Is Bayonetta a female power fantasy or a male sex object? Or something else?
I ask this question because the games are full of "male gaze", and yet every man I've asked about this (including myself) doesn't find Bayonetta attractive.
>female power fantasy
>women playing Bayonetta
The grill on youtube explaining how dodge offset works doesn't count.
Meh. At the very least, the character owns their sexuality.
It's not like so many other games where the fanservice is just there and has no real relevance to the characters or anything (Dead or Alive, Fatal Frame, etc).
Who cares, just post sexy Bayonetta
>tfw Kamiya is mad at Bayo doujins because they always maker her submissive
The character designer that came up with her designed as a fashionable modern witch.
She's long and slender because she wanted her to look like an action character.
>Bayonetta is supposed to be a sex object
No, she's supposed to be a parody of over sexualized characters. She is so hyper sexualized that some find her unsexy
It it intended.
Logically it could be a thing, but it's hard to think of examples that aren't terrible "GRRL POWER" characters.
It's interesting to note that Enzo and Rodin seem to consider Bayonetta to be purely a friend, and don't even seem to consider her as a sex object. Enzo even has a wife who knows Bayonetta and presumably isn't suspicious.
reminder that skill in bayo 2 is more of a suggestion then a requirement. http://youtu.be/m8IeGXbhaGY
She's strong and feminine. That's basically all there is to it.
Bayonetta entire basis is Kamiya wanted an action game character who could be more graceful in the way they fight, therefore a female character. With Bayonetta they decided to take this over the top and completely exaggerate, hence the postmodernist character design.
At the end of the day, Bayonetta is Bayonetta. Not some label of "sex object" or "strong female", she's too independent, powerful and confident to be a mere label.
>Kamiya wanted an action game character who could be more graceful in the way they fight
Which is why Bayonetta's combat system revolves around dodging and doge offset to keep the combo multiplier going
>Glasses! This was something that Kamiya-san really pushed for, as he was aiming to differentiate Bayonetta from other female characters and give her a sense of mystery and intelligence.
>Of course, I think it is just because he likes girls with glasses.
I love how her taunt enrages the Angels so much, they're so pure and pious that the mere fact that Bayonetta is insinuating they want to cop a feel like a lewd pervert offends them so so much they go into an actual rage.
Neither, it's just a power fantasy.
Killing people in games and feeling like the most powerful thing in the world is satisfying regardless of gender.
That's why magic games where you start small and soon start conquering armies is so great to play.
Yeah, sometimes I wish he legs weren't so gangly, but I'd still bang the shit out of her
A lot of the criticisms aimed at Bayonetta as a character are directed at the fact that she's so heavily sexualized, and so this is apparently enough reason to consider her a bad feminist character. However, it must be said that Kamiya put her on the same pedestal as a lot of male characters in games: she was sexy, strong, independent, and actually had a personality beyond just being a stereotype. Personally, I think it's really silly that a lot of people disregard her as a strong character just because she was both a) a sexualized lady and b) made by a dude.
>no discussion allowed
Bayonetta's body may have weird proportions, but her face is so pretty
She's a fucking video game character that acts like a sexy badass because she is and likes to be.
Why the fuck do all you you idiots feel the need to make up all these fucking terms for this kind of shit, god damn.
neither dude she is a video game character
I'll admit I fapped to her walk animation (them hips), but besides that I agree with the 'so sexualised she's unsexy' thing. Her proportions are so far removed from a normal human it's insane.
I can't see her in a way that isn't 'character design'
>fapped to her walk animation
Yeah, they really knew how to animated her hips. That sway
It is the demo, that was the first mission from it, that cutscene leads to a mini-boss and then the boss.
I actually didn't know you could change difficulty though, I didn't see any choices. How do you do it?
Ignoring whatever is going on in this thread. I made a thing for NA folks since we're not getting Bayo 1 boxed with Bayo 2. It's not finished yet, but it should save you most of the trouble if you planned on doing this.
God damn I love bayo2 design so much more than bayo1
Yeah the short hair really grew on me. Her new outfit is a lot better as well. The new alternate outfits in Bayo 2 look so good as well, I cannot wait for that china dress.
Is NA just getting the disc?
>Being sexually attractive to men
>Not a female power fantasy
It's the same reason why guys like being strong, smart and useful. IT'S ATTRACTIVE TO WOMEN.
Thank you anon. That fucking wink and kiss she's making just does things to me
There was also a whole version of this pic that's like 10Kx10K
But it's not the demo because the guy clearly has DT and that wasn't available yet because they wanted to make it a surprise that DT was white hair.
You don't know what you're talking about.
they actually spoiled devil trigger pretty early and showed that it was a dumb piece of shit anyways
It was A demo though, it's from some guy playing a stage show demo or something.
a lesser woman's head would only reach Bayonetta's crotch. hrmm, coincidence?
Regardless of who's right, the video is most definitely not on any serious difficulty. Enemies don't get hit stunned by normal attacks on higher difficulties like that.
Also, I couldn't find difficulty selection in the demo either so I'd like to know where it is.
Bayonetta has elongated proportions, she's actually shorter than Luka if I remember.
But she is one of the best players
>mfw Bayonetta lore videos and history lessons
Bayo is average height, Luka is taller than her. She just has wacked out proportions
Your wait was worth it. Bayo 1 on the Wii U comes with all that bonus content, while maintaining the performance of the 360 version (even better in some cases), and completely eliminating screen tearing (which plagued the 360 version)
That's weird, because there was another video that enemies cold break out of your combo. How come they don't break out?
Then again Bayonetta is probably OP as fuck in Bayo2.
- Better Magic system
-Full screen weapons.
-Witch Time buffed.
The game is probably easy because of all that plus people being familar to Bayo1's combat system.
As someone who suffered through the PS3 version, I am pretty excited for the port.
Although the game lagged like fuck and actually crashed once or twice it was still extremely fun and that finale, oh man.
Fun Facts: Jeanne's pedestrian job is a fashion designer and history teacher while Bayonetta's is a legitimate nun.
not of Luka. I meant that there's more Luka in Bayo 2 doing his usual thing.
I like that Witch Time has bullet trails now, it looks pretty cool
Apparently Bayonetta is actually supposed to be a rebellion against patriarchal Christianity.
I prefer it shorter, the Belief boss fight is a fucking avalanche of dodging into small WT periods and attacking and dodging, the WT is just long enough that it doesn't slow everything down too much.
Maybe I'm outing myself as a filthy console peasant but I really didn't find Bayo on PS3 to be that bad. I played it with the patch and I didn't get any lag that I noticed, and no crashes or anything. I was surprised at how comparably fine it felt
Besides that one area near the end of the game where you're getting about 15 fps, but that was the only time it got bad
It's a kickass, god-tier action game with a sexy female protagonist. Even if I was a female gamer, I would go lesbian for her.
Also Maddox said it right about "sexism":
>That's weird, because there was another video that enemies cold break out of your combo. How come they don't break out?
Difficulty. They really toned down normal this go around a lot. Everyone who's played the Japanese version I've seen has recommended playing the game on hard, which is the hardest difficulty available at the start.
>Because under the fluff and noise, this is a game about murdering the patriarchy with its own tools of oppression.
No it isn't...
Did the patch change how enemy spawns were staggered to keep the framerate up, but only giving you a few guys at a time to knock around? That and the load times are the biggest criticisms of the ps3 version I've heard, aside from the framerate.
And then Jeanne was given a biker suit in Bayonetta 2 with even smaller breasts and Kamiya loved it
I know you can have short haired Jeanne in Bayo 2 but can you combine her old hair with her new biker suit because damn I love that biker suit
It really only got "bad" during boss fights and the later levels, early in the game it wasnt bad at all, only with a couple rough spots here and there, still playabe aside from that one are like you said, that was really bad.
Well anyway, a game like this requires good framerate, hence why I am so glad it got ported.
Only played it post-patch, so I dunno, sorry. Load times were middling, but of course they put the combo practice in to distract you
Yeah, I get it, there's nothing to compare it against. I just expected it to be unplayable, and instead it was acceptable
I will get it on the Wii U since there's such a drastic improvement
Does punching and kicking with legcannons in umbran mechs count?
I don't think so. Bayo 1 was ridiculous and over the top with what happened at the end. Bayo 2 is more story driven. IMO, it's less "what the fuck is on my screen right now it's brilliant" and more of a quiet "Oooh. So that's what happened." That's my opinion, at least.
Speaking of Hell, do Bayonetta expect to be able to hold off their destiny forever? They're going to run out of Angels or be killed at some point, maybe Bayonetta 3 should be about breaching dem contracts...
trying not to get myself spoiled but I think that's part of the reason why Gomorrah (among others) are trying to kill Bayonetta now, as the left eye, she's becoming a force even inferno is fearing.
How much of the game have you seen? Whether it is or it isn't depends on a lot preference and expectations. I'm having some trouble separating out the over the top and the climactic from bayo 1's ending. To me, bayo 2 is more satisfying overall, but not so much of a CARAYZAY end as the first.
How much power does she lose without Inferno's help? I presume her power to headbutt Skyscrapers at people is her own power as a Witch, as well as shapeshifting, gravity defiance and super strength and durability?
I'm just wondering how she can take on Inferno without Inferno's help.
Na. Wicked weaves, punishing, and combos seem to be enough, if you dislike umbran climax. UC feels like serious mode from bayo 1, but stronger and temporary. So if this changes on higher difficulty or on harder bosses, I don't think it's the end of the world.
I've only played the demo, same as everyone else, but I still have some high hopes. Obviously the demo was the tip of the iceberg, and I think it came out strong, especially with such a big boss.
In the direct the director said that inferno doesn't have any kind of hierarchy unlike paradiso
that could mean that it's a lawless zone where the strong rule and everyone is minding their own business
you don't have a bid bad pulling all the strings and commanding every single demon unlike the first game
Do you honestly think Madama Butterfly would give up on a halo gravy train like Bayonetta so easily?
The same applies to Jeanne and Styx.
What would actually be the name for the Lumen equivalent of a wicked weave?
Weave is because hair but the lumen sage medium is feathers.
Inversely, the Lumen equivalent of Witch Time is Light Speed.
To be honest I don't really understand the whole "sex is bad" thing when it comes to characters in general. It seems like implanting even the smallest amount of sexual teasing in a personality makes them a bad character but it's far from the contrary. Humans are all naturally enticed by sex, whether they like to admit it or not. Those who understand this, embrace their sexuality, and use it to their advantage really shouldn't be penalized for it.
Halos? I thought Rodin takes the Halos and the Demons of Inferno take her Angel offerings? I presume when you see those arms pull the bosses into Hell that Sheba takes her piece on the other side.
It's funny you say that, because Bayonetta totally looks like a drag queen. Her height, her body structure, even down to her face half the time, just screams dude in lady disguise.
Yep. when you do a combo that's suppose to end in a WW, it ends with a more complete summon in UC. Same with the elbow drop from Madama Butterfly with the PPPPP or PPPPK combos.
I've already seen a full playthrough from a Japanese copy. There are a couple LPs on youtube if you don't care about spoilers. But yeah, the demo was great, but it was a bit more dense than the full game. Notice how you didn't have any sections where you walk around or do any easy puzzles?
I want to see butterfly and styx as pimps now
BAYONETTA 2 should have been about jeanne as the main character as kamiya originally intended.
Bayo 2 isnt pulling me in like the first but i will get it eventually.
Game just seems to lack kamiyas special touch
I've thought the same thing since the first time I ever saw her, before the first game even came out.
I mean Jesus, look at OP's image. It looks like the back of a fucking male basketball player playing dressup.
Man, the demons of Inferno are fucking violent as hell, Paradiso doesn't stand a chance against such brutality.
I'm remembering the enemiesi n B1 where they can change shape, and the climax finisher for them ends up in them getting absolutely battered, and Tempestia or whatever he's called, gets punched in the gut, arm ripped off and beat to shit.
> the enemiesi n B1 where they can change shape
Golems. and iirc, they were made by the witches and sages, but they're classified with the angels. They're back and more badass.
>faggot OP tries to start stupid thread about muh sexism
>thread evolves into actual gameplay discussion
Good for you /v/.
Everyone is always ready to forcibly adopt something to support their cause. They're especially prone to do that when that thing doesn't acknowledge that saying, "so and so supports it" because more often than not people don't fact check.
It's like finding messages in art that don't actually exist. The author might be dead or the author is enough of a shit if you ask them they'll say, "Yeah, that was my idea all along."
To me, Bayonetta is a group project where the mission statement was, "Create the most batshit insane action game we can, crank every dial to 11."
People should be celebrating the game as a high-point in unrestrained creativity. The protagonist is a hyper sexualized woman with a hair cat-suit who uses that hair to summon hellspawn that take the shape of dragons, crabs, spiders. She also occasionally straps projectile weapons such as ROCKET LAUNCHERS to her heels. It's not just the thought alone but the fact that it is clear tonnes of talent went into the concept to make sure it was the absolute best it could possibly be for such a ridiculous concept.
I have no intention of spoiling anything. I try to hide anything borderline.
The game looks really similar to bayo 1, but a bit longer, more rewarding along the way, and more polished visually and story-wise. It still has walking bits, huge quote marks "platforming" segments, and other changes to the kind of gameplay like 1 did. What do you mean by general action sections?
>mfw I had a teacher who looked like Bayo minus the beehive and had a hey kid aura all around her
I had a massive grin on my face seeing his face get progressively more buried into the side of the building with each punch.
Gotta' respect the structural integrity of that building I guess.
Is Gomorrah kill for good when that weird Chimera hair beast bites into him and slams him into the ground?
>like Dante does in every game
Will he ever get stabbed again?
Bayonetta's character was designed by a female.
I don't understand how she could be apart of the "male gaze".
I had the exact same feeling. A big grin and feeling sorry for the poor hellspawn.
I'm not sure if Gomorrah comes back. I don't remember anything big about that. I think chimera and the other half dozen new demons are the replacements. Not sure, though.
She was designed by some legit fashion designer, they're just into that goofy-looking shit.
She's fun, though, as hilariously bad as she is at being sexually enticing. Have you see the fucking Wii U costumes?
Exactly, they're glass cannons.
Like in most games it is probable that for the purposes of plot they don't suffer a single hit. Like how no protagonist in Resident Evil actually takes a zombie bite or bothers with healing of any sort.
If he can master any weapon by just playing with it for a few seconds I don't see why he couldn't be a master tailor who can fix anything in a few fractions of a second
It's why they get thrown for a loop when trying to denounce Bayonetta as sexist and they hear she was designed by a woman.
I imagine there was quite a lot of "internalized mysogyny" and "slave to the patriarchy" thrown around once they found out. And then you got the pro-sex feminists who find her empowering and all that shit who butt heads with the anti-sex SJWs and feminazis. It causes too much confusion among their ranks to mount any sort of campaign against her.
She has to pretty durable..., I recall making cracks in the ground from long drops/jumps.
Maybe it's like, a Demon punch would liquify a human, but just merely wound Bayonetta seriously.
All the stuff she has in her hair looks like a complete nuisance. I have somewhat long hair, though it's much shorter in a relative sense, and even it gets in my way occasionally.
Having all this stuff constraining it / weights in it, would not only make it swing around and whatnot, but be heavy and just feel generally awful. Makes her character seem very relaxed, yet anxious at the same time. An odd duality.
I dunno. I used to find Bayonetta just stupid, as she was oversexualized to the point of being unattractive, but I never played the game. Apparently she's actually really well written, the gameplay is of course good. Funny thing is I don't know any guys who give a damn about her, but a lot of girls I know love her games. So...make of that what you will.
The new non-nintendo outfits are so much better than the ones in Bayonetta 1.
this is partly because Bayonetta doesn't have the beehive but I dunno, they ooze so much more style too.
Tell me what you think.
I personally don't feel her physical sexualization was anything of a turn-off.
What I did find unattractive after a while was her personality towards one of the male characters. She comes off as a sex-crazed predator to the point where it feels too blunt. Sure, it's funny to break the ice with some highly aggressive innuendo but after a while it feels kinda stupid and disappointing that the characters don't say, "haha, yeah, okay, I get it." Because after that point it would have been "better" to me if she kept up the incredibly sex-charged dialog but with a tinge of irony to it like "I'm talking and behaving like this because I know it bothers you," because if they had done that, it would have made her sound way more intelligent and not some meathead.
But that's just her interactions with one character. Getting all sassy and catty at the enemy was great. Because she's keeping up some action-hero swagger.
I don't think I will ever understanding this word.
Inferno is not organized. Also the Gomorrah that tried to kill her isn't even the same Gomorrah from Bayo1, since that one was killed by Balder.
Infernals, however, are not supposed to attack witches. That's why she's "glad that some of them (Madama Butterfly, Hekatoncheir, Labolas, Mictlantecuhtli, Malphas and Baal) are keeping their part of the contract."
Apparently, it has something to do with a new lady demon.
But the male gaze has nothing to do with her design, it's to do with the camera positioning and editing.
Bayonetta's scenes are usually shot in a way that focuses on her sex appeal.
You mean Luka? I don't remember her being too bad, if anything he was more annoying because he's not sure if he wants to kill her one minute out of revenge or bang her the next.
>Without thinking with your dick, is this series actually good?
It's terrific, one of the most refined action games ever. Really high skill ceiling.
In fact, I'd say that it isn't even good for your dick anyway. Most scenes are more funny than arousing.
It's not a revolution. It doesn't offer anything that .wav or .aif does. Nobody in the audio industry uses it. It doesn't provide compression so the files sizes are the same and it also minutely uses up more cpu. No DAW even supports it really. Maybe audacity but that's a shot program
Fantastic if you enjoy hack and slash games.
Responsive controls, tons of weapons and combos, lots of replayibility and unlockables, fun combat.
Pretty much everything you can ask for from a game of its genre.
Did Bayo's butt increase in size? Not that I'm complaining.
No, you're very unlikely to find video in "lossless" formats.
Flac is not an unnecessary inflation of size.
PNGs can often be smaller than jpegs, at an obviously higher quality. Most people don't understand compression schemes and don't know how to make an intelligent decision or when certain types of compression are more viable.
I'm really not certain what you're trying to say. Jpegs represent color via YCbCr, chroma is often subsampled, and it introduces compression artifacts in addition to the lower gamut it's capable of representing. Why you would dislike these things being absent is beyond me, we're not in the age of dial up anymore, and they aren't substantially larger even for complex images.
Glossy photo paper, not the thick shit though, it has to bend. I'd pick it up in person so you know exactly what you're getting.
If you print it at the correct dpi it should. 300 dots per inch seems to be correct.
same scene, different costume. Not as skin tight and sorta boring though. I look forward to seeing her in every costume in this scene though.
You think so?
What I thought was weird, was how in B1, Jubileus was the Creator and yet Queen Sheba was so big she could fit Jubileus in the palm of her hand.
Forget Madama Butterfly, just how powerful is Sheba?
Oh I should add that
you do see a couple of Scolopendra flying around in Inferno and they attack you during a flying sequence, but you don't really fight them in any sort of boss battle
That poor bastard, all he want's is to be a hero. And yet he fails at it every single time
Angel walls keeping you in certain areas are still in. However, if you want, you can avoid the cannon fodder fights and go straight from boss to boss faster than in 1. You can't do a raw boss rush, though. It's just... less of it is required.
And instead, you can go off the main path in search of those fights, Muspelheims, and chests if you want to find them. I'm still not sure what to think about it.
I do mean Luka. I just didn't like the guy or her interactions with him. I didn't like how much of a non-contributor he was.
I get being intimidated by Bayonetta, who wouldn't. But I felt the game needed a more straight-edged sort of character in contrast to how crazy Bayonetta and Jeanne were - someone not important, an ally, sympathetic, but totally capable of getting over her highly sexualized zingers like Rodin and Enzo clearly had. The kid was submissive and meek enough, Luka really didn't need to be such a dork too. They could have easily lumped Joe Pesci and Luka's character together.
I guess I was waiting the whole game for a single snarky comment like "goddamn woman, go rub one out if you're not going to actually jump on my dick", which would give her an opportunity to make a very grounded intelligent comment before going straight back to sex-crazed alley cat.
I guess the thing is that I know people in real life who talk like Bayonetta. Some of them are complete meatheads who can't help but inject sexual innuendo into everything, which is reflective of how not very smart they are; hard working sure, but not smart. But there are others who use it like a game just seeing if someone wants to clash wits.
See, the people who inappropriately throw innuendo everywhere typically don't have the assets to back it up. People who use it intelligently typically have the assets to back it up. Bayonetta has the assets and the attitude but she just didn't feel smart to me.
Nothing will ever top that Alastor acquisition cutscene
God fucking damn I love DMC1
Don't think so friend. Wasted opportunity.
>but totally capable of getting over her highly sexualized zingers like Rodin and Enzo clearly had
I don't recall Bayonetta ever USING sexual zingers on Rodin or Enzo. Bayonetta gets flirty around Luka because she has a domcrush on him.
No one cares, fuck off faggot.
>Implying Duela Dent isn't one of the shittiest characters that DC has to offer
She was a tryhard character since the fucking beginning.
Just take a read and tell me she isn't DA-tier.
Sorry, can't into writing lately. I'm not judging it either way right now. I think it'll be a blast.
General question. Is there a full list of demons used in climaxes yet? I'm trying to find what one is suppose to be, because it just looks strange. I think it's tied to Undine, but I thought I summoned it in the demo.
She didn't. I just wanted to mean that they were comfortable around her and likewise her with them. Yeah, she had just met Luka, but I wanted a moment where Luka maybe wasn't such a wuss and she wasn't all crazy.
I'm not really looking forward to Luka again in the second game. Not unless he stops being a spineless stalker 100% of the time. And when I say spineless I mean in his interactions with her.
No one cares, Anita. Go scissor Zoe or something.
MOST of the doujins are of her being submissive. And when I say most, I mean of the barely two dozen that are out there.
That's fairly telling of the pornographic culture out there. When given a stronger character they're more likely to portray them in a submissive light than have them behave in-character.
Like, one of the ones where she's in charge it's only because she's /ss/'ing an age-reduced Luka. And that's only because it's /ss/.
Why waste the opportunity to have someone just as willing to throw you around in the sack as you are to to them without needing the excuse of some fetish like /ss/. Sure, she becomes all aggressive at the end of most of them, but what's the fucking point.
Yeah. The first time Shaun and Ed fight zombies it doesn't show the heads being caved-in, it shows those two squinting and hammering away over and over due to it actually being hard to break a human skull.
Is Riku from Kingdom Hearts a male power fantasy, or a female sex object? Or is he just THE DARKNESS?
I ask this question because every female Kingdom Hearts fan I ask who has actually played the games say they love his bishy butt. I don't know what a bishy butt is please send help.
Just play video games. You will never enjoy anything in life because you complain about such nonsense.
Re-examine your priotities in life and you will see non of this actually affects anyone. You are being manipulated through anger
>wanting to stick your dick in a 50 year old hag
Anonk, have some standards