll be unfair to expect a fireball but get a fire orb instead, completely fucking up your approach and leaving you at a disadvantage.
>>254466173 >Ike is so fucking awesome. So easy to lure your opponent into a false sense of security and then fucking slam them with your nuclear ass-cleaver of a sword. Holy shit landing blows with Ike is so satisfying This man fucking knows. God I love fighting for my friends.
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