To all of the fighting game community, why isn't Smash Bros consider as a fighting game?
Because it's a fucking party game. I have over 10,000 hours in Smash since the 64, I've gone on 2,000 victory strikes. I'm fucking obsessed with the game but I can recognize it's a party game.
Because is not a game
And characters in it don't fight eachother
furthermore you don't win the fight if you kill your opponent
I'm a tourney level player for SF4 and I've played in a few Smash tournaments - I do fairly well.
The smash fanbase is far more autistic and unable to adapt to change. It's true that their game isn't a true fighting game, there is not enough emphasis on learning the game (ie being skilled at it) and being able to pull off great combos while also exploring the meta when not on the field. Smash doesn't have that.
Skill ceiling is way too fucking high for it to be one. The amount of tactical depth is fucking incredible. I've a friend who's a goddamn neurosurgeon and even he's too slow for Melee's techgame. It's far and away the most advanced "fighter" (though I don't refer to it as such) to have ever existed, and I'm not sure if one on its level will ever exist ever again.
>Percentage and knock off level
>Simplicity of command input
It just has so much in it screaming "This does not fit the fighting game genre"
Because it doesn't have set health bars and the core gameplay and controls are very different.
Also because the FGC naturally seeks to shit on games it deems less "hardcore" and Smash's colorful graphics, characters, and inclusion of items and stage hazards makes it a prime target
I love how this is the only game where /v/ thinks it's okay to play casually at. This game is and has been a part of the FGC for years now. Deal with it and don't watch Evo if you're so asspained about it being a real fighting game. The skill cap is just as high as SF3 because it's based on reading your opponent and reacting quickly.
Non-transferable skill-set. Playing smash for 10 years will teach you virtually nothing about playing any real fighting game.
Playing Super Turbo for 10 years though, you'll be very comfortable picking up almost any real fighting game in a very short space of time.
The fighting community is so exclusive it only considers games fighting games if they're one-on-one battles using health bars in a static environment with no obstacles where you can only move on a 2D plane. I've seriously heard arguments that Soul Calibur isn't a fighting game because you can move in 3 dimensions.
If you're good at Age of Empires, you can pick up pretty much any other RTS, understand the fundamentals and adapt very quickly after picking up the meta.
If you're good at Smash... you're just good at Smash.
Because the community evolved from a different path. When people started taking SSB and SSBM more seriously and get better at it, there wasn't that much influx from other fighting games, mostly due to the fact that the games are on Nintendo consoles, which doesn't have a lot to offer to fighting gamers other wise, but only because the control scheme is so different and you play with an analog stick. That divide caused a lot of issues, like the more serious fighting players that only want to play this for fun, as if other fighting games aren't fun, and contempt for the people who wanted to take the game further because there's an already established srs business fighting game scene.
There's nothing wrong with liking or playing SMB, just stop trying to convince me that it's a fighter.
No one needs to justify their enjoyment by trying to prove that it's on the same competitive level as a decent FG.
Some characters simply don't need it, like Pikachu.
Some characters it would be hard to do without fucking things up, like Link.
But for Villager, Mario, and Mega Man, yes, their pose tries to be the same depending on what direction you're facing.
"Party game" isn't even a fucking genre, I don't know why people keep throwing that term out there.
Smash isn't really a "fighting game" in the traditional sense, if anything it's pretty much its own genre.
It's not a genre but it's a term for games you can play with your friends without utterly destroying them in 2 seconds, which Smash Brothers games aren't at all if you ask me.
When played with tournament rules (which are well-established and accepted by the tourney community), Smash Bros is a fighting game.
When played under any other circumstances, Smash Bros is a party brawler.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
Fighting games take skill. thats pretty much the gist of it.
Skill tree ( Hardest to pleb tier)
>King of Fighters
>Any of those faggy weaboo fighters like BB or some indie shit
>Tekken 6/ Street fighter 4
>Killer Instinct=Mortal kombat
> Anything else like soulcalibur and Dead or alive, which is just like who can tap the fastest.
> Super Smash bros melee.
TT2 and MVC3 harder than Street Fighter/ Kof.
Son shut the fuck up, you don't know a thing about fighting games.
You have to do so much to the core game to even try to come close to a fighting game and it's pathetic.
You have to remove stages that aren't pure single platforms, you have to make sure no stage hazards are there(imagine removing sand traps in golf tournaments), you have to remove items, you have to remove characters. I'm not talking Boss Characters. Those are understandable, but banning regular characters(Metaknight) because they're "baww! Too tough to beat!" is just fucking silly.
Now here. Have some Gill.
I'm not sure I really care what arbitrary genre the games can be shoehorned into, but the overall competitive potential is an aspect that (some) smash games share with more traditional, SF type fighters. Melee in particular. I'm not sure I've ever seen a game that requires the same technical skill, speed, and precision to play 1v1 melee at a competitive level. On the other hand, yeah, playing free for all brawl with items on fucking pokefloats or some shit is obviously too big of a random clusterfuck to even feel good about if you win.
No one free of autism or other assorted mental disorders is ever going to claim that Soul Calibur or other 3D FG's aren't fighters. No one who knows what they're talking about would say that MVC or any team based game isn't a fighter, that's bullshit.
You heard one or two idiots spout stupid shit and labeled everyone else the same.
>every stage plays the same
>every character too to an extent
>millions of different versions of the same fucking game
>better than smash bros
You just listed party game categories. kek. Go learn SF4, I bet you can't do a single FADC combo.
Except only about half the stages get banned and the most popular competitive stage is battlefield, not final destination. (battle field has 3 platforms). The meta knight ban lasted only a couple months and that was the only character ban to ever even happen since competitive smash started in 2005, so saying characters are banned is just dumb.
A certain sect of the FGC is dumb about this. The appeal of competition for fighting games is supposed to be about reading your opponent, predicting their moves, and beating them tactically.
And then a bunch of loud autists who can't even place in major tournaments just want fighting games to have high input barriers -- because competition should be less about mind games and more about how many hours you spent practicing a complicated combo.
I wouldn't watch a single FG tournament if it were some lame ass combo showcase. But the mindgames and footsies in the finals of a major tournament for SF4 -- or, yes, Melee -- is fucking amazing to watch.
Nigger I love Virtua Fighter and Street Fighter.
You'll be hard pressed to find two franchises more different, but I can still understand why they're grouped in the same genre.
As a tourneyfag from melee, cs, tfc, tf2 (the comp scene used to be cool... Before engi update)
Fgc hates melee cause it doesn't have complicated inputs. That's it. The inputs are too simple and the arena too different.
Despite the simpler inputs combos are harder cause 90% are improv which is harder than dial a combo.
For the sake of balancing how it's classified.
When considered as a fighting game, Smash is either completely unbalanced (items and stage bias and such) thus shit or pretty damn boring (no items, fox only, final destination) thus shit.
When considered as a party game, it's pretty fun.
It's a sort of middle ground which communicates the game better. Hell, the term party game is basically a middle ground anyway.
It IS considered a fighting game and gets tons of respect+viewers during EVO
the "it's a p-p-party game guys!" is a maymay created by casuals who are mad people are better at the game than they are.
I don;t care if these guys love smash but stop crying all the time about this
No one even its creator consider it a fighter, so why is this assblasted fanbase so whiny about it all the time
Only children or.. manchildren whine this much
A good Melee player has a far more advanced knowledge of spacing, footsies, and hitbox detection than most SF players of the same skill level.
Also Melee and KOF are actually fairly transferable, though KOF has a generally higher skill floor.
>gets a ton of respect
The only reason it's even at EVO is because years ago there were whiny little manchildren like you who wouldn't stop crying about being let in
No one really considers it a figher, even its creator
No go do your homework and you can play for 20 minutes
Did you Watch tekken at Evo this year?
Most Street fighter players would be amazed.
Typical pro Streetfighter match (If its not snakeeyez or fucking fuudo or some yun or whatever,)
>"HADOUKEN" "TIGER SHOT" SPIRALFLARE"
"Fierce standing poke"
>"HADOUKEN TIGER SHOT SPIRAL FLARE"
>" watch that anti air/get a dp in there
>"Oh wow 4 hit plink so skill"
>Time up corner tactics
>rinse and repeat.
That Rose vs Sagat fight at EVO Made me fucking sick
Typical Tekken Match:
>holy fucking shit what the fuck is going on
didn't help samurai said it was a party game.
I believe smash is a competitive game none the less, for god sakes they have competitive monopoly.
Horse shoes, they throw fucking metal at a rod is competitive.
I'm just saying anything can be competitive , no matter what the original purpose. Also I don't think they would have held a huge smash tourney because they felt it was just a "party" game too
Where am I wrong?
Genre names exist to classify and communicate the basics of what a game is. Party game fits Smash Bros. better than Fighting game. Party Brawler if you want to go sub with it.
>implying a FG tournament should be a combo showcase with "complicated inputs" to determine the winner
These faggots must be bored as hell when they watch grand finals at any SF4 major and it's 99% footsies and spacing games.
>mfw people say Smash is not competitive
>even though it basically revived EVO and brings in the most money
metaknight hasn't been banned in a tourney in brawl (lmfao fucking brawl) since 2008
It's always nice to see fuckers like you on here who try to talk about shit they know nothing about
Like you said, "It's pathetic."
>implying anyone with a high enough IQ to comprehend mind games could play more than 10 minutes of Tekken without getting bored.
It's like you think skill is defined by "who can dial a combo faster"
The Smash Bros Pro Scene is considered casual by other Pro Scenes.
Its easy to play other fighting games, find the kids playing smash, be the new face for awhile and take there money since they have no mind games other then " muh l-cancel and muh c stick". Edge guarding also ruins smash bros, which is how i make all 90% of my wins. I main Jiggly Puff and abuse J+NA
The game at the core is not a fighting game, but when you pretty much strip it of most of its features, it resembles that of... well, still not a traditional fighting game, but I guess some kind of action platform game.
I don't think that's a valid point. Injustice has those.
>simplicity of command input
>I am fucking retarded: The post
Party game doesn't fit Smash Bros since it doesn't play like Mario Party.
And I meant the NO ITEMS, FINAL DESTINATION, FOX ONLY part too.
>t-they don't ban him anymore so your point is null!
You're fucking retarded. My argument still stands. They still went out of their way to ban someone because he was "baww! Too tough!"
Now go on and continue begging Evo to keep accepting Melee.
>Non-transferable skill-set. Playing smash for 10 years will teach you virtually nothing about playing any real fighting game.
Yeah and Halo, COD and Counter-Strike teach you absolutely nothing you can use elsewhere (or worse, teach you tactics that wont work).
Guess none of those are FPSs!
>Only plays Casual fightan's,
>Cant imagine a fundamental Parry system
>designed to stop the dialing of combos.
So, do you main Fox or Falco?
First of all, not all smash games are the same. Melee is incredibly fast paced, difficult, and precise. Whereas Brawl and smash 4 are not. I think its safe to say that Melee is a fighting game while the others are party games.
No, I was talking about a decently sized tournament. The smash side was admittedly bigger then the SF4 and Tekken participants combined.
It was like taking candy from casual babbies from then on.
Actually to anyone in the know, the smash scene has been largely accepted by the fgc for at least a couple of years.
There charity funding for an evo spot, consistent attendance and passion for the game earnt the respect of streamers like Spooky and players like Jwong.
In case you didn't realise, real opinions are subject to change and are not as static as your memes.
Are you really using some absolutely retarded analogy about a knife?
The creator said it's a party game/brawler, most know this to be true but some assblasted fanatics of the party game claim to know better?
What a bunch of whiny tryhards
You're like the little brother who snitches to his mom that his older brother wont let him play
Figures that'd be the case with smash kiddies
>Sub-genre of fighting game
They are fighting games.
DoA has hazards
SC has ring outs
Tekken and DoA have terrain which can be used to advantage
It's a fighting game. The lack of healthbars is moot, otherwise Bushido Blade would not be considered a fighting game
I was implying that TekkenT2 had such a diverse set of things happening at once, I couldntt possible consider everything. Where in Smash it would be " look, hes got him in that chain grab again"
>To all of the fighting game community, why isn't Smash Bros consider as a fighting game?
but the fgc does consider it a fighting game
smash is like one of the top games at evo, and every time I go, people love it there.
only people who bitch about it being a party/fighting game are people on /v/
It is a fighting game, there is no reason it can't be. I don't even play the games, but its obvious they are.
>But you kill people by knocking them out of the stage
Soul Calibur allows you to do this
>But you do combos by juggling, not by chaining moves together
>But Sakurai said...
Sakurai and nintendo are horribly deluded when it comes to the competitive aspects of their games. I appreciate the man and his work, but this is the guy who added tripping to the game, and then turns around and adds final destination versions of every stage. Nigga is high as fuck.
>Yeah but you can play with 4 people
You can do that in plenty of fighting games. SFxT comes to mind instantly
>But items and shit
Marvel has a mode where you use cards to make people OP, you just don't use them.
It requires the same amount of skill as other fighters and contains 99% of the things they do. Footsies, spacing, momentum, combos, counter picks, and stocks are basically rounds using the Injustice/KI style where you retain your health/percent.
Fox is considered the best character in Meele. He won less than 1\3 of the tournaments.
Meta Knight won 2\3 of all tournaments in Brawl
>The creator said it's a hammer, most know this to be true but some assblasted fanatics of the knife claim to know better?
What a bunch of whiny tryhards
You're like the little brother who snitches to his mom that his older brother wont let him play
go to a real tournament, everyone is annoyed by and avoids the smash players and most tournaments shove them in a corner because of how smelly and loud they are
smash fags also don't enter any other games, so calling them part of the community is wrong
Injustice's hazards were designed with competition in mind. Nothing that randomly fucks you over. If you know your positioning on the stage, you can control it. In Smash, an item just falls randomly and LOLKO.
>go to a real tournament, everyone is annoyed by and avoids the smash players and most tournaments shove them in a corner because of how smelly and loud they are
that's just plain untrue. I mean I get that you are trying to bait with the whole "smelly and loud" thing but smash is a fun game to play and watch at any fgc event, and a ton of people love it.
It's just /v/, I've played Tekken, SF and SC for years and I consider Smash a fighter, so do other people I know. Just because it doesn't have the same skillset doesn't mean it's not applicable as a fighter. There's very little transfer between SF and SC for instance.
I had a whole post and argument all thought out.
What the fuck was I thinking, the smash kiddies on /v/ wouldn't read it any of it anyways. If half the smash players had to be semi competent at atleast one other fighting game that wasn't PSA:BR, they would quit smash altogether.
To be honest, Marvel takes a lot of skill in the sense that you need extreme mental fortitude to put up with the bullshit and stupidity in that game. You can play the most honest game against some teams, then come up against a mongoloid playing Wolverine/Doom/Vergil and have to change your entire mindset more than any other game would force.
Unfortunately it is true. Maybe not the smelly part, but other game players tend to avoid the smash corner. They are usually loud and rude. And no, not a lot of people come to watch smash. They usually do it if there are no other games going on
The skill cap is considerably higher in melee than any other fighting game I play, and the game is a huge part of the FGC. That being said, I still don't consider it a fighting game because it doesn't have the same mechanics that any other fighting game has. It's it's own thing. It's a great series, and welcome in the FGC, but most people wouldn't consider it a fighting game.
>They usually do it if there are no other games going on
Yeah. I wouldn't let the streams fool you. Hell, even a lot of streams have a small audience unless SSB is the only game being played.
>mfw plenty of Smash players would still debate this
At least we're not on Smashboards, this would get slammed before eventually being deleted
Even weaboo shit requires more skill than MVC3, Faggot. Let me fix this shit.
KOF (2002 and 1998)
SSF III (due parry mechanics)
TT2/Pre 6 Tekken games
Guilty Gear (any)
Tekken 6/SSF4 (too slow)
Killer instinct/ Mortal Kombat (simple imputs)
Skull Girls/Garou and other SNK stuff.
Samurai Showdown/Last Blade (Large Recover frames)
MVC3 (tons of unbalanced characters, cheesy moves)
Soul Calibur/Dead or Alive/Blaz Blue/ (button mashers can win easily)
Smash (Not Fighting game)
>Teams possible but not necessary
>Built around the idea of groups having fun
>Inherently entertaining for spectators
Prove to me that it's a knife or just stop with your conjecture.
People don't want it to be a fighting game because they can't accept that Smash is more popular than the entire fighting game genre. They hate the fact that their genre is dead and the most popular game in it isn't a street fighter clone.
Canada has a decently size fighting game community. Especially if you live in the top three cities in the country. The Smash Community around here is fucking Huge, Booming. A plethora of neckbeardos and man children. They dont play anything else, They dont talk about anything else. It really is Final Destination all the time and you are lucky if you get to see Shiek. Smash bros has a very low skill ceiling, so it attracts many clique sorts of betas ( the tumblr and reddit/4chan group of this generation) You cannot prove a thing to these people.
Try some fighting games please
Fair enough. But then you get the issue with stuff like the Yellow Devil in Smash 4 and the F-Zero stage in Melee.
It ends up being
>standing here gets me actively punished by the stage for no reason other than just because, my opponent didn't even have to force an error in anything other than my spacing
while in Injustice
>standing here puts me at risk of an extended interactable combo or tool, at least nothing will randomly come and break the flow of the match by slapping everyone's shit for no reason
he wasn't doing "one thing". There are eight different versions of his fireball, and knowing when to use which one is paramount to keeping Rose from jumping, focus dashing, reflecting, or using her own EX.
>getting fundamentals down in 3 days
If you mean technical shit, it still takes time to be able to do it consistently, and it takes even more time to be able to apply it. In general, yeah. The technical stuff isn't terribly hard.
Games like Smash Bros., Power Stone or Budokai Tenkaichi are in a subgenre of fighting games called "arena fighters." This has to do with the arena you play on, which operates under different mechanics and/or win conditions than a normal versus game.
They're not fighting games strictly speaking and they definitely aren't beat 'em ups, which is a different genre altogether (i.e. Double Dragon, God Hand)
It's more of a party brawler than a fighting game. Party brawlers can consist of up to 4 players that battle each other on relatively big maps that may or may not have stage hazards with the added benefit of using fun items to have an advantage over the enemy.
Regular fighting games are 2 players tops on a small map that offers little to almost no movement. These fighting games allow you to do a wider variety of combos while sacrificing a larger portion of horizontal and vertical movement. These fightan games also have no items whatsoever to keep players on their toes.
>nobody literally role plays in a roleplayig game
>somehow still called "rpg"
Smash Bros is as much as a fighter as SF, MK, MvC and Tekken. While not a traditional fighter, it's still a fighting game to its core
>But Sakurai calls it a party game
He also called it a fighter multiple times and devs have well. Problem is people twist up his fucking words to meet their argument. Sakurai sees it as a party fighter as in something anyone can pick up and play and is better enjoyed with the insanity of all items on all stages. But that doesn't mean that it can't be competitive as well, Sakurai just focus on making it a casual fighter first, competitive second.
Also Party Game isn't a fucking genre. That shit is so vague and stupid because Street Fighter can be a party game, Mortal Kombat, Mahvel, Madden, FIFA, Halo, CoD, Mario Kart, WWE and other shit.
This reminds me of smash on the n64, the people who played it were kids who swore it was deep and all that
If you're not in your teens, I feel pity for you autists whining about being accepted and deluding yourself into thinking smash is deep
I like the game but wow
Makes me ashamed to own nintendo consoles
It's a party game, fun but a party game
>Massively multiplayer online
Massive is subjective as fuck. Multiplayer online is just you and another person.
Massive to what? Yes its total bullshit, but marketers do this shit all the time.
>muh anecdotal evidence!
Literally nobody knows what Guilty Gear is. It's a franchise that has only sold 1 million copies total since 1998 and you're seriously trying to say it's more popular than smash?
Do you know what "broken" means? Because that's what Meta Knight is. When 95% of players pocket a character, there is a problem.
Also ST Akuma was banned too so don't get pretentious about character bans.
It a is different though. At any point he has several options within just the projectile game. He can use an EX meter to go through one of Rose's fireballs or hit her focus to knock her back and gain ground, he can throw a HP shot to cancel her own, he can anticipate a jump to antiair, he can hope to hit an EX spiral with Ultra 1 or 2, etc. etc.
I can keep going on with these permutations.
tippest kek m8
the fact that you know more people excited for xrd than people who are excited for Smash doesn't change the fact that there are about a dozen times as many people looking forward to Sm4sh than the next gg, thanks to the casuals
also I'm sure you'll be back at next Evo to make that post again when Melee and Sm4sh both get more entrants than xrd, even if they only get side tourneys and xrd is mainstage
There's a difference between numbers of people you know and the world anon.
>hurf durf it's not a soulless, cookie-cutter knock off like every other fighting game, so it can't be a fighting game!
Smash pros don't play with items, nor stage hazards and the metagame is every bit as complicated as a standard Weeb Button Masher vs Projectile Spam: Supreme Ultra IV Edition
>pretty fucking easy
To do what? Win EVO?
Yeah it's easy to learn the foundations of competitive smash and roll your friends until they learn the same foundations. This is a skill floor.
Melee has one of the highest skill ceilings of any fighting game. The mind games (movement, momentum, 2-dimensional spacing, etc) are very complex, and lead to the more tactically-skilled player winning.
There's also the fact that it doesn't play like a traditional fighter. The objective in fighters is to lower the opponents life/hp/energy to zero to win the round, usually you have to win 2/3 or 3/5 rounds to win a match
Smash Bros. has a percentage system that tracks how strong knock back becomes and the point is to send people into the blast zones either for points or to shave off a life. Stock is the closest the game gets to being a fighter (not including the hp mode, which feels weird on smash to me at least) and you don't need to win multiple rounds to win a match, you just need to be the last one standing
This post here, >>263856690
does a good job of explaining more ways they differ
>mfw smash stole a day of our locals despite none of the smash players supporting or playing any games other than smash
>ever dying in the first place.
Seriously? Do Nintenyearolds really believe this?
just because they didn't showcase your casual as fuck game doesn't mean it died.
This is why I'd rather see SkullGirls at EVO than these casual faggots.
If random hobos like fucking Mango can do well in Smash your freind surely can. The tech skill ISNT THAT HARD IN SMASH TO EXECUTE. The frentic pace you have to do it though is insane.
>smash has no overheads, high, mids or lows, no blocking, counter hits, hit stun
This poster has never played a Smash game in his life and anyone who agrees with him are complete morons.
All of those inputs are incredibly easy and leniant other than wavedashing though. The only reasons smash has "hard" execution is because the controller is shit and they insist on playing sets 5x as long as any other game so people get hand fatigue.
If you hacked a vewlix setup onto a GC controller smash execution would be a joke.
No, FGC make fun of Smashers because those autists have to make very specific rules and eliminate most of the game in order to make it "tournament worthy". If you have to modify your game so much to make it even a shitty fighting game it's not a fighting game.
There is more than one type of fighter.
2D Fighter: Street Fighter, Guilty Gear
3D Fighter: Tekken, Soul Calibur
Platform Fighter: Smash, Jump Ultimate Stars, PS All-Stars.
Yes Smash is a fighting game. Whether or not a game is a competitive fighter is a matter or the game itself, but Melee has been a mainstage EVO event for the past two years if I'm not mistaken. Very likely Smash 4 will replace it.
>mah health bars
I'm not even defending smash, I'm just wondering why the fight genera has such BS constraints before its considered "fighting".
What makes an FPS an FPS. A strategy a strategy? When was High, Mid, Low part of the "definition"?
Blocking and hitstun. Something a lot of non-fighting games have.
Overhead strikes, high/mid/low and counter hit states are exclusive to fighting games.
>is every bit as complicated as a standard Weeb Button Masher vs Projectile Spam: Supreme Ultra IV Edition
>gif showing the opposite
dude it was a joke. point is, there's no characters in Melee that are as simple as hitting a single button or repeating a single move, just like in SF.
Sure you can beat total scrubs by just spamming, but that's equally true in Smash as it is with spamming qcf with a shoto
It's still indicative of where the hurt box is, and given Smash's greater movement range it actually has more significance in evasion.
Also learning the ending lag on opponents attacks allows you to punish moves
Supreme Commander isn't an RTS because turtling is viable.
Blood Money isn't a stealth game because you don't hide in shadows.
CoD isn't an FPS because it's casual trash.
This is how stupid you sound.
>implying a knife wouldn't be called a hammer if it's inventor wanted it to be.
I think you're too young
and stupidto be posting on this board.
>Platform Fighter: Smash, Jump Ultimate Stars, PS All-Stars.
It will be at EVO because there's an ocean of manchildren who bring in money so why not have it
No one considers it a fighter though
You might not be defending Smash being a fighter but you're just as ignorant.
Things like High-Mid-LoW aren't there for arbitrary reasons, they're aspects native to fighting games that we reference while discussing fighting games.
You also have to remove the controls and replace them all with Street Fighter controls :^)
The fighting game community is unwilling to relearn anything at all so they can simply jump into every new game. So they stiffle any inovation, bad or good in tha bud. And this is comming from someone who doesnt consider Smash Brothers a fighting game either
nigger that's like 300 apm if you break it down. granted, only spacies play that fast, but you're offbase if you think that's below the average number of inputs or decision-making speed of most fighters
It never fails
smash manchildren getting assblasted over this
why cant you just enjoy your kids game in peace and stop trying so hard to fit into a genre you will never be a part of?
I dont like fighters at all but jeez fuck off with the whining
>all of the niggers adamantly refusing to define their terms because it would hurt their argument
every fighting game is a child's party game.
>Are we hardcore yet?: the post
It's not "removing most of the game" it's taking out the huge-ass elephant-in-the-room of RNG that is items, and taking out stages that would be instantly banned if they were included in any similar fashion in any other fighter.
Well when the devs give more importance to adding items than balancing the characters you can get an idea and don't come pretending removing items is the only rule Smashers do to make Smash tourney worthy.
Introduce them to the game you like. Fighting games are hard in general and a daunting task to learn. They are plenty of high level smash players who are also good at other fighters.
>With brawl the players could set up everything, with freedom. But we learned that some folks team up or play differently, making it difficult for all to enjoy. There is a reporting system. As far as technical connection issues, we're still working on it. They use async communication in Mario Kart and other games to improve this, but that doesn't work well for fighting games. So there is cascading failure, especially for four players. That is why they ask people to have the best communication system available (eg a LAN adapter)
More importantly, why cant the smash community accept that it's not a fighting game? They'll defend that shit until they die to autistic levels, and if usually boils down to "BUT ITS A FIGHTING GAME!"
Seriously, why the fuck should you vare what genre it is, isnt whats important is that you like it?
>commonly designed as a collection of simple minigames
Well shit, since it doesn't fit the common design of it, it's not a party game. That's the exact argument against it being a fighter. There's a lack of consistency here. It not adhering to the traditional design either excludes it from the genre or it doesn't. Regardless, it's either a Fighting/Party game, or it's neither.
Only one of them plays other games but he rarely shows up. They had a venue but apparently it wasn't good enough so they needed to steal ours.
I used to play melee competitively back in 2006 but I don't think I could be interested enough to pick it back up, and now I basically have to or I'm just playing online that day.
I don't think it's the community so much as people on /v/. Then again, I don't frequent Smashboards or anything, so I don't know. I don't hear much of this shit outside of /v/.
It's just a special breed of retards, go to any smash thread and you will see the same discussing when this idiots come whining Melee is better and Smash 4 is shit even when they haven't even played it.
There are characters depicted in the game and they hit each other to win, like a fight.
More importantly, why cant /v/ accept that it's a fighting game? They'll deny that shit until they die to autistic levels, and if usually boils down to "BUT ITS A PARTY GAME!"
Seriously, why the fuck should you care what genre it is, isnt whats important is that you like it?
KI has a double energy bar system (I've only played the SNES version, not sure if they changed it since) - you can compare that to stock in a way, except with stock you can keep taking damage; you don't die unless you get blown away.
In KI, you can't just keep taking hits. Eventually your health bar will hit zero if you do and your next 'stock' loads. Keep taking more damage and that eventually goes away too.
That difference alone means a lot - you could just keep jabbing and win a match with a health bar, but you still need to launch the enemy to win in smash.
I haven't played Injustice yet, it's at least better than Mk Vs. DC Universe, no? I do want to try it out at least.
I feel some points are goods and other's aren't. Saying the stages are designed different isn't a good point when tourneys usually play out on an all flat surface like a fighter.
The movement thing is good, so I'll try to explain it better.
In a 2D fighter, your position is always dependent on your opponent - you always face them in a sense. The opponent jumps over you and your character turns to face them automatically
3D Fighters - Most of these follow 2D mechanics. Some, like SC and Tekken allow for a person to place themselves on the sides or behind their opponents. However, most of the time the character will snap back to the opponent if they aren't lined up.
In SC, if there's someone behind you and you press the direction opposite where they stand, you turn around to face them. Most characters will turn around as well if you press the towards the direction where the opponent stands unless you're doing an attack at the same time (a back kick for example)
With Smash, your position isn't dependent on any of the other fighters - your character is completely independent. Your character doesn't track opponents like in SF and there is no directional-snap like in 3D fighters
This is considered a low level bread and butter combo beginners should be able to perform
>Being so assblasted he parrots what the other guy said even though he's not anti smash in any way
This is why you're a bunch of whiny manchildren, the party game genre suits you
I guess it doesn't seem like that big of an issue as to whether or not it's classified as a fighting game.
I like it in comparison to other fighters because of the difference in mechanics; the platforming aspect alone allows for a lot of variance in the way people play, and the fact that the combo system gives you chances to escape (if your DI is on point) really keeps things interesting as opposed to a typical fighter (in both BlazBlue and MvC3, I see a lot of people using the same BnBs, and I even catch myself doing the same stuff over and over again because of optimization).
Melee was really nice because there could actually be legitimate 0-deaths, but they could still be escaped with proper DI, but Brawl was also interesting because it was more "reset" based in that there were few true combos, but frame traps and the like provided for a different approach altogether.
I've seen people through fits over MOBAs being consider the same things as strategies.
I see what you are saying though, but there are shit load of differences.
but that brings a better example, when do Mobas stop being "strategies" in everyone opinions?
Thats what this seems like to me, Smash is to Fighting, what LoL is to Strategies.
i remember back in highschool, playing smash 64 with friends, there was this kid who always wanted to turn off items.
That fucking faggot. No one liked to play like that, it was boring as fuck.
Do you think smash sells because it's good or because it's nintendo characters partying?
plaster nintendo characers on something and it sells
Look at SC2 with link
Fighting game shitheads are probably the most scammed gaming demographic next to Madden fans.
>fighting game skills dont transfer
dont judge something based on your own inadequacy and limitations, my skills move gracefully over to smash...maybe you arent good?
>More importantly, why cant the smash community accept that it's not a fighting game?
Why accept blatant lies like that? What would be the point?
Smash games are already defined as fighters, and rightfully so. Not everyone has a narrow mind and forms uneducated beliefs like you.
It was a demonstration, anon. The other guy wasn't making a point at all. His attempt at making the other side seem autistically devoted to fitting the game into a little box can be done with just as much effort and effectiveness from the opposite end.
Your ad hominem makes you seem pretty assblasted yourself though. Watch that, nigga
Latin American fag here who plays Kof and Street Fighter.
I have never played a Smash Bros game, but it looks like a fighting game to me.
I am not sure if this debate is real or if you are trolling the people who play smash bros.
same with the fucking string you're responding to, it's just a drill shine, a waveshine, an edgehog and an offstage bair
not to mention the fact that Ryu is performing fewer actions with the same number of inputs since there are multiple inputs per move
neither Street Fighter NOR Melee have very high technical requirements. That's the point
I hate when people post that GIF as an argument. Try making one for Street Fighter that shows how many more (and what kind of) inputs per second a pro has to do.
Which is the same shit partyfags do when trying to make up genres for something thats already defined.
Is there Multiplayer?
Does that player involve you fighting each other and not co-op?
Do you throw punches and kicks at each other?
How is it not a fighting game?
Also [spoilers]Im pretty sure only shills keep forcing the idea that Smash is not a fighter because its their way of deflecting criticisms of balance and mechanics.[/spoiler]
>Games like Smash Bros., Power Stone or Budokai Tenkaichi are in a subgenre of fighting games called "arena fighters."
>They're not fighting games strictly speaking
>>are in a subgenre of fighting games
>Smash games are already defined as fighters
By you and your little circle jerk, the FGC laughs at you, the Smash fanbase can't stand you and even Sakurai hates your kind. Yet here you are in a corner repeating to yourself that everyone is wrong and you are right.
>All this SC hate
What, do you guys play
You do control the direction of your shield, and depending on if you're aiming the shield in the right direction, you can very well get hit out of shield as your shield wasn't covering the right part of your body. This works all around you're shield. You can hold your shield in the wrong direction entirely.
So if someone is holding their shield high, you can punish with a down tilt and get through their defense without the need for grabbing.
smash is a party game
its a game made to cater to nintendophiles who buy mario and company doing anything
ie mario tennis/golf
you could make a mario game doing anything and it would sell
it doesnt mean theyre good games though
I guess zoning maybe but combos are completely different in the way they work and even at it's core it not about doing the most damage, it's about controlling your opponents movement.
You couldn't beat me faggot
>categorized as a fighting game everywhere including nintendo's official website
>b-but this small minority of nerds on the internet disagrees, so it's not!!!!!
The fact that so many books still name the Beatles "the greatest or most significant or most influential" rock band ever only tells you how far rock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success: the Beatles sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rock critics are often totally ignorant of the rock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that the Beatles did anything worth of being saved.
In a sense the Beatles are emblematic of the status of rock criticism as a whole: too much attention to commercial phenomena (be it grunge or U2) and too little attention to the merits of real musicians. If somebody composes the most divine music but no major label picks him up and sells him around the world, a lot of rock critics will ignore him. If a major label picks up a musician who is as stereotyped as one can be but launches her or him worldwide, your average critic will waste rivers of ink on her or him. This is the sad status of rock criticism: rock critics are basically publicists working for free for major labels, distributors and record stores. They simply publicize what the music business wants to make money with.
If you reduced it to bosses and pvp, sure. I'd be like a cooler soul calibur.
They're actually shit, only the actual mario games like galaxy and such are good
>there are gullible people who buy party games shit and then tell others about their choice in games
I bet you like mario at the olympics shit too