>chance to ignite, causing the target to burn over time
>chance to freeze
>chance to arc to nearby enemies
>Armor Piercing rounds do more damage to armored vehicles than normal bullets
>But they deal less damage to infantry
>AP does less damage to infantry
That's fucking stupid.
AP should be more effective vs armor, but not more ineffective vs unarmored targets.
That's why you have Anti-Personnel or hollow point or something.
I've always found the "elemental" damage thing a little retarded myself. Getting hit with a giant ice or earth spear would cause the same kind of physical, possibly piercing damage. And then you get pokemon levels of retarded, and things like "light" and "dark" damage.
RPGs should have a table with different columns, such as:
>piercing, blunt, slashing, explosive, neurological
>bodily, electric, burning, corrosive
>biological, chemical, nuclear
And then you'd mix and match the three columns to create different kinds of actual damage.
>burn damage dealt in increments
>has knockback effect every time it takes a chunk of your health
I always thought it should have been:
Physical type damage:
Slashing, Blunt, Piercing, Bullet, Explosion
Elemental type damage:
Fire, Ice, Electricity, Water, Air, Earth, maybe Holy and Dark too
Miscellaneous type damage:
Poison, Sound, Psychic
>elemental dakka being the extent of a "magic" system
What is even the goddamned point? It's sad when devs can't be creative for two seconds and just copypaste the same old elemental bullshit in every game.
I would kill for a game that included only ritual magic/divination/spacetime magic, and if you wanted to kill someone you would just shoot or stab them like everyone else.
If all your magic does is damage or stupid little status effects, it doesn't deserve to be called magic.
Ilike the Idea of fire having a dual efect, the flash burning and the temperature rise. If for example, you were wearing little armor, a fireball would do great instant damage and possibly ignite you, whereas if you were wearing full armor, the flash burn effect will be minuscule, but if your temp rises high enough, you start to cook inside your armour
Also water spells should be pretty useless for damaging, but alter the effectiveness of Fire (lowering temp and chance of ignition), Ice (higher chance to freeze) lightning (extra chance of arc hitting you) ,earth (eroding earth), Ilussion (breaking them), and so on
Spoken like someone who has never been on the wrong end of a fire hose. Also, you know that they make saws that fire jets of highly pressurized water that can cut through steel, right? Now imagine that water has a supernatural power source.
In order for water to have its amazing cutter effect, it needs a lot of pressure and be really close to the target. It could work if you were using water as a close quarter melee water saw weapon, but that would be a high level spells, while low level water spells would just be showering them in water
Nigger it's magic. The rules and limitations of technology don't apply.
>but that would be a high level spells
Who are you to designate power levels in a fantasy realm?
If that's a high level water spell, then so are fireballs and lightning storms. Low level fire magic would be lighting somebody's cigarette. Low level electric spells will let you charge your iPhone.
>it needs a lot of pressure and be really close to the target
What if it could retain it's high velocity (pressure) over longer distance by some supernatural means. Magic perhaps?
>chance to become fat and stupid
>Blah blah, you summon water from water plane, lot of water coming through a small place, huge pressure, lot of damages.
Like the wizard's penis mayhaps? The spell basically links the caster's bladder with the elemental plane of water and he just "let it go" when in need.
Now thats another entirely differen branch of Magic. Water spells draw water from the atmosphere, making you powerful in areas with high humidity and weak in areas with low humidity.
That's how it works in D&D or some other PnP RPGs. It's not summoning in the same sense as summoning a deity, that's just where magic comes from, the elemental planes.
Also, you're retarded. The rules for magic aren't set in stone. And if they were, water would blast the stone into oblivion.
Warframe, but while there's 3 + 4 + 6 different types of procs, they are almost all worthless.
Yeah but I think it is pretty stupid to have all the elements "balanced" in damage. Why would there be need for so many different kinds of magic if their sole purpose is damage and destruction? Elemental resistances? yeah, Temperature resistance and weakness, that makes sense, but saying someone is weak to wind, water or earth is stupid, unless they were some kind of golem
Who said they had to be balanced in damage? They just need to be balanced in terms of damage and utility.
And what are elemental resistances? If we're saying water mages can cut steel with streams of water than that's piercing damage, or throwing a clod of earth at somebody that's bludgeoning or crushing damage. Context is very important and we have none right now, all we're doing is venturing into the realm of possibilities.
If any game has any semblance of balance between elemental magics though, I believe it's Guild Wars. As far as magic used purely for combat purposes, every elemental type has strengths, weaknesses, and niche uses.
Every time I read an argument like "lol its FANTASY ANYTHING CAN HAPPIN" I feel like kicking people in the neck.
There's realism, fantasy, and then there's consistency. By all means have unconventional aspects in gameplay and storytelling, but there must be consistency
That's like Scorpion suddenly having ice attacks in Mortal Kombat. Plebs can say "wtf its just a game its fantastical its not real" but I know you fucking idiots are smarter than that
That's true, but OP is whining over the consistency.
What the fuck is inconsistent about fire damage burning, ice freezing shit, and lightning damage arcing?
Jesus fuck, not even you can be this stupid.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anything, I'm stating my opinion.
If you said water is weak, I disagree with that because of reasons stated before. Pressurized bolts, drowning, etc.
If you are stating that magical sources of damage need to be balanced, I agree because they should all function differently and have varying degrees of utility.
Usually AP is reserved for armour-piercing. Anti-personnel rounds get their own name based on the tech behind it, since meat getting shot with any kind of round is gonna get fucked up anyways.
Good for you then. Also I never said water was useless. Far from it, they should easily disable an enemy caster's fire spells, while enhancing their lightning or ice effect.
I'm sorry for posting so much about this elemental magic topic, but this was one of the things I spent a lot of time thinking about, and which I plan on implementing on the chance I beome a game developer
I could deal with status effects being more realistic. Burns hurt you when you move, so big physical attacks cause more damage to you than, say, using magic or an item. Poison gives you a small window to heal with no issues, and then your health starts to drop precipitously. Etc.
I'd love to see HP/MP replaced with a WillPower system, where you basically gamble your willingness to fight. Big attacks take a lot but when you connect your rising morale restores your WP, for example. Taking big hits but then countering would be give you a bonus. Stuff like that.
I never said you said water was useless. I never said you said it was anything. I was stating that if you called it weak (in the context of dealing damage) then I disagree.
If you do happen to make a game where water is only useful as a means to negate or enhance other magical effects, that could be interesting as support, but don't neglect that water is powerful in it's own right as a source of damage.
>on Tuesdays, when your HP is between 20% and 30% but is higher than your total MP, increase chance of critical hits that leave a 4.37 second burn dealing 2.9% max HP with a Knife-type weapon on Dragonoid targets between 7AM and 12PM
ugh, of course not. Obviously you are a dead warrior whose soul was driven away from the psychopomps, mixing it with the chaos essence and giving you respawning inmortality, for you to become a new fighter in the fight between the Free souls and the Hell and Heaven dominion. Your Magic is one of the arts thats been passed down from creator to creation for generations, but you just cant have an unrelenting firestorm without having mastery of the small spark
Origin is the substance that created it? What's "it"? The origin is the substance that created the source?
Can you give me an example for a sword (slash), a fireball, and a bite attack from a tiger, please?
Because usually how it's broken down in a game, it's very simple. You have Sword (slashing). You don't care that the sword is made of metal, you just care about the damage range on the sword and the damage type.
I'm sorry, I'm just trying to understand, but I do think you have a great big mess on your hands.
Shit that grinds my gears:
>increasing poison damage while also increasing poison duration
>Lightning Bolt damage: 1 - 10000
>spells in games aren't based on any percentage of weapon damage and require you to equip shitty +1 to SPELL gear once you've slapped 10 points into them
The poison damage one really pisses me off. IN grim dawn there's a skill which increases damage by 8% and length by 14%. That completely fucking negates the increased damage. I don't give a fuck if it does more damage overall if the damage per tick is so fucking low, this is a hack and slash, shit aint living long enough for that to matter.
I HATE LIGHTNING DAMAGE LIKE THAT SO FUCKING MUCH HOLY SHIT
I also hate "random" style lightning damage; where it just shoots out in random directions. No. This shit literally seeks out stuff to ground itself on.
I always preferred Ico's magic system.
>Dark magic summons shadow figures or turns the souls of the dead into them
>Light magic seals and protects, light can seal dark magic into things (see SOTC)
Both are epic ritual type magic that don't allow enemies to pull shit out of their ass
The right way would be having duration increases just maintain the same damage per tick, but damage can go out of control really quickly if you pump a decent number of points into poison-related skills.
The better way is also having cumulative effects on stuff liko poison and such. Getting half a drop of poison through your foot isn't the same as having the venom injected by a giant snake, nor is it the same as inhaling toxic fumes. The longer you are exposed to the substance, the harder it hits and longer it lasts.
how the fuck does earth magic even work? does it give you the ability to rip a chunk of earth out and throw it? It would qualify as a shitty spinoff of telekinesis then, which only controlls earth.
>Grass pokemon uses "Stun Spore" powder attack
>Electrical effect plays when paralyzed
>increasing poison damage doesn't mean an increase of damage per second
It certainly can.
5 damage per second over 20 seconds
20 damage per second over 5 seconds
Both deal the same amount of damage, and you can increase damage by increasing either variable, damage per tick/second or the duration.
How does fire magic even work? You're just exciting particles around an oxidizer. Anybody who can manipulate matter can excite particles!
So what if you're shot with the freezing beam from Crysis?
in my hypothetical game, Earth spells are control over the terrain, such as creating walls, barriers, trenches and sinkholes, among the standard earth throw and earthquake. Also, the ability to burrow and pull enemies underground.
I'm sure the poster that brought it up said fights ended so quickly the increase barely mattered
Depending on the scope of earth magic, you can quickly erode rocks and conjure a sandstorm to blind people or cause harmful abrasions to unprotected skin, create large pits to trap people, throw heavy rocks to crush people, throw long pointy rocks to stab people, give yourself an armor made of solid rock while still manipulating it so you can be mobile, purify large quantities of minerals, aid in other things like digging graves for your enemies that you killed and then irrigate the land so you can grow fucking trees out of their corpses with the nutrient rich land.
Nigga do you even ARPG? Poison doesn't work like that.
It's 20 damage over 5 seconds
or following the "buff" 22 damage over 6
Which makes it worse because it's only dealing 3.7 damage per second instead of 4 pre buff.
>I'm sure the poster that brought it up said fights ended so quickly the increase barely mattered
Yes, I was not replying to him though.
The increase in duration in his context is useless but the increase in damage per second would be helpful.
this is the kind of fucking circlejerking that brings this board down. A random /v/ lurker, who in all likelihood has no intimate knowledge of what it takes to create a game, spouts out an idea he formulated in 2 minutes while he typed the post, and one of you morons is stupid and reactionary enough to agree with him and decry the work of the entire industry because fuck them.
>fire spell always strong enough to knock someone down
>Ice spell steals mana and does slow
>lightning spell arcs off to other enemies
Alchemyblinds enemies and cancels aggro
>chance to ignite, causing the target to panic, penalty to accuracy, penalty to dodge
>chance to slow, penalties to attack, movement speed, dodge
>I'll admit, basically the same as fire damage, bonus damage to mechanical/metal armored enemies
>he said it
>I hate to make the joke
let it go, let it goooo
Can't hold it back anymoreeee
let it go, let it go,
tap that water plane,
ect. ect. ect.
Le tthe storm rage on,
I really had to piss anyway
>chance to ignite the enemy's soul and give him a sheer willpower boost of flaming bravery, increasing his attack
>chance to chill down the enemy's emotions, letting him think more rationally, increasing his intellect
>chance to fill him with energy and stimulate his muscles and nervous system, improving his reaction speed, increasing his agility
>over penetration is a bad thing
Are you implying a round that shatters bones is a bad thing? How do you tourniquet a fucking hole through your body? Hollow point doesn't have the stopping power against someone doped up on cocaine.
Oh trust, fire magic is the least cost effect
If you keep spamming it you will run out of MP unless it's nighttime and you're walking around with meditation (But you'd be up shit creek without stamina)
Also spells have different charge time
Ice is quicker than lightning which is quicker than fire.
Mabinogi is a fun game like that.
They're just meant to wound though.
There's a reason you can buy hollow point in a store but not AP. Hell there is a ban being proposed by BATFE for AP rounds.
Hollow point still leaves the structural integrity of the body (it's a lot easier to stand on a sliced up kidney if you're higher than a kite, than it would be on a broken rib).
Well, naturally, but you can just chug down potions to get it back.
Chug too much and you get potion poisoning which makes you lose stats depending on the potion you drank. Drink too much Mana pots and you lose int!
>Lower damage but ignores armor
>Higher damage, poor against armor
>Good against armor, sometimes? Medium damage I guess
>Fuck man, I just don't know
Not that guy, but I'll take your word for it seeing as according to this poll the fanbase is about muh immersion and there's actually people who want a cinematic experience.
>Bullets are just meant to wound
Hollow points are meant to kill unarmored targets stone fucking dead as fast as possible. Maximum organ damage with minimum overpenetration.
The reason you can't buy AP is because you're implying you want to shoot armored targets, i.e. cops.