Shigeru don't like filthy casuals.
In other words:
>We just realized we can't cater to the casuals forever while smartphones shit on our Wii U while losing our core fanbase in the process, we'll go back to our old ways
Your definition of casual is wrong. Casual gaming means playing a game once in a while or only playing while you have time to spare (so you wouldn't really set aside time in the day just to play video games). Casual gamers usually play smartphone games that are designed to kill time on your daily commute or whilst you're waiting for an appointment (so games like Angry Birds or Doodle Jump).
A core gamer is someone who actively enjoys video games and sets aside time in the day to just play video games. This is regardless of their skill level, it's simply how often they play video games.
Having said that, some modern Nintendo games are harder to fully complete compared to a lot of other modern games, although that's mainly because everyone else is making games easier nowadays rather than Nintendo deliberately making harder games.
What anon is trying to say is that a proper definition core, at least in the context Shigeru Miyamoto is using it here, is people who make video games an actual hobby.
But I'd also add that Miyamoto is probably also referring to the core Nintendo crowd.
I'm not sure he's talking shit about the kind of people who played Brain Training for months.
Sounds to be he feels more strongly about non-committed players. People who treat games as throwaway and breeze though them on easy just to see everything in it. Some of those people play CoD, some play Nintendogs.
I can get behind this. Genre shouldn't dictate how casual a game is, the attitude of the player should.
Miyamoto explains it a bit better in the article. Casual gamers are quite passive, in that they'll just play whatever the latest trend is and they'll just expect the entertainment to come to them automatically. Core gamers are more active, in that they'll actively seek out other games to play based on what they've liked about previous games they've enjoyed. They're also willing to put a bit more effort in gitting gud so that they can fully enjoy a game. Core gamers often discuss video games with other core gamers too (so pretty much everyone on /v/ is a core gamer). You'd rarely see people talking so passionately about Candy Crush.
>"oy vey, the casuals have abandoned us! Our shovelware is selling like ass!"
>"what should we do!"
>"I know Shigerustein, why don't you pretend you like the hardcoretards?"
A lot of people that brought the WiiU absolutely hated the Wii, so he does have a point.
I hated the Wii, i hated motion controls, i hated 90% of the entire Wii library, yet i love my WiiU.
I consider myself a "core gamer" but I still loved the shit out of Nintendogs and Brain Age was fun.
Just because Shigeru is criticized non-committed players doesn't mean he's going to stop producing his trademark stuff, nor do I think he should since he produces a very distinct line of games with broad appeal and which are often well crafted, but I think Nintendo might begin to shift it's PR a little now that it's beginning to understand that the casuals it brought in with Wii Sports and shit aren't committed to Nintendo products like its core fanbase and simply go with the latest trends. That core fanbase probably includes JRPG fanatics, Zelda fanboys, and people who actually know who Miyamoto is to get excited about anything with his name on it.
>money to burn
More like no more money to earn, don't dilute yourself, if the Wii U had the success of the Wii in the casual audience Shiggy probably wouldn't be saying these things.
Good, let the casualfag scum waste their money on Kim Kardashian, CandyCrush, Mineycrafta, TLOU and other trite garbage.
It's fucking disgusting, at least Sony and M$ aren't hypocrites. They have this "mature shooters and edgy action games" schtick and they fucking stick with it to the end. Also, when you're buying one of their consoles you know what you're signing up for, they have DLC, they have paid online etc.
Nintendo? Iwata and Reggie were calling for a crusade against DLC up until a few months ago and look at them now. For all we know the WiiU might get its own version of PS+ before this gen is over.
Disgusting hypocrites. Hope they get all fired and Yamauchi's son shits out Mario games for android/iOS until the end of times.
>Nintendo made games for casuals for the entire last decade
>most of these casuals don't even know what are a Wii U, so they are not getting the profit they expected
>Sony and Microsft however kept making games for every type of public, with a lot of hardcore games
>Nintendo: "w-we don't like casuals anymore g-guises! we will make games for true gamers, i swear!"
Just die already cunts.
>Iwata and Reggie were calling for a crusade against DLC
I bet you're a faggot who saw someone post that image and took it at face value without looking into it. Neither of them said anything about DLC being a sin, they said that they shouldn't deliberately cut content from a game and sell it as DLC. They also said that if they do sell DLC, it should be worth it and the original game should be a complete package anyway.
The difference between Sony DLC and Nintendo DLC is that Nintendo sell you whole game and merely updates with some special bonuses which enhance the experience but aren't necessary.
Sony will release a game, you beat it and then you realize you didn't get the true ending which you have 10.99 for. Sony deliberately cuts content, Nintendo doesn't.
>man our brand image and game quality has been seriously lacking because we're trying to reach a demographic that wants nothing to do with our products in the first place
>fuck those faggots lets make the games we want now
I see absolutely no problem with this. Everyone wins.
This image real?
I've been telling people for ages that ALttP made Zelda easy and linear as fuck and the series has never really recovered from this huge misstep, but a lot of people don't seem to agree for some reason. I can only assume it's nostalgia.
>Sony will release a game, you beat it and then you realize you didn't get the true ending which you have 10.99 for. Sony deliberately cuts content, Nintendo doesn't.
That would require Sony to be a games developer.
You're literally retarded.
More like Miyamoto's trying to dodge a bullet after realizing that it was a mistake to casualize Nintendo the past 10 years.
You reap what you sow, I guess.
I just hope this means more good Nintendo games with higher difficulty and online standards.
ALttP is most likely the first zelda game most people have played. Realistically OoT is probably the first as far as most people 21 and younger are concerned with. I'm 26 and I've never played zelda 1 or 2 despite owning a NES
You are literally retarded, Gran Turismo 6 had a lot of free DLCs, like new cars, modes and events, and they were all free. How about Nintendo making a paid DLC for MK*, since they said before that they don't think it's right to charge for aditional content?
They are a bunch of hypocrits.
Zelda 2 got a ton of shit for being very hard. Even the original Zelda was pretty cryptic, they had to give the American players a map telling them what to do for the first one or two dungeons. Nintendo have had to casualise their games if they wanted to do well in America (which is by far the most profitable country to sell video games in)
>Shigeru doesn't like casuals
>Has literally never made or even tangentially worked on a project that wasn't 100% aimed at the casual market
It's pathetic that they are this desperate for an excuse for making shitty sales.
They never said they were against DLC or additional content at all. They were against cutting content and not giving the consumer a complete experience, which is what a lot of games on PS3 did.
Most of Nintendo's DLC is bonus content that isn't even necessary. Only people who enjoyed the game and want more content buy it.
My first Zelda game was Zelda 2.
My grandparents gave it to me for Christmas and I was like what the fuck is this shit for the first half of the time I owned it.
It was hard as balls, and there was no direction.
I gained a bit more appreciation for it once I played it more, but it was still one of those games that I had to go back to in my late teens, that shit was too hard for 8 year old me.
>Nintendo made games for casuals for the entire last decade
Nintendo made games for everyone while putting most of their advertising budget towards that one section they wanted to reel in, that is the more family games. But they never stopped making games for core gamers, not even with the Wii.
Sony and Microsoft just shat out whatever appealed to dudebros, hood rats and spics until the consoles became virtual clones of one another.
a casual gamer is someone who just plays something to kill time. The kinds of people who just play angry birds on their lunch break.
a core gamer is someone who takes a deep and abiding interest in video games as a hobby.
Miyamoto's games were always accessible for people who were regular gamers or new gamers alike.
>Nintendo made games for casuals for the entire last decade
They also made plenty of games for non-casuals.
>Sin and Punishment: Star Successor
>Wario Land: Shake It!
>Metroid Prime 2 and 3
>Donkey Kong Country Returns
and so on
Anon, Custom Robo Battle Revolution is just over ten years old now.
So exactly how big is the official Nintendo money pile? Are they realistically in trouble or did the Wii shoot them up to a position of comfort where they can easily afford a period of bad sales?
Considering how much they made with the Wii and the fact that the 3DS has remained a success, I think they're in an okay position. They're just going through a rough transition period as far as the home console market is concerned, but then so is everybody.
The article says:
>In an age where Apple and Android smartphones have become the leading games platforms for the casual audience, Miyamoto says Nintendo no longer needs to reach out to those customers.
>"In the days of DS and Wii, Nintendo tried its best to expand the gaming population," he said.
>"Fortunately, because of the spread of smart devices, people take games for granted now. It's a good thing for us, because we do not have to worry about making games something that are relevant to general people's daily lives."
>Edge magazine's exclusive interview with Miyamoto comes as part of a wider feature on Nintendo, with the publication visiting its new R&D offices in Kyoto and speaking to developers behind every major upcoming Wii U game.
I think when the Wii came around, the only way for Nintendo to compete with Sony and Microsoft was to appeal to an untapped market of casual gamers as best it could. Miyamoto seems to just be saying "we don't need to do that anymore and if we do, we're gonna lose both the core and casual markets" Doesn't mean Nintendo is going to stop making more family oriented games though just means that it might focus on a different part of their market, which is the more committed market of core Nintendo gamers.
Nintendo's got a pretty sizable war chest, the 3DS prints money and pretty much negates the home console dry spell. They can afford to struggle in the console market as long as the 3DS continues to sell like hotcakes.
Okay, I'm tempted to get an issue of Edge
legallyfor the first time in ages.
Is there any way to simply buy a DRM free pdf?
I mean, otherwise I'll simply wait for it to pop up on the well-known sites.
>People STILL are so deluded to believe that the Wii U actually attempted to target the Wii audience
Apparently you guys don't remember how the NES was constantly hated on by the "hardcore" arcade and PC gamers complaining about how its gimmicky gamepad controller and baby-easy games compared to brutal arcade games and complex PC games were going to ruin gaming forever.
Are you seriously implying gaming didn't start with simple cheap distraction sort of games meant to be played in short bursts?
Do you really think stuff like Metroid, Zelda, Kid Icarus, Mario, Mach Rider, StarTropics, Nazo no Murasamejou, Famicom Wars, Punch-Out!!, and so on were easy, or weren't decently complex for console games at the time?
>alienate fans for years to get a quick buck from casuals
>try to make it seem like you care about them after the casuals left
Yeah no. How about you go fuck yourself, Miyamoto?
Of course they're coming back to their core audience, they abandoned them all for casuals and it just so happened that the casuals moved on over to smartphones.
Honestly what took them so long? Granted I'm like an abused housewife at this point, so I'm crawling back
yeah keep rehashing and rereleasing those same 5 ips with gimmicky controls and decade old hardware
Makes sense, no matter what the console situation is though I feel confident that they'll always put out successful handhelds. Even just giving the DS a power upgrade every generation like the 3DS was could last them a while. Smartphones and tablets can't easily replace their unique features.
I feel Nintendo may be looking at a spot of better sales coming up, if Mario Kart 8 taught us anything it's that the best of their 1st party games will very much carry the console, and we've got a whole string of stuff like that in the coming months. This could actually be the Christmas season that Nintendo thought the last few were going to be. If nothing else it'll serve as a short term solution while Nintendo scrambles to lay down the land mines in the offices of their terrible marketing department.
That's because NES games often gave you restricted control over your character due to technical limitations. Metroid is a good example of it, the majority of the game's difficulty stems from only being able to shoot in 4 directions.
They never really "alienated" them tho. It was more like "Let's take a balanced approach to what kind of games we put out, but focus our PR on bringing in casuals." At the time that was a smart move and probably saved Nintendo for the last ten years.
with only the deepest of lore
>NES games often gave you restricted control over your character due to technical limitations
Any good game you actually remember was designed entirely around any limitations that were in place.
You're a retard. Sure NES had some casualized liscenced games at the time but in general every game had much more difficulty than games do nowadays. Even relatively easy games like StarTropics would still rape your babby anus any day.
They didn't though, I think they expected the core gamers wouldn't need Nintendo's guidance for what games they might be interested in so they focus on marketing to the newer audience.
The Wii had plenty of core titles. I kind of tind it ridiculous that the reason people think the PS3 and 360 were more core orientated was because Sony and Microsoft told you what games to get hyped for.
lets take the Legend of Zelda, add guide dang it levels of hidden passages and puzzles and even clunkier combat
and if you die, you start with 3 hearts. always.
still fun though
>doesn't mean they will stop making family games though
Of course not, that's where most of their profit come from.
You guys overthink too hard the fact that party games simply don't sell well anymore.
I'm 35 and I don't remember that too much. Also arcade and home console were different beasts. There wasn't any more easyness between Atari console games.
Although it's been a long time since I played the arcade Ninja Gaiden, Ninja Gaiden 3 on the NES was way harder than it from my recollection (if the first NES one was easier, which I wouldn't necessarily agree with anyway).
Like them or hate them, Nintendo keeps doing unconventional things in a world where Microsoft and Sony race each other to obsolescence, and even if you don't like what Nintendo does you have to admit they keep the world of gaming more interesting.
No. Wii U was basically Nintendo's GameCube philosophy from the get-go, only with a shitty "Wii" coating in a sad, sad attempt to sucker in the expanded audience it got from the Wii. Hell you can see them abandon their audience in the middle of the Wii's lifecycle when they released shit like Other M or a SECOND Mario Galaxy(despite mile-high demand for a new 2D mario with an actual budget and production values) as well as more cartoony puzzle-riddled Zelda. On Wii U Nintendo basically went straight back to making only games Nintendo wanted to make rather than what consumers wanted to play, and it backfired horribly, as could easily have been seen if one would have just looked at N64 and GCN. Sure they threw bones to try to entice "casuals" with NSMBU, Wii Fit U, and the sports pack, but they were smarter than that and didn't bother for the most part simply because they already had those exact games on the Wii.
because it doesn't fit the narrative that shitposters want to use. Plus, the average person isn't going to take the time to do their research so they can hook a ton of people with that bait.
Henceforth, the truth shall now be spoken from the highest mountains. Brawl was shit, and will forever be shit.
No amount of revisionist history on /v/ will change that. If Smash4 is anything like Brawl we can go ahead and prepare funeral arrangements for the franchise.
It sucks to put old friends into the ground.
all ultima games until IV were ported to the nes
good point on the commodore, though, except you obviously never played an arcade game on that piece of shit or you'd know the nes was miles better
To me it sounds like he only wants more diehard Nintendo fanboys because those are the only people who buy WiiU. Unfortunately you can't just make those people appear, Nintendo is doomed.
iota of truth in this. you think gaming PCs have a high entry barrier now?
>"Their attitude is, 'okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.' It's kind of a passive attitude they're taking, and to me it's kind of a pathetic thing."
>Shiggy calls non gamers pathetic
He sure loved casuals when they were buying Wiis by the truckload.
Actually it hasn't kept up at all, which is why Nintendo has not made any money in the past three years. The only reason they profited two years ago was because everyone did due to favorable exchange rates. It's also worth mentioning these three years are the only time since they entered the industry that they have failed to profit.
But any "limitations in controls" in Metroid were balanced by the fact that enemies had simple predictable behaviors. The only game series I think is legitimate in saying clunky controls and player-interface issues inflates difficulty is maybe the Castlevania series.
The only real difficulty in Metroid (which I don't consider very high difficulty level for NES games), was that you had no direction and had to explore and find objectives yourself (while dealing with enemies and hazards). This is a good type of difficulty as it forces the player to be aware of their situation and figure out what needs to be done. Unfortunately in this age people don't have the attention span to devote this sort of mental energy and so you get the compass markers and all that.
>Even just giving the DS a power upgrade every generation like the 3DS was could last them a while. Smartphones and tablets can't easily replace their unique features.
It's not just that, it's also the fact that Nintendo's handhelds carry a very large and unique library of games. Also, the marketing department for the DS was always very different from the Wii marketing department. The Wii had its fair share of games geared for that hardcore market, some fairly well financially and criticallly, but when it came to marketing the Wii, from the very beginning it was never advertised as something for hardcore gamers and that's why it was such a success in spite of not having the kind of features that PS3 and XBOX 360 had or even the power of those systems and this is also why many games designed for hardcore gamers that came out on the Wii sort of flew under the radar. As far as the Wii was concerned, Nintendo was advertising itself as a game company for everybody.
The DS marketing has always been very different and much more balanced in that they have often taken the time to advertise to hardcore gamers and casual gamers alike who bought the console and in the case of the DS, the core gamers probably did play the more casual games more often. Many of the same people playing Atlus RPG's were still playing Nintendogs.
Some of the Wii U's own lack of success can probably be blamed on the colossal success that was the Wii. Wiis were still selling when it came out.
>Nintendo's renewed passion for the core
you roped in casuals with the wii, doubled down on the gimmicks and got assfucked for it. you even made the wii editions of mario kart and smash crap for casuals' sake, and now you're sorry? ahahahahaha
They're in a comfortable position to experiment and take a few failures, remember. The Wii gave them more so much money that if they used it all to build a massive warehouse to store it all, they'd still have too much money to fit inside it.
You can't deny that the wii was marketed and made for cassuals, the Wii U is almost the same.
Yes they have the core games that aren't for cassuals, but everything else is made for them.
You can't deny it, is a fact.
that's not why they've not seen a profit though. the wiiu has failed to make any particular profits as yet, but what's really cost them is investments in new buildings, expanding their development teams, buying shares back etc. it's a negative on their overall revenue but that money is funding new and potentially awesome shit. Compare that to Sony who are hemhorraging money like a stuck pig and selling off assets left and right.
Shiggy has officially joined /v/
How does this make you feel?
>all that rabid Nintendildo delusion
Nintendo stopped being appealing to me after the Gamecube and I've owned every system from them up until then. They instead started to pander to 4 year old toddlers, casuals and retards. You are most likely one of those if you think their games haven't become gradually more bland, barebone, a cutesy parody of their former self and shit.
It's too little, too late and frankly that old pedofuck sounds like a gigantic hypocrite who is backpedalling hard, being the very one who produced shit like Wii Fit, Wii Music and other casual cancer turds for the past 10 years.
OK SHIGGY THEN WHERE THE FUCK IS MY F-ZERO UX
>>implying people who played desu also played nintendogs
When I bought the original DS, the games I played most on it were Riviera: The Promised Land, Metroid Prime Hunters, Meteos, Nintendogs and Castlevania.
Denial: The Post
Wii U was made and build around their shitty Fisher Price tablet which had only one mission: to get all those shitty casuals on board and recreate a Wii 2.0 craze.
It backfired because the casuals have already moved on to mobile games and the hardcore and seasoned gamers saw the piece of shit hardware of the console and its pathetic toddler iPad for what it was and didn't even bother.
The name itself of that POS paperweight is the best evidence that they wanted to ride on that Wii tail as long as possible.
>Shigeru don't like filthy casuals.
hes only saying that because they finally realised that the only people that bought the wiiu were the neckbeards, the hole "casual" player base they had with the wii is now gone.
>hes only saying that because they finally realised that the only people that bought the wiiu were the neckbeards
He realized that Wii U will never take off with their current strategy, and he's bitter over it.
As much as I like the Wii U I do agree with this. Nintendo hoped the Wii U ship would sail into the sunset forever, but it turned out that it wasn't a sunset but the unforgiving flame of a tactical carpet bombing.
Thankfully with conferences like this it seems Nintendo is going back to their pre-Wii game, and I have hope. This could turn out quite well, they certainly have the money in store for experimentation.
There is not trial and error here. Nintendo tried to create another casual magnet like the wii but failed horribly now they try to salvage the situation by pretending that they always cared for core players when they openly laughed at hardcore players during Wii's rise.
Whats wrong with ditching them? Nintendo made games that they could access and all they did was play those and not move on to the other games. They talked about this way back with the Wii, they weren't trying to pander to casuals and ditch the hardcore audience, they were trying to bring in people that didn't normally play games in order to expand their audience and get more sales. They wanted to bridge the gap between people who don't play games and the traditional core gaming with easy to access titles like Wii Sports, not ditch the hardcore market altogether. But casuals just moved on to iPhone and never tried to pick up the more challenging games. That's what he's talking about. So whip out your dick and piss on them, he's right imo.
>providing no evidence whatsoever to summarize a userbase of 150 million people.
Games like Nintendogs and Brain Age sold a lot of units, I don't think you can say that everyone who bought a copy or played a copy of those on a semi-regular basis was a casual, especially since a lot of people shared those consoles with other members in their families, like their kids or younger siblings.
Yes, you fagnut. I count the Wii U as another failure. Nintendo went to shit after the GCN era and stayed utter shit to this day.
What did you even try to say with your post, you god damn potato?
It's the way he talks, all arrogant and holier-than-thou about the same casuals he was sucking dicks just 2 years ago. He is a fucking whore and no better than Cliff Hasbeenski who made it big with PC gaming, went on to shit on it and its entire audience during the 360 years and is now crawling back again
>Y-Yo PC da best consoles a shit. Do you love me again, plz love me again gais ;_;
It helps no one but the only ones who'll defend it are the most hardcore around. Nintendo lost it when they greenlit the idea.
The Wii U is a poor lie, Nintendo made it to please the hardcore but designed it expecting the casuals to be stupid enough to fund their crusade into insanity.
The Wii U was made to attract casuals. That is why it has "Wii" in the name and it is also why the tablet was included. They want to focus on core games now that they failed to get said casuals, but if they had succeeded, it would be another Wii.
Haven't you read the thread casual =/= easy. It's how much time you devote to videogames.
If game is simple and designed to be enjoyed in bursts of say 5-10 min or less it's a casual game.
1. That was Dawn Paine that made the antisocial teenager comment, not Shiggy-Diggy
2. Since when are "core gamer" and "anti-social teenager" synonyms for one another? Just because Paine said that shit doesn't mean Nintendo ever gave up on the core gamer crowd, just that they didn't want video games as a medium to only be something for "anti-social teenagers," as video games have often characterized as a whole because they were trying to sell the Wii to people who didn't normally play video games. But just because the marketing department focused on drawing in casuals doesn't mean they weren't producing products for the core crowd or that they were telling the core crowd to fuck off. Shiggy and friends often went through the trouble to tell their core crowd "N-no seriously, we haven't forgotten about you.
>How exactly does a tablet help hardcore games?
You'll never be able to do higher end things in Pikmin 3(like the collection challenges) or even get the best 100% completion times without the gamepad.
Many of it's advantages lean towards higher end play.
>not a bad thing
Agreed. The gamepad seems to be best at just inventory and map screens, and I think that's enough. Playing Wind Waker HD being able to just glance down at the map and switch items on the fly is the kind of small little thing that goes a long way towards immersion and overall enjoyment when I'm no longer pausing the game every 10 seconds.
>That is why it has "Wii" in the name
That part is the lie. Nintendo is lying to the casuals. The Wii U is not a Wii but they simply pasted the name with the conviction it would be enough to lure the casuals despite the system providing an experience that has nothing in common with the original Wii.
>and it is also why the tablet was included
The tablet was included because it made Nintendo ticks, not the audience.
>Thankfully with conferences like this it seems Nintendo is going back to their pre-Wii game, and I have hope. This could turn out quite well, they certainly have the money in store for experimentation.
They can talk all fucking day, I won't believe those zick-zack jumping DLC jews for one minute unless I see a brand new next-gen F-Zero that tops GX, inb4
>B-But that's impossibru!
yes I just said TOPS. Only then they will prove that they actually fucking care about hard(core) gamers and mean what they spout.
>Casual games are defined by their low levels of difficulty, complexity and depth. Casual very much does = easy.
I wouldn't be sure about those two. A very common thing with many modern games is you have layers of game of game mechanics making it more complex but the low difficulty renders it almost meaningless.
So we have easy games with complexity but little depth, especially in RPGs or games with RPG elements.
>implying the next zelda won't again be easy as fuck and full of handholding
>implying there will ever be a legitimately challenging mario game again
>implying the pokemon games will ever stop having AI that lets you win and a ridiculous amount of uneeded handholding
>implying their next console won't again use underpowered software
Nintendo fucking love casuals, it's their main audience since the Wii, and despite what they claim they are obviously still trying to target them with the Wii U. Nintendo said fuck you to actual gamers back with the Wii, now most of us have moved on. I'm happy with Sony and my shitty PC, so thanks but no thanks Shigeru.
I think it's more about simplicity & time invested than difficulty I'm sure there's tons of casual games with levels or shit we both couldn't complete (imagine extra difficult levels and such)
Saying a Mario game is casual is not correct technically.
The only reason they're saying this now is because Nintendo is a bunch of delusional dumbfucks who, despite evidence to the contrary and everyone warning them, thought they could hold onto an audience as fickle as the casual. Not realizing they move onto the newest trend at the drop of a hat so now Nintendo is in a position where they flipped off the hard core and now have to backtrack and take their foot out of their mouth after realizing oh shit hard core are the ones who stay around consistently.
>and that's not a bad thing.
Please stop droning so hard, kthxbye.
>I want my otherwise completely useless and inconvenient iPad knock-off controller to serve as a map because I'm an autistic fuck who hates pressing pause every 30 minutes. It's just SOOOOOOOOOOOOO ANNOYING OMFG WHO EVEN INVENTED THE PAUSE MENU??!!!
Nintendo simply doesn't and refuses to offer what most people are looking for in a nintendo console, that's why they are failing so fucking bad.
>no proper 3d mario for wii u
>no challenging, dark, zelda adventure with great graphics
>still no proper console pokemon rpg
>Nintendo have had to casualise their games if they wanted to do well in America (which is by far the most profitable country to sell video games in)
And yet LoZ outsold LttP by over 1 million units in the US alone. And it outsold SS (the most linear, can't get lost if you tried Zelda) by almost 2 million units.
You can play Monster Hunter with the Pro controller and use the tablet as a second mobile screen. I see absolutely no fault in that.
The only hardware defect the Wii U has is its lack of power compared to, say, the PS4.
Except Nintendo never really lost its hardcore fanbase. It's just they realized with the Wii U, or perhaps expected, that the only people who were going to buy it were their hardcore fanbase.
Before, the Wii was a such a fucking success that the hardcore fanbase was sort of on the periphery, mostly confined to the handheld market and some nice areas. Now that the casuals don't give a fuck, they're just going to use all the money they got off the casuals experiment and try new stuff.
>no proper 3d mario for wii u
No one cares enough about 3D Mario to make a system relevant.
>no challenging, dark, zelda adventure with great graphics
Now this is something people want.
>still no proper console pokemon rpg
What's the point? It would bomb.
your point on 3D mario is wrong, though. Consumers want a proper 2D mario made with a real budget and production values that fleshes out the universe more rather than just being a shoestring reskin of old stuff we've seen and played before.
The other 2 game examples are spot on, though.
>hey guys we fucked the Wii U
>but now we will save it! it was our plan all along
What kind of asshole holds the controller like that and intentionally makes it hard on themselves?
The way I hold the Gamepad(and by extension 3DS/DS) allows me to see the gamepad and TV without having to move my head.
This is exactly the same sort of bullshit people tried to stick the DS with back in 2003.
>hey, the map and inventory screens here on the gamepad are actually pretty convenient
>FUCK YOU YOU AUTISTIC FUCKING FUCK WHO HATES GAME DESIGN FUCK YOU ARE OBJECTIVELY WRONG FUCKING FUCK
>Consumers want a proper 2D mario made with a real budget and production values
You know it's not happening, Miyamoto considers it a casual product, he knows people want it and if he were to make it, then they'd want MORE. Miyamoto won't have any of that.
>no proper 3d mario for wii u
Pretty sure they've at least hinted that one is in the works. Something like 3D World wouldn't be the only Mario on Wii U, and we're also not getting another NSMB game either.
>no challenging, dark, zelda adventure with great graphics
The one we're getting looks great visually so far given its running on a fucking toaster, and anyone who wants a grimdark, edgy Zelda needs to just get fucked. MM and TP were as 'dark' as the series needs to be. And for all we know the story could touch on some more serious subject matter, we know nothing at all about it yet.
>still no proper console pokemon rpg
We're never going to get one, deal with it. Colosseum and XD were as close as we'll get. A console Pokemon also doesn't make a lot of sense in that half the point is trading and battling with other people, and its harder/less convenient to do that on a console.
One of these things is untrue for the hypothetical game in question.
A complex game (that is, a game with REAL, MEANINGFUL complexity, that is, rules that significantly deepen the game, not what I like to call "bloat" rules (fake complexity/convolution) like the high number of meaningless, pointless ways you can customize your units in grindfest SRPGs like in Final Fantasy Tactics or Disgaea (meaningless and pointless because the games are so easy that they never force you to employ a very high number of strategic unit customization) is BY DEFINITION a more difficult game to play and master, because you have to learn, understand and master all of these different rules. Consider Civilization, for example, one of the most complex games in existence. Consider the size of the manual, which is practically a small Bible.
You cannot have a complex, easy game, that simply isn't the way the relationship between complexity, depth and skill work.
>its running on a fucking toaster
The Wii U, while definitely not up to par with the PS4 and XBone, is actually quite a bit more powerful than people give it credit for. It should be given a sort of tech-demo game, something that shows us what it's fully capable of.
lol, "bullshit", more like "I don't understand how to get past a certain part of the game so I'm just going to give up and call the game imbalanced or unfair". I'd be intolerant of challenge too if I were an unskilled, lazy casual.
I agree that a home-console Pokemon isn't going to happen and isn't a particularly well thought-out idea, but it certainly wouldn't bomb. We get them on handhelds because the game is better suited to them and they print money. Making a direct competitor on console would eat into their handheld sales a bit. They're better off making spin-offs for consoles.
Where's my new Pokemon Snap, Nintendo? The gamepad would be perfect for taking pictures.
>A very common thing with many modern games is you have layers of game of game mechanics making it more complex
This is the "bloat" I'm talking about, which indeed renders complexity meaningless when many of the rules don't even matter, like the majority of spells you can use in Kingdom Hearts.
Sure but its still basically a toaster. You can get some nice-looking stuff on a low-end PC too if its optimized well, and anything made by Nintendo will obviously be very well-optimized.
>nd anyone who wants a grimdark, edgy Zelda needs to just get fucked.
I mean dark as in, it's a battle against evil forces trying to take over the world, yet none of the games in quite a while have felt like anything you are taking on is even remotely dangerous. Saving the world is a piece of cake. Increasing the difficulty would fix this a lot. I don't expect dark souls difficulty, but you have to admit the difficulty and handholding in Skyward sword especially was an absolute joke.
But it can, why can't it? The fucking 360 can run that shit. Developers just don't want to take the time to do more than a lazy port because they expect the returns to be so low. And they are, because it was a lazy, full-price port.
>isn't a particularly well thought-out idea
Are you retarded? A console Pokemon would benefit greatly from a more powerful machine that can render more complex, prettier looking worlds, and a control scheme that lends itself to more interesting, cooler ways to interact with that world, like freeform flight modes when using Fly with your Pokemon, or maybe changing the way wild Pokemon encounters work so that you actually had to hunt down Pokemon that you could physically see that may be trying to hide from you. There are a lot of ways a console Pokemon could be an amazing game.
you can have a complex easy TO PICK UP game.
DotA, Chess, Pokemon, hell even Solitaire has a complex layout and tons of casuals play that shit. If you want to play the game at the best level possible it's a different story and at that point, yes, you wouldn't be a casual player but there are still plenty of casuals that play these games lightly.
>I agree that a home-console Pokemon isn't going to happen and isn't a particularly well thought-out idea
There really is no reason why it couldn't be amazing with the right people making it. Whether you want it or not, to say that the world of pokemon is unfit for an rpg/adventure game is just silly.
>Where's my new Pokemon Snap, Nintendo?
Again, nintendo doesn't give a shit what you want. Expect as shitty spinoff game that involves importing pokemon from the 3ds and dressing them up instead.
Well I also said the game could touch on more mature themes and whatnot, we have no idea yet. Difficulty was never really why I played Zelda though. Exploration (within reason) and puzzles were the big draw. I don't think the combat needs to be any harder than it was at its peak difficulty, maybe just a little deeper with more moves and combos similar to what WW and TP tried to do. I thought the puzzles and dungeons in SS were largely up to snuff, though perhaps a little on the easy side.
Because WiiU multiplats are the worst selling of all the platforms, that's why. WiiU basically has the Cell of this gen. I don't think it's actually hard to work with, but it requires additional effort that isn't justified by the sales.
If you really think that all these people would come out of the woodwork to buy WiiU multiplats if devs did something like add back multiplayer for Sniper Elite, then you're delusional.
>arcades were quarter sucking machines which had to be artificially difficult to make money
I wish you people would stop being retarded.
Most of the arcade games people care about and remember were hard as shit, but almost entirely fair about it.
The thing is, the wii u is supposed to be competing with the ps4 and xbone, not the 360 and ps3. That's pretty much the problem, they are a gen behind and too stupid to realize or care.
Nintendo is well known as being a bitch to develop for, it's not necessarily lazy developers, it might just look like that from our perspective. Read that interview about the early Wii U coding where they had to wait like 30 minutes or whatever it was every time they wanted to test code, and how online didn't show up until about a month before release.
Nintendo will never sell multiplats unless they stop making underpowered consoles that play the games twice as bad as the competition does. I know the gamecube didn't get many either, but that was a fuckup for other reason, namely the god awful design and domination of the ps2.
>DotA, Chess, Pokemon, hell even Solitaire
All games that aren't even that complex. And yes, that INCLUDES Chess, the many variants of which are more or less complex as the rules call for it, such as Shogi which allows the players to return a captured piece to their side of the board upon reaching the opposing end of the game board. Anyway, what you are talking about is accessibility, which is different from what we're talking about. I don't give a shit how many casuals "casually" play Civilization, that has nothing to do with anything.
>Making a direct competitor on console would eat into their handheld sales a bit.
Considering how nintendo is desperate for wiiu sales and that the 3ds, despite not selling as well as the ds and they'd have you think it a failure as such, is doing quite fine, a main pokemon game on the wiiu to give it a guaranteed millions of sales is what they could stand to do right now.
But rendering more complex, prettier worlds and an intuitive control scheme isn't really what Pokemon games have been about or set out to do. That's my point, the strengths a home console brings to the table aren't really what Pokemon is built around. Its more about the social interaction and collecting shit. Creating an immersive world where you can control your flying Pokemon or chase down a Pidgey before you catch it isn't really what the makers of these games are trying to do and its not the direction the series is (and has been) going in.
Handhelds make the most sense because Pokemon is more and more about interacting with other players. trading and battling with other people is a lot easier on a handheld than a home console, and you can take it and trade/battle anywhere, not just when you're at home on the internet.
Again, I'd love to see some more spin-offs on consoles, games that perhaps might involve some of those mechanics or features you're talking about. A Pokemon Snap game that involves the player having to track and hunt a Pokemon, sneak up to it and take a photo would be really, really cool. The world could easily be very detailed and immersive without taking anything away from the core gameplay ideals.
The dungeons in SS were probably my favorite part, I thought a lot of them were very well laid out, especially the Desert one with the interesting time-shift stones. Shame the boss monsters were on the retarded side (perhaps the entire Zelda team burned themselves out for life on the TP boss in that temple you get the spinner in), but hell, I had fun with the whole thing. I do hope Zelda U goes a bit more on the mature side I agree, and more difficulty options than child and hero mode would be a step in the right direction.
So what you are basically saying is that the Wii U gamepad is absolutely useless aside from serving as a map display for retards that are too anal about pressing pause for 2 secs
Nintendo probably always consciously knew the casual market was a fickle market, but just saw that nobody was tapping into that market at the time and decided to jump at it, especially given the nature of its competition. It's easier to convince mom to buy a video game system if you sell it as "hey, you can play too."
And this tactic was successful for the time being and now Nintendo is going to shift some of its focus. I don't see the problem here. Besides, Wii Fit and other stuff like that is probably going to stay with us either way. So they're not giving up on the casual market altogether, just not as concerned with the wider approach they had going with the Wii these last few years cause that's not gonna yield the same sort of return.
>The thing is, the wii u is supposed to be competing with the ps4 and xbone, not the 360 and ps3.
Is it though? The feeling I'm getting from Nintendo these days is they are still trying to appeal to particular markets where they can make money without having to worry about competing with Sony and Microsoft. They got the Wii stuff designed for the more gamers who probably aren't interested in stuff like Call of Duty and are fine with family and party titles, they've got all the more core titles geared towards their fanboy market, and they're still untouchable in the handheld market when it comes to either hardcore or casual gamers.
At this point, I think they're just concerned with staying within their own market, not trying to move too much into Sony and Microsoft's waters. It's why they're still making Wii Fit and Wii Sports and now trying to pump out weeb games.
>WiiU basically has the Cell of this gen
No, it doesn't. It's just Wii 2.0, devs avoid it despite it being able to run last-gen multiplats (you know, those games that ACTUALLY run on the Cell?) just fine. The Wii U isn't stupidly complicated to develop for, and that's what the Cell was notorious for. Bayonetta looked and ran poorly on the PS3, but it looks great on Wii U so far. Even seems like they fixed the majority of the framerate issues.
Multiplats sell poorly because they're largely overpriced and poorly optimized. Why would anyone buy Batman on Wii U for $60 when its half that on 360 and PS3 and runs better? Why would anyone buy ME3 for fucking $60 when the entire goddamn trilogy is on 360 for $40? the makers of these multiplats put zero effort into the Wii U ports and then turned around and complained about their games selling poorly.
There actually was direction, just they did it in the right way instead of just telling you you can't go there unless you do this first. Instead, they just put a rock, or a dark cavern, or an ocean in the way so you have to get the item from the dungeon first. And once you get the item from the dungeon, why not finish the dungeon?
Personally, I think that's brilliant game design.
Not that guy, but I really didn't like any of the dungeons in SS.
It was the same stale modern Zelda formula of:
>can only go one way because you don't have the dungeon item
>get dungeon item
>progress through rooms in a linear fashion solving babby tier puzzles along the way
>combat and navigation kept extremely easy and to a minimum
>beat easy boss with dungeon item
Except in SS, you don't even get to solve any of the babby tier puzzles for yourself. Fi will give you the solution every time before you even get a chance to think about what to do.
I'll concede that, cel-shading ages really well, and I won't deny that it looks great too. I just felt that the graphics worked really well with TP's general atmosphere and all.
This, Nintendo realized they couldn't keep trying to appeal exclusively to the same small crowd of 'core' gamers after the N64 and GC. Too much competition, too few customers.
So they wanted to draw in new customers with the Wii and DS. Maybe after playing things like Wii Fit or Brain Age, some people would be interested in playing 'real' video games. Iata even recently said the launch of the other two consoles was good for Nintendo because it gets more people interested in and talking about video games in general. Anyone who buys a PS4 might still buy a Wii U because it offers completely different games.
I think they had the right idea at the time given just making core games wasn't working too well for them. Widening their appeal to get more people in general interested in video games with the idea that maybe some of them would become 'core' gamers and make it a hobby they actively partake in was probably the best thing they could have done.
I suppose it was too good to be true. The only time I can remember where Nintendo abandoned the core was with Wii Whatever, Nintendogs, Cooking Mama and Pikmin
fuck you it's casual
Super Mario Galaxy 2, Kid Icarus Uprising, Skyward Sword... Honestly, it always seemed like they made more games for core gamers than any other developer. I don't know where the "casual" label comes from, Super Mario 3D World is the kind of game where if your jump is slightly off, you fall, die and have to do it again. Compared to Crysis 2, Batman or whatever where you're basically invincible, it's clearly the more hardcore game
>Fi will give you the solution every time before you even get a chance to think about what to do
Again, I found the whole game generally enjoyable, hell I even enjoyed The Imprisoned fights (if only for that satisfying moment at the end where you get to take the sealing spike, slash a symbol into it, and drive it back into the ground), but Fi doing things like that did legitimately piss me off. Let me solve the puzzle myself, Fi!
Listening to CDs on their PS1s and watching DVDs on their PS2s, that's where.
I agree, Nintendo catered to 'core' gamers for years and it simply stopped working. N64 sold like 30 million and GC a little over 20. Meanwhile, Sony's platforms sold like hotcakes and everyone gushed over their media-playback gimmicks and casual shovelware arrived in droves.
>Aonuma doesn't like that style.
Well, I don't like that Aonuma's style. I just wish all those old fucks of Nintendo would die already or step down. Miyamoto and co. are holding the company down.
>Guy who made 8-Airship
>Abandoning the core
He secretly wishes to see you suffer.
Aonuma also doesn't like zelda 1 and 2 even though they were both smash hits, both largely focused on combat and made the series popular.
And zelda 2 was a hit, no matter how much aonuma and miyamoto deny it and say that its the "black sheep" of the series.
What kills Twilight Princess's look for me is the excessive amounts of brown and bloom.
Ocarina of Time and especially Majora's Mask managed to have exaggerated but not outright cartoony characters, and a decent amount of detail, much like TP, but they also managed to have color and not hurt to look at. I think in a lot of ways they hold up much better than TP, visually, despite the obvious technical limitations.
>Shiggy has officially joined /v/
>implying he hasn't always been with /v/
Shiggy is pretty much universally considered one of the holiest patron saints of game developers, he transcends any one game forum.
No one person can claim any achievements that were team efforts.
Except Shiggy, because he was replaced on the Mario team and instead made Doki Doki Panic while the other guys made Lost Levels.
Miyamoto doesn't dislike Zelda II or think it did poorly. I'm tired of this misconception.
An interviewer asked which game he'd worked on he was most disappointed with, and he said Zelda II, because unlike with pretty much every other game he's ever worked on the design of the game did not evolve much beyond its initial concept, mostly due to limitations of the Famicom Disk System.
He just wishes they could have done more with the game.
It's slower and more tedious in the 3D games, generally.
Twilight Princess sort of fixed this by letting you run around while swinging your sword, but Skyward Sword got rid of this good change so you're right back to stopping every time you swing your sword.
Going through NES games, it's always kind of humbling to me how small some of those dev teams were. I know the games were a lot simpler, but I imagine that teams that small offered a level of synergy and camaraderie that modern AAA teams don't get to experience.
>1 level designer
>Still the most systematically complex and gameplay varied game on the NES
>stay away from integrating heavily with social media and player accounts cause casuals would just want to play their game right away back then
>stay away from integrating heavily with social media and player accounts cause hardcore gamers would just want to play their game right away now
NoA has been pretty adamant about trying to retain the Wii's now nonexistent audience, but I think Reggie and pals are finally figuring out that they caught lightning in a bottle and need to switch gears.
>Why do people keep screaming "nintendo abandoned the core?
That's my favorite part
The gamecube was 100% gaming machine, and people still bitched about there being a no dvd machine
Do you have a source for this?
I was under the impression Kensuke Tanabe directed Doki Doki Panic, SMB2 (USA), and the prototype both were based on, and Shiggy's involvement was largely just an advisory one, and didn't even extend to the prototype.
I'm also fairly certain Miyamoto was very much involved with Lost Levels' development.
>I think they had the right idea at the time given just making core games wasn't working too well for them. Widening their appeal to get more people in general interested in video games with the idea that maybe some of them would become 'core' gamers and make it a hobby they actively partake in was probably the best thing they could have done.
And this is probably what Miyamoto is more than a little upset about in the interview in OP's link.
I think the way Miyamoto saw it, by appealing to the more casual market and selling Nintendo to people who had never really played games before, they would become more interested in video games and then from playing Wii Sports and other stuff they might grow more interested in greater challenges and horizons that video games as an medium offered, realizing how easy it is to dip into this world of entertainment that probably seemed overwhelming or like a niche thing. I think that was a good thing, especially at the time. It got more people talking about video games as something every family should have in their own alongside their dvd collection and would prevent it from just being the domain of twenty something year old men and teenagers.
What I think Miyamoto is realizing is that while this did possibly save the company, it did not necessarily create a large new generation of gamers both young and old with a deeper appreciation for video games as an art or as a fun and healthy hobby for the whole family. Nintendo made huge bucks off the casuals, probably enough to keep the company afloat for years to come (as long as they still rule handhelds) but few of the casuals they drew in with the Wii became committed gamers. I don't think Nintendo really did anything wrong here, but I think they put a little too much confidence in the casual market to stop being so casual.
Do you have a source for that? I don't think I can relocate the interview since it was in full moonspeak, but the fact that shiggy includes all the doki doki panic enemies and features in other mario games suggests he feels it's his creation.
>Consumers want a proper 2D mario made with a real budget and production values that fleshes out the universe more rather than just being a shoestring reskin of old stuff we've seen and played before.
Horseshit, NSMB and NSMBW are just reskins yet they're Nintendo's best selling games of all time behind MKWii (not counting launch date game giveaways like wii sports and SMB). That just told Nintendo that people don't want a good Mario, just the old 2d garbage again and again.
DVD was a really, really big deal at the time, also the idea of consoles as multimedia machines was still fresh and unexplored, so the core audience was still largely excited about it.
They'll never learn. They have to be introduced and initiated into gaming by someone that knows what they're doing. If they try to get into it themselves they'll just run into a brick wall and quit.
>but muh blue ocean strategy
They tried it again with the 3DS and the Wii U, and it failed. 3DS is selling because it is a Nintendo handheld, and Wii U isn't selling because it doesn't have any games. In both cases Nintendo were hoping the gimmick would attract the casuals.
Now that the casuals are gone, Nintendo is desperately trying to cater back to the core market they abandoned, even having Miyamoto jump onto the "casuals are so lame, amirite" bandwagon.
So much pandering. It's embarrassing.
Oh fuck right off, its overworld was the emptiest thing in the fucking industry, the game forced you to do extremely tedious bug hunts everytime you entered a new area and the wolf form was barebones as hell. The dungeons were extremely bland and tedious, especially the goron one where half the time you had to move at a snail's pace walking in the walls/roof with the magnetic boots. The bosses were even more pathetic than OoT's, especially the water one. Also it has the worst and most offensive ''twist'' in all of Nintendo's history, shitting out the new villain for yet again Ganondorf, who doesn't even resemble his infinitely better, WW incarnation and TP Ganondorf's fights are also dissappointingly mediocre and anti-climatic.
It's like the only good thing the game had was Midna, such a shame she had to be part of such aberration, not as bad as SS though.
>and Wii U isn't selling because it doesn't have any games.
Neither does the PS4 and it's selling like hotcakes. Nintnedo can still turn around the Wii U with a refocused marketing campaign, and getting Shiggy to talk about how much Nintendo loves the hardcore crowd is a good first step. After all, the only demographic more gullible than casual gamers is hardcore gamers.
>the only demographic more gullible than casual gamers is hardcore gamers.
Except casual gamers aren't gullible, they don't give a fuck what these companies say, they just play what they think is fun.
Casual gamers are more hardcore than "hardcore" gamers because they actually enjoy the medium they're being entertained by
Suck it, gaymurs.
It's all sort of hazy, but it doesn't sound like Miyamoto was too seriously involved.
Actually Nintendo can't satisfy Casual Gamers by the Wii U and 3DS games.
It's time to change a maketing plan and the ideal target now is the sect of hardcore gamers.
I could tackle everything you've said individually but it's much easier to just say your taste is massively shit. TP is one of the best 3D Zeldas of all time, and had the best boss of all time (the skeleton monster thing in the sand temple with the spinner).
Or that they just don't give a shit about the 3d marios that nintendo keeps hyping up and putting massive budgets into.
I can only imagine how awkward the shareholder meetings must be when nintendo tries to explain to the shareholders why they keep trying to make 3d mario games a thing when 2d mario games have always and continue to sell far, far more than any 3d mario game.
Context is everything. There hadn't been a new 2D mario in ages. The last main 2D mario game on a console was Super Mario World in 1991. NSMBW came out in 2009. That's an 18-year gap. THe consumers were starving for ANY new 2D mario.
Notice how they didn't come out in droves for NSMB2 or NSMBU. They learned that Nintendo had no plans to actually flesh out 2D mario beyond factory-made horseshit and chose not to buy it in the same numbers as the first 2 NSMB titles.
At the time, I think so. DVD players were really expensive in 2000, and the PS2 offered a cheaper alternative. The DVD player was icing on the cake to a lot of people, including the core crowd. The PS2 also had a good early lineup, so that didn't hurt things either.
I'm just saying that for all that the hardcore claim to be enlightened or on a higher level of gaming standards, they sure fall for the same cheap gimmicks and hype that they claim the "casuals" fall under.
Video games have always suffered from much of the same syndrome as anime and comics, in that their image, at least in the West, is generally associated with anti-social behavior and it's usually seen as something for kids and nerds. Nintendo helped to sort of break that image by showing video games as something that could bring people together, could even be educational, blah blah blah. All this was good for the image of video games as a whole, I think. Before, buying a video game console was a waste of money, something you just bought for your kids as a birthday present. Nintendo helped to sell video games as something everyone should be able to enjoy and as something people could buy as a way having more family time. Dinner time at the family table would be replaced by video game time in the living room. Mom and Dad wouldn't tell their kid they were wasting their time with their new game but ask questions about it.
What Shiggy probably was hoping for was that in the process this would create new army of core gamers who not only played party games with their family or indulged in some puzzles to pass the time while commuting across town to their job, but also let's just say developed a new curiosity and appreciation for something like Zelda. But as the years went by, Shiggy probably looked around the room and saw that the only people left were a handful of newbies, a few hipsters, but by and large the same people who had already been buying Zelda for years, just now maybe followed by some other members of their family who like anon >>260231023 who they initiated into Nintendo's world. The rest of the casuals moved on to new and cheaper thrills like Candy Crush. And of course the dudebros stuck with their COD.
I don't think Nintendo will ever drop the family fun shtick, but it has probably realized that it can only truly rely on niche markets of weebs and long time Nintendo fans for brand loyalty.
I'll believe it when I see it.
So far, making Wii Music and loading up all of your consoles with shitty gimmicks isn't proving anything.
Right, and Microsoft also cares about the core too
from a business stand point i think it's the wrong approach
it might toughen up some of the new casual gamers brought in by the Wiipocalypse and maybe a new generation of young hardcore gamer can come about
>Again, nintendo doesn't give a shit what you want.
I know. I'm never going to see a new F-Zero. Why even live.