I only play zoning characters like Mega Man and Samus.
How do I beat this fucker when I can't even get him off me so I can start zoning? Most of his moves beat mine or he can super armor through them.
Fire shit at him like rockets/ crash man bomb.
Dodgeroll often when he gets close.
At about 50 percent throw him off the edge. Samus has great throw range, take advantage of that. Mega Man has the hard fist, take advantage of that and spike him off the stage.
Little Mac is not a character that can be fought at the center of the stage.
Little Mac is the first anti zoning character in smash brothers. It's only natrual he'd give you trouble. Just try to play smarter.
megaman can just slide to punish almost everything mac does on shield, otherwise just use his godly grab. You cant really zone him out, hes too fast and ignores most of megamans projectiles.
When he does the huge side jump punch thing (I think its his side B) it beats all of my missiles and metal blade. Every single button he has seems to launch me. I try to short hop with Mega Man and do flame sword but it beats that too, should I try to short hop and do my bair instead? It always seems to never get the kill hit.
It sounds like to me you need to keep your distance with rolling more. When he launches himself at you and there's a little distance. Time a nice dodgeroll and use their throws. Samus and Mega Man have great throws. Samus' having nice range while Mega Man's is 2fast.
Shieldgrabbing is your best bet.
Also, question for Little Mac players.
When your KO meter fills, what is your mentality? What do you want to do? Bait a grab and land it? Or bait a dodge roll? What seems to be the most effective way of landing it?
you have a couple of options.
stay by the ledge, he's naturally going to try to get you center stage.
megaman is amazing at stopping momentum.
when mac charges you, throw a saw blade at him, or shot lemons, it stops him in his tracks and gives you a second to think.
naturally he's either going to roll toward you, shield, or continue dashing and either countering or dash-hit.
at this point it's quite easy, megamans d-tilt slide is really good against mac. i usually roll BEHIND mac and hit him with the slide.
it launches mac upward where you can chase him off-stage with megamans flame sword.
megaman is all about pressure, especially against little mac. your job is to make him nervous.
crash bombs and saw blades are definitely the bane of mac
I use Megaman and Samus online too, OP.
These people are right about the grabs. The thing is that you need to be imaginative and alterneate between various possible reactions when he approaches you.
When he gets used to your shootings surprise him with a dash attach, which are very good either in samus and megaman. Then, when he begins to read your dash/physical attacs, try shield grabbing on the edge of the stage.
Alternate between various strategies and he will begin to commit silly mistakes. And don't get too confident when he is in the air, remember he's got a great counter attack.
You will loose stock and your % will be high, but you will eventually win.
>play Jigglypuff against a Mac on a floating stage
>run away the entire time
>fly under the stage as the bombs drop
I've never even thought about it as "I only use zoning characters". It's just the ones i'm liking the most so far.
I also use ness, for what it's worth. But i'm a little mad that his dAir doesn't spike anymore. Or at least as it used to.
I guess I prefer characters with variety in the moveset rather than physical only based ones.
>LM's fsmash can super armor through literally everything
>even 4 smart bombs at once
>fast as fuck
>only negative is not being able to hit point blank
How do you beat that?
Hold away, the floatier you are and the higher percent you have, the easier it is to get out of the jab combo, if that's what you're referring too
Also you can break some jab combos with Thunder or counter, not sure which characters it works for and against
>Hold away, the floatier you are and the higher percent you have, the easier it is to get out of the jab combo, if that's what you're referring too
I think some characters can just get out of it. I used it on a Bowser and he was just so big that it didn't pick him up off the ground.
>all these people saying grab
Megaman's grab is really good, but be careful around little mac. Little mac has one of the best dodge roll kara grabs in the game, you have to watch out for that. Megaman's kara grab is pretty good, I suggest learning how to do it or you'll probably lose a grab game against a good mac.
I have no idea what smashfags are calling the dodge roll kara grab thing, but it's a fuckin kara grab.
>pk fiya pk fiya
>throw off ledge
ness da besst
>Play vs Greninja
Okay, I know he will just spam that shadow thing, so gotta keep an eye on the gr-
On the other hand, killing someone with dair is so satisfying, and I'm suprised that his down b in the air has so much killing power
I didn't even play him in any other smash games, and it's not my fault Flaco is shit
I'm an unintentional tier whore tho
>love Jigglypuff in the anime and decide to play as her
>people realize she's one of the best characters in the game after Hungrybox and Mango play her
>get called a tier whore for playing high tiers
Same thing with Olimar in Brawl
I've started using
Pikachuin Smash 4, does that mean he'll hopefully. rise up a few tiers as the game goes on? Probably not.
>Okay, I know he will just spam that shadow thing, so gotta keep an eye on the gr-
Yeah that gets me too, the best thing to do is just shield when you see Greninja disappear. Pretty much impossible to punish it on Brinstar
>all these nerds taunting after a kill
FUCK THIS SHIT I'LL FUCKING KICK YOUR ASS IN ANY REAL FIGHTING GAME
-fast, movement attacks and recovery
-fucking finishing kick
-killin aint easy
-no dair (you should probably never divekick unless you're sure it will punish somthing)
-fucking finishing kick
I prefer shiek heavily, but most people would say ZSS is better and I wouldnt argue that.
The fact ZSS samus doesn't have a down smash that can beat rollers really hurts my play style.
I also dont like her moonjumps, but thats just som,thing to get use to, she has lots of great moves especially forwardsmash and fair.
Shiek can zone a little better but her grounded smashes are definitely not as good for killing, with shiek you have to chase off the stage/ land finishing kick to kill at a reasonable percent, but I find that pretty fun.
Play both and just roll with whoever you click with better they are both top 10 tier wise (not that that should affect your decision).
>he sideB's off the edge both stocks
Well that showed basically nothing.
SideB is basically fucking suicide with Mac. It's so hard to just stay away from it unless you're 1,000% sure you're not gonna eat shit for it.
Fighting Mac is an absolute joy with this little asshole.
I don't have much experience with either of them or smash in general so I can't comment too much. I guess I'll have to do what you said and play both to see which feels better. Though I don't like the gun on ZSS or the bomb/grenade on Sheik.
They never know what to do.
It's funny to watch Macs get more and more frustrated and just start dodging like crazy fuckers.
Yeah, but he absolutely shits on Mac if you know what you're doing.
You can grab someone while they're using their shield, yes, but a shield grab is when you block an attack with your shield and counter with a grab immediately before they can recover.
Be a huge faggot and use nothing but shield and grab.
I'm telling you this from experience. Once my friend realized how good I was with little Mac he'd do nothing but side B with Bowser and begun winning every match
Just corner yourself so mac can't get behind you and stay in shield. Mac is a horrible character. I've never lost to a mac on for glory by just throwing him off, baiting out the obvious counter/air dodge, then hitting him one more time.
hes not horrible hes just picked by a lot of new players who think hes gonna be easy to play.
He scrubstomps but if he isn't running in your face constantly throwing out dash attacks he isnt that bad.
See the problem with this thread is that people here haven't seen what little mac is capable of. Little mac is the only character in smash 4 who can basically dash in wave dash back due to his incredible back roll. He has incredible baits, super armor, fast normals, and an instant K.O. move. All he needs is a few reads to end a stock.
Shiek needs to go into fucking helpless state if she misses Bouncing Fish. There is no risk to using this move off-stage. The hitbox is huge and if you land it you bounce back. If you miss, nothing happens. The move cancels quickly enough to where you could still throw out an aerial attack AND recover. This is all Shiek players do in For Glory. They bait you off-stage and spam Bouncing Fish. You choice is to either eat it or go in low for a very risky recovery.
>When he does the huge side jump punch thing (I think its his side B) it beats all of my missiles and metal blade.
Dude are you not playing the edge?
The fuck man, always have you back directly to the ledge when zoning against Mac.
mac cant handle it, if you roll you're gonna eat dash attack.
If bowser jr is ever uncomfortable in spacing how are you gonna stop him from using up b and blowing your ass up to get away.
If you seriously think bowser jr isn't a problem matchup for mac you dont have much experience.
Don't be afraid to edgeguard.
Ganon's aerials are all amazing for edgeguarding.
Also try to play defensively, becuase Ganondorf's approach is awful without his dropkick custom.
if they don't have a spammable projectile they have to approach you & then you can punish.
Wizard kick is also good at punishing rollers but don't overestimate its range, also it's incredibly powerful if used in the air, try to surprise opponents with an air kick for quick kills.
I just use it for mindgames since it's about as likely to hit as a Falcon Punch. Opponent goes nuts jumping around playing keep-away so I just use it to push them to at least jump to another side of the stage to set up some other attack.
well i have been in the competitive scene for over a year now playing at a fairly high level. granted not at brawl so this type of gameplay isn't as apparent to me but I haven't seen Bowser Jr apply a lot of pressure.
What moves of his apply pressure? He has his very slow neutral B which is easy fucking peasy to not get hit by.
When I have played against the lil robots I just pick them up and throw them back at BJr
They probably consider Cap to be plenty strong on-stage and not have a problem getting kills, while Fox needs to edgeguard to claim his points.
Unless you land the Up-air or Up-smash, though. This is why Sakurai is bad at balance.
Is there any hope for her?
Should I just give up and pretend she isn't on the roster?
Surely somebody has some advice.
you cant counter ko punch, I know you shouldn't really be testing fate like that but it pissed me off because I really wanted to rub it in to this one mac by killing him that way and it just hit me.
Jesus fucking christ that was a bitch until I
cheesed it with Bowser JR
Jesus fucking christ that was a bitch until I
cheesed it with Kirby
>200 knockouts in infinite smash
who's the best at cheesing this one? I just get bored after a while and lose focus
Question for fellow captain falcon players, why does his throw whiff so much, the only times I get it to work is when I run from a pretty long distance and then grab, any tips for landing this shit? I do fine grabbing with other characters by the way just not with him
Why does everybody and their mother have a counter or reflect now? Honestly it's gotten to the point where I feel naked if I don't have one of those.
Play defensively and punish mistakes. She doesn't have the best offensive game but she has some strong defensive tools, being the only character with both a counter and projectile reflect (see point above). Try to spike people with your dair as well, it isn't actually that difficult to land with her.
>tfw Ganondorf in For Fun Team Battle
>Other team is bothered with Kirby
>Accidentally do my up tilt
>Opponent Little Mac comes near me by dodging out of Kirby and lands right on my attack and dies
Not the guy who asked and it its probably a stupid question
But what is a pivot grab ?
I see the term pivot in general pretty often in smash threads and forums and i dont know what it is since i only tried to get competitive with sm4sh
Her smashes are actually pretty strong. Her upsmash has a ridiculous upwards reach, and it can function like a wall if somebody tries to go in on you from the air, while her forward smash has good horizontal reach, plus it has a windbox in front of it, so you can push people away.
Down-smash is okay, but it doesn't have anything special.
if I find a use for it I use it, otherwise I ignore it
>he keeps chain grabbing the edge and shooting arrows at me
>meter fills up
>think fuck it, I'll take his challenge
>run over and wait for him to pop up
>KO uppercut right to the fucking face & launched off screen
he might have just been a garbage pit, but that was a fun fight
Her down tilt is good at spacing and stopping people who rush towards you. Her jab is great and can set up for throws. Her up smash is godlike and can catch a ton of people off guard. Juggling with your nair and uair are great options and they're hard to dodge. Down smash can kill people for rolling around like idiots. Her dash attack is great since it launches so you can chase them with nair and uair. Her fair is great for gimping people.
She's more defensive, so don't try to rush down. Also people shit on her specials but they're pretty useful: her reflect is great since it stays out long and she can move while it's out, her warp gets her out of sticky situations, and a counter is a counter even if it's not the best. And autoreticle is kinda bad since it's so slow, but it's good for annoying people if they're far away
>rack up a little damage on mac
>stand by edge
>wait for incoming dash attack/b side
>walk off stage
>Mac cant recover for shit
>rage quits all day
Is there any way to gimp someone recovering with that slight wind burst from her smash attacks?
I feel like it could work as a faster, mini-fludd, but I guess only if they're barely about to make the ledge anyway.
Also don't use your warp just to recover, if you feel like you're being pressured too much, use it to get out and move around the stage. It also helps for those annoying moments when you're above somebody and they just don't want to let you back on the ground.
Bonchan already stated he has the rose matchup like 90% down.
Yeah sagat can't stand at max and tigertigertiger, doesn't mean the matchup is bad. He lost at evo because luffy was on point and playing the best of his life, and he was unfamiliar with the matchup.
Not the guy you were first debating with.
How are mindgames not pressure? Unless you're only talking about literal physical pressure.
When you're launching balls and throwing robots down, you're limiting your opponent's options. They have to maneuver to your will now.
Also there's only a very small window where you can pick up the robot, and if you miss it you're punished for even trying.
This all sounds like good advice, thanks bros.
I'll stick it out and see how things turn out. I'm really only used to over-aggressive characters so this will be an interesting change.
As a DK player, I say: defend, defend, defend. Little Mac players love 'em dash attacks. Defend, throw him away and you have some time to charge your shot, etc.
Pic not related.
A character whose gameplan is to keep you in a specific area, usually in the general area of "Away" but sometimes in more specific areas like half-screen.
A good example would be Dhalsim from street fighter. He has a mediocre projectile, but his punches and kicks stretch up to 2/3 of the screen. He wants to be 2/3 to 1/2 screen from the opponent so he's in range of his strong attacks (the stretchy limbs) while being out of range of his opponent's strong attacks.
Samus can almost have three projectiles out at the same time, trust me, it's dangerous
Also, super missile plus charge shot breaks full shield if not perfect shielded, I got a couple of those out
Why are her hitboxes so awkward and small? I missed a forward smash on a grounded zss because she was too low.
How can he get in safely anyway? All his air moves seem bad so short hop aerials kind of seem like a bad idea, you can't crouch cancel your run into normals so you can't just come in with his jabs, and his dask attack and side-b seem really punishable and put you directly into the opponent's grab range. The only options that seems good are dashing into grab and a pivot ftilt. It doesn't even seem like he gets good options off a grab either.
I still haven't played the game that much so I don't know a lot about this yet.
I don't think you can play Omega stages in Classic mode.
No, I still had my recovery and was going to make it back to the stage anyway, albeit just barely.