>Ganondorf wishes for Hyrule to rise again so he can rule it
>King of Hyrule stops him before he can do it
>instead of wishing for Hyrule's rebirth and Ganondorf to fuck off, he wishes for its destruction
Someone explain to me why this wasn't a bullshit move.
Then why do the Wind Waker sequels revolve around reestablishing Hyrule (and even calling it New Hyrule) in a new land with the same monarchy bullshit instead of making a new land unique to them?
Seems kind of silly.
Because Nintendo misunderstood why people liked Wind Waker and thought that the only thing that made it appealing was the toon style.
This is why they keep pushing Toon Link onto us despite him not being in a relevant or good game for years.
Wind Waker is far from my favorite game in the series. I'm far more of a 2D Zelda fan.
But it's not a secret that it's the only Zelda game to have writing that isn't complete garbage.
Because Hyrule is a relic of the past that bred suffering and war. The gods buried Hyrule so that the evil would be contained, and so no living creature could call it there home any longer. Which is why there are supposed to be no fish in it (No I don't know why the talking fish can live in it).
They were meant to go start a new life in a new land and be happy. But the sequels fucked it up.
What? Wind Waker wasn't nihilist at all, and I've never played a Souls games. It was a struggle between the old generation and the new generation, and burying the past.
You seem really mad over nothing.
Majora's Mask's strength was its incredible atmosphere.
Not it's minimal plot.
Because it was babbys first Zelda, your struggles amounted to literally fucking nothing in the end and the dialogue sounded veeeewy sophisticated and fantasy-esque so clearly it's a deep experience.
I notice most WW faggots don't even like any Zelda beyond WW.
That land is not Hyrule. That's the point.
It's their land. They can call it whatever the fuck they want, but the point is that their Hyrule is different than the old one.
It doesn't have Ganon anymore, for one thing.
It will eventually. Skyward Sword kind of established that no matter where Link and Zelda go, Demise will always be reborn as Ganondorf to fuck them over.
Besides, didn't they have some other asshole to worry about in Spirit Tracks? They're doubly fucked over too without the Master Sword now.
ok /v/ bros, I just need to ask, how long does it take to collect the triforce on WW HD version, I heard they shortened it, but I just beat Zelda1 and im fucking sick of collecting triforce.
Ganondorf had a singular obsession with ruling Hyrule, to the point where he wanted to resurrect it just so he could rule it, not content with ruling over the scattering of islands full of people who were surviving and making their own culture and societies.
>Majora's Mask's strength was its incredible atmosphere.
>Not it's minimal plot.
I disagree. The minimalism made the plot more mysterious and open ended, which encourages discussion and theories.
If the Happy Mask Salesman spent several cutscenes explaining how the ancient tribe created the mask and why they created it and exactly what Majora is, along with Majora itself having a long winded villain monologue before its boss fight, the game would've been cliche and uninteresting.
You mean the pile of rocks at the bottom of the ocean, destroyed centuries ago and infamous for constant wars?
The whole point of Wind Waker was that Hyrule died out centuries ago and wasn't worth restoring, and that the silly cute pirate world you had been exploring was worth keeping alive. And that's not taking into account the fact he was going to rule it and basically create another Dark World out of it like he always does.
The sequels fucked it up later on but that doesn't mean Wind Waker suddenly stops working as a self-contained story.
I understand you think it's very good characterization for a hero to be a useless piece of shit who sits around all day acting disinterested and moody but to most sensible people it would've been greatly preferable had Link restored Hyrule, like he does in every other fucking Zelda game when it gets wrecked or otherwise threatened.
I'm a Ganondorf fan and even I think this is bullshit.
He wants Hyrule back so he can rule it. At one point back before OOT, his intentions may have been noble because he wanted to give his people a better life, but getting caught up in the Triforce corrupted the hell out of him. Which may partially due to Demise's essence or whatever subconsciously guiding him, but whatever.
The best thing Nintendo did in Wind Waker was make him sympathetic to an extent and give him a personality that wasn't POWER POWER EVIL I WILL RULE HYRULE. You'd think they'd carry this over to future games, but nope.
And what if we applied this logic to all the other games? In LoZ Hyrule is a diminished kingdom where the citizens live in caves. In OOT the capital is destroyed. In ALTTP evil is running amok and the king is dead. Using WW's logic every Link in those games should've just up and left because it wasn't worth fighting for it anymore.
Those Links were fighting to restore a world recently destroyed by evil, and the kingdoms they themselves had lived in and experienced.
By the time Wind Waker came around Hyrule was like fucking Ancient Egypt. It's era in history was long over and Link was fighting to protect the ocean you spent the whole game bonding with, not a kingdom the gods themselves decided to bury.
I sort of like Wind Waker for it's unique Ganondorf. He's just tired, and is fully aware of the cycle that is constantly repeating itself. He just wants it to end. He wants to stop losing and to finally achieve his dream of giving him and his people a place to live in. He finally achieved that by returning during a time when Link and Zelda were far too weak to stop him.
But it wasn't a pile of rocks. It was a perfectly preserved kingdom frozen in time. All it had to do was rise to the surface and it would be like it had never disappeared to begin with.
And it's not like the New Hyrule that Link and Tetra created would be any better as far as wars go. It's history repeating itself, but at least they had a shot at making things better if the King of Hyrule had been a little more creative with his wish instead of wishing for Hyrule to be obilterated completely.
>that the silly cute pirate world you had been exploring was worth keeping alive.
Besides your sister and grandma there's nothing really particularly endearing about the surface world, life seemed pretty worthless and miserable really, you'd think everyone would be happier living on an actual landmass other than tiny islands and an ocean where you can't even fish.
Considering we haven't had a game in the Wind Waker side of the timeline that has Ganon appear after Wind Waker itself, there could be a chance that sealing Ganon and Hyrule in the ocean with the Master Sword may have broken the curse on that side.
And to be fair, Malladus was more just a guy who thinks he owns that land that they made landfall on and called Hyrule. Despite being a demon king himself, there's really no connection to Demise.
If they ever bring another game to the Wind Waker side of the timeline, I'm going to bet part of it is going to be about making a new Master Sword if Ganondorf were to return.
I'm curious why people seem to think that the goddesses are purely noble. We're talking about entities who for some reason saw it fit to bless Ganondorf with the Triforce of Power, basically causing this mess to begin with, and thought that the best way to save Hyrule was to murder 95% of the population by destroying it.
This is some real Old Testament shit.
In LoZ Hyrule had been in decline for a very long while and Link wasn't actually a native, he came from another country. In OOT technically Hyrule was seven years dead or at least in bad state. The whole damn point of Link always showing up is to pull things back from the brink against all odds. WW shits allover this with 'well at least you tried but the game was rigged anyway.'
Its government hadn't been around for thousands of years.
Its tribes were had either completely evolved to fit their new world, got wiped out or just moved the fuck out like the Gorons.
Its history was practically lost.
Most of the people on the sea had no idea what Hyrule was.
Just because Death Mountain and the Lost Woods still existed doesn't mean that reviving the kingdom was a good idea. It would have never been able to become the world you saw in Ocarina of Time, because time moved on and so did everybody else.
>Goddesses essentially responsible for giving immense power to a desperate man who was already willing to do whatever it took to save his people
>we will never get another game where Ganondorf is actually written as a human character instead of a crazy one dimensional asshole
>no game where he begins as Zelda or Link's friend and slowly grows corrupted over the course of the story, forcing you to fight him and realize that no matter what there's no changing destiny
Fuck you too, Nintendo.
I guess Wind Waker faggots must've hated the end of LOTR when Aragorn restored all diminished or destroyed realms of the north and shit because clearly it was time for Middle Earth to move on.
Hyrule sunk solely because the hero did not return to fight Ganondorf. The gods sunk Hyrule because it was going to seal Ganondorf, not because Hyrule was being under siege. That's the main qualifier here. They decided sealing Ganondorf was more important than letting a kingdom remain. By the time of the Wind Waker, Hyrule is literally worthless since the seal wasn't even working on Ganondorf anymore.
They also gave the people ample time to go to the mountaintops and weather the storm. They could have wished for Hyrule to return to the surface, but it's really not worth it anymore.
I wouldn't really want him to be there friends. I think it would be better if he was just someone who was traveling to the kingdom to seek help for his people and slowly growing more insane as the game progresses due to the kingdoms reluctance to help him.
why the hell is everyone going overboard with this
link didn't give up on hyrule. hyrule was already dead and literally buried when the game started. there is literally nothing at stake if it gets destroyed or reborn.
meanwhile there is absolutely everything at state if the islands on the great sea get destroyed or subjugated by ganondorf because there are people living there with their own cultures who are literally keeping the spirit of hyrule alive whether they know it or not.
Ganondorf is the perfect vehicle to highlight the madness inherent to the human condition. His decline could say quite a lot. He was better that way, and he's certainly lost his roots as he's perpetually cast as a generic villain.
>not wanting to protect this smile
you're a monster
> and he's certainly lost his roots as he's perpetually cast as a generic villain.
His roots ARE a generic villain you dumbfuck. He was a giant blue pig who wanted power and in OOT he's a giant sand nigger who also wants power. This is why people can't stand WW autists.
Hyrule was an ancient city long since gone. The King of Hyrule wasn't stuck in the past, he was more focused on the future and moving forward. No Triforces. No Hyrules. No Master Swords.
Then the kids went against his wishes and named the and they found Hyrule Fucking dense cunts
I should've tacked an inb4 on.
You can bitch about the phrasing all you want, but this duality is a part of life. You could get twisted yourself, you just have to be put in the right places and realize the right things. It's just how it goes.
I think Nintendo still thinks he's at least somewhat viable as a Zelda villain, even if he's dead in every timeline. He's come a long way from looking like the jew stereotype he was designed as in OOT.
The anon you're responding to is an idiot, but if you're honestly mad that Wind Waker gave Ganondorf a hint of depths instead of being Pig Bowser than you're mad for the dumbest of reasons.
>I don't know what story archetypes are, and how stories with similar overarching elements can be drastically different
Anon, what the fuck are you making that planet blue, white, and green for? Guess you just want another Earth, pleb. Hurr hurr.
>Still trying to compare the two
And then we have generic idiots like you. Who don't understand the basic differene between the series.
I want to give an example to explain just how stupid you are but it really can't beat trying to compare the story of WW to LOTR.
So is Ganondorf a muslim?
What are the other race's religions?
why is everyone acting like bringing back hyrule would mean killing everyone on the islands
>"I wish for Ganondorf to be purged from existence so that Hyrule can return and flourish in an eternity of peace."
how hard would that have been
who wrote wind waker's story again? seeing as how it came right after the edge fest that was majora's mask and we've never had a zelda since then with any sort of depressing themes, i feel like there's some sort of connection here.
>I'm a faggot who wants a generic corruption story that is as bad as blizzards writing.
Sorry man but I'm not a retard like you. The dev writers are bad enough as is. I don't lower my standards hopping for fanfiction tier writing instead.
Gandodorf does has lost his roots, but not because your stupid reasons. He has always been a power hungry megalomaniac.
But rather from where he came from, he no longer wears anything related to the Gerudo and diched all his magic for the swrodplay. The nigga needs to be a wizard warlock again.
MM was less depressing than WW for the sheer fact you triumph against all odds and save Termina and presumably helped everyone out with their personal troubles.
WW is the exact opposite, the land is doomed for good and you really helped nobody except your shitty sister who the story forgets about.
>herp a derp there are no corruption themes in zelda, not since majora's mask/link between worlds/twilight princess (to an extent because it wasn't like midna became totally corrupted)
kill yourself, please, because it's obvious you've never played any games in this series
>Effortlessly disables both Link and Zelda to get the Triforce
>In the fight afterwards they can somehow now handle him
>Zelda shoots arrows at him
>He flies over to her, SHEATHES HIS WEAPON, and slaps her
>Outright says he won't kill them
Everyone thinks he just went absolutely nuts after the Triforce was taken from him, but he was still very controlled. He didn't lose it. He gave up.
He let the kid be the hero.
I hope they never expand upon Ganondorf's lamentation at the end of Wind Waker. It leaves so much about him open. It really only fits with that depiction of the character, where he knows that pretty much everyone is a failure. Like everything he ever wanted is already long gone and he's just trying to pick up the pieces.
You're basically arguing that the King of Hyrule should have let the kingdom rise and have monsters go out and ravage the islands on the off-chance that the people on the islands are okay with having a kingdom pop up again.
That would be a terrible thing for a king to decide.
like someone mentioned earlier, in the very first game Hyrule is so fucked there are not even buildings left, everyone is forced to eek out a miserable life in caves. Then we see in six short years after Link slays Ganon there's many vibrant towns named after sages built and Link was helping to reconstruct.
i said it had depressing THEMES. i never said that it had an unhappy ending or a bad message.
i think one of the biggest problems with the majora's mask fandom is that they get too hung up on the depressing aspects and overplay the spooky themes while forgetting that the game rewards you for taking the time to help everyone solve their problems. it's a game where the power of hope and forgiveness is enough to stop the apocalypse, saving a world that was possibly divinely doomed from the start.
MM was a work between Koizumi and Aonuma, Aonuma was there to put in line Koizumi ideas because he was getting overboard with the dark themes, Aonuma is responsible for every silly and happy thing from MM.
WW is Aonuma work alone.
I doubt they will.
Wind Waker Ganondorf worked because he was an old man who had his dream taken from him thousands of years ago. He had mellowed out over time, reflected and was desperately trying to cling onto something he had already lost.
His personality and monologues wouldn't fit the crazy tyrant Ganondorf in the present at all.
i was under the impression that most new fans to the game only liked it because of how 2spoopy it was. they, unfortunately, tend to be the most vocal ones.
all the more reason for them to create a new version so they can do something new with him.
if we can have multiple links, zeldas and even impas, then we can have another ganondorf.
>HH states TP Ganondorf is just as old as WW Ganondorf
How does that even work? There's a far larger gap of time between OoT and WW compared to OoT and TP.
Hyrule in WW was stated to be an ancient kingdom, while TP only takes place a few decades later.
When Hyrule Warriors was in development I was hoping that Ganondorf would have a campaign and Demise would be the final boss of it
Boy was I disappointed
Hyrule in LoZ is fucking dead and had been in the dying for a long time.
That actually adds some interesting stuff to speculate about that we'll probably never be sure was intentional or not thanks to Nintendo's weariness to ever go into major detail with any of the lore within their games.
TP Ganondorf never got to usurp the king of Hyrule, he had the the rug slipped from under him before he could get anything off the ground, he was still plenty pissed off. He then got to vent his frustration by messing with some autistic guy and giving him super powers to live through him vicariously. WW Ganondorf had it all for seven years before getting royally fucked over, then when he tried again he had to sit at the bottom of the ocean for a few centuries.
I liked that zelda games looked like games for kids when they actually had adult themes and underlying vibes of danger and dread, even if outside said dreads lies a happy hopeful world that makes you care enough to save it.
New zeldas look gritty but theyre the mos childish games ever. WW was the last of the old vibe zelda games
>TP only takes place a few decades later.
TP is centuries later, several hundred, and hell it LOOKS like several thousand given how drastically the landscape has changed.
>IT'S BETTER TO LET THE PAST DIE SO YOU CAN CONCENTRATE ON THE FUTURE
>wind waker sequels basically ignore that so they can establish a carbon copy of old hyrule with the added addition of trains
>W-WELL THAT'S DIFFERENT IT'S NOT REALLY EMULATING OLD HYRULE IT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT
I've yet to see one good reason why using the Triforce to wish for old Hyrule to be reborn peaceful and monster-free would be a bad thing. The islanders could choose to move to the kingdom or stay on their shitty little islands. Everyone's assuming that Link wouldn't have been able to murder the shit out of Ganondorf before he could get his hands on it after the King made his wish.
>How does that even work?
I want a game where you play as Ganondorf growing up in his amazonian village and he goes around tapping all that virgin pussy.
Really? The Wind Waker is babby's first zelda?
Have we gotten to the point where most of the people DIDN'T grow up with Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time?
Wind Wakers ending worked perfectly well in its own story.
The problems only arose when Spirit Tracks said fuck you to its closure because they wanted to make a Toon game with trains.
That's a decline. It still existed, and could be restored by normal means. By the time of WW, restoring Hyrule provides no benefit to the people of the world other than satisfying the desires of two lingering relics.
>Old tired and fat
>Fit strong and handsome
TP wins again.
For some reason, I got the feeling each game said one hundred years, which always felt like such a short amount of time.
Looking around the internet, though, neither game said that. Aonuma in interviews said WW was "over a hundred years" after OoT and that TP was "several hundred years" after OoT.
I think it'd make sense of they were simultaneous on their respective timelines.
Is the King of Red Lions the same king that was ruling during Ocarina of Time?
If the Adult Timeline is the one Wind Waker follows, and the king of Hyrule was murdered after Ganondorf took control of Hyrule before the Hero of Time defeated him seven years later, then shouldn't it be impossible for him to still be alive as of Wind Waker?
>implying WW Ganondorf wouldn't be total bara daddy material if WW had TP's graphics
>implying Ganondorf isn't fine as hell in every incarnation with the exception of OOT's jew design that Hyrule Warriors would later redeem
>it's not really emulating old hyrule
It's not. Without the KOTRL, they couldn't emulate the old ways even if they wanted to. It would've been better if nintendo came up with a new name like labrythia or termina, but it's a minor thing.
He's not. The backstory of WW states that Ganon returned several generations after the events of OoT, but the hero did not return, so the goddesses were forced to drown Hyrule. He's presumably the king from that time.
Oh sure, set a child up against an army just because you want to keep a kingdom. That's kingly.
You aren't understanding the point of the Wind Waker. Hyrule was a relic of the past that had its prime. It didn't need to be resurrected. The only one who really wanted Hyrule to return was Ganondorf. If the islanders were to find out and choose, they probably wouldn't really want it because they're accustomed to the island life. It'd be like suddenly saying "Hey, Hawaii. Sorry, but you gotta move everything and go to California. We'll explain later."
Then did Adult Timeline!Zelda have to make due with marrying some old guy so he could be king? I was under the impression that not much time had passed between OOT and the beginning of the flood.
Fffuuuck I love Zelda lore, but the one game that actually structured itself around expanding upon it dropped the ball in quite a few places.
>No one wanted a new Master Sword origin
>No one wanted Ganon's evil to retconned into literal Mr. Evil after the hints Wind Waker dropped
>No one wanted Minish Cap's hat origin retconned
Best thing it did was definitively confirm that Zelda and Link never wincest since Link is always a reincarnation.
There's the theory that the Twili were Gerudo, which I don't really believe.
There's also the theory that this lady was a Gerudo, so maybe cultural integration happened.
>TP Ganondorf never had time to learn how to play the piano
>That's why his castle theme is different in TP
>Meanwhile WW Ganondorf forgot most of the play
Deepest lore indeed.
>people like Ganondorf but want him to remain an evil pig man/sand nigger and not have Nintendo try something different and interesting with him, even if it would be another corruption story
Why? People bitched about him hijacking the plot in TP when that came out because he was so generic compared to Zant. Wouldn't a new take where he's at least a tiny bit different change that?
I never understood why those three Goddesses had to flood Hyrule to seal Ganondorf away. Couldn't they just take the Triforce of power away from him and then chuck his ass into the sun or something?
I always heard the ENTIRE Triforce was just a byproduct of them leaving the world and is nothing compared to the power of just one of them.
>a male Gerudo is born every 100 years
>there will never be a game where Ganondorf is an old and powerful tyrant, life extended by magic/the Triforce and the next born male is a brown, red-haired Link
Zelda fans are split into a dozen different sects that all want something different done with the series, despite every game being so similar to the other.
They have the same problem Final Fantasy fans except even less justified.
So basically they "discovered" a new land that already had an indigenous race living in it and claimed it as their own and set up a monarchy to rule over them.
OUR HEROES, LADIES AND GENTS. THIS IS WHAT OLD HYRULE DIED FOR.
People didn't dislike how my main man G-dorf was depicted, they just didn't like that he showed up so suddenly like 'yo i'm here'
Many were glad to see him back to his old self after enduring years of WW kids praising his sob story.
>No one wanted a new Master Sword origin
Speak for yourself.
>No one wanted Ganon's evil to retconned into literal Mr. Evil after the hints Wind Waker dropped
It didn't retcon shit. Ganondorf is still an individual person separate from demise.
>No one wanted Minish Cap's hat origin retconned
When was that EVER a "hat origin"?
OOT gave an origin for Link's green tunic since he was a Kokiri, did you bitch and moan about that too? No, because the kokiri tunic is just how that particular Link came into possession of the green tunic, or how MC Link came into possession of the green hat much later in his adventure.
What, so this one Link gets a green hat and OOT Link somehow knows this and decides to wear a green hat? Fuck off with that shit.
The two had different experiences. TP Ganondorf was nearly executed and never achieved his goal of taking over Hyrule. WW Ganondorf managed to take over Hyrule. His goals were complete. He'd be less power hungry because he already got what he wanted.
The old Kingdom also ruled over the Zoras and Gorons, if anything it doesn't matter since the only tyranny that has ever existed in the three timelines comes when the pig gets to rule.
And then they're not even comfortable having SS has a complete origin story
>Yeah this is the origin of the master sword BUT IT WAS ANOTHER SWORD BEFORE THAT
>Yeah this is the origin of Hyrule BUT THERE WAS ANOTHER HUMAN KINGDOM BEFORE THAT
>Yeah this is the first Link BUT THERE WAS ANOTHER HERO BEFORE HIM
STARING ACROSS THIS BARREN WASTELAND
And why can't Link be like avatar and be born into a different race with every reincarnation?
This way every race would have a Link and would make shit so different and fresh.
Because contrary to what Zelda fans say, there's no evidence that the goddesses are particularly benevolent. Especially if there's even a tiny bit of truth in the theory that they cursed Termina, but again, that's just a theory.
A lot of the divine shit they do doesn't have a lot of rhyme or reason to it. They're clearly watching over Hyrule and are aware of what's going on, but they don't do anything. When they do do something helpful, it usually causes more problems than solutions.
The writers knew they wrote themselves into a corner after killing off Ganondorf three times and are trying to leave as many open routes as possible.
I hope you're ready to see new console Zelda's from now on following after what Skyward Sword set up.
There is no "green tunic origin", you twat.
SS Link wears it because it's a knights uniform.
MC Link wears it because it's just regular casual clothes and Ezlo later gives him the hat.
OOT Link wears it because he's a kokiri and it's normal Kokiri wear.
WW Link wears it because OOT Link wore it
ST Link wears it because WW Link wore it
TP Link wears it because SS Link wore it
There is no "true origin" to Link's tunic. SS is the origin of Link's spirit, that's about it.
He is. Ganondorf is not a reincarnation of Demise, he is an incarnation of his intense feelings towards the goddesses and desire for the Triforce. That doesn't entirely dictate who he is as a person, it's just his drive for power and dominance. Say what you want about his WW speech but at the end of the day he went off his righteous path the moment he got a taste of power and sat up in his big castle playing the organ while the Gerudo were still in the fucking desert (and he even broke the bridge so they couldn't get out)
Demise is more like his spiritual father, than anything.
>ganon ever seriously being a benevolent or trustworthy character
Not even on an ironic level would that ever happen. He's a 2d evil guy.
Fucking Bowser is a better written villain than Ganondorf
>Especially if there's even a tiny bit of truth in the theory that they cursed Termina, but again, that's just a theory.
It's a shit theory that only came from one autist reading too much into a design quirk for a dungeon and everyone taking that as gospel.
Termina is just re-used assets from OOT that Nintendo haphazardly branded as a "parallel world" in the instruction manual to give a reason why everything looked the same. It's the equivalent of them shrugging, and there's no reason to believe that they put as much thought into the mythology behind Termina if nothing about it is in Hyrule Historia.
>Y-YOU GOTTA LEGGO OF THE PAST MAN
>every other Zelda emphasizes how ancient knowledge / powers will save the day or aide you on your journey to save the land
Every other timeline has Hyrule stagnate in technology for ages and slowly decline while Ganon refuses to stay dead.
Wind Wakers timeline invented trains and killed the motherfucker for good.
Because it has some moments where it tries to be mysterious and cryptic for the sake of being mysterious and cryptic.
Look at the fucking moon children at the end of the game and tell me I'm wrong.
Well as Skyward Sword showed us Hyrule used to be incredibly technologically advanced and full to bursting with all kinds of technomancy.
They had living AI and all.
Hell the Goddesses probably weren't even divine beings, but rather an advanced race so powerful they transcended physical limitations.
Majora's Masks writing is actually pretty lazy despite being extremely effective.
They just threw in random hints of backstory that didn't exist for the sake of making everything look a lot deeper than it was.
Ganon died, Malladus took his place.
>Zelda is actually in a Sci Fi setting but the Hylians are so dense and primitive they assume its all magic.
>Metroid, F-Zero, Kirby and Star Fox are happening right next door.
What's every Zelda game's message?
>Majora's Mask: you can defy fate as long as you keep hope alive
>Wind Waker: you can keep the past alive by living by its teachings and growing, not staying stagnant
Ocarina of Time is the split. Ganondorf is sealed in OoT, killed in TP, and revived by dark magics as his corrupted form, Ganon in Four Swords.
In Wind Waker he is sealed, and apparently permanently, and that's also a different time split from TP.
It's lazy but it had some truly original themes that make it stand out among the other games.
People are going to be talking about Majora's Mask years from now, not Skyward Sword.
I always thought that by "restoring Hyrule" they meant getting rid of the water. So the islands with all the people and villages on them would still exist. They'd just the the tops of mountains now.
Because the new generation didn't know Hyrule. They wouldn't know to miss it. It's best to just let it go and move on.
It's to prevent something like how Neo /v/ treats /v/. They inherited something that they never really knew. And as a result, they don't really know what they're doing with it.
It kinda sucks that the timeline doesn't bother naming their new land something else, since the King was trying to teach them "that land will not be Hyrule, it will be YOUR land."
They could have kept the practices and talked of the the old land, Hyrule, but nope.
No need, the curse of Demise already found its way into a new vessel:
Calling it: Any more games on the adult timeline will feature Malladus as the main antagonist
Wind Waker fans are so desperate to hype their game up and make it seem like it has more depth than one of the most poorly sold Zelda games in the series that was made in under a year, but still manages to be more interesting and significant than their shitty toon game.
>15 years from now Skyward Sword will be a "nostalgic gem" and everyone will go on about how it's the best Zelda game ever made.
Realistically, how will Skyward Sword age?
Ocarina of Time and other games can be easily re-released forever, but Skyward Sword had a pretty unique control scheme and I doubt Nintendo will keep wii motes forever.
I haven't seen a single WW fan shit on MM in this topic. Only the reverse or people saying both games are good.
Quit it with your victim complex. There's no need to act like you're a persecuted minority when Majora's Mask fans make up a huge vocal portion of /v/'s Zelda discussion.
I wonder if Malladus and other non-Ganon villains were why they introduced the concept of Demise's rage. It would keep the cycle in tact without it necessitating a Ganondorf. Ganon just happened to be an incarnation of Demise's spirit that lived a very long time and fought many incarnations of the hero and the goddess.
>this glorious design will never be used in another Zelda game again
>it isn't even an alt in Smash
>All these Wind Waker faggots condoning Hyrule going to shit because it was over and done with
Don't you think the game could've conveyed a much better message if Hyrule was restored but wiped clean from the old days and Link and Tetra build their future kingdom to be on it, in that way both ensuring the future while not disregarding the past? I mean given the sequels it would've made more fucking sense than New Hyrule being a different continent that was the same as old Hyrule but with trains.
yeah, that's probably correct
That theory really does make the most sense though. It would explain Zant's adamance that he is the "King" since that old Guerdo thing says a male is born every so often and is "king", their dark skin and hair color is similar, they seem to have an affinity for the same kinda magix that Ganondorf has been known to use, they're snarky little fucks and they seem to have similar clothing styles.
Also, the Guerdo are just AFK from fucking existence which means they went SOMEWHERE, it's not unlikely they followed their "king".
Link to the Past nigga, it's weird you beat 2 but not 3
we've reached the apex of wind waker fans being the most vocal.
There's probably a good size of /v/ that played wind waker before the other zeldas, or at least completed on their own.
And now they're wrestling with the previous title holders, Majora's Mask fans.
Zelda, as a series is one that I hold dear to me and consider it an integral part of my childhood and my development into the person I am. I have every single Zelda game to date, plushies, figures, sealed copies of games, the works. It is the only game series I have ever had such a passion for and I'll probably continue buying the games even if the rest of Nintendo fell down the shitter
Ignoring the sequels, Wind Waker's story really does work the best with them setting out to find a new world.
There wasn't anyone left alive who had a connection to the kingdom of Hyrule. They were their own culture who developed a life on the sea, and it gave a sense of closure to Hyrule. It was better to leave it buried and make a new life for themselves than try to cling onto something that wasn't theirs in the first place.
The entire existence of New Hyrule basically kills that idea, though.
Kinda sounds like Avatar with the Avatar being reincarnated into a different group of Benders following a cycle. But there may not be any rhyme or reason to what order Link is born into.
Except at any one point anyone could point at WW, OoT, MM, TP, or any other okay to good Zelda title ever made and say it's "Good"
But no one would say the same for Skyward Sword.
It was disappointing to purists, lore nerds, and people who generally like video games.
Not him but that's a straw man argument. Though it would of made more sense for them to just reclaim hyrule the anon in no way implied that they just found a new home once it was taken from them. To the people of hyrule it was done by a devine hand so they didn't have much a choice.
Zelda is the opposite for me.
I've played all of them, but never was hyped for them, I didn't even follow TP's hype.
I saw the imp and thought it was an ugly ass design and never cared beyond that.
Zelda games are something I enjoy but they have very much been background noise my entire life.
Skyward Sword has its own small cult of fans, but I don't see it ever growing to the size of the other fanbases.
The motion controls alone are too much of a deal breaker for most fans. They're one of the most controversial gimmicks in the industry and a lot of people will never be sold on them.
>Why would anyone think it's deep?
Ask the people who think MUH LAND WAS SHITY DESSERT SO I DESIDED TO INVAID URS CUS I WAS SAD ;_; is the deepest fucking motive a villain has had in the history of story telling.
I was here when TP came out, nobody really had a strong dislike for it so much as laughing at 8.8 and general a feeling of disappointment, but nobody really HATED it like SS. Of course WW faggots and their revisionist history to claim every Zelda besides WW is garbage will try to refute that to the death.
While "OoT IS BEST GAME EVA" was annoying as fuck, it is great game no matter what.
I hated the game because of the obnoxious fags but recently I decided to play it.
>Get into spooky black castle
>Piano music in the distance
>Start running up the stairs
>Enter Ganondorf room
>The fucking nigger is playing the song
Who ever came up with that, I hope he had a rise or paid vacations.
I never see people treat Ganons WW motives as ground breaking.
It IS deeper than his evil king schtick from the rest of the games though, where fucking Garland and Eggman has more complexity than him.
>In LoZ Hyrule is a diminished kingdom where the citizens live in caves.
Yes, but the Gods didn;t sink it into the sea.
> In OOT the capital is destroyed.
Yes, but the Gods didn;t sink it into the sea.
> In ALTTP evil is running amok and the king is dead.
Yes, but the Gods didn;t sink it into the sea.
When the GODS' chosen action is "screw it, scuttle the fucker" it's a VERY FUCKING SAFE BET that that incarnation of Hyrule isn't worth saving. The Gods themselves decreed it shitty.
A stealth action game about Sheik would be fucking rad.
Link's instinctual urge to impregnate her would be even stronger.
>Everyone's liked WW since it came out, it's objectively good.
Wind Wanker fags everybody.
OOT is the best
Partially because TP Ganondorf doesn't have Gerudo features
>nose isn't long or pointy
what the fuck
I wonder if they did it because of the split Timelines, Link had the Triforce of Courage when he went back into the past I think, so they were correcting it, Zelda in TP had the Triforce of Wisdom so I assume that OoT Zelda gained that piece around the same time as Ganondorf.
Yeah, that's what people said about TP (besides its dungeons.)
Now TP is widely praised and accepted here.
Really, the Zelda cycle is all just a case of generation gaps and the series getting shittier with each new installment.
>People born before 1995
>People born after 1995
>and the series getting shittier with each new installment.
I think its this.
None of the main games of the series drop below average in quality, but Zelda for the longest time was so consistently top tier that the fanbase got spoiled.
Now that its on a decline they're starting to see that what they thought was the worst was acceptable compared to the shit they're getting now.
>Now TP is widely praised and accepted here.
Not really, it's just accepted, not praised but not outright despised either, nobody can ignore that game's flaws. It actually took me three attempts over several years to enjoy it and beat it. I liked it but goddamn did it make some really stupid, STUPID, and unnecessary choices across the board.
Offtopic, but I've been replaying TP since I never bothered to finish it, and I was collecting Poe Souls.
What the fuck do you do if you complete Snowpeak Ruins before grabbing the Poe in the suit of armor?
All the armor's despawned, since I got the chests, though I didn't know a Poe was in any of the armor. Only one other person on the web apparently had the same problem and the "fix" was effectively some guy saying "Just crush the other suits :^)"
Am I just fucked?
Here is your answer.
For a serious response, the gods may not really have a control over the triforce and this when separated only goes for the most worthy (regarded to it's attribute) to be it's holder.
I never got this. 'Divine prank', yeah it sure fucking is one hell of a prank. Did getting the Power piece in OOT give him the Triforce across ALL universes at all times or some shit?
Oh right. In the child timeline he never stole it and he just suddenly had it. Maybe it's some divine correction because he had it in the adult timeline. Or perhaps it's just because he's the most worthy or most powerful, like you said.
I think it's trying to say that you can't just TAKE a piece of the Triforce, but you have to fit certain criteria. For example, Link and Zelda are total perfect fits for the Triforce of Wisdom and Courage, so they are "blessed" with it. The Triforce of Power, having no previous host when Ganondorf approached, found him to have the necessary qualities to wield it. With Link, it's the Courage of a Hero, with Zelda it's the Wisdom of a ruler or a fucking Goddess like Hylia or some shit, and with Ganondorf it was Power cause that nigga was strong.
So I think he both "took" it and was "blessed" with it.
Speak for yourself WW fagboy
I said clearly you can't ignore TP's flaws, and /v/ doesn't either, just because nobody is praising WW as god's gift to video games like WW fags think it is doesn't mean every other Zelda game's problems are ignored
>you can't ignore TP's flaws
>and /v/ doesn't either
Well he indeed stole it but also, it was never separated before that point, Ganondorf stealing the triorce forced it to be separated and perhaps he only was able to take the triforce of power because he filled more into that criteria.
You seem to forget that the gods do not control the triforce. Also the triforce has no conscious so it does not know of good or evil. It simply goes by those who have the strongest of one of the three traits and by this the triforce acts alone.
Yeah, because some spirit of a long dead guy knows exactly if the Goddesses blessed him with the Triforce of Power or if it just went to him on its own because he best embodied Power.
TP is really hit and miss for me.
It's my favorite in the series, but I'm not blind to its flaws. It's probably a 7/10 overall but some of the shit it does fucking hit the nail on the head. The characters, atmosphere and story easily set it apart from the rest of the games in my opinion, but the dungeons (which, at the end of the day are the bread and butter of Zelda) are long and tedious as fuck which really holds it back from its true potential.
As obnoxious as WWfags are, I feel sorry for all of the hate they get around here. They'll probably end up being the most tolerant and accepting age group of Zeldafags down the line because of it.
When SS came out we had constant threads about it and people were generally enjoying it, but then after a few weeks they did a U-turn.
I guess Skyward Sword is like a food with a bad after taste, at the time of eating it, it's not that bad, but after you're done it settles in.
Minish Cap fans are the most bro section of the fanbase.
They don't come with the obnoxious fanboy mentality of the console Zelda fans and the games recent enough that it misses out on the elitist attitude other classic Zelda fans have.
Don't get me wrong, it did have good dungeons, it's just that some of them where tedious and added a lot of unnecessary "fluff" to the game that bloated that shit to like 60 hours of random shit.
But yeah, definitely better than WW's for sure
Aside of Hyrule Warriors, has there ever been a character HOLDING the entire triforce? Not like pic related but holding in within them.
Because he is evulz. If he was allowed to have a kingdom he would make a kingdom of evulz: see Lord of the Rings. It is a canon fact that Zelda and Lotr are set in the same world and Lotr is the timeline where he rules a kingdom.
It doesn't matter is not cannon, they are just having fun with the setting.
I got the main villains interacting with each other and that was fun.
Why did the three Goddesses even make the triforce? It kinda seems like it was an accident that formed from them leaving the world in the same place at the same time, and then they decided to just chuck it into the Storage Realm.
>tfw you realize that you're and elderfag and you've wasted a decade arguing about video games with progressively younger anon's until you're literally twice their age.
My first Zelda game was The Legend of Zelda, back when more than 70% of people legitimately thought the guy's name was Zelda.
A Link to the Past was fucking awesome, and Ocarina of Time genuinely blew my mind.
My first 3D game was Mario Cart 64, and I remember being absolutely overcome by it's awesomeness and thinking, "This is it...this is as good as graphics can possible get.
When the legend was told in OoT it showed the three of them leaving in a pyramid formation and when they intersected at the top point they vanished, presumably off to wherever it was they came from, and that made the Triforce.
time for bed gramps.
In all honesty, that really hit home with me. It feels like I should move on to something other than vidya.
The master plan of the Zelda universe is that the triforce bearers will eternally be reborn and play out their roles as intended by the gods.
The form of the bearers and the scenario may change slightly, but the outcome is always the same. They have no control over it, it's all the will of the gods.
Ganondorf in windwaker was not a new Ganondorf, but rather the same Ganondorf of the previous generation.
Somehow, that Gannondorf broke the pattern. They don't really explain, but it's likely he defeated the Link and Zelda of his era and took the throne.
This really pissed off the gods, they decided to flood the entire world in an act of divine wrath rather then see him win.
The triforce of power grants Gannon immortality so he survived the flood to watch everything he had worked for fall to ruin.
In the hundreds of years before the next cycle started and the hero of time was reborn again, Ganondorf had a lot time to dwell on the situation and become introspective.
From his new perspective, Link and Zelda were no longer the enemy. He had no reason to take aggression against them, they were just children and there was no longer a kingdom to fight over. Instead, he wanted vengeance against the injustice of the gods and freedom from their will.
Ganondorf's plan to defy the gods was to use the assembled triforce to wish the world back to the way it was before the flood, intending to lead it as a wiser, more experienced ruler rather then the reckless and power-hungry pig ganon he was before.
Would have been a great plan except for the part about going against the will of the gods. Ganondorf wanted to send a bold message by telling the gods plainly that they were wrong and that the people would continue to thrive without them. He'd probably even go so far as to finding a way to physically slay them himself given enough time.
The old king of Hyrule interrupted to stop the plan because the gods have always favored his family and he still believes in them. That's all.
>wind waker overworld already established
>this is how people know the world, only hear differently in legends
>force everything to go back to hyrule
how selfish would that be of the king if he took everyone's home away just to regain his kingdom. The man threw his pride away for the sake of the new world already established. He lost the hyrule he knew, as it's king he must bare that burden, and let hyrule go
My children... Listen to me. I have lived regretting the past. And I
have faced those regrets. If only I could do things over again... Not a day of
my life has gone by without my thoughts turning to my kingdom of old. I have
lived bound to Hyrule. In that sense, I was the same as Ganondorf. But you...
I want you to live for the future. There may be nothing left for you... But
despite that, you must look forward and walk a path of hope, trusting that it
will sustain you when darkness comes. Farewell... This is the only world that
your ancestors were able to leave you. Please... forgive us.
She was tan, she was tan because she was a pirate always out in the sun.
When she is made into Zelda she is more pale, royalty was often more pale due to staying indoors, or if they weren't they put on makeup to appear more pale. She's all dolled up, so she's more pale than she otherwise would be.
She was never brown.
>Skyward Sword kind of established that no matter where Link and Zelda go, Demise will always be reborn as Ganondorf to fuck them over.
Man this was really dumb, especially because Ganon has been reborn only once in FSA. I really don't think saying Ganon is basically Satan's soul was necessary and sort of undermines the fact that the character was originally just some dickhead who got his hand on the Triforce of Power and turned into a monster.
That isn't lazy, that's good writing. Bad writing is when you're so enamored with your own world and stories that you over embellish everything and start explaining the histories and backstories of everything. It's how we arrive at unsatisfying clusterfucks like Skyward Sword, which just had to be the origin tale of everything and introduced terrible ideas.
Majora's Mask has mysteries, but they don't need explanations because what's there is part of the game's cohesive themes. Getting lost in the details would just detract from the point.
>Next Zelda is all about traversing through different dimensions so Link's like the Hero of Dimensions/Space
>Travels between the most recent times between the failure, child and adult timelines
>After defeating the evil of this game, all timelines merge back into one
I'd love for something like this, but it's unlikely since the overworld of Zelda Wii U is very big as is.
Because, dumbfuck, over all those years every single race of old Hyrule evolved and adapted to the new world. If the king wished for Hyrule to come back, there would not be an ocean, dragonroost would become something only Gorons could survive in and so on.
It's really simple, Hyrule never died, it changed and instead of opting to commit genocide to forcefully bring back an empty destroyed bottom of the ocean, Daphnes chose for the new world and a new beginning for a mini Hyrule inside of the overworld Hyrule.
Of course it's easier to go full retard and shout autistic shit and ww babies because it's spoonfed to you by /v/. Must really suck to be such a base lifeform.
>Oh wow. Fred! I've got something.
>Sweet, pull it up
>Hey, I got it. Whatever it is, it's coming up! Woah, it's a fancy sword!
10 minutes later a Ganon emerges from the ocean in a new form - the Gakraken.
Yes I know that's not how his name would work. No, I don't particularly care either.
MAH BOI, THIS DINNER IS WHAT ALL TRUE WARRIORS STRIVE FOR
>mfw they removed the cross from the 8-bit Sword weapon
>but kept it in the overworld sprite
What exactly is the Triforce? It appears to be a macguffin bullshit item that's used to fix everything or get the story rolling.
Am I alone in thinking it's 2nd grade storytelling bullshit?
It's not canon, but it basically seems to be meant to take place at some point after Twilight Princess, but before Four Swords Adventures.
The locations use the names from Twilight Princess (Eldin, Faron Woods) and the events from TP are referenced as being in the past.
The goddesses were like titans, building many worlds and moving on to the next one.
They knew they couldn't deal with every world's problems so they left behind a portion of their essence the inhabitants could use in case shit ever went down.
Each section of the triforce represents one of the three goddesses, their combined power is enough to grant a wish.
It's only supposed to do that if someone unbalanced touches it in the first place though. Ganondorf in Twilight Princess seems to have received it directly by divine intervention, which is why he's even more power crazy than usual in TP..
SS doesn't exist. They were midway through production when Nintendo realized that releasing the game would ruin LoZ's integrity. The decision upset nobody and everybody was happy forever.
>Nintendo's face when there's no canon or semblance of logic in Zelda lore and they are just pulling contradictions and 2deep4u plot points out of their ass as autists purchase three copies of every game and try to explain and corroborate all the bullshit
Holy fuck are you me because that was my same problem with the game too.
I remember getting to Faron Woods and just being put off by the fact that there were clearly carved roads so it looked like people had been living there recently.
When I imagine a woods untouched for hundreds or thousands of years I think of one perhaps like the ones in SOTC, with tall trees blocking out the light and no paths or anything. Hell, the forests and mountains etc in TP seemed more ancient and untouched than that in Skyward Sword.
What we really need is a Zelda game where Link is reincarnated as a woman.
The biggest problem with how Skyward Sword pretended to have some epic story was with how little Link actually does in that game to be a 'hero'.
OoT Link saved Hyrule from a tyrant after it was under his control for 7 years then went on to save another land from having the moon crash into it.
WW Link stopped Hyrule from needlessly being resurfaced and potentially killing all who lived on the islands and stopped Ganondorf in the process.
TP Link drove out the Twilight Realm by killing its leader, killed Ganondorf for good, and liberated an entire culture from some wackjob.
In Skyward Sword nothing feels like it matters because the people in Skyloft are never in fucking danger, Demise only ever fucks about on the surface just literally walking up a small hill. You could say Link made things safe for Skyloft to return to the surface again but the whole game feels pointless up to then because it's literally all some huge fetchquest, and at the end Ghirahim was like 'haha fuck that shit you just spent the entire game doing let's go back in time and kill Demise there anyway'.
The whole thing just feels so pointless yet it's presented as such a huge deal.
This may just be me but I'm pretty sure the Twili are the same tribe that worshiped Majora. Both TP and MM refer to some 'ancient tribe' that got banished, and the eye on Midna's mask looks exactly the same as the eye on Majora.
wherever you want sweetie
only autists give a fuck at this point
Didnt it say in OoT that if someone with an evil mind touched The triforce, Ganon, it would splinter and a third would go to the Person whose values reflected each piece? Thus power for ganon courage for link and wisdom for Zelda. So They didnt straight up give him power piece - that was The safeguard against him getting The whole thing.
you should play this
Who decides that? Whatever happens, happens. If someone wants Hyrule to be reborn and is willing to put in the work, why the fuck not?
It's like saying you should just accept death when you're about to be attacked by a wild animal, instead of trying to survive. Everything has every right to survive, and it's not so much different wanting a kingdom to rise again.
so all that time Link spent frozen in the temple of time. Who saved Termina?
The events of Majora's mask didn't happen. Who was the hero that stopped the moon from crashing into Termina/the world?
Remember that time Ganandorf ruled Hyrule. Nothing bad happened to the land and its people. Nothing at all.
>instead of wishing for Hyrule's rebirth and Ganondorf to fuck off, he wishes for its destruction
It always seemed to me that it was supposed to be him saying that this ganon shit and hyrule shit needs to stop. He even says that the kids should forget about hyrule and live their own lives.
It felt like it was supposed to be the last game chronologically in the series to me because of this. Of course they than made a sequel where link finds a new continent and names it hyrule making it almost completely pointless.
>still thinking there's a timeline
That's it, I'm going to start considering anyone who puts any effort into making sense of this a child.
>game is called LEGEND of zelda meaning they're obviously myths and legends of a great hero saving the world that are told in hyrule
>stories are loosely connected through villains and location except for some which are direct sequels (like the james bond films)
>shiggy himself even says this
>autists kick and scream and nintendo gives in and makes a stupid, broken timeline anyway
To me, there's no "timeline" unless it's a game leading into a direct sequel
I'll never understand "HY people are so desperate for a timeline.
>I'll never understand "HY people are so desperate for a timeline
Because they're all children with wild imaginations and they have the need to force fit the lore into their own fantasies.
Just look at this thread, it's just senseless speculation and shit they pulled out of their asses.
This would've been an amazing challenge level for Hyrule Warriors
>objective is to get the Triforce piece
>beat all of the giant bosses and all of the main bosses
>four or five giant clumps of them surrounded by mooks