I always hated in this systems that you cant dodge because reasons . Ye i know it sounds retarded but oh fuck how annoying it was when an enemy fucking threw something at you but your character was like "duuuur". Thats why i like what i have seen of XV
the problem with complicated battle systems in rpgs is that battles are repetitive, and happen frequently. being complicated and time consuming makes it exhausting quickly. the battle system is rarely the focus of the game and is instead tertiary to characters / plot and resource management
For me, any RPG that isn't turn based or can't be paused anytime is an ARPG. That includes FFs after X.
Honestly, I can't really understand the appeal of those. Because you're limited in response time, they can't add complex battle mechanics nor can they make you ponder your choices for long. At the same time, they're not as nearly exciting and the true ARPGs.
>>284174780 Not really since every game I've played with action based combat is still just as easy. It is your own fault if you grind a game into oblivion and make it piss easy but a lot of turn based games are fun and challenging if you are level appropriate.
If you don't like turn based just play other games.
>>284174780 No it's kinda shitty, but the problem is it's either the same shit you already played with the same team comp like tank, mage and healer or they try something slightly different and it's even worse combat (hello xenoblade)
>>284176538 Maybe if you got the time to get bored. Since I got a job it's the only thing I can play. I don't need to stress myself with fast paced games. But yeah DDS encounter rate was terrible I get what you're saying.
>>284174780 >Am i the only that got bored with turn-based Battle systems like 10 years ago ? Turn battle are fine against hard enemies where you really need to think about your next actions but since using basic attack is enough for 90% of the encounters in a lot of rpg it gets old very quickly
I'm really bored of turn based too. I used to love it, now i only enjoy it if it's done really well, but which pretty rare. I tried to play Divinity: Original Sin since it gets so much praise, but the turn based just really turned me off so i had to quit it.
There was a thread a while back with some sperglord saying RPGs can only be turned based, and if it's not turn based it's not an RPG. That was pretty hilarious.
Unless you have brain problems there are very few turn based games nowadays that force you to hard grind. Half the time I end up over leveled just because I'm having fun playing the game but I guess playing the game is grinding now.
>>284174780 Aww man speaking of jrpgs there was this one jrpg that had a rocking soundtrack. An anon posted it in a great soundttacks thread a few months ago but I can't even remember the title. The cover of the soundtrack though was some guy who reminded me of Gyro Zeppeli a little bit. The song's (or was it game?) title had either romance or love in it.
I like turn-based in general but it's also easy to fuck up a turn-based battle system and make it boring as shit.
For example I'm finding it almost impossible to finish Persona Q at this point because I'm bored of the battles. I think if it was realtime I'd probably have an easier time forcing myself to grind through it.
If it's done well it can be nice and strategic, and also provide a more laid-back type of gameplay than realtime systems.
There is nothing wrong with a battle system being turn-based.
That said, a lot of JRPGs share a shitty system where the best course of action is to hammer the attack action until the enemies go away. Normal battles are like the world's worst QTE and sometimes boss battles are no better. However, there ARE some good uses of the system. Generally games that make good use of it heal the party after the battle so that they can make every battle difficult instead of a grind to wear down your HP and force you to use potions/heals.
The best example I have ever encountered is Genius of Sappheiros, a Touhou doujin game. It's a JRPG I actually enjoyed a ton for the gameplay, while story was secondary (if not almost entirely absent). Even normal battles are hard, and boss battles are a real test of strategy (and sometimes patience).
>>284177764 I assume you mean j- cause there are many real RPGs with good combat. Try Valkyria Chronicles, it has decent tactical tb combat, far surpassing any jrpgs (at least to my knowledge) and style, chars and story are good too.
>''WAAAHHH TURN BASED COMBAT SUCKS!'' >Have you tried playing ''acclaimed game with turnbased combat'' or ''other well praised game with turnbased combat?'' >''YEAH THEY ALL SUCKED'' >Well maybe you just don't like the genre or style >''NO THE GENRE IS THE PROBLEM NOT ME''
jrpgs are strange they are pretty much just stories but since you press buttons for 100 hours it feels like you are really playing a video game i'm not complaining though, some of my favorite games are jrpgs. it's just that i don't have the attention span unless the game really draws me in somehow which is very rare the last rpg i've played for more than a few hours was smt4 because of the cyberpunk stuff. have to say that my favorite part was the music followed by the graphical environment work, lol
>>284177169 >Everyone knows that Final Fantasy is the CoD of turn based RPGs. You just confirmed to have never, ever played FF games. Considering the series hasn't been traditional turn-based since IV, which was 24 years ago.
>>284176816 No. The concept of the game started out promising but the more they showed off the shittier it looked and everyone hoped it was going to get fixed before it was released, but it wasn't, not even remotely. Part of it can probably be blamed on a lack of budget but I think Imageepoch took on a project that was way over their heads and it ended up pretty much as anyone should've expected when it was announced by them in the first place; a complete disaster.
They should, for the time being anyway, stick to making cheesy 2D tactics rpg's on handhelds instead. As much flack they get, I kinda enjoyed Luminous Arc 1 & 2. Shame we never got 3.
I get bored with shitty turn-based systems. Where you lack control tools, have to rely on shitty AI and the fights look like each other and drag out for too long. If the game's battle system doesnt have the movement, the placement of your troops dont matter, everyone takes a turn in a row, chances are the game is fucking trash. That includes most jrpgs, old western RPGs, but the stuff from -95 to 2005 was usually good and had some great ideas about turn-based combat.
>>284179873 >>284179983 >>284180356 This is all true but I wouldn't use the word "children", more like... losers? Losers want to run away from reality because they have created nothing for themselves in it. They would rather blame the world for their shortcomings even though they know that it's truly their fault. The pain escalates, so do the addictions. Video games. Losers. All of /v/.
I can enjoy both turn based and real time, but my experiences with people (real ones, not anon on the internet) seem to indicate that at least a decent portion of people who dislike real time really only dislike it because they have poor reflexes and reaction time, and can only beat turn based because there's little to no such skills involved.
Mostly this has just come up in discussions over FFXV. I know people who love the old games but jumped right on the "XV isn't turn based FF is ruined!" train, and every point they put forward for why eventually comes back to "I don't like real time because it's too hard."
Aside from a system that isn't a shitty "mash attack to win", a turn-based RPG really needs a fuck ton of bosses. For most turn-based RPGs, the bosses tend to be where the player's knowledge of the system is tested, which tend to be the best kind of attles.
Having every normal encounter be like this would honestly be kind of tiring, especially if there's a material collection aspect to the system.
>>284174780 It's weird that people have been experimenting with the jrpg formula for like 25 years but still haven't gotten it quite right. If anything rpgs have regressed since the snes era when games like chrono trigger were trying to make bold changes in the genre. Personally, I would make an rpg consist entirely of bosses. Bosses are actually challenging and tactical, but dungeons are just a grind. All that happens is that resources like health, magic, and items slowly decrease as your numbers increase. Given enough time, you can overlevel yourself and remove any challenge from the game. Invisible random encounters have been obsolete since the early 90s, how Final Fantasy gets away with this today is beyond me.
>>284180724 I didnt say most games rely on AI, I said it usually is a shit feature and almost always is poorly implemented. And also I didnt even imply that games starting with 95 were old. I was talking about stuff like Wizardy or MnM
The funny thing is when people turn based combat is harder. So fucking hard. You need to fight the boss twice to memorize his attacks and the counter to his moves. Good luck doing that in KH 2 vs Terra or in BBS vs Mysterious figure
>>284180790 >Bold changes Literally ATB which was used in many Final Fantasies.
> Personally, I would make an rpg consist entirely of bosses. Bosses are actually challenging and tactical, but dungeons are just a grind. How would that work? You would have no mooks and all the "dungeons" would actually be single room with a boss in it. Unless you put bosses as mooks but then the bosses would be mooks and not bosses.
> Invisible random encounters have been obsolete since the early 90s Are you kidding me? They haven't been obsolete, ever.
>how Final Fantasy gets away with this today is beyond me In 13-2 and 13-3 the monsters are not invisible. Or 12.
>>284174780 as long as it looks cool I don't mind. If characters are actually moving, fighting and attacking I love it. See Last Remnant, FFX(X-2 aswell) or even Persona 3/4
However I get reall turned off by very simplistic visuals in battles; that's what turns me off from many old RPGs. I can still deal with something like SMTIV because the artwork is still interesting and the battles are quick, but it's really pushing it. I don't really blame the developers for me not being able to appreciate it, however there are many games from that era that managed to look better, see Chrono Trigger, where characters actually move and attack and battles follow a choreography
It's fun when you have tons of unlockable skills, passives, complex buffs and ailments, specializations, and if enemies can wreck your shit if you don't plan well. Also if you can create your own party and aren't stuck with characters you don't give a shit about.
>>284181843 I wouldn't call it god tier but damn the battles were satisfying. Just ordering "Beat the crap out of everyone" and watching how your treeps let hell loose was super cool. Shame about that shitty anti-grind system, still baffles me to this day. Made one bossfight unbeatable for me 10 hours in, haven't played since >>284181905 are you retarded? I even listed examples I'm talking about animation and visuals
>>284181476 I'm thinking there'd be one encounter per room and those encounters would be substantial enough that you couldn't just mash attack with your eyes closed. Or maybe the boss would roam around the dungeon and you'd have to track him? Anything but mindlessly easy encounters. They just pad the game out and make older rpgs impossible to play without an emulator. SMT games sort of mitigate this by giving massive advantages to hitting the weak points of enemies, or enemies hitting your weak points, but I feel like smt becomes kind of rock paper scissors-ish. Plus, it makes getting the first hit even more important, to the point where the majority of combat is decided by the finicky attack you have in the dungeon itself. I've died more than once in smt4 or persona 4 because I couldn't finagle my character in the right position and went 2nd with half my party KO's because the enemy randomly used the right attack on the right character.
>>284181925 Well some WRPGs give you more dialogue when you talk to people more than once, but if you're playing a wrpg where stats and perks/feats don't give unique dialogue then you're playing the wrong games.
>>284182232 Not him but yes. Altho I wouldn't say buffs/debuffs are complex as they are pretty straight forward, it's more amount managing the limits (and a few endgame bosses have nasty counter moves they automatically use if you have a certain amount of positive effects going on in your party).
>>284182113 That dosnt mean shit. The best are when the character is literally a piece of wood(basically 99% of jrpgs) and dosnt do jack shit to even to dodge the fucking attack. It leaves me like pic related (I know its how the system works,but its fucking stupid today).
>>284182232 Large skill trees no cookie-cutter builds. Spiced up by the option to pick a sub-class. Enemies wreck your hard if you are not prepared. Status ailments work on bosses with low duration and progressively lower chances to land them which ultimately opens more options for you. This game has no almost no story. It's pure turn-based gameplay and it delievers as such.
>>284182634 Still better than : >go defeat the boss that deals 350 "dmg" and needs 3 turns to attack you with his megashit oneshoot attack then >go defeat the boss that deals 450"dmg" and needs 2 turns to attack you with his megashit oneshoot attack
>>284178073 action commands really help make turn based combat a little more exciting. also being able to do something when an enemy attacks and not just blindly take a hit is also good. seriously we need more action commands in jrpgs
Most RPGs that give the player freedom to move around in combat just end up as spam fests. If you want combat that allows for a lot of different spells, items and other commands, then turn-based battles are the best environment for that. Anything where you have to constantly be moving around inevitably de-emphasises anything that can require pauses for thought.
>Pic related >Using your AOE spells would end normal battle instantly >Using your AOE spells did more damage than anything else in a boss fight >Implying it wasn't 'Spam strongest AOE spell to win: The Game'
>>284176163 Okay lemme try Breath of Fire- oops No wait Suikoden- oops No wait Golden Sun- oops No wait Dragon Quest- oops No wait Lunar- oops No wait Lufia- oops No wait SMT- oops No wait Etrian Odyssey- oops
>>284176367 >SMT >fast Top kekkins Maybe if the only other game you've played is FF9
Recently played Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga. Are there any other turn based games like it that aren't other M&L games ? Really loved the manual dodging and how there was a fuck ton of different attacks, so the game always felt fresh due to not seeing the same attack enough times to master dodging it, even if it wasn't really challenging
>>284182545 I still don't understand what you're trying to say So you DON'T like it when characters barely even move are are animated in RPGs? Because thats exactly what I'm saying. The gameplay can be as generic as can be, I still want battles to look authentic and fun
>>284182739 I dislike Diablo skill tree in a real RPG. Your characters suck at low level because your skills require 20 levels before they become good. In the end you have a few token dps skills that you spam turn after turn. I prefer options. If it's a wizard then he should know all the elemental spells at least up to mid level.
They make a mountain size of difference in player experience though unless you are a gamist purist which most JRPG do not fall into this category. Sometimes your choices may affect how matters unfold rather than a few different lines from NPC.
>>284190683 Considering Neptunia, Agarest and the FF games are actually selling well on Steam I think it's far from dying, I even believe their willingness to port to PC and the realization that there is an almost untapped market here will breath new life into it.
>>284183296 For the nth time: prehistoric dungeon crawlers made when the medium was at its baby state do not define the criteria for RPG. Even more so jrpg branching out from them moved even further away from roleplaying, becoming rigid story adventures instead.
>>284175673 I'd rather have that then that gimmicky action shit like in Tales or the new Final Fantasy games. If you're gonna do it half assed, I'll just go play Bayonetta or DMC to get my fill of action games.
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