10 years ago on this day, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 was released.
Charlie Kalash's Ultimate KotOR II Modlist: http://pastebin.com/Cfr83GNr
While this game was released incompletely and rushed for the holiday season , I do believe it has stood the test of the time with help from the Sith Lords Restoration Project and Team Gizka.
I know people on /v/ usually say that the game is "2deep4me" and that Kreia could never be pleased with the Exile. I always took it as a lesson that all your actions, whether good or bad, have consequences. It's one of my favorite storylines and contains a lot of memorable dialogue and character interactions.
I never actually played Kotor 2. I just assumed it doesn't work on modern systems like Kotor 1's crashing every 5 minutes.
I'd pay full price for a re-released version that works on modern systems with no hassles. No upgrades or anything. Just make it fucking work.
For me, the best thing they added was interaction with your party. I really liked the whole Kotor 1 party, but the influence system in 2 was great. Turning your mates into your Padawans was the shit.
HK-47 - "Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope... Love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticule, and together, achieving a singular purpose against statistically long odds."
>playing vanilla KotOR II
Son...I'm disgusted and impressed at the same time.
Dual wielding blaster jedi god is a lot of fun in a Mando battle suit.
Ha! Been wanting to use this.
We should send Chris Avellone a tweet. I would if I had an account. I know he and the rest of the Obsidian team get down together every once in a while behind closed doors and draft KotOR III ideas for fun.
It's great that they're open and just as excited about the prospect of the game as we are provided they're given a chance.
So was Kreia ever confirmed to be Arren Kae (and thus the Handmaiden's mother) or shall it forever be my headcanon?
Also a related must read for every KotOR II thread.
As long as you don't believe the lies of The Old Republic.
Yes, and it was glorious.
My most favourite RPG ever, and the best SW thing I've ever seen.
I only played with a restoration mod, though... And it was fully worth it.
I think the Exile would have died if he had not given up the Force on that fateful day at Malachor V. He cut himself off from the force in because of self-preservation and sheer survival.
Otherwise, I don't think he could have handled the loss of so many lives all at the same time.
Nah the only good Bioware game is MDK 2
Also I bet that BG 2 only turned out good because of the involvement of Black Isle
Which one, KotoR? I'm on win 7 64-bit, tried all the different compatibility modes and it always crashes once I get to the part in the tutorial where grenades are used. Only modification I'm running is the widescreen and ui shit
I had the same problems, I tried so many "fixes" I found in forums I got sick. Recently I just tried to run it on my laptop (which also has win 7) and it runs without problems.
Anyway, one of the many tips I got (didn't work for me, but maybe they do for you) was setting to windowed mode in the swconfig.exe as well as checking the "disable movies" or something box.
Oh I had the same problems with an amd card.
Don't even try to figure out some logic to when it runs or does not. This shit is completeley irrational and based on luck.
Try it out on another rig if you have the option.
Or get yourself an xbox
My friend always told me of how there were secret rooms and torture chambers in the final level of Malachor V (You can still see these locations listed on your map, but they're not accessible)
In one of these chambers you found Revan's corpse - he had been held captive there. Apparently the very earliest versions of the game were released with this content, but most were recalled and replaced so Revan could be used later in the series (SWTOR). Does anyone know this to be true?
There is also a bonus mission as HK-47 on Talos they removed, footage of it is on YouTube
The plot was great. I enjoyed the fact that 2 broke the mold in the sense that, rather tan having you take part in some huge galaxy spanning war, the war had ended years ago and you job was to pick up the pieces and understand the larger ramification for yourself and the galaxy. The arc of finding & confronting the Jedi Masters over your exile was also a great framing device and it's climax at the Dantooine enclave is one of my favorite scenes in all of vidya.
Also I thought the Revan plot twist was stupid as hell, and like every plot twist it can only support the narrative your first time though it, and after that it lends nothing to the story because the surprise is gone.
I dunno about the revan thing. Seems unlikely to me, what with all the hype around him going out into the unknown regions to fight the real sith.
The HK factory on Telos is in the restoration mod.
The story in KOTOR2 was a deconstruction of both SW and RPGs, brilliant in its foresight, showing all the logical inconsistencies in the SW universe, ripping on the genre convention in an entertaining and edgy way, and having one of the most interesting backstories for a protagonist, without one big plot twist, but with a ton of a smaller one which are a lot more impressive as a whole despite not giving the same "wow" moment.
Plot twist in KOTOR1 was great, but it does not even close compare to the story of KOTOR2. Being a literal wound in the Force, sucking away power from your closest friends is a lot more interesting than being a Sith some day in the past.
Really, it was awesome.
I liked KOTOR1 a lot and enjoyed it thoroughly, but you are wrong.
Not Revan, no. He was always out in remote space looking for the true Sith.
The unfinished area you're talking about in the academy was supposed to be part of a final moral choice. Your trained jedi party members would confront Kreia and get wrecked. She'd imprison them, and you'd have a choice to either take a short path straight to her, or a long and enemy filled path to rescue your friends. The LP linked in >>274661318 talks about it and shows the cut confrontation. It also has the HK-47 droid factory assault on Telos.
>The story in KOTOR2 was a deconstruction of both SW and RPGs, brilliant in its foresight, showing all the logical inconsistencies in the SW universe, ripping on the genre convention in an entertaining and edgy way.
I do love how the best written SW game was the result of Avellone and his writing staff sitting down to watch/read/play every single piece of media ever produced under the SW name, flatly stating "we weren't very impressed", and ripping it to shreds.
I had thought that, but I guess i just included Malachor V as 'remote space'. Plus it's possible that he was captured and taken there. But you're right, they weren't the 'real Sith'. That was The Emperor etc and the stuff they showed in SWTOR.
How do I get more into the lore?
Which novels or comics are recommended?
I only played Kotor 1 & 2 and right now I am reading through tons of wiki articles to fresh up my memory.
I honestly don't want to play TOR though.
>see this thread
>decide it's time for another playthrough
>played through this game a gorillion times when I was younger
>dig up the case
>'disk one out of four'
>lol, it really had four disks?
>whatever, let's get it started
>disk one is missing
>the cd-key is also missing
Replaying right now. Vanilla then RC mod. Still crashes frequently but god damn I love this game.
I'm also going to install feat and force progression mods, possibly an influence mod for early god like exile and companions
I thought KOTOR II's take on the Force and Star Wars in general is a lot more interesting than the usual simplistic black/white dichotomy that is presented in...pretty much every other source.
>Kreia has gone through 3 names, 2 costumes, and countless lies at this point, but you always get the sense that she's stayed true to her own character throughout. That's good writing.
Why 2 wil always be better than 1
>I honestly don't want to play TOR though.
Now that it's free, it's worth playing at least the 4 Jedi and Sith storylines. Imperial Agent too if you like spy intellegence stories.
>mfw playing through 2 straight after 1
The difference in the writing is actually quite daunting
>hating on Manaan
Becoming the Swoop king of the planet and getting acknowledged by everyone is cool. The Sith Basis was pretty cool too. Having to defend yourself in the court was pretty cool.
The underwater basis was cool too.
The part where you had to walk on the ground of the ocean really slowly was fucking short. Like 5 minutes. Yet everyone complains about it.
>Tfw TOR just turned The Exile into Revans waifu
This. I never participated much in KOTOR threads, and I always though Manaan was one of the most awesome planets.
It was really original in design and a lot of plot ideas, in my opinion.
Especially this side quest about serving as a lawyer. I liked that your client turned out to be objectively wrong, you had decsisive evidence, and you needed to decided whether or not to rat him out. It was a rare example of somewhat more gray morality in this game.
Also, despite playing a goodie-two-shoes, on my first playthrough I actually got exiled from the planet because I didn't figure out that I fixed the shark problem the wrong way (the faulty translation could have been at fault, but I still remembered it).
And the whole forced peace between Jedi and Sith was ripped on a lot. It is one of the few planets where you actually feel like being Jedi is not absolutely good thing and that you might hurt other people with it, but at the same time the whole idea of peace between two such different philosophies was mocked too.
I played it a long time ago and only two times, but that's what I got from it, at least. Feel free to correct me, it could be nostaligia glasses.
Bottom line, it was my favourite planet.
Really, Kreia could probably fill the whole chart with her quotes.
Yes, I believe you could even find an example of a Lawful Good quote. Maybe just one, but there probably is such a moment.
"The Lucasfilm rep told GameSpot, '[A]s far as The Old Republic MMO is concerned, nothing is going to change. [TOR] has always been a part of the Expanded Universe, and that's not going to change.'"
>implying you wouldn't blindly follow someone with a mullet only Captain Planet could rival
You mean 2?
More of a deconstruction than an outright condemnation. It plays with the established themes and expectations and takes a closer look at the implications of them
In the process, I think they made one of the most meaningful Star Wars stories out there.
These two slap your girl on the ass. You haven't leveled up in many hours and all your good gear is on good characters. wat do?
... Are you talking about the fact that /v/ doesn't hate it and doesn't scream about how everybody who likes it is stupid?
Because talking about how everything is awful and anybody who likes everything is an idiot is more cancer than anything else.
Atton is a girl?
Anyway, had no trouble killing them.
>You haven't leveled up in many hours
Characters you don't use still get XP.
>all your good gear is on good characters
Inventory is shared, though!
Also IIRC you could get behind the counter and their pathfinding was bad. Or just use nades, or OP shields.
>there are people out there who cad troubles with KotOR combat
>Obsidian will never be given a thumbs-up on KOTOR 3 with a reasonable deadline
Since 99% of the EU has been abolished, they need to rebuild anyway. Why not start with KOTOR since it's one of the few instances where a timespan not directly to the movies was left untouched?
I always thought of it as a loving parody, in a sense.
EU was abolished. TOR was EU, and is still EU. As in it wasn't abolished.
>I didn't see this coming and had Atton in shit gear
>tfw I did this and somehow beat them
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean.
... I guess you have a point. If you think about it, it deconstructed it to hell and back, but it never outright mocked it. It always stayed in-character, never fully breaking the fourth wall and, in fact, more destroying the boundaries of SW story formula than anything else.
Yeah, I can see. They probably do love SW, after all.
Also, you're completely right about the story.
>Install the restoration pack
>Get to Nar Shadaa
>Exile get's kidnapped
>Mfw those waves and waves of enemies you have to fight through to get, well, ANYWHERE.
By that I mean, after, all it always treated the universe and the moral dilemmas inherent in it seriously and with though. In fact, more seriously than George Lucas himself.
If it was an outright mockery, it wouldn't do so.
She doesn't, no. If you play as a girl, you get this guy.
I love this goddamn encounter, because it's a rare example of establishing & building character via gameplay. We get hints (or straight up told if you've had the Jedi convo with him) that Atton is an ex-assassin who knows echani fighting styles and is an all around badass. But up until this point you don't get too much of a sense of it.
Then two renowned and feared assassins show up to off him, and Atton calmly remarks they've picked the wrong target, and you stand up and slaughter them even if he's not a jedi. After that ended, it was the first moment I thought "oh shit, Atton is actually pretty awesome."
Everything released after April 25th is considered canon. Shadow of Revan was released how long ago?
Unless expansions don't count as new releases, but this whole rebranding is a bigger clusterfuck than the old EU anyway.
And apparently legends isn't just "non-canon", more "they're kind of there but they didn't happen that way unless we say they do.
And yet somehow cost ~$300 million to make, was marketed up the ass, and still had to go free to play in less than a year. Seriously, how did the destroyer of studios EA not shitcan Bioware after this fiasco?
Hey now, voice acting by average joes isn't necessarily a problem. Pretty sure that System Shock 2 was voiced by anyone in grabbing range of the developers' office, for example.
Atris was great with a male Exile. I liked how the LP pointed out the convo with her at the end of Telos is basically a boss fight in dialogue form. It makes sense too: if you pick the right options or have enough Int/Wis/Perception, you can tear down her arguments & point out exactly what the consequences of her viewpoint are, and she can't do anything but get more and more pissed before finally dropping it. It's so goddamn satisfying.
Many people didn't love that you only defeat Darth Nihilus because your very presence gives him an awful Force-variety of stomachache.
I loved every second of it. Who says I can always defeat villais through my own power, after all? Sometimes it just happens you can only defeat someone because you were lucky to be just the one person who he gets a tummy-ache from.
When overused, it kills the suspense and makes everything anticlimactic. When used correctly, it makes everything anticlimactic, and you love it.
I think, Darth Nihilus was the second case. If only because it really drove point to home just how terrible an abomination Exile really is, and how you defeated him not through strength comparison, but through being more of an insult to nature than him.
Also, you talk Sion to death and defeat Kreia with your own pure power anyway. By the way, it's yet another brilliant and logical detail: you need to defeat the best manipulator with pure strength (because you can't best her at manipulation) and the strongest fighter with words and manipulation.
Given that legends are supposed to essentially hyped up and distorted versions of events, you could argue that the Shadow of Revan was a bulls-eye in the TOR mythos.
Again, rebranding is a clusterfuck in any case. KOTOR is Legends too TOR happened either just as much or more so than it.
I did enjoy arguing circles around her. She wasn't used to someone actually fighting back.
A hot, red-headed bounty hunter chick, or a wookie psychopath. Hmm, difficult choice...
Yes. Yes he is. Hits me in the feels that he still calls you General after all this time and all he's been through.
As much as TOR was bad, the voice acting in the game at launch was rather good.
Here's Revan from his first appearance.
They've been cutting costs like crazy to get more money.
I also loved how both of them were failed students of Kreia who were walking, breathing examples of why relying on the force too much is an awful thing. And if you play in a way that your Exile understands Kreia's ultimate lesson, you realize you are probably the only one who can defeat both of them, and can even point out to Sion that he's everything Kreia hates about the force, while you're everything she loves. His slow breakdown is great.
That he is.
>Your command echoes still, General. And I obey, as I did at Malachor V.
I can't remember, is it confirmed whether or not he dies at the end of the game? I know all you see of him is a recorded message on remote.
You're just fighting with pure fnord now.
Yes, it's edgy and grimdark. Is it bad? What is your problem with it?
Not everything needs to be a saturday morning cartoon. I like both Gurren Lagann and KOTOR1 as much as the next guy, but I don't want to turn everything into them.
Hanharr was interesting in that he was basically Obsidian going "What if we made Zaalbar but with an actual personality?" but to get him you have to follow the retarded evil path. Mira also has an interesting backstory/character/dynamic, and she also earns points in my book for being the only companion to actually thank you making her a Jedi.
>want to play KOTOR II
>Restoration Project breaks it every time I install it
I might as well play the Xbox version. I'm sure they could hire a few code-monkeys to make everything flesh and work right together, but they'll never re-release it due to all the confusion around canon.
He doesn't show up on Malachor at all outside of the hologram, even in cut content. I think the implication was that he died in the crash landing, but who knows? Even with the restored content mods, the endgame is sparse & rushed as hell.
Wait, the events in KOTOR2 didn't happen exactly as they were told?
I really kinda expected that, but I'm still sad. KOTOR2 deserves to be canon to the max... or wait, does it? Maybe it's their way of making sure they can rewrite the ending and fix non-included lore wherever they want?
Kinda unlikely, but I could kinda understand it from that viewpoint.
I just realized I have never had Mira as a companion and I've played through KotOR 2 at least 6 times. Wtf is wrong with me?
I'd agree that there's a lot of risible edgy writing in the game but there's plenty of legitimately good impressive writing too. All of the droids in the game are amazingly well done. The campy action hero movie stuff on Onderon was pretty good too, managing not to feel out of place in a game with so much dark and edgy shit while also not being a "look how dumb this is" wink to the audience.
Legends is Disney's way of keeping characters around just in case they ever want to use them. What better way than just making the EU a mythos instead of an accurate retelling?
Really? Didn't know that.
I know it's kinda strange to claim Death of the Author for KOTOR2, considering, well, everything, but I want to claim it on that particular point. It works, in my opinion.
The other option would make more sense in a game, but this one makes for a better story.
>tfw there will never be a vidya romance as good as the Bastila one from KOTOR
You have to understand that Bioware fucking hated Kotor 2. They disliked how much it ripped into their own game, such as retconning Reven from Generic Powerhungry Sith Lord 143 to someone who did evil out of necessity to strengthen the Republic war machine. They also disliked how it deconstructed established SW ideas like the Force, which makes sense since KOTOR 1 was as vanilla Star Wars as possible, and if they incorporated all of Kotor 2's events into TOR, it wouldn't let them do the same generic SW story again.
So they shat all over KOTOR 2 with TOR in the same way KOTOR 2 shat all over KOTOR 1. An eye for an eye, I guess.
Any pirate willing to share a good torrent of the game? I got one from TPB but for some reason the droid NPC from the tutorial world wasn't showing up.
I'm actually playing this game again I played this game on the original Xbox when I was in like 2nd grade. And I literrally am blown away at how good the writing and the characters are. This game shits on KOTOR 1 (because Bioware didnt make it). This is probably my favorite RPG. No hand holding no way to tell sometimes what your actions outcomes are.
>im a spoiled brat
>im a spoiled brat
>im a spoiled brat
>im a spoiled brat
>im a spoiled brat
>hey maybe we should be friends
>hey maybe we should be more than friends ;)
bioware cannot write romance
>Same Jedi attitude of being too emotional, but denying it and saying instead that YOU'RE too emotional.
>Rails against you hitting on her the whole game, until she suddenly demands you kiss her with no build up.
>The kiss is a fade to black because Bioware's modelers are lazy as fuck.
>For all her holier-than-thou talk, she falls to the darkside after one afternoon of torture.
>The big romantic climax is you telling her she's a moron, and her going "yeah I guess you're right, I'll be lightside again I guess."
I must have missed the part that was well-written.
Fucking hell...I'm too old for this goddamn site.
Anyone every do an unarmed only run?
Easily the best time I had playing KotOR 2
mfw finding disruption gloves in some rubble pile on the surface of Malachor
>such as retconning Reven from Generic Powerhungry Sith Lord 143 to someone who did evil out of necessity to strengthen the Republic war machine.
I love that he goes from being a slightly interesting former Sith Lord to some master manipulator
HK wins for those ever so accurate portrayal of Bastila and Cartha
>"Oh, Master, I love you, but I hate all you stand for! But I think we should go press our slimy, mucus-covered lips together in the cargo hold!"
>Oh, Master, I do not trust you! I cannot trust you, or anyone else ever again!"
So Revan died but someone possessed his body? Or part of his spirit remained in his body? What the fuck is going on? Also, it sounds like they didn't get Jeff Bennett to play Revan again, and he somehow looks worse than he did ten years ago.
Nope. If you saved the masters, she calls them on all their bullshit and hypocrisy, and then kills them by cutting them off from the force. If you killed them, she explains that you didn't understand her lessons and became yet another failed student like Sion or Nihilis. She gives an awesome speech explaing just how shit you really are, then kicks the shit out of you.
A little bit. But it was her own choices that screwed her up so bad. I'm afraid my main beef with her was the same as Kreia's: She doesn't teach. She says she's a jedi, and she has amassed tons of jedi lore, but she takes no students. Doesn't pass on knowledge to the next generation.
No. If you are light side, she talks to Jedi Masters about how they are horrible people for
trying to cut you off from Force yet again after you saved them, and how you are the only one who understands things, and they are self-righteous idiots.
And I had played it for two weeks prior to this, since I had an Xbox version review copy. Finished it twice. Wrote a positive review. Didn't get any gamestopping bugs, didn't break any scripts.
To this day I still don't understand how some people had such a different experience.
Funniest part of the game, right there. Had me in stitches. Oh, HK...
If you go Light Side, she basically criticizes you because you cut yourself off from the Force out of fear, not a deliberate choice.
Inconsequential, though. She was always going to betray you. Her final test for her greatest student.
>tfw played the game while still being in school, didn't really understand her light side speech, but understodd that I don't understand it, felt unworthy of her approval, now want to replay just to finally get what she was talking about
Mind you, usually I got her philosophy just fine... Except for the whole speech. So, maybe, I didn't actually get her at all.
All she wanted was a student that succeeded. That really understood what she was teaching. Sion and Nihilis were colossal failures; everyone she has taught have become power-hungry madmen.
>Do you wish to feel the teachings born of the Mandelorian Wars? Of all wars, of all tragedies that scream across the galaxy? Let me show you - you who have forever seen the galaxy through the force.
See it through the eyes of the Exile.
Chills every time.
If you want to play a le dark and le edgy game with fake depth and forced drama, play KotOR II and watch the prequels.
If you actually want to play a game that plays like a space opera, play KotOR and watch the originals.
>If you go Light Side, she basically criticizes you because you cut yourself off from the Force out of fear, not a deliberate choice.
Yeah, but at the same time she still respects the Exile for being able to survive without the force. Compare the Jedi Masters at the enclave, who drop dead the instant Kreia cuts them off from it. Even if she is a bit disappointed, the revelation that you did so in the face of such tragedy and still survived is something beautiful to her.
>Revan in KOTOR 1 was a boring character with a cool outfit and an interesting twist.
>Despite only appearing once In 2 as a ghostly image, Obsidian turned him into a Machiavellian machinator who used the Jedi and the Sith as tools for his greater plan to save the galaxy.
>Bioware turns him into shitty mary sue in TOR
Well yes. She isn't disappointed in you, especially if you go Light Side. She just needs you to face one final test, to see if you've learned your lessons well.
That crap about killing the Force? It's nonsense. It's just a lure to get you to chase her. She never could pull that off, even if she wants to. But if the student can surpass the teacher, then all her suffering will have been worth it to her.
There's also the fact that the Exile doesn't fit into their black & white Jedi vs Sith dichotomy. A light side Exile is not a Jedi, does not follow Jedi teachings (at least not exactly), and is a walking wound in the force who's power stems from the same source as their greatest threat, Nihilis. But he's also not an evil psychopath or clearly following any sith teachings. Because of that, they really don't know what to do with him.
Rather than try to accept what the Exile is, or even make a hard decision, they just default to their same old judgement that the Exile is "different", and thus needs to be cut off from the force and Exiled. That's what pisses Kreia off more than anything else: that in the face of everything that's happened, the Jedi still refuse to acknowledge anything beyond their own narrow world view. It's why she steps in and kills them.
Exactly. And I want to replay it because I didn't really understand what she tried to teach. I got the little details right, but I never could synthesise it into a big picture that would explain why she did what she did.
there's a mod for it but given how broken this game is without mods that drastically change large sections of the game i would just bite the bullet and play as a disgusting heteronormitave male
The popular fan theory is that Kreia is Arren Kae and Handmaiden's mother, yes. It's also backed up with a ton of evidence. The most it's been officially commented on is Avellone responding to the theory with "nice catch", which is what he's historically said to theories that weren't intended, but he likes/think make sense.
That's not an opinion shared by a whole lot of people on /v/. I wanted to like Carth way back in '04 during my first playthrough, but I kept feeling like he was an ass. I've felt that same way every subsequent playthrough.
Not that guy, but I always thought Carth was pretty bro for saving my life and sticking by my side even when it turned out I was the guy who killed his family, because he trusted the person I'd become over who I used to be.
Bioware didn't understand that the reason he wasn't a Mary Sue in KOTOR2 is he was never shown.
He has all the characteristics, but because he is not shown, he can be an idea and a character, and not a plot device.
>but I kept feeling like he was an ass.
Same here. But I think that's his "I've been hurt before, and won't trust anyone ever again" thing coming thing.
He's a nice enough guy, and a well-written character (for Bioware), but I don't feel like he ever makes that leap from "decent guy" to "awesome bro" at anytime in the game.