I started the game from a pub level and moved into the competitive scene for most of the early leagues
Honestly really fun and the community was good to be a part of. No one else took the game seriously so it just deteriorated over time, F2P brought a lot of new players to the scene but few stuck around after getting stomped
I still play a few hours a week in pubs because I do enjoy the game, but for the most part its fairly dull. The added weapons are interesting but mostly gimmicks that don't "ruin" the game but made it a whole lot less interesting to play for long periods of time.
I get why people play it, but as someone who played from the start its kind of lame with the direction valve taken it, but hey it reshaped gaming as we know it.
I think it's fun. I don't care too much about the cosmetics. If I get one randomly I'll wear it, but otherwise I ain't gonna gamble.
The one single item I ever bought was The Original, and that was to skip me over from F2P to full player while also making the only worthwhile purchase I could - after all, who doesn't love Quake's rocket launcher?
>>256813741 You're not a real man until you start playing as Shotgun engi. No, put that sentry away. No, put that unique weapon away. Grab a stock shotgun and go show the other players who they need to submit to.
>>256814529 Honestly I see competetive scenes in any game as a bad thing. I really do. Increasing the level of skill past a certain point ensures that certain weapons, classes, or combos will inevitably become purposeless, thus the lack of Pyros in any given comp match.
Any form of playing a game that restricts it so heavily that much of its content is denied usefulness unless it's tweaked until it's absolutely broken, cannot be a good one.
>>256813741 I've never been really big into TF2, but I've dabbled in it since it went F2P. Can anyone explain how F2P and hats "destroyed" the game? I find it hard to believe that optional cosmetic items can have such a large effect.
>>256815474 Pyro is still used in HL and even there it's apparent he's terrible. Play anywhere other than valve pubs and his weaknesses become more apparent to the point where you can't do anything other than babysit sentries and extinguish people.
>>256815692 F2p ruined the game because more people started playing it, and poorly at that. Never mind that many of them would probably eventually pay to get full access and improve over time, F2P surely is only a bad thing.
Hats destroyed the game because now there are trading servers and idle servers (although fewer than there used to be) and cosmetics are now seen as a measure of wealth and nobility except to anyone who actually doesn't give a shit.
>>256815859 Has anyone at all even attempted to use him as an ambush or harassment class and succeeded in any way, shape for form?
>>256813881 >people here still pretend cosmetics affect the game at all its free to play, you retard. microtransactions are completely down to the player, and they don't give people that choose to pay for shit an advantage
It feels like every popular fucking map is chokepoint city, be it Gold Rush, 2Fort, or Dustbowl. That shit is so unfun to play, Demos can literally play with their eyes shut and one hand and dominate on those maps.
Why can't we just get more open maps like Badwater, Upward, or Yukon? Those maps are fun as shit, plenty of room to dodge and rocket jump around without feeling fucking confined to chokepoints.
Pyro is barely a soft counter for Soldier, and even then only bad Soldiers.
A 1v1 fight of two equally skilled players playing Pyro and Soldier will always see the Soldier winning.
Soldier has more options for dealing with Pyro and more versatility. As a Soldier you can easily splash the Pyro outside the airblast cone of effect, or you can outshotty him which you will easily win most of the time since you have more HP, or you can simply jump away because you have that ability.
If a Soldier has the high ground a Pyro can not win and most of the time if the Soldier has a shotty the Pyro is fucked anyways.
>>256816149 >ambush and harassment class This is a load of shit spouted by people who have never played pyro. Three problems 1. Pyro does not have the mobility or the health to light up a group of enemies then escape alive 2. Afterburn is worthless and easily countered 3. Players have come to expect spies and scouts trying to sneak up behind them, they will see you coming Stop using the ambush argument, every class is better at it.
>>256816149 >Has anyone at all even attempted to use him as an ambush or harassment class and succeeded in any way, shape for form? Somewhat. I try to think that I'm playing short range spy, and that works out sometimes.
>>256816683 >Not going Baby Blaster then using the fish at full speed
Pyro is useless in 6v6 because of how little mobility he has. Soldier, Demo, Scout, and Med all have better movement than the other classes but Pyro has nothing other than the shitty Detonator, combined with a lack of range and damage.
The only time a Pyro is used is for defending last against an uber since all Pyro needs to do is right click to stop ubers.
>>256816889 And I agree doesn't change the fact that pyro is incredibly weak. Maybe if he brought more to the table and was an actual serious threat to demo/soldier he'd see more use in competitive games.
>>256817659 Stickies had a damage rampup time added to make air detonations less effective. Demos wailed bloody murder and it was reversed in less than a weak. The Axtinguisher now does minicrits instead of crits.
>>256817170 If you're shit, maybe. It's often times a touch of luck, but it's all about striking at the right time and striking hard. Pop in, hit them in order of importance, drop out. Or harass an engineer's shit to slow him down. I'm not a fan of the red tape, but it does have its uses (unless they nerfed it more, which they should've).
>All these newbloods who only started playing during Mannconomy Cancer update ITT >Pyro is underpowered to them and doesn't pose a threat to anyone >Engineer is underpowered to them >Demoman is overpowered to them >Demoknight is fun to them >Spy is too hard without the Dead Ringer for them Holy fuck y'all are some kinda form of terrible. This is seriously the best case to just say GIT GUD because the unlocks that classes like Pyro, Spy, and Engineer have received have made them so fucking easy to use for brain dead retards it's not even funny. If you're having trouble fighting people with a minisentry doing at LEAST 50% of your damage or all of your pyro weaponry dealing either guaranteed full or minicrits, you're part of the reason TF2 is so shit; you're the SPUF audience.
>>256817170 Haha what? The original base loadout is actually still the most versatile. But you need to not be a complete idiot who relies on magical powers to not die in order to utilize it.
Basically you need practice and experience. Spy has always been a technical, strategic class centered around knowing common player psychology, calculated movements, and staying concealed.
A LOT of people don't seem to realize just how important it is to not let the enemy team know there's a Spy running around. Spies cause the most damage when nobody is watching their backs. But then you use shit like ice pick and dead ringer which make loud noises and leave statues that serve as gigantic "WATCH THE FUCK OUT THERE'S A SPY HERE" signals.
>>256815275 >Slap teles down >Dispenser some place the team can benefit from as much as possible >Sentry/mini sentry guarding obj or in a spot no one expects >Grab shotty and become a lead farmer >If another engie is around, help them with shit real quick or when stuff goes bad >Keep short circuit handy too I did a 17 streak the other day doing just that, better than any other class streak which is scout with 13. Not shabby i'd say.
>>256817616 >The vast plethora of items stop right there pleb, the items added to tf2 don't change the gameplay to the degree that an entire class is completely invalidated
a pyro ambushes a soldier. assume he doesn't suck and can anticipate and reflect rockets at close range, and hit shit with his shotgun. what GAME BREAKING NEW ITEMS allow the soldier to repel the pyro better than the stock?
there's a reason competent players use vanilla weapons and you know it
>Any form of playing a game that restricts it so heavily that much of its content is denied usefulness unless it's tweaked until it's absolutely broken, cannot be a good one.
This has more to do with valve ruining the game for any skilled play and turning it into a pub game over. We very easily could have had it both ways but valve chose to ignore the people in the competitive scene (minus a few UI tweaks like spectator mode).
Doesn't help they broke replays every patch, wouold patch at random times so there would be times when players would DC from something like an ESEA/CEVO match due to connections, the game would patch at like 8pm on a Wednesday and you were forced t o play man down. Real cool.
You have to remember the competitive scene was around before the weapons even got added, it was looking great with the medic update with the kritz and uber saw that added a lot to medic play at high level. Then everything else got added and the game slowly became worse/unfun to play as seriously since you know no one fucking cares about, not the esports community (even l4d fans would shit on us at lans lol. I was so happy when l4d2 basically killed their community
Although no real esport potential due to spectators being clueless without knowing the game, so fuck it I guess
It is a shitty competitive game now, but there was a point that it was hella fun
Honestly most of the variables as to why competitive tf2 is a broke is because valve just doesn't give a fuck about it, they never did. It would have been easy for them to promote it, instead they go full retard with items and hats and not give a fuck about balance, just lolrandom fun
Man I don't even know what I'm ranting about anymore but fuck man 6v6 was really fucking fun for a period, especially in the higher levels of play
>>256818417 I dunno, man. I'd say the Homewrecker kind of invalidates spy to a certain extent.
Hell, pyro's my favorite class and I think sapper removal on pyro is fucking busted. If you have half of a brain-stem the spy probably won't get near the engi setup in general. Then if he manages to get past you and sap all of that shit and kill the engineer, he still isn't rewarded for outplaying the shit out of you? It's nonsense
The source filmmaker movies valve makes are far more entertaining than the game.
I played plenty of the game back when it was new and they were adding all kinds of content for it, but it's very hard to find a reason to keep playing it. There's no real reward for winning, so i just drop in and drop out of games whenever i want. Pretty much like counter-strike.
I can play counter-strike more competitively in global offensive because of the match making that punishes for early leaving. But ultimately i don't want to commit whatever amount of time the game requires, i just want to shoot shit up.
You can only enjoy FPS games for so long though, there's no real learning curve or skill involved other than having good reaction time and understand how the weapons work.
>>256813741 A game that can be very entertaining and fun just play the game how you want, work as a team, and more importantly be sure to have fun and never take it too seriously. Take every new patch as more of a good thing instead of "THIS PATCH RUINED THE GAME!"
>>256818417 > tf2 don't change the gameplay to the degree that an entire class is completely invalidated afterburn has more counters than ever before engineer can block projectiles now, better than pyro more debuff unlocks now that are actually effective unlike afterburn flamethrower is weaker than every other primary in the game soldier and scout are far better at flanking than pyro with gunboats and BFB
>>256819642 >he still isn't rewarded for outplaying the shit out of you? It's nonsense
yeah i actually agree with this
i'm pretty sure in practice the actual percentage of sappers getting removed by homewreckers is quite low, but you're totally correct to say that it pretty much vetos all the spy's efforts the times that it is succesful
i've never actually heard a complaint about it before, but you're 100% right about it
>>256820391 >but it wouldn't surprise me if the current pyro was actually really good in the right hands I play pyro more than any other class at 3k hours. He's still shit. If it weren't for the fact that pyro is fun to play, I could easily go demo and stomp every single game it takes no effort. Pyro you have to fight for every single kill because his DPS is so fucking awful.
>>256821336 That's exactly my point, soldier and demo are extremely effective with little to no effort put in. Pyro to be effective at all you have to break your ass and like spy after a certain point if the enemy team is skilled enough you can't accomplish anything. Pyro is underpowered.
>>256821713 You have me there, Pyros and spys have alot of "tricks" backstab, airblast, deadringer and axtinguisher once the enemy becomes aware you have a dead ringer or are going to airblast back something its easy avoid these classes limited tricks.
>>256822235 I used to play back when those things were introduced, you saw about 2-3 every match, I have no idea what kind of person buys a 100$ digital ring, would make more sense to save the one hindered to put towards...a real ring.
>>256821227 Pyro is the very, very last class anyone would ever play in 6s. Sniper is the most common mixer since hes great for picking and generally holding off players, Spy can very rarely get a pick too and even Heavy/Engi may get used on a final point defence, but Pyro? Fucking no. Youll get mauled by Scouts and Soldiers wont dare to shoot rockets near you just in case you do reflect and pop their Medic so youll just get shotgunned down before getting into range. Hes got no mobility and no [reliable] means to deal damage past the tip of his flamethrower.
In pubs, however? Hes not too shabby. If you can avoid Heavies then you can easily drop many classes and, thanks to attrition, reflect kills are easy. Using the Powerjack you can somewhat reliably move about and keep yourself topped off.
I mean, any other class can do just as well -- if not better -- than him in pubs too. If youre even half good at keeping an eye on your surroundings and playing with range then Pyros and Spies are the two classes that you never need worry about. Theyre just not a threat in the vast majority of situations but are extremely efficient at doing what they can do.
>>256822232 I meant the Marvel encourages high tier play because of the scene. Other games like Tekken, SF, GG, BB aren't all dictated by tiers.
Kokonoe was considered TopTier and untouchable. There were a few in this year's EVO but a mid tier character won. A Litchi. Among the top, there were also an Az and a Bang with Bang being on the same level as Litchi.
>>256817124 It's just, I feel like just popping out of corners and using flare shots to build up mmph then moving around and stepping out from behind another corner just as a group goes by would be worth something, y'know? Similar with the backburner. Does that just not happen in comp? What exactly is it about the level of skill at that level that makes those strategies worthless? What about using flares to crit on aflame enemies, or degreaser/reserve shooter juggling in a corner?
It seems like it would work so well in my head, but I've still got the mind of like, 4/10 skill.
In my mind, F2P didn't kill it, but the hats did. The game has now become more about collecting things than actually playing. People nowadays don't even care if they're playing a match. They just play the game to get stuff, and don't give a shit if they're winning ir not.
>>256823021 well this mid lifespan of it being relevant, it was pretty much they teamed up with zynga and in order to view 90% of their adult flash games and alot of regular games too you had to install "zynga toolbar" full of ad/spyware that was a bitch to uninstall. Took them a year or two to finally realize they fucked up and remove that shit.
The millions of different weapons and server mods have killed it. I preordered it originally. It was an amazing game. They started releasing new weapons, and the new weapons were cool and opened up new possibilities on what you could do with the game, and the game was well balanced.
Now I join servers that have instant respawn because god forbid you have to wait 20 seconds after dying, and there are so many different weapons I don't know what the fuck is going to happen when I try fighting anyone. Every class except the pyro has a million different weapons it can use to bullshit its way through a fight because they have some new brand of faggotry you hadn't seen up to that point.
>>256823332 >popping out of corners and using flare shots Youd likely hit maybe once and then get flanked or jumped on, if not simply avoided. >build up mmph If you havent got the ability to reflect youre dead. Scouts will not let you hit them with flares and even if you do they can outgun you while you reload. Soldiers and Demos simply wont hesitate to bombard you since they know you cant reflect. Their Medic wont be far away so the afterburn is mitigated (actually, theyd LIKE you to burn them a bit and help build their uber nice and fast -- this is actually why the GRU got nerfed) and the flaregun has too little rate of fire to make the crits count. >What exactly is it about the level of skill at that level that makes those strategies worthless? >or degreaser/reserve shooter juggling in a corner? Youd never get close. Scouts crawl the flanks and will call you out, if not give chase and kill you, so Medics will be on guard and will get their pocket to deal with you before youre ever in range (if the roamer doesnt do so anyway).
>>256823882 Not enough; no. Scouts can dance circles round you, in and out of flame range, and Soldiers/Demos will rain down on you.
>>256824795 >The pyro is great at disrupting large groups at once, and he needs to have people come in just after he jumps in You know who does this better? Demoman and soldier
>I'm pretty sure the demoman is the only class he has the capability of outplaying GL and stickies both fire faster than he can reflect, do way more damage than anything pyro has, and stickies can be blown up in his face without any consequences.
>>256818145 >>Pyro is underpowered to them and doesn't pose a threat to anyone
This has always been the case. He's fucking useless apart from spychecking and putting out fires. His DPS is the lowest in the game, comparatively. And he has no range, which means he's shutdown by almost everything since most maps are chokepoints.
>>256819445 I dreamed of a time when the scene would be big enough to have full 12v12 matches like the game was build for. Too bad Valve fucked the game too much before the scene got big enough for that.
>>256824475 If you catch up behind a group before they notice you're there, half of them will already be dead from your crits before they manage to obliterate you, including medics if you're actually aiming for them first. WHAT WOULD STOP THIS? Same thing for Backburner, although obviously less so.
>Scouts will not let you hit them with flares With a scorch gun, you don't even need to hit the scout, you can hit anywhere around them and light them aflame, all you need to do is catch them unawares or be able to track/predict their movements.
Am I supposed to take from this the idea that no competent scout would ever get hit by a flare at all under any circumstances? Because I have watched as a pyro with a degreaser and flare gun lit up a scout as he turned a corner, then airblasted him and shot a flare at him in the same motion, utterly demolishing the scout in less than a second.
As for the degreaser / reserve shooter juggling, that was more referring to maybe ambushing one or two enemies, not a thick bunch.
>Getting bored playing Soldier all the time and helping Team >Decided to try out Sandman Scout for the first time since I joined TF2 >Oh wait I have this Guillotine thing that combos with the Sandman, I might as well try it out >All those Crit Bleeding >All those buttmad players >Nonstop fun Anyone keeping track of my heads batted in?
>>256827687 >phlog is for noobs I like using the phlog because it looks kewl and has this epik ability when you can literally rape the whole team in 10 seconds. You can't reflect shit with it but newfags think it doesn't matter when it's really helpful. >>256827987 Yeah but sometimes it doesn't work, specially when the other team is full of snipers.
>>256826559 >WHAT WOULD STOP THIS? They would never let you build up damage in the first place, seeing as every other class destroys you 1v1.
>Same thing for Backburner Backburner only registers crits if you are directly behind them. If they move even slightly left or right your crits are gone and it's back to regular flamethrower 1v1 which you lose.
>With a scorch gun, you don't even need to hit the scout, you can hit anywhere around them and light them aflame Even if you did hit them it does no damage at all and for every second you have it out that's an opportunity for them to meatshot you.
>then airblasted him and shot a flare at him in the same motion, utterly demolishing the scout in less than a second. You're talking pubs, good spacing counters this entirely.
>>256814817 This, but with Global Offensive. Tried to play TF2, but got too used to GO's interface, and the ability to switch weapons by simply tapping the key instead of tapping and clicking. Also TF2 feels too fast.
>>256829000 >backburner only registers crits under these conditions But... that's wrong? In pubs I have run up behind groups and as long as it hits their backside it counts, even when they're a person to the side.
>>256829646 >they force niche situations that other pubs have no experience with, utterly destroying your team with something that would NEVER work in comp >watch as a frontier justice, short circuit gunslinger engie fucking successfully nests and destroys any enemies >watch shortstop scouts mad milk a heavy and destroy him >IT'S UP TO YOU TO SAVE THE DAY AND BE THE HERO
Pub is fun as fuck. Any game mode where all of the content a game has access to is made viable and there are more situations and strategies to deal with as a result is by very nature better than a setting where only three or four classes out of nine are ever relevant at any point in time, and only with certain loadouts.
>Flame thrower that shoots liquid nitrogen >does no damage >continued frost damage will slow down target until they're frozen in ice >you need a friendly Pyro to thaw you or a melee strike to break the ice >can freeze the ground to make it slippery
Hell, what if they'd said "fuck you" and also put in a 10 second charge-up time for the stickies? Maybe with a visual indicator, the stickies getting more transparent so they're more hidden. It definitely would encourage sticky use as a defensive trap, that's for sure.
But, naturally if anything like this would be added, it would be an unlockable weapon. And since demo only gets demoknight items anymore, we can forget that.
>lose as a black box soldier to an engineer on close range >miss rockets, miss shotgun blasts, try to melee but misclick and tf2 gets minimized to desktop >engineer finishes me off with a gunslinger crit >punch my laptop so hard it shuts off and lets out a small puff of smoke I just want to kill myself to sleep
>>256829703 https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Backburner >The area behind an enemy that will register critical hits for the weapon is approximately a 90 degree angle centered behind where the opponent is facing
>>256816383 They do affect the game. Compare Orange Box tf2 to the modern version. Almost half of the current servers are dedicated to hat trading. Everything but the maps has blinky neon cosmetic crap attached to it now.
>>256826559 >If you catch up behind a group before they notice you're there Reality: they will notice. Comp players are much, much more observant and reactive plus they will tell their team mates about there being someone roaming and where. Its hard enough to reliably flank as a Scout and get a pick at the Medic, let alone with a class thats much slower and bigger.
>Because I have watched [a player in a pub kill another player in a pub kill someone through circumstance] Thats wonderful and if a Scout does run blindly into you then perhaps the same could be done. Pretty big hope, though. Bearing in mind theres only two of them running around and theyll be mixing up their routes to best stay out of sight and try to catch people off-side. And if you ever get one person theyll tell their team so nobody else falls into it.
>As for the degreaser / reserve shooter juggling Again and again: you wont get close enough to pull this off on your own terms when you want to. Youll be hoping they run into you which is unreliable and slow. Plus they will learn. They will know thats how you have to operate and will get cautious. Even Snipers can get put out of action by people sticking to routes and areas with lots of cover or otherwise short distances. If all people have to do is add a moderate amount of care when turning a corner (in a cramped environment) you can be damn well sure they will.
TF2 is a good game, still. It's a fun one to jump into from time to time, especially with friends and especially onto servers that cater to what you want out of the game.
But its developers lost track of the original vision of the game, and buggered about with cosmetic items that defied the artstyle.
I still think the game's great and will fistfight anyone who says otherwise granted that they make the trip, I can't be arsed, but its best years are, apparently, over - unless Valve pulls something out of nowhere that completely revitalises the game.
>>256815692 >playing arena with people with over 2500hours into the game >server is strictly arena no crits and NO TRADING >every 2 mins get some guy that joins and first thing in chat that they put in >trading X? Its just that people stopped seeing it as a game and the new people were stupid enough to think that buying items would make you as good as someone with +1000 hours
>>256813881 Look at the evil Valve! Unlike CoD4 for example, they add cosmetics! And updates, completly for free! Such an evil thing to do! Good lord, how do they dare to give promotional items for one of their own games?! Valve is literally Satan! Jesus Christ, they released TF2 as F2P after four years, how is this possible that the people that bought the game don't even get any advantage?! The F2P players can get EXACTLY the same stuff as the people who bought the game, what a horryfying thing!
And worst of all, they even added economy, and Steam Market! Look at me, I'm whining about a game from year 2007, nearly every multiplayer game is dead from that year, but I'll still call Valve evil because they update their own game! Only faggots that don't know how to make money out of the community market whine, I've got about 120€ just selling the shit I've gained since year 2008.
>>256817659 Demomen, the most powerful class in the game, were made completely useless. Stickies did like 30 damage.
Heavies, the slowest, most boring class in the game, were made even less mobile
Pyro, the weakest class(except spy) in the game, lost their close range burst damage from the axetinguisher and were no longer even theoretically good at close range, which you may remember as the entire point of their class
The Gunslinger is a horrible piece of shit that gives massive rewards for absolutely zero skill and the game would be better if it was removed or severely nerfed. IMO minis should have a 10-15 second lifespan before they auto-destruct.
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