"We can't add Lucina. People will hate her for being a clone. They'll lose their waifu" "No. Smash Bros needs its true waifu. You either die a waifu or live long enough to be shoehorned in everywhere. I can be shoehorned in everywhere. Because I'm not a waifu, not like Lucina. I am the unecessary clone. That's what I can be." "No. No you can't! You're not!" "I can be whatever smash bros needs me to be." "They'll hate you." "You'll hate me. You'll condemn me. Set the dogs on me. Because that's what needs to happen. Because sometimes you need a scapegoat. Sometimes people deserve their waifu. Sometimes people deserve to get more smash porn"
"Why isn't he an alt costume dad?" "Because we have to hate him" "He didn't do anything wrong" "Because he's the clone smash bros needs, but not the one it deserves. So we'll hate him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A Dark Pit"
>>267763162 They're saying that people think that unique characters would be put in instead of clones when the reason the clones are in is because it took hardly any time to make them and they're basically just the icing on the cake
I'm butthurt about this too. Especiallly because Sakurai said he wanted Wolf over Falco in melee and Falco was only their to be a visually distinctive clone of Fox. Then he gave Wolf a unique moveset in Brawl and I thought he was sure to stay
>>267763880 My thoughts as well. Dr. Mario and Lucina have a lot to make themselves different from Mario and Marth, but beyond small stuff (DP's electro arm knocks at a lower angle than Pit's arm, DP's ftilt has a different sweet spot than Pit's ftilt as well, and DP's arrows don't curve that much) what makes DP different from Pit?
>>267763080 More? The only major difference there is Dr. Mario being what normal Mario should be already. There is no "more" with them there since they are more or less alt costumes given a character slot. Sakurais Dark Pit got in as a clone but they cut clones too? It's retarded. There were better ways to pad the roster and he chose to suck himself off just a little more. When people started calling him out on going too far he started name calling like a bitch. Sakurai can fuck off.
>>267764664 I don't agree with it at all. He's meant to make a product for other people, not himself. If he adds in his favorites and Donut Steels to the roster and expects to not be called out on it? He can fuck off. It's that simple.
>>267764830 Don't even bother. Every time someone brings this up the shills handwave it and call you the same names Sakurai spurts out as if his shit don't stink. KI:U most certainly did not deserve three reps, even if one is a clone, over other franchises like DK. They'll start claiming how well a series does doesn't matter and other bullshit, or how popular something is, but it's all more handwaving garbage.
>>267764836 It's something they do very often. FE2 (Alm's official art varies from green hair to blue hair, his portrait has blue hair), FE5, FE6 + 7 (Eliwood is the main Lord, but it also has a blue hair protag), and FE10 (Micaiah is the new protag introduced, but Ike is also in) are the games to not have a blue haired main protag.
FE13 can probably also be counted, considering the avatar totally steals the spotlight from everyone. Lucina is hardly even a main character.
>>267765040 So now Smash Brothers should be made as fast as possible? Let's make everyone a Mario clone then. Why bother putting effort into the roster, the main important thing of the series, when we can just pad it with infinite clones and the shills will eat it up?
>>267765481 You're more than welcome to be happy with franchises like DK being shafted because Sakurai doesn't give a damn about anything the west enjoys, but I'm not. He can fuck off. Which I'm sure he does to all his Dark Pit porn.
>>267765861 Did I say that? I'm saying he made the roster heavily one sided for the East and neglected Western fans. When western fans have had enough after seeing Dark Pit they're going to call him out on his bullshit, which I see nothing wrong with. If the roster wasn't blatantly one sided then I'd be far less pissed.
No, one character in Lil Mac does not make it any less one sided.
>>267765620 I would have been happy if they cut Dark Pit just to put in more resources for new character victory themes. So many of them are recycled straight from Brawl
>>267765981 People hated Meta Knight for a totally different reason, because he was a broken piece of shit that was unfun to play against at even the most casual level. I was hyped for Metaknight too, so I feel your pain.
>>267762951 What I would actually prefer is the bottom, because it would save me the time of having to complete the game with the extra shitty characters that add nothing of real importance to the game.
I don't even care that Dark Pit's a clone. I just hate how he's the most lazy clone ever made. He has exactly 2 statistical differences from Pit, differences which don't really change how you play the character.
The time it took them to think up, plan, and create equipment and custom moves that can't even be used online and really have no place in the game could've gone to making more characters or making certain characters more unique.
>>267766280 >Here's the issue: it's not that there's clones, it's that the clones they chose to make are bullshit. Literally grasping for straws just to be mad at this point
>Why does Kid Icarus get more reps than several other more-deserving series? Oh look, more whining about how your favourite character didn't get in but someone else did. Kid Icarus has 2 reps and a clone. A clone that was added just for roster padding's sake. No other character was harmed in the 15 minute development of Dark Pit.
>Here's the three clones we should've gotten instead: >Dark Samus >Any Pikmin captain >Lucas No bitch, that's not a solution, that's just what you personally want. No one else would fucking like that. Why would I want another Pikmin captain when we already have Alph? They all look the damn same.
Kid Icarus, Mother and Pikmin all have two reps each and Metroid has three, instead of the nonsensical representation we have now. What does it matter how many "reps" they have? It's a fighting game filled with unique movesets. Sorry you can't fulfill your little headcannon make-a-wish stories filled with your favourite characters but you're supposed to be playing the game.
>>267766704 The proof is right there in the final 3DS version. Instead of Alph to help give Pikmin another rep, he chose Dark Pit. Totally not because he's bias, but because Dark Pit is just so much better at everything and has a shota dick mmm Sakurai sama do no wrong.
I just don't get how you can get butthurt about literally bonus characters that are solely there for their fans. Lucina fans are happy about Lucina being in. Dr Mario fans are happy about the Dr being back. Dark Pit fans are happy about him being in. Anyone else should not even care.
Like, are people also getting mad that you got the 8-bit sword as a bonus in Hyrule Warriors? Of course not. Why would you be. Only smash fans are retarded enough to get mad over getting more stuff
>>267766832 I'm still waiting to see if they have a few extra characters being held back to help hype the Wii U version. Yeah I may be setting myself up for disappointment, but that seems par for the course regarding Smash 4.
>>267767023 Did anyone want Dark Pit? At all? What could he do differently?
You'd still have to model them, which would take more work
>>267766914 You're just being stupid. If single rep franchrises like Pikmin or Metroid got clones, people would whine just as much, if not even fucking more, because they didn't get real reps but only clone reps instead of a proper newcomer.
The alt costume clones are pure fanservice and aren't there for representation of the series
>>267766527 >Mewtwo isn't exactly relevant in the games either. You are either stupid on purpose or you haven't played any Pokemon games. >catchable in Gen 6 in an area only for Mewtwo >The only thing that surpasses Arceus' BST (with Mega Evolutions) >Got 2 Megas >still appears in the anime (Mega Evolution Special and Origins) >got a signature move in gen 5 (Psystrike) >multiple distribution events in B/W and B/W2
The only way to make it more relevant would be to make a whole game about Mewtwo.
>>267767312 If Sakurai does shit I don't agree with, as the consumer, I'm allowed to bitch about it. This isn't entitlement, this is being a goddamn consumer. It's entitlement if I expected this shit for free, which I don't. They don't have to listen to my bitching, but people are well in the right to call Sakurai out on bullshit.
Remember that smash fans are the same autists who thought Ridley was gonna be playable. Remember that smash fans are the same autists who thought that Sakurai would NEVER EVER make a different character an alt costume for another character. Remember that smash autists are the ones who complain if you get too many modes and too much options to play around with. Remember that smash fans are the autists who make up retarded patterns like "FE Lord will always be replaced by new FE Lord" or "Most recent popular Pokemon will always be replaced by the very most recent most popular Pokemon"
>>267767515 >Honestly they should've made Alph a semi clone and not added any of the 3 clones
The 3 alt costumes clones don't even take nearly the same amount of time as a single semi clone. Also nobody even wanted Alph, you're just latching onto Alph because he is in as an alt costume and are grasping at straws
>>267767391 >catchable in Gen 6 in an area only for Mewtwo Like lots of legendaries. >The only thing that surpasses Arceus' BST (with Mega Evolutions) Except not Rayquaza is doing that next >Got 2 Megas So did Charizard >still appears in the anime (Mega Evolution Special and Origins) I said game, you retard. >got a signature move in gen 5 (Psystrike) Multiple Pokemon have signatures, Pikachu's came late too. >multiple distribution events in B/W and B/W2 So did other legendaries.
Mewtwo isn't special, he's just another legendary now.
>>267767391 >>267767339 I really don't get it either. He's certainly a Pokemon staple, and he's globally wanted to return in Smash. I see no reason at all that GameFreak and/or Sakurai would not want him in because it would generate hype and make fans happy, which can only be good for sales and word of mouth. I really don't fucking get it.
>>267767192 >play differently How exactly? Pikmin management is Olimar's gimmick. Nobody else can do that. Making him a clone makes it less special. We don't get clones of characters like the IC, Mac, Robin, or Lucario with the same gimmick. We get Link, Mario, Fox, and Falcon, characters with no gimmicks.
>>267766281 Except jigglypuff lead to a very unique aerial, offstage play style that no other character can really compare with. Jiggly may not be relevant to pokemon anymore, but why would you get rid of a unique and fun to play character?
>>267767748 >Like lots of legendaries He was still the first Mega Evolution shown, One of the only few to get 2 mega evolutions, and got a new movie out of this generation
>Except not Rayquaza is doing that next Are you honest to god trying to bring up the future as an argument? lol
>So did Charizard Yeah, and he's in the game. Other than that Charizard doesn't meet up to Mewtwo in this "who deserves it more" contest in the slightest
>I said game, you retard. That's not how Pokemon are decided for Smash, "you retard." "What are the new Pokemon? Who's hot right now? Who's being shown in the movies?" literally the questions Sakurai asks GameFreak
>got a signature move in gen 5 (Psystrike) >Multiple Pokemon have signatures, Pikachu's came late too. >multiple distribution events in B/W and B/W2 >So did other legendaries. This shit is just a clusterfuck of unneccessary
>Mewtwo isn't special, he's just another legendary now. Choosing to ignore reasons as to why he's special doesn't make him unspecial
>>267768348 You're out of your mid if you think Mewtwo is more popular than Charizard. And Mewtwo isn't the only pokemon to get special treatment therefor he isn't as special as you make him out to be. Most of the Mega evolutions were from Gen 1 and Mewtwo is the biggest Gen 1 legendary, so no shit he got one first.
No wonder modern companies do day one DLC bullshit. People these days would COMPLAIN if you gave them all content day one. They want content to be held back and then charge for more feeling they got more by paying more
>>267767748 Your arguments are fucking nothing and you also went full ad hominem. Mewtwo is probably the most relevant Pokemon along with Charizard and Pikachu in the entire franchise. >Like lots of legendaries Mewtwo was the only one who got an entire area for itself. Aside from Xerneas and Yveltal. Zygarde only got a small side room in an ingame cave. >except not rayquaza is doing that next 1. You dont know that yet 2. Mewtwo is still the first thing to surpass Arceus >So did Charizard Which is in Smash and also the only other thing that stands up to Mewtwo in terms of relevance >I said game, you retard. okay >Multiple Pokemon have signatures, Pikachu's came late too. >So did other legendaries. Yeah. That's true but it shows that GF hasn't forgotten about Mewtwo.
>>267767748 >so did charizard guess why they both got two? because they are the two most popular pokemon ever made and you really have to accredit it more to the anime than the games. Stop acting like that shit doesn't matter. Kalos gave Mewtwo a focus just like it gave the gen 1 starters and it gave to lucario with korina.
>he can only make shit analogies and can't voice a proper opinion
Are you saying you're entiteled to DLC? Because you're just being stupid for the purpose of being stupid. Would you also complain if Miss Pacman, Protoman and Mr L as free DLC characters a week from now?
>>267768659 >You're out of your mind if you think Mewtwo is more Popular than Charizard Please show me where I even implied that. We were talking about reasons why characters deserve to be in, and we presented them. Not a popularity contest. Mewtwo being one of few to get special treatment makes him special. That's literally what being special is. Just because you're not "SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE ONLEH JUAN IN TEH WORLD" doesn't mean it's not a special case. Regardless of the fact that Gen 1 pokemon got Megas (Which isn't even a correct broad assumption), he was the first one shown ever as "Mewtwo Awakened". You said it yourself, Mewtwo is the biggest Gen 1 legendary. On top of all the other shit that you choose to ignore that alone makes him worthy of being in this game.
>>267768558 It's the same amount of effort as modeling Dark Pit's side-special. The inclusion of Alph as his own character offers nothing different to the inclusion of Dark Pit. People would still be fussing.
>>267769002 >makes him worthy of being in this game. Never said he wasn't worthy, show me where I said that. He's no more relevant to the entirety of Pokemon than every other legendary other than being part of the first gen.
>>267769453 You said he wasn't relevant in the games. In a game where these monsters are out by the millions and all you do is capture them and use them for some RPG-Style fighting, for them to go out of their way to make Mega Mewtwo Y the posterboy for Mega Evolutions, including him in the X and Y story as well as making him the original "bad ass ultimate legendary" pokemon, yes, he is relevant in the games as relevant gets when you're not a human character. He's definitely more relevant than Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Groudon, Kyogre, Rayquaza, and so on, because he keeps coming back, keeps buffing up, keeps appearing in movies and squeezing himself into mainline parts of games aside from the fact that there's over 600 pokemon now.
Alph doesn't look all that different to Olimar at all on the 3DS screen. His nickname was literally Blue Olimar when Pikmin 3 released. And you faggots would call him that right now and bitch about him if he was also a clone
Secondly, the main crux of this whole thing is that Dark Pit is an undeserving, practically identical clone that brings absolutely nothing to the table, whereas Alph could use other Pikmin in new ways and reference an entire game.
>>267762951 The existence of custom moves should have made clones obsolete and freed up space for previously clone characters to fully get their own moves. Instead we still got clones and the ones that should have got unique moves were left unchanged or worse were cut. Fuck Sakurai.
>>267769953 Yes. Everybody fucking knows this. I played Uprising, and although he wasn't the best character he was still pretty entertaining. That being said, from a design standpoint, he's Pit with a new coat of paint. That's the biggest factor as to why people don't like his inclusion, and why Alph is brought up so much.
>>267770078 >>267770165 You guys are arguing over the wrong stuff. Sakurai was going to give us his "dessert" after a fancy meal and expect us to be impressed no matter what. This is a matter of wanting the Twinkie or wanting the same rice you just had but with pepper.
>>267770409 No I wouldn't because I clearly haven't been shut posting about Doc or Lucina here because the main crux of my argument is in regards to Dark Pit's design. You can't just place us into lala land and expect to win the argument.
>>267770832 Not much, which is why I'm not campaigning for him over Dark Pit. Pit's moveset is fun but nothing special, so Dark Pit being a clone is something I couldn't care less about. Olimar represents Pikmin near perfectly on his own.
>>267771121 Fuck Dark Samus. Dark Samus is a great enemy in the Prime games but it being a dark Samus is the absolute least interesting thing about it. I would rather have SA-X if it has to be a power suited clone.
>>267770832 Rock Pikmin, which for some reason isn't even a fucking custom move. There's other stuff from Pikmin you could pull from to make a moveset like the treasures, enemies, bomb rocks, sprays etc.
>>267771264 And I'm saying that Olimar shouldn't get a clone because he's too unique. He has a special spot in the game, and his moveset deserves more respect than that. Alph would be a far more egregious clone than Dark Pit ever was.
The only reason Dark Pit is in is because Sakurai wanted the Electro-Arm in the game but felt it didn't fit Pit's character. Dark Pit also has Zelda's Final Smash because he felt the Sacred Treasures didn't fit Dark Pit.
Meanwhile, Dr. Mario's Final smash is exactly like Mario's, Falco still drives a Landmaster, and Toon Link doesn't manipulate the wind.
>>267771783 Because it's interesting as a clone of Samus, whereas the name and design of Dark Samus actually hold it down as a character. Dark Samus' name and design bring nothing interesting to the character, it does nothing as a parallel or a rival. It's a monster that just so happens to look like you sometimes.
>>267771967 If Dark Pit actually was unique or used more of the KIU weaponry like his staff, then I'd be easier on him. He'd be more like Wolf and Lucas. But nope, he's Melee-clone tier, completely superfluous and pointless.
Nah. Lucina was a highly requested character and a lot of fans wanted her. And she was easy to implement since she's basically female Marth and Sakurai would've been an absolute retard if he DIDN'T throw fans that bone.
Initially he wanted her as alt costume, but then decided he wanted to surprise fans by making her a seperate character. Might even be because of Gematsu Leaks. Then he needed a bit more clones to not make Lucina a jarring exception and Doc and Dark Pit were also made clones
>>267772745 Dark Samus is very interesting, but Dark Samus is not interesting as Dark Samus. Calling the Phazon monster Dark Samus and making it a black version of the power suit did nothing to make the character more interesting: it didn't use Samus' powers and it didn't exhibit any of her personality. It was just a monster that happened to look like her. A fine one, but not really using the dark bit well. SA-X being Samus' power suit with a parasite showed off how terrifying the greatest bounty hunter was and how much of a walking army she came off as. It used the clone part of its character to great effect.
They took out clones that actually had significance i their series like Lucas and Wolf (who should have replaced Falco), then added a FOURTH FE rep and a THIRD KI rep (who is so blatantly a bad recolour, it`s nuts). Even the Doc shouldn`t have come back, if it meant cutting the second Mother rep and only viable SF villain.
>>267770435 >>267770526 Well obviously they function the same way in gameplay, but so do Pit and Dark Pit. Alph however does fulfill a different job from Olimar though. Again my argument is focused on character design.
>Ice Climbers got cut because the 3DS cannot into processing power >Snake got cut because of a strained business relationship between Nintendo and Konami >Squirtle and Ivysaur were cut because they were relics of a cut transforming mechanic >Wolf was cut because he was part of an over-represented franchise and the clone without the tenure >Lucas was cut because reasons
DON'T YOU FUCKING PULL THAT RELEVANCE ARGUMENT ON ME YOU KNOW THAT IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE 3DS' SHIT PROCESSOR, ICE CLIMBERS WOULD HAVE BEEN BACK IN AN INSTANT
Whether he is or not, doesn`t make him a ethical choice in a game like Smash 4 as a representitive. He might be significant in KIU, but he`s at the bottom of the creative barrel alongside Sonic recolours.
>>267764651 >Have a friend who is obsessed with Kid Icarus: Uprising >I mean, it was a good game, but this guy takes it way too far >He always plays Dark Pit >I ask him why he uses Dark Pit instead of regular Pit >"I just like his attitude" >He actually chose a character in Smash Bros for their attitude >He actually likes Dark Pit's 2edgy attitude >Can't even call him a no-taste plebeian because he's one of my only friends
>>267774129 >implying people don't play Wario purely because of his attitude >implying people don't play DK purely because of EXPAND DONG >implying people don't play Pac Man purely because of AW MAN I'M A MEME
I mean, I like KI:U but most people that like him seem to be shota-obsessed creeps or only play him because they know other people don't like him.
I don't have a problem with him being in Smash because he clearly fucking didn't take any effort, but FUCK did he bring even MORE shitty people to Smash which is the last thing the game needs then the game's fanbase is already awful.
>>267774642 I like him because when I saw him get created in the story I was like "Oh boy now I have to deal with edgy muh darkness pit for the rest of the game" and then he turned out to be an actually decent character that just happens to wear all black.
>>267774642 I think he's neat because he pretty much is neutral in all the shit that goes down in the game. He sees that the gods are all retarded and fucking everything up for their own gain. I feel like he also appreciates Pit more than anyone else in the game when all the gods take him for granted.
>>267775223 >palutena only cares about muh humans that worship me >viridi wants to kill all humans for muh nature >hades wants to kill fucking everything >dark pit realizes how stupid they all are >"fedora" ok m8
damn links jab combo makes it kinda hard to get in, had to pick lucario and spam side b to outrange the motherfucker, lucario side b at 150% is fucking godlike. fuck you by the way whoever this link player is
>>267775972 >Plot armor is nothing new He doesn't have plot armor >and certainly not worthy of the Dark moniker. He's the literal manifestation of Pit's dark qualities >Anything else? Yeah you're a faggot
All of Melee's clones in Melee have more differences than Dark Pit and that was with
1. a much smaller team 2. only one person (Sakurai) working on character balance 3. rushed as fuck. Melee was only developed in 8-10 months while Smash 4 had 2 and 1/2 years. For Melee Sakurai worked 16 hour days and somedays he even had to sleep at his job.
If Sakurai REALLY wanted to make Dark Pit more different, he could have, but he didn't want to.
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