Dragon Quest is pretty boring as a series. Combat is always the same, monsters are always the same and silent protags are weird in a game that has characters that actively talk to you. Stories are also never really interesting .Something that SMT does way better while keeping basic gameplay intact.
Played some DQ games and enjoyed them for what they were but I'm pretty much done with the series.
So they experimented a bit with X and XIII and a lot of people didn't care for it, so what?
XII was incredibly open and XV promises to be very open. I'd rather they experiment and find what works and what doesn't than force feed me the same, unchanging thing for the series' lifespan because they're afraid that some fans may not like it.
>>256006535 >Dragon Quest is pretty boring as a series. Cool opinion bro >Combat is always the same That's wrong. >monsters are always the same Series always have mascot and reoccurring monsters. >silent protags are weird in a game that has characters that actively talk to you. No they aren't. >Stories are also never really interesting Oh more opinions >Something that SMT does way better and shit ones at that.
Also funny how a SMT fag is listing reusing monsters as a fault.
>>256005225 Oh fuck, this again. You wouldn't know this, but making a full, new RPG gameplay experience that's GOOD is super hard. FF attemps this every installment, with varying success, while DQ typically sticks to one type of gameplay they know is successful. Now which is better: fresh, new gameplay that's not always successful, or the same old systems, but have been successful for years? THAT is the real question
I find that they appeal to different demographics and tastes, which is a good thing that OP can't seem to recognize. There's definitely room for a little risk as well as safe consistency. I'd say that risk is definitely welcomed more than ever given how stagnation was one of the reasons that led to the shrinking of the Japanese game industry.
>>256005737 Well no, reinventing water makes sense though. At least it made sense to me, because by saying "reinvent water" you are stating that each Final Fantasy always feel the need to have the best graphics of the century, even if they have to sacrifice other aspects of the game to do so.
>>256010110 >Most FF games have different systems like Jobs, the Sphere Grid and the Materia system HOLY SHIT.
You mean like how Dragon Quest had a Job system, weapon skill system,etc You mean like how Dragon transformations are different in all 5 Breath of Fire games? You mean like how EVERY fucking jrpg series has different background skill learning systems?
Why do you stupid ass FF fanboys think this means FF4-9 are not same damn combat?
>>256009182 Are you really touting the one open area, which is utterly fucking meaningless in the grand scheme of things, as there's nothing there to do besides those shitty half-assed hunts, and then it's back to corridors until you beat the game.
>>256010634 I'm waiting for people to give me a good reason to. The title art has already put me off from the start, but I'd give it a chance if people could back the game up for having a compelling story/set of characters.
>>256011417 Sales never died out, though. Plus the earlier games had tons of ports to other systems. I do think the Squeenix merge reduced the release frame for Dragon Quest games, but they already manage to hit big numbers in Japan.
>>256010847 This all depends on what you consider to be a compelling story. DQ tends to stick with the "ancient evil trying to destroy the world" bits (although they do love their "sudden tweest" moments too, like the ending to 3, the secret ending to 8, etc) instead of trying to write some 'critique of modern society' or 'gaming's citizen kane' whatever the fuck. But that doesn't mean the stories are bad. They're usually very well written, they just also happen to be archetypal fantasy stuff.
As for characters, aside from the hero (which is almost always silent, rarely has a default name, and occasionally has a fixed gender) the DQ series goes back and forth between set characters and create-your-own characters. But FWIW the most popular games in the series almost always have the strongest cast of characters (4, 5, 8, etc).
Not sure what you're really looking for here though.
People who bitch about JRPGs always bitch about the same things and always associate everything with FF. Many JRPGs try to distance themselves from FF as a result but rarely do they excel at it and a lot of them just go unheard of in the West.
Grinding is non-existent in most JRPGs outside of DQ and stuff like Disgaea. A lot of them no longer use turn based combat anymore, even though its not that bad. Not every modern JRPG is Neptunia or Persona.
>>256013075 You know, I could just play DQ X, oh wait that's right Nintendo region locks every fucking thing. Most of my gaming is done on the road, on my 3DS (sorry forgot to list that) and Vita. DS games play like shit on a 3DS. I mean to be fair I did forget about emulation because it's 4 in the goddamn morning, so I'll give that a try once I have time to play games. Been playing Injustice and FF Tactics (for the road) alot lately so I'll play DQ after I get through Injustice.
>>256013464 Except for the thousands of people that got a free copy of DW1 for renewing Nintendo Power.
I wish Enix just left the advertisement for DQ to Nintendo back in the 80's. They most likely could have kept the series going instead of the fizzling out and randomly coming back 10 years later and being shocked it's only selling half a million.
Dragon quest is dead to Square Enix in the US. It doesn't sell millions with lines going on for blocks when a new game is released like in Japan. This is why we will never get another dragon quest game ever again and isntead we'll get more Lightning.
>>256013871 I think you misunderstood when I said Nintendo region locks. I've never tried it on a PC, but I'd imagine Nintendo has a lock on it. May as well just try to play Phantasy Star Online 2. I could get that on Vita in a snap.
>>256014046 I was damn disappointed with DQIX. The main storyline was very dull and the postgame content was little more than running through similar dungeons or grinding up other classes. And I bought the game when it came out too, so I was hardly not supporting them.
Was 4-6 any better in that regard, or was it the same sort of "go to town, hear sad story, resolve issue" for every location? Because while the little stories can be nice, it gets very boring when that's the only thing there is to do.
>>256013871 Actually the IP ban is lifted. People are guessing it has something to do with the 3DS. Like the ban somehow has an effect on the 3DS version. >>256013530 Outside of DQ 1&2 you never need to grind in a Dragon Quest game. The series is all about exploring and finding your way around a giant world. So you easily get lost and while lost you fight more enemies than you normally should. But because you are not focusing on battling you don't think about the battles since they always go by fast. That's the secret to DQ. The only reason you need to grind is you are replaying it and know where to go next. Or reading a guide which you should never need for Dragon Quest.
As a long time fan, I don't see how Dragon Quest isn't dead and in the ground.
I've been playing them for years, and DWVII on the PS1 is one of my personal favorite games, but the franchise has never and will never rise to Final Fantasy's quality.
It just won't. It's too boring. It's afraid. It plays it safe. Its games are always a little bit rough or frustrating in one silly way or another. It doesn't care as much for graceful design, or taking risks, and it doesn't have a lavish budget if it wanted to. It's themes aren't as complex and its goals aren't as grand.
If you think any Dragon series entry has approached a game like Final Fantasy VII or Final Fantasy IX in terms of quality, you're wrong. It's not an argument, you don't have any ground to stand on.
Not that I'm saying the Dragon series is shit, because I'm not, but the cool thing to do these past few years has been to downplay the Final Fantasy classics as much as possible, and it needs to stop.
>>256014662 >Final Fantasy VII >Quality But VII is shit. Why are you using it for an argument? Unless you're trying to sneakily say that Dragon Quest is the superior series and the entire rest of your post was just in jest.
>>256014349 I was disappointed with IX as well, and I'm a big fan of the series. The story wasn't very interesting or compelling, the writing was weaker than usual, the lack of random encounters made it feel less DQ-like, the create-a-party had no personality, and overall the game just seemed like one giant "but look how much you can griiiiiiiind!" jerkoff.
By contrast, the story's of 4 and 5 are some of the best in the series IMO. 4 is a set of stories-within-a-story, where the first 4 chapters are self contained adventures with fixed characters, but then in chapter 5 the hero emerges and you collect your band of heroes from the characters you built (and came to love) in the first 4 chapters, and your merry band descends into hell to punish evil. 5 is an incredibly ambitious bit tale about the heroes entire life, from birth to fatherhood.
>>256015146 The problem with IX is that it seem like it was just their prototype for what they planned on doing which was X. It still have charm and enjoyable to me. But the game doesn't feel like a mainline game. Like how FFXI doesn't feel like a mainline FF game.
Daily reminder that there were RPGs on the SNES with no random encounters or turn-based combat, and therefore every RPG with those things released afterwards has no excuse, and is automatically a shit game.
>playing DQVIII >the inn and the place you resurrect your characters are in separate places
>>256017370 Random encounters serve a point you know. They are meant to be a game of chance. Do you risk taking that step to get the chest? You see the steps leading up but there's a door there. Do you risk taking the extra moves to see what's behind it? Stuff like that. Where each step could be your downfall.
>>256018251 How. How How can you build something if you're not building upon anything If you're always trying to reinvent the wheel either hit or miss taking into account that if you miss this is the gameplay you have to deal with for 50+ hours why not just getting the core mechanics right, why having to make flashy combat systems that go nowhere, why?
>There are only so many ways to fucking make gameplay before you are adding pointless, mindless gimmicks that are universally reviled. >In all honesty gameplay hit it's plateau a long time ago No.And fuck you for even thinking something like that. Like holy shit I'm screencapping this post for future use because its so awful.
>>256019345 Mang you're talking about the depth of a puddle while defending DQ, which might be the most simplistic jrpg ever made.
>>256019804 An FMV budget sink with the depth of a puddle is way worse than a homely game with the depth of a puddle. At least one of them has its expectations set up and actually conveys something during its execution, and the other is a Final Fantasy game.
>>256014662 And yet I was a Final Fantasy fan up til FFX and still find DQ8 way more addictive than FF9 my first JRPG, childhood nostalgia couldn't even beat how fun it was and how easily it drew me in. DQ games may not be great to play all the games for some but playing one of them for the first time is fucking orgasmic.
DQ keeps the same battle system but refines it, FF should (or should've started a long time ago) start doing this.
Not to say every DQ game is outright better than the last in every respect. While DQ8 had excellent graphics and production values, even DQ3 beats it out in terms of core battle/party building gameplay.
>>256014046 > This is why we will never get another dragon quest game ever again No, it's because Square is afraid that Enix's baby will dominate in the west and the east, leaving their lil baby alone.
DQIX sold really well and Nintendo would market DQ games on 3DS but Square doesn't let it happen.
>>256020832 And what do they bring to the table, anon? What do they actually bring to the table? You're telling me you'd prefer a flashy game that reinvents itself all the time with the depth of a puddle and I'm telling you I'd prefer a modest game that refines its core components with the depth of a puddle as well. The only problem is that one of these two opinions is WRONG and the other one is RIGHT. Protip: The one that's right ismine
>>256005225 I love both Dragon Quest and FF series, but does anyone else feel that Dragon Quest becomes very monotonous? Not in a bad way, it's still very fun, it's just that I feel when i play DQ for extended periods of time I kinda just fall into a groove where my brain goes on autopilot and I'm like run around, kill monsters, talk to some peeps, repeat. I felt this way with DQIX and FFXIII especially. I remember having a fun time with those games but my entire playing experience seems to be like a vague haze in my mind.
>>256021241 >And what do they bring to the table, anon? They look nice. You act as if they were a problem of any kind. Sounds like jealousy because your favorite JRPG series has to use ingame grafics for all of its cinematics.
And yes. I like me some new games. I dont need the same shit over and over again. Not with JRPGs. Not with most games. Especially not for 10+ games in a row. Stagnation is a bad thing.
Refinements my ass. A series that evolves at tectonic plates speed like Pokemon manages to refine its gameplay and interface faster and better than DQ.
>>256021547 DQIX is just a boring game overall. I don't think it has anything to do with the series itself becoming monotonous. IX was the first Dragon Quest game I've played and I hated it. I checked out the other games later and had way more fun with them.
>>256021076 Maybe in FF15, all the recent ones have been hallways that steadily change its look as you go on.
You got me on the romance thing now that I think about it but whenever I think of Final Fantasy it's about romance stories. All the FFs I've played were about love, All the DQs I've played have felt more like I was running around exploring an unknown land.
It may not be how you feel about it, but that's how I feel, don't like it, go fuck yourself.
>tfw getting to Dhoulmagus in DQ8 at like level 24 I don't wanna have to grind to beat this fucker but the lack of multi-target heals is killing me I've heard something about a bow that you can use to get full party heals but I got no idea where that is or how to alchemize it and I'm too much of a fuck to use a guide
>Downloaded PS1 and PS2 emulators >Have FF IX and DQ VIII >Decide to play FF IX first >all that AP grinding >great game otherwise >at disc 3 and don't feel like finishing it but I might because I wasted lot of time already
I've never understood what the appeal of the Dragon Quest series is supposed to be. I enjoyed the first one back in the day, and IX had semi-decent gameplay, but the other games in the series I tried seemed to lack any redeeming qualities.
I'm not a big fan of Final Fantasy as a whole either, but FF games do at least occasionally excel in some areas.
>>256022271 DQ are so well rounded-up that to get what the hoopla is about you need real investment, not as much investment as a text-based adventure novel but a small effort from your side nonetheless.
>>256022072 FFX was fun for a bit but that shit felt like it was constantly pushing me in one direction, something that did not feel like an adventure to me and I was like 13 at the time. Shit got so boring I actually stopped playing for a bit.
>>256022396 But it did change. Every one has something different to the mix. It just kept the Wizardry system because Horii feels it's simple enough that anyone can understand it. And anyways shouldn't the focus be the story anyways? FF likes to be more handholdy as of late it seems while Dragon Quest is still about giving small stories in each town that all adds to one big story. But you always had room to wonder and find random caves and the like in hoping for nice treasure.
>>256022110 >Labeling the three XIII games with a single score They're the most dramatically different games in the entire series, you can't really score them as a series. Lightning Returns feels like some game they reskinned to make an ending to the "series."
In case anyone didn't now it, Dragon Quest 8 is still one of the best most comfy games of all time, and I understand it emulates well. If you are bored or have not gamed for a while and you have a way of playing DQ 8 pls do so. Go for the EU version for best voices and god tier orchestral soundtrack
>>256023139 >Consistency isn't inherently positive >le call of duty epic comparison This is what reinventing the wheel kiddies actually believe And actually I do respect CoD's consistency of sticking to 60 fps even on consoles.
>>256023205 The story and feeling towards the world makes a RPG. That's why I put the idea of caves and handholding. As for straight story DQ3 defeats any story FF came up with. Go back as a kid and play DQ1 and 2 as you explore and learn about that world. Than play DQ3. Tell me that doesn't have the greatest story in JRPG history. As for the others DQ4 has amazing character development and you learn about your history and why you are so important to the history of the world. DQ5 you play the full life of a wondering guy. From birth to fatherhood. It's charming and heartrenching at times. DQ6 isn't all that wonderful in my mind but it's still interesting at times. DQ7 you are basically recreating the world. DQ8 goal to uncurse the castle you call home and help the princess that you love.
Yeah they are all more simple than FF titles but complex=/=good. Sometimes a super complex story is just trying to be complex to make it bigger than it already is. Personally I feel a sweet charming world with nice characters to travel with make a much better game than a game that tries to force a plot that you lost interest in.
>>256024249 Changing what, anon? What? Staples of a genre? Why? For what fucking purpose? It's all flashy, but it's still picking a command and watching it unfold, that's all it fucking is, even if you add combo limits or rythm minigames to the gameplay how can you say the changes FF makes to its battle sequences are not just cosmetic? In what way are they reinventing the genre staple of selecting an action? How can you praise a role playing game with shallow stat mechanics
>>256024220 >Find the magic doodads to kill the evil demon man >greatest story in JRPG history What the fuck are you on? Like seriously.
>Sometimes a super complex story is just trying to be complex to make it bigger than it already is. And sometimes it isnt. Whats your fucking point? You think FF games dont have charming worlds and nice characters? Why? Because they also have a bigger plot?
DQ is the only series I cannot understand how people can enjoy. It's the gaming equivalent of a dried up turd that should've been flushed ages ago.
I'm not even going to mention how the characters and plots are atrocious, because even most fans will agree to that. So, no plot and no characters in an RPG. Already there's little reason to go on.
But everything is so damn archaic! Final fantasy re-invents its gameplay with each installment with additions such as junction, spheregrid etc. Dragon Quest has attack, magic, item and run. In the eighties, that was fine. This is more than TWENTY YEARS later!
The setting is also the generic "wander the forests, explore the caves and sleep in the cities". Tell me, how many times can you explore a goddamn cave with bats before completely losing it? In other series there would usually be something awesome in the middle of the cave, like Maxwell or Ifrit. Here it's just a passageway... Filled with BATS!
>>256025868 Same reason there's eight (seven) main Dynasty Warriors games, and a non-specific amount of expansions and spin-offs. Some people just like a game play style and variations there of. I could probably add most long-running game serieses to this, like Touhou.
At least the various DQ games aren't all based off a single deliberately inaccurate historic account.
>tales has been rehashing the Symphonia formula for over a decade
Pretty much true. The only time Tales steps out of its comfort zone is when they let Team Destiny develop and use the cc battle system. Too bad it's only been used on a game we'll never get and fucking Graces.
Walking from the town you started to the first boss took about 2 minutes of real time. By the time I'd got to the boss, I'd been in over 50 random encounters. And lost because I didn't grind enough. I'd been in over 100 fights by the time I beat the first boss which was a 2 minute walk away.
It was at this point I realized what the game was going to be like and put it down never to play it again.
This sums up every DQ game ever. An hour long game stretched out over 50 hours thanks to absurdly high random encounter rates.
>>256014662 This. DQ was consistently ahead of FF during the NES and very early SNES era, but have lost their edge since, and most of those games have aged fairly poorly. I like DQ, but none of their games, aside from maybe 5, hold a candle to the truly good FF games.
>>256030181 Gameplay-wise, DQ8 is a SNES-era JRPG. It doesn't have anything over other DQ games except for the very pretty graphics and the beautfiul locales to explore, and the latter is basically negated by the traditionally obnoxious encounter rate that makes walking around any place that has random encounters a terrible chore.
>>256031475 Sounds almost like 8 since it's the only game where you fight a boss really early on. Also sounds like he didn't even try to explore. There a fucking house on top of the waterfall. Aren't you curious about it? He gives a quest to get him stuff which will help your level plus some nice cheese you can use in battle.
>>256030341 FF1 introduced basic elements to the series, the only non online FF where you choose a class at the beginning of the game, standard turn based combat, introduced elements such as the world map, airships, elemental crystals and the like to the series.
FF2 while still turn based completely changed how leveling works and how you progress your characters, unlike FF1 all characters had preset styles.
FF3 introduced a properly customizable job system while still turn based combat.
FF4 introduced the ATB system, active time battle, completely changing the battles to being time based now, enemies now attacked independent from the players input and you could die from standing idle, bringing in a sense of urgency to battles, all characters had preset classes.
FF5, introduced the revised Job system and mixed it with the context of ATB combat, far more control and variety in classes than in FF3.
FF6 had 14 playable characters, all with specific combat skills and set abilities, such as Sabins Blitz, combat still was ATB time based.
FF7 added the limit break system, first 3D FF, the limit system differs from the other ability systems from older FFs in that it's based on a charge guage, still ATB based but with this new limit system in place.
FF8 expanded on the limit system, and also added in the Draw system, also had differnt level scaling to previous FFs, was still ATB based, first FF to use realistic human proportions instead of a mix of SD chibi and proper proportions or chibi itself.
FF9 did not have the limit or draw system, it had a new system in place called Trance, it was also still ATB based and used a cartoony aesthetic much different from previous FFs.
FF10 introduced the CTB system, conditional turn based, ditching the ATB time based system and instead going back to strict turn based, but now with stocked turns, also ditched the explorable world map and pilotable airships instead having a series of connected area maps, also had spheregrid.
FF11 was the first fully online FF, the first FF to have fully real time combat, you create your own character avatar from scratch and only control one character, introduced a new system known as the RTB system, which was a variant of the ATB system, being an on like real time battle system with the cooldowns seen on the ATB bars in place for commands, meaning it ditched the CTB system FF10 introduced and was back to a time based one.
FF12 was the first single player FF game to feature real time movement in battles, battles were no longer random nor was there transition, they were seamless on the overworld, you would control and move around one character on a map and be able to freely switch to other party members whenever you wanted, it used a variant of the ATB system called ADB, active dimension battle, commands like attack and item were dictated by the ATB charge bar but movement was still completely free regardless of ATB charge, there was a system in place called Gambits which allowed you to change how your other party members would act when you aren't directly controlling them, but you can still switch to control them directly any time.
FF13 ditched this ADB system and introduced a new system, CSB, which was another variant on the ATB system, Command synergy battle, battles were back to battle transitions, but enemies still showed up on the overworld, there was no world map, no towns, no airships, only a string of linear area maps leading from one to the next, battles had you only control one character directly while the other two were automated the entire battle, you had sets called "paradigms" which allowed you to change the other party members move pools, but that was all you could do for other party members in battles.
FF14 was a second attempt at a fully online FF, it's combat is similar to FF11 but still introduced many changes to the entire RTB system, movement in general, commands available, quests, jobs, and such.
FF15 is the first fully real time FF with action ability elements mixed into the combat, a system which is a variant of the ATB known as ATB Kai, which is essentially just meaning fully real time based, similar to 12 you control one character at a time and can freely switch to another party member whenever you want, but unlike 12 there is no ATB cooldown charge in place, all commands are completely free and fully real time without restriction on input, so running, jumping, dashing, dodge rolling, teleporting, selecting magic, items, summons, switching weapons etc, it's all now done fully in real time, and most of those like jumping, dashing, rolling are the action ability elements that are new to mainline FF, and it's also bringing back the traversable world map, pilotable airships, towns and kingdoms to visit, plot about elemental crystals, as well as introduced a slew of new elements to FF such as climbing up on enemies, day/night cycles and weather cycles affected monsters and your own magic, battles are back to being seamless and monsters all appear on the overworld, certain characters use special reticles to aim at monsters, on the fly weapon switching via a customizable weapon deck, and a bunch of other things that I really don't even have to mention to drive the point home.
But please, FF really hasn't changed at all between the games.
Trance is limit break. And most changes are mediocore and just follow new technology (it's not like FF invented 3d and FF VII should be praised because of it). It's like saying that Football manager 14 was any different than 13 (other than player transfers) and it had thousands of changes. All FF games are 90% (gameplay-wise) and there is nothing wrong with it. But they are not innovative. Have x more playable chaarcters isn't really an innovation.
>>256005225 I'm not arguing in defense of Final Fantasy but Dragon Quest is an extremely shitty game. I've played flash games that were more engaging, not to mention Akira Toriyama's artstyle is an abominable eyesore. It's one of the worst games I've ever played.
>>256033320 I summarized the hell out of them you fuck, enjoy your denial though.
>>256032627 >And most changes are mediocore and just follow new technology ATB completely changed how the games core system functions, Trance is not limit break, I didn't even mention Overdrive in FF10.
The only similarity between FF4-9 is that they use the ATB system, nothing else about them is the same since they all have individual things on top of that.
The only similarity between 1-3 is that they are basic turn based, other than that they are not the same in their game structure.
FF10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 are entirely different from one another and boast the most changes to the series.
Trance is LITERALLY limit break, in fact some of them are literally the same. Like Vivi his trance is double magic cast which is the same one from FF VIII.
FF IV,V, VI are insanely similar. Last one I played is X-2 so I can't talk about newer ones. But couple of little changes isn't innovation. Z-targeting from Zelda was innovation, Renaming Limit Break to Trance isn't.
>>256033691 >The only similarity between 1-3 is that they are basic turn based, other than that they are not the same in their game structure Not him but I can say the same thing about DQ. 1 had you as the lone warrior. 2 added party members. And 3 added a robust class system that allowed you to change jobs whenever you hit level 20.
Hell FF6 as you describe is basically what DQ4 did on the NES. The whole party member with each having something different about them. Except you actually got a full story with each of the characters instead of a quick line or two for most of the characters.
>>256033907 Not even the guy you're arguing with, but what you're saying is patently, completely wrong. Trance doesn't work like Limit Break and there's no double cast Limit Break in FFVIII (or any FF for that matter). You have no clue what you're talking about.
Also, Z-targeting was something they've introduced in OoT and hasn't been changed since, which makes it more comparable to the introduction of ATB than anything else.
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