What are some games that are actually mature? I don't mean games that are rated M or are unsuitable for children, I mean games that handle themes that have depth in them with sincerity.
>tfw can't run from grim reality forever
>that handle themes that have depth in them with sincerity.
Why does this make them mature?
In my opinion a mature game is one that is designed to meet professional standards and turn a profit. Those are actual real-world adult concerns. Once you graduate college (or high school) you'll learn this.
>Why does this make them mature?
Because pic related
>I mean games that handle themes that have depth in them with sincerity
There's no money in that.
Well it depends on the scope of budget, if you sink $80 Million into a game, you gotta just appeal to the lowest common denominator or lose money, but smaller budget games can get away with it, sure they could just make the current trend and rake money but that is up to the developer/publisher
Friendly reminder that a capitalist market intrinsically starves and hinders creativity since it demands that a mainstream work be compromised if it should wish to see the light of day, meaning that mainstream titles must often sacrifice depth for breadth
I'm a little curious as to whether you people think "mature themes" means "dark and threatening themes."
Romance is a mature theme. Finding a job is a mature theme. Raising a child is a mature theme. None of those things are "easy" but they don't have to be dark and threatening either.
The Fall is pretty good science fiction stuff about autonomy and morality.
Capitalism encourages creativity by providing an incentive (profit) to produce creative works. "Sacrificing depth for breadth" is just a form of compromise that arises from the imperfections of the system. Unfortunately it's immature to look at this and say "capitalism stifles creativity because the world isn't perfect and I can't make literally whatever I want and have it sell," rather than accepting the downsides with the upsides and trying to improve a system that already works reasonably well.
And honestly, demanding that other people accept your "creativity" rather than acknowledging that others have different interests and working to express yourself in a way that appeals to them (or simply ignoring them and accepting a lack of profit, which capitalism doesn't prohibit) is childish.
While true, I'd have a hard time calling Harvest Moon or Rune Factory a mature game just because it involves work and a family. Animal Crossing is probably not mature even though it involves chores. Recettear wouldn't be mature just because you manage a shop and sell items. Trying to call these things mature simply because they deal with subjects that adults deal with falls into the same trap as calling Call of Duty mature because it deals with a subject that is typically restricted to adults - war.
And as Call of Duty has shown us, just because it is a topic which only adults deal with in the real world, does not mean that it can't be turned into a silly and immature game.
The reason I named Professor Layton was because it does touch on and handle some very mature themes at times. I'm talking specifically about Claire from Unwound Future or course, although even something simpler such as Flora and her missing family touches on it. Sure, it isn't something that the games even focus on very much, but it's enough to make them memorable and more significant than even full games which try to focus themselves on more generic, stereotypical situations.
Silent Hill 1-3
Max Payne 1 and 2
Legacy of Kain
I think you're on the right track, with the 'mature themes don't make for mature games'.
I even think that the 'maturity' of a game has NOTHING to do with it's themes. It's the way the themes are handled that is mature. The game needs to display a (for lack of a better word in my vocabulary) 'wholesome' understanding of, and perspective on, its themes.
Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines
Despite some of the sillier shit the game will occasionally throw at you make no mistake, this is one of a small handful of games I can think of that throws you into some more genuinely adult shit in a way that I think it'd drive off any younger kids trying to play it. Yeah there's the sexy side of the game, but that's literally just jeanette and velvet velour who are respectively, two small areas in a pretty big game.
There are some pretty serious moral decisions and implications of the things going on and fucked up stuff that extends beyond gore, picture related and when Heather Poe trying to give you the check for her college tuition really drive home that there are consequences behind your actions that you haven't even thought about that can come back to rear their ugly head.
There's also the pretty obvious stuff like whether or not you should try to cling to your humanity and upholding the masquerade being not just roleplaying elements but also tied into the gameplay, but the above stuff is probably the only time I've had a feeling like that in an RPG.
I think Kojima makes an honest effort, but he just hasn't got the chops to make a truly mature game.
I think he succeeds. Whilst the narratives he creates are quite outlandish and flashy, he quite extensively explores plenty of questions and ideas within these silly little stories. Too many people get too hung up on the lore of the series, which is one reason MGS4 is what it is.
I thought Persona 3 did well at supporting its core themes and using gameplay mechanics to justify its story being told in a game instead of any other format.
>he quite extensively explores plenty of questions and ideas
Yes, that's the 'honest effort' part I was talking about. It's leagues above 90% of games out there, but I just don't put it on the same level as Silent Hill 2, or Pathologic.
After deciding to have werewolves dancing at then end, I saw my real ending and watched my character give the finger like an edge lord to one of the crew members and classified this game as silly. I liked the game but never went all up in arms about it. Even that one mansion that everyone thinks is spooky was kind of a bored and pure of cliches.
Darkness Within: In Pursuit of Loath Nolder
You're a detective who investigates the murder of an aloof airline company co-owner Clark Field, the prime suspect is an eccentric private investigator, the titular Loath Nolder, who vanished from the hospital. The game has a palpable atmosphere, apt voice-acting, novel story (albeit most portion is deduced from text,) beautiful scenery, and outstanding use of lighting.
Snatcher, Warcraft III.
Catherine is about the only game I've seen that deals with relationships in anything resembling a meaningful way.
LISA forces you to make some seriously difficult choices, quite unlike anything else I've ever played. It has some shitty teenage boy humour, but I like to think that it was included as part of the world building.
That's theoretical capitalism.
Capitalism used to promote creativity, that kind of stopped when money became the best way to make more money.
Please list some Fortune 500 companies that are doing anything 'creative'.